[Josy]

This program is on Channel 4 at the moment.

In October 2012, the coalition introduced a new stricter sanctions regime. Benefits can now be suspended for up to three years– or reduced indefinitely for people claiming Employment and Support Allowance.
Channel 4 Dispatches has investigated how the stricter sanctions regime affects some vulnerable claimants and has interviewed former Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) staff who claim that there are targets for sanctions despite the government’s constant assurances that there are no targets.
New exclusive figures:
•Latest figures show 93,000 children were affected by sanctions over 12 months.[1](opens in a new window) The DWP told us they do not recognise these figures.
•Of DWP ‘peer reviews’ of 49 deaths following sanctions or when claimants had their benefit cut, 40 were carried out following a suicide or apparent suicide.

They were talking to Jobcentre workers who actually got suspended from work for not sanctioning enough jobseeker claimants, they have a target of sanctioning 80% of people claiming..

The DWP have also been ordering jobcentre employees to give out unrealistic targets to claimants knowing there is no way they can do what's being asked.

Opinions


My opinion is that it's completely disgraceful.

I know they are trying to get as much people into employment as possible but these actions are just another case of making the most vulnerable suffer.

And also these have been proven so I want to know what's going to be done about it.

[Ninastar]

Good. Far too many people live off of the government when they could easily get a job and work for themselves. Makes a real mockery of the people who do genuinely need help.

[Josy]

Originally Posted by Chaos

Good. Far too many people live off of the government when they could easily get a job and work for themselves. Makes a real mockery of the people who do genuinely need help.

Umm most of these people are the ones that genuinely need help.

It's not about people not wanting to work, the show is about bully tactics of the DWP, handing out unrealistic targets to people with prior knowledge that they can't carry them out therefore the DWP can then sanction their money.

This is affecting people that already struggle to live day to day with the pittance they receive on benefits.

[smudgie]

Targets..how the hell can you have targets like that.
Different areas have higher levels of unemployment to start with.
I am all for sorting the scroungers out, but this goes way beyond stupidity.

[Josy]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Targets..how the hell can you have targets like that.
Different areas have higher levels of unemployment to start with.
I am all for sorting the scroungers out, but this goes way beyond stupidity.

Totally agree smudge.

[Ninastar]

Originally Posted by Josy

Umm most of these people are the ones that genuinely need help.

It's not about people not wanting to work, the show is about bully tactics of the DWP, handing out unrealistic targets to people with prior knowledge that they can't carry them out therefore the DWP can then sanction their money.

This is affecting people that already struggle to live day to day with the pittance they receive on benefits.

pardon me for not reading the thread... I thought it meant the general crackdown on benefits (which is needed), but yeah, I basically meant what Smudgie said without using the term scroungers.

[JoshBB]

living standards have really gone down since the coalition took power, we better hope that it's not the tories next time.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Targets..how the hell can you have targets like that.
Different areas have higher levels of unemployment to start with.
I am all for sorting the scroungers out, but this goes way beyond stupidity.

Its never been about sorting the scroungers out, its been about punishing the poor for being poor and finding a headline grabber to keep people from talking about the real problems in this country. Its a ****ing disgrace. I remember posting on here once about a friend (not sure if I posted on here or DS) who was sanctioned for taking her kid to hospital and missing a jobcentre appointment, even though she rang them as soon as was possible to let them know what had happened.

Sanction targets are a disgrace. How can you set a target when the sanction is supposed to only apply to people who are taking the piss?

[Kizzy]

It's looking to me less and less like reform and more like a cull.
It would be interesting to see how these changes have impacted on infant mortality rates.

[joeysteele]

Good post Josy and sadly this goes on all the time.
The whole set up is a disgrace and needs a massive change as to attitude.

This all stems from the totally vindictive and heartless aims of one Ian Duncan Smith, that man cannot be believed as to anything he says.
Whenever he gets interviewed, it is like an old pals act with the interviewer, he is never pressed on the dismissive line he takes as to all criticism of sanctions, wrongful removal or rejection of claims for legitimate benefits.

Aided in his aim of pure spite by this useless PM and the whole of this coalitiong govt;.it is only now a few months before the election that the Lib Dems are moaning at things they supported in parliament.

Of course. root out scroungers, and wrongful claims, however in doing so if the people that get hit the worst are those doing right and with genuine need as is happening accroding to that article and under direction to happen too,then that policy,plans and targets are totally 100% wrong.
It is totally indefensible and the sooner change comes as to the issue the better.

[Firewire]

too many lazy bastards in this country

[Firewire]

that was half a joke

[Jamesy]

I've known about these targets for a while. I've actually spotted paperwork in the Jobcentre a few times that mentions Workcoach (the advisors/people who deal with claimants) targets... I think it's disgusting really. They used to have a three strikes and you're sanctioned system too, for people who turn up late or do other minor things, recently I've heard they just skip that and sanction you outright.

I'm on Jobseekers at the moment. It's funny at times when I sit in there waiting to be seen and listen to all the conversations around. It's constant threats here, threats there, threats everywhere . I've had it done to myself, I was going to be put on a 4 week classroom based course about hospitality (no qualifications or certificates gained out of it), it's not an industry I'm particularly interested in and even so I worked in hospitality a few years ago so I have experience.. so I said I'm not interested in doing it and all I got back was "if you don't do this you're not doing what I recommend you to get back into work therefore you will be sanctioned as you must do what I recommend". I was going to say well if it's a recommendation then I don't have to do it at all and you're threatening me, although I didn't bother saying anything back. Just a simple yes put me on it, it sounds great and an amazing opportunity (don't think they can sanction me for sarcasm). I'm out of that course now as instead they've put me on 8 week slave labour, oops, "voluntary work".

I assume, like many others, you just nod and say yes to everything and never argue because when unemployed and struggling to live that £57 a week is desperately needed.

I've spoken to a few people who are starting to get their phones out at appointments and recording the conversations they have. I'm considering it myself, as I am actually worried with how the more I'm there the ruder I am spoken to.

The Jobcentre needs a massive revamp. All I've had and see other people have is threats, I'm not a lazy person and have genuinely struggled to find work since graduating from uni, although I am treated like scum and honestly I feel worse and worse each time I go there.

I agree with crackdowns on the people who do nothing and do live off the state, although new systems need to be placed to sift through these people. Generally you can spot these people a mile off. I guess when the government cannot be arsed to created an organised system they just move to the cheap alternative, threaten and bully.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Jamesy

I've known about these targets for a while. I've actually spotted paperwork in the Jobcentre a few times that mentions Workcoach (the advisors/people who deal with claimants) targets... I think it's disgusting really. They used to have a three strikes and you're sanctioned system too, for people who turn up late or do other minor things, recently I've heard they just skip that and sanction you outright.

I'm on Jobseekers at the moment. It's funny at times when I sit in there waiting to be seen and listen to all the conversations around. It's constant threats here, threats there, threats everywhere . I've had it done to myself, I was going to be put on a 4 week classroom based course about hospitality (no qualifications or certificates gained out of it), it's not an industry I'm particularly interested in and even so I worked in hospitality a few years ago so I have experience.. so I said I'm not interested in doing it and all I got back was "if you don't do this you're not doing what I recommend you to get back into work therefore you will be sanctioned as you must do what I recommend". I was going to say well if it's a recommendation then I don't have to do it at all and you're threatening me, although I didn't bother saying anything back. Just a simple yes put me on it, it sounds great and an amazing opportunity (don't think they can sanction me for sarcasm). I'm out of that course now as instead they've put me on 8 week slave labour, oops, "voluntary work".

I assume, like many others, you just nod and say yes to everything and never argue because when unemployed and struggling to live that £57 a week is desperately needed.

I've spoken to a few people who are starting to get their phones out at appointments and recording the conversations they have. I'm considering it myself, as I am actually worried with how the more I'm there the ruder I am spoken to.

The Jobcentre needs a massive revamp. All I've had and see other people have is threats, I'm not a lazy person and have genuinely struggled to find work since graduating from uni, although I am treated like scum and honestly I feel worse and worse each time I go there.

I agree with crackdowns on the people who do nothing and do live off the state, although new systems need to be placed to sift through these people. Generally you can spot these people a mile off. I guess when the government cannot be arsed to created an organised system they just move to the cheap alternative, threaten and bully.

This reads like a horror story but it is what I have come across helping others who have had sanctions, 'wrongly I may add', placed on them.

Really sorry you are having such a hard time,I hope things look up for you soon.

Shocking this even goes on in the UK at all,even worse that it is allowed to.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Its never been about sorting the scroungers out, its been about punishing the poor for being poor and finding a headline grabber to keep people from talking about the real problems in this country. Its a ****ing disgrace. I remember posting on here once about a friend (not sure if I posted on here or DS) who was sanctioned for taking her kid to hospital and missing a jobcentre appointment, even though she rang them as soon as was possible to let them know what had happened.

Sanction targets are a disgrace. How can you set a target when the sanction is supposed to only apply to people who are taking the piss?

Agree.Tarring everybody with the same brush is wrong.Many people are genuine jobseekers and don't want to live off the state and already feel bad enough for claiming.I felt like crap when i claimed for a few months a few years ago and those jc staff look at you like some kind of scumbag.Targets should not be involved when trying to help people into work,Specially when there are so few jobs around for us Brits anyway.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Josy

Umm most of these people are the ones that genuinely need help.

It's not about people not wanting to work, the show is about bully tactics of the DWP, handing out unrealistic targets to people with prior knowledge that they can't carry them out therefore the DWP can then sanction their money.

This is affecting people that already struggle to live day to day with the pittance they receive on benefits.

pls give us 1 or 2 examples without giving names of disbled or truly sick people who have had their benefits taken or cut....Id genuinely like to know if this is happenning

[the truth]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Targets..how the hell can you have targets like that.
Different areas have higher levels of unemployment to start with.
I am all for sorting the scroungers out, but this goes way beyond stupidity.

Good point

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

pls give us 1 or 2 examples without giving names of disbled or truly sick people who have had their benefits taken or cut....Id genuinely like to know if this is happenning

There have been numerous issues raised on political programmes as to this,people with cancer having their benefits reduced and being considered for some work as they only get chemotherapy every 10 days.

What do you think all the appeals are that have been through the courts as to the sick and disabled having benefits cut or taken away, not being put in the support group of ESA but instead being placed in the work related activity group,(wrag), on a lesser benefit rate.

Charities and welfare groups and even social workers have had to help the sick and disabled even as far as court, to get the DWPs decisions overturned.
9 times out of 10 those appeals are won by the claimant too.

I got involved in many cases,not dealing with them myself but with the law firm I was with, this govt; has made the appeals process harder.
They have allowed to close, many of the welfare organisations that help these people, even the CAB has has to trim down and they are swamped with the loss of benefits problems as well as the obscene bedroom tax among all the other issues people go to them with.

If more people got out there and saw the massive stress caused to genuinely sick and disabled claimants,stress they should not be having at all.
Then it would soon become apparant how heartless and rotten this govts; reforms as to welfare have been and how they have hit the wrong claimants all the time.

Also,I am currently helping with a claim for PIP, the replacement for DLA, the claimant who has dementia, had a claim put in 6 months ago, they are still waiting to even hear if they are going to get it,as there is a backlog having to be dealt with.
That is disgusting to have to wait so long just for a decision.

Of course you won't find this prominant,if at all, in the press,they can only,if they do report it, put in in tiny sections somewhere in the middle pages, however if they find one scrounger then that will be all over the front pages.
Then people actually take on board that must be the norm as to benefit claimants,rather than find out the real facts.

I can tell you of another instance, someone told they couldn't claim ESA because they were too fit,then told they should claim jobseekers, they claimed jobseekers and were told they weren't fit enough to claim jobseekers and need to claim ESA, this went on for months before they finaly got something other than an emergency payment to tide them over.

This govt; has been told time and time again by charities,welfare groups and the CAB, as to the problems and distress caused to the sick and disabled by the changes to benefits.
It is dismissed, just like all things by this govt:
A rotten cruel govt; that has developed such a heartless arrogance, it doesn't even likely even look at what's going on.

It has lost appeal after appeal for years as to the loss of benefits to claimants.
Try to talk to some charities and welfare groups, they should be able to outline the problems the sick and disabled are having as to benefits problems.

That is what I did,and I was stunned at what I learned.
Then through my work,I was able to, in part,help and advise the sick and disabled to get their benefits fully restored again after being wrongly taken away from them.
Leaving me appalled that any genuine and sick person had to end up in court,with all the anxiety and distress that can cause, to fight to get their due entitlements under the law.

As Josy's excellent point and opening post to this thread states,this has been ongoing under new policy guidelines since 2012, under this rotten shower, no one else for these points.

It is another reason why for me anyway, this arrogant, smug,ignorant heartless shower get turfed out in May.
They dismiss everything and listen to no one, not about the weakest and most vulnerable.

Look at their attitude on food banks.
They always just argue use of food banks went up by over 10 times under Labour in 13 years.
It did from around 4,000 using them to over 40,000.
They then argue again,up to a year ago, that it had risen by again 10 times under the coalition, as if that is a justification.

Rising from 4,000 to over 40,000 is nothing like rising from 40,000 to over 400,000 and I understand it is estimated that the figure is more like half a million now.
More evidence of this govts; arrogance and dismissiveness to all things concerning the most vulnerable.

[Vanessa]

When i was on benefits i had mine cut for a week for missing an appointment. Granted that was my fault. I messed up the dates.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

When i was on benefits i had mine cut for a week for missing an appointment. Granted that was my fault. I messed up the dates.

Vanessa,it is easy to get dates mixed up, they will pounce in an instant as to that but I come across people who have been told to attend an interview at the jobcentre,when they have got there then being told no appointment is recorded for them that day and told to go home.

Also I know someone who was sanctioned for not going to a job interview the jobcentre had arranged for them at 11.30am on a particular day.
A day they had an interview themselves at 10am and another at 1.30pm some distance apart.
They told the jobcentre this but they said they must go to that interview too.

The first interview took until after 11 am, no way could they get to the 11.30am jobcentre arranged one.
They were then told they would be being sanctioned for not going to it.

As it turned out, they got the 1.30pm job they went for and were able to tell the jobcentre where to go.
It doesn't always end up with that good result however and as you point out, people can get sanctioned ridiculously.

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Vanessa,it is easy to get dates mixed up, they will pounce in an instant as to that but I come across people who have been told to attend an interview at the jobcentre,when they have got there then being told no appointment is recorded for them that day and told to go home.

Also I know someone who was sanctioned for not going to a job interview the jobcentre had arranged for them at 11.30am on a particular day.
A day they had an interview themselves at 10am and another at 1.30pm some distance apart.
They told the jobcentre this but they said they must go to that interview too.

The first interview took until after 11 am, no way could they get to the 11.30am jobcentre arranged one.
They were then told they would be being sanctioned for not going to it.

As it turned out, they got the 1.30pm job they went for and were able to tell the jobcentre where to go.
It doesn't always end up with that good result however and as you point out, people can get sanctioned ridiculously.

OMG They were so lucky they got the job.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Vanessa

OMG They were so lucky they got the job.

Very much so Vanessa.
It is shocking the way people are being treated,also the way the jobcentre staff, well some of them, speak to people too as was pointed by a poster above, is an absolute disgrace too.

[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Very much so Vanessa.
It is shocking the way people are being treated,also the way the jobcentre staff, well some of them, speak to people too as was pointed by a poster above, is an absolute disgrace too.

Yes, i agree. it's rare to find anyone helpful at the jobcentre. I was glad when i got my old job back.

[Glenn.]

When I signed on a few years ago I recieved a letter through the door informing me of an interview I had to attend. The date of the interview was that day's date at 2pm. It came through my letterbox at quarter to 2. Luckily enough I was able to phone and let them know what had happened to get it sorted but if I hadn't have opened it I would have missed the appointment and been sanctioned for it.

The hilarious part is when I went down after they rescheduled it, I was told I didn't have an appointment.

[Nedusa]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Its never been about sorting the scroungers out, its been about punishing the poor for being poor and finding a headline grabber to keep people from talking about the real problems in this country. Its a ****ing disgrace. I remember posting on here once about a friend (not sure if I posted on here or DS) who was sanctioned for taking her kid to hospital and missing a jobcentre appointment, even though she rang them as soon as was possible to let them know what had happened.

Sanction targets are a disgrace. How can you set a target when the sanction is supposed to only apply to people who are taking the piss?

Totally agree........ it looks like the Govt is simply inventing more and more ways to punish people who are unemployed. It really is disgraceful expecting these people to jump through hoops to claim benefit that they are fully entitled to.

It's as if the Govt doesn't want to pay anything out to anybody...

Well if you don't want to have a Welfare system........then don't have one, scrap the whole thing. Because to constantly make the system more and more onerous so people will either stop claiming completely or spend 40 hrs a week filling in the dam forms to claim a small pittance is just shameful.

Every week we hear about these new initiatives to try and ensure people are working really hard to find a job.. but to be honest people have paid taxes that fund these benefits and so in most cases especially with unemployment benefit are only getting back what they paid in so why are these people being virtually humiliated when trying to claim these benefits.