[the truth]

I applaud some of it, the limit on a house on benefits to £23000 is good, the freeze on vat and nat ins is good, 7 day nhs is a noble goal though Id focus on getting people scanned more too, the increased childcare is good

the bad is why freeze working tax credits? that's an own goal that will stop some getting off benefits to go to work..wheres the focus on banking and regulting corrupt corporations and energy companies, nothing on the hs2 fiasco,.also where are the plans for ensuring immigrants must pay into the pot for 4 or 5 years before qualifying for all benefits?





"An EU referendum by the end of 2017 is among a packed programme of new laws in the first Conservative Queen's Speech in nearly two decades.

It also includes more free childcare, an income tax freeze and the right-to-buy for housing association tenants.

David Cameron said the 26-bill package was a "programme for working people" that would create full employment and "bring our country together".

The measures were unveiled by the Queen amid the usual pomp and ceremony.

The proposed legislation includes:



◾A ban on income tax, VAT and national insurance increases for five years
◾A freeze on working age benefits, tax credits and child benefit for two years from 2016/17
◾30 hours free childcare a week for three and four-year-olds by 2017
◾Cutting the total amount one household can claim in benefits from £26,000 to £23,000
◾More devolution for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and "English votes for English laws" at Westminster
◾500 more free schools and more failing and "coasting" schools turned into Academies
◾A ban on so-called legal highs
◾A "truly seven day" NHS by 2020
◾Here is a bill-by-bill rundown of the full programme. Follow all the action and the reaction in text and video on Politics Live

[Toy Soldier]

Tell you the bit that confused me most...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the current threshold for paying any tax was already £10k, right? So... they've announced proundly that "no one working 30 hours per week or less on minimum wage will pay any income tax".

Now... if my maths is right... and it usually is... 30 (hours per week) x £6.50 (min wage) x 52 (weeks in the year) = £10140. SO what they have announced is that you won't be paying 20% tax on £140 a year. 20% x 140 / 12 (months) = ... £2.33

That's right folks. Low earners will be £2.33 a month better off! Yeee-eee-eeaaah, there's a party in the UUU-K.

I suppose maybe they're just promising that the threshold will increase in line with the minimum wage? .


As for the rest of it... meh? It's largely meaningless. Whether or not any of it will happen, and anything else that might happen, is really pot luck. All talk.

[Kizzy]

They can do what they want as long as they leave the human rights act alone.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

They can do what they want as long as they leave the human rights act alone.

That's nearly dead in the water, it isn't to be a bill any more, it is only a proposal.
Some Conservative MPs would have rebelled against it being ditched so they have had to think again,as they will on many policies.

I wait to see the real detail as each policy comes to parliament,I am beginning to hope that David Cameron has had a reality check and realised this is going to be much harder for him with a small overall majority than the last 5 years of coalition was.

He may actually end up getting very little of note through at all.

The EU is going to consume much of the next 2 years at least,he will have to hope he can do enough to win a 'yes' to staying in otherwise another rebellion could come there and a vote to leave the EU will likely tear the Conservative party apart.

As to VAT,I was disappointed not to see a firm guarantee not to extend it to things it is not on already.
The Conservative party always usually makes some changes to VAT,it would surprise me to see absolutely no extension of it during this next 5 years.

I will wait and see and hold fire on criticisms until I see more fine detail of the planned legislation.
This is also the time when Conservative MPs who are really decent and have a conscience find their voices too.
he cannot afford to have any sitting on their hands rather than voting for the govt. now.

[the truth]

I really hope labour find a proper leader soon, the embarrassing harriet haggard is so yesterdays bad news.....labour needs some real leadership class to ever emerge from the hell of new labour, we desperately need a credible opposition. simply stating cutting too fast all day long isn't enough. we need a labour party with policies on everything , including proactive pro business policies too...preferably small business

[Jamesy]

I'm against their plans for the human rights act although they need to debate it a lot before anything can be done. A lot of people in the conservative party oppose the idea of scrapping it for a new rights bill so I doubt that will get that far with it for now.

Also a "truly seven day" NHS sounds all good on paper although it mainly involves stretching current NHS resources which are already stretched to breaking point so really I'm against that until they start taking real action to expand resources and invest heavily into the NHS (I know they say they will invest more but I'll believe that when I see it). Although I can see more cuts, money being placed where it isn't needed to give the illusion to the public they're investing in the NHS, and some more backdoor privatization under peoples noses.

The limit on house benefit is good too. £26k a year was ridiculous in the first place, glad they've lowered it somewhat.

[Jamesy]

Agree with Labour leader too. The party is a mess. They need a very very strong leader that can build the party back to being organised and a strong opposition again the Tories and other parties.

Milliband was the main reason they under performed in the elections. He's a nice guy but wasn't fit as a leader.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Jamesy

I'm against their plans for the human rights act although they need to debate it a lot before anything can be done. A lot of people in the conservative party oppose the idea of scrapping it for a new rights bill so I doubt that will get that far with it for now.

Also a "truly seven day" NHS sounds all good on paper although it mainly involves stretching current NHS resources which are already stretched to breaking point so really I'm against that until they start taking real action to expand resources and invest heavily into the NHS (I know they say they will invest more but I'll believe that when I see it). Although I can see more cuts, money being placed where it isn't needed to give the illusion to the public they're investing in the NHS, and some more backdoor privatization under peoples noses.

The limit on house benefit is good too. £26k a year was ridiculous in the first place, glad they've lowered it somewhat.

Absolutely, I have an Uncle who is a GP and if he is going to be forced to provide 7 day cover,then he is off out of the UK,

His practice cannot cope as it is and he says this is headline grabbing, rather than a real solution.

I will take the GPs word on this over Mr Cameron's any day of the week and it seems, certainly for GP services,that most GPs are likely strongly against the idea.
I don't see how care can be improved by making those already stretched to the limit to have to do even more.

[the truth]

[QUOTE=Jamesy;7817358]I'm against their plans for the human rights act although they need to debate it a lot before anything can be done. A lot of people in the conservative party oppose the idea of scrapping it for a new rights bill so I doubt that will get that far with it for now.

Also a "truly seven day" NHS sounds all good on paper although it mainly involves stretching current NHS resources which are already stretched to breaking point so really I'm against that until they start taking real action to expand resources and invest heavily into the NHS (I know they say they will invest more but I'll believe that when I see it). - They've committed to 8 billion increase. But the majority of savings will be made in slashing middle management jobs and getting millions more people scanned out of hours and weekends which should save billions on the back end from saving months of bed blocking, unnecessary pills and anti biotics and freeing up staff time..oh and getting more scanned far sooner will save far more lives (which also gets people back to work paying taxes etc)



Although I can see more cuts, money being placed where it isn't needed to give the illusion to the public they're investing in the NHS, and some more backdoor privatization under peoples noses. - I don't think theyre that devious. the money will be channelled to the front line cutting the endless middle management..also in merging the trusts care with the social services care that alone will save money and time for elderly patientsThe limit on house benefit is good too. £26k a year was ridiculous in the first place, glad they've lowered it somewhat. - totally agreed on that. frankly £23000 is still way way too high...why should anyone get 23000 just for sitting on there backsides ..what a disgusting example to their kids too

[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Absolutely, I have an Uncle who is a GP and if he is going to be forced to provide 7 day cover,then he is off out of the UK,

His practice cannot cope as it is and he says this is headline grabbing, rather than a real solution.

I will take the GPs word on this over Mr Cameron's any day of the week and it seems, certainly for GP services,that most GPs are likely strongly against the idea.
I don't see how care can be improved by making those already stretched to the limit to have to do even more.

I strongly disagree...the staff rotas have been way too inflexible resulting in disgracefully high death rates at the weekend. where the majority of hospitals wont even scan people on the weekends for potentially life threatening stuff like blood clots....that's wrong and frankly I don't care about whata millionaire gp says, they get plenty of time off and make a fortune too...the nhs isn't about just the staff, ultimately its about the patients. getting millions scanned earlier will save the nhs an absolute fortune long term and saves millions of lives , gets people back to work....the nhs has need a better work rota for decades. its run like an ailing civil service. instead it must be a modern totally efficient caring compassionate 24/7 service in a massively populated nation that works 7 days a week....mortality rates should be the same across every day. to die simply because its a weekend is a farking travesty

[Jamesy]

Originally Posted by the truth

totally agreed on that. frankly £23000 is still way way too high...why should anyone get 23000 just for sitting on there backsides ..what a disgusting example to their kids too

Completely agree with you there, £23k is still far too much. Although I guess the Conservatives will lower it continually over their time in power, instead of doing one massive cut that could cause a backlash, lowering the limit slowly over 5 years will be a wiser way to approach the issue.

[Toy Soldier]

£23000 isn't "far too high" at all. Consider that for a family of 5, in some parts of the UK easily £8500 of that will go on rent alone and another £2000 on utility bills, £1500 Council Tax.

That leaves £11k for the year already - £211 a week - for everything for a family of 5. Food, clothes, transport, various school costs. It's obviously "doable" but it's hardly the lap of luxury... what would people see it lowered to? £20k? Leaving £155 a week for a family to live on? That's not even including London where rent could actually be more.

[Kizzy]

There won't be any people on welfare in London, that's the reason for the cap their being socially cleansed out of the capital oop north where rents are cheaper. There will be little Jaywicks springing up in Blackpool, Tyneside, Liverpool and Scarborough.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Jamesy

Completely agree with you there, £23k is still far too much. Although I guess the Conservatives will lower it continually over their time in power, instead of doing one massive cut that could cause a backlash, lowering the limit slowly over 5 years will be a wiser way to approach the issue.

I know a lot of people with 4 or more kids who have never worked. some have moonlighted on the side unofficially but that's it. I sympathise with people who do work and do try to get out of poverty...but the people who breed for benefits, the healthy people who choose worklessness I have nothing but disgust for

I know the liberal elite will accuse me of swallowing the daily mail, that's simply rubbish. The majority of people I know with 4 plus kids who live off benefits have simply decayed as people over the years. Some of them are almost unrecognisable. Their ambition self respect and self worth has dissolved. Instead they become pernicious lazy demotivated ...in many cases they fill their vacuous days with cigarettes and alcohol. In many cases they even become strangely greedy and lose respect for their possessions and money as its handed to them freely. I have xtensive experience of employing people of renting property and even worked at the social security and social services so my experience is pretty varied....in the end the truth is self evident.. idle hands make the devils work, amen.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by the truth

I strongly disagree...the staff rotas have been way too inflexible resulting in disgracefully high death rates at the weekend. where the majority of hospitals wont even scan people on the weekends for potentially life threatening stuff like blood clots....that's wrong and frankly I don't care about whata millionaire gp says, they get plenty of time off and make a fortune too...the nhs isn't about just the staff, ultimately its about the patients. getting millions scanned earlier will save the nhs an absolute fortune long term and saves millions of lives , gets people back to work....the nhs has need a better work rota for decades. its run like an ailing civil service. instead it must be a modern totally efficient caring compassionate 24/7 service in a massively populated nation that works 7 days a week....mortality rates should be the same across every day. to die simply because its a weekend is a farking travesty

What a truly uncompromising individual you are.
If GPs are stressed out to the limits even more, they will not give this great care you crave,in fact the opposite will be more likely the case,that more patients will get poorer care.

Nothing this govt. has so far announced either,will do anything as to 'bed blocking'

I really don't know why you bother to respond to me because all you can do is fire off insults.
I will take my family's assessment of the NHS over yours, because all you have done over the years is attack Nurses and accuse them of not doing their job properly, in a generalised way too, not saying the minority of Nurses fail as to their duties.

Also as far as I know my Uncle is not a millionaire. he went in to medicine to help people, he didn't go into it becoming a GP, to then have almost accountancy roles placed on him too,and now to be expected to be run ragged providing 24 hours care 7 days a week from his small practice.

You may not be interested in what Doctors have to say as to this,however they are the ones who will be having to do it.
So I would consider their input to be not only important but vital as to this.
To have them be fully consulted and any changes planned around their needs too, not just forced on them on them all regardless of size of practice.

I also actually didn't respond to you anyway,as I usually don't now, I responded to someone else.
I am only responding this once to you now because you chose to again dismiss my view,as you now always do on near all issues.
Really,that means there is no point in me wasting my time on you,if all you can do is insult people and deride their comments.
Frankly in that case, there is little point in even beginning to debate with you.
So I will not do so again.

[Kizzy]

'millionaire GPs' so every GP is a part time worker/millionaire?

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

'millionaire GPs' so every GP is a part time worker/millionaire?

Unbelievable Kizzy, it is little wonder that Hospital Doctors and GPs if they face any kind of attitude like that do not support changes stemming from that totally,in my opinion, generalised misrepresentation of them all.

In principle 7 day care is on paper a good thing,if it can be achieved with the support and full and due consultation with the medical professions who will have to be the people in the firing line.

This move, particularly as to GP services,as has been said,is likely to see GPs giving up altogether as to the UK and either giving up or going out of the UK.
Which would leave an even bigger mess and crisis to deal with.

[Kizzy]

I can't say I didn't expect it, for those who work in the profession to be blamed, they will be when this 24/7 fails too I'm not sure how it's even been proposed... they have little staff and resources for the hours currently covered in GP practice.
The only way they could balance the books would be to use more ANPs (advanced nurse practitioner) in surgeries and less doctors midweek.

[Jamesy]

Thing is most people in the NHS are more than happy to work 7 days and support the basis of the idea, but only if they're given more resources and support to implement a 7 day service. But that simply won't happen and people in the NHS won't support it when all is being proposed is that they get stretched further when already they can barely cope.

The NHS needs a hell of a lot of restructuring. Cutting middle management helps to a certain degree, although it's hardly the savior of our health service, the government need to do far more than that to get the NHS to being more stable than it currently is.

This isn't just limited to GPs (I feel their pain though), but a NHS wide problem. I have family and friends who work in various areas, from management to nursing, every area is struggling and there is nothing being done to support them. I've even myself worked in the admin department that covers the whole of the NHS in South Wales, which while not quite as bad as other areas, it's certainly not coping with the demand that has grown the past few years.

I'm not really into online debates, hate them. Although given there are people in this thread that either have hands on experience or real knowledge from people actually working in the NHS I think we have somewhat a better outlook on the issue.

[Kizzy]

My sister is an ANP, and she works Saturdays. I think it will happen, I just hope that this isn't a rouse to attest that the NHS is straining as a way to justify tendering to the private sector further.

[arista]

Yes Well Done the Conservatives

[MTVN]

Best moment of Queen's Speech day was Big John telling off the SNP thugs for their clapping in the House, shocking disrespect of Commons protocol

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Jamesy

Thing is most people in the NHS are more than happy to work 7 days and support the basis of the idea, but only if they're given more resources and support to implement a 7 day service. But that simply won't happen and people in the NHS won't support it when all is being proposed is that they get stretched further when already they can barely cope.

The NHS needs a hell of a lot of restructuring. Cutting middle management helps to a certain degree, although it's hardly the savior of our health service, the government need to do far more than that to get the NHS to being more stable than it currently is.

This isn't just limited to GPs (I feel their pain though), but a NHS wide problem. I have family and friends who work in various areas, from management to nursing, every area is struggling and there is nothing being done to support them. I've even myself worked in the admin department that covers the whole of the NHS in South Wales, which while not quite as bad as other areas, it's certainly not coping with the demand that has grown the past few years.

I'm not really into online debates, hate them. Although given there are people in this thread that either have hands on experience or real knowledge from people actually working in the NHS I think we have somewhat a better outlook on the issue.

Absolutely Jamesy and thank you for sharing your own experiences and those of your family and friends who work in the NHS too.
This is exactly what I get told from my family,again from Doctors right through to Nursing staff.
I totally agree with all you outline in the post above.

[Kizzy]

Are they wearing white roses for Yorkshire?...

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Best moment of Queen's Speech day was Big John telling off the SNP thugs for their clapping in the House, shocking disrespect of Commons protocol

It's OK, they've only been there for a little while, and haven't yet learned that the correct thing to do to show approval in the commons is bleat like a constipated sheep. "Bleeeerrrrrhhhh, myeeeeerrrr, harrrrrrrrrharrrrharrrr".

Also:

https://www.facebook.com/eric.frew.9...3400609986289/

Speaker has **** all to say about it