[arista]

Who needs America
Novo's Putin is taking it over
with Bigger Missiles.




http://news.sky.com/story/1565148/ru...om-caspian-sea

Feel The Force

[Northern Monkey]

Quite worrying.I think the Nato and Russia may clash on this.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Quite worrying.I think the Nato and Russia may clash on this.

No Nato
must let the Russians wipe out Isis/Isil



This is a clever move be Russia
In USA they are saying its sad America
could not do the same.
But of course the Lame Duck President
is weak.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by arista

No Nato
must let the Russians wipe out Isis/Isil



This is a clever move be Russia
In USA they are saying its sad America
could not do the same.
But of course the Lame Duck President
is weak.

Putin is doing what we in the West should have done a long time ago - fighting fire with even more intense fire. IS HAVE to be eradicated before the entire CIVILISED world is overcome with their toxic and barbaric bloody insanity.

Obama must be crying at the thought of all his extreme Muslim brethren finally getting the crap bombed out of them.

[smudgie]

Am I the only one that thinks this will end in tears.
Putin killing the extremists is great, but he is after Assads enemies as well, not so good.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Am I the only one that thinks this will end in tears.
Putin killing the extremists is great, but he is after Assads enemies as well, not so good.

I agree that this is not a PERFECT solution Smudgie, but it is at least a very genuine attempt at some sort of solution. I beleive that it is far better to eradicate a pandemic disease, even if it means later having to address a localised one.

[lostalex]

Someone really needs to remind Russia of their place. They are getting a bit too big for their britches.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Someone really needs to remind Russia of their place. They are getting a bit too big for their britches.

Agree with this. Russia sees herself as some kind of hero... when the reverse may well turn out to be true.

[Toy Soldier]

Fighting the very widely, very thinly spread geurilla forces of ISIS using "really big bombs" will definitely work. Definitely. The logic is infallible: it's based on professional exterminators and their advice for how to deal with wasps' nests. You know. When they're like "throw a basketball at it, that'll probably kill all of them."

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Someone really needs to remind Russia of their place. They are getting a bit too big for their britches.

Didn't George III say something similar about a scrappy group of colonials?

[Livia]

Russia has never been that bothered about collateral damage.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

Russia has never been that bothered about collateral damage.

It's not even about that, unless they actually nuke the entire country off the map. They're trying to fight small, scattered, tribe-like groups of poorly trained (i.e. expendible) fighters using traditional country-vs-county war tactics. It won't work. It didn't work in Afghanistan for the West OR Russia, and it won't work in Syria

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's not even about that, unless they actually nuke the entire country off the map. They're trying to fight small, scattered, tribe-like groups of poorly trained (i.e. expendible) fighters using traditional country-vs-county war tactics. It won't work. It didn't work in Afghanistan for the West OR Russia, and it won't work in Syria

Yes, I understand.

And... I agree.



*lays down with a cold compress on my head"

[joeysteele]

Putin does appear to have outplayed Obama in this.

Looking at the mess we have left in Libya after our interference there getting rid of Gadaffi, well it may yet still be that Assad will have to be part of a solution.

As unsavoury as that may be, we have left a mess for the likes if IS to move into form our past efforts in the region, maybe Putin will succeed where Obama and us never could.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Putin does appear to have outplayed Obama in this.

Looking at the mess we have left in Libya after our interference there getting rid of Gadaffi, well it may yet still be that Assad will have to be part of a solution.

As unsavoury as that may be, we have left a mess for the lies if IS to move into form our past efforts in the region, maybe Putin will succeed where Obama and us never could.

Good post Joey.

[waterhog]

the whole thing is a mess - but what is the next move to sorting it out ? we need head round a table.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Good post Joey.

Thank you Kirk and I agree with your first post above too, well said.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's not even about that, unless they actually nuke the entire country off the map. They're trying to fight small, scattered, tribe-like groups of poorly trained (i.e. expendible) fighters using traditional country-vs-county war tactics. It won't work. It didn't work in Afghanistan for the West OR Russia, and it won't work in Syria

Syria and Iraq are completely different 'Theatre of Wars' than Afghanistan and the latest 'intelligence' is that IS are far more organised and orthadox 'tactics-wise' than previously thought. In any event, the 'CIVILISED' nations have to do SOMETHING before it is all too late.

Perhaps then the inimitable Val Kilmer has the answer in his role of Doc Holliday:

Youtube video

[waterhog]

I think our hands are tied - and it must not be a usa or uk led action - the world need to act but it aint gonner happen.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Syria and Iraq are completely different 'Theatre of Wars' than Afghanistan and the latest 'intelligence' is that IS are far more organised and orthadox 'tactics-wise' than previously thought. In any event, the 'CIVILISED' nations have to do SOMETHING before it is all too late.

Perhaps then the inimitable Val Kilmer has the answer in his role of Doc Holliday:

Youtube video

Iraq (in the beginning) was (technically) a war on a country though, against an entrenched leadership, with a somewhat standard army with defined bases with military equipment that could be destroyed, and with specific capture / conquer objectives. ISIS is an ideology, there's no leadership that isn't easily replaced, no head of the snake. There's nothing to bomb or capture that won't simply result in more displaced, angry people for them to convert to their hateful way of thinking and use as more cannon fodder.

ISIS is everywhere, you can't bomb it, it's like trying to cure someone of a virus by throwing rocks at them until they die.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Putin is doing what we in the West should have done a long time ago - fighting fire with even more intense fire. IS HAVE to be eradicated before the entire CIVILISED world is overcome with their toxic and barbaric bloody insanity.

Obama must be crying at the thought of all his extreme Muslim brethren finally getting the crap bombed out of them.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by smudgie

Am I the only one that thinks this will end in tears.
Putin killing the extremists is great, but he is after Assads enemies as well, not so good.

This is what i think too.It's great that IS are getting what they deserve but it's what happens after that concerns me.
There will undoubtedly be a conflict of interests in that region when IS are wiped out.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Iraq (in the beginning) was (technically) a war on a country though, against an entrenched leadership, with a somewhat standard army with defined bases with military equipment that could be destroyed, and with specific capture / conquer objectives. ISIS is an ideology, there's no leadership that isn't easily replaced, no head of the snake. There's nothing to bomb or capture that won't simply result in more displaced, angry people for them to convert to their hateful way of thinking and use as more cannon fodder.

ISIS is everywhere, you can't bomb it, it's like trying to cure someone of a virus by throwing rocks at them until they die.

The old 'Martyr Means Multiplication' crap does not wash with me T.S. I believe in good old maths - the more reductions in a total number, the less that total becomes.

ISIS - like the Islamic religion itself was originally spread - is spread by a combination of intimidation and financial inducement, and very few -- if any --- converts actually believe in its ideologies.

The rationale behind its spread, is the same as that behind the increase in child murder and a host of other crime - there has been no meaningful action taken to stop, punish and deter those responsible.

Success bolsters recruitment, and with each yard forward, with each severed head held aloft, with each ancient monument destroyed with impunity, warped-minded would-be killers flock to join this band of devils. Others, who are more mercenary but guarded, see ISIS unhalted success and decide that the great cash incentives offered to recruits courtesy of the captured oil fields and ransoms paid over to ISIS, are NOW worth the rapidly diminishing risk of being killed for their troubles.

Apathy, lethargy, impotency and dithering on the part of the Western powers have been ISIS's GREATEST recruitment aide.

You are building them up into some mythical status - ISIS is no Hydra. Yes, Commanders and heads can be replaced - but that is so in ANY army, but this is no; 'Cut off its head and two regrows' Hydra scenario.

Start to BEAT them and not only will you deplete their numbers by the 'Dead Injun' method, but those who join for money will think twice, those who have been 'press ganged' into joining ISIS will flee as the chance affords itself, and SUCCESS will breed further success .

They have far reaching tendrils - partly because of Western apathy and lethargy - but they are NOT unbeatable.

There are numerous defunct ideologies, and there is nothing like slaughtering the bastards who hold this evil ideology to ensure that it goes the same way.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

This is what i think too.It's great that IS are getting what they deserve but it's what happens after that concerns me.
There will undoubtedly be a conflict of interests in that region when IS are wiped out.

I understand your concern Paul, but ISIS are THE singlemost threat to mankind which this world has ever faced. and its TOTAL eradication is all that must concern us at this critical point in time. Any secondary problems caused by eradicating this scum will be easily addressed by comparison.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I understand your concern Paul, but ISIS are THE singlemost threat to mankind which this world has ever faced. and its TOTAL eradication is all that must concern us at this critical point in time. Any secondary problems caused by eradicating this scum will be easily addressed by comparison.

I agree with everything you have said regarding IS.I just think that Putin has much more up his sleeve.Russian jets have already been detected entering Turkish airspace and Putin has been doing his usual and saying "it was an accident" which it clearly was'nt.Turkey have said they'll react with force if it happens again and NATO are backing them since they are a member state.I think Putin has yet again out witted Obama which i also think is dangerous.The US will be on high alert watching every move that Putin makes and if they don't like what they are seeing it will definately cause tensions.
Imo Russia is only in this for Russia and has longer term plans.Our media are already discrediting what Putin is doing which i think wether they are right or wrong,It is a dangerous sign.