[LeatherTrumpet]

So the extremists say well this is what it says about X and this is what the prophet says we should do to Y

The moderates say well this is this is what it says about X and this is what the prophet says we should do to Y




the reality is that, being all lies (or at best made up at the time based on a lack of knowledge and a need to use knowledge as power), you can naturally interpret it both ways


So should we intervene and outlaw this cyclical parent to child superstition ( and all religions) otherwise it just goes on and on and on?

or should we just shrug our shoulders and put up with it?

[DemolitionRed]

Are you suggesting we ban religion ?

[Northern Monkey]

The problem with Islam is imo that it is so far behind the rest of the world.The cultures who follow it are behind and it will imo be the last religion to die out.I think this is due to it being a relatively new religion.Other religions have and are adapting more to modern values.Islam is not there yet.It will change over time with the globalised society we live in and the more muslims who are moving to the west,It will have to.The problem now is that it has not yet and Islam is incompatible with our western society and there is a massive culture clash with us all being forced together like we are.Integration is moving at a snails pace as we see with all the muslim ghettos we have.Progress is being made and we are in a transition period.The tough times we are having now with Islam will get easier over time but it will take a very long time.Imo of course.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

the reality is that, being all lies

So should we intervene and outlaw this cyclical parent to child superstition ( and all religions) otherwise it just goes on and on and on?

No, because the world doesn't revolve around you and only things that you believe in and/or are comfortable with.

[T*]

I see nothing wrong with Korean food

[Mokka]

I don't see how the Koran is any different than the Bible... Christianity is split and divided into different denominations or non-denominational congregations based on interpretation of the same book of scripture. Historically Christianity is riddled with violent crimes and wars in the name of God... and hate crimes still happen today by those purporting to be acting in the cause of Christianity.

So as Demolition Red said... are you proposing we ban all religions... and then the answer to that is surely what Marsh posted... No.. because one belief system, even if that belief system is not to believe in any god or higher power, does not get to make the rules for everyone.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Are you suggesting we ban religion ?

no just parts of radical islam

[Ammi]

..it would be impossible to ban any faith../any belief, whether it be religious or not...because it's something that's in people's minds and in their hearts...could we ban the faith we have in our children/our families../friends etc...I think that if you believe that having a religious faith of any kind is not what makes someone a 'good person' in life...(..which I do..)...it's the person they are that makes them that...then having that religious belief, isn't what makes a 'bad person' either ...so 'banning' would not change anything...

[LeatherTrumpet]

Not ban it but outlaw it from schools and politics - give i no preferential treatment make sure that our politicians do not bs about it to garner votes.

We need to be teaching children about science and the latest peer reviewed research on evolution and cosmology and making sure that they know why religion existed but why it is flawed, based on lies and superstition and why that leads to the terror problems we have today.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

No, because the world doesn't revolve around you and only things that you believe in and/or are comfortable with.

forget about me marsh and think about the question

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Not ban it but outlaw it from schools and politics - give i no preferential treatment make sure that our politicians do not bs about it to garner votes.

We need to be teaching children about science and the latest peer reviewed research on evolution and cosmology and making sure that they know why religion existed but why it is flawed, based on lies and superstition and why that leads to the terror problems we have today.

..it doesn't lead to any terrorist issues there may be though..only hate and intolerance is responsible for that and outlawing is also an intolerance, so it's just adding more on more on more../.. negativity...

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..it doesn't lead to any terrorist issues there may be though..only hate and intolerance is responsible for that and outlawing is also an intolerance, so it's just adding more on more on more../.. negativity...

can you think of any reason it should be in schools save a history lesson or too, or in politics?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

can you think of any reason it should be in schools save a history lesson or too, or in politics?

..yeah I can think of reasons but we've been through this before LT......(..and I know your thoughts will probably never be changed...)..

..there are so many positives in teaching different religions and different cultures in schools because that's the only way that tolerance can ever be achieved and dispelling prejudices etc...there is no point in someone having those things through lack of knowledge or lack of understanding into their adulthood and then trying to dispel them then, because mind-sets have become so fixed and so much less 'openness'...these things should be learned in a child from birth ...

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..yeah I can think of reasons but we've been through this before LT......(..and I know your thoughts will probably never be changed...)..

..there are so many positives in teaching different religions and different cultures in schools because that's the only way that tolerance can ever be achieved and dispelling prejudices etc...there is no point in someone having those things through lack of knowledge or lack of understanding into their adulthood and then trying to dispel them then, because mind-sets have become so fixed and so much less 'openness'...these things should be learned in a child from birth ...

I agree 100%. Really strong points all through.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Ammi

..yeah I can think of reasons but we've been through this before LT......(..and I know your thoughts will probably never be changed...)..

..there are so many positives in teaching different religions and different cultures in schools because that's the only way that tolerance can ever be achieved and dispelling prejudices etc...there is no point in someone having those things through lack of knowledge or lack of understanding into their adulthood and then trying to dispel them then, because mind-sets have become so fixed and so much less 'openness'...these things should be learned in a child from birth ...

Yes I agree ammi we can teach them about it and teach them why they happen and why people believe in false gods that is fine but as part of the same way we teach them about the Vikings etc. No faith schools, no praying, no ministers near schools and making sure that children know that star signs, werewolves, gods, ghosts etc do not exist there is no evidence what so ever.

Tolerance comes from knowing why people can believe in ghosts but making sure that the child knows categorically that there is zero evidence to support them and therefore do not exist.

Not by saying well, if some people believe in them then they "could be true" - all that does is encourage superstitions

[Livia]

An anti-religion thread from LT. How refreshing...

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Yes I agree ammi we can teach them about it and teach them why they happen and why people believe in false gods that is fine but as part of the same way we teach them about the Vikings etc. No faith schools, no praying, no ministers near schools and making sure that children know that star signs, werewolves, gods, ghosts etc do not exist there is no evidence what so ever.

Tolerance comes from knowing why people can believe in ghosts but making sure that the child knows categorically that there is zero evidence to support them and therefore do not exist.

Not by saying well, if some people believe in them then they "could be true" - all that does is encourage superstitions

...hmmm, so the history lesson..(as opposed to the lesson on religion..)...would go something like...so, why did that (religious war etc..)..happen, do you think, children..?..and the response to that would be...because of lack of tolerance of other religions/cultures etc...ok, well we've banned all of that now../we've banned or out-lawed people from having any faiths or any beliefs because that'll show them what tolerance is..(..it's not something that would ever be possible to outlaw anyway but the attempt to do so would only aggravate more hate from those who choose to try to justify hate through religion..)....

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Livia

An anti-religion thread from LT. How refreshing...

well its only anti religion if you take my point of view but as a discussion forum thankfully everyone has their own opinion

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...hmmm, so the history lesson..(as opposed to the lesson on religion..)...would go something like...so, why did that (religious war etc..)..happen, do you think, children..?..and the response to that would be...because of lack of tolerance of other religions/cultures etc...ok, well we've banned all of that now../we've banned or out-lawed people from having any faiths or any beliefs because that'll show them what tolerance is..(..it's not something that would ever be possible to outlaw anyway but the attempt to do so would only aggravate more hate from those who choose to try to justify hate through religion..)....

I dont have an issue of education about religion but i do if children are labelled as part of a religion simply by accident of birth and parents

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

well its only anti religion if you take my point of view but as a discussion forum thankfully everyone has their own opinion

We know what your opinion is, you think it's hogwash. You don't have faith and you don't understand those who do. It's not exactly a new thread topic for you LT.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Livia

We know what your opinion is, you think it's hogwash. You don't have faith and you don't understand those who do. It's not exactly a new thread topic for you LT.

yes it is its about how extremism and moderation is essentially similar and the debate being if you support one there will be tacit support for the other by default

[Livia]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

yes it is its about how extremism and moderation is essentially similar and the debate being if you support one there will be tacit support for the other by default

Not to put too fine a point on it... bullsh1t.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

yes it is its about how extremism and moderation is essentially similar and the debate being if you support one there will be tacit support for the other by default

What the heck?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

forget about me marsh and think about the question

The question was should we ban it because you don't like it.

My answer was relevant.

[Livia]

Marsh telling it like it is...