[Toy Soldier]

This is a complete hypothetical, as I said, just a casual wondering, really...

IF significant numbers of polls over the next few months (and by significant I mean dozens, and every poll going one way) showed a large amount of regret over the result - for example, every single poll now showing 65%+ support for NOT implementing article 50 and remaining in the EU... What would your position be?

Would you accept that public opinion had shifted significantly and say we should just stay?

Would you think that we need a second vote?

... Or would you still want the government to forge ahead with Brexit based on Thursday's result?

Which best represents a true and fair democracy?

[arista]

No
its Set in Stone
I thank David for being Honest
In October or just after a New PM
takes over , She will start Art 50 off.


Just now on Question Time Live
I was pleased that Diane Abbott
confirmed that its Legit
and will now happen.

[DemolitionRed]

Your wording is somewhat provocative.
The democratic vote is now in and we should act on it.

[Tom4784]

Screw their regrets, they made a choice and now they're going to live with the consequences.

[smudgie]

I see no reason for anybody to panic, or have regrets yet, give it time.
The spin (lies) from both sides are over now and reality will dawn.
We opened the curtains this morning and the sky hasn't fallen in.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Your wording is somewhat provocative.
The democratic vote is now in and we should act on it.

It's not supposed to be; I'm only even specifically using Brexit because it's what's sparked my pondering the nature of democracy itself, when it matters to people, when it doesn't, and what it's actually about. Is it about fluidly representing the will of the people? Or about "snapshots" like this one? Given the very changeable nature of opinion in an age with speed-of-light information and dominant, all encompassing media, do these snapshots actually mean anything at all? And if not, what IS modern democracy? Is it sustainable?

[Wizard.]

As Cher would say "If I could turn back time, if I could find a way" with 'if' being the provactive word

[smudgie]

Originally Posted by Riley95

As Cher would say "If I could turn back time, if I could find a way" with 'if' being the provactive word

Yeah, I was thinking more of her "Believe" .
Could have gone hand in hand with a BeLeave campaign.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Riley95

As Cher would say "If I could turn back time, if I could find a way" with 'if' being the provactive word

You're a funny sort of fellow. Wherever did you spring from, champ?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

This is a complete hypothetical, as I said, just a casual wondering, really...

IF significant numbers of polls over the next few months (and by significant I mean dozens, and every poll going one way) showed a large amount of regret over the result - for example, every single poll now showing 65%+ support for NOT implementing article 50 and remaining in the EU... What would your position be?

Would you accept that public opinion had shifted significantly and say we should just stay?

Would you think that we need a second vote?

... Or would you still want the government to forge ahead with Brexit based on Thursday's result?

Which best represents a true and fair democracy?

No I wouldn't accept we should just stay. If remain had won the vote and the same went the other way, would you? Sure you would. You have to accept that we voted this way. Democracy isn't having another vote every other week until it goes the way you want it to.

[bitontheslide]

a vote is never anything other than a snapshot in time. Thats why the leave campaign are quite happy to clarify all their lies now, the vote has been cast.

There is a responsibility on those voting to verify what they are being told or that their assumptions are correct, else they are just being spoon fed what to vote.

[Vicky.]

I doubt anyone who voted one way and won would be happy with the promised action not happening, even if EVERYONE else who voted that way changed their minds and this one person was the only one still sticking by it.

Most people I know voted out, however when they found out (the mnext day! Not even waiting a month or so to break it) that immigration levels wont actually change and the NHS gets none of the 'savings' felt very duped and wished they hadn't voted out.

I just wish the campaigns, on both sides, hadn't been so intent on scaring people into voting one or the other. if either campaign was actually factual...well basically it would have made more sense for people to understand what they are actually voting for. A referendum as it was, with so much misinformation flying around was really irresponsible I think tbh. Especially for a decision we can't ever go back on.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

a vote is never anything other than a snapshot in time. Thats why the leave campaign are quite happy to clarify all their lies now, the vote has been cast.

There is a responsibility on those voting to verify what they are being told or that their assumptions are correct, else they are just being spoon fed what to vote.

I voted to leave and the leave campaign might as well have been talking like the teacher in Charlie Brown for all the influence they had over my vote. I don't know if you realise this but sometimes people can make up their own minds without being spoon fed rhetoric by politicians.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I doubt anyone who voted one way and won would be happy with the promised action not happening, even if EVERYONE else who voted that way changed their minds and this one person was the only one still sticking by it.

Most people I know voted out, however when they found out (the mnext day! Not even waiting a month or so to break it) that immigration levels wont actually change and the NHS gets none of the 'savings' felt very duped and wished they hadn't voted out.

I just wish the campaigns, on both sides, hadn't been so intent on scaring people into voting one or the other. if either campaign was actually factual...well basically it would have made more sense for people to understand what they are actually voting for. A referendum as it was, with so much misinformation flying around was really irresponsible I think tbh. Especially for a decision we can't ever go back on.

In all honestly I don't think we really know yet what will happen over the free movement of people or what funds the NHS might or might not get. There is a two year exit period, I doubt anyone can say for certain what is going to happen there until negotiations have been carried out. It is quite possible that if and when money spent on the EU is saved, the budget for the NHS will increase.

[bitontheslide]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I voted to leave and the leave campaign might as well have been talking like the teacher in Charlie Brown for all the influence they had over my vote. I don't know if you realise this but sometimes people can make up their own minds without being spoon fed rhetoric by politicians.

that was exactly the point i was making, it requires effort and thought from the voter.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by jaxie

In all honestly I don't think we really know yet what will happen over the free movement of people or what funds the NHS might or might not get. There is a two year exit period, I doubt anyone can say for certain what is going to happen there until negotiations have been carried out. It is quite possible that if and when money spent on the EU is saved, the budget for the NHS will increase.

I wish everyone had done this Jaxie I fear that heart over head won the day in a lot of cases, spurred on by headlines like Inpdendence day etc, there seems to be a lot of ...oh I didn't realise ...or mine was a protest vote..I didn't expect to actually leave votes

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by jaxie

In all honestly I don't think we really know yet what will happen over the free movement of people or what funds the NHS might or might not get. There is a two year exit period, I doubt anyone can say for certain what is going to happen there until negotiations have been carried out. It is quite possible that if and when money spent on the EU is saved, the budget for the NHS will increase.

The NHS increased funding will absolutely not happen. I would bet my life on it, and its nothing to do with the Eu or whatever, but to do with the government who are currently in power, voted for by us. The Torys have been dismantling the NHS purposely. As such, no way on earth would they send any 'saved' money that way. I don't think the general public will see a penny of any savings made. Taxed will still go up, public services will still go down.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Hang on I'll tell Dave and half of labour to rethink

[kirklancaster]

Absolutely no way. If such a precedent is set, we might as well ditch Democracy altogether and let anarchy reign.

How many times have people who voted Tory or Labour in General Elections soon come to regret their decision?

[Toy Soldier]

So the consensus then is that "democracy" is more about following a set of rules in order to fulfil the will of the individual, and not at all about ensuring that the wishes of the majority are adhered to?

[Withano]

A refferendum is not at all set in stone.. But I'm not a Brexit supporter so I can't answer this, I'd imagine 35% would not be okay with it whatsoever.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The NHS increased funding will absolutely not happen. I would bet my life on it, and its nothing to do with the Eu or whatever, but to do with the government who are currently in power, voted for by us. The Torys have been dismantling the NHS purposely. As such, no way on earth would they send any 'saved' money that way. I don't think the general public will see a penny of any savings made. Taxed will still go up, public services will still go down.

It is up to us - THE PEOPLE of this country - Vicky, to FORCE any Government to spend the Ł20 Billion pa EU savings on this county's services and infrastructure.

This is NOT money that we don't know about - as is the general case - and the Government CANNOT spend it covertly the way Cameron did with the Ł34 Billion pound extra payment he secretly made to the EU after its demand for the UK to help settle the Ł259 Billion pound 'Black Hole' in the EU Budget because of fraud, even though that theft had zilch to do with us.

Thanks to the much wrongly maligned Farage, this 'Victory' is a clear message to ALL our politicians that THE PEOPLE are the UK, and that they are nothing more than public servants - OUR servants.

THEY are our servants, and we should now ramp it up and start ACTUALLY taking a more pro-active role in politics and what the politicians are really doing with our tax monies.

The last time that British people of all political persuasions stood together, a particularly nasty piece of Government legislature called The Poll Tax was scrapped.

The money will be there. It is up to US what the polticians do with it.

[Toy Soldier]

It's a lofty and admittedly admirable goal Kirk, and genuinely, you do put so much passion into the way you state it that I know you mean it, but I just do think that we're going to (quickly) find out that the likes of BawrisJawsson and Gove have very different ideas and that so far things are very much going their way, rather than "the people's". The only blip has been them prematurely losing their main "fall guy" in Cameron but I have no doubt they'll root out another.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I wish everyone had done this Jaxie I fear that heart over head won the day in a lot of cases, spurred on by headlines like Inpdendence day etc, there seems to be a lot of ...oh I didn't realise ...or mine was a protest vote..I didn't expect to actually leave votes

I genuinely 100% feel that this will the best thing we have ever done for the UK. That's all I can say to you, give it time.

But I have never been a supporter of the EU, there are a few reasons but mostly for me it is simply unacceptable to be part of an organisation that has the power to make laws for me, but cannot be voted out democratically. I find the mindset of the European project where everyone who doesn't want that federal ideal has to be dragged along with it without any say in it and with no compromise completely alien.

[Liberty4eva]

I just had a brilliant idea for the Remainers who are mad at the result.

What if the UK government and EU set up a program where all the Remainers can sign up and, for their own sanity, keep pretending that they are still part of the EU? How it would work is every year they send Brussels 250 pounds by mail. Then the following month Brussels sends them 100 pounds along with a list of the latest bureaucratic developments which highlight the things they can and can't do.

I think it's a win-win. Those who voted for freedom from the EU will have it and those who didn't won't. I am a genius.