[Niamh.]

Thoughts? I know female circumcision is much worse but I don't get how people can be against that and then think there's nothing at all wrong with male circumcision? Personally I think unless it's done for medical reasons, it's barbaric

Iceland is poised to become the first European country to outlaw male circumcision amid signs that the ritual common to both Judaism and Islam may be a new battleground over religious freedom.

A bill currently before the Icelandic parliament proposes a penalty of up to six years in prison for anyone carrying out a circumcision other than for medical reasons. Critics say the move, which has sparked alarm among religious leaders across Europe, would make life for Jews and Muslims in Iceland unsustainable.

One in three men globally is thought to be circumcised, the vast majority for religious or cultural reasons. Many Jews and Muslims fear the issue of circumcision could become a proxy for antisemitism and Islamophobia, pointing to similar tensions over religious dress and the ritual slaughter of animals for meat.

Muslim and Jewish leaders attacked the proposal, while Cardinal Reinhard Marx, president of the Catholic Church in the European Union, said the bill was a “dangerous attack” on religious freedom. “The criminalisation of circumcision is a very grave measure that raises deep concern.”

The Icelandic bill says the circumcision of young boys violates their rights and is incompatible with the United Nations convention on the rights of the child. It draws a parallel with female genital mutilation, already outlawed in most European countries.

The bill says circumcisions are performed without anaesthesia, and claims the procedure is often carried out “in homes that are not sterile, and not by doctors but by religious leaders. There is a high risk of infections under such conditions that may lead to death.”

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ropean-country

[LeatherTrumpet]

Great news, baby mutilation for pointless superstition is disgusting


(do you hear that USA)

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Great news, baby mutilation for pointless superstition is disgusting


(do you hear that USA)

The thing about the USA is that most don't even have it done for religious reasons, it's "the norm" to just have it done otherwise you're dirty.............they should just show their boys how to wash themselves properly imo

[Vicky.]

I don't think it should be done except for medical reasons so i agree with this. Yeah some people will argue 'culture' and such but..its mutilation really IMO. If adults want to decide to get it done, fine. But it should not be inflicted on kids.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

The thing about the USA is that most don't even have it done for religious reasons, it's "the norm" to just have it done otherwise you're dirty.............they should just show their boys how to wash themselves properly imo

Its a religious hangover and its a horrible practice - would it kill mothers to do a basic google search?

[Vicky.]

Also I have read horror stories about people doing this with blunt/dirty blades, and then EATING the bits that have been cut off. I get that this is not the norm, but just..ew

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Its a religious hangover and its a horrible practice - would it kill mothers to do a basic google search?

Parents, you surely mean here.

[Cherie]

Yeah agree with this, putting a baby through this is pretty barbaric, they should be allowed to decide themselves when they get to be teenagers, same with pierced ears,I can't stand seeing toddlers with pierced ears.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Yeah agree with this, putting a baby through this is pretty barbaric, they should be allowed to decide themselves when they get to be teenagers, same with pierced ears,I can't stand seeing toddlers with pierced ears.

I agree with this. But apparently its a very controversial opinion As I have found when voicing this before. Attacked from all angles for thinking you should not just put holes in your babies ears for decoration.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Its a religious hangover and its a horrible practice - would it kill mothers to do a basic google search?

Parents*

Aren't most Americans Christians though? It's not really a Christian tradition (or maybe it used to be?)

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Parents, you surely mean here.

i do, thank you

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I agree with this. But apparently its a very controversial opinion As I have found when voicing this before. Attacked from all angles for thinking you should not just put holes in your babies ears for decoration.

It's controversial? :/ I would have thought loads would agree that it's horrific, in fact I'm surprised it's not illegal tbh

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Parents*

Aren't most Americans Christians though? It's not really a Christian tradition (or maybe it used to be?)

https://qz.com/885018/why-is-circumc...lar-in-the-us/

Its a mix of ignorance, religion and the fact they are so "isolated" from other developed countries

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

https://qz.com/885018/why-is-circumc...lar-in-the-us/

Its a mix of ignorance, religion and the fact they are so "isolated" from other developed countries

It is a legacy of God’s commandment to Abraham to circumcise his penis as a sign of their special bond

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It is a legacy of God’s commandment to Abraham to circumcise his penis as a sign of their special bond

I expect that bit was put in to keep the gang together. Just like they used to stretch babies heads in South America. I get why 2000 years ago this could be useful but ffs now?


Its beyond crazy

[LeatherTrumpet]

I wonder if Farm foods, Lidl and Aldi will follow suit?

I expect this was why marc did not get kept on at Lidl, someone reported his shorn penis when they spotted it in the loos

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It's controversial? :/ I would have thought loads would agree that it's horrific, in fact I'm surprised it's not illegal tbh

I expect its those who have put holes in their childs ears for decoration that kick off about it. maybe as they feel guilty, maybe as they do actually agree its fine..who knows. Everytime I have mentioned it anywhere I have been attacked for it Where to me, its common sense.

I mean, if Skye asked for it done at maybe 13/14 ish, I would let her get it done. But I totally disagree with doing it to babies/young children. My stepdaughter got her ears pierced at 3 years old and managed to rip the earrings out (****ing idiot aunt put hoops in too...) and then they got them done AGAIN and the same thing happened. Its just stupid. Poor kid.

[Twosugars]

Wow. Iceland is picking a fight with two politically influential religions.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Twosugars

Wow. Iceland is picking a fight with two politically influential religions.

if their defense is "coz God told us to"

I think Iceland have very little to worry about

[jaxie]

I think it's very progressive of Iceland to take this stand, good on them! I was just coming here to post this one myself!

In one of the articles I read they were saying a father was stopped from having his son circumcised for religious reasons because the mother objected. I couldn't help think the mother objects, what about the child! People think they can chop about a baby's privates in the name of religion and poor baby can't say stuff all. Just another wicked practice because God told us to.

Medical reasons only unless the grown men volunteer.

[Vicky.]

I don't actually understand how this could be a religious thing. Like, it pleases god to have foreskins removed. If this is the case, then why does god create babies with foreskins? if god hated foreskins, God would just...not create his humans with them surely?

Unless I misunderstand it all. which is possible given I am not religious in any way.

Incidentally, babies do not have a religion. So those saying its about religious freedom..well...the baby may well grow up to not be religious at all, and they have had a part of their body removed because of someone elses religion. Which is why it should be adults only.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I don't actually understand how this could be a religious thing. Like, it pleases god to have foreskins removed. If this is the case, then why does god create babies with foreskins? if god hated foreskins, God would just...not create his humans with them surely?

Unless I misunderstand it all. which is possible given I am not religious in any way.

Incidentally, babies do not have a religion. So those saying its about religious freedom..well...the baby may well grow up to not be religious at all, and they have had a part of their body removed because of someone elses religion. Which is why it should be adults only.

Because God didn't say stuff all. People made it up. It doesn't have to make sense if God said it.

Also agree 100% about piercing baby's ears. I was appalled when sister in law did nieces at 1.

[y.winter]

I come from a Jewish family (not religious), so I personally went under the knife.
I don't like the act at all, especially the fact that it's being done by a Rabbi with no medical authority, and overall it's quite barbaric.
I'm atheist so I'm not really going to do it to my son, if I'm going to have one.
Keep it for medical reasons...

[LeatherTrumpet]

Saying it was Gods will pretty much guaranteed that it would be obeyed just as saying something wouold "bring bad luck" had a similar effect.

Like when mirrors were invented they were very expensive to make and own and children could and did break them so parents said that if you broke one it would bring 7 years bad luck and "hey presto" they lasted a lot longer and kids avoided playing with them

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

if their defense is "coz God told us to"

I think Iceland have very little to worry about

very optimistic of you, the leathery one
coz yeah, religions are famous for not kicking up the fuss (not)

the only reason why Iceland may get away with it it's because it's small with small population and not many orthodox Muslims and Jews.