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Old 13-04-2018, 09:37 AM   #1
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Default Police called to Alder Hay hospital because of Alfie Evans protest

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/alfie...otest-11328278

I am struggling to understand what the family and people gathering think they will achieve by this. It says in the article that the father says the hospital is preventing them taking him home and look how healthy he is. Clearly you can't just pick up a child on life support and trot off with them.

It must be hard to accept the death of a child but the disruption to a hospital treating many other sick children seems grossly unfair.
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Old 13-04-2018, 10:24 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by jaxie View Post
https://news.sky.com/story/amp/alfie...otest-11328278

I am struggling to understand what the family and people gathering think they will achieve by this. It says in the article that the father says the hospital is preventing them taking him home and look how healthy he is. Clearly you can't just pick up a child on life support and trot off with them.

It must be hard to accept the death of a child but the disruption to a hospital treating many other sick children seems grossly unfair.
This is a hard one Jaxie, I saw the dad on video ,he was obviously distraught,I think maybe in that situation as a parent you would cling to the fact that some people have come out of comas etc, you would cling to any hope,but the hospital seem to think there is no hope for Alfie,so as an outsider you would think they know best as I said this is a hard one ,no one will win.
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Old 13-04-2018, 10:28 AM   #3
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hysteria versus medical science
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Old 13-04-2018, 10:39 AM   #4
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hysteria versus medical science
Science isn't ALWAYS right LT.
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Old 13-04-2018, 10:46 AM   #5
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I think this is an inevitable part of the Internet / social media era, it's been happening a lot lately. People have Google, so they can gather a lot of information on various conditions very quickly and form their own strong opinions vs medical professionals. And then they have social media to quickly gather a crowd of supporters, who generally mean well, but don't actually know exactly what they're campaigning for. A lot of people do very little, if any, research of their own before jumping into these sorts of campaigns.

It is understandable that people want to cling onto something as long as possible... But it can I think lead to people holding onto false hope for extended periods of time, which can make coming to terms with these unthinkable things even harder.
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Old 13-04-2018, 10:47 AM   #6
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These cases are becoming so common now, people can't accept the inevitability, doctors will be working on behalf of the child,

this comment says it all

This is my son. Look at my healthy, healthy young boy who is undiagnosed, who is certainly not dying."


How can he not be dying if he needs a machine to keep him alive?

These same people protesting will be the same people who rock up in A and E with a cut finger
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Self-respect? Also I dont even follow football so wouldnt have considered it anyway, I just made the daft mistake of answering to a thread without checking to see who was leering inside waiting for a random argument.
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Old 13-04-2018, 10:48 AM   #7
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Oh snap TS, look at us on the same page
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Self-respect? Also I dont even follow football so wouldnt have considered it anyway, I just made the daft mistake of answering to a thread without checking to see who was leering inside waiting for a random argument.
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Old 13-04-2018, 11:02 AM   #8
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Im sorry but they dont care about the child like they should they just want the child to suffer by being selfish.

Put the childs needs first not your own
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Old 13-04-2018, 11:10 AM   #9
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Im sorry but they dont care about the child like they should they just want the child to suffer by being selfish.

Put the childs needs first not your own
Ah stop, that's an awful thing to say, that's their baby, i couldn't even imagine having to go through that. It may not be the right thing but saying they want him to suffer is really below the belt. They don't want him to die
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Old 13-04-2018, 11:13 AM   #10
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Ah stop, that's an awful thing to say, that's their baby, i couldn't even imagine having to go through that. It may not be the right thing but saying they want him to suffer is really below the belt. They don't want him to die
there is one thing wanting your baby to survive, but to want him to be taken from life support when he wont breathe on his own or to keep the child in pain is not a nice thing at all.

Sometimes in life you have to realise bad things will happened there is no way of stopping them, Id just want the child to be pain free in peace
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Old 13-04-2018, 11:16 AM   #11
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there is one thing wanting your baby to survive, but to want him to be taken from life support when he wont breathe on his own or to keep the child in pain is not a nice thing at all.

Sometimes in life you have to realise bad things will happened there is no way of stopping them, Id just want the child to be pain free in peace
I agree with you that it's not the right thing to do but they're clearly in denial and taking it very badly (which is completely understandable tbf, even thinking about being in their shoes fills me with horror)
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Old 13-04-2018, 11:17 AM   #12
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Sometimes in life you have to put other peoples pain first
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Old 13-04-2018, 11:44 AM   #13
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From what I saw last night - they have medics and full equipment available but want to get him to Italy where they have been promised pioneering treatment. They have a private medical jet at their disposal. Its not a case of they want to rip his tubes out and take him to McDonalds.

I feel desperately sorry for them all - although the medics are not acting maliciously either - they don't want him to suffer and believe they can't help him futher
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Old 13-04-2018, 11:49 AM   #14
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From what I saw last night - they have medics and full equipment available but want to get him to Italy where they have been promised pioneering treatment. They have a private medical jet at their disposal. Its not a case of they want to rip his tubes out and take him to McDonalds.

I feel desperately sorry for them all - although the medics are not acting maliciously either - they don't want him to suffer and believe they can't help him futher
Oh OK, if that's the case then I completely understand why they're fighting, if there's any chance of saving him, wouldn't every parent fight tooth and nail to try?
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Katie Hopkins reveals epilepsy made her suicidal - and says she identifies as a MAN
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Old 13-04-2018, 11:52 AM   #15
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From what I saw last night - they have medics and full equipment available but want to get him to Italy where they have been promised pioneering treatment. They have a private medical jet at their disposal. Its not a case of they want to rip his tubes out and take him to McDonalds.

I feel desperately sorry for them all - although the medics are not acting maliciously either - they don't want him to suffer and believe they can't help him futher
This is very much the same as the last similar case though; that time doctors in America, pioneering treatments, making huge promises... It all turned out to be insubstantial.
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Old 13-04-2018, 11:54 AM   #16
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This is very much the same as the last similar case though; that time doctors in America, pioneering treatments, making huge promises... It all turned out to be insubstantial.
Yeah, I know that. I was just making the distinction as Adam seemed to think they wanted to remove him from his life support to take him home but that isn't the case at the moment.

Heartbreaking for all
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Old 13-04-2018, 11:55 AM   #17
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Will he even survive the long journey to another country? its not like they are moving him up the road
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Old 13-04-2018, 11:56 AM   #18
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Oh OK, if that's the case then I completely understand why they're fighting, if there's any chance of saving him, wouldn't every parent fight tooth and nail to try?
The issue is that neurological damage can only ever be halted, it can't be reversed... And if doctors here have assessed the child as being beyond recovery, then attempting to prolong his life with pioneering treatments isn't necessarily the right thing to do.

These cases are the toughest ones really because like the dad says, what you actually see is a "healthy looking boy" and we have instincts for identifying people who are very ill or dying. If a dying family member LOOKS very ill, people tend to accept it. But in these cases, there's nothing wrong with their physical bodies so they can look physically totally fine even when effectively brain dead. I think it creates a situation for family that's very hard to process.
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Old 13-04-2018, 11:58 AM   #19
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The issue is that neurological damage can only ever be halted, it can't be reversed... And if doctors here have assessed the child as being beyond recovery, then attempting to prolong his life with pioneering treatments isn't necessarily the right thing to do.

These cases are the toughest ones really because like the dad says, what you actually see is a "healthy looking boy" and we have instincts for identifying people who are very ill or dying. If a dying family member LOOKS very ill, people tend to accept it. But in these cases, there's nothing wrong with their physical bodies so they can look physically totally fine even when effectively brain dead. I think it creates a situation for family that's very hard to process.
Yeah that makes sense. Ugh just heartbreaking though
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Just because she is a giant cock, doesn't make her a man.
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Old 13-04-2018, 12:08 PM   #20
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Yeah that makes sense. Ugh just heartbreaking though
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get through it in all honesty.
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Old 13-04-2018, 12:10 PM   #21
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I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get through it in all honesty.
I know, I just don't know where people get the strength to keep going tbh, I guess if you have other children you'd have to do your best
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Just because she is a giant cock, doesn't make her a man.
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Old 13-04-2018, 12:16 PM   #22
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I think this is an inevitable part of the Internet / social media era, it's been happening a lot lately. People have Google, so they can gather a lot of information on various conditions very quickly and form their own strong opinions vs medical professionals. And then they have social media to quickly gather a crowd of supporters, who generally mean well, but don't actually know exactly what they're campaigning for. A lot of people do very little, if any, research of their own before jumping into these sorts of campaigns.

It is understandable that people want to cling onto something as long as possible... But it can I think lead to people holding onto false hope for extended periods of time, which can make coming to terms with these unthinkable things even harder.
Yes I think you are completely right TS, particularly about it all making the inevitable harder to accept.

I suppose I find all the protesters buying into the idea that the hospital don't have the child's best interests at heart hard to understand. Hospitals like Alder Hay and Great Ormand Street give amazing, dedicated care and save lives every day. They aren't the enemy.

TBH I don't think the Pope and his children's hospital have been very helpful either in both this and the Charlie Gard case. Since what is wrong is undiagnosed because its so rare how can they have something to help? It seems like peddling false hope.

I suspect if they take him home they will run straight to chunnel in their specially equipped van.
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Old 13-04-2018, 12:41 PM   #23
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The parents have been granted a fresh appeal in Court on Monday
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Old 13-04-2018, 01:03 PM   #24
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This is very much the same as the last similar case though; that time doctors in America, pioneering treatments, making huge promises... It all turned out to be insubstantial.
That was one instance, you can't gauge all attempts the same due to one failed treatment.
The point is they and others are willing to try.
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Old 13-04-2018, 01:04 PM   #25
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The parents have been granted a fresh appeal in Court on Monday
Great news
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