View Full Version : Should weed (cannabis) be legalised?
SurferJay
12-09-2009, 11:57 AM
Everyone knows weed is better for you than alcohol. And yet alcohol is legal and weed is not..
Vicky.
12-09-2009, 12:00 PM
Yes, my grandma suffered terrible arthiritus, I used to make her space cakes for the pain...I told her it was a herbal remedy, feel quite bad for lying, but it did her the world of good. Lots of people I know use it for pain relief, I dont think its fair that they 'could' be arrested for finding their own remedies, that work, instead of taking tablets from the doctor that usually make you worse.
Everyone who wants to use it already does, its not exactly hard to get hold of. If it was legalised it could be properly regulated and they'd be able to make it safer.
I still wouldn't touch the stuff though
SurferJay
12-09-2009, 12:30 PM
I still wouldn't touch the stuff though
Just wondering, do you drink?
Ninastar
12-09-2009, 12:41 PM
yes in a way it should. If they just legalised it, at first loads of people would want it and then it would eventually just die down, if you get me lol
Ramsay
12-09-2009, 12:41 PM
Yes and No
If it does become legal the price of it will go way up
but then again i wouldnt have to get sketchy with it
30stone
12-09-2009, 01:18 PM
Everyone who wants to use it already does, its not exactly hard to get hold of. If it was legalised it could be properly regulated and they'd be able to make it safer.
I still wouldn't touch the stuff though
Yeah agreed.
Never touch it :yuk:
But i dont care
NettoSuperstar!
12-09-2009, 01:21 PM
If it got rid of skunk Im all for it
arista
12-09-2009, 01:32 PM
If it got rid of skunk Im all for it
No it would Increase.
In the UK it will Never Ever be Legal
except after Nukes have gone off.
Fact.
andyman
12-09-2009, 01:55 PM
If it got rid of skunk Im all for it
No it would Increase.
In the UK it will Never Ever be Legal
except after Nukes have gone off.
Fact.
Fact?
I still wouldn't touch the stuff though
Just wondering, do you drink?
Yes.
Shaun
12-09-2009, 02:30 PM
If it got rid of skunk Im all for it
No it would Increase.
In the UK it will Never Ever be Legal
except after Nukes have gone off.
Fact.
Fact?
It's arista's most-used suffix, it seems to translate as "IMO".
------------------------------------
Anyway, I'm all for it. Lot more fun than booze in my experience. :]
King Gizzard
12-09-2009, 02:31 PM
Its not a fact Arista, it might well happen.
arista
12-09-2009, 02:42 PM
Its not a fact Arista, it might well happen.
No way.
BBUK4LYFE
12-09-2009, 03:14 PM
No, it should NOT be legalized.
Twilight
12-09-2009, 06:47 PM
Yeah but only for people that are in pain. Not so some people can get high and make they lifes a mess
ButterflyGirl
12-09-2009, 07:26 PM
for medical purposes yes but for people to just get high not sure as it can lead to serious health problems so means more heavy loading on the nhs
Shaun
12-09-2009, 08:06 PM
RE: The health problems argument - alcohol causes that, does it not?
Scarlett.
12-09-2009, 08:15 PM
RE: The health problems argument - alcohol causes that, does it not?Only if you drink it constantly
RE: The health problems argument - alcohol causes that, does it not?
alcohol damage is reversible if it isn't excessive but weed can screw your brain up, and the way most people taking it (smoking) causes damage in itself
GypsyGoth
13-09-2009, 07:22 PM
As suggested doctors prescribing it for people seems good. I tried it a couple of times.
Last time I didn't like it at all, I felt weird and everywhere seemed strange. It was scary.
I think I have one of those brains that doesn't agree with it.
Jayson
13-09-2009, 07:25 PM
I am all for it.
AfroMullet
13-09-2009, 09:14 PM
They illegallised it to persecute the Rasta's.
Now its illegal, they gotta leave it illegal or all sorts of **** will will off. If they make it legal then ASDA will start sellin it, and make better deals (Great for you smokers), then the shotta's - thus puttin them outta business, so then to get there money they either gotta start other crime, robberies etc (Crime rate up) or start sellin suttin harder (Harder drug abuse goes up), as an overall effect its a no win. Theres some hood econimics for you.
Plus 99% if the the people in this country dont understand it or use it right. I dont ****s with weed, only herb.
Iceman
13-09-2009, 10:23 PM
Definately legalise it...
Cut out the middleman and just have cafes with pre-rolled joints.....
SurferJay
14-09-2009, 03:12 PM
I cant believe so many people are saying no.. I think people associate weed with harder drug's and assume it must be adddictive and worse than cigarettes.
I think the best argement so far has been about its effect on the economy but even still if its introduced correctly I dont see it having that bad of an effect. As for health problems: http://www.everyonedoesit.co.uk/cannabis_information/health/cannabis_health_cannabis_vs_alcohol.cfm
bananarama
23-09-2009, 01:45 AM
No it should not be legalised.......In fact the taking of any recreational drugs should be criminmalised and dealt with in the most draconian way posible including execusions for repeat offenders.....Drug takers are losers and wasters.........The planet does not need them......
do you like music bananarama ?
setanta
23-09-2009, 03:55 PM
Yeah, legalise it.
Yes. Loads of people take it anyway. I know more people who take weed more than alcohol and alcohol can have worse long term effects on the body so yeah, I personally think it should be made legal.
Shaun
23-09-2009, 04:10 PM
No it should not be legalised.......In fact the taking of any recreational drugs should be criminmalised and dealt with in the most draconian way posible including execusions for repeat offenders.....Drug takers are losers and wasters.........The planet does not need them......
What a characteristically rational approach.
setanta
23-09-2009, 04:12 PM
The funny thing is it'll cut down on violence on the streets too because I've worked in bars for years and seen the damage that people inflict on each other when they're pissed drunk, which you never see when people are after having some scooby snacks. It honestly pacifies people.
setanta
23-09-2009, 04:13 PM
No it should not be legalised.......In fact the taking of any recreational drugs should be criminmalised and dealt with in the most draconian way posible including execusions for repeat offenders.....Drug takers are losers and wasters.........The planet does not need them......
What a characteristically rational approach.
I'd say more like a fascist approach to the problem lol
Vicky.
23-09-2009, 04:17 PM
No it should not be legalised.......In fact the taking of any recreational drugs should be criminmalised and dealt with in the most draconian way posible including execusions for repeat offenders.....Drug takers are losers and wasters.........The planet does not need them......Im sure alcohol is a kind of recreational drug. Should we punish all drinkers also?
arista
23-09-2009, 04:41 PM
No it should not be legalised.......In fact the taking of any recreational drugs should be criminmalised and dealt with in the most draconian way posible including execusions for repeat offenders.....Drug takers are losers and wasters.........The planet does not need them......Im sure alcohol is a kind of recreational drug. Should we punish all drinkers also?
No VJ
Drinks are Legal.
Stinking Junkies are Illegal.
Life In The City.
MassiveTruck
23-09-2009, 04:53 PM
Since it's medicinal uses are being sold by pharmacies and otherwise it's just a sedative in cannabis or baked...
God No.
It's only popular now due to terrorism and the masses of imports and slave trade in this country due to hydro-ponics being such an easy route to fund criminal activity.
If you make it legal it will just make it easier for crooks to supply it and state it's legal and therefore funding criminal activity.
The be all and end of it is, it's a quicker buzz than Alcohol, therefore less (unless you're addictive and it's really hit your system) is required to get a high - therefore if it's legal then it will be exploited to the high heavens.
The medicinal use that is related to pain is as a sedative - i.e. it sedates you and one can only wonder what quality of life somebody has when they're sedated.
Other than that - there is a huge time bomb in terms of mental health problems and psychological dependency related to Cannabis... some of the recent studies are shocking and the rise in number of Schizophrenics due to Cannabis. Numerous research saying we're sitting on a mental illness time bomb due to the uptake of Cannabis by Teenagers in the past 10 years.
Far too much naivety related to this drug - partly because everybody in this country knows that if the **** hit the fan then the NHS will care for you.
MassiveTruck
23-09-2009, 04:57 PM
The funny thing is it'll cut down on violence on the streets too because I've worked in bars for years and seen the damage that people inflict on each other when they're p****d drunk, which you never see when people are after having some scooby snacks. It honestly pacifies people.
The funny thing is, the rise in use has been due to hydroponics which allows quick growth and quick sale. Mainly used by criminal gangs, bringing in labour from overseas into a slave trade.
The hydroponic based Cannabis (usually skunk and other derivatives with high THC content) has been regularly found in a lot of the extreme violent crimes around the country lately as well. Due to Cannabis remaining in the system for a long time, pro-cannabis camps say you can't state whether the Skunk/Cannabis was the cause of the crime or not - either way, it was a user.
MassiveTruck
23-09-2009, 05:19 PM
I cant believe so many people are saying no.. I think people associate weed with harder drug's and assume it must be adddictive and worse than cigarettes.
I think the best argement so far has been about its effect on the economy but even still if its introduced correctly I dont see it having that bad of an effect. As for health problems: http://www.everyonedoesit.co.uk/cannabis_information/health/cannabis_health_cannabis_vs_alcohol.cfm
LOL That's hilarious. Don't take that drug - Take THIS Drug!!! :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:
I disagree with a lot of what is said there. How about the suicides from people having mental health problems from Cannabis and the rise in Schizophrenic admissions from Cannabis? Don't they count - or just what Pro-Cannabis camps choose and the studies they choose to show?
setanta
23-09-2009, 05:22 PM
The funny thing is it'll cut down on violence on the streets too because I've worked in bars for years and seen the damage that people inflict on each other when they're p****d drunk, which you never see when people are after having some scooby snacks. It honestly pacifies people.
The funny thing is, the rise in use has been due to hydroponics which allows quick growth and quick sale. Mainly used by criminal gangs, bringing in labour from overseas into a slave trade.
The hydroponic based Cannabis (usually skunk and other derivatives with high THC content) has been regularly found in a lot of the extreme violent crimes around the country lately as well. Due to Cannabis remaining in the system for a long time, pro-cannabis camps say you can't state whether the Skunk/Cannabis was the cause of the crime or not - either way, it was a user.
Yes, exactly.... criminal.... legalise it and the threat disappears with regard to criminal/gang related activity and forced labour. As for cannabis being involved in theft and violent crime - nah, not with you cuz you have no stats to back it up with and you're trying to find a scapegoat for crime. I could throw out alcholol and domestic abuse at you right now. I'd say that the statistics would prove that alcohol, as well as heroin or cocaine would be involved in far more cases of violent crime. Sure that's basically a certainty.
*mazedsalv**
23-09-2009, 05:24 PM
Its easy to get hold of anyways, people get away with it, so they might as well legalise it now.
Loads of my friends smoke weed, I dont though, I dont do drugs or smoke... quite proud of me!:hugesmile: I do drink though, but didnt know that weed was less dangerous than alcohol.
arista
23-09-2009, 05:40 PM
Its easy to get hold of anyways, people get away with it, so they might as well legalise it now.
Loads of my friends smoke weed, I dont though, I dont do drugs or smoke... quite proud of me!:hugesmile: I do drink though, but didnt know that weed was less dangerous than alcohol.
No it will Not be Legal
On London TV News 2 Junkies had been robbing
rich women around London half killing them.
They both got Life.
Justice .
MassiveTruck
23-09-2009, 05:44 PM
The funny thing is it'll cut down on violence on the streets too because I've worked in bars for years and seen the damage that people inflict on each other when they're p****d drunk, which you never see when people are after having some scooby snacks. It honestly pacifies people.
The funny thing is, the rise in use has been due to hydroponics which allows quick growth and quick sale. Mainly used by criminal gangs, bringing in labour from overseas into a slave trade.
The hydroponic based Cannabis (usually skunk and other derivatives with high THC content) has been regularly found in a lot of the extreme violent crimes around the country lately as well. Due to Cannabis remaining in the system for a long time, pro-cannabis camps say you can't state whether the Skunk/Cannabis was the cause of the crime or not - either way, it was a user.
Yes, exactly.... criminal.... legalise it and the threat disappears with regard to criminal/gang related activity and forced labour. As for cannabis being involved in theft and violent crime - nah, not with you cuz you have no stats to back it up with and you're trying to find a scapegoat for crime. I could throw out alcholol and domestic abuse at you right now. I'd say that the statistics would prove that alcohol, as well as heroin or cocaine would be involved in far more cases of violent crime. Sure that's basically a certainty.
But you can't remove criminal activity by legalising it. It will just make it easier for them then and it will encourage more people to do it because legally it is allowed and therefore it will make it easier to make avenues towards it. Therefore making it easier for terrorists to ship cannabis to the uk. A large proportion of our cannabis from overseas comes from Afghanistan and the middle east funding war torn countries.
Then in this country it nourishes sex trade and money is then transported over seas to nourish terrorist activity in other countries.
This is the power of drugs. The naivety is from people who haven't got a clue and think it's just a "Good time" drug where people sit around listening to cheesy pop music having a good time. It's exploiting people who haven't got the cojones to get a life and need drugs and people in the underworld know we've got a lot of those in this country.
I am not trying to find a scapegoat for crime. If reports are around that state that a lot of people involved in violent crime were under the influence of skunk then that is available. You cannot deny that - you cannot say "oh, it's a fallacy". This is the utterly ridiculous view of the pro-cannabis camp that what they say is fine and true but anything against cannabis is a lie, a conspiracy, propoganda. Laughable.
How can you say Heroin is involved in more violent crime? Are you high? Cannabis is the leading most widely used drug and now easier to cultivate and easier to spread and provide as well. So considering this:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/cannabis-users-five-times-more-prone-to-violence-677574.html
http://www.druglibrary.org/Schaffer/Library/studies/canadasenate/vol1/chapter6_cannabis_violence_and_crime.htm
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23369774-details/Review%20of%20cannabis%20laws%20as%20drug-fuelled%20violence%20spirals/article.do
http://ncpic.org.au/ncpic/publications/factsheets/article/cannabis-and-aggression
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/114202974/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
And you can search google and find tonnes of information regarding this including studies and publications from all over the world - it is not something you can say "nah man, it just chills you out man, Marley took it man, he was all about peace man - yeah yeah" snore.
setanta
23-09-2009, 05:50 PM
Funny, one of those articles proved my point that alcohol and cocaine are more responsible for violent crime and theft than weed. And it states that the fact weed is illegal makes some people resort to illegal acts. I'm telling you, if they legalise it it wont destroy the fabric of society like you're going on about.
"In short, the Committee has learned that cannabis is not a cause of violence or crime except in rare cases, and of course excluding driving while under the influence, which will be dealt with in Chapter 8."
MassiveTruck
23-09-2009, 06:01 PM
Funny, one of those articles proved my point that alcohol and cocaine are more responsible for violent crime and theft than weed. And it states that the fact weed is illegal makes some people resort to illegal acts. I'm telling you, if they legalise it it wont destroy the fabric of society like you're going on about.
"In short, the Committee has learned that cannabis is not a cause of violence or crime except in rare cases, and of course excluding driving while under the influence, which will be dealt with in Chapter 8."
What I love about your post is it's exactly like what I said in the previous post about pro-cannabis that you'll read some things, put your own spin on it and then say "ooh, look, we're right and the Government and everybody is wrong".
It doesn't work like that and it never has. You can't just pick a couple of quotes, spin it around, completely out of context might I add and then say "yeah man, I'm right... see..."
Well I don't see.
This is the Full! quote:
A significant proportion of offenders have psychoactive substance abuse problems, predominantly with alcohol. In fact, the study concludes that alcohol is the substance most frequently associated with violent crime; in the case of crimes against property, illegal drugs predominate. Cannabis ranked third (3% to 6% according to the study), far behind alcohol (24%) and cocaine (8% to 11%).
Crimes against property, not violent crime. Obviously, due to the prevalence of Alcohol all over the place then it will have a massive chunk of violent crime. But if you don't take it out of context and you include everything I have posted you will see clear and alarming views that Cannabis is related to violent crime.
You can't bluntly then say it will lower crime if it is legalised. It will increase crime because it is prevalent and as I have said it will make it easier for criminals to get away with crime and encourage their activities without being found it. In summary, it will make life easier for them because they have the law on their side.
The committee you spoke of there are a pro-cannabis group who basically (probably while puffing on a joint) said it doesn't relate to violent crime.
Seriously, search the net and then tell me with a straight face that it isn't related to violent crime.
setanta
23-09-2009, 06:11 PM
Yes, 3% to 6%, far behind alcohol (a legal drug!) and cocaine.
Ramsay
23-09-2009, 06:11 PM
as much as id love for it to be legalised
it wont...ever
MassiveTruck
23-09-2009, 06:14 PM
Yes, 3% to 6%, far behind alcohol (a legal drug!) and cocaine.
Are you on the wind up?
That's crimes against property, not violent crimes... seriously. Read it. This is the second time I'm telling you, the third time you've had a chance to look at it.
setanta
23-09-2009, 06:14 PM
Yes, and alcohol is the most common substance found in violent crimes. Aren't you reading it?
MassiveTruck
23-09-2009, 06:21 PM
Yes, and alcohol is the most common substance found in violent crimes. Aren't you reading it?
Of course I am (I've already replied to this) but like I have already said it and should be utterly obvious, Alcohol would easily be the leader due to it being "LEGAL" (operative word here - important) and Cannabis not being so.
I have also offered you numerous articles and asked you to search the net to find more. You are continuing to ignore this as well.
What do you expect from a pro-cannabis site? Nothing more than Alcohol is bad, reasons why Cannabis isn't so legalise it?
How pathetic. Such a circular argument it's laughable.
setanta
23-09-2009, 06:35 PM
Yes, and alcohol is the most common substance found in violent crimes. Aren't you reading it?
Of course I am but like I have already said it and should be utterly obvious, Alcohol would easily be the leader due to it being "LEGAL" (operative word here - important) and Cannabis not being so.
I have also offered you numerous articles and asked you to search the net to find more. You are continuing to ignore this as well.
What do you expect from a pro-cannabis site? Nothing more than Alcohol is bad, reasons why Cannabis isn't so legalise it?
How pathetic. Such a circular argument it's laughable.
No it's not laughable actually. What's laughable is your attempt to vilify cannabis when it's been around for thousands of years and has been used by many civilisations throughout time. You're on a witch-hunt here when all evidence points to the fact that other drugs are inherently more dangerous and yet you continue to validate your argument by saying that obviously alcohol is involved with more violent crimes because it's taken more regularly as it's LEGAL. There's no logic in that statement when you consider everything else you've suggested in this thread.
Actually that line about alcohol is very interesting when you consider the damage Prohibition caused in the United States all those years ago. By making something illegal you attract the wrong type of characters..... has nothing to do with the drug itself.... it's in the nature of certain people to go beyond the laws of a society and involve themselves in crime. I can't believe you're still arguing about Cannabis being at the heart of so much violence and crime when all stats point the other way and suggests that there's other drugs that are far more culpable.
I'm all for legalising it because as far as I'm concerned it will eliminate that shady element from the drug and it will give people more freedom of choice, rather than being at the mercy of what the government feels is right. They get it wrong sometimes mate. If someone wants to smoke it, and by doing so they don't encroach on my freedoms or liberty, and they've been made aware of the health issues involved -just like tobacco or alcohol- then by all means do what you want with your own recreational time. Cannabis is a naturally grown plant .... people have used it for centuries.
30stone
23-09-2009, 08:26 PM
Don't see any point in legalising it..
As loads of people would take it, and its not good for your head.
Enough people take it anyway.
MassiveTruck
23-09-2009, 08:54 PM
Yes, and alcohol is the most common substance found in violent crimes. Aren't you reading it?
Of course I am but like I have already said it and should be utterly obvious, Alcohol would easily be the leader due to it being "LEGAL" (operative word here - important) and Cannabis not being so.
I have also offered you numerous articles and asked you to search the net to find more. You are continuing to ignore this as well.
What do you expect from a pro-cannabis site? Nothing more than Alcohol is bad, reasons why Cannabis isn't so legalise it?
How pathetic. Such a circular argument it's laughable.
No it's not laughable actually. What's laughable is your attempt to vilify cannabis when it's been around for thousands of years and has been used by many civilisations throughout time. You're on a witch-hunt here when all evidence points to the fact that other drugs are inherently more dangerous and yet you continue to validate your argument by saying that obviously alcohol is involved with more violent crimes because it's taken more regularly as it's LEGAL. There's no logic in that statement when you consider everything else you've suggested in this thread.
Actually that line about alcohol is very interesting when you consider the damage Prohibition caused in the United States all those years ago. By making something illegal you attract the wrong type of characters..... has nothing to do with the drug itself.... it's in the nature of certain people to go beyond the laws of a society and involve themselves in crime. I can't believe you're still arguing about Cannabis being at the heart of so much violence and crime when all stats point the other way and suggests that there's other drugs that are far more culpable.
I'm all for legalising it because as far as I'm concerned it will eliminate that shady element from the drug and it will give people more freedom of choice, rather than being at the mercy of what the government feels is right. They get it wrong sometimes mate. If someone wants to smoke it, and by doing so they don't encroach on my freedoms or liberty, and they've been made aware of the health issues involved -just like tobacco or alcohol- then by all means do what you want with your own recreational time. Cannabis is a naturally grown plant .... people have used it for centuries.
Do you know what I love most about your replies? The inherent prejudice that a drug is ok. This kind of prejudice has littered our society so much that there are so many users out there, arrogant enough, egotistical enough while living in a democratic country with freedom but also, free healthcare, human rights laws - to run around and do what they like, say what they like and the laws and the country will protect them.
And you know what else I love to go with what I just said, how you ignore something so I have to repeat it over and over again.
I also love how you think I don't know that pro-cannabis internet sites and pro-cannabis users have said it's been around for years and using historical arguments to try and prove something today.
OK, let's put in a pop question here. People have committed suicide from using Cannabis. Is that a good thing if we legalise it?
OK, here's another pop question. There has been a significant rise in Cannabis use leading to Schizophrenia. Notable in academic and professional publications. Is this a good thing?
Cannabis is used by terrorism, well documented to push arms. Is this a good thing?
Simple questions, that you have avoided above.
Now - just to eliminate your view that Cannabis has been used for years - it hasn't. Hemp and it's properties. The plant, has been used for years. Not cannabis. Cannabis is the drug. Cannabis has not been used for thousands of years. It's Hemp that has the medicinal qualities.
Cannabis is a drug. In fact it is a sedative. You know something else? The Hydroponics that are widely available on the streets these days? It has zero medicinal benefits. It's a sedative at best but has a higher chance to initiate psychoactive reactions towards mental illness in people. Notice the difference. Take into account the difference. Understand the difference between Cannabis and Hemp.
Hemp is one thing.
Cannabis is another thing.
Cannabis is made form Hemp but they have differing qualities. Differing properties. The Pro-Cannabis world fools, manipulates many people into believing that Hemp properties can be interchangeable into cannabis. They can't but you can fool people long enough. What do they say? If you say a lie long enough and loud enough - it become true?
Oh geez!!! Cannabis is not a naturally occurring plant. OK? It's a drug, made from hemp. Marijuana.
For example, a quote from Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemp
This article is about industrial hemp. For its psychoactive variant, see Cannabis (drug).
It's not natural dude. This is more propoganda from the Pro-Cannabis groups to try and remove it from it's true status. Tell you what... a Carrot leaf is a plant? Let's see if I get a buzz from that... shall I? Or how about stalk off a potato plant... let me see if I will have to visit the local hospital for mental health problems after putting it in a rizla...? Yeah?
You really need to understand, civil liberties and social liberties and the policy there in. This includes the use of drugs. You talk about the governments getting it wrong. Let me illustrate an example I gave you in previous posts with more depth ok?
Imagine I am in Iraq and a bunch of start to get stoned (let's remove the fact that it's a war torn country, unemployment is rife, it's difficult to get by and drugs is the last time on our mind because we have a life). Now, let's say, as statistics go that 1 in 10 hard users have life long complications... so one in ten have really bad problems and then he has a life long complication with no health care, no doctor, no rehabilitation schedule at all - nothing. Unlike in this country where drug and reactions to it causes long term problems to the system but we can cope because we pay taxes and can deal with it because money is in the system FOR...
people who want to exercise their freedom to get sedated/stoned? See the picture here?
Also tell me why you are ignoring all the data on the internet that shows that there is a link between violent crime and Cannabis? You keep posting the propoganda like you are protesting but you are not really responding to everything I am saying. I was seriously not going to respond now because you don't even respond to what I say. I'm saying look at this and you're just giving statements from propoganda and biassed websites which are largely ran by drug dealers who have a fiscal interest and therefore are largely in the wrong.
Also the argument about Alcohol having more violent crime due to it being used more is legitimate. It's a straight forward issue - very easy to understand.
Oh man, the prohibition argument. Prohibition was introduced as an economic factor to encourage people to use and was brought back into the system against once large scale employment post the introduction of mass production was brought forward. You are also comparing alcohol and cannabis. It's like comparing a monkey with a fish. Two completely different drugs, two completely different effects on a person and two completely different reactions.
Let's lay down the law in reference to the two. Alcohol has a legitimate and known rehabilitation route. Cannabis, due to it's effect upon the morphic structure of the brain, does not. The fact it has a long running change in personality, behaviour, development highlights the problems here. The fact it can be produced cheaper, in bulk through hydroponics with very cheap equipment highlights how once you legalise you make things easier for the criminal (a point I have already made above and responded to previously a few times).
In ending, I have to laugh that you call this a witch hunt. It's an argument and a very strong one as well. Maybe you can go to the homes of the people who have had friends and family's lives ruined by cannabis and tell them it's ok.
Seriously man, if you think it's all A OK and that this is fine and dandy then cool but let's face facts, it's the general public, Free living individuals who pick up the mess...
...and the pro-cannabis stoners who are off their heads who write endless stuff against it.
Then there are people who believe it because they think the Government is against it.
If you don't like it - leave the country. It's an easy option - but why are you here? Oh, it's the liberties.
There you go.
setanta
24-09-2009, 12:34 AM
It's official: you are the biggest wind up merchant on this forum who's posted a meandering essay that displays your total bias on the subject. There's so many of your points(?)that I want to respond to but I don't think you'll ever accept anything I say, no matter how I present my case. Your rhetoric and condemnation is astounding to me actually. Did you even read my comments, where I suggested that people should be given all the facts and dangers surrounding marijuana - just like they do with tobacco and alcohol- and that if the state did legalise it or decriminalise it to a certain extent , at least then it could be taxed and monitored.
Drug taking has always occurred throughout history; cannabis included! It's a naturally grown plant that's been used in many countries and civilisations. You continue to rant on about it not being natural which is so funny when the fecking thing is grown! They're from the same genus (Cannabis!) with hemp often the name used for all but hemp and cannabis are different strains of the plant ... you need to start reading about them before you start announcing that cannabis wasn't used centuries ago and isn't natural when it most definitely was and is.
As for cannabis funding terrorism and crime; criminals will use the black market for a steady cash flow and to lay the blame on cannabis is just plain silly. My example of Prohibition in the States is extremely valid in that criminals will always seize an opportunity to make a fast, illegal buck. It's the illegality of the drug that's the problem with regard to crime and terrorism, not the drug itself. Anything on the black market can be funding terrorism at any moment.... ridiculous to lay the blame entirely on cannabis and really illustrates your crusade here.
As for violent crime, like I said before, alcohol has always been responsible for more death and violence in our society and yet you decide to just turn a blind eye to it. Cannabis is not in the same league as alcohol and even tobacco in terms of addictive qualities and danger to ones health so I think I have a totally valid point in comparing it to them, particularly when you rant on about the government and democracy all the time. They're legal and have always been more dangerous.... where's the logic in that?
Oh, and lets talk about friends and families lives that are being ruined by alcohol right now as we speak or indeed the staggering health bill that countries have to pay for lung disease and heart surgery or cancer. Don't start down that road because cannabis is small fry in comparison to those killers and yet there's no problem with them as long as the governement gets a big slice of peoples taxes in return. Don't bring ethics into this.
It's not about running around and taking advantage of the system by the way... talk about over dramatising your position: you're a reactionary individual who just likes to get a rise out of people rather than to discuss it sensibly. I'm all for free will in a society, particularly when it involves a naturally grown plant and a decision made by an adult with regard to their own recreational time, just like the intake of alcohol, which is a more damaging drug anway -for both the drinker and those around him/her. Let them flake out at home at the weekend rather than smash a few windows or peoples heads in while on drink or drugs. They're not going to damage me on the stuff.
Like I said, if it's legalised adults will have their own choice to make and the middle man - criminals- will be out of the picture and the state will be able to call the shots with regard to supply and taxation and all the rest. And I'll repeat, it's not even in the same league as alcohol, nevermind cocaine and heroin.
arsenalforever
24-09-2009, 10:45 AM
you lot need a spliff methinks:joker:
NettoSuperstar!
24-09-2009, 11:19 AM
I have been personally afftected by the negative aspects of cannabis and can understand Massive Trucks point of view a nd have seen the evidence first hand...cannabis isnt the safe drug people like to think it is...no drug is, particularly the genetically manufactured s*** like skunk. However legalising the drug (and not just cannabis, all drugs) could actually reduce crime, regulate what is being sold and reduce the ill affects that ripple around the supply and usage of it. Somewhere in the UK not sure where, they have been piloting supplying heroin addicts with heroin. The associated crime has been reduced in that area and helped more people to come off the drug. How we tackle drugs now isnt working...
I would only think it should be legalized for medical purposes, if it was legal it would be a lot safer and there are people in the world that would greatly benefit from the pain relief.
Makes me laugh when people only look at the positives then spin all the negatives of other drugs to make it seem even better
arsenalforever
24-09-2009, 12:31 PM
Makes me laugh when people only look at the positives then spin all the negatives of other drugs to make it seem even better
go smoke a big doobie tom
Nope, never smoked anything, don't plan to either :spin2:
Dr.Gonzo
24-09-2009, 02:35 PM
No, everything's better when you feel naughty doing it, plus, they'd tax the hell out of it.
Most schizophrenic arguments around Cannabis today come from super strenght skunk rubbish being on the increase. If it were legal production would be controlled. Cannabis would be correctly grown, and not just easy to grow, profitable crops with huge amounts of THC and **** all anti anxiety cannabinoids in the plant
the reason people are loosing minds is because this stuff is grown in attics in artificial, chemicaly catalysed conditions. simple!
ppl are gunna smoke it anyway. as long as their not breathing it into my bloody ears why should I care? take it out of the criminals hands! prohibition did not work with alcohol in the early 20th century!
and for those saying it will never be legalised, calafornia are looking VERY positively on the matter nowdays. just google news search 'marijuana' or 'marijuana california'
also - anybody else think MassiveTruck is ... how do I put this ... bat **** insane?
also can I just add that stuff like mushrooms and cannabis, despite what a certain person is saying HAVE been used as drugs for thousands of years in multiple cultures. that is a fact.
and also I dont think cannabis is completely safe. in the wrong lazy hands with a troubled mind, it can turn people into a recluse, however it can only get safer legalised. my mates get glass sprayed on the weed now by greedy dealers, and cr*p hash is notorious for containing glue, vinyl, and other binding agents.
Glass > Any possible 'study' on schizophrenia. A mass consumption of glass fibre because of prohibition in the long term could be disastrous. and the government isint warning people about it cause its illegal!
so the facts are PEOPLE CAN GET WEED ANYWAY
lets profit from them and stop filling our prison systems up with bloody stoners! lets grow the weed in safe, controlled conditions with high levels of all the essential anti anxiety cannabinoids that make up NATURAL weed!
sorry for ranting, but I used to be the target of many alcohol related assaults before, and the idea that my dad is a criminal because he gets a bit high to watch the footie and eat a curry is quiet frankly ... disgustin
Oh geez!!! Cannabis is not a naturally occurring plant. OK? It's a drug, made from hemp. Marijuana.
Oh. My. God. You know the whole reason the word 'cannabis' exists is because it's the genus name for the PLANT right?
You grow cannabis/marijuana/weed whatever you want to call it, pluck the buds off them when shes ripe, dry the buds out and smoke them
That. Is. That. You clearly have NO idea what you are talking about. I have WITNESSED A FRIEND grow and smoke the damn things this summer!
Cannabis is hemp. Hemp is Cannabis. You grow a plant and you get a drug [THC] you can smoke, with hemp as a by product, or vice versa, depending on how you want to look at it. The two are inseperable, not withstanding any possible artificial means of producing one and not the other.
And its a drug the MAJORITY of people smoke without problems or addictions. As a society our government is meant to cater to the majority aint it?
A few thousand may have there mental illness aggravated because of it, but a few MILLION have been seperated form dere familys and put in prison because of it!
Anybody who wants to keep it illegal is a moron. Fact. No room for debate. It becomes safer in the hands of regulation, just like while the perils of alcohol may still exist, most people are fine because they drink in pubs, and they dont import 90% proof milk cartons from a guy called johnny the axe down a back alley.
NettoSuperstar!
26-09-2009, 08:44 AM
Most schizophrenic arguments around Cannabis today come from super strenght skunk rubbish being on the increase. If it were legal production would be controlled. Cannabis would be correctly grown, and not just easy to grow, profitable crops with huge amounts of THC and **** all anti anxiety cannabinoids in the plant
the reason people are loosing minds is because this stuff is grown in attics in artificial, chemicaly catalysed conditions. simple!
ppl are gunna smoke it anyway. as long as their not breathing it into my bloody ears why should I care? take it out of the criminals hands! prohibition did not work with alcohol in the early 20th century!
and for those saying it will never be legalised, calafornia are looking VERY positively on the matter nowdays. just google news search 'marijuana' or 'marijuana california'
also - anybody else think MassiveTruck is ... how do I put this ... bat s*** insane?
I agree its skunk thats the problem
its a totally different drug, if you ask me. Just like how nobody considers a bottle of jaggermeister and a bottle of alcopop to be the same thing. But in an illegal marketplace dealers are not exactly mobile pick and mix coffee shops
No it should not be legalised.......In fact the taking of any recreational drugs should be criminmalised and dealt with in the most draconian way posible including execusions for repeat offenders.....Drug takers are losers and wasters.........The planet does not need them......
What an amazingly intricate way of putting a stereotype on twns of millions of people just because they are doing something you dont personally want to partake in.
You ARE aware that the finnancial and emotional constraints of locking up each and every person caught with a twig of weed for decades would result in far more damage than the actual drug could ever hope to achieve both on the user and on the taxpayer? ****, u really thought that one through lol
I suppose your not open to debate here, because your right, and we are all the waters. Actualy, theirs no debate. As long as free will exists your wrong.
setanta
26-09-2009, 11:51 AM
its a totally different drug, if you ask me. Just like how nobody considers a bottle of jaggermeister and a bottle of alcopop to be the same thing. But in an illegal marketplace dealers are not exactly mobile pick and mix coffee shops
No it should not be legalised.......In fact the taking of any recreational drugs should be criminmalised and dealt with in the most draconian way posible including execusions for repeat offenders.....Drug takers are losers and wasters.........The planet does not need them......
What an amazingly intricate way of putting a stereotype on twns of millions of people just because they are doing something you dont personally want to partake in.
You ARE aware that the finnancial and emotional constraints of locking up each and every person caught with a twig of weed for decades would result in far more damage than the actual drug could ever hope to achieve both on the user and on the taxpayer? ****, u really thought that one through lol
I suppose your not open to debate here, because your right, and we are all the waters. Actualy, theirs no debate. As long as free will exists your wrong.
Thank the Lord there's somebody else here with a rational and open mind on the subject! And you're right about the difference between naturally grown weed and the super skunk that's going about now: completely different smoke.
MassiveTruck
26-09-2009, 10:52 PM
It's official: you are the biggest wind up merchant on this forum who's posted a meandering essay that displays your total bias on the subject. There's so many of your points(?)that I want to respond to but I don't think you'll ever accept anything I say, no matter how I present my case. Your rhetoric and condemnation is astounding to me actually. Did you even read my comments, where I suggested that people should be given all the facts and dangers surrounding marijuana - just like they do with tobacco and alcohol- and that if the state did legalise it or decriminalise it to a certain extent , at least then it could be taxed and monitored.
Drug taking has always occurred throughout history; cannabis included! It's a naturally grown plant that's been used in many countries and civilisations. You continue to rant on about it not being natural which is so funny when the fecking thing is grown! They're from the same genus (Cannabis!) with hemp often the name used for all but hemp and cannabis are different strains of the plant ... you need to start reading about them before you start announcing that cannabis wasn't used centuries ago and isn't natural when it most definitely was and is.
As for cannabis funding terrorism and crime; criminals will use the black market for a steady cash flow and to lay the blame on cannabis is just plain silly. My example of Prohibition in the States is extremely valid in that criminals will always seize an opportunity to make a fast, illegal buck. It's the illegality of the drug that's the problem with regard to crime and terrorism, not the drug itself. Anything on the black market can be funding terrorism at any moment.... ridiculous to lay the blame entirely on cannabis and really illustrates your crusade here.
As for violent crime, like I said before, alcohol has always been responsible for more death and violence in our society and yet you decide to just turn a blind eye to it. Cannabis is not in the same league as alcohol and even tobacco in terms of addictive qualities and danger to ones health so I think I have a totally valid point in comparing it to them, particularly when you rant on about the government and democracy all the time. They're legal and have always been more dangerous.... where's the logic in that?
Oh, and lets talk about friends and families lives that are being ruined by alcohol right now as we speak or indeed the staggering health bill that countries have to pay for lung disease and heart surgery or cancer. Don't start down that road because cannabis is small fry in comparison to those killers and yet there's no problem with them as long as the governement gets a big slice of peoples taxes in return. Don't bring ethics into this.
It's not about running around and taking advantage of the system by the way... talk about over dramatising your position: you're a reactionary individual who just likes to get a rise out of people rather than to discuss it sensibly. I'm all for free will in a society, particularly when it involves a naturally grown plant and a decision made by an adult with regard to their own recreational time, just like the intake of alcohol, which is a more damaging drug anway -for both the drinker and those around him/her. Let them flake out at home at the weekend rather than smash a few windows or peoples heads in while on drink or drugs. They're not going to damage me on the stuff.
Like I said, if it's legalised adults will have their own choice to make and the middle man - criminals- will be out of the picture and the state will be able to call the shots with regard to supply and taxation and all the rest. And I'll repeat, it's not even in the same league as alcohol, nevermind cocaine and heroin.
I didn't want to come back here because you haven't got a clue what you're talking about but anyway here I am.
Let me put this straigh.
I DEMAND ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS I POSED. ANSWERS TO ALL THE QUESTIONS.
Is that clear?
Basically your tact is get angry, make accusations and hope in vain that the other person gets angry and responds in anger and then your lack of knowledge won't be an issue in the situations at all... right?
I really do love how you've avoided all the questions I asked you and how you twist it with quotes from wiki, word for word in order to make it look like you know what you're talking about.
Cannabis the drug and Cannabis the plant are 2 very different things.
YOU are using the pro-cannabis websites for information.
The Pro-cannabis websites use this rhetoric that it is only a plant over and over again and fail miserably because anybody who is:
intelligent enough
intellectual enough
will see right through the bullshit and say "oh, but a carrot or a cucumber don't do that to me".
So how can you pathetically insult somebody's intelligence and just call it a plant.
How many plants are in the world?
Is a cucumber plant poisonous? Is a cucumber plant predatory.
Let me ask you a simple straight forward question that you could easily answer
ARE SOME PLANTS DANGEROUS AND ARE SOME PLANTS NOT DANGEROUS?
Is that an easy question because you've avoided so many questions. Let me repeat it.
ARE SOME PLANTS DANGEROUS AND ARE SOME PLANTS NOT DANGEROUS?
It's a simple question isn't it. It's basically fooled the idiots on the pro-cannabis sites, the vast majority drug dealers, where you have to get your arguments from because you're too left wing but not experienced enough to get your own arguments.
Then you use words like biassed, reactionary and nonsense like that. Well the last time I checked, I've used actual facts and actual data and actual research and studies while you've just tried to start an argument and you know why you have?
Simple because you find it hard to believe that maybe, drugs are bad. Maybe, all of these people saying "hey, my son committed suicide because of Cannabis" could be right and the rise in schizophrenia (factors that you so happily ignore) are too much information for your pseudo-liberalised nonsense to stomach.
OK... Here are some natural things.
Black widow spiders, spears, knives, poison, man,
all of these things can kill me.
You use the word natural like it's your new best friend.
Do you know what else is natural? Infection, disease, viruses.
They all kill you.
Some plants, Plants like Hemp are also natural. When somebody dries it up and formulates it, it becomes cannabis and when smoked it becomes drug like. But oddly that's natural to you.
Here's a clue...
It's not natural to me and for most of the world!!
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Try to understand the semantics of plant and natural before you use it because the idiots that you copy from the internet for this information only fool people who can't think for themselves.
OK, there are numerous strains of hemp. It's still natural and still dangerous. Still used for terrorist activities and still the major provider to all the people in this country in order to fund terrorist activities. Most of it comes from Afghanistan who kill our soldiers with the arms they bought because we wanted to get stoned.
If you legalise it. (let me repeat this
IF you legalise it... it makes it a law, a law that can be exploited.
Like the human rights law is exploited. Much like many other laws are exploited.
If you make a drug part of a law then criminals will bloody well exploit it.
And let me add something else. You've got to be bat s*** idiotic and completely stupid to think that a law surrounded by a drug won't make life easier for criminals. You have to be flying high as a kite or have as much experience in your life as an embryo - that being none.
You have to be utterly stupid basically or just liberal on the basis of lifestyle and identity.
Like I said, if it's legalised adults will have their own choice to make and the middle man - criminals- will be out of the picture and the state will be able to call the shots with regard to supply and taxation and all the rest. And I'll repeat, it's not even in the same league as alcohol, nevermind cocaine and heroin.
Do you know gun licences in the USA are legal? Do you know how many people die there? Do you know there are laws in some countries in the world - do you know how many people suffer?
Did you know in California and other states and countries where they legalised marijuana, over night rehab clinics and rehab marketing and advertisements popped up. A goldmine industry for tonnes of people. Did you know that importing Cannabis into the USA to Cannabis friendly states has led to a rise in money laundering, cross bordering killings and rapes in order to get the drug into marijuana friendly states?
I mean, seriously, anybody and everybody knows that countries that legalise any drug do it to combat deficits in GDP since neighbouring states or countries are beating them with a far more efficient taxation system...
I though that was obvious... it isn't? Oh. News to me.
I mean, you know, in a world where the state controls it - I mean... in your view, the criminal is dead once we legalise drugs.
Wow... I can't believe that logic...
Carry on. I'm not stopping you to be liberal about it but really... read the news. Check out the studies and keep up to date.
It's quite straight forward stuff
but hey if you're for free will and liberty and all that, read up on the people who haven't recovered from hippy flashbacks from the sixties and live day and night from danger of flashbacks.
That's why we have laws against it. ;)
Straight forward and simple but this country lets you choose an identity. I'm not denying you that.
You be happy with that identity mate, but a word of advice... considering what you're saying here. Don't go and volunteer at any mental hospital anytime soon... You may not like what you see.
setanta
26-09-2009, 11:36 PM
It's official: you are the biggest wind up merchant on this forum who's posted a meandering essay that displays your total bias on the subject. There's so many of your points(?)that I want to respond to but I don't think you'll ever accept anything I say, no matter how I present my case. Your rhetoric and condemnation is astounding to me actually. Did you even read my comments, where I suggested that people should be given all the facts and dangers surrounding marijuana - just like they do with tobacco and alcohol- and that if the state did legalise it or decriminalise it to a certain extent , at least then it could be taxed and monitored.
Drug taking has always occurred throughout history; cannabis included! It's a naturally grown plant that's been used in many countries and civilisations. You continue to rant on about it not being natural which is so funny when the fecking thing is grown! They're from the same genus (Cannabis!) with hemp often the name used for all but hemp and cannabis are different strains of the plant ... you need to start reading about them before you start announcing that cannabis wasn't used centuries ago and isn't natural when it most definitely was and is.
As for cannabis funding terrorism and crime; criminals will use the black market for a steady cash flow and to lay the blame on cannabis is just plain silly. My example of Prohibition in the States is extremely valid in that criminals will always seize an opportunity to make a fast, illegal buck. It's the illegality of the drug that's the problem with regard to crime and terrorism, not the drug itself. Anything on the black market can be funding terrorism at any moment.... ridiculous to lay the blame entirely on cannabis and really illustrates your crusade here.
As for violent crime, like I said before, alcohol has always been responsible for more death and violence in our society and yet you decide to just turn a blind eye to it. Cannabis is not in the same league as alcohol and even tobacco in terms of addictive qualities and danger to ones health so I think I have a totally valid point in comparing it to them, particularly when you rant on about the government and democracy all the time. They're legal and have always been more dangerous.... where's the logic in that?
Oh, and lets talk about friends and families lives that are being ruined by alcohol right now as we speak or indeed the staggering health bill that countries have to pay for lung disease and heart surgery or cancer. Don't start down that road because cannabis is small fry in comparison to those killers and yet there's no problem with them as long as the governement gets a big slice of peoples taxes in return. Don't bring ethics into this.
It's not about running around and taking advantage of the system by the way... talk about over dramatising your position: you're a reactionary individual who just likes to get a rise out of people rather than to discuss it sensibly. I'm all for free will in a society, particularly when it involves a naturally grown plant and a decision made by an adult with regard to their own recreational time, just like the intake of alcohol, which is a more damaging drug anway -for both the drinker and those around him/her. Let them flake out at home at the weekend rather than smash a few windows or peoples heads in while on drink or drugs. They're not going to damage me on the stuff.
Like I said, if it's legalised adults will have their own choice to make and the middle man - criminals- will be out of the picture and the state will be able to call the shots with regard to supply and taxation and all the rest. And I'll repeat, it's not even in the same league as alcohol, nevermind cocaine and heroin.
I didn't want to come back here because you haven't got a clue what you're talking about but anyway here I am.
Let me put this straigh.
I DEMAND ANSWERS TO THE QUESTIONS I POSED. ANSWERS TO ALL THE QUESTIONS.
Is that clear?
Basically your tact is get angry, make accusations and hope in vain that the other person gets angry and responds in anger and then your lack of knowledge won't be an issue in the situations at all... right?
I really do love how you've avoided all the questions I asked you and how you twist it with quotes from wiki, word for word in order to make it look like you know what you're talking about.
Cannabis the drug and Cannabis the plant are 2 very different things.
YOU are using the pro-cannabis websites for information.
The Pro-cannabis websites use this rhetoric that it is only a plant over and over again and fail miserably because anybody who is:
intelligent enough
intellectual enough
will see right through the bullshit and say "oh, but a carrot or a cucumber don't do that to me".
So how can you pathetically insult somebody's intelligence and just call it a plant.
How many plants are in the world?
Is a cucumber plant poisonous? Is a cucumber plant predatory.
Let me ask you a simple straight forward question that you could easily answer
ARE SOME PLANTS DANGEROUS AND ARE SOME PLANTS NOT DANGEROUS?
Is that an easy question because you've avoided so many questions. Let me repeat it.
ARE SOME PLANTS DANGEROUS AND ARE SOME PLANTS NOT DANGEROUS?
It's a simple question isn't it. It's basically fooled the idiots on the pro-cannabis sites, the vast majority drug dealers, where you have to get your arguments from because you're too left wing but not experienced enough to get your own arguments.
Then you use words like biassed, reactionary and nonsense like that. Well the last time I checked, I've used actual facts and actual data and actual research and studies while you've just tried to start an argument and you know why you have?
Simple because you find it hard to believe that maybe, drugs are bad. Maybe, all of these people saying "hey, my son committed suicide because of Cannabis" could be right and the rise in schizophrenia (factors that you so happily ignore) are too much information for your pseudo-liberalised nonsense to stomach.
OK... Here are some natural things.
Black widow spiders, spears, knives, poison, man,
all of these things can kill me.
You use the word natural like it's your new best friend.
Do you know what else is natural? Infection, disease, viruses.
They all kill you.
Some plants, Plants like Hemp are also natural. When somebody dries it up and formulates it, it becomes cannabis and when smoked it becomes drug like. But oddly that's natural to you.
Here's a clue...
It's not natural to me and for most of the world!!
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Try to understand the semantics of plant and natural before you use it because the idiots that you copy from the internet for this information only fool people who can't think for themselves.
OK, there are numerous strains of hemp. It's still natural and still dangerous. Still used for terrorist activities and still the major provider to all the people in this country in order to fund terrorist activities. Most of it comes from Afghanistan who kill our soldiers with the arms they bought because we wanted to get stoned.
If you legalise it. (let me repeat this
IF you legalise it... it makes it a law, a law that can be exploited.
Like the human rights law is exploited. Much like many other laws are exploited.
If you make a drug part of a law then criminals will bloody well exploit it.
And let me add something else. You've got to be bat s*** idiotic and completely stupid to think that a law surrounded by a drug won't make life easier for criminals. You have to be flying high as a kite or have as much experience in your life as an embryo - that being none.
You have to be utterly stupid basically or just liberal on the basis of lifestyle and identity.
Like I said, if it's legalised adults will have their own choice to make and the middle man - criminals- will be out of the picture and the state will be able to call the shots with regard to supply and taxation and all the rest. And I'll repeat, it's not even in the same league as alcohol, nevermind cocaine and heroin.
Do you know gun licences in the USA are legal? Do you know how many people die there? Do you know there are laws in some countries in the world - do you know how many people suffer?
Did you know in California and other states and countries where they legalised marijuana, over night rehab clinics and rehab marketing and advertisements popped up. A goldmine industry for tonnes of people. Did you know that importing Cannabis into the USA to Cannabis friendly states has led to a rise in money laundering, cross bordering killings and rapes in order to get the drug into marijuana friendly states?
I mean, seriously, anybody and everybody knows that countries that legalise any drug do it to combat deficits in GDP since neighbouring states or countries are beating them with a far more efficient taxation system...
I though that was obvious... it isn't? Oh. News to me.
I mean, you know, in a world where the state controls it - I mean... in your view, the criminal is dead once we legalise drugs.
Wow... I can't believe that logic...
Carry on. I'm not stopping you to be liberal about it but really... read the news. Check out the studies and keep up to date.
It's quite straight forward stuff
but hey if you're for free will and liberty and all that, read up on the people who haven't recovered from hippy flashbacks from the sixties and live day and night from danger of flashbacks.
That's why we have laws against it. ;)
Straight forward and simple but this country lets you choose an identity. I'm not denying you that.
You be happy with that identity mate, but a word of advice... considering what you're saying here. Don't go and volunteer at any mental hospital anytime soon... You may not like what you see.
I can't answer to you anymore because you're quite literally the most patronising individual I've ever had the displeasure of talking to and if you scroll back to the start of this "discussion" you'll see that you are the one who's continually trying to goad and provoke with your tone, which is totally condescending and motivated by some immature need within you to belittle others with your irrational and biased methods of persuasion. Seriously, you're intention was never to have an intelligent conversation here: you were just keen on venting, with cannabis (a natural drug- a potato is still a potato when it's cooked! That's how mental your approach is at times) being your particular target right now. There's no balance in anything you say.
MassiveTruck
26-09-2009, 11:58 PM
I can't answer to you anymore because you're quite literally the most patronising individual I've ever had the displeasure of talking to and if you scroll back to the start of this "discussion" you'll see that you are the one who's continually trying to goad and provoke with your tone, which is totally condescending and motivated by some immature need within you to belittle others with your irrational and biased methods of persuasion. Seriously, you're intention was never to have an intelligent conversation here: you were just keen on venting, with cannabis (a natural drug- a potato is still a potato when it's cooked! That's how mental your approach is at times) being your particular target right now. There's no balance in anything you say.
No way.
You can't answer the questions and that's what it's all about. You have difficulty responding to the facts about the drug and that's all it's about.
You talk about goading and persuading and immaturity but you yourself resort to words like bias, reactionary in order to avoid sticking to topic and discussion.
It's nothing to do with me. You simply can't accept the facts relating to what drugs are and that this is a drug.
It's quite a straight forward response and in summary it is thus
Guns are legal - and they still kill.
Not all plants are good for you.
Not all natural things keep you alive.
That is the whole of your argument destroyed. This is why you can't accept it and I think you shouldn't come running to me with anger but the people who gave you this argument on the pro-cannabis websites.
I know there is nothing wrong in what I say because it's based upon facts.
I know there is a whole load of things wrong with your because you play with limited semantics. Like thus and I'll repeat:
Guns are legal - and they still kill.
Not all plants are good for you.
Not all natural things keep you alive.
And as I said, not everybody falls for the "oh it's natural, oh it's a plant oh if it's legal it will be better".
We don't fall for it because we have a brain and can think for ourselves since we don't need liberalism as an identity.
Answer the questions but I think the only solution you have is to discuss but discussing will mean abandoning your beliefs and those are staunchly stuck in a liberalised identity and identity is stuck in the cerebra as everything you are.
Like I said, then, above, I don't expect you to bide with me so that blows your persuade and goad argument - this is the identity you want.
But don't blame me that you can't respond. I offer you clear and concise views on the state of things as of today in the world we live in.
I don't just go to one person for views. I've read all studies, all pro and con websites and so I know all the liars, all the fools and all the cheats.
As I said, Carry on, but don't taint me with any of your brushes. Just don't respond.
setanta
27-09-2009, 12:13 AM
I can't answer to you anymore because you're quite literally the most patronising individual I've ever had the displeasure of talking to and if you scroll back to the start of this "discussion" you'll see that you are the one who's continually trying to goad and provoke with your tone, which is totally condescending and motivated by some immature need within you to belittle others with your irrational and biased methods of persuasion. Seriously, you're intention was never to have an intelligent conversation here: you were just keen on venting, with cannabis (a natural drug- a potato is still a potato when it's cooked! That's how mental your approach is at times) being your particular target right now. There's no balance in anything you say.
No way.
You can't answer the questions and that's what it's all about. You have difficulty responding to the facts about the drug and that's all it's about.
You talk about goading and persuading and immaturity but you yourself resort to words like bias, reactionary in order to avoid sticking to topic and discussion.
It's nothing to do with me. You simply can't accept the facts relating to what drugs are and that this is a drug.
It's quite a straight forward response and in summary it is thus
Guns are legal - and they still kill.
Not all plants are good for you.
Not all natural things keep you alive.
That is the whole of your argument destroyed. This is why you can't accept it and I think you shouldn't come running to me with anger but the people who gave you this argument on the pro-cannabis websites.
I know there is nothing wrong in what I say because it's based upon facts.
I know there is a whole load of things wrong with your because you play with limited semantics. Like thus and I'll repeat:
Guns are legal - and they still kill.
Not all plants are good for you.
Not all natural things keep you alive.
And as I said, not everybody falls for the "oh it's natural, oh it's a plant oh if it's legal it will be better".
We don't fall for it because we have a brain and can think for ourselves since we don't need liberalism as an identity.
Answer the questions but I think the only solution you have is to discuss but discussing will mean abandoning your beliefs and those are staunchly stuck in a liberalised identity and identity is stuck in the cerebra as everything you are.
Like I said, then, above, I don't expect you to bide with me so that blows your persuade and goad argument - this is the identity you want.
But don't blame me that you can't respond. I offer you clear and concise views on the state of things as of today in the world we live in.
I don't just go to one person for views. I've read all studies, all pro and con websites and so I know all the liars, all the fools and all the cheats.
As I said, Carry on, but don't taint me with any of your brushes. Just don't respond.
It's quite incredible the lengths with which you'll go to satisfy your ego and your beliefs when it concerns this subject. I've never suggested that all natural things are healthy for you. On the contrary, there are many living organisms or inanimate objects on this planet that may injure me, even the most seemingly harmless of things, but to attack me over this point is really akin to saying jumping is a natural activity that most people do from time to time but does that mean I'll jump off a cliff anytime soon or just fall awkwardly and break my neck? You'll literally do anything to prove that this drug has no place in today's society and is a major threat to the very fabric of our way of life when it's abundantly clear that there are many smoking it and enjoying it all over the world, and it has been around for hundreds and hundreds of years.
It's all about free choice for the individual. What I've said is that in comparison to drugs that are chemically altered and sold legally all over the world cannabis is really small fry and has been used for centuries, no matter how much you beg to differ. Your stats prove nothing other than marijuana can be associated on occassion with violent crime but I have argued that it's because of it's illegality that such cases pop up with it owing more to the arena in which the good is bought and sold. And your facts on the drug itself, it's effects and it's composition have been challenged on here by not just me,.
Yes, and I do have my own free will, as all people do and that's my issue here, particularly when it involves a naturally grown plant that people have been denied access to. If somebody wants to smoke it for recreational purposes than I have literally no problem with it, as long as they're not going to work everyday on the stuff which would obviously be grounds for dismissal anyway. With the proper monitoring and policies adapted, the sale, quality and laws regarding the substance can be controlled.
It's already been decriminalised in many countries- this is not a problem that you can just turn your back on or demonise. People will smoke it and everyone I know who does still goes to work and functions on the level that is required of a citizen in any country. The stats prove that it's nowhere near as dangerous as you would have us think, particularly when grown naturally. And of course it will take the money out of the criminals hands if it's legalised because, as it's natural, it can be grown anywhere really. Sure in some countries you're even allowed to grow one plant for personal use!
MassiveTruck is a joke. He mentions poisonous plants and things like guns that can kill you. Yes. All true. But Cannabis can not kill you. It is IMPOSSIBLE. There have been no recorded DIRECT deaths as a DIRECT result of the ingestion of the drug. The drug which is administered through the smoking of the buds of the CANNABIS PLANT. There is no such thing as a hemp plant you can create a Cannabis drug from. Call it a hemp plant, call it a dope plant, call it what you will, IT'S THE SAME THING, I KNOW PEOPLE WHO GROW THE THING AND I HAVE SMOKED IT ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS.
Your using the fact that not all natural things are good for you and some can kill you as an end unto itself. Cannabis is not great for your body, nothing smoked is, but what about your mind? The things about Cannabis people dont measure? How many people know the risks of smoking yet still make the decision to smoke Cannabis because it helps them relax? Good for them. They are here for a good life, not a long life. And as long as they are sticking to their couches, eating doritos and not getting agressive, what has it got to do with me? Nothing. Alcohol abusers on the other hand often create trouble. The biggest trouble in my area comes from gangs trafficking poor quality weed. If we could buy Cannabis in a pharmacy or other places of retail PEOPLE WOULD NOT GO TO DEALERS. Why would they? Even if they did not like tax they could just GROW THEIR OWN! No more poor quality weed. No more gangs making money from Cannabis. It would also be harder to get. Not sure has MassiveTruck noticed, but not a lot of dealers ask for ID.
As for the ''some can kill you'' part, nobody has ever overdosed on Cannabis. You may smoke too much and pass out, but toxicologicaly speaking, you cant OD on it. And im not sure on the figures, but contray to popular belief, most stoners dont get high to go out and play in traffic. In fact, you are more likely to stay in home or play it extra safe crossing roads.
In comparison to the other 'main' recreational drugs in the world Cannabis is by far the safest. This is a fact. Glass tinged bud and hash laced with adhesive are all by products of it's illegality. This is a fact. Mental illness catalysing super strenght Cannabis grown in artificial conditions could be controlled and even stopped if it were not for it's illegality. This is a fact.
Correct me if I am going a *teeny* bit overboard here, but anybody who sprouts the line ''Guns are legal - and they still kill.'' in a debate about CANNABIS probably needs there OWN mental health re evaluated. Quickly.
Glass bud, laced hash, the cost of the war on drugs to the government, and the cost, both emotional and financial, of seperating tens of thousands of innocent pot smokers from there familys, as well as the PROVEN medicinal benefits of the plant all OUTWEIGH any possible negative concequences the drug could POSSIBLY EVER have.
That is a FACT. If you cant do the simple guesstimate figures on prison system clogging, contamination, gangland trade and medicinal benefits versus stoners getting lazy and a few people having there mental illness aggrevated through abuse of the drug you really are a ****ing dope.
MOST PEOPLE smoke away with no problems. Just like most people drink with no problems. Governments are meant to CATER TO THE MAJORITY. If you think this is a health argument, go to jail, do not pass go and do not collect. It's simply spawned from racist agendas and oil/alcohol/tobacco lobbies, and very few governments have been brave enough to tackle it since.
If you think Cannabis was outlawed for your safety, your a ****ing idiot. Another fact. Nobody even knew the full risks versus rewards at the time of it's banning. It was a snap decision in the states based purely on culture phobia.
Here are three more inescapable, unarguable facts :
1. Prohibition did not work with Alcohol.
2. The war on drugs, which Cannabis plays a big part in, will never be won. People have free will. People want to smoke.
3. Decriminalization in Portugal WORKED. Check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvUgJEhQ5cY
Watch. It's not bias. It's not made up. It's not taking sides. It quotes exact reasons for Cannabis' illegality at different points in American history. And it is plain for all with an open mind who watch it to see that the drug/plant's prohibition has been a joke that has COST US MORE MONEY AND MORE INNOCENT PEOPLE IN JAIL THAN CAN EVER, EVER, EVER BE HARMED.
And once again, if you cant guesstimate the simple figures on that one, I worry for you.
Now kindly, with a cherry on the top, p**s off and let people smoke there buds.
Oh, you want another one? One broadcast on cable TV from two guy's who dont even like pot? Sure, here you go!...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_ZOwtMvvuM&feature=PlayList&p=CCBB7233E8C143EA&index=0&playnext=1
MassiveTruck
27-09-2009, 01:13 PM
Let me start by saying, if you accept my view on things, fine, I will disappear.
If you abuse and insult and make out you know better without evidence, then I will return.
Well I don't know if it's your lack of knowledge, your ignorance to facts or your inability to answer and respond to questions that makes me laugh or in fact the videos you post from the pro cannabis council - or maybe it's your need to hurl insults and abuse that makes me laugh a lot.
For instance Probe Eight, you basically repeat yourself about he same thing. It can be responded with the simple answer as -
it's propoganda you're posting that has no relevance to the global problem and ignores it as well.
Those videos for instance. They are biassed. You do know that all those pro-cannabis websites don't have an iota of evidence for what they say.
While Setanta you think that if you put yourself forward as smart or intelligent then you can get away from answering questions, mainly by belittling the person you are responding to.
You seem to think the mental health problem is due to hydroponics but that's not true either because most people take Cannabis for it's high THC content and therefore need these types of strains to feel sedated and basically escape from their lives. All Cannabis has these problems (see small number of links below)
You do know that Portugal only legalised drugs because of the massive drug problem they had (which was causing problems for the economy) so they decided to tax insurance companies and create rehab treatment and other ventures to make money from addicts. People in rehab in Portugal is through the roof by the way - and this due to decriminalising of drugs - so it makes it easier to be an addict? Get it.
Portugal has stopped targeting drug dealers and instead just shove people into rehab. They are still there, it's just their life is easier - which... erm... is what I just told you? Yeah.
Please, join the dots. It's not hard.
I mean seriously, criminals will disappear because users will buy their stock from shops... erm... yeah... that will happen, I am sure... if you're naive that is. Wow...!
Anyway, cutting a long story short... I might as well just post some links for you to respond to.
Before you read them, realise that some people, in fact the vast majority of people have a life and they don't need drugs and you forget about the peopel who have families, friends and health systems who have to struggle due to drugs.
Go for it. It's liberty isn't it - not mine but at least I care. That's the difference between me and you.
Reply to these. Enjoy.
Cannabis alters DNA, lowers immunity, heightens disease risks
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cannabis-alters-human-dna-increases-cancer-risk-study/477395/1
Schizophrenia link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2407027.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4486548.stm
Marijuana withdrawal symptom
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/display/article/10168/54701?verify=0
Rise in drug deaths due to Cannabis rise
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-402939/Cannabis-downgrade-coincides-drug-deaths-rise.html
Problems with drug dealers and rise in crime due to downgrading
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3641562/Cannabis-smokers-need-to-be-locked-up.html
Cannabis could kill thousands
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2995275.stm
Cannabis use, hundreds of deaths a year
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1445718/Cannabis-use-causes-hundreds-of-deaths-a-year-coroner-warns.html
Cannabis users five times more prone to violence
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cannabis-alters-human-dna-increases-cancer-risk-study/477395/1
Drug use spirals - review drug laws
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23369774-review-of-cannabis-laws-as-drug-fuelled-violence-spirals.do;jsessionid=4FD8DE71E58F8F8E6C944CBF228B DB97
Portugal's (and other country's) soft use on cannabis causes problems elsewhere
http://www.lca-uk.org/news/shownewsarticle.php?articleid=14736
Problems in dealing with drug related problems
http://www.springerlink.com/content/m72755578r724363/
Decriminalisation in portugal leading to lowering of drug use is due to fiddling of statististics
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html
Portugal's rise in drug treatment rockets due to decriminilization
http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/html.cfm/index35987EN.html
Marijuana withdrawal and nightmares
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=7a9ff5eb915f28d357ec88f618e5557b&t=95618
Rise in rehab due to cannabis downgrade
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5151760/Cannabis-downgrade-saw-drug-treatment-need-double.html
Problems with studying cannabis due to strains and mental health issues and side effects
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld199798/ldselect/ldsctech/151/15107.htm#a12
Schizophrenia/psychosis and cannabis
http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/content/?id=30
Problems with drug treatment with sex offenders due to legalisation in California
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/us/27parole.html?hp
Drug trafficking in Canada leads to Murder capital (take note of legalisation effects here!!)
http://www.vancouversun.com/farming+community+becomes+Canada+murder+capital/1968138/story.html
Drug trouble in Canada's Paradise
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8231534.stm
Marijuana and testicular cancer
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/16/health/he-marijuana16
Cannabis and suicide
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/letters/article3953555.ece
http://www.abc.net.au/health/minutes/stories/s473102.htm
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2451150/Driver-let-teen-burn-to-death.html
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,23727652-5007061,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/405259.stm
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/154/154247_cannabis_blamed_for_students_suicide.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1156893.ece
http://www.eastbourneherald.co.uk/hailsham-news/Depressed-mum-hanged-herself-while.5260493.jp
http://www.lep.co.uk/news/Hanged-man-had-suffered-depression.5276374.jp
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23411179-mother-blames-cannabis-for-suicide-of-promising-violinist-daughter.do;jsessionid=F2F689360D4FEA2718C4FE611DD B7A19
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1562326/One-cannabis-joint-led-to-our-girls-suicide.html
Canada's Drug Crime rate due to decriminilising
http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/canada/2009/09/17/10955301.html
Drug rehab for kids on cannabis
http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/eadt/news/story.aspx?brand=EADOnline&category=News&tBrand=EADOnline&tCategory=xDefault&itemid=IPED24%20May%202009%2019%3A20%3A48%3A330
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/5351020/Children-treated-for-cannabis-misuse-at-rate-of-150-a-week.html
http://www.wellsphere.com/wellpage/marijuana-rehab
Addiction
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/04/the-cannabis-closet-addiction.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/caitlin_moran/article5946633.ece
Mental Illness
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/mental-illness-soars-in-uks-skunk-hotspots-397449.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-410765/8-10-mentally-ill-patients-heavy-cannabis-users.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080602160845.htm
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin/gnmRouteur/showabstract.pl?a=720114&cid=317?loggedIn=false&lecture=1
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin/gnmRouteur/showabstract.pl?a=695543&cid=317?loggedIn=false&lecture=1
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin/gnmRouteur/showabstract.pl?a=472914&cid=317?loggedIn=false&lecture=1
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?C=94252400836191319444&xml=/headlines/2008/06_june/week_23/cannabis_use_linked_to_adolescent_prodromal_sympto ms_of_psychosis.xml
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?xml=/headlines/2007/08/week_32/20070803cannabis_increases_psychosis_risk.xml
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?xml=/headlines/2007/05/week_20/20070514cannabis_use_may_prompt_transition_to_psyc hosis.xml
http://www.primarypsychiatry.com/aspx/ArticleDetail.aspx?articleid=2038
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/cannabis-an-apology-440730.html
http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/content/?id=27
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1B-4P8SSFV-13&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=6975b0a51f9ca7dfeda98f9ab41ded86
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-471106/Smoking-just-cannabis-joint-raises-danger-mental-illness-40.html
http://www.southendstandard.co.uk/news/southend/4414773.Man_died_after_being_restrained_by_police/
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?C=68384399760077662037&xml=/headlines/2009/06_june/week_23/headline4.xml&em=robert.pires@ntlworld.com
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/66/1/95?home
Dutch problems with Cannabis
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ilyOg9TbJFHHqnSpG82yJ8piAGlg
California problems with cannabis
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/21/opinion/oe-maher21
Drug dependency in newborns
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/one-in-500-babies-now-born-drug-dependent-1693502.html
Causal association between cannabis and psychosis
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/184/2/110
Slavery and Cannabis
http://www.newstatesman.com/law-and-reform/2008/11/cannabis-farms-children
Cannabis overdose
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/2009/05/22/primitives-star-steve-dullaghan-killed-by-too-much-cannabis-92746-23684609/2/
Pharmaceutical, clinically developed drug so no need to smoke cannabis for MS
http://www.pharmafocus.com/cda/focusH/1,2109,21-0-0-MAY_2009-focus_news_detail-0-492783,00.html
Skunk Knife murderer
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23667963-knife-murderer-made-paranoid-by-skunk-is-jailed-for-20-years.do;jsessionid=4B4F0428A249FE7C6FD6DE77E0635A 80
Psychotic Cannabis user knifes policeman
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23661166-details/Psychotic+cannabis+user+stabbed+policeman+to+death/article.do
Cannabis induced driver leaves girlfriend for dead
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2451150/Driver-let-teen-burn-to-death.html
More on pharmaceutical use of cannabis to stop "recreational use"
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/05/what-happens-when-pot-isnt-pot-anymore.html
Man stabbed to death
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1190606/Stabbed-death-confronting-drug-gang-supplied-schoolboy-brother.html
Portugal fall in crime rate is due to decriminilisation - problems still rife
http://www.addictionpro.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=440B847037BC4AFA8B377E381E9C548D&nm=&type=Blog&mod=View+Topic&mid=67D6564029914AD3B204AD35D8F5F780&tier=7&id=3DC20617AD9A4539AFB52AD812DC3644
Although the report does not make this case itself, perhaps the most radical interpretation of comparative international data like this is that the specific penalties (or lack thereof) in place have less impact on drug use patterns (for better or worse) than we’re often inclined to think …
Drug peddling
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/4428662.Brighton_children_used_by_drug_dealers_to_ deliver_cocaine_by_bicycle/
"recreational" effects on family
http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-express/news/2488567/Son-pleaded-with-dope-dealer-father
Drug enduced fatal accident
http://austriantimes.at/index.php?id=14004
Cannabis used as rape drug
http://www.3news.co.nz/News/NationalNews/Man-accused-of-raping-13-year-old-girl-remanded-until-June-26/tabid/423/articleID/106063/cat/64/Default.aspx
*Sigh* Wrong again. Yes, most people smoke for the THC, but regardless of how much THC content is contained within Cannabis [I assume you have given up your argument that the plant and the drug are two different things?] you also need counter balancing levels of cannabidiol and other anti-anxiety agents that make up the Cannabis plant and her buds. It is this lack of these agents by artificially grown, as a result of illegality, Cannabis that makes users paranoid. I do not consider artificially grown Cannabis and natural Cannabis to be equal. Just like how I don't compare Heroin to Khat.
So once again, there you have it. Legal Cannabis = people allowed to grow it = safer Cannabis [I notice you have also once again ignored my contamination arguments, as well as the clogging of the prison system and drain on resources in other vital areas, and the fact that the majority of smokers do so with zero trouble, which all combined crush virtually every link you have posted].
And yes, I feel up for insulting you. YOU insult me. Anybody who tries to tell me some of my friends are criminals for choosing to smoke Cannabis offend me.
What you don't realize when you are giving these links is that your links are also biased. Mine cater to the majority. You are posting news stories from virtually every negative Cannabis instance you can find. I could do the same for food packaging. I am sure if I were driven by insane forces as you are, I could come up with 44 or so links of instances of dumb people being killed by trying to open a can of baked beans or tuna.
Of COURSE if you search Cannabis suicide, and Cannabis rape drug, and Cannabis mental illness, your going to get those results. Because bad people in the world use Cannabis. No point denying that. But the good far outweigh it. Your talking about dozens of cases of Cannabis rape, and Cannabis suicide, versus the MILLIONS who use it daily as a relaxation agent, and whom have done so THROUGHOUT HISTORY! Something else you denied earlier, that you now ignore. As you are obviously in this for a miserable little argument and know nothing about the rich culture that surrounds the drug and the plant.
More people have died as a direct result of water overdose [too much water, yes, it is possible] than Cannabis. Just goes to show, eh?
I mean seriously, criminals will disappear because users will buy their stock from shops... erm... yeah... that will happen, I am sure... if you're naive that is. Wow...!
Crminals using CANNABIS as a currency in this country. Obviously, criminals will always exist.
Before you read them, realise that some people, in fact the vast majority of people have a life and they don't need drugs and you forget about the peopel who have families, friends and health systems who have to struggle due to drugs.
The vast majority of people on this planet use drugs. Like it or not. Be it Cannabis, alcohol, cigarettes or prescription pain killers. People use drugs.
What about the MILLIONS of people who have to struggle in cages made for rapists and murderers because of Cannabis's legal status? The millions of people who all easily outweigh each and every link you posted? Again, it's simple common sense guesstimate.
If you read and studied each and every one of those links, I will eat my hat. Of course you did not, we all know it, but your not going to admit it. And that is fine. Feel you are justified for trying to search every negative cannabis instance possible on Google and ask yourself ... do those figures measure up to the millions throughout human history and up to this point in time who smoke Cannabis, even those on a daily basis, without problems?
Of course not. Not even close. Because it's simple math. Fact.
MassiveTruck
27-09-2009, 04:05 PM
You're not as clued up as you would like to think about the subject. In fact, you're not even close to be honest.
Firstly, your links prove nothing. Just a flimsy celeb led publicity campaign aimed at people with an IQ below 80 filled with abuse at the government. Idiotic at best.
LOL, I loved the *sigh* as though you knew what you were talking about but then you failed so badly on explaining it. PMSL :laugh2:
You should really consider reading up on CBD, Cannabidiols, Canniboids and also THC too. Really know the difference man. Seriously.
The plant and the drug are the same and I haven't given up.
Have you given up attempting to respond to the almost hundreds of claims I have made? I guess you have.
*Sigh* Wrong again. Yes, most people smoke for the THC, but regardless of how much THC content is contained within Cannabis [I assume you have given up your argument that the plant and the drug are two different things?] you also need counter balancing levels of cannabidiol and other anti-anxiety agents that make up the Cannabis plant and her buds.
This doesn't make any sense. People who want to smoke Cannabis will want to smoke it for whatever purposes they want to. In most cases and as I stated to you, it is for the THC content and the reason for this is to get sedated.
Basically - the higher the THC content, the higher the sedation.
The lack of THC and the higher the CBD - means no sedation. How many people looking for Cannabis do you know who don't want to be sedated.
Might I add, you appear to be ignoring all the claims I made above by going off on a tangent about a subject you appear to have not even a vague understanding? You appear to be making this up on the spot, just by picking up the words from somewhere.
It is this lack of these agents by artificially grown, as a result of illegality, Cannabis that makes users paranoid. I do not consider artificially grown Cannabis and natural Cannabis to be equal. Just like how I don't compare Heroin to Khat.
Again, you are wrong. People who have smoked Cannabis have had paranoia, mental health problems for years. Look at my links, visit my links above and you'll find it very hard to argue against this.
So once again, there you have it. Legal Cannabis = people allowed to grow it = safer Cannabis [I notice you have also once again ignored my contamination arguments, as well as the clogging of the prison system and drain on resources in other vital areas, and the fact that the majority of smokers do so with zero trouble, which all combined crush virtually every link you have posted].
Nothing has been ignored if you even attempted to look at the links. All the responses are there in cold hard studies and reviews and statistics. Fascinating how you claim I have ignored somehting when I haven't.
Why do you think Cannabis is safe? It's been a problematic drug for years. It is the THC that causes problems.
Why have you not visited the links
Why have you ignored all the links I posted?
Why are you stating that I ignored you when you have not attempted to visit the countless amounts of evidence I have given you?
And yes, I feel up for insulting you. YOU insult me. Anybody who tries to tell me some of my friends are criminals for choosing to smoke Cannabis offend me.
No, you're only insulting because you only see your own argument on something and fail to answer back. You did the same in Big Brother threads, ignoring what somebody says and just beating to the sound of your own drum and now you do that here too. Ignoring all the evidence provided. I have lots more evidence too.
What you don't realize when you are giving these links is that your links are also biased. Mine cater to the majority.
Biassed? BIASSED? are you joking? LOL, they are about Cannabis and countless amounts of data regarding it. Oh what a Kop out. I just counter argued you and your only response is bias. Well done.
You are posting news stories from virtually every negative Cannabis instance you can find. I could do the same for food packaging. I am sure if I were driven by insane forces as you are, I could come up with 44 or so links of instances of dumb people being killed by trying to open a can of baked beans or tuna.
The news stories are alongside academic publications, numerous amounts of research and data and evidence.
But erm... as per usual, you've decided to ignore all that haven't you.
Of COURSE if you search Cannabis suicide, and Cannabis rape drug, and Cannabis mental illness, your going to get those results.
Isn't that because Cannabis causes mental illness, is used as a date rape drug and people have committed suicided under cannabis? It's quite straight forward.
Because bad people in the world use Cannabis. No point denying that. But the good far outweigh it.
Fantastic argument. Because people are using cannabis to sell arms, drugs - let's forget about that, because people are getting stoned. Very good argument... NOT!
Your talking about dozens of cases of Cannabis rape, and Cannabis suicide, versus the MILLIONS who use it daily as a relaxation agent, and whom have done so THROUGHOUT HISTORY!
Erm. there is a stat where it states that 9 in 10 regular Cannabis users suffer from paranoia and other mental distress on a regular basis, but you'd prefer to ignore that and the suicides and the life long mental illness.
All chronic users suffer from life long problems by the way. But you chose to ignore that.
Wonderful how you ignore so much... How odd...
Something else you denied earlier, that you now ignore. As you are obviously in this for a miserable little argument and know nothing about the rich culture that surrounds the drug and the plant.
You mean the drug that causes mental illness and mental distress to most users.
More people have died as a direct result of water overdose [too much water, yes, it is possible] than Cannabis. Just goes to show, eh?
LOL... yeah, let's ban water but let's not ban Cannabis that causes so many problems in the world because it's so cheap to produce.
Crminals using CANNABIS as a currency in this country. Obviously, criminals will always exist.
Err... yeah, here is contradiction number 4354354386 by you. If criminals remain, they will continue to peddle the drug at a cheaper price? And can avoid legalities and getting caught like in Portugal? Yeah... get the picture?
Join the dots?
The vast majority of people on this planet use drugs. Like it or not. Be it Cannabis, alcohol, cigarettes or prescription pain killers. People use drugs.
Alcohol not included and pain killers that are legal - the vast majority do not use drugs.
You're not clutching at straws... ok?
What about the MILLIONS of people who have to struggle in cages made for rapists and murderers because of Cannabis's legal status? The millions of people who all easily outweigh each and every link you posted? Again, it's simple common sense guesstimate.
They fuel an industry that exploits people by selling a drug to them that is part of the same system that rapists and murderers exist in.
Away from your stoner paradise - try and see beyond that. At least visit the links and accept that it is causing a huge problem instead of denying the very much obvious?
If you read and studied each and every one of those links, I will eat my hat. Of course you did not, we all know it, but your not going to admit it. And that is fine.
LOL - I have man. Of course I have. I have all these saved as well as hundreds more backing up the fact that this drug is a mess to anybody who uses it. Those links are just a fraction of what I have saved :spin2:
Tell you the truth, regarding the facts around this drug, I'm just getting warmed up.
Feel you are justified for trying to search every negative cannabis instance possible on Google and ask yourself ...
It's because people suffer from the drug dude. No smoke, no fire... people in mental hospitals suffer too... Go on. Check it out. Join a mental health charity. See what they have to cope with... Go for it.
do those figures measure up to the millions throughout human history and up to this point in time who smoke Cannabis, even those on a daily basis, without problems?
You mean the millions who had to smoke it as opposed to the BILLIONS upon BILLIONS who don't have to because they don't want to risk the mental health problems in their lives?
Of course not. Not even close. Because it's simple math. Fact.
You mean the maths that only a tiny teeny tiny small fraction of itsy bitsy people smoke it every day? Everybody else have only smoked it during a phase in their life?
You do know that people stop smoking it in their early 20s. There are only a small number of people who smoke it regularly and most of those are under the pull of a drug dealer and addicted and lost in a world.
Seriously dude, people commit suicide over it but because your precious friends smoke it (and they are criminals, because they're committing a crime... makes complete sense - if you commit a crime, you're a criminal) you think it's fine.
ANYWAY... Study the above links... see them, study them instead of saying "oooh, people want to relax" - it's not relax, it's a sedations that affects the neurological balance inside a person... but you ignore all that. Ignore absolutely everything you read.
Let it be in your hands the next person who suffers.
Are you ready to accept the responsibility of people who suffer for all their life at the hands of this drug for what you say?
Have you been in a mental health hospital and seen people whose lives are irreversible due to the effects this drug has had on them?
Come on... 8 out of 10 patients in mental health hospitals are now due to Cannabis smoking... some of their own making too...
Final point - read the links. Work it out. Understand the studies and publications. UNDERSTAND THE CHEMICALS BEHIND MARIJUANA instead of just MAKING IT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am sickened that you are so gripped by your pride that you don't care for people who suffer but I've seen so many people who put their pride and ego before suffering because they have flimsy beliefs, it's nothing new to me.:laugh2::laugh2:
MassiveTruck
27-09-2009, 04:15 PM
I really can't continue with this.
Seriously, it's not the simple fact you don't know what you're talking about but you try and make out you do.
If you had the slightest bit, the tiniest bit of consideration and compassion for people in mental health institutions and the people dying from terrorism, maybe you'd think before you posted something but this is ridiculous - I feel quite stupid having to argue something so bleeding obvious.
Carry on.
Maybe go to Portugal and see all the Cannabis sufferers in the rehab clinics the Government is making millions in tax from.
Ramsay
27-09-2009, 05:56 PM
man
this is a LONG page
im smoking a doob right now
its good
setanta
27-09-2009, 06:18 PM
MassiveTruck, I've never once belittled you; I have merely criticized your totally biased approach to this argument, that illustrates your inability to actually consider other points of view regarding a subject that will literally never disappear - as much as you would like it to - and instead you continue to treat us to various webpages that prove nothing other than the fact that any drug, or anything in life for that matter can be misused or abused, particularly by teenagers or people with a predisposition towards mental illness!
In many of your websites they use adolescents to highlight the drugs dangers but sure that's true in all cases with regard to children at a crucial moment in their development. And as for the studies on schizophrenia, the scientists themselves have said that they Can't Prove that it's the cause of the illness (and we're talking about large amounts of the drug being smoked over a long amount of time anyway) when all evidence points to the fact that marijuana causes no physiological addiction. This is about psychological addiction when we all know that unwell people will develop many unhealthy habits in an attempt to shield themselves from the realities of their lives.
But as you're in the habit of using "facts" to highlight the dangers of the drug, here's a PUBLISHED study that was made only two years ago that highlights the inherent hyprocrisy of condemning a drug like Cannabis when there are so many others, including legal drugs, that are far worse for an individual.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6474053.stm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17760130/
This is a genuine study and not just a rant made by one scientist or journalist.
Excellent points. And legalisation could prevent Cannabis from getting into the hands of vulnerable young minds. Of course many will still find a way, but at present it is a statistical fact that Cannabis is easier to obtain in America than beer for under 18's because, once again, drug dealers tend not to ask for ID.
MassiveTruck
27-09-2009, 08:51 PM
Maybe go to Portugal and see all the Cannabis sufferers in the rehab clinics the Government is making millions in tax from.
Maybe go to California, and take the Cannabis straight out of the hands of people suffering from a range of ailments, whose only grace and relief is Cannabis. Go on. Save the world. You hero, you.
I am not responsible for people smoking Cannabis going insane. The fact is, and make no mistake about it, this is a fact, anybody who wants Cannabis can get it. It's not hard. So make it legal, make it safer, and make it cleaner.
They fuel an industry that exploits people by selling a drug to them
In addition to failing to respond to the actual FACT I had laid out that stated more people benefit from Cannabis, even on a recreational basis, than suffer from it, you also just provided an argument for legalization. Shot in the foot. Well done.
But wait ... whats this ... you think people would STILL risk going to dealers for cheaper Cannabis when they could GROW IT FOR FREE?
Says it all.
All chronic users suffer from life long problems by the way. But you chose to ignore that.
Yes. Because it is not a verified scientific fact. ALL users? Bit of a bold claim, even by your standards.
BUT here is what kills poor old MassiveTruck off...
You should really consider reading up on CBD, Cannabidiols, Canniboids and also THC too. Really know the difference man. Seriously.
CBD is Cannabidiol. THC and CBD are both Cannabinoids [as opposed to 'Canniboids']. Yet you mention all three as being EXCLUSIVE of one another. You really have no idea, do you?
The lack of THC and the higher the CBD - means no sedation.
Wrong. High CBD creates Indica strains of the plant. Known for a high sedation and body stone. As opposed to Sativa strains where THC is more dominant, characterized by a more 'trippy' head high.
There are strains of Cannabis out there that provide no sedation at all. But what does it matter. You had no idea what CBD was to begin with, considering you mentioned it separately to both Cannabidiol and a Cannabinoid, even though CBD IS Cannabidiol and Cannabidiol IS A CANNABINOID.
And then you tell ME in the same sentence you formed around your errors to read up on it?
Your dead in the water. Post all the meaningless s*** you want back. Rational people still know a legal Cannabis market is safer than an illegal one. The amount of people who develop problems from Cannabis is a tiny fraction of the overall userbase. Most of these problems come from Cannabis that could be ended if it were made legal. A ****ing meerkat could understand that logic.
Enough of this mess. I am no longer wasting time arguing with a bully who loves to goad others into arguments to then make them feel terrible about themselves. Your remarks about sedation, THC and the other components of Cannabis prove to me you have no idea what you are talking about and you are currently in the process of schooling yourself about Cannabis just to make some people feel terrible about themselves.
So go ahead, post ANYTHING you like back. It matters not. Not after this...
You should really consider reading up on CBD, Cannabidiols, Canniboids and also THC too. Really know the difference man. Seriously.
So we have four separate things, all of which I should know the difference between?
Now, over to your precious Wikipedia...
Cannabidiol, also known as CBD, is a cannabinoid found in Cannabis.
Oh dear me! Your cover has just been blown! Post back with what you like, wind up merchant, but you have NO idea what you are talking about! Why should anybody bother to reply to your points? Your finished!
LOL! Now thats put me in the mood for a smoke!
Hmm... You actually think people will grow enough Cannabis for themselves? That's illogical and not possible... That's why crime will rise 10 fold without it.
How many plants for how many spliffs? Do you see how it's impossible?
This is why crime will rise as crime (with the evidence I have shown you) has risen in Portugal, Canada, US and all across Europe to traffic in drugs to countries where it is legal...
Yeah? Come on...
I have given evidence for this but you're trying to make out there is truth to this.
I would love to know if you can actually reply to everything I posted instead of manipulating tit bits to make it sound like I got something wrong. Is that possible?
I mean, you just twisted something I said and said I was wrong (when I wasn't) and then said you're going to get a smoke.
Anywhere, here is a link regarding THC and the sedating effect to rubbish your misinformed view about sedation.
Enjoy... (I doubt)
This is from a BBC documentary. This is a showing a plant where they are removing "good products" from "certain cannabis plants" which have have Cannabinoid properties beneficial to medicinal gains.
You should really read up. READ UP... because in the real world, (away from the idiots writing on Wiki) people will laugh at you totally.
Read those links I posted. This is free advice. Nobody else will give it you.
Watch from 1:51 - this was on the BBC a while back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa6dX1Ok8rY&NR
Take note he talks about run of the mill Cannabis strains with anti-psychotic properties. Google this guy - he has studied Cannabis for years. Move on to where he is
"as recreational cannabis plants are grown for higher THC content so their CBD content (medicinal properties!!!!) falls, simply because the plant is unable (operative word!!) to produce high level of both"
Read up.
Free advice. Because you haven't got a clue.
You have sidestepped a lot of what I have said and I have responded to you with evidence. Clear as it is.
Your views on California are flawed! Utterly.
MassiveTruck
27-09-2009, 08:54 PM
MassiveTruck, I've never once belittled you; I have merely criticized your totally bias approach to this argument, that illustrates your inability to actually consider other points of view regarding a subject that will literally never disappear - as much as you would like it to - and instead you continue to treat us to various webpages that prove nothing other than the fact that any drug, or anything in life for that matter can be misused or abused, particularly by teenagers or people with a predisposition towards mental illness!
In many of your websites they use adolescents to highlight the drugs dangers but sure that's true in all cases with regard to children at a crucial moment in their development. And as for the studies on schizophrenia, the scientists themselves have said that they Can't Prove that it's the cause of the illness (and we're talking about large amounts of the drug being smoked over a long amount of time anyway) when all evidence points to the fact that marijuana causes no physiological addiction. This is about psychological addiction when we all know that unwell people will develop many unhealthy habits in an attempt to shield themselves from the realities of their lives.
But as you're in the habit of using "facts" to highlight the dangers of the drug, here's a PUBLISHED study that was made only two years ago that highlights the inherent hyprocrisy of condemning a drug like Cannabis when there are so many others, including legal drugs, that are far worse for an individual.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6474053.stm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17760130/
This is a genuine study and not just a rant made by one scientist or journalist.
You do realise that drug classification system was laughed upon and Cannabis was deemed Class B again right?
There you go.
Check my evidence for crime rates and rehab rise where Cannabis is legalised.
Seriously... it's all there. Not too far to look.
Lots of links - loads of links about it.
MassiveTruck
27-09-2009, 08:56 PM
Excellent points. And legalisation could prevent Cannabis from getting into the hands of vulnerable young minds. Of course many will still find a way, but at present it is a statistical fact that Cannabis is easier to obtain in America than beer for under 18's because, once again, drug dealers tend not to ask for ID.
Knowing this you want it legalised?
Is it because you're (like I said) only interested in your pride and ego rather than the suffering of so many.
Seriously, check up the suicide and mental illness of young minds and how experts and the BMJ have said we're sitting on a mental health timebomb with our youth.
Funny how, you have no faith in our government when Cannabis is illegal BUT
...You have faith in our government when Cannabis is legal...
Can you see how I see so many contradictions.
MassiveTruck
27-09-2009, 08:57 PM
I just want to post this again so you can read up on the things you know little about.
Answers to your replies and also the misunderstandings in your beliefs are below.
Let me start by saying, if you accept my view on things, fine, I will disappear.
If you abuse and insult and make out you know better without evidence, then I will return.
Well I don't know if it's your lack of knowledge, your ignorance to facts or your inability to answer and respond to questions that makes me laugh or in fact the videos you post from the pro cannabis council - or maybe it's your need to hurl insults and abuse that makes me laugh a lot.
For instance Probe Eight, you basically repeat yourself about he same thing. It can be responded with the simple answer as -
it's propoganda you're posting that has no relevance to the global problem and ignores it as well.
Those videos for instance. They are biassed. You do know that all those pro-cannabis websites don't have an iota of evidence for what they say.
While Setanta you think that if you put yourself forward as smart or intelligent then you can get away from answering questions, mainly by belittling the person you are responding to.
You seem to think the mental health problem is due to hydroponics but that's not true either because most people take Cannabis for it's high THC content and therefore need these types of strains to feel sedated and basically escape from their lives. All Cannabis has these problems (see small number of links below)
You do know that Portugal only legalised drugs because of the massive drug problem they had (which was causing problems for the economy) so they decided to tax insurance companies and create rehab treatment and other ventures to make money from addicts. People in rehab in Portugal is through the roof by the way - and this due to decriminalising of drugs - so it makes it easier to be an addict? Get it.
Portugal has stopped targeting drug dealers and instead just shove people into rehab. They are still there, it's just their life is easier - which... erm... is what I just told you? Yeah.
Please, join the dots. It's not hard.
I mean seriously, criminals will disappear because users will buy their stock from shops... erm... yeah... that will happen, I am sure... if you're naive that is. Wow...!
Anyway, cutting a long story short... I might as well just post some links for you to respond to.
Before you read them, realise that some people, in fact the vast majority of people have a life and they don't need drugs and you forget about the peopel who have families, friends and health systems who have to struggle due to drugs.
Go for it. It's liberty isn't it - not mine but at least I care. That's the difference between me and you.
Reply to these. Enjoy.
Cannabis alters DNA, lowers immunity, heightens disease risks
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cannabis-alters-human-dna-increases-cancer-risk-study/477395/1
Schizophrenia link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2407027.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4486548.stm
Marijuana withdrawal symptom
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/display/article/10168/54701?verify=0
Rise in drug deaths due to Cannabis rise
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-402939/Cannabis-downgrade-coincides-drug-deaths-rise.html
Problems with drug dealers and rise in crime due to downgrading
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3641562/Cannabis-smokers-need-to-be-locked-up.html
Cannabis could kill thousands
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2995275.stm
Cannabis use, hundreds of deaths a year
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1445718/Cannabis-use-causes-hundreds-of-deaths-a-year-coroner-warns.html
Cannabis users five times more prone to violence
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cannabis-alters-human-dna-increases-cancer-risk-study/477395/1
Drug use spirals - review drug laws
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23369774-review-of-cannabis-laws-as-drug-fuelled-violence-spirals.do;jsessionid=4FD8DE71E58F8F8E6C944CBF228B DB97
Portugal's (and other country's) soft use on cannabis causes problems elsewhere
http://www.lca-uk.org/news/shownewsarticle.php?articleid=14736
Problems in dealing with drug related problems
http://www.springerlink.com/content/m72755578r724363/
Decriminalisation in portugal leading to lowering of drug use is due to fiddling of statististics
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html
Portugal's rise in drug treatment rockets due to decriminilization
http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/html.cfm/index35987EN.html
Marijuana withdrawal and nightmares
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=7a9ff5eb915f28d357ec88f618e5557b&t=95618
Rise in rehab due to cannabis downgrade
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5151760/Cannabis-downgrade-saw-drug-treatment-need-double.html
Problems with studying cannabis due to strains and mental health issues and side effects
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld199798/ldselect/ldsctech/151/15107.htm#a12
Schizophrenia/psychosis and cannabis
http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/content/?id=30
Problems with drug treatment with sex offenders due to legalisation in California
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/us/27parole.html?hp
Drug trafficking in Canada leads to Murder capital (take note of legalisation effects here!!)
http://www.vancouversun.com/farming+community+becomes+Canada+murder+capital/1968138/story.html
Drug trouble in Canada's Paradise
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8231534.stm
Marijuana and testicular cancer
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/16/health/he-marijuana16
Cannabis and suicide
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/letters/article3953555.ece
http://www.abc.net.au/health/minutes/stories/s473102.htm
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2451150/Driver-let-teen-burn-to-death.html
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,23727652-5007061,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/405259.stm
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/154/154247_cannabis_blamed_for_students_suicide.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1156893.ece
http://www.eastbourneherald.co.uk/hailsham-news/Depressed-mum-hanged-herself-while.5260493.jp
http://www.lep.co.uk/news/Hanged-man-had-suffered-depression.5276374.jp
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23411179-mother-blames-cannabis-for-suicide-of-promising-violinist-daughter.do;jsessionid=F2F689360D4FEA2718C4FE611DD B7A19
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1562326/One-cannabis-joint-led-to-our-girls-suicide.html
Canada's Drug Crime rate due to decriminilising
http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/canada/2009/09/17/10955301.html
Drug rehab for kids on cannabis
http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/eadt/news/story.aspx?brand=EADOnline&category=News&tBrand=EADOnline&tCategory=xDefault&itemid=IPED24%20May%202009%2019%3A20%3A48%3A330
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/5351020/Children-treated-for-cannabis-misuse-at-rate-of-150-a-week.html
http://www.wellsphere.com/wellpage/marijuana-rehab
Addiction
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/04/the-cannabis-closet-addiction.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/caitlin_moran/article5946633.ece
Mental Illness
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/mental-illness-soars-in-uks-skunk-hotspots-397449.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-410765/8-10-mentally-ill-patients-heavy-cannabis-users.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080602160845.htm
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin/gnmRouteur/showabstract.pl?a=720114&cid=317?loggedIn=false&lecture=1
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin/gnmRouteur/showabstract.pl?a=695543&cid=317?loggedIn=false&lecture=1
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin/gnmRouteur/showabstract.pl?a=472914&cid=317?loggedIn=false&lecture=1
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?C=94252400836191319444&xml=/headlines/2008/06_june/week_23/cannabis_use_linked_to_adolescent_prodromal_sympto ms_of_psychosis.xml
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?xml=/headlines/2007/08/week_32/20070803cannabis_increases_psychosis_risk.xml
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?xml=/headlines/2007/05/week_20/20070514cannabis_use_may_prompt_transition_to_psyc hosis.xml
http://www.primarypsychiatry.com/aspx/ArticleDetail.aspx?articleid=2038
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/cannabis-an-apology-440730.html
http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/content/?id=27
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1B-4P8SSFV-13&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=6975b0a51f9ca7dfeda98f9ab41ded86
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-471106/Smoking-just-cannabis-joint-raises-danger-mental-illness-40.html
http://www.southendstandard.co.uk/news/southend/4414773.Man_died_after_being_restrained_by_police/
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?C=68384399760077662037&xml=/headlines/2009/06_june/week_23/headline4.xml&em=robert.pires@ntlworld.com
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/66/1/95?home
Dutch problems with Cannabis
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ilyOg9TbJFHHqnSpG82yJ8piAGlg
California problems with cannabis
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/21/opinion/oe-maher21
Drug dependency in newborns
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/one-in-500-babies-now-born-drug-dependent-1693502.html
Causal association between cannabis and psychosis
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/184/2/110
Slavery and Cannabis
http://www.newstatesman.com/law-and-reform/2008/11/cannabis-farms-children
Cannabis overdose
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/2009/05/22/primitives-star-steve-dullaghan-killed-by-too-much-cannabis-92746-23684609/2/
Pharmaceutical, clinically developed drug so no need to smoke cannabis for MS
http://www.pharmafocus.com/cda/focusH/1,2109,21-0-0-MAY_2009-focus_news_detail-0-492783,00.html
Skunk Knife murderer
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23667963-knife-murderer-made-paranoid-by-skunk-is-jailed-for-20-years.do;jsessionid=4B4F0428A249FE7C6FD6DE77E0635A 80
Psychotic Cannabis user knifes policeman
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23661166-details/Psychotic+cannabis+user+stabbed+policeman+to+death/article.do
Cannabis induced driver leaves girlfriend for dead
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2451150/Driver-let-teen-burn-to-death.html
More on pharmaceutical use of cannabis to stop "recreational use"
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/05/what-happens-when-pot-isnt-pot-anymore.html
Man stabbed to death
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1190606/Stabbed-death-confronting-drug-gang-supplied-schoolboy-brother.html
Portugal fall in crime rate is due to decriminilisation - problems still rife
http://www.addictionpro.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=440B847037BC4AFA8B377E381E9C548D&nm=&type=Blog&mod=View+Topic&mid=67D6564029914AD3B204AD35D8F5F780&tier=7&id=3DC20617AD9A4539AFB52AD812DC3644
Although the report does not make this case itself, perhaps the most radical interpretation of comparative international data like this is that the specific penalties (or lack thereof) in place have less impact on drug use patterns (for better or worse) than we’re often inclined to think …
Drug peddling
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/4428662.Brighton_children_used_by_drug_dealers_to_ deliver_cocaine_by_bicycle/
"recreational" effects on family
http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-express/news/2488567/Son-pleaded-with-dope-dealer-father
Drug enduced fatal accident
http://austriantimes.at/index.php?id=14004
Cannabis used as rape drug
http://www.3news.co.nz/News/NationalNews/Man-accused-of-raping-13-year-old-girl-remanded-until-June-26/tabid/423/articleID/106063/cat/64/Default.aspx
setanta
27-09-2009, 09:03 PM
MassiveTruck, I've never once belittled you; I have merely criticized your totally bias approach to this argument, that illustrates your inability to actually consider other points of view regarding a subject that will literally never disappear - as much as you would like it to - and instead you continue to treat us to various webpages that prove nothing other than the fact that any drug, or anything in life for that matter can be misused or abused, particularly by teenagers or people with a predisposition towards mental illness!
In many of your websites they use adolescents to highlight the drugs dangers but sure that's true in all cases with regard to children at a crucial moment in their development. And as for the studies on schizophrenia, the scientists themselves have said that they Can't Prove that it's the cause of the illness (and we're talking about large amounts of the drug being smoked over a long amount of time anyway) when all evidence points to the fact that marijuana causes no physiological addiction. This is about psychological addiction when we all know that unwell people will develop many unhealthy habits in an attempt to shield themselves from the realities of their lives.
But as you're in the habit of using "facts" to highlight the dangers of the drug, here's a PUBLISHED study that was made only two years ago that highlights the inherent hyprocrisy of condemning a drug like Cannabis when there are so many others, including legal drugs, that are far worse for an individual.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6474053.stm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17760130/
This is a genuine study and not just a rant made by one scientist or journalist.
You do realise that drug classification system was laughed upon and Cannabis was deemed Class B again right?
There you go.
Check my evidence for crime rates and rehab rise where Cannabis is legalised.
Seriously... it's all there. Not too far to look.
Lots of links - loads of links about it.
You're like a broken record, incapable of listening to anything we say on the subject. There's a flaw in everything you say and it's highlighted in the survey that I have posted. You can't be so obtuse about a subject that will never ever go away, yet you continue to rant on about the dangers of an illegal substance when all evidence points to the fact that there are other legal drugs that are far more dangerous to the individual and the community in general, yet you along with your government seem to readily accept this. Can't you see your hypocrisy and how you're just here trying to demonise a drug that will outlast us all and has been here for centuries.
MassiveTruck
27-09-2009, 09:09 PM
MassiveTruck, I've never once belittled you; I have merely criticized your totally bias approach to this argument, that illustrates your inability to actually consider other points of view regarding a subject that will literally never disappear - as much as you would like it to - and instead you continue to treat us to various webpages that prove nothing other than the fact that any drug, or anything in life for that matter can be misused or abused, particularly by teenagers or people with a predisposition towards mental illness!
In many of your websites they use adolescents to highlight the drugs dangers but sure that's true in all cases with regard to children at a crucial moment in their development. And as for the studies on schizophrenia, the scientists themselves have said that they Can't Prove that it's the cause of the illness (and we're talking about large amounts of the drug being smoked over a long amount of time anyway) when all evidence points to the fact that marijuana causes no physiological addiction. This is about psychological addiction when we all know that unwell people will develop many unhealthy habits in an attempt to shield themselves from the realities of their lives.
But as you're in the habit of using "facts" to highlight the dangers of the drug, here's a PUBLISHED study that was made only two years ago that highlights the inherent hyprocrisy of condemning a drug like Cannabis when there are so many others, including legal drugs, that are far worse for an individual.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6474053.stm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17760130/
This is a genuine study and not just a rant made by one scientist or journalist.
You do realise that drug classification system was laughed upon and Cannabis was deemed Class B again right?
There you go.
Check my evidence for crime rates and rehab rise where Cannabis is legalised.
Seriously... it's all there. Not too far to look.
Lots of links - loads of links about it.
You're like a broken record, incapable of listening to anything we say on the subject. There's a flaw in everything you say and it's highlighted in the survey that I have posted. You can't be so obtuse about a subject that will never ever go away, yet you continue to rant on about the dangers of an illegal substance when all evidence points to the fact that there are other legal drugs that are far more dangerous to the individual and the community in general, yet you along with your government seem to readily accept this. Can't you see your hypocrisy and how you're just here trying to demonise a drug that will outlast us all and has been here for centuries.
Setanta - that link you posted, if you know about Cannabis was deemed flawed by the people who presented it because Cannabis down grading led to a rise in Drug deaths and since it was up graded again - death rates from drugs decreased again.
It was all over the papers.
Serious to God, read what I post. It's not hard.
I mean, you posted a link saying Tobacco is a dangerous drug. What do you think is in a spliff? Sherbert!!!?
MassiveTruck
27-09-2009, 09:11 PM
yet you continue to rant on about the dangers of an illegal substance when all evidence points to the fact that there are other legal drugs that are far more dangerous to the individual and the community in general,
Oh erm... ok
Let's legalise it and increase the problems on society because other drugs are worse.
That kind of logic will kill us all!!
It's like saying "Oh, a Bazooka kills hundreds but a knife only kills one person at a time - so let's legalise that!""
Oh
My
GOD!!
MassiveTruck
27-09-2009, 09:14 PM
This is a genuine study and not just a rant made by one scientist or journalist.
It's not even a study. It's just a table based upon some unknown levels which was laughed upon and Cannabis became Class B again.
Since then everybody has said Cannabis is far too harmful to be legalised but erm... not you based upon nothing but a simple belief.
Really... read up.
Do you know those links above? Yeah.
It has about 40 genuine studies on it.
Have a read.
Most of the articles are based upon genuine studies too..
OK? COol.
I have told you, the answers are there.
Your response is always "oh massive truck, you're just a government apologist who can't see the good in cannabis and you post rants from journalists"
Maybe you should look at the studies I posted.
Yeah?
setanta
27-09-2009, 09:20 PM
MassiveTruck, I've never once belittled you; I have merely criticized your totally bias approach to this argument, that illustrates your inability to actually consider other points of view regarding a subject that will literally never disappear - as much as you would like it to - and instead you continue to treat us to various webpages that prove nothing other than the fact that any drug, or anything in life for that matter can be misused or abused, particularly by teenagers or people with a predisposition towards mental illness!
In many of your websites they use adolescents to highlight the drugs dangers but sure that's true in all cases with regard to children at a crucial moment in their development. And as for the studies on schizophrenia, the scientists themselves have said that they Can't Prove that it's the cause of the illness (and we're talking about large amounts of the drug being smoked over a long amount of time anyway) when all evidence points to the fact that marijuana causes no physiological addiction. This is about psychological addiction when we all know that unwell people will develop many unhealthy habits in an attempt to shield themselves from the realities of their lives.
But as you're in the habit of using "facts" to highlight the dangers of the drug, here's a PUBLISHED study that was made only two years ago that highlights the inherent hyprocrisy of condemning a drug like Cannabis when there are so many others, including legal drugs, that are far worse for an individual.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6474053.stm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17760130/
This is a genuine study and not just a rant made by one scientist or journalist.
You do realise that drug classification system was laughed upon and Cannabis was deemed Class B again right?
There you go.
Check my evidence for crime rates and rehab rise where Cannabis is legalised.
Seriously... it's all there. Not too far to look.
Lots of links - loads of links about it.
You're like a broken record, incapable of listening to anything we say on the subject. There's a flaw in everything you say and it's highlighted in the survey that I have posted. You can't be so obtuse about a subject that will never ever go away, yet you continue to rant on about the dangers of an illegal substance when all evidence points to the fact that there are other legal drugs that are far more dangerous to the individual and the community in general, yet you along with your government seem to readily accept this. Can't you see your hypocrisy and how you're just here trying to demonise a drug that will outlast us all and has been here for centuries.
Setanta - that link you posted, if you know about Cannabis was deemed flawed by the people who presented it because Cannabis down grading led to a rise in Drug deaths and since it was up graded again - death rates from drugs decreased again.
It was all over the papers.
Serious to God, read what I post. It's not hard.
I mean, you posted a link saying Tobacco is a dangerous drug. What do you think is in a spliff? Sherbert!!!?
You're still not listening are you? I can't talk to you anymore cuz you're just on a mission to vilify the drug here and not listen to anything else. You know for every incident you post of somebody crashing while under the influence of cannabis, I could post you 100 on somebody dying while under the influence of alcohol.
The fact is nobody has od'd on marijuana and it's safer in all respects to many legal drugs and yet you continue to deny this and post isolated incidents of the drug having been involved in some gang related criminal act. I honestly can't respond to you anymore cuz you just talk in circles without actually dealing about the reality of life and the fact that this drug will ALWAYS be with us.
I've already responded to everything you've posted and I'm too tired of your rhetoric and venom. You're just trying to illicit a response and I'm seriously bored of your approach to the whole subject which has been proven to be hypocritical and biased. That survey proves my points.
MassiveTruck
27-09-2009, 09:28 PM
I've had enough.
There is evidence against everything you say.
You make out because Alcohol (which is legal, probably the reason why if you think about it) kills more people, then Cannabis should be legal.
No consideration for all the suicides, the terrorist opportunism and the countless problems with it.
Carry on.
If this is the beliefs you love. Enjoy.
Before I go - Some studies
Suicide and Cannabis by the way
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120836181/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
Oh and a twins study with cannabis and suicide
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/61/10/1026
I love this one
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T63-4DFNDK1-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1025988683&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=18033bc2b2cb2efdc085f36f697418a9
Early-onset of cannabis use by females (but not for males) signaled excess risk for suicide ideation (RR = 2.9; p = 0.006).
You'll love this
http://pt.wkhealth.com/pt/re/addi/abstract.00008514-200209000-00010.htm;jsessionid=K1YM1nD9kbqSXRsxFDPvgZhGf0R11 K2GYG2dVyr6SYjQKrb7nZld!-670034922!181195628!8091!-1
Cannabis use, and particularly regular or heavy use, was associated with increased rates of a range of adjustment problems in adolescence/young adulthood-other illicit drug use, crime, depression and suicidal behaviours-with these adverse effects being most evident for school-aged regular users. The findings reinforce public health concerns about minimizing the use of cannabis among school-aged populations.
Oh erm... cannabinoids and suicide risk due to the endocannabinoid system - wow - it's in our brains already so it triggers suicide. WOW!
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1K-4KPFKC2-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1025987699&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a77d024e7b0742a1f0c9ed575ac017af
Just before I go. You know, there are alike hundreds of studies like this. Studying suicide rates amongst cannabis users. Off the top of my head - that's like thousands, just for the studies. WOWZER!!!
Just a taster of what you're supporting.
Enjoy!
MassiveTruck
27-09-2009, 09:31 PM
Since you like studies - just google them. look for mental health and cannabis - I have posted loads up there but I guess you missed them since you said I only posted "rants from journalists and one scientist"
Really - read up.
Help mankind.
Adios.
Oh. My. Everloving. God. Why are you ignoring my point about CBD/THC/Cannabinoids/Cannabidiol? And the fact that you thought each one of them were different things? And you want ME to listen to YOU?
I thought you shot yourself in the brains with your inability to tell the difference between the vital components of the Cannabis plant, which you seem to have ignored, and that was AFTER you were done claiming the Hemp plant and Cannabis drug were two different things, which you are also ignoring, but you have TOPPED YOURSELF AGAIN!
Hmm... You actually think people will grow enough Cannabis for themselves? That's illogical and not possible... That's why crime will rise 10 fold without it.
How many plants for how many spliffs? Do you see how it's impossible?
And there it is, people! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
You ARE aware that with ONE pack of FOUR seeds alone, which can be grown roughly in a meter square area over the space of three months that you can get DOZENS OF OUNCES? And thats if you are a really bad grower?
You ARE aware that from a SINGLE PLANT you can get hundreds of spliffs?
Of course your not aware. Because you are a moron. And you dont know a thing. Dear lord, this is worse than I thought! You really are an ignorant, pathetic, miserable old fool!
Not only that, but your STILL in denial of the fact that Cannabis' benefits far outweigh it's negatives! You have SCOURGED the internet for virtually every piece of negative Cannabis news you can find, yet NONE of it matters because your in complete ignorance of the fact that MOST PEOPLE WHO SMOKE CANNABIS DO SO WITHOUT ANY TROUBLE!
It's like me searching for alcohol related stories, which is pretty easy, considering ALCOHOL PLAYS A PART IN VIOLENT CRIME ON THE STREETS MORE THAN CANNABIS DOES, FAR MORE and posting them all here!
You really are un-freaking-BELIEVABLE! Im starting to feel sorry for you! I dont know should I be arguing with you! How old are you man, like, 13? Either that or some naive adult with some serious issues who never had much of a social life?
This is torture! You actualy BELIEVE it is ... in your words .... ''illogical'' and ''not possible''? A SINGLE PLANT could provide for an entire family of even the most hardcore rastas who smoke for three months!
And with that also goes your insane terrorism argument! How many people do you know who buy cornflakes from the Al Qaeda because it's cheaper?
And if Cannabis and terrorism is so intertwined, how come the dutch are not importing vast quantities of cannabis from terrorists?
You dare try and make me feel bad for wanting Cannabis illegal because of the people suffering from the drug itself, YET THE PEOPLE IN JAILS SUFFERING FROM ITS LEGAL STATUS DWARFS THEM IN NUMBER!
SIMPLE MATHS!
And with that is my argument for every petty link you have posted!
setanta
27-09-2009, 09:48 PM
And you're still posting websites that I've already responded to, stating that of course young adults would be illequiped to deal with any type of drug and those studies also indicate that there's an awful lot of other factors involved, including genetic predisposition. What I'm basically trying to state is that we all realise that every type of drug can be abused and can have a terrible effect on the young and those who are susceptible to mental illness, but it's your hypocrisy that really is astounding considering that there are many drugs that are far more dangerous. I've already answered this!!
You just continue on your quest, without listening to or reading any other surveys that we've posted. And we're not on a mission to demonise other drugs here; just trying to have a balanced conversation here regarding the drug and yet you continue to post isolated incidents of acts of violence that sometimes have a tenuous link to cannabis. Should I post ones relating to alcohol? Or maybe eating disorders,etc? This is all about people having a choice and taking the power out of the criminals hands, so that the drug can be monitored, controlled and the quality of the product can be insured.
And you're still posting websites that I've already responded to, stating that of course young adults would be illequiped to deal with any type of drug and those studies also indicate that there's an awful lot of other factors involved, including genetic predisposition. What I'm basically trying to state is that we all realise that every type of drug can be abused and can have a terrible effect on the young and those who are susceptible to mental illness, but it's your hypocrisy that really is astounding considering that there are many drugs that are far more dangerous. I've already answered this!!
You just continue on your quest, without listening to or reading any other surveys that we've posted. And we're not on a mission to demonise other drugs here; just trying to have a balanced conversation here regarding the drug and yet you continue to post isolated incidents of acts of violence that sometimes have a tenuous link to cannabis. Should I post ones relating to alcohol? Or maybe eating disorders,etc? This is all about people having a choice and taking the power out of the criminals hands, so that the drug can be monitored, controlled and the quality of the product can be insured.
Exactly! If we scoured the internet for alcohol/crime related links, even with it's LEGAL STATUS, we would crash the This Is Big Brother servers with the sheer amount of links posted!
I am, in fact, letting MYSELF down here I am sorry to say. This moron has goaded me into something and now I see he is just a wind up merchant.
*sigh*
setanta
27-09-2009, 09:52 PM
And yes, ProbeEight is right. This is a fecking natural drug that can be grown at home and that destroys any connection with criminals if each household was allowed to grow their own plant. I honestly don't think you know what you're talking about.
http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Prince+sentence+reeks+injustice+mocks+sovereignty/2042230/story.html
Just one victim of the law. The law that claims more victims each and every year than the drug itself.
setanta
28-09-2009, 05:47 PM
http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Prince+sentence+reeks+injustice+mocks+sovereignty/2042230/story.html
Just one victim of the law. The law that claims more victims each and every year than the drug itself.
Ridiculous stuff
Jessica.
30-09-2009, 01:49 PM
This is stupid. Alcohol and cannabis are completely different things. The price, effect, health risks everything, why are they being compared?
Niamh.
30-09-2009, 02:37 PM
I don't smoke cannibis but I have tried it. It makes me feel dizzy and sick. Having said that I know people that do, alot of them don't drink so it's their thing instead.
Personally, I think the people who end up addicted to it are the same sort of people who would end up being alcoholics, addictive personalities or circumstances at the time whatever!
I think If you're somebody who disagrees strongly with legalising cannibis then it would be hypocritical of you to not also condem alcohol as alcohol is as bad if not worse than it.
And also, I have no experiance of it but I have heard that it really helps people medicinally sometimes. If that is true, I would never deny a person suffering or in pain a bit of relief!
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 03:19 PM
I'll also post this in a new thread so it's easy access for you.
And you're still posting websites that I've already responded to, stating that of course young adults would be illequiped to deal with any type of drug and those studies also indicate that there's an awful lot of other factors involved, including genetic predisposition. What I'm basically trying to state is that we all realise that every type of drug can be abused and can have a terrible effect on the young and those who are susceptible to mental illness, but it's your hypocrisy that really is astounding considering that there are many drugs that are far more dangerous. I've already answered this!!
You just continue on your quest, without listening to or reading any other surveys that we've posted. And we're not on a mission to demonise other drugs here; just trying to have a balanced conversation here regarding the drug and yet you continue to post isolated incidents of acts of violence that sometimes have a tenuous link to cannabis. Should I post ones relating to alcohol? Or maybe eating disorders,etc? This is all about people having a choice and taking the power out of the criminals hands, so that the drug can be monitored, controlled and the quality of the product can be insured.
Surveys you've posted? What surveys?
Oh right... I get it, now you're lying in order to show people that you have actually posted something legible when you haven't posted anything legible at all.
Oh right... so you resort to lying (a bit like in the Muse thread as well..? Yeah? OK) in order to save face.
Counter argue what is written. I dare you, I double dare you.
Go for it.
Here are some facts for you to chew on.
http://www.idmu.co.uk/cannabis/cannabis-use-in-britain.html
Scroll down to Health Problems and you'll see the effect it has on 1 in 2 users of Cannabis. Regular users have regular problems with the drug.
Problems range from
Headache, Paranoia, Chest Problems, Panic Attacks, Anxiety, Psychosis, Apathy,
Running out (addiction) 6.3% of users suffer from this all the time, that is 1 in 20, 1 in 3 suffer from this more than occasionally).
Balance, Motor Skills (accidents) and Vomiting.
Now compare problems to frequency of use. You see a clear relationship that those who take it regularly have problems with the drug. In light of this every individual who takes it regularly has some problems with it on a regular basis BUT
They still take the drug.
Then you have the nerve, the audacity, the arrogance, the ego to say that, oh it's just kids oh it's just a few people, oh it's just the criminals. How dare you. How the hell dare you ignore all I have put forward and lie your way through everything you say to save face. Your position on this is null.
You have no grounds at all to counter argue - because you do not understand any of the stuff I posted.
That is the bottom line to this.
I posted numerous recent studies on suicide and mental illness, and you ignored it. The laughable factor is you try and save face by saying you know that it gets abused - well hey what genius - take a look at the statistics and look at the effects of the abuse.
You then have the pathetic nerve to say everybody will grow their plants in their home. If it's that cheap and convenient - why isn't everybody doing it now? Oh I guess you're going to say it's illegal - that was your excuse.
Christ you do make me laugh.
Like I said, and listen up clearly.
You don't have faith in the government when it's illegal but oddly, pathetically, laughably, you seem to have faith in the government when it is legal?
That has to be the most funniest contradiction ever. The most widely used drug in the country will lead to massive fashion to grow Marijuana in every household and criminals will disappear.
The naivety is insane
Anyway, just going to requote the stuff you haven't replied to yet, for your benefit.
Well done.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 03:19 PM
Here you go. Just some stuff you missed replying to.
I've had enough.
There is evidence against everything you say.
You make out because Alcohol (which is legal, probably the reason why if you think about it) kills more people, then Cannabis should be legal.
No consideration for all the suicides, the terrorist opportunism and the countless problems with it.
Carry on.
If this is the beliefs you love. Enjoy.
Before I go - Some studies
Suicide and Cannabis by the way
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120836181/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
Oh and a twins study with cannabis and suicide
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/61/10/1026
I love this one
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T63-4DFNDK1-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1025988683&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=18033bc2b2cb2efdc085f36f697418a9
Early-onset of cannabis use by females (but not for males) signaled excess risk for suicide ideation (RR = 2.9; p = 0.006).
You'll love this
http://pt.wkhealth.com/pt/re/addi/abstract.00008514-200209000-00010.htm;jsessionid=K1YM1nD9kbqSXRsxFDPvgZhGf0R11 K2GYG2dVyr6SYjQKrb7nZld!-670034922!181195628!8091!-1
Cannabis use, and particularly regular or heavy use, was associated with increased rates of a range of adjustment problems in adolescence/young adulthood-other illicit drug use, crime, depression and suicidal behaviours-with these adverse effects being most evident for school-aged regular users. The findings reinforce public health concerns about minimizing the use of cannabis among school-aged populations.
Oh erm... cannabinoids and suicide risk due to the endocannabinoid system - wow - it's in our brains already so it triggers suicide. WOW!
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1K-4KPFKC2-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1025987699&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a77d024e7b0742a1f0c9ed575ac017af
Just before I go. You know, there are alike hundreds of studies like this. Studying suicide rates amongst cannabis users. Off the top of my head - that's like thousands, just for the studies. WOWZER!!!
Just a taster of what you're supporting.
Enjoy!
...Forgot to add
Since you like studies - just google them. look for mental health and cannabis - I have posted loads up there but I guess you missed them since you said I only posted "rants from journalists and one scientist"
Really - read up.
Help mankind.
Adios.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 03:21 PM
Erm, if you had read these you should be cowering in the corner of the room at your lack of knowledge but it seems as though you're far too arrogant and delusional for that.
But here it is again. Enjoy!
I just want to post this again so you can read up on the things you know little about.
Answers to your replies and also the misunderstandings in your beliefs are below.
Let me start by saying, if you accept my view on things, fine, I will disappear.
If you abuse and insult and make out you know better without evidence, then I will return.
Well I don't know if it's your lack of knowledge, your ignorance to facts or your inability to answer and respond to questions that makes me laugh or in fact the videos you post from the pro cannabis council - or maybe it's your need to hurl insults and abuse that makes me laugh a lot.
For instance Probe Eight, you basically repeat yourself about he same thing. It can be responded with the simple answer as -
it's propoganda you're posting that has no relevance to the global problem and ignores it as well.
Those videos for instance. They are biassed. You do know that all those pro-cannabis websites don't have an iota of evidence for what they say.
While Setanta you think that if you put yourself forward as smart or intelligent then you can get away from answering questions, mainly by belittling the person you are responding to.
You seem to think the mental health problem is due to hydroponics but that's not true either because most people take Cannabis for it's high THC content and therefore need these types of strains to feel sedated and basically escape from their lives. All Cannabis has these problems (see small number of links below)
You do know that Portugal only legalised drugs because of the massive drug problem they had (which was causing problems for the economy) so they decided to tax insurance companies and create rehab treatment and other ventures to make money from addicts. People in rehab in Portugal is through the roof by the way - and this due to decriminalising of drugs - so it makes it easier to be an addict? Get it.
Portugal has stopped targeting drug dealers and instead just shove people into rehab. They are still there, it's just their life is easier - which... erm... is what I just told you? Yeah.
Please, join the dots. It's not hard.
I mean seriously, criminals will disappear because users will buy their stock from shops... erm... yeah... that will happen, I am sure... if you're naive that is. Wow...!
Anyway, cutting a long story short... I might as well just post some links for you to respond to.
Before you read them, realise that some people, in fact the vast majority of people have a life and they don't need drugs and you forget about the peopel who have families, friends and health systems who have to struggle due to drugs.
Go for it. It's liberty isn't it - not mine but at least I care. That's the difference between me and you.
Reply to these. Enjoy.
Cannabis alters DNA, lowers immunity, heightens disease risks
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cannabis-alters-human-dna-increases-cancer-risk-study/477395/1
Schizophrenia link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2407027.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4486548.stm
Marijuana withdrawal symptom
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/display/article/10168/54701?verify=0
Rise in drug deaths due to Cannabis rise
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-402939/Cannabis-downgrade-coincides-drug-deaths-rise.html
Problems with drug dealers and rise in crime due to downgrading
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3641562/Cannabis-smokers-need-to-be-locked-up.html
Cannabis could kill thousands
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2995275.stm
Cannabis use, hundreds of deaths a year
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1445718/Cannabis-use-causes-hundreds-of-deaths-a-year-coroner-warns.html
Cannabis users five times more prone to violence
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cannabis-alters-human-dna-increases-cancer-risk-study/477395/1
Drug use spirals - review drug laws
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23369774-review-of-cannabis-laws-as-drug-fuelled-violence-spirals.do;jsessionid=4FD8DE71E58F8F8E6C944CBF228B DB97
Portugal's (and other country's) soft use on cannabis causes problems elsewhere
http://www.lca-uk.org/news/shownewsarticle.php?articleid=14736
Problems in dealing with drug related problems
http://www.springerlink.com/content/m72755578r724363/
Decriminalisation in portugal leading to lowering of drug use is due to fiddling of statististics
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html
Portugal's rise in drug treatment rockets due to decriminilization
http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/html.cfm/index35987EN.html
Marijuana withdrawal and nightmares
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=7a9ff5eb915f28d357ec88f618e5557b&t=95618
Rise in rehab due to cannabis downgrade
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5151760/Cannabis-downgrade-saw-drug-treatment-need-double.html
Problems with studying cannabis due to strains and mental health issues and side effects
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld199798/ldselect/ldsctech/151/15107.htm#a12
Schizophrenia/psychosis and cannabis
http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/content/?id=30
Problems with drug treatment with sex offenders due to legalisation in California
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/us/27parole.html?hp
Drug trafficking in Canada leads to Murder capital (take note of legalisation effects here!!)
http://www.vancouversun.com/farming+community+becomes+Canada+murder+capital/1968138/story.html
Drug trouble in Canada's Paradise
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8231534.stm
Marijuana and testicular cancer
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/16/health/he-marijuana16
Cannabis and suicide
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/letters/article3953555.ece
http://www.abc.net.au/health/minutes/stories/s473102.htm
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2451150/Driver-let-teen-burn-to-death.html
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,23727652-5007061,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/405259.stm
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/154/154247_cannabis_blamed_for_students_suicide.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1156893.ece
http://www.eastbourneherald.co.uk/hailsham-news/Depressed-mum-hanged-herself-while.5260493.jp
http://www.lep.co.uk/news/Hanged-man-had-suffered-depression.5276374.jp
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23411179-mother-blames-cannabis-for-suicide-of-promising-violinist-daughter.do;jsessionid=F2F689360D4FEA2718C4FE611DD B7A19
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1562326/One-cannabis-joint-led-to-our-girls-suicide.html
Canada's Drug Crime rate due to decriminilising
http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/canada/2009/09/17/10955301.html
Drug rehab for kids on cannabis
http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/eadt/news/story.aspx?brand=EADOnline&category=News&tBrand=EADOnline&tCategory=xDefault&itemid=IPED24%20May%202009%2019%3A20%3A48%3A330
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/5351020/Children-treated-for-cannabis-misuse-at-rate-of-150-a-week.html
http://www.wellsphere.com/wellpage/marijuana-rehab
Addiction
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/04/the-cannabis-closet-addiction.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/caitlin_moran/article5946633.ece
Mental Illness
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/mental-illness-soars-in-uks-skunk-hotspots-397449.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-410765/8-10-mentally-ill-patients-heavy-cannabis-users.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080602160845.htm
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin/gnmRouteur/showabstract.pl?a=720114&cid=317?loggedIn=false&lecture=1
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin/gnmRouteur/showabstract.pl?a=695543&cid=317?loggedIn=false&lecture=1
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin/gnmRouteur/showabstract.pl?a=472914&cid=317?loggedIn=false&lecture=1
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?C=94252400836191319444&xml=/headlines/2008/06_june/week_23/cannabis_use_linked_to_adolescent_prodromal_sympto ms_of_psychosis.xml
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?xml=/headlines/2007/08/week_32/20070803cannabis_increases_psychosis_risk.xml
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?xml=/headlines/2007/05/week_20/20070514cannabis_use_may_prompt_transition_to_psyc hosis.xml
http://www.primarypsychiatry.com/aspx/ArticleDetail.aspx?articleid=2038
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/cannabis-an-apology-440730.html
http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/content/?id=27
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1B-4P8SSFV-13&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=6975b0a51f9ca7dfeda98f9ab41ded86
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-471106/Smoking-just-cannabis-joint-raises-danger-mental-illness-40.html
http://www.southendstandard.co.uk/news/southend/4414773.Man_died_after_being_restrained_by_police/
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?C=68384399760077662037&xml=/headlines/2009/06_june/week_23/headline4.xml&em=robert.pires@ntlworld.com
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/66/1/95?home
Dutch problems with Cannabis
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ilyOg9TbJFHHqnSpG82yJ8piAGlg
California problems with cannabis
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/21/opinion/oe-maher21
Drug dependency in newborns
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/one-in-500-babies-now-born-drug-dependent-1693502.html
Causal association between cannabis and psychosis
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/184/2/110
Slavery and Cannabis
http://www.newstatesman.com/law-and-reform/2008/11/cannabis-farms-children
Cannabis overdose
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/2009/05/22/primitives-star-steve-dullaghan-killed-by-too-much-cannabis-92746-23684609/2/
Pharmaceutical, clinically developed drug so no need to smoke cannabis for MS
http://www.pharmafocus.com/cda/focusH/1,2109,21-0-0-MAY_2009-focus_news_detail-0-492783,00.html
Skunk Knife murderer
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23667963-knife-murderer-made-paranoid-by-skunk-is-jailed-for-20-years.do;jsessionid=4B4F0428A249FE7C6FD6DE77E0635A 80
Psychotic Cannabis user knifes policeman
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23661166-details/Psychotic+cannabis+user+stabbed+policeman+to+death/article.do
Cannabis induced driver leaves girlfriend for dead
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2451150/Driver-let-teen-burn-to-death.html
More on pharmaceutical use of cannabis to stop "recreational use"
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/05/what-happens-when-pot-isnt-pot-anymore.html
Man stabbed to death
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1190606/Stabbed-death-confronting-drug-gang-supplied-schoolboy-brother.html
Portugal fall in crime rate is due to decriminilisation - problems still rife
http://www.addictionpro.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=440B847037BC4AFA8B377E381E9C548D&nm=&type=Blog&mod=View+Topic&mid=67D6564029914AD3B204AD35D8F5F780&tier=7&id=3DC20617AD9A4539AFB52AD812DC3644
Although the report does not make this case itself, perhaps the most radical interpretation of comparative international data like this is that the specific penalties (or lack thereof) in place have less impact on drug use patterns (for better or worse) than we’re often inclined to think …
Drug peddling
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/4428662.Brighton_children_used_by_drug_dealers_to_ deliver_cocaine_by_bicycle/
"recreational" effects on family
http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-express/news/2488567/Son-pleaded-with-dope-dealer-father
Drug enduced fatal accident
http://austriantimes.at/index.php?id=14004
Cannabis used as rape drug
http://www.3news.co.nz/News/NationalNews/Man-accused-of-raping-13-year-old-girl-remanded-until-June-26/tabid/423/articleID/106063/cat/64/Default.aspx
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 03:22 PM
So there you have it. Statistical evidence against Marijuana legalisation.
It highlights how it is abused for medicinal purposes. Abused by people for medicinal purposes. The mental health problems for ALL EVERY user and a counter argument that is indeniable and completely breakable
IF YOU READ IT!!!
Deal with it but hey - everybody needs their something - even a bunch of losers who need Cannabis. WEll done this is your life. Don't know about music, don't know about drugs!
You still don't get it, do you?
Never mind. Have fun with all the hate. This is just entertainment for me at this stage, watching you stress yourself out and get progressively nuttier. Oh the irony.
You should smoke a joint :joker::joker::joker:.
Niamh.
30-09-2009, 03:55 PM
Can we just put the studies and statistics aside for a minute please? Lets just think about our own life experiences for minute, how many people do you personally know whose lives have been destroyed by Smoking Marijuana?? I don't know any. How many people do you know personally whose lives have been destroyed by alcohol?? 2 spring to mind for me- My 28 year old cousin, a qualified dentist, lost her job because of alcoholism and last year threw herself into a river and died. My husbands mother was killed in a car accident when my husband was 13, the cause? A drunk priest driving on the wrong side of the road.
I'm not saying drink should be banned but to me if you are going to condem smoking marijuana then you should do the same for alcohol!
setanta
30-09-2009, 03:56 PM
He doesn't get it at all. Laughable really.
This little snippet illustrates the point we were trying to make about cannabis and how the ratio of it's active compounds is crucial in understanding and controlling it's effects. Once theirs monitoring and an element of control in the production of the drug, the mental problems that you love to associate with the drug will disappear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2cAFRAX3Gs&feature=player_embedded#t=60
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:01 PM
Can we just put the studies and statistics aside for a minute please? Lets just think about our own life experiences for minute, how many people do you personally know whose lives have been destroyed by Smoking Marijuana?? I don't know any. How many people do you know personally whose lives have been destroyed by alcohol?? 2 spring to mind for me- My 28 year old cousin, a qualified dentist, lost her job because of alcoholism and last year threw herself into a river and died. My husbands mother was killed in a car accident when my husband was 13, the cause? A drunk priest driving on the wrong side of the road.
I'm not saying drink should be banned but to me if you are going to condem smoking marijuana then you should do the same for alcohol!
I know far more people whose lives are ruined by Marijuana than Alcohol. Loads more.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:01 PM
He doesn't get it at all. Laughable really.
This little snippet illustrates the point we were trying to make about cannabis and how the ratio of it's active compounds is crucial in understanding and controlling it's effects. Once theirs monitoring and an element of control in the production of the drug, the mental problems that you love to associate with the drug will disappear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2cAFRAX3Gs&feature=player_embedded#t=60
Hmmm... Haven't I already erm... posted something about this. Erm a few pages back. OH you missed it yes. LOL You would have done.
Here's the crux ok? If you remove the sedating qualities of Marijuana (which cause Psychosis by the way and all the problems) then Marijuana has no drug like qualities at all. It has some medicinal qualities but it doesn't give you a buzz.
Do you understand that?
Oh and by the way evidence of this are in the links I am about to post again.
Can you counter argue them? No, because you're not smart enough.
Have you counter argued yet?
Don't worry, I'll repost it again.
OK? OK...
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:02 PM
You still don't get it, do you?
Never mind. Have fun with all the hate. This is just entertainment for me at this stage, watching you stress yourself out and get progressively nuttier. Oh the irony.
You should smoke a joint :joker::joker::joker:.
Aah... Right you haven't counter argued it again.
How funny...
I'll repost it for you.
setanta
30-09-2009, 04:03 PM
He doesn't get it at all. Laughable really.
This little snippet illustrates the point we were trying to make about cannabis and how the ratio of it's active compounds is crucial in understanding and controlling it's effects. Once theirs monitoring and an element of control in the production of the drug, the mental problems that you love to associate with the drug will disappear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2cAFRAX3Gs&feature=player_embedded#t=60
Have you counter argued yet?
Don't worry, I'll repost it again.
OK? OK...
Oh I forgot, you have no idea about Cannabis anyway so anything that involves the various compounds in the plant was obviously going to befuddle you again.
Niamh.
30-09-2009, 04:04 PM
Can we just put the studies and statistics aside for a minute please? Lets just think about our own life experiences for minute, how many people do you personally know whose lives have been destroyed by Smoking Marijuana?? I don't know any. How many people do you know personally whose lives have been destroyed by alcohol?? 2 spring to mind for me- My 28 year old cousin, a qualified dentist, lost her job because of alcoholism and last year threw herself into a river and died. My husbands mother was killed in a car accident when my husband was 13, the cause? A drunk priest driving on the wrong side of the road.
I'm not saying drink should be banned but to me if you are going to condem smoking marijuana then you should do the same for alcohol!
I know far more people whose lives are ruined by Marijuana than Alcohol. Loads more.
Do you really?? Ok, fair enough but I would guess that most people would know alot more people whose lives were destroyed by alcohol.
I do find that hard to believe but I'll take your word for it :thumbs:
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:04 PM
He doesn't get it at all. Laughable really.
This little snippet illustrates the point we were trying to make about cannabis and how the ratio of it's active compounds is crucial in understanding and controlling it's effects. Once theirs monitoring and an element of control in the production of the drug, the mental problems that you love to associate with the drug will disappear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2cAFRAX3Gs&feature=player_embedded#t=60
Have you counter argued yet?
Don't worry, I'll repost it again.
OK? OK...
Oh I forgot, you have no idea about Cannabis anyway so anything that involve the various compounds in the plant was obviously going to befuddle you again.
Here is the full post detailing all the evidence that counter argues the more rubbish you post by pro-cannabis drug dealers on the internet. Moron.
Hmmm... Haven't I already erm... posted something about this. Erm a few pages back. OH you missed it yes. LOL You would have done.
Here's the crux ok? If you remove the sedating qualities of Marijuana (which cause Psychosis by the way and all the problems) then Marijuana has no drug like qualities at all. It has some medicinal qualities but it doesn't give you a buzz.
Do you understand that?
Oh and by the way evidence of this are in the links I am about to post again.
Can you counter argue them? No, because you're not smart enough.
Have you counter argued yet?
Don't worry, I'll repost it again.
OK? OK...
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:11 PM
He doesn't get it at all. Laughable really.
This little snippet illustrates the point we were trying to make about cannabis and how the ratio of it's active compounds is crucial in understanding and controlling it's effects. Once theirs monitoring and an element of control in the production of the drug, the mental problems that you love to associate with the drug will disappear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2cAFRAX3Gs&feature=player_embedded#t=60
Have you counter argued yet?
Don't worry, I'll repost it again.
OK? OK...
Oh I forgot, you have no idea about Cannabis anyway so anything that involves the various compounds in the plant was obviously going to befuddle you again.
PMSL
I have counter argued you about 20 times in this thread and you're still living in this bizarre delusion of self importance.
I have given you answers and facts and clear stats to the problems with this drug. Oddly you don't see that.
Denial. Denial. Denial. Dangerous thing.
Facts speak louder than arrogance.
You just don't understand and also can't comprehend academic texts so all you have to say is
"yeah man like yeah man like check dis video like I is finds on da youtube man like me is buzzing like ya naa man"
''Pro Cannabis drug dealers'' LOL what a gimp.
If a poll was created to see if people knew more people affected by alcohol or by cannabis, and if Cannabis won, I would eat my hat, s*** it back out, and eat again again.
Something tells me you know very, very little people MassiveTruck. And hey, you already showed you are willing to lie and bullshit. Not knowing how much the average person smokes, not knowing the difference beteen important compounds, not knowing how much weed a plant would yield. Thinking at the start of the argument Cannabis the drug and Hemp the plant were two different things. Not understanding the simple ratio difference of people affected negatively by Cannabis versus those who smoke and lead normal, healthy lives, as well as those in prison.
Really, what I am trying to get at, is you are an incredibly thick person :).
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:15 PM
Can we just put the studies and statistics aside for a minute please? Lets just think about our own life experiences for minute, how many people do you personally know whose lives have been destroyed by Smoking Marijuana?? I don't know any. How many people do you know personally whose lives have been destroyed by alcohol?? 2 spring to mind for me- My 28 year old cousin, a qualified dentist, lost her job because of alcoholism and last year threw herself into a river and died. My husbands mother was killed in a car accident when my husband was 13, the cause? A drunk priest driving on the wrong side of the road.
I'm not saying drink should be banned but to me if you are going to condem smoking marijuana then you should do the same for alcohol!
I know far more people whose lives are ruined by Marijuana than Alcohol. Loads more.
Do you really?? Ok, fair enough but I would guess that most people would know alot more people whose lives were destroyed by alcohol.
I do find that hard to believe but I'll take your word for it :thumbs:
More people drink alcohol. Less people smoke Cannabis. Regular smokers is 30,000 in the UK.
How many drink alcohol? Almost every adult in a country of 60 million.
I know more people messed up with Cannabis due to work and I know the stats, the academics, the education and the surveys and studies because of this. It's common knowledge to me. Ratio to ratio I would say more people are utterly messed up due to Cannabis due to pro-morbid and pre-morbid effects of the drug - meaning one spliff triggers off a neurological change and affects thought patterns. Obviously regular usage makes things worse.
I've backed this all up with Science and stats on here.
All I have in response are videos of a show on BBC Comic channel and pathetic videos made by stoners on Youtube?
This is a joke. Counter arguing cold hard facts with Stoners posting videos on Youtube.
Idiotic.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:18 PM
''Pro Cannabis drug dealers'' LOL what a gimp.
If a poll was created to see if people knew more people affected by alcohol or by cannabis, and if Cannabis won, I would eat my hat, s*** it back out, and eat again again.
Something tells me you know very, very little people MassiveTruck. And hey, you already showed you are willing to lie and bullshit. Not knowing how much the average person smokes, not knowing the difference beteen important compounds, not knowing how much weed a plant would yield. Thinking at the start of the argument Cannabis the drug and Hemp the plant were two different things. Not understanding the simple ratio difference of people affected negatively by Cannabis versus those who smoke and lead normal, healthy lives, as well as those in prison.
Really, what I am trying to get at, is you are an incredibly thick person :).
PMSL comparing Alcohol drunk by most of the country to Cannabis, a regularly used drug by 30k in the country.
People who advocate are gimps bub. That's obvious.
LOOK AT THE STATS! ACCEPT FAILURE!
Have you counter argued the stats and facts?
I'll speak in Chav
Is you looking at dem links like and have yous worked out you is wrong like?
Don't give me stoner vids from Youtube.
Speak academically. Give me the facts to counter argue the masses of data I have given you. Don't talk this nonsense when you can't counter argue.
Be truthful. Be honest. Basically admit that you can't understand cold hard science. You can't understand facts.
You know, you are a stoner and you are inconsiderate and cruel to the people suffering from smoking cannabis but at least take a leap of faith and deal with facts for once instead of your need to smoke something so you don't have to move for hours on end.
Here is a clue by the way - If I don't want to move for hours on end, I just use my mind - but I guess that's just the difference between my strength of character and experience of life and the lack in yours.
:thumbs:
Niamh.
30-09-2009, 04:22 PM
Massive -
I really don't want to get into an agrument with stats and studies and all that, from what I can see there is plenty to back up either side of the argument. And to be quite honest I don't know anything about it, I won't try to bluff, lol!!!
However as I've said, from my own personal life experiences and people I've known, I have never come across anyone whose life has been ruined by Marijuana where as I have come across plenty whose have been seriously messed up and in some cases destroyed due to alcohol.
I do know plenty of people who do both, by the way. Like I said this is just my own experiences but I still stand by the thought the the majority of people would have had similar!
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:24 PM
Here you go. Counter argue these.
I have posted studies - the height of your intelligence is posting videos uploaded by Stoners on Youtube. Well done.
Now - welcome to the big leagues.
Let's see if after asking for the 50th time you can counter argue all of this.
Here we go again - part 50. Let's see if you can do it. :thumbs:
Let me start by saying, if you accept my view on things, fine, I will disappear.
If you abuse and insult and make out you know better without evidence, then I will return.
Well I don't know if it's your lack of knowledge, your ignorance to facts or your inability to answer and respond to questions that makes me laugh or in fact the videos you post from the pro cannabis council - or maybe it's your need to hurl insults and abuse that makes me laugh a lot.
For instance Probe Eight, you basically repeat yourself about he same thing. It can be responded with the simple answer as -
it's propoganda you're posting that has no relevance to the global problem and ignores it as well.
Those videos for instance. They are biassed. You do know that all those pro-cannabis websites don't have an iota of evidence for what they say.
While Setanta you think that if you put yourself forward as smart or intelligent then you can get away from answering questions, mainly by belittling the person you are responding to.
You seem to think the mental health problem is due to hydroponics but that's not true either because most people take Cannabis for it's high THC content and therefore need these types of strains to feel sedated and basically escape from their lives. All Cannabis has these problems (see small number of links below)
You do know that Portugal only legalised drugs because of the massive drug problem they had (which was causing problems for the economy) so they decided to tax insurance companies and create rehab treatment and other ventures to make money from addicts. People in rehab in Portugal is through the roof by the way - and this due to decriminalising of drugs - so it makes it easier to be an addict? Get it.
Portugal has stopped targeting drug dealers and instead just shove people into rehab. They are still there, it's just their life is easier - which... erm... is what I just told you? Yeah.
Please, join the dots. It's not hard.
I mean seriously, criminals will disappear because users will buy their stock from shops... erm... yeah... that will happen, I am sure... if you're naive that is. Wow...!
Anyway, cutting a long story short... I might as well just post some links for you to respond to.
Before you read them, realise that some people, in fact the vast majority of people have a life and they don't need drugs and you forget about the peopel who have families, friends and health systems who have to struggle due to drugs.
Go for it. It's liberty isn't it - not mine but at least I care. That's the difference between me and you.
Reply to these. Enjoy.
Cannabis alters DNA, lowers immunity, heightens disease risks
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cannabis-alters-human-dna-increases-cancer-risk-study/477395/1
Schizophrenia link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2407027.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4486548.stm
Marijuana withdrawal symptom
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/display/article/10168/54701?verify=0
Rise in drug deaths due to Cannabis rise
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-402939/Cannabis-downgrade-coincides-drug-deaths-rise.html
Problems with drug dealers and rise in crime due to downgrading
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3641562/Cannabis-smokers-need-to-be-locked-up.html
Cannabis could kill thousands
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2995275.stm
Cannabis use, hundreds of deaths a year
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1445718/Cannabis-use-causes-hundreds-of-deaths-a-year-coroner-warns.html
Cannabis users five times more prone to violence
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cannabis-alters-human-dna-increases-cancer-risk-study/477395/1
Drug use spirals - review drug laws
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23369774-review-of-cannabis-laws-as-drug-fuelled-violence-spirals.do;jsessionid=4FD8DE71E58F8F8E6C944CBF228B DB97
Portugal's (and other country's) soft use on cannabis causes problems elsewhere
http://www.lca-uk.org/news/shownewsarticle.php?articleid=14736
Problems in dealing with drug related problems
http://www.springerlink.com/content/m72755578r724363/
Decriminalisation in portugal leading to lowering of drug use is due to fiddling of statististics
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html
Portugal's rise in drug treatment rockets due to decriminilization
http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/html.cfm/index35987EN.html
Marijuana withdrawal and nightmares
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=7a9ff5eb915f28d357ec88f618e5557b&t=95618
Rise in rehab due to cannabis downgrade
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5151760/Cannabis-downgrade-saw-drug-treatment-need-double.html
Problems with studying cannabis due to strains and mental health issues and side effects
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld199798/ldselect/ldsctech/151/15107.htm#a12
Schizophrenia/psychosis and cannabis
http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/content/?id=30
Problems with drug treatment with sex offenders due to legalisation in California
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/us/27parole.html?hp
Drug trafficking in Canada leads to Murder capital (take note of legalisation effects here!!)
http://www.vancouversun.com/farming+community+becomes+Canada+murder+capital/1968138/story.html
Drug trouble in Canada's Paradise
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8231534.stm
Marijuana and testicular cancer
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/16/health/he-marijuana16
Cannabis and suicide
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/letters/article3953555.ece
http://www.abc.net.au/health/minutes/stories/s473102.htm
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2451150/Driver-let-teen-burn-to-death.html
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,23727652-5007061,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/405259.stm
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/154/154247_cannabis_blamed_for_students_suicide.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1156893.ece
http://www.eastbourneherald.co.uk/hailsham-news/Depressed-mum-hanged-herself-while.5260493.jp
http://www.lep.co.uk/news/Hanged-man-had-suffered-depression.5276374.jp
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23411179-mother-blames-cannabis-for-suicide-of-promising-violinist-daughter.do;jsessionid=F2F689360D4FEA2718C4FE611DD B7A19
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1562326/One-cannabis-joint-led-to-our-girls-suicide.html
Canada's Drug Crime rate due to decriminilising
http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/canada/2009/09/17/10955301.html
Drug rehab for kids on cannabis
http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/eadt/news/story.aspx?brand=EADOnline&category=News&tBrand=EADOnline&tCategory=xDefault&itemid=IPED24%20May%202009%2019%3A20%3A48%3A330
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/5351020/Children-treated-for-cannabis-misuse-at-rate-of-150-a-week.html
http://www.wellsphere.com/wellpage/marijuana-rehab
Addiction
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/04/the-cannabis-closet-addiction.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/caitlin_moran/article5946633.ece
Mental Illness
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/mental-illness-soars-in-uks-skunk-hotspots-397449.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-410765/8-10-mentally-ill-patients-heavy-cannabis-users.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080602160845.htm
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin/gnmRouteur/showabstract.pl?a=720114&cid=317?loggedIn=false&lecture=1
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin/gnmRouteur/showabstract.pl?a=695543&cid=317?loggedIn=false&lecture=1
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin/gnmRouteur/showabstract.pl?a=472914&cid=317?loggedIn=false&lecture=1
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?C=94252400836191319444&xml=/headlines/2008/06_june/week_23/cannabis_use_linked_to_adolescent_prodromal_sympto ms_of_psychosis.xml
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?xml=/headlines/2007/08/week_32/20070803cannabis_increases_psychosis_risk.xml
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?xml=/headlines/2007/05/week_20/20070514cannabis_use_may_prompt_transition_to_psyc hosis.xml
http://www.primarypsychiatry.com/aspx/ArticleDetail.aspx?articleid=2038
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/cannabis-an-apology-440730.html
http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/content/?id=27
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1B-4P8SSFV-13&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=6975b0a51f9ca7dfeda98f9ab41ded86
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-471106/Smoking-just-cannabis-joint-raises-danger-mental-illness-40.html
http://www.southendstandard.co.uk/news/southend/4414773.Man_died_after_being_restrained_by_police/
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?C=68384399760077662037&xml=/headlines/2009/06_june/week_23/headline4.xml&em=robert.pires@ntlworld.com
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/66/1/95?home
Dutch problems with Cannabis
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ilyOg9TbJFHHqnSpG82yJ8piAGlg
California problems with cannabis
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/21/opinion/oe-maher21
Drug dependency in newborns
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/one-in-500-babies-now-born-drug-dependent-1693502.html
Causal association between cannabis and psychosis
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/184/2/110
Slavery and Cannabis
http://www.newstatesman.com/law-and-reform/2008/11/cannabis-farms-children
Cannabis overdose
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/2009/05/22/primitives-star-steve-dullaghan-killed-by-too-much-cannabis-92746-23684609/2/
Pharmaceutical, clinically developed drug so no need to smoke cannabis for MS
http://www.pharmafocus.com/cda/focusH/1,2109,21-0-0-MAY_2009-focus_news_detail-0-492783,00.html
Skunk Knife murderer
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23667963-knife-murderer-made-paranoid-by-skunk-is-jailed-for-20-years.do;jsessionid=4B4F0428A249FE7C6FD6DE77E0635A 80
Psychotic Cannabis user knifes policeman
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23661166-details/Psychotic+cannabis+user+stabbed+policeman+to+death/article.do
Cannabis induced driver leaves girlfriend for dead
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2451150/Driver-let-teen-burn-to-death.html
More on pharmaceutical use of cannabis to stop "recreational use"
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/05/what-happens-when-pot-isnt-pot-anymore.html
Man stabbed to death
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1190606/Stabbed-death-confronting-drug-gang-supplied-schoolboy-brother.html
Portugal fall in crime rate is due to decriminilisation - problems still rife
http://www.addictionpro.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=440B847037BC4AFA8B377E381E9C548D&nm=&type=Blog&mod=View+Topic&mid=67D6564029914AD3B204AD35D8F5F780&tier=7&id=3DC20617AD9A4539AFB52AD812DC3644
Although the report does not make this case itself, perhaps the most radical interpretation of comparative international data like this is that the specific penalties (or lack thereof) in place have less impact on drug use patterns (for better or worse) than we’re often inclined to think …
Drug peddling
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/4428662.Brighton_children_used_by_drug_dealers_to_ deliver_cocaine_by_bicycle/
"recreational" effects on family
http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-express/news/2488567/Son-pleaded-with-dope-dealer-father
Drug enduced fatal accident
http://austriantimes.at/index.php?id=14004
Cannabis used as rape drug
http://www.3news.co.nz/News/NationalNews/Man-accused-of-raping-13-year-old-girl-remanded-until-June-26/tabid/423/articleID/106063/cat/64/Default.aspx
I loved destroying you here the most by the way. I laughed so much and I didn't need any drugs to induce that. Honestly I didn't. THat might be hard to believe but I don't need drugs to have pleasure. It's just I've been brought up like that.
Maybe go to Portugal and see all the Cannabis sufferers in the rehab clinics the Government is making millions in tax from.
Maybe go to California, and take the Cannabis straight out of the hands of people suffering from a range of ailments, whose only grace and relief is Cannabis. Go on. Save the world. You hero, you.
I am not responsible for people smoking Cannabis going insane. The fact is, and make no mistake about it, this is a fact, anybody who wants Cannabis can get it. It's not hard. So make it legal, make it safer, and make it cleaner.
They fuel an industry that exploits people by selling a drug to them
In addition to failing to respond to the actual FACT I had laid out that stated more people benefit from Cannabis, even on a recreational basis, than suffer from it, you also just provided an argument for legalization. Shot in the foot. Well done.
But wait ... whats this ... you think people would STILL risk going to dealers for cheaper Cannabis when they could GROW IT FOR FREE?
Says it all.
All chronic users suffer from life long problems by the way. But you chose to ignore that.
Yes. Because it is not a verified scientific fact. ALL users? Bit of a bold claim, even by your standards.
BUT here is what kills poor old MassiveTruck off...
You should really consider reading up on CBD, Cannabidiols, Canniboids and also THC too. Really know the difference man. Seriously.
CBD is Cannabidiol. THC and CBD are both Cannabinoids [as opposed to 'Canniboids']. Yet you mention all three as being EXCLUSIVE of one another. You really have no idea, do you?
The lack of THC and the higher the CBD - means no sedation.
Wrong. High CBD creates Indica strains of the plant. Known for a high sedation and body stone. As opposed to Sativa strains where THC is more dominant, characterized by a more 'trippy' head high.
There are strains of Cannabis out there that provide no sedation at all. But what does it matter. You had no idea what CBD was to begin with, considering you mentioned it separately to both Cannabidiol and a Cannabinoid, even though CBD IS Cannabidiol and Cannabidiol IS A CANNABINOID.
And then you tell ME in the same sentence you formed around your errors to read up on it?
Your dead in the water. Post all the meaningless s*** you want back. Rational people still know a legal Cannabis market is safer than an illegal one. The amount of people who develop problems from Cannabis is a tiny fraction of the overall userbase. Most of these problems come from Cannabis that could be ended if it were made legal. A ****ing meerkat could understand that logic.
Enough of this mess. I am no longer wasting time arguing with a bully who loves to goad others into arguments to then make them feel terrible about themselves. Your remarks about sedation, THC and the other components of Cannabis prove to me you have no idea what you are talking about and you are currently in the process of schooling yourself about Cannabis just to make some people feel terrible about themselves.
So go ahead, post ANYTHING you like back. It matters not. Not after this...
You should really consider reading up on CBD, Cannabidiols, Canniboids and also THC too. Really know the difference man. Seriously.
So we have four separate things, all of which I should know the difference between?
Now, over to your precious Wikipedia...
Cannabidiol, also known as CBD, is a cannabinoid found in Cannabis.
Oh dear me! Your cover has just been blown! Post back with what you like, wind up merchant, but you have NO idea what you are talking about! Why should anybody bother to reply to your points? Your finished!
LOL! Now thats put me in the mood for a smoke!
Hmm... You actually think people will grow enough Cannabis for themselves? That's illogical and not possible... That's why crime will rise 10 fold without it.
How many plants for how many spliffs? Do you see how it's impossible?
This is why crime will rise as crime (with the evidence I have shown you) has risen in Portugal, Canada, US and all across Europe to traffic in drugs to countries where it is legal...
Yeah? Come on...
I have given evidence for this but you're trying to make out there is truth to this.
I would love to know if you can actually reply to everything I posted instead of manipulating tit bits to make it sound like I got something wrong. Is that possible?
I mean, you just twisted something I said and said I was wrong (when I wasn't) and then said you're going to get a smoke.
Anywhere, here is a link regarding THC and the sedating effect to rubbish your misinformed view about sedation.
Enjoy... (I doubt)
This is from a BBC documentary. This is a showing a plant where they are removing "good products" from "certain cannabis plants" which have have Cannabinoid properties beneficial to medicinal gains.
You should really read up. READ UP... because in the real world, (away from the idiots writing on Wiki) people will laugh at you totally.
Read those links I posted. This is free advice. Nobody else will give it you.
Watch from 1:51 - this was on the BBC a while back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa6dX1Ok8rY&NR
Take note he talks about run of the mill Cannabis strains with anti-psychotic properties. Google this guy - he has studied Cannabis for years. Move on to where he is
"as recreational cannabis plants are grown for higher THC content so their CBD content (medicinal properties!!!!) falls, simply because the plant is unable (operative word!!) to produce high level of both"
Read up.
Free advice. Because you haven't got a clue.
You have sidestepped a lot of what I have said and I have responded to you with evidence. Clear as it is.
Your views on California are flawed! Utterly.
And...
I've had enough.
There is evidence against everything you say.
You make out because Alcohol (which is legal, probably the reason why if you think about it) kills more people, then Cannabis should be legal.
No consideration for all the suicides, the terrorist opportunism and the countless problems with it.
Carry on.
If this is the beliefs you love. Enjoy.
Before I go - Some studies
Suicide and Cannabis by the way
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120836181/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
Oh and a twins study with cannabis and suicide
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/61/10/1026
I love this one
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T63-4DFNDK1-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1025988683&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=18033bc2b2cb2efdc085f36f697418a9
Early-onset of cannabis use by females (but not for males) signaled excess risk for suicide ideation (RR = 2.9; p = 0.006).
You'll love this
http://pt.wkhealth.com/pt/re/addi/abstract.00008514-200209000-00010.htm;jsessionid=K1YM1nD9kbqSXRsxFDPvgZhGf0R11 K2GYG2dVyr6SYjQKrb7nZld!-670034922!181195628!8091!-1
Cannabis use, and particularly regular or heavy use, was associated with increased rates of a range of adjustment problems in adolescence/young adulthood-other illicit drug use, crime, depression and suicidal behaviours-with these adverse effects being most evident for school-aged regular users. The findings reinforce public health concerns about minimizing the use of cannabis among school-aged populations.
Oh erm... cannabinoids and suicide risk due to the endocannabinoid system - wow - it's in our brains already so it triggers suicide. WOW!
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1K-4KPFKC2-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1025987699&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a77d024e7b0742a1f0c9ed575ac017af
Just before I go. You know, there are alike hundreds of studies like this. Studying suicide rates amongst cannabis users. Off the top of my head - that's like thousands, just for the studies. WOWZER!!!
Just a taster of what you're supporting.
Enjoy!
..
.
.
.
And you're still posting websites that I've already responded to, stating that of course young adults would be illequiped to deal with any type of drug and those studies also indicate that there's an awful lot of other factors involved, including genetic predisposition. What I'm basically trying to state is that we all realise that every type of drug can be abused and can have a terrible effect on the young and those who are susceptible to mental illness, but it's your hypocrisy that really is astounding considering that there are many drugs that are far more dangerous. I've already answered this!!
You just continue on your quest, without listening to or reading any other surveys that we've posted. And we're not on a mission to demonise other drugs here; just trying to have a balanced conversation here regarding the drug and yet you continue to post isolated incidents of acts of violence that sometimes have a tenuous link to cannabis. Should I post ones relating to alcohol? Or maybe eating disorders,etc? This is all about people having a choice and taking the power out of the criminals hands, so that the drug can be monitored, controlled and the quality of the product can be insured.
Surveys you've posted? What surveys?
Oh right... I get it, now you're lying in order to show people that you have actually posted something legible when you haven't posted anything legible at all.
Oh right... so you resort to lying (a bit like in the Muse thread as well..? Yeah? OK) in order to save face.
Counter argue what is written. I dare you, I double dare you.
Go for it.
Here are some facts for you to chew on.
http://www.idmu.co.uk/cannabis/cannabis-use-in-britain.html
Scroll down to Health Problems and you'll see the effect it has on 1 in 2 users of Cannabis. Regular users have regular problems with the drug.
Problems range from
Headache, Paranoia, Chest Problems, Panic Attacks, Anxiety, Psychosis, Apathy,
Running out (addiction) 6.3% of users suffer from this all the time, that is 1 in 20, 1 in 3 suffer from this more than occasionally).
Balance, Motor Skills (accidents) and Vomiting.
Now compare problems to frequency of use. You see a clear relationship that those who take it regularly have problems with the drug. In light of this every individual who takes it regularly has some problems with it on a regular basis BUT
They still take the drug.
Then you have the nerve, the audacity, the arrogance, the ego to say that, oh it's just kids oh it's just a few people, oh it's just the criminals. How dare you. How the hell dare you ignore all I have put forward and lie your way through everything you say to save face. Your position on this is null.
You have no grounds at all to counter argue - because you do not understand any of the stuff I posted.
That is the bottom line to this.
I posted numerous recent studies on suicide and mental illness, and you ignored it. The laughable factor is you try and save face by saying you know that it gets abused - well hey what genius - take a look at the statistics and look at the effects of the abuse.
You then have the pathetic nerve to say everybody will grow their plants in their home. If it's that cheap and convenient - why isn't everybody doing it now? Oh I guess you're going to say it's illegal - that was your excuse.
Christ you do make me laugh.
Like I said, and listen up clearly.
You don't have faith in the government when it's illegal but oddly, pathetically, laughably, you seem to have faith in the government when it is legal?
That has to be the most funniest contradiction ever. The most widely used drug in the country will lead to massive fashion to grow Marijuana in every household and criminals will disappear.
The naivety is insane
Anyway, just going to requote the stuff you haven't replied to yet, for your benefit.
Well done.
So there you have it. Statistical evidence against Marijuana legalisation.
It highlights how it is abused for medicinal purposes. Abused by people for medicinal purposes. The mental health problems for ALL EVERY user and a counter argument that is indeniable and completely breakable
IF YOU READ IT!!!
Deal with it but hey - everybody needs their something - even a bunch of losers who need Cannabis. WEll done this is your life. Don't know about music, don't know about drugs!
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:26 PM
Massive -
I really don't want to get into an agrument with stats and studies and all that, from what I can see there is plenty to back up either side of the argument.
To be honest, there isn't.
I've practically ripped these kids to pieces and they've only got stoner videos from Youtube to counter argue.
What wins? Facts - Science - Experience - Stats.
Or stoner videos on Youtube?
There you go.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:30 PM
Massive -
I really don't want to get into an agrument with stats and studies and all that, from what I can see there is plenty to back up either side of the argument. And to be quite honest I don't know anything about it, I won't try to bluff, lol!!!
However as I've said, from my own personal life experiences and people I've known, I have never come across anyone whose life has been ruined by Marijuana where as I have come across plenty whose have been seriously messed up and in some cases destroyed due to alcohol.
I do know plenty of people who do both, by the way. Like I said this is just my own experiences but I still stand by the thought the the majority of people would have had similar!
Alcohol can mess people up
So can Cannabis.
Which is worse? Cannabis due to the irreversibility and the clear undeniable effects on Neurology and the effect it is having the on the mental health systems around the world.
Facts and stats on the net with a clear search and through millions of academic articles.
Niamh.
30-09-2009, 04:30 PM
You're funny when you get going Massive, you're like a machine!!! I see your mind is firmly made up so I'm going to leave it there!!! :hug:
setanta
30-09-2009, 04:31 PM
Massive -
I really don't want to get into an agrument with stats and studies and all that, from what I can see there is plenty to back up either side of the argument.
To be honest, there isn't.
I've practically ripped these kids to pieces and they've only got stoner videos from Youtube to counter argue.
What wins? Facts - Science - Experience - Stats.
Or stoner videos on Youtube?
There you go.
That's not a stoner vid you moron. That's a journalist undergoing a test to examine the differences between the various compounds found in the drug and if there's a link between the cases of psychosis and the strong THC heavy skunk found on the streets today.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:34 PM
Massive -
I really don't want to get into an agrument with stats and studies and all that, from what I can see there is plenty to back up either side of the argument.
To be honest, there isn't.
I've practically ripped these kids to pieces and they've only got stoner videos from Youtube to counter argue.
What wins? Facts - Science - Experience - Stats.
Or stoner videos on Youtube?
There you go.
That's not a stoner vid you moron. That's a journalist undergoing a test to examine the differences between the various compounds found in the drug and if there's a link between the cases of psychosis and the strong THC heavy skunk found on the streets today.
PMSL - I have already responded to this about 10 times I think? Probably more.
Oh God. You really are thick aren't you.
Seriously dude... You haven't got a clue.
Counter argue everything I posted. Go for it. It's there.
You think you're right? Do you? Seriously?
Do you?
Have the courage of your convictions.
Counter argue it - you are lying. You are ignoring and denying the things I respond to you with.
Counter argue all those things.
''Pro Cannabis drug dealers'' LOL what a gimp.
If a poll was created to see if people knew more people affected by alcohol or by cannabis, and if Cannabis won, I would eat my hat, s*** it back out, and eat again again.
Something tells me you know very, very little people MassiveTruck. And hey, you already showed you are willing to lie and bullshit. Not knowing how much the average person smokes, not knowing the difference beteen important compounds, not knowing how much weed a plant would yield. Thinking at the start of the argument Cannabis the drug and Hemp the plant were two different things. Not understanding the simple ratio difference of people affected negatively by Cannabis versus those who smoke and lead normal, healthy lives, as well as those in prison.
Really, what I am trying to get at, is you are an incredibly thick person :).
PMSL comparing Alcohol drunk by most of the country to Cannabis, a regularly used drug by 30k in the country.
People who advocate are gimps bub. That's obvious.
LOOK AT THE STATS! ACCEPT FAILURE!
Have you counter argued the stats and facts?
I'll speak in Chav
Is you looking at dem links like and have yous worked out you is wrong like?
Don't give me stoner vids from Youtube.
Speak academically. Give me the facts to counter argue the masses of data I have given you. Don't talk this nonsense when you can't counter argue.
Be truthful. Be honest. Basically admit that you can't understand cold hard science. You can't understand facts.
You know, you are a stoner and you are inconsiderate and cruel to the people suffering from smoking cannabis but at least take a leap of faith and deal with facts for once instead of your need to smoke something so you don't have to move for hours on end.
Here is a clue by the way - If I don't want to move for hours on end, I just use my mind - but I guess that's just the difference between my strength of character and experience of life and the lack in yours.
:thumbs:
You know, you are an alcoholic and you are inconsiderate and cruel to people suffering from drinking.
I will speak to you in alcohol-speak.
''Brudlegribbrugle''.
There. Thats essentialy what you just did to me. Even though I already told you I have only smoked a few times in the past, you ****ing ******.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Health/Cannabis-Is-Safer-Than-Alcohol-And-Cigarettes-Says-A-Report-From-The-Beckley-Foundation/Article/200810115111596
Your asking me to provide stats? It is BLATANTLY OBVIOUS alcohol is more destructive than Cannabis. There is simply no earthly comparison. By breaking it down into unconfirmed studies and tedious neuroscience, you are avoiding the most obvious stats of all.
Historically there have only been two deaths worldwide attributed to cannabis, whereas alcohol and tobacco together are responsible for an estimated 150,000 deaths per annum in the UK alone.
And thats direct deaths. Nevermind drunk scumbags causing trouble. Or A&E wards at the weekend.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:37 PM
Massive -
I really don't want to get into an agrument with stats and studies and all that, from what I can see there is plenty to back up either side of the argument.
To be honest, there isn't.
I've practically ripped these kids to pieces and they've only got stoner videos from Youtube to counter argue.
What wins? Facts - Science - Experience - Stats.
Or stoner videos on Youtube?
There you go.
That's not a stoner vid you moron. That's a journalist undergoing a test to examine the differences between the various compounds found in the drug and if there's a link between the cases of psychosis and the strong THC heavy skunk found on the streets today.
Look.
Since you love lying so much.
Since you try to deny you haven't read something and repeat yourself.
I'll help you out.
This isn't from the BBC COmedy channel by the way and it isn't a snippet so you can say things out of context and then shout "yeah man, I is watching the BBC Comedy channel i is man and like check dis like woman is like giggling like yeah man is good yaeh"
Real people. Real scientists. Real study. Remember to add this to the thousands of pieces of evidence in this thread I have rubbished you with and like I said
I HAVE ALREADY FECKING POSTED THIS!!!!! It would have saved you looking up joke BBC Comedy Channel videos.
Watch from 1:51 - this was on the BBC a while back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa6dX1Ok8rY&NR
setanta
30-09-2009, 04:37 PM
And all your surveys insisted that Marijuana itself isn't the cause of schitzophrenia; it can just aggravate anyone who has mental issues in the first place. The same can be said of all drugs and of many other things in life.
Which is worse? Cannabis due to the irreversibility.
Alcohol KILLS more people than Cannabis. Even if Cannabis were legal, the stats STILL would not compare.
You want to know whats irreversible?
Death. Death is irreversible. There are thousands of people in padded rooms alive because they have aggravated mental health conditions by abusing Cannabis.
There are millions in coffins for making the same mistake with Alcohol.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:38 PM
''Pro Cannabis drug dealers'' LOL what a gimp.
If a poll was created to see if people knew more people affected by alcohol or by cannabis, and if Cannabis won, I would eat my hat, s*** it back out, and eat again again.
Something tells me you know very, very little people MassiveTruck. And hey, you already showed you are willing to lie and bullshit. Not knowing how much the average person smokes, not knowing the difference beteen important compounds, not knowing how much weed a plant would yield. Thinking at the start of the argument Cannabis the drug and Hemp the plant were two different things. Not understanding the simple ratio difference of people affected negatively by Cannabis versus those who smoke and lead normal, healthy lives, as well as those in prison.
Really, what I am trying to get at, is you are an incredibly thick person :).
PMSL comparing Alcohol drunk by most of the country to Cannabis, a regularly used drug by 30k in the country.
People who advocate are gimps bub. That's obvious.
LOOK AT THE STATS! ACCEPT FAILURE!
Have you counter argued the stats and facts?
I'll speak in Chav
Is you looking at dem links like and have yous worked out you is wrong like?
Don't give me stoner vids from Youtube.
Speak academically. Give me the facts to counter argue the masses of data I have given you. Don't talk this nonsense when you can't counter argue.
Be truthful. Be honest. Basically admit that you can't understand cold hard science. You can't understand facts.
You know, you are a stoner and you are inconsiderate and cruel to the people suffering from smoking cannabis but at least take a leap of faith and deal with facts for once instead of your need to smoke something so you don't have to move for hours on end.
Here is a clue by the way - If I don't want to move for hours on end, I just use my mind - but I guess that's just the difference between my strength of character and experience of life and the lack in yours.
:thumbs:
You know, you are an alcoholic and you are inconsiderate and cruel to people suffering from drinking.
I will speak to you in alcohol-speak.
''Brudlegribbrugle''.
There. Thats essentialy what you just did to me. Even though I already told you I have only smoked a few times in the past, you ****ing idiot.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Health/Cannabis-Is-Safer-Than-Alcohol-And-Cigarettes-Says-A-Report-From-The-Beckley-Foundation/Article/200810115111596
Your asking me to provide stats? It is BLATANTLY OBVIOUS alcohol is more destructive than Cannabis. There is simply no earthly comparison. By breaking it down into unconfirmed studies and tedious neuroscience, you are avoiding the most obvious stats of all.
Historically there have only been two deaths worldwide attributed to cannabis, whereas alcohol and tobacco together are responsible for an estimated 150,000 deaths per annum in the UK alone.
And thats direct deaths. Nevermind drunk scumbags causing trouble. Or A&E wards at the weekend.
PMSL _
Sky News... LOL
Oh dear - You jokers.
You're trying to counter argue all of my data with Sky News. WIth one link from Sky news?
Oh My God! What a joke. LOL
Sky Fecking News. What a p**s take....
COUNTER ARGUE IT ALL OF IT!!!
Every single bit of it.
Have the balls to do it man. With real evidence not Comedy sites.
Real evidence.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:41 PM
And all your surveys insisted that Marijuana itself isn't the cause of schitzophrenia; it can just aggravate anyone who has mental issues in the first place. The same can be said of all drugs and of many other things in life.
Erm.. BIG FAT NO!!!
Seriously dude. Don't be an idiot.
Read them.
Newsflash, pun intended, it was a study. Sky News reported the study. Thats there job. It's the news. Adam Boulton was not hitting bongs outside the studios all day, you moron.
The figures are in the link. Two recorded Cannabis related deaths. Ever. Anywhere. 150,000 DIRECT alcohol deaths. Every year. In the UK.
No escaping.
If you hates the guts out of Cannabis I could manage that, but the fact that you seem to think it is more dangerous than Alcohol makes me fear for the future. Are there really people like you in the world?
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:43 PM
Newsflash, pun intended, it was a study. Sky News reported the study. Thats there job. It's the news. Adam Boulton was not hitting bongs outside the studios all day, you moron.
The figures are in the link. Two recorded Cannabis related deaths. Ever. Anywhere. 150,000 DIRECT alcohol deaths. Every year. In the UK.
No escaping.
Erm....
BIG FAT FAIL AT TRYING TO GO OFF ON A TANGENT BECAUSE YOU CANNOT COUNTER ARGUE THIS:
Here you go. Counter argue these.
I have posted studies - the height of your intelligence is posting videos uploaded by Stoners on Youtube. Well done.
Now - welcome to the big leagues.
Let's see if after asking for the 50th time you can counter argue all of this.
Here we go again - part 50. Let's see if you can do it. :thumbs:
Let me start by saying, if you accept my view on things, fine, I will disappear.
If you abuse and insult and make out you know better without evidence, then I will return.
Well I don't know if it's your lack of knowledge, your ignorance to facts or your inability to answer and respond to questions that makes me laugh or in fact the videos you post from the pro cannabis council - or maybe it's your need to hurl insults and abuse that makes me laugh a lot.
For instance Probe Eight, you basically repeat yourself about he same thing. It can be responded with the simple answer as -
it's propoganda you're posting that has no relevance to the global problem and ignores it as well.
Those videos for instance. They are biassed. You do know that all those pro-cannabis websites don't have an iota of evidence for what they say.
While Setanta you think that if you put yourself forward as smart or intelligent then you can get away from answering questions, mainly by belittling the person you are responding to.
You seem to think the mental health problem is due to hydroponics but that's not true either because most people take Cannabis for it's high THC content and therefore need these types of strains to feel sedated and basically escape from their lives. All Cannabis has these problems (see small number of links below)
You do know that Portugal only legalised drugs because of the massive drug problem they had (which was causing problems for the economy) so they decided to tax insurance companies and create rehab treatment and other ventures to make money from addicts. People in rehab in Portugal is through the roof by the way - and this due to decriminalising of drugs - so it makes it easier to be an addict? Get it.
Portugal has stopped targeting drug dealers and instead just shove people into rehab. They are still there, it's just their life is easier - which... erm... is what I just told you? Yeah.
Please, join the dots. It's not hard.
I mean seriously, criminals will disappear because users will buy their stock from shops... erm... yeah... that will happen, I am sure... if you're naive that is. Wow...!
Anyway, cutting a long story short... I might as well just post some links for you to respond to.
Before you read them, realise that some people, in fact the vast majority of people have a life and they don't need drugs and you forget about the peopel who have families, friends and health systems who have to struggle due to drugs.
Go for it. It's liberty isn't it - not mine but at least I care. That's the difference between me and you.
Reply to these. Enjoy.
Cannabis alters DNA, lowers immunity, heightens disease risks
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cannabis-alters-human-dna-increases-cancer-risk-study/477395/1
Schizophrenia link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2407027.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4486548.stm
Marijuana withdrawal symptom
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/display/article/10168/54701?verify=0
Rise in drug deaths due to Cannabis rise
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-402939/Cannabis-downgrade-coincides-drug-deaths-rise.html
Problems with drug dealers and rise in crime due to downgrading
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3641562/Cannabis-smokers-need-to-be-locked-up.html
Cannabis could kill thousands
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2995275.stm
Cannabis use, hundreds of deaths a year
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1445718/Cannabis-use-causes-hundreds-of-deaths-a-year-coroner-warns.html
Cannabis users five times more prone to violence
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cannabis-alters-human-dna-increases-cancer-risk-study/477395/1
Drug use spirals - review drug laws
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23369774-review-of-cannabis-laws-as-drug-fuelled-violence-spirals.do;jsessionid=4FD8DE71E58F8F8E6C944CBF228B DB97
Portugal's (and other country's) soft use on cannabis causes problems elsewhere
http://www.lca-uk.org/news/shownewsarticle.php?articleid=14736
Problems in dealing with drug related problems
http://www.springerlink.com/content/m72755578r724363/
Decriminalisation in portugal leading to lowering of drug use is due to fiddling of statististics
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html
Portugal's rise in drug treatment rockets due to decriminilization
http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/html.cfm/index35987EN.html
Marijuana withdrawal and nightmares
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=7a9ff5eb915f28d357ec88f618e5557b&t=95618
Rise in rehab due to cannabis downgrade
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5151760/Cannabis-downgrade-saw-drug-treatment-need-double.html
Problems with studying cannabis due to strains and mental health issues and side effects
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld199798/ldselect/ldsctech/151/15107.htm#a12
Schizophrenia/psychosis and cannabis
http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/content/?id=30
Problems with drug treatment with sex offenders due to legalisation in California
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/us/27parole.html?hp
Drug trafficking in Canada leads to Murder capital (take note of legalisation effects here!!)
http://www.vancouversun.com/farming+community+becomes+Canada+murder+capital/1968138/story.html
Drug trouble in Canada's Paradise
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8231534.stm
Marijuana and testicular cancer
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/16/health/he-marijuana16
Cannabis and suicide
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/letters/article3953555.ece
http://www.abc.net.au/health/minutes/stories/s473102.htm
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2451150/Driver-let-teen-burn-to-death.html
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,23727652-5007061,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/405259.stm
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/154/154247_cannabis_blamed_for_students_suicide.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1156893.ece
http://www.eastbourneherald.co.uk/hailsham-news/Depressed-mum-hanged-herself-while.5260493.jp
http://www.lep.co.uk/news/Hanged-man-had-suffered-depression.5276374.jp
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23411179-mother-blames-cannabis-for-suicide-of-promising-violinist-daughter.do;jsessionid=F2F689360D4FEA2718C4FE611DD B7A19
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1562326/One-cannabis-joint-led-to-our-girls-suicide.html
Canada's Drug Crime rate due to decriminilising
http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/canada/2009/09/17/10955301.html
Drug rehab for kids on cannabis
http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/eadt/news/story.aspx?brand=EADOnline&category=News&tBrand=EADOnline&tCategory=xDefault&itemid=IPED24%20May%202009%2019%3A20%3A48%3A330
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/5351020/Children-treated-for-cannabis-misuse-at-rate-of-150-a-week.html
http://www.wellsphere.com/wellpage/marijuana-rehab
Addiction
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/04/the-cannabis-closet-addiction.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/caitlin_moran/article5946633.ece
Mental Illness
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/mental-illness-soars-in-uks-skunk-hotspots-397449.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-410765/8-10-mentally-ill-patients-heavy-cannabis-users.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080602160845.htm
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin/gnmRouteur/showabstract.pl?a=720114&cid=317?loggedIn=false&lecture=1
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin/gnmRouteur/showabstract.pl?a=695543&cid=317?loggedIn=false&lecture=1
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin/gnmRouteur/showabstract.pl?a=472914&cid=317?loggedIn=false&lecture=1
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?C=94252400836191319444&xml=/headlines/2008/06_june/week_23/cannabis_use_linked_to_adolescent_prodromal_sympto ms_of_psychosis.xml
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?xml=/headlines/2007/08/week_32/20070803cannabis_increases_psychosis_risk.xml
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?xml=/headlines/2007/05/week_20/20070514cannabis_use_may_prompt_transition_to_psyc hosis.xml
http://www.primarypsychiatry.com/aspx/ArticleDetail.aspx?articleid=2038
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/cannabis-an-apology-440730.html
http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/content/?id=27
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1B-4P8SSFV-13&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=6975b0a51f9ca7dfeda98f9ab41ded86
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-471106/Smoking-just-cannabis-joint-raises-danger-mental-illness-40.html
http://www.southendstandard.co.uk/news/southend/4414773.Man_died_after_being_restrained_by_police/
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?C=68384399760077662037&xml=/headlines/2009/06_june/week_23/headline4.xml&em=robert.pires@ntlworld.com
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/66/1/95?home
Dutch problems with Cannabis
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ilyOg9TbJFHHqnSpG82yJ8piAGlg
California problems with cannabis
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/21/opinion/oe-maher21
Drug dependency in newborns
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/one-in-500-babies-now-born-drug-dependent-1693502.html
Causal association between cannabis and psychosis
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/184/2/110
Slavery and Cannabis
http://www.newstatesman.com/law-and-reform/2008/11/cannabis-farms-children
Cannabis overdose
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/2009/05/22/primitives-star-steve-dullaghan-killed-by-too-much-cannabis-92746-23684609/2/
Pharmaceutical, clinically developed drug so no need to smoke cannabis for MS
http://www.pharmafocus.com/cda/focusH/1,2109,21-0-0-MAY_2009-focus_news_detail-0-492783,00.html
Skunk Knife murderer
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23667963-knife-murderer-made-paranoid-by-skunk-is-jailed-for-20-years.do;jsessionid=4B4F0428A249FE7C6FD6DE77E0635A 80
Psychotic Cannabis user knifes policeman
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23661166-details/Psychotic+cannabis+user+stabbed+policeman+to+death/article.do
Cannabis induced driver leaves girlfriend for dead
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2451150/Driver-let-teen-burn-to-death.html
More on pharmaceutical use of cannabis to stop "recreational use"
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/05/what-happens-when-pot-isnt-pot-anymore.html
Man stabbed to death
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1190606/Stabbed-death-confronting-drug-gang-supplied-schoolboy-brother.html
Portugal fall in crime rate is due to decriminilisation - problems still rife
http://www.addictionpro.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=440B847037BC4AFA8B377E381E9C548D&nm=&type=Blog&mod=View+Topic&mid=67D6564029914AD3B204AD35D8F5F780&tier=7&id=3DC20617AD9A4539AFB52AD812DC3644
Although the report does not make this case itself, perhaps the most radical interpretation of comparative international data like this is that the specific penalties (or lack thereof) in place have less impact on drug use patterns (for better or worse) than we’re often inclined to think …
Drug peddling
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/4428662.Brighton_children_used_by_drug_dealers_to_ deliver_cocaine_by_bicycle/
"recreational" effects on family
http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-express/news/2488567/Son-pleaded-with-dope-dealer-father
Drug enduced fatal accident
http://austriantimes.at/index.php?id=14004
Cannabis used as rape drug
http://www.3news.co.nz/News/NationalNews/Man-accused-of-raping-13-year-old-girl-remanded-until-June-26/tabid/423/articleID/106063/cat/64/Default.aspx
I loved destroying you here the most by the way. I laughed so much and I didn't need any drugs to induce that. Honestly I didn't. THat might be hard to believe but I don't need drugs to have pleasure. It's just I've been brought up like that.
Maybe go to Portugal and see all the Cannabis sufferers in the rehab clinics the Government is making millions in tax from.
Maybe go to California, and take the Cannabis straight out of the hands of people suffering from a range of ailments, whose only grace and relief is Cannabis. Go on. Save the world. You hero, you.
I am not responsible for people smoking Cannabis going insane. The fact is, and make no mistake about it, this is a fact, anybody who wants Cannabis can get it. It's not hard. So make it legal, make it safer, and make it cleaner.
They fuel an industry that exploits people by selling a drug to them
In addition to failing to respond to the actual FACT I had laid out that stated more people benefit from Cannabis, even on a recreational basis, than suffer from it, you also just provided an argument for legalization. Shot in the foot. Well done.
But wait ... whats this ... you think people would STILL risk going to dealers for cheaper Cannabis when they could GROW IT FOR FREE?
Says it all.
All chronic users suffer from life long problems by the way. But you chose to ignore that.
Yes. Because it is not a verified scientific fact. ALL users? Bit of a bold claim, even by your standards.
BUT here is what kills poor old MassiveTruck off...
You should really consider reading up on CBD, Cannabidiols, Canniboids and also THC too. Really know the difference man. Seriously.
CBD is Cannabidiol. THC and CBD are both Cannabinoids [as opposed to 'Canniboids']. Yet you mention all three as being EXCLUSIVE of one another. You really have no idea, do you?
The lack of THC and the higher the CBD - means no sedation.
Wrong. High CBD creates Indica strains of the plant. Known for a high sedation and body stone. As opposed to Sativa strains where THC is more dominant, characterized by a more 'trippy' head high.
There are strains of Cannabis out there that provide no sedation at all. But what does it matter. You had no idea what CBD was to begin with, considering you mentioned it separately to both Cannabidiol and a Cannabinoid, even though CBD IS Cannabidiol and Cannabidiol IS A CANNABINOID.
And then you tell ME in the same sentence you formed around your errors to read up on it?
Your dead in the water. Post all the meaningless s*** you want back. Rational people still know a legal Cannabis market is safer than an illegal one. The amount of people who develop problems from Cannabis is a tiny fraction of the overall userbase. Most of these problems come from Cannabis that could be ended if it were made legal. A ****ing meerkat could understand that logic.
Enough of this mess. I am no longer wasting time arguing with a bully who loves to goad others into arguments to then make them feel terrible about themselves. Your remarks about sedation, THC and the other components of Cannabis prove to me you have no idea what you are talking about and you are currently in the process of schooling yourself about Cannabis just to make some people feel terrible about themselves.
So go ahead, post ANYTHING you like back. It matters not. Not after this...
You should really consider reading up on CBD, Cannabidiols, Canniboids and also THC too. Really know the difference man. Seriously.
So we have four separate things, all of which I should know the difference between?
Now, over to your precious Wikipedia...
Cannabidiol, also known as CBD, is a cannabinoid found in Cannabis.
Oh dear me! Your cover has just been blown! Post back with what you like, wind up merchant, but you have NO idea what you are talking about! Why should anybody bother to reply to your points? Your finished!
LOL! Now thats put me in the mood for a smoke!
Hmm... You actually think people will grow enough Cannabis for themselves? That's illogical and not possible... That's why crime will rise 10 fold without it.
How many plants for how many spliffs? Do you see how it's impossible?
This is why crime will rise as crime (with the evidence I have shown you) has risen in Portugal, Canada, US and all across Europe to traffic in drugs to countries where it is legal...
Yeah? Come on...
I have given evidence for this but you're trying to make out there is truth to this.
I would love to know if you can actually reply to everything I posted instead of manipulating tit bits to make it sound like I got something wrong. Is that possible?
I mean, you just twisted something I said and said I was wrong (when I wasn't) and then said you're going to get a smoke.
Anywhere, here is a link regarding THC and the sedating effect to rubbish your misinformed view about sedation.
Enjoy... (I doubt)
This is from a BBC documentary. This is a showing a plant where they are removing "good products" from "certain cannabis plants" which have have Cannabinoid properties beneficial to medicinal gains.
You should really read up. READ UP... because in the real world, (away from the idiots writing on Wiki) people will laugh at you totally.
Read those links I posted. This is free advice. Nobody else will give it you.
Watch from 1:51 - this was on the BBC a while back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa6dX1Ok8rY&NR
Take note he talks about run of the mill Cannabis strains with anti-psychotic properties. Google this guy - he has studied Cannabis for years. Move on to where he is
"as recreational cannabis plants are grown for higher THC content so their CBD content (medicinal properties!!!!) falls, simply because the plant is unable (operative word!!) to produce high level of both"
Read up.
Free advice. Because you haven't got a clue.
You have sidestepped a lot of what I have said and I have responded to you with evidence. Clear as it is.
Your views on California are flawed! Utterly.
And...
I've had enough.
There is evidence against everything you say.
You make out because Alcohol (which is legal, probably the reason why if you think about it) kills more people, then Cannabis should be legal.
No consideration for all the suicides, the terrorist opportunism and the countless problems with it.
Carry on.
If this is the beliefs you love. Enjoy.
Before I go - Some studies
Suicide and Cannabis by the way
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120836181/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
Oh and a twins study with cannabis and suicide
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/61/10/1026
I love this one
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T63-4DFNDK1-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1025988683&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=18033bc2b2cb2efdc085f36f697418a9
Early-onset of cannabis use by females (but not for males) signaled excess risk for suicide ideation (RR = 2.9; p = 0.006).
You'll love this
http://pt.wkhealth.com/pt/re/addi/abstract.00008514-200209000-00010.htm;jsessionid=K1YM1nD9kbqSXRsxFDPvgZhGf0R11 K2GYG2dVyr6SYjQKrb7nZld!-670034922!181195628!8091!-1
Cannabis use, and particularly regular or heavy use, was associated with increased rates of a range of adjustment problems in adolescence/young adulthood-other illicit drug use, crime, depression and suicidal behaviours-with these adverse effects being most evident for school-aged regular users. The findings reinforce public health concerns about minimizing the use of cannabis among school-aged populations.
Oh erm... cannabinoids and suicide risk due to the endocannabinoid system - wow - it's in our brains already so it triggers suicide. WOW!
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1K-4KPFKC2-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1025987699&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a77d024e7b0742a1f0c9ed575ac017af
Just before I go. You know, there are alike hundreds of studies like this. Studying suicide rates amongst cannabis users. Off the top of my head - that's like thousands, just for the studies. WOWZER!!!
Just a taster of what you're supporting.
Enjoy!
setanta
30-09-2009, 04:44 PM
And all your surveys insisted that Marijuana itself isn't the cause of schitzophrenia; it can just aggravate anyone who has mental issues in the first place. The same can be said of all drugs and of many other things in life.
Erm.. BIG FAT NO!!!
Seriously dude. Don't be an idiot.
Read them.
I did, and they couldn't prove that cannabis caused the problem itself.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:44 PM
If you hates the guts out of Cannabis I could manage that, but the fact that you seem to think it is more dangerous than Alcohol makes me fear for the future. Are there really people like you in the world?
Well there are people like you that can't read academic publications so is it hard to believe that people like me who care for social problems are in the world?
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:45 PM
And all your surveys insisted that Marijuana itself isn't the cause of schitzophrenia; it can just aggravate anyone who has mental issues in the first place. The same can be said of all drugs and of many other things in life.
Erm.. BIG FAT NO!!!
Seriously dude. Don't be an idiot.
Read them.
I did, and they couldn't prove that cannabis caused the problem itself.
Stop lying.
Seriously... it just shows how little character you have.
Here's what you need to do - take every link and counter argue it. OK?
Write it out here. Just saying it doesn't help.
Go on. There's a good boy.
setanta
30-09-2009, 04:46 PM
If you hates the guts out of Cannabis I could manage that, but the fact that you seem to think it is more dangerous than Alcohol makes me fear for the future. Are there really people like you in the world?
Well there are people like you that can't read academic publications so is it hard to believe that people like me who care for social problems are in the world?
You're incredible. Did you read the other part of his comments or just fly through it, merely scanning for items you can use in your attacks?
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:47 PM
Tell you what...
I have to go to a life without drugs.
I'll come back to copy and paste the stuff you haven't replied to again? OK.
There you go because I know you can't counter argue facts so... Giggle Giggle. :xyxwave::xyxwave:
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:48 PM
If you hates the guts out of Cannabis I could manage that, but the fact that you seem to think it is more dangerous than Alcohol makes me fear for the future. Are there really people like you in the world?
Well there are people like you that can't read academic publications so is it hard to believe that people like me who care for social problems are in the world?
You're incredible. Did you read the other part of his comments or just fly through it, merely scanning for items you can use in your attacks?
Erm... yes... it's up there :conf::conf:
:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:
Your problem is and it's a big fat problem YOU DON'T READ THE BLOODY POSTS PEOPLE MAKE SO YOU LOOK LIKE A MUPPET!!
Yep, I can counter argue each and every one of them. I already did. But for the sake of humoring myself...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/kingofthering/1-7-2009-12-45-25-pm.png
Why dont you expand your Google search past ''Cannabis Apocalypse'' and try something along the lines of ''Drug deaths per annum'' or ''drug related social cost comparison''? If Cannabis is rated higher than Alcohol, you win a medal. Two.
And for added insult...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/kingofthering/shark-attack-risk-of-death.jpg
Now copy and paste your studies and tests back in the exact same fashion as before, blatantly ignoring the bigger picture. God forbid.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:50 PM
Yep, I can counter argue each and every one of them. I already did. But for the sake of humoring myself...
No you haven't
Not at all.
You're trying to hide behind Cannabis Deaths and Alcohol Deaths which is because I have asked you something you fail to respond to.
Carry on.
You know I've got you and I've got you baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad!!! :laugh2::laugh2:
setanta
30-09-2009, 04:50 PM
This is hysterical.... that video you posted is basically echoing everything that my vid alluded to. Talks about THC and CBD. Do you even watch them?
The scientist in your video is stating the exact same thing. You're actually a right wally.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa6dX1Ok8rY&NR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2cAFRAX3Gs&feature=player_embedded#t=60
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:52 PM
Now copy and paste your studies and tests back in the exact same fashion as before, blatantly ignoring the bigger picture. God forbid.
Yes your bigger picture of "nobody dies but lets **** them up with drugs instead WOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
How utterly pathetic. Well done..
BTW I have already posted that people die due to excess poisoning of chemicals (links and evidence given) and also from tobacco and also from suicide due to mental health problems. Evidence given.... which
You ignore. You lie about not seeing. It's there - so counter argue man. Go for it. See if you can understand it. Come on.
All you say I have already answered
Let me say that again - all you say I have already answered.
To prove me wrong - counter argue every piece of evidence given.
Counter argue it boy. Counter argue it....
Go for it.
Yep, I can counter argue each and every one of them. I already did. But for the sake of humoring myself...
No you haven't
Not at all.
You're trying to hide behind Cannabis Deaths and Alcohol Deaths which is because I have asked you something you fail to respond to.
Carry on.
You know I've got you and I've got you baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad!!! :laugh2::laugh2:
I am not hiding behind anything. Alcohol kills more people than Cannabis. Alcohol causes more harm than Cannabis. It is a fact of life. I dont need seven hundred links to prove my point. It is there in simple figures.
Now do you want to say again Cannabis is more dangerous than alcohol? Of course you do.
This is the most lolTACTIC thread ever! :dazzler:
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:53 PM
This is hysterical.... that video you posted is basically echoing everything that my vid alluded to. Talks about THC and CBD. Do you even watch them?
The scientist in your video is stating the exact same thing. You're actually a right wally.
This just backs up the case you know eff all because you don't understand it.
Well done.
You're just a naive and also idiotic lefty liberal who can't understand anybody who uses big words - it's why it takes you ages to respond and that for only one sentence too.
Now copy and paste your studies and tests back in the exact same fashion as before, blatantly ignoring the bigger picture. God forbid.
Yes your bigger picture of "nobody dies but lets **** them up with drugs instead WOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
How utterly pathetic. Well done..
BTW I have already posted that people die due to excess poisoning of chemicals (links and evidence given) and also from tobacco and also from suicide due to mental health problems. Evidence given.... which
You ignore. You lie about not seeing. It's there - so counter argue man. Go for it. See if you can understand it. Come on.
All you say I have already answered
Let me say that again - all you say I have already answered.
To prove me wrong - counter argue every piece of evidence given.
Counter argue it boy. Counter argue it....
Go for it.
Tobacco is a different drug. People mix it with weed, yes, but not everybody does. In fact, I think it is rather unpleasant.
Nobody commits suicide due to alcohol, of course. Certainly far less than Cannabis. Alcohol ... causing suicide? What an insane idea!
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:55 PM
Yep, I can counter argue each and every one of them. I already did. But for the sake of humoring myself...
No you haven't
Not at all.
You're trying to hide behind Cannabis Deaths and Alcohol Deaths which is because I have asked you something you fail to respond to.
Carry on.
You know I've got you and I've got you baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad!!! :laugh2::laugh2:
I am not hiding behind anything. Alcohol kills more people than Cannabis. Alcohol causes more harm than Cannabis. It is a fact of life. I dont need seven hundred links to prove my point. It is there in simple figures.
Now do you want to say again Cannabis is more dangerous than alcohol? Of course you do.
This is the most lolTACTIC thread ever! :dazzler:
And I'm telling you, I've already counter argued this in those links. If you read those links you'll see you've been owned about 10 or 20 times already in this thread.
What is wrong with you?
You just think becuase you say something it's true? Why are you so arrogant? Why are you so egotistical?
Why do you think links from Comedy websites are appropriate?
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:55 PM
Now copy and paste your studies and tests back in the exact same fashion as before, blatantly ignoring the bigger picture. God forbid.
Yes your bigger picture of "nobody dies but lets **** them up with drugs instead WOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
How utterly pathetic. Well done..
BTW I have already posted that people die due to excess poisoning of chemicals (links and evidence given) and also from tobacco and also from suicide due to mental health problems. Evidence given.... which
You ignore. You lie about not seeing. It's there - so counter argue man. Go for it. See if you can understand it. Come on.
All you say I have already answered
Let me say that again - all you say I have already answered.
To prove me wrong - counter argue every piece of evidence given.
Counter argue it boy. Counter argue it....
Go for it.
Tobacco is a different drug. People mix it with weed, yes, but not everybody does. In fact, I think it is rather unpleasant.
Nobody commits suicide due to alcohol, of course. Certainly far less than Cannabis. Alcohol ... causing suicide? What an insane idea!
Oh God. Your responses are so stupid. You even attempt to change Cannabis culture too...
COUNTER ARGUE IT
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? NO UNDERSTANDING THE ENGLISH?
October 2 2008
"Cannabis Prohibition" Causes More Harm Than Cannabis: Report
Of particular note are the crippling social harms arising from arrest and imprisonment.
The report concludes "Policies that control cannabis, whether draconian or liberal, appear to have little impact on the prevalence of consumption."
The authors suggest there is evidence that "the current system of cannabis regulation is not working, and ... there needs to be a serious rethink if we are to minimise the harms caused by cannabis use," which would back up former ACMD Chairman Professor Sir Michael Rawlins and the recommendations he gave at the request of the Home Secretary back in March 2008.
According to the report, there are now more than 160 million users of the drug worldwide and at face value that would seem to be enough proof that cannabis is not a fraction of the social issue which comes as a by-product of alcohol abuse.
Which suggests perhaps the further criminalisation of responsible adults who choose to consume cannabis in the privacy of their own homes, is a needless and senseless move on the part of the Home Office?
According to a joint poll run in conjunction with the United Nations and the World Health Organisation (WHO) recently, almost half the population of the United States (41%) admits experimenting with cannabis, and yet psychosis statistics in the US run close to those in the UK at around 1% of the population. which disproves the Home Office and its primary reason for upping the classification of cannabis.
"Although cannabis can have a negative impact on health, including mental health, in terms of relative harms it is considerably less harmful than alcohol or tobacco." A conclusion reached recently by respected medical journal "The Lancet", which found nicotine and alcohol to be far more of a social issue in terms of real harms caused, than cannabis, heroin or cocaine.
"Historically, there have only been two deaths worldwide attributed to cannabis(citation needed), whereas alcohol and tobacco together are responsible for an estimated 150,000 deaths per annum in the UK alone," and this according to governments own figures.
In the United States currently, which is the undoubted world benchmark when it comes to cannabis abuse, 1 in 99 US citizens is in prison for a cannabis charge of some sort, adding weight to the argument against draconian laws against cannabis and its users.
*Do you agree with the reclassification of cannabis? Or do you disagree?
Vernon Coaker was one of the first Cabinet ministers to admit his own cannabis experimentations as a student, and yet today he is a prime mover in the government’s attempts to get cannabis reclassified to a class B drug which brings with it more court appearances, higher fines, and longer prison sentences simply for having a small amount of cannabis in your possession.
setanta
30-09-2009, 04:56 PM
This is hysterical.... that video you posted is basically echoing everything that my vid alluded to. Talks about THC and CBD. Do you even watch them?
The scientist in your video is stating the exact same thing. You're actually a right wally.
This just backs up the case you know eff all because you don't understand it.
Well done.
You're just a naive and also idiotic lefty liberal who can't understand anybody who uses big words - it's why it takes you ages to respond and that for only one sentence too.
No, I'm just watching the video and laughing at you for posting it. Hysterical stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2cAFRAX3Gs&feature=player_embedded#t=60
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa6dX1Ok8rY&NR
They're talking about the strains of the drug that are produced for general consumption with are packed with THC. And as for the sitting down and doing nothing, people will use anything to do that.... tv, alcohol, eating you name it. Really really vague end to it with no stats to go with it. As the narrator said, cases of psychosis are extremely RARE.
Now copy and paste your studies and tests back in the exact same fashion as before, blatantly ignoring the bigger picture. God forbid.
Yes your bigger picture of "nobody dies but lets **** them up with drugs instead WOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
How utterly pathetic. Well done..
BTW I have already posted that people die due to excess poisoning of chemicals (links and evidence given) and also from tobacco and also from suicide due to mental health problems. Evidence given.... which
You ignore. You lie about not seeing. It's there - so counter argue man. Go for it. See if you can understand it. Come on.
All you say I have already answered
Let me say that again - all you say I have already answered.
To prove me wrong - counter argue every piece of evidence given.
Counter argue it boy. Counter argue it....
Go for it.
Tobacco is a different drug. People mix it with weed, yes, but not everybody does. In fact, I think it is rather unpleasant.
Nobody commits suicide due to alcohol, of course. Certainly far less than Cannabis. Alcohol ... causing suicide? What an insane idea!
Oh God. Your responses are so stupid. You even attempt to change Cannabis culture too...
COUNTER ARGUE IT
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? NO UNDERSTANDING THE ENGLISH?
Why cant YOU counter argument, bitch? Cannabis causes suicide, sure. But so does alcohol. Way more, in fact. Thats common sense.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:57 PM
October 2 2008
"Cannabis Prohibition" Causes More Harm Than Cannabis: Report
Of particular note are the crippling social harms arising from arrest and imprisonment.
The report concludes "Policies that control cannabis, whether draconian or liberal, appear to have little impact on the prevalence of consumption."
The authors suggest there is evidence that "the current system of cannabis regulation is not working, and ... there needs to be a serious rethink if we are to minimise the harms caused by cannabis use," which would back up former ACMD Chairman Professor Sir Michael Rawlins and the recommendations he gave at the request of the Home Secretary back in March 2008.
According to the report, there are now more than 160 million users of the drug worldwide and at face value that would seem to be enough proof that cannabis is not a fraction of the social issue which comes as a by-product of alcohol abuse.
Which suggests perhaps the further criminalisation of responsible adults who choose to consume cannabis in the privacy of their own homes, is a needless and senseless move on the part of the Home Office?
According to a joint poll run in conjunction with the United Nations and the World Health Organisation (WHO) recently, almost half the population of the United States (41%) admits experimenting with cannabis, and yet psychosis statistics in the US run close to those in the UK at around 1% of the population. which disproves the Home Office and its primary reason for upping the classification of cannabis.
"Although cannabis can have a negative impact on health, including mental health, in terms of relative harms it is considerably less harmful than alcohol or tobacco." A conclusion reached recently by respected medical journal "The Lancet", which found nicotine and alcohol to be far more of a social issue in terms of real harms caused, than cannabis, heroin or cocaine.
"Historically, there have only been two deaths worldwide attributed to cannabis(citation needed), whereas alcohol and tobacco together are responsible for an estimated 150,000 deaths per annum in the UK alone," and this according to governments own figures.
In the United States currently, which is the undoubted world benchmark when it comes to cannabis abuse, 1 in 99 US citizens is in prison for a cannabis charge of some sort, adding weight to the argument against draconian laws against cannabis and its users.
*Do you agree with the reclassification of cannabis? Or do you disagree?
Vernon Coaker was one of the first Cabinet ministers to admit his own cannabis experimentations as a student, and yet today he is a prime mover in the government’s attempts to get cannabis reclassified to a class B drug which brings with it more court appearances, higher fines, and longer prison sentences simply for having a small amount of cannabis in your possession.
Oh a post from another pro-drug dealer Cannabis website...
Right...
Do you even learn.
COUNTER ARGUE IT
COUNTER ARGUE IT
COUNTER ARGUE IT
COUNTER ARGUE IT
COUNTER ARGUE IT
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 04:59 PM
Why cant YOU counter argument, bitch? Cannabis causes suicide, sure. But so does alcohol. Way more, in fact. Thats common sense.
Why can't I counter argument? I can't do something that is a noun.
You mean counter argue right - oh....
You know what I find funny about what you say, I back up the fact that people commit suicide due to Cannabis and you say oh but people die form alcohol too.
So, basically we should ban them all but in your nice caring world - you say let them all die as long as we legalise Cannabis.
No wonder you smoke the stuff. You can't see the wood for the trees.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/kingofthering/comparingdangers.png
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/kingofthering/newscien.jpg
Dependence: How difficult it is for the user to quit, the relapse rate, the percentage of people who eventually become dependent, the rating users give their own need for the substance and the degree to which the substance will be used in the face of evidence that it causes harm.
Withdrawal: Presence and severity of characteristic withdrawal symptoms.
Tolerance: How much of the substance is needed to satisfy increasing cravings for it, and the level of stable need that is eventually reached.
Reinforcement: A measure of the substance's ability, in human and animal tests, to get users to take it again and again, and in preference to other substances.
Intoxication: Though not usually counted as a measure of addiction in itself, the level of intoxication is associated with addiction and increases the personal and social damage a substance may do.
Source: Jack E. Henningfield, PhD for NIDA, Reported by Philip J. Hilts, New York Times, Aug. 2, 1994 "Is Nicotine Addictive? It Depends on Whose Criteria You Use." See, http://drugwarfacts.org/addictiv.htm
2. Deaths from the two substances. There are hundreds of alcohol overdose deaths each year, yet there has never been a marijuana overdose death in history. The consumption of alcohol is also the direct cause of tens of thousands of deaths in the U.S. each year.
In 2001, there were 331 alcohol overdose deaths and 0 marijuana overdose deaths. Source: U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC). http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5337a2.htm
Excessive alcohol consumption is the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States (1) and is associated with multiple adverse health consequences, including liver cirrhosis, various cancers, unintentional injuries, and violence.
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control reported 20,687 “alcohol-induced deaths” (excluding accidents and homicides) in 2003. Source: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/alcohol.htm
The CDC has no reports of “marijuana-induced deaths.” (In reality, there may be 2-5 deaths each year attributed to marijuana, but this article -- http://bbsnews.net/bw2005-02-01.html -- describes how these are actually deaths attributable to other causes but “blamed” on marijuana due to the way the data is collected.)
3. Alcohol is one of the most toxic drugs, and using just 10 times what one would use to get the desired effect can lead to death. Marijuana is one of – if not the – least toxic drugs, requiring thousands times the dose one would use to get the desired effect to lead to death. This “thousands times” is actually theoretical, since there has never been a recorded case of marijuana overdose.
The most toxic recreational drugs, such as GHB (gamma-hydroxybutyrate) and heroin, have a lethal dose less than 10 times their typical effective dose. The largest cluster of substances has a lethal dose that is 10 to 20 times the effective dose: These include cocaine, MDMA (methylenedioxymethamphetamine, often called "ecstasy") and alcohol. A less toxic group of substances, requiring 20 to 80 times the effective dose to cause death, include Rohypnol (flunitrazepam or "roofies") and mescaline (peyote cactus). The least physiologically toxic substances, those requiring 100 to 1,000 times the effective dose to cause death, include psilocybin mushrooms and marijuana, when ingested. I've found no published cases in the English language that document deaths from smoked marijuana, so the actual lethal dose is a mystery. My surmise is that smoking marijuana is more risky than eating it but still safer than getting drunk.
Despite the health risks and social costs, consciousness-altering chemicals have been used for centuries in almost all cultures. So it would be unrealistic to expect that all types of recreational drug use will suddenly cease. Self-management of these substances is extremely difficult, yet modern Western societies have not, in general, developed positive, socially sanctioned rituals as a means of regulating the use of some of the less hazardous recreational drugs. I would argue that we need to do that.
Source: The American Scientist, the Magazine of Sigma Xi, the Scientific Research Society. http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/50773?&print=y
4. Long-term marijuana use is far less harmful than long-term alcohol use.
There is little evidence, however, that long-term cannabis use causes permanent cognitive impairment, nor is there is any clear cause and effect relationship to explain the psychosocial associations.
There are some physical health risks, particularly the possibility of damage to the airways in cannabis smokers. Overall, by comparison with other drugs used mainly for ‘recreational’ purposes, cannabis could be rated to be a relatively safe drug.
Source: Iversen, Leslie. Current Opinion in Pharmacology. Volume 5, Issue 1, February 2005, Pages 69-72. Long-term effects of exposure to cannabis. University of Oxford, Department of Pharmacology.
5. The United Kingdom's Science and Technology Select Committee considers alcohol far more harmful than marijuana.
The committee commissioned an assessment of 20 legal and illegal stimulants in order to bring some logic to the country’s drug classification. Based on this study, they made recommendations to the government, including a recommendation that alcohol be considered among the most harmful drugs. Cannabis was considered significantly less harmful. (See chart below.) As you can see in the chart below, cannabis was recently rescheduled in the UK and is now a Class C substance (with A being the most harmful).
6. There has never been a documented case of lung cancer in a marijuana-only smoker, and recent studies find that marijuana use is not associated with any type of cancer. The same cannot be said for alcohol, which has been found to contribute to a variety of long-term negative health effects, including cancers and cirrhosis of the liver.
It could be interesting to note in the chart the difference between what people usually consider the most likely serious harms associated with marijuana and alcohol. While there has never been a documented case of lung cancer in a marijuana-only smoker, there are clearly thousands of deaths by liver disease directly associated with alcohol – 12,360 in 2003, to be exact. [See, http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/alcohol.htm . Note also on this page that “alcoholic liver disease” is a separate category from “alcohol-induced deaths, excluding accidents and homicides.” Thus the 20,687 cited in #2 (as “deaths from alcohol consumption” could easily be 33,047.]
7. Studies find alcohol use contributes to the likelihood of domestic violence and sexual assault and marijuana use does not.
Of the psychoactive substances examined, among individuals who were chronic partner abusers, the use of alcohol and cocaine was associated with significant increases in the daily likelihood of male-to-female physical aggression; cannabis and opiates were not significantly associated with an increased likelihood of male partner violence.
…the odds of any male-to-female physical aggression were more than 8 times (11 times) higher on days when men drank than on days of no alcohol consumption. The odds of severe male-to-female physical aggression were more than 11 times (11 times) higher on days of men’s drinking than on days of no drinking. Moreover, in both samples, over 60% of all episodes occurred within 2 hours of drinking by the male partner. (page 1557)
Source: Fals-Stewart , William, James Golden, Julie A. Schumacher. Journal of Addictive Behaviors. 28, pages 1555-1574. Intimate partner violence and substance use: A longitudinal day-to-day examination. Research Institute on Addictions, University at Buffalo, State University of New York
8. Studies find alcohol use contributes to aggressive behavior and acts of violence, whereas marijuana use reduces the likelihood of violent behavior.
Alcohol is clearly the drug with the most evidence to support a direct intoxication-violence relationship.
Cannabis reduces likelihood of violence during intoxication…
Source: Hoaken, Peter N.S., Sherry H. Stewart. Journal of Addictive Behaviors. 28, pages 1533-1554. Drugs of abuse and the elicitation of human aggressive behavior. Dept. of Psychology, University of Western Ontario. Dept. of of Psychiatry, Dalhousie University.
9. Alcohol use is highly associated with violent crime, whereas marijuana use is not.
About 3 million violent crimes occur each year in which victims perceive the offender to have been drinking at the time of the offense.
Two-thirds of victims who suffered violence by an intimate (a current or former spouse, boyfriend, or girlfriend) reported that alcohol had been a factor.
Among spouse victims, 3 out of 4 incidents were reported to have involved an offender who had been drinking.
Source: U.S. Department of Justice. Bureau of Justice Statistics. National Crime Victimization Survey 2002.
10. Alcohol use is a catalyst for domestic violence in Denver.
Alcohol is involved in nearly 50 percent of all domestic violence cases in Denver, and the use of alcohol by the perpetrator is a predominant factor in fatal cases of domestic violence.
Marijuana is not mentioned as a correlating or causal factor in cases of domestic violence in Denver.
Source: Abrams, Margaret L., Joanne Belknap, Heather C. Melton. When Domestic Violence Kills: The Formation and Findings of the Denver Metro Domestic Violence Fatality Review Committee. March 2001.
11. Alcohol use is prevalent in cases of sexual assault and date rape on college campuses. Marijuana use is not considered a contributing factor in cases of sexual assault and date rape, as judged by the lack of discussion of marijuana in sexual assault and date rape educational materials.
A Harvard School of Public Heath study found that 72 percent of college rapes occurred when the female was too intoxicated by alcohol to resist/consent. Source: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/cas/Documents/rapeintox-pressRelease/
Comparisons between alcohol and marijuana with respect to sexual assault are very difficult. This is because it does not appear as if marijuana is a significant contributing factor. The best way to "prove" this is through observation that many organizations dedicated to studying and educating about sexual assault do not list marijuana as a substance associated with incidents. Here is a good example from the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network: http://www.rainn.org/types-of-assault/sexual-assault/drug-facilitated-assault.html
Note their description of alcohol: "Alcohol is the most commonly used chemical in drug facilitated sexual assault. In large part this is due to the fact that alcohol is easily accessible and a chemical that many people use in social interactions." Given the fact that marijuana is also "easily accessible" and used widely in "social interactions," it is quite telling that marijuana is not even listed at all on this "Drug Facilitated Assault" page.
Another example: A Web site sponsored by the U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services lists alcohol, but not marijuana, as putting a person at risk for unwanted or risky sexual activity: http://www.4woman.gov/faq/rohypnol.htm#5
OUCH!
setanta
30-09-2009, 05:02 PM
He's not listening Probe. Not worth it. And we haven't even gotten into the benefits of the drug.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:02 PM
This is hysterical.... that video you posted is basically echoing everything that my vid alluded to. Talks about THC and CBD. Do you even watch them?
The scientist in your video is stating the exact same thing. You're actually a right wally.
This just backs up the case you know eff all because you don't understand it.
Well done.
You're just a naive and also idiotic lefty liberal who can't understand anybody who uses big words - it's why it takes you ages to respond and that for only one sentence too.
No, I'm just watching the video and laughing at you for posting it. Hysterical stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2cAFRAX3Gs&feature=player_embedded#t=60
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa6dX1Ok8rY&NR
They're talking about the strains of the drug that are produced for general consumption with are packed with THC. And as for the sitting down and doing nothing, people will use anything to do that.... tv, alcohol, eating you name it. Really really vague end to it with no stats to go with it. As the narrator said, cases of psychosis are extremely RARE.
Setanta - Let me explain things to you.
Number 1 - You're an idiot. ok?
Number 2 - You're really an idiot...
Number 3 - The video states clearly that you lose the medicinal effects from the drug if you increase THC - because the properties favourable cannot exist together. He says that right? I posted the quote earlier in the thread. In your video she clearly shows this - she shows the effects of THC. Now you remove that from Cannabis -
nobody will use it dude because you don't get the buzz...
but it's THC (like it says in the video ( are you still with me)) that has the psychosis properties, the mental health problems.
Why do I have to explain this to you. WHat is wrong with you?
You are thick dude. Seriously you are. YOu post videos that make you look like a mug and then say that you are right?
Seriously - get your act together.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:03 PM
He's not listening Probe. Not worth it. And we haven't even gotten into the benefits of the drug.
PMSL
I have and highlighted the problems with that and you haven't counter argued that either
:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:
You two are jokers. Destroyed so many times. No wonder you need drugs.
Getting whipped like this must be habit for you only getting stoned takes you to the happy place away from the pain of Massive Truck!!
Why cant YOU counter argument, bitch? Cannabis causes suicide, sure. But so does alcohol. Way more, in fact. Thats common sense.
Why can't I counter argument? I can't do something that is a noun.
You mean counter argue right - oh....
You know what I find funny about what you say, I back up the fact that people commit suicide due to Cannabis and you say oh but people die form alcohol too.
So, basically we should ban them all but in your nice caring world - you say let them all die as long as we legalise Cannabis.
No wonder you smoke the stuff. You can't see the wood for the trees.
I dont smoke the stuff. I guess you have choosen to ignore this.
You know nothing about the stuff, as you demonstrated earlier. But you also choose to ignore this.
Contaminations, gang profiteering knock off effects, and prison clogging, and super strenght Cannabis grown by unscrupulous dealers all exist because of illegality. All form the most dangerous parts of Cannabis. But you choose to ignore this.
Alcohol causes more suicide than Cannabis, but you choose to ignore this.
Alcohol causes more road collisions than Alcohol, but you choose to ignore this.
Alcohol costs the taxpayer more, but you choose to ignore this.
Alcohol causes more harm to society, but you choose to ignore this.
More people plead to being an alcoholic than a Cannabis addict, to a ratio that if Cannabis were legal, the point would still stand. You choose to ignore this.
You are nuts, you already said you were going to leave this thread, and you ruin your own arguments by calling us drug dealers and drug users, and freaking out ... which looks a lot like psychosis. But you choose to ignore this.
Ignorance, indeed, is bliss!
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:07 PM
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/kingofthering/comparingdangers.png
Still Comparing.
PMSL
I don't give a shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!
Is that clear?
I am proving the drug Cannabis is bad. You keep posting this shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiite like it matters. DUDE Even your links prove it's a bad drug and has problems.
Can't you get it. You're advocating it's use by saying it's not as "bad" as other drugs.
Newsflash - that still means it's bad. Does that make sense or are you still on this pathetic ride saying "Oh it's not as bad as alcohol, peopel are in mental institutions for it, Massive truck has posted clear statistics showing 1 in 2 people have frequent health problems iwth it and people die because of it but let's legalise it because it's not as bad as alcohol"
You legalise it - it will be bad as alcohol!
Make sense.
Ever wondered why your precious pro-cannabis sites don't post statistics for the increase in health benefits during prohibition.
You kind of lose the argument that's why.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:08 PM
Why cant YOU counter argument, bitch? Cannabis causes suicide, sure. But so does alcohol. Way more, in fact. Thats common sense.
Why can't I counter argument? I can't do something that is a noun.
You mean counter argue right - oh....
You know what I find funny about what you say, I back up the fact that people commit suicide due to Cannabis and you say oh but people die form alcohol too.
So, basically we should ban them all but in your nice caring world - you say let them all die as long as we legalise Cannabis.
No wonder you smoke the stuff. You can't see the wood for the trees.
I dont smoke the stuff. I guess you have choosen to ignore this.
You know nothing about the stuff, as you demonstrated earlier. But you also choose to ignore this.
Contaminations, gang profiteering knock off effects, and prison clogging, and super strenght Cannabis grown by unscrupulous dealers all exist because of illegality. All form the most dangerous parts of Cannabis. But you choose to ignore this.
Alcohol causes more suicide than Cannabis, but you choose to ignore this.
Alcohol causes more road collisions than Alcohol, but you choose to ignore this.
Alcohol costs the taxpayer more, but you choose to ignore this.
Alcohol causes more harm to society, but you choose to ignore this.
More people plead to being an alcoholic than a Cannabis addict, to a ratio that if Cannabis were legal, the point would still stand. You choose to ignore this.
You are nuts, you already said you were going to leave this thread, and you ruin your own arguments by calling us drug dealers and drug users, and freaking out ... which looks a lot like psychosis. But you choose to ignore this.
Ignorance, indeed, is bliss!
Clear question
Alcohol kills people
Cannabis kills people
Why do you want to legalise it?
Does it make sense - Ignorance is indeed bliss.
I think it hurts what I post or I think you just don't understand academic texts.
setanta
30-09-2009, 05:08 PM
This is hysterical.... that video you posted is basically echoing everything that my vid alluded to. Talks about THC and CBD. Do you even watch them?
The scientist in your video is stating the exact same thing. You're actually a right wally.
This just backs up the case you know eff all because you don't understand it.
Well done.
You're just a naive and also idiotic lefty liberal who can't understand anybody who uses big words - it's why it takes you ages to respond and that for only one sentence too.
No, I'm just watching the video and laughing at you for posting it. Hysterical stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2cAFRAX3Gs&feature=player_embedded#t=60
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa6dX1Ok8rY&NR
They're talking about the strains of the drug that are produced for general consumption with are packed with THC. And as for the sitting down and doing nothing, people will use anything to do that.... tv, alcohol, eating you name it. Really really vague end to it with no stats to go with it. As the narrator said, cases of psychosis are extremely RARE.
Setanta - Let me explain things to you.
Number 1 - You're an idiot. ok?
Number 2 - You're really an idiot...
Number 3 - The video states clearly that you lose the medicinal effects from the drug if you increase THC - because the properties favourable cannot exist together. He says that right? I posted the quote earlier in the thread. In your video she clearly shows this - she shows the effects of THC. Now you remove that from Cannabis -
nobody will use it dude because you don't get the buzz...
but it's THC (like it says in the video ( are you still with me)) that has the psychosis properties, the mental health problems.
Why do I have to explain this to you. WHat is wrong with you?
You are thick dude. Seriously you are. YOu post videos that make you look like a mug and then say that you are right?
Seriously - get your act together.
What a selective viewer you are. This is really really hilarious stuff. The video I showed you was a girl who was given an equal balance of THC and CBD and she had a great high!!
Your scientist even says that they coexist together. Are you really this moronic in real life?
So I suppose you are no longer arguing that Cannabis is more dangerous than alcohol?
Can you do simple maths? Create some ratios. If Cannabis were legalised and if it's userbase increased a hundredfold, it still would not compare to Alcohol. And most negative aspects of Cannabis come form it's illegal status.
Oh dear!
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:11 PM
So I suppose you are no longer arguing that Cannabis is more dangerous than alcohol?
Can you do simple maths? Create some ratios. If Cannabis were legalised and if it's userbase increased a hundredfold, it still would not compare to Alcohol. And most negative aspects of Cannabis come form it's illegal status.
Oh dear!
Well the maths is straight forward. If every regular user has mental health probelms and the increase in clinics since the down grading had problems then it will have more problems then alcohol in relation to and with evidence of rehab clinic rise in Holland, Portugal and California where it out numbers Alcohol related health intakes.
But I HAVE ALREADY SAID THIS IN THIS THREAD AND I HAVE PROVIDED EVIDENCE AND FACTS FOR THIS
BUT
YOU CHOOSE TO IGNORE THAT. DON'T YOU!!!!
Is it hard for you to accept that all those links I produce rubbishes everything you say and you hide and cowardly run around other things instead.
You have lost. OK?
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:13 PM
This is hysterical.... that video you posted is basically echoing everything that my vid alluded to. Talks about THC and CBD. Do you even watch them?
The scientist in your video is stating the exact same thing. You're actually a right wally.
This just backs up the case you know eff all because you don't understand it.
Well done.
You're just a naive and also idiotic lefty liberal who can't understand anybody who uses big words - it's why it takes you ages to respond and that for only one sentence too.
No, I'm just watching the video and laughing at you for posting it. Hysterical stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2cAFRAX3Gs&feature=player_embedded#t=60
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa6dX1Ok8rY&NR
They're talking about the strains of the drug that are produced for general consumption with are packed with THC. And as for the sitting down and doing nothing, people will use anything to do that.... tv, alcohol, eating you name it. Really really vague end to it with no stats to go with it. As the narrator said, cases of psychosis are extremely RARE.
Setanta - Let me explain things to you.
Number 1 - You're an idiot. ok?
Number 2 - You're really an idiot...
Number 3 - The video states clearly that you lose the medicinal effects from the drug if you increase THC - because the properties favourable cannot exist together. He says that right? I posted the quote earlier in the thread. In your video she clearly shows this - she shows the effects of THC. Now you remove that from Cannabis -
nobody will use it dude because you don't get the buzz...
but it's THC (like it says in the video ( are you still with me)) that has the psychosis properties, the mental health problems.
Why do I have to explain this to you. WHat is wrong with you?
You are thick dude. Seriously you are. YOu post videos that make you look like a mug and then say that you are right?
Seriously - get your act together.
What a selective viewer you are. This is really really hilarious stuff. The video I showed you was a girl who was given an equal balance of THC and CBD and she had a great high!!
Your scientist even says that they coexist together. Are you really this moronic in real life?
THis just proves how little you know abotu the subject.
And how little you've read.
I'm not going to bother with you on this one.
I have already provided evidence and facts and stats showing Even though she looke dlike she was laughing the drug still has an irreversible effect?
OK.... The evidence is out there I have provided it
ARe you too stupid or just too afraid to admit that I have posted it?
So I suppose you are no longer arguing that Cannabis is more dangerous than alcohol?
Can you do simple maths? Create some ratios. If Cannabis were legalised and if it's userbase increased a hundredfold, it still would not compare to Alcohol. And most negative aspects of Cannabis come form it's illegal status.
Oh dear!
Well the maths is straight forward. If every regular user has mental health probelms and the increase in clinics since the down grading had problems then it will have more problems then alcohol in relation to and with evidence of rehab clinic rise in Holland, Portugal and California where it out numbers Alcohol related health intakes.
But I HAVE ALREADY SAID THIS IN THIS THREAD AND I HAVE PROVIDED EVIDENCE AND FACTS FOR THIS
BUT
YOU CHOOSE TO IGNORE THAT. DON'T YOU!!!!
Is it hard for you to accept that all those links I produce rubbishes everything you say and you hide and cowardly run around other things instead.
You have lost. OK?
Problems have grown since it's downgrading only because Skunk became more prevalent. Simple.
Virtually all your links relating to mental health exist as a DIRECT RESULT OF CANNABIS BEING ILLEGAL.
If it were legal, the Cannabis produced would be of a high quality with high levels of anti psychotics and anti anxiety agents thrown in the mix.
You are name calling and using caps an awful lot, as well as telling lies about me and setanta being drug users.
Are you sure your not going crazy?
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:14 PM
This is getting stupid. You're posting things that are already provided in evidence in all the links I have posted.
I'll just do that again.
If you have a question about cannabis - refer to the post I will make. The answer is in there. OK?
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:14 PM
So I suppose you are no longer arguing that Cannabis is more dangerous than alcohol?
Can you do simple maths? Create some ratios. If Cannabis were legalised and if it's userbase increased a hundredfold, it still would not compare to Alcohol. And most negative aspects of Cannabis come form it's illegal status.
Oh dear!
Well the maths is straight forward. If every regular user has mental health probelms and the increase in clinics since the down grading had problems then it will have more problems then alcohol in relation to and with evidence of rehab clinic rise in Holland, Portugal and California where it out numbers Alcohol related health intakes.
But I HAVE ALREADY SAID THIS IN THIS THREAD AND I HAVE PROVIDED EVIDENCE AND FACTS FOR THIS
BUT
YOU CHOOSE TO IGNORE THAT. DON'T YOU!!!!
Is it hard for you to accept that all those links I produce rubbishes everything you say and you hide and cowardly run around other things instead.
You have lost. OK?
Problems have grown since it's downgrading only because Skunk became more prevalent. Simple.
Virtually all your links relating to mental health exist as a DIRECT RESULT OF CANNABIS BEING ILLEGAL.
If it were legal, the Cannabis produced would be of a high quality with high levels of anti psychotics and anti anxiety agents thrown in the mix.
You are name calling and using caps an awful lot, as well as telling lies about me and setanta being drug users.
Are you sure your not going crazy?
Nah. I'm just dealing with people who can't read.
So I suppose you are no longer arguing that Cannabis is more dangerous than alcohol?
Can you do simple maths? Create some ratios. If Cannabis were legalised and if it's userbase increased a hundredfold, it still would not compare to Alcohol. And most negative aspects of Cannabis come form it's illegal status.
Oh dear!
Well the maths is straight forward. If every regular user has mental health probelms and the increase in clinics since the down grading had problems then it will have more problems then alcohol in relation to and with evidence of rehab clinic rise in Holland, Portugal and California where it out numbers Alcohol related health intakes.
But I HAVE ALREADY SAID THIS IN THIS THREAD AND I HAVE PROVIDED EVIDENCE AND FACTS FOR THIS
BUT
YOU CHOOSE TO IGNORE THAT. DON'T YOU!!!!
Is it hard for you to accept that all those links I produce rubbishes everything you say and you hide and cowardly run around other things instead.
You have lost. OK?
Problems have grown since it's downgrading only because Skunk became more prevalent. Simple.
Virtually all your links relating to mental health exist as a DIRECT RESULT OF CANNABIS BEING ILLEGAL.
If it were legal, the Cannabis produced would be of a high quality with high levels of anti psychotics and anti anxiety agents thrown in the mix.
You are name calling and using caps an awful lot, as well as telling lies about me and setanta being drug users.
Are you sure your not going crazy?
Nah. I'm just dealing with people who can't read.
What an excellent argument, you saint :).
This is hillarious.
setanta
30-09-2009, 05:17 PM
This is hysterical.... that video you posted is basically echoing everything that my vid alluded to. Talks about THC and CBD. Do you even watch them?
The scientist in your video is stating the exact same thing. You're actually a right wally.
This just backs up the case you know eff all because you don't understand it.
Well done.
You're just a naive and also idiotic lefty liberal who can't understand anybody who uses big words - it's why it takes you ages to respond and that for only one sentence too.
No, I'm just watching the video and laughing at you for posting it. Hysterical stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2cAFRAX3Gs&feature=player_embedded#t=60
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa6dX1Ok8rY&NR
They're talking about the strains of the drug that are produced for general consumption with are packed with THC. And as for the sitting down and doing nothing, people will use anything to do that.... tv, alcohol, eating you name it. Really really vague end to it with no stats to go with it. As the narrator said, cases of psychosis are extremely RARE.
Setanta - Let me explain things to you.
Number 1 - You're an idiot. ok?
Number 2 - You're really an idiot...
Number 3 - The video states clearly that you lose the medicinal effects from the drug if you increase THC - because the properties favourable cannot exist together. He says that right? I posted the quote earlier in the thread. In your video she clearly shows this - she shows the effects of THC. Now you remove that from Cannabis -
nobody will use it dude because you don't get the buzz...
but it's THC (like it says in the video ( are you still with me)) that has the psychosis properties, the mental health problems.
Why do I have to explain this to you. WHat is wrong with you?
You are thick dude. Seriously you are. YOu post videos that make you look like a mug and then say that you are right?
Seriously - get your act together.
What a selective viewer you are. This is really really hilarious stuff. The video I showed you was a girl who was given an equal balance of THC and CBD and she had a great high!!
Your scientist even says that they coexist together. Are you really this moronic in real life?
THis just proves how little you know abotu the subject.
And how little you've read.
I'm not going to bother with you on this one.
I have already provided evidence and facts and stats showing Even though she looke dlike she was laughing the drug still has an irreversible effect?
OK.... The evidence is out there I have provided it
ARe you too stupid or just too afraid to admit that I have posted it?
That shows what exactly? That THC and CBD can't coexist together? You'll literally say anything to prove your point when the fact is that CBD counters any illeffects that THC may have on a smoker and that both can be found in the same plant.
YOUR scientist even says this and mentions that people have smoked it for centuries you moron. The only difference right now is the sh$tty quality marijuana on the streets that's THC heavy.
YOUR scientist even says this and mentions that people have smoked it for centuries you moron. The only difference right now is the sh$tty quality marijuana on the streets that's THC heavy.
It's not so much THC heavy. You can still have great Cannabis with high THC, but the ratios need to be balanced.
But it's pointless arguing about the chemical make-up of Cannabis. He thought Cannabidiol, CBD, THC, and Cannabinoids were all seperate things. He has no idea what he is talking about. Why you think his argument relies so heavily on just googled links? The veil has fallen.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:20 PM
I'll also post this in a new thread so if you have any questions you have easy access about Cannabis
The truth about Cannabis
That means not stoner videos and misinterpretations you make. Oh... just realised you'll probably see this through the lefty liberal idealistic unreal wonderland. Anyway, I'm a giver, I'll try.
Here you go. Counter argue these.
I have posted studies - the height of your intelligence is posting videos uploaded by Stoners on Youtube. Well done.
Now - welcome to the big leagues.
Let's see if after asking for the 50th time you can counter argue all of this.
Here we go again - part 50. Let's see if you can do it. :thumbs:
Let me start by saying, if you accept my view on things, fine, I will disappear.
If you abuse and insult and make out you know better without evidence, then I will return.
Well I don't know if it's your lack of knowledge, your ignorance to facts or your inability to answer and respond to questions that makes me laugh or in fact the videos you post from the pro cannabis council - or maybe it's your need to hurl insults and abuse that makes me laugh a lot.
For instance Probe Eight, you basically repeat yourself about he same thing. It can be responded with the simple answer as -
it's propoganda you're posting that has no relevance to the global problem and ignores it as well.
Those videos for instance. They are biassed. You do know that all those pro-cannabis websites don't have an iota of evidence for what they say.
While Setanta you think that if you put yourself forward as smart or intelligent then you can get away from answering questions, mainly by belittling the person you are responding to.
You seem to think the mental health problem is due to hydroponics but that's not true either because most people take Cannabis for it's high THC content and therefore need these types of strains to feel sedated and basically escape from their lives. All Cannabis has these problems (see small number of links below)
You do know that Portugal only legalised drugs because of the massive drug problem they had (which was causing problems for the economy) so they decided to tax insurance companies and create rehab treatment and other ventures to make money from addicts. People in rehab in Portugal is through the roof by the way - and this due to decriminalising of drugs - so it makes it easier to be an addict? Get it.
Portugal has stopped targeting drug dealers and instead just shove people into rehab. They are still there, it's just their life is easier - which... erm... is what I just told you? Yeah.
Please, join the dots. It's not hard.
I mean seriously, criminals will disappear because users will buy their stock from shops... erm... yeah... that will happen, I am sure... if you're naive that is. Wow...!
Anyway, cutting a long story short... I might as well just post some links for you to respond to.
Before you read them, realise that some people, in fact the vast majority of people have a life and they don't need drugs and you forget about the peopel who have families, friends and health systems who have to struggle due to drugs.
Go for it. It's liberty isn't it - not mine but at least I care. That's the difference between me and you.
Reply to these. Enjoy.
Cannabis alters DNA, lowers immunity, heightens disease risks
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cannabis-alters-human-dna-increases-cancer-risk-study/477395/1
Schizophrenia link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2407027.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4486548.stm
Marijuana withdrawal symptom
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/display/article/10168/54701?verify=0
Rise in drug deaths due to Cannabis rise
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-402939/Cannabis-downgrade-coincides-drug-deaths-rise.html
Problems with drug dealers and rise in crime due to downgrading
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3641562/Cannabis-smokers-need-to-be-locked-up.html
Cannabis could kill thousands
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2995275.stm
Cannabis use, hundreds of deaths a year
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1445718/Cannabis-use-causes-hundreds-of-deaths-a-year-coroner-warns.html
Cannabis users five times more prone to violence
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cannabis-alters-human-dna-increases-cancer-risk-study/477395/1
Drug use spirals - review drug laws
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23369774-review-of-cannabis-laws-as-drug-fuelled-violence-spirals.do;jsessionid=4FD8DE71E58F8F8E6C944CBF228B DB97
Portugal's (and other country's) soft use on cannabis causes problems elsewhere
http://www.lca-uk.org/news/shownewsarticle.php?articleid=14736
Problems in dealing with drug related problems
http://www.springerlink.com/content/m72755578r724363/
Decriminalisation in portugal leading to lowering of drug use is due to fiddling of statististics
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html
Portugal's rise in drug treatment rockets due to decriminilization
http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/html.cfm/index35987EN.html
Marijuana withdrawal and nightmares
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=7a9ff5eb915f28d357ec88f618e5557b&t=95618
Rise in rehab due to cannabis downgrade
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5151760/Cannabis-downgrade-saw-drug-treatment-need-double.html
Problems with studying cannabis due to strains and mental health issues and side effects
http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld199798/ldselect/ldsctech/151/15107.htm#a12
Schizophrenia/psychosis and cannabis
http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/content/?id=30
Problems with drug treatment with sex offenders due to legalisation in California
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/us/27parole.html?hp
Drug trafficking in Canada leads to Murder capital (take note of legalisation effects here!!)
http://www.vancouversun.com/farming+community+becomes+Canada+murder+capital/1968138/story.html
Drug trouble in Canada's Paradise
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8231534.stm
Marijuana and testicular cancer
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/16/health/he-marijuana16
Cannabis and suicide
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/letters/article3953555.ece
http://www.abc.net.au/health/minutes/stories/s473102.htm
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2451150/Driver-let-teen-burn-to-death.html
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,23727652-5007061,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/405259.stm
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/154/154247_cannabis_blamed_for_students_suicide.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1156893.ece
http://www.eastbourneherald.co.uk/hailsham-news/Depressed-mum-hanged-herself-while.5260493.jp
http://www.lep.co.uk/news/Hanged-man-had-suffered-depression.5276374.jp
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23411179-mother-blames-cannabis-for-suicide-of-promising-violinist-daughter.do;jsessionid=F2F689360D4FEA2718C4FE611DD B7A19
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1562326/One-cannabis-joint-led-to-our-girls-suicide.html
Canada's Drug Crime rate due to decriminilising
http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/canada/2009/09/17/10955301.html
Drug rehab for kids on cannabis
http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/eadt/news/story.aspx?brand=EADOnline&category=News&tBrand=EADOnline&tCategory=xDefault&itemid=IPED24%20May%202009%2019%3A20%3A48%3A330
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/children_shealth/5351020/Children-treated-for-cannabis-misuse-at-rate-of-150-a-week.html
http://www.wellsphere.com/wellpage/marijuana-rehab
Addiction
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/04/the-cannabis-closet-addiction.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/caitlin_moran/article5946633.ece
Mental Illness
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/mental-illness-soars-in-uks-skunk-hotspots-397449.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-410765/8-10-mentally-ill-patients-heavy-cannabis-users.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080602160845.htm
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin/gnmRouteur/showabstract.pl?a=720114&cid=317?loggedIn=false&lecture=1
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin/gnmRouteur/showabstract.pl?a=695543&cid=317?loggedIn=false&lecture=1
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin/gnmRouteur/showabstract.pl?a=472914&cid=317?loggedIn=false&lecture=1
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?C=94252400836191319444&xml=/headlines/2008/06_june/week_23/cannabis_use_linked_to_adolescent_prodromal_sympto ms_of_psychosis.xml
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?xml=/headlines/2007/08/week_32/20070803cannabis_increases_psychosis_risk.xml
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?xml=/headlines/2007/05/week_20/20070514cannabis_use_may_prompt_transition_to_psyc hosis.xml
http://www.primarypsychiatry.com/aspx/ArticleDetail.aspx?articleid=2038
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/cannabis-an-apology-440730.html
http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/content/?id=27
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1B-4P8SSFV-13&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=6975b0a51f9ca7dfeda98f9ab41ded86
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-471106/Smoking-just-cannabis-joint-raises-danger-mental-illness-40.html
http://www.southendstandard.co.uk/news/southend/4414773.Man_died_after_being_restrained_by_police/
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/headlines/fullpage.asp?C=68384399760077662037&xml=/headlines/2009/06_june/week_23/headline4.xml&em=robert.pires@ntlworld.com
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/66/1/95?home
Dutch problems with Cannabis
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ilyOg9TbJFHHqnSpG82yJ8piAGlg
California problems with cannabis
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may/21/opinion/oe-maher21
Drug dependency in newborns
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/one-in-500-babies-now-born-drug-dependent-1693502.html
Causal association between cannabis and psychosis
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/184/2/110
Slavery and Cannabis
http://www.newstatesman.com/law-and-reform/2008/11/cannabis-farms-children
Cannabis overdose
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/2009/05/22/primitives-star-steve-dullaghan-killed-by-too-much-cannabis-92746-23684609/2/
Pharmaceutical, clinically developed drug so no need to smoke cannabis for MS
http://www.pharmafocus.com/cda/focusH/1,2109,21-0-0-MAY_2009-focus_news_detail-0-492783,00.html
Skunk Knife murderer
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23667963-knife-murderer-made-paranoid-by-skunk-is-jailed-for-20-years.do;jsessionid=4B4F0428A249FE7C6FD6DE77E0635A 80
Psychotic Cannabis user knifes policeman
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23661166-details/Psychotic+cannabis+user+stabbed+policeman+to+death/article.do
Cannabis induced driver leaves girlfriend for dead
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2451150/Driver-let-teen-burn-to-death.html
More on pharmaceutical use of cannabis to stop "recreational use"
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/05/what-happens-when-pot-isnt-pot-anymore.html
Man stabbed to death
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1190606/Stabbed-death-confronting-drug-gang-supplied-schoolboy-brother.html
Portugal fall in crime rate is due to decriminilisation - problems still rife
http://www.addictionpro.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=440B847037BC4AFA8B377E381E9C548D&nm=&type=Blog&mod=View+Topic&mid=67D6564029914AD3B204AD35D8F5F780&tier=7&id=3DC20617AD9A4539AFB52AD812DC3644
Although the report does not make this case itself, perhaps the most radical interpretation of comparative international data like this is that the specific penalties (or lack thereof) in place have less impact on drug use patterns (for better or worse) than we’re often inclined to think …
Drug peddling
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/4428662.Brighton_children_used_by_drug_dealers_to_ deliver_cocaine_by_bicycle/
"recreational" effects on family
http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-express/news/2488567/Son-pleaded-with-dope-dealer-father
Drug enduced fatal accident
http://austriantimes.at/index.php?id=14004
Cannabis used as rape drug
http://www.3news.co.nz/News/NationalNews/Man-accused-of-raping-13-year-old-girl-remanded-until-June-26/tabid/423/articleID/106063/cat/64/Default.aspx
I loved destroying you here the most by the way. I laughed so much and I didn't need any drugs to induce that. Honestly I didn't. THat might be hard to believe but I don't need drugs to have pleasure. It's just I've been brought up like that.
Maybe go to Portugal and see all the Cannabis sufferers in the rehab clinics the Government is making millions in tax from.
Maybe go to California, and take the Cannabis straight out of the hands of people suffering from a range of ailments, whose only grace and relief is Cannabis. Go on. Save the world. You hero, you.
I am not responsible for people smoking Cannabis going insane. The fact is, and make no mistake about it, this is a fact, anybody who wants Cannabis can get it. It's not hard. So make it legal, make it safer, and make it cleaner.
They fuel an industry that exploits people by selling a drug to them
In addition to failing to respond to the actual FACT I had laid out that stated more people benefit from Cannabis, even on a recreational basis, than suffer from it, you also just provided an argument for legalization. Shot in the foot. Well done.
But wait ... whats this ... you think people would STILL risk going to dealers for cheaper Cannabis when they could GROW IT FOR FREE?
Says it all.
All chronic users suffer from life long problems by the way. But you chose to ignore that.
Yes. Because it is not a verified scientific fact. ALL users? Bit of a bold claim, even by your standards.
BUT here is what kills poor old MassiveTruck off...
You should really consider reading up on CBD, Cannabidiols, Canniboids and also THC too. Really know the difference man. Seriously.
CBD is Cannabidiol. THC and CBD are both Cannabinoids [as opposed to 'Canniboids']. Yet you mention all three as being EXCLUSIVE of one another. You really have no idea, do you?
The lack of THC and the higher the CBD - means no sedation.
Wrong. High CBD creates Indica strains of the plant. Known for a high sedation and body stone. As opposed to Sativa strains where THC is more dominant, characterized by a more 'trippy' head high.
There are strains of Cannabis out there that provide no sedation at all. But what does it matter. You had no idea what CBD was to begin with, considering you mentioned it separately to both Cannabidiol and a Cannabinoid, even though CBD IS Cannabidiol and Cannabidiol IS A CANNABINOID.
And then you tell ME in the same sentence you formed around your errors to read up on it?
Your dead in the water. Post all the meaningless s*** you want back. Rational people still know a legal Cannabis market is safer than an illegal one. The amount of people who develop problems from Cannabis is a tiny fraction of the overall userbase. Most of these problems come from Cannabis that could be ended if it were made legal. A ****ing meerkat could understand that logic.
Enough of this mess. I am no longer wasting time arguing with a bully who loves to goad others into arguments to then make them feel terrible about themselves. Your remarks about sedation, THC and the other components of Cannabis prove to me you have no idea what you are talking about and you are currently in the process of schooling yourself about Cannabis just to make some people feel terrible about themselves.
So go ahead, post ANYTHING you like back. It matters not. Not after this...
You should really consider reading up on CBD, Cannabidiols, Canniboids and also THC too. Really know the difference man. Seriously.
So we have four separate things, all of which I should know the difference between?
Now, over to your precious Wikipedia...
Cannabidiol, also known as CBD, is a cannabinoid found in Cannabis.
Oh dear me! Your cover has just been blown! Post back with what you like, wind up merchant, but you have NO idea what you are talking about! Why should anybody bother to reply to your points? Your finished!
LOL! Now thats put me in the mood for a smoke!
Hmm... You actually think people will grow enough Cannabis for themselves? That's illogical and not possible... That's why crime will rise 10 fold without it.
How many plants for how many spliffs? Do you see how it's impossible?
This is why crime will rise as crime (with the evidence I have shown you) has risen in Portugal, Canada, US and all across Europe to traffic in drugs to countries where it is legal...
Yeah? Come on...
I have given evidence for this but you're trying to make out there is truth to this.
I would love to know if you can actually reply to everything I posted instead of manipulating tit bits to make it sound like I got something wrong. Is that possible?
I mean, you just twisted something I said and said I was wrong (when I wasn't) and then said you're going to get a smoke.
Anywhere, here is a link regarding THC and the sedating effect to rubbish your misinformed view about sedation.
Enjoy... (I doubt)
This is from a BBC documentary. This is a showing a plant where they are removing "good products" from "certain cannabis plants" which have have Cannabinoid properties beneficial to medicinal gains.
You should really read up. READ UP... because in the real world, (away from the idiots writing on Wiki) people will laugh at you totally.
Read those links I posted. This is free advice. Nobody else will give it you.
Watch from 1:51 - this was on the BBC a while back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa6dX1Ok8rY&NR
Take note he talks about run of the mill Cannabis strains with anti-psychotic properties. Google this guy - he has studied Cannabis for years. Move on to where he is
"as recreational cannabis plants are grown for higher THC content so their CBD content (medicinal properties!!!!) falls, simply because the plant is unable (operative word!!) to produce high level of both"
Read up.
Free advice. Because you haven't got a clue.
You have sidestepped a lot of what I have said and I have responded to you with evidence. Clear as it is.
Your views on California are flawed! Utterly.
And...
I've had enough.
There is evidence against everything you say.
You make out because Alcohol (which is legal, probably the reason why if you think about it) kills more people, then Cannabis should be legal.
No consideration for all the suicides, the terrorist opportunism and the countless problems with it.
Carry on.
If this is the beliefs you love. Enjoy.
Before I go - Some studies
Suicide and Cannabis by the way
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/120836181/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
Oh and a twins study with cannabis and suicide
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/61/10/1026
I love this one
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T63-4DFNDK1-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1025988683&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=18033bc2b2cb2efdc085f36f697418a9
Early-onset of cannabis use by females (but not for males) signaled excess risk for suicide ideation (RR = 2.9; p = 0.006).
You'll love this
http://pt.wkhealth.com/pt/re/addi/abstract.00008514-200209000-00010.htm;jsessionid=K1YM1nD9kbqSXRsxFDPvgZhGf0R11 K2GYG2dVyr6SYjQKrb7nZld!-670034922!181195628!8091!-1
Cannabis use, and particularly regular or heavy use, was associated with increased rates of a range of adjustment problems in adolescence/young adulthood-other illicit drug use, crime, depression and suicidal behaviours-with these adverse effects being most evident for school-aged regular users. The findings reinforce public health concerns about minimizing the use of cannabis among school-aged populations.
Oh erm... cannabinoids and suicide risk due to the endocannabinoid system - wow - it's in our brains already so it triggers suicide. WOW!
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1K-4KPFKC2-2&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1025987699&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=a77d024e7b0742a1f0c9ed575ac017af
Just before I go. You know, there are alike hundreds of studies like this. Studying suicide rates amongst cannabis users. Off the top of my head - that's like thousands, just for the studies. WOWZER!!!
Just a taster of what you're supporting.
Enjoy!
..
.
.
.
And you're still posting websites that I've already responded to, stating that of course young adults would be illequiped to deal with any type of drug and those studies also indicate that there's an awful lot of other factors involved, including genetic predisposition. What I'm basically trying to state is that we all realise that every type of drug can be abused and can have a terrible effect on the young and those who are susceptible to mental illness, but it's your hypocrisy that really is astounding considering that there are many drugs that are far more dangerous. I've already answered this!!
You just continue on your quest, without listening to or reading any other surveys that we've posted. And we're not on a mission to demonise other drugs here; just trying to have a balanced conversation here regarding the drug and yet you continue to post isolated incidents of acts of violence that sometimes have a tenuous link to cannabis. Should I post ones relating to alcohol? Or maybe eating disorders,etc? This is all about people having a choice and taking the power out of the criminals hands, so that the drug can be monitored, controlled and the quality of the product can be insured.
Surveys you've posted? What surveys?
Oh right... I get it, now you're lying in order to show people that you have actually posted something legible when you haven't posted anything legible at all.
Oh right... so you resort to lying (a bit like in the Muse thread as well..? Yeah? OK) in order to save face.
Counter argue what is written. I dare you, I double dare you.
Go for it.
Here are some facts for you to chew on.
http://www.idmu.co.uk/cannabis/cannabis-use-in-britain.html
Scroll down to Health Problems and you'll see the effect it has on 1 in 2 users of Cannabis. Regular users have regular problems with the drug.
Problems range from
Headache, Paranoia, Chest Problems, Panic Attacks, Anxiety, Psychosis, Apathy,
Running out (addiction) 6.3% of users suffer from this all the time, that is 1 in 20, 1 in 3 suffer from this more than occasionally).
Balance, Motor Skills (accidents) and Vomiting.
Now compare problems to frequency of use. You see a clear relationship that those who take it regularly have problems with the drug. In light of this every individual who takes it regularly has some problems with it on a regular basis BUT
They still take the drug.
Then you have the nerve, the audacity, the arrogance, the ego to say that, oh it's just kids oh it's just a few people, oh it's just the criminals. How dare you. How the hell dare you ignore all I have put forward and lie your way through everything you say to save face. Your position on this is null.
You have no grounds at all to counter argue - because you do not understand any of the stuff I posted.
That is the bottom line to this.
I posted numerous recent studies on suicide and mental illness, and you ignored it. The laughable factor is you try and save face by saying you know that it gets abused - well hey what genius - take a look at the statistics and look at the effects of the abuse.
You then have the pathetic nerve to say everybody will grow their plants in their home. If it's that cheap and convenient - why isn't everybody doing it now? Oh I guess you're going to say it's illegal - that was your excuse.
Christ you do make me laugh.
Like I said, and listen up clearly.
You don't have faith in the government when it's illegal but oddly, pathetically, laughably, you seem to have faith in the government when it is legal?
That has to be the most funniest contradiction ever. The most widely used drug in the country will lead to massive fashion to grow Marijuana in every household and criminals will disappear.
The naivety is insane
Anyway, just going to requote the stuff you haven't replied to yet, for your benefit.
Well done.
So there you have it. Statistical evidence against Marijuana legalisation.
It highlights how it is abused for medicinal purposes. Abused by people for medicinal purposes. The mental health problems for ALL EVERY user and a counter argument that is indeniable and completely breakable
IF YOU READ IT!!!
Deal with it but hey - everybody needs their something - even a bunch of losers who need Cannabis. WEll done this is your life. Don't know about music, don't know about drugs!
LOLZ.
There. Thats what you deserve. I am chilled, and ultimately, rational. It's just fun to wind you up at this point.
setanta
30-09-2009, 05:22 PM
YOUR scientist even says this and mentions that people have smoked it for centuries you moron. The only difference right now is the sh$tty quality marijuana on the streets that's THC heavy.
It's not so much THC heavy. You can still have great Cannabis with high THC, but the ratios need to be balanced.
But it's pointless arguing about the chemical make-up of Cannabis. He thought Cannabidiol, CBD, THC, and Cannabinoids were all seperate things. He has no idea what he is talking about. Why you think his argument relies so heavily on just googled links? The veil has fallen.
Yes, you just have to get the right balance but sure this lad doesn't even think you can have the two in the same plant. lol. What are we doing talking to a wally like this for?
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:23 PM
A rejected amoeba from the evolutionary cycles of life would accept defeat at this point but you're still ranting about stuff you don't understand.
Funny thing is - you say you don't smoke it either...
ANyway - there you are above. All the answers.
I'm off to... ignore you. :joker::joker:
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:24 PM
LOLZ.
There. Thats what you deserve. I am chilled, and ultimately, rational. It's just fun to wind you up at this point.
Wind me up?
I'm just happy I've realised with your lack of intellect not even a piece of dust would listen to you.
You've got the skills of comprehension only found in communist dictators pre world war 2.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:25 PM
YOUR scientist even says this and mentions that people have smoked it for centuries you moron. The only difference right now is the sh$tty quality marijuana on the streets that's THC heavy.
It's not so much THC heavy. You can still have great Cannabis with high THC, but the ratios need to be balanced.
But it's pointless arguing about the chemical make-up of Cannabis. He thought Cannabidiol, CBD, THC, and Cannabinoids were all seperate things. He has no idea what he is talking about. Why you think his argument relies so heavily on just googled links? The veil has fallen.
Yes, you just have to get the right balance but sure this lad doesn't even think you can have the two in the same plant. lol. What are we doing talking to a wally like this for?
Dude. Do you have problems reading things? Comprehending things.
I'm serious because I mean I can see Probe eight just argues something out of youthful naivety and lives in denial but you twist things that are presented and act as though they are fact.
What was school like. I'm serious. I'm not winding you up or anything... did you struggle?
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/kingofthering/untitled-25.jpg
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:28 PM
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/kingofthering/untitled-25.jpg
Erm....
Why are you laughing.
That proves you're in the wrong... You think those stats are in your favour? Compare them to regular users and frequency of use.
Oh God I'm dealing with peopel who can't read statistics too!
setanta
30-09-2009, 05:28 PM
He doesn't read them probe.... scans them and thinks he's got the jist. The video was the classic and then he says that you can't get CBD and THC in the same plant. Crazy stuff.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:30 PM
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/kingofthering/untitled-25.jpg
Look
I'll explain it to you ok because you're struggling.
Add up more than occasionally. That's a lot of times still. Like once a week or something.
That's always up to about half users and if you look at the regularity then that is a lot of people.
What you did was see 1.6% and think that is low. That is for all of th etime - they are still smoking it too while they suffer bad health so they are addicted and that's why they do it.
Really - learn how to read stats.
This is evidence you're in the wrong. You just don't know how to read stats.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:31 PM
Oh and by the way - those stats are pre Skunk...
:joker::joker:
you keep calling us drug users when I already told you I am not. Care to respond to that?
Your mental. Seriously. No joke whatsoever. I genuinly believe you may have problems. This is not trolling. Your frequency of CAP use, of insult use, of use of lies, of repeating words in a manic fashion, of saying ''I WIN I WIN I WIN!''.
It's pretty scary.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:34 PM
My point still stands. The ''Never/Once Or Twice'' dwarves the ''regularly/all the time'' sections. Yet you take quotes out of context to scaremonger on here.
Also, you keep calling us drug users when I already told you I am not. Care to respond to that?
Your mental. Seriously. No joke whatsoever. I genuinly believe you may have problems. This is not trolling. Your frequency of CAP use, of insult use, of use of lies, of repeating words in a manic fashion, of saying ''I WIN I WIN I WIN!''.
It's pretty scary.
Learn
To
Read
Stats
...
Look above at frequency of use. Regular users show that they suffer from ill effects. Non regular users - who only smoked like once a year or twice a year don't.
LEARN TO READ STATS!!!
How do you expect to have a decent view on these matters when you can't read stats or even academic reports.
Seriously. No wonder you think there is nothing wrong with it. You only comprehend simple english.
That's why your evidence comes from the BBC Comedy Channel and Sky TV. WHat a joke.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:35 PM
you keep calling us drug users when I already told you I am not. Care to respond to that?
Your mental. Seriously. No joke whatsoever. I genuinly believe you may have problems. This is not trolling. Your frequency of CAP use, of insult use, of use of lies, of repeating words in a manic fashion, of saying ''I WIN I WIN I WIN!''.
It's pretty scary.
Thank You
YES YES YES I WIN YOU LOSE!!
Dude... Fact is, you don't understand why it's illegal because you can't read and understand real facts, real data - real study.
I don't blame you for that, I blame your background.
But, you are still at fault for not even attempting to make the effort to understand something that affects and ruins people's lives.
THat's a fault of your character and personality.
You dont know the difference between CBD, Cannabanoids, THC and Cannabidiol. You dont know the differences between Hemp and Cannabis Drug. You dont know ****. Your just a google wizard posting all the STUDIES he can find while ignoring the simple FACTS. Your a joke. A mental joke. A joke who calls us drug users and ignores any criticism applied to him.
Cannabis is safer legal. Not perfectly safe by a long shot, and not something you should smoke more than once or twice a week, but it DOES become safer.
Did it ever occur to you that people who smoke it EVERY DAY - those people who form the crux of your arguments - are hardcore stoners who will buy it anyway regardless of the law?
And that for the majority of us -
Never mind. I would rather just laugh as you slowly loose your mind under a sea of frustration.
:joker:
you keep calling us drug users when I already told you I am not. Care to respond to that?
Your mental. Seriously. No joke whatsoever. I genuinly believe you may have problems. This is not trolling. Your frequency of CAP use, of insult use, of use of lies, of repeating words in a manic fashion, of saying ''I WIN I WIN I WIN!''.
It's pretty scary.
Thank You
YES YES YES I WIN YOU LOSE!!
Dude... Fact is, you don't understand why it's illegal because you can't read and understand real facts, real data - real study.
I don't blame you for that, I blame your background.
But, you are still at fault for not even attempting to make the effort to understand something that affects and ruins people's lives.
THat's a fault of your character and personality.
Cars ruin peoples lives. Those ultra generalised arguments of yours are a joke.
And you dont know my backround, dont insult me you tosser. What a horrible man you are, and yet you hold yourself to such a high standard?
PEOPLE WILL SMOKE CANNABIS REGARDLESS OF THE LAW AND REGARDLESS OF ME SUPPORTING ITS LEGALIZATION OR NOT. MOST ILL EFFECTS OF CANNABIS COME FROM IT BEING ILLEGAL. THIS IS A FACT.
You dont know a thing. You proved that way back when. Google wizard.
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=145
How about that for a statistic table. Straight from the FDA. Not exactly a pro stoner society.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:43 PM
You just love going off on tangents when you can't answer a question.
:joker:
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:44 PM
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=145
How about that for a statistic table. Straight from the FDA. Not exactly a pro stoner society.
Why are you laughing?
279 people died...
Do you think it's funny people die?
This doesn't include the lives ruined by the drug as well.
You've got a skewed sense of responsibility.
Oh and thanks for providing more proof you can't read statistics.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:46 PM
Oh that doesn't include the people whose lives aren't ruined but the statistics I schooled you on does,
Love it! :)
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=145
How about that for a statistic table. Straight from the FDA. Not exactly a pro stoner society.
Why are you laughing?
279 people died...
Do you think it's funny people die?
What was that you said about tangets?
MassiveTruck Says :
You should really consider reading up on CBD, Cannabidiols, Canniboids and also THC too. Really know the difference man. Seriously.
Science Says :
Cannabidiol, also known as CBD, is a cannabinoid found in Cannabis.
setanta
30-09-2009, 05:48 PM
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=145
How about that for a statistic table. Straight from the FDA. Not exactly a pro stoner society.
Why are you laughing?
279 people died...
Do you think it's funny people die?
This doesn't include the lives ruined by the drug as well.
You've got a skewed sense of responsibility.
Oh and thanks for providing more proof you can't read statistics.
I'm just sitting back and enjoying the show here. I don't think we should humour him anymore because he literally has no clue of the reality of the situation here. I've literally never met a more obtuse and vindictive character.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:48 PM
Look man.
You enjoy this ignorance. You're a puppet to idiotic idealism.
Let people like me do the hard work. You can have your precious beliefs. Well done.
The whole sum of who you are is simply having an opinion. Well done.
But nobody else will tell you this. YOu can't read. You can't comprehend. You struggle at making connections in data.
This is why you're more affected by emotional ideals and real facts of people die are erm...
let me say - too hard to stomach for people so young. It's hard to see the world is a bad place isn't it.
Anyway, sorry for giving you cold hard truth about the world. But somebody has to.
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:50 PM
MassiveTruck Says :
You should really consider reading up on CBD, Cannabidiols, Canniboids and also THC too. Really know the difference man. Seriously.
Science Says :
Cannabidiol, also known as CBD, is a cannabinoid found in Cannabis.
And?
I never said anything wrong.
You're clutching at straws by twisting things because your view of having an opinions is far far important for you than people ruining their lives and dying.
You've proved that.
setanta
30-09-2009, 05:50 PM
MassiveTruck Says :
You should really consider reading up on CBD, Cannabidiols, Canniboids and also THC too. Really know the difference man. Seriously.
Science Says :
Cannabidiol, also known as CBD, is a cannabinoid found in Cannabis.
I know, that was a classic.:joker:
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:51 PM
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=145
How about that for a statistic table. Straight from the FDA. Not exactly a pro stoner society.
Why are you laughing?
279 people died...
Do you think it's funny people die?
This doesn't include the lives ruined by the drug as well.
You've got a skewed sense of responsibility.
Oh and thanks for providing more proof you can't read statistics.
I'm just sitting back and enjoying the show here. I don't think we should humour him anymore because he literally has no clue of the reality of the situation here. I've literally never met a more obtuse and vindictive character.
I think Probe Eight has some intelligence but you're just an idiot.
My final view on you.
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=145
How about that for a statistic table. Straight from the FDA. Not exactly a pro stoner society.
Why are you laughing?
279 people died...
Do you think it's funny people die?
This doesn't include the lives ruined by the drug as well.
You've got a skewed sense of responsibility.
Oh and thanks for providing more proof you can't read statistics.
I'm just sitting back and enjoying the show here. I don't think we should humour him anymore because he literally has no clue of the reality of the situation here. I've literally never met a more obtuse and vindictive character.
Good point. This is my last post. Let us together enjoy, without reply, his last loopy, nutty post. I expect it will include something about us ignoring his arguments, being drug dealers, and being losers. Or he will try and pretend to rise about that by bringing in a class argument or faux sympathy act. Either way, it's going to be hillarious. Either way, I laugh. You laugh. We all laugh. However I do want to raise a serious point about criminalizing KNIVES and NOW! They kill people! Think about that when you cut your bread you sadist!
On with the show!
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:52 PM
MassiveTruck Says :
You should really consider reading up on CBD, Cannabidiols, Canniboids and also THC too. Really know the difference man. Seriously.
Science Says :
Cannabidiol, also known as CBD, is a cannabinoid found in Cannabis.
I know, that was a classic.:joker:
That's because you make up things in order to remain right.
Do you enjoy people dying from Cannabis?
Do you enjoy people suffering in mental health hospitals from Cannabis?
Easy questions.
setanta
30-09-2009, 05:52 PM
"Hmm... You actually think people will grow enough Cannabis for themselves? That's illogical and not possible... That's why crime will rise 10 fold without it.
How many plants for how many spliffs? Do you see how it's impossible?"
Another gem from MassiveTruck :hello:
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:52 PM
http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=145
How about that for a statistic table. Straight from the FDA. Not exactly a pro stoner society.
Why are you laughing?
279 people died...
Do you think it's funny people die?
This doesn't include the lives ruined by the drug as well.
You've got a skewed sense of responsibility.
Oh and thanks for providing more proof you can't read statistics.
I'm just sitting back and enjoying the show here. I don't think we should humour him anymore because he literally has no clue of the reality of the situation here. I've literally never met a more obtuse and vindictive character.
Good point. This is my last post. Let us together enjoy, without reply, his last loopy, nutty post. I expect it will include something about us ignoring his arguments, being drug dealers, and being losers. Or he will try and pretend to rise about that by bringing in a class argument or faux sympathy act. Either way, it's going to be hillarious. Either way, I laugh. You laugh. We all laugh. However I do want to raise a serious point about criminalizing KNIVES and NOW! They kill people! Think about that when you cut your bread you sadist!
On with the show!
Isn't that because for every link you post the **** hits the fan for you?
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:53 PM
"Hmm... You actually think people will grow enough Cannabis for themselves? That's illogical and not possible... That's why crime will rise 10 fold without it.
How many plants for how many spliffs? Do you see how it's impossible?"
Another gem from MassiveTruck :hello:
What's wrong with that? :conf:
Aww bless. Fake attempts at mockery now.
The last hideout for the coward.
"Hmm... You actually think people will grow enough Cannabis for themselves? That's illogical and not possible... That's why crime will rise 10 fold without it.
How many plants for how many spliffs? Do you see how it's impossible?"
Another gem from MassiveTruck :hello:
That was a good one! In fact, lets celebrate his posts! It's too much fun to post in this thread. Let us post and completely ignore him!
After all, he owns a computer, like us. Computers launch missiles that kill people. Oh the morality trail! What an evil old b****** he is!
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:55 PM
"Hmm... You actually think people will grow enough Cannabis for themselves? That's illogical and not possible... That's why crime will rise 10 fold without it.
How many plants for how many spliffs? Do you see how it's impossible?"
Another gem from MassiveTruck :hello:
That was a good one! In fact, lets celebrate his posts! It's too much fun to post in this thread. Let us post and completely ignore him on any and all level!
After all, he owns a computer, like us. Computers launch missiles that kill people. Oh the morality trail! What an evil old b****** he is!
I've got to you.
Haven't I. :elephant::elephant:
MassiveTruck
30-09-2009, 05:58 PM
Here - I've just made things easier for you to counter argue.
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=148331#pid2615943
setanta
30-09-2009, 06:02 PM
Think I might post a thread on the problems of MassiveTruck.
Think I might post a thread on the problems of MassiveTruck.
Nice idea. There is enough quotes here from him calling us scumbags and drug dealers and enough manic ''HA HA HA!'s'' to make for great light relief in that other thread of his.
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