The Lisbon Treaty

[Iceman]

Just wondering are any Irish mebers on here going to vote?

Also for other members this would be good for you to take 10 minutes to read, seeing as how it will be forced upon you like it's been forced upon us Irish for the second time.

Basically smaller countries will get less of a say, example; Ireland wil lose 50% of our say in the EU)

here's a link, please read. :love:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon#Ireland

I got my Champion pass :D

[Princess]

I've been told to vote Yes,I have no clue really. ANYTHING to do with politics just go right over my head

[King Gizzard]

I will be voting


wait im not irish

[Iceman]

I've been told to vote Yes,I have no clue really. ANYTHING to do with politics just go right over my head

I really don't want to ask you to vote no, but im sure if you read the treaty you'd change your mind.

A leaflet came today saying that the EU were pushing for Euthanasia to be legalised in countries, if we vote Yes on the treaty we dont get a say.

More info on that @ www.euinfo.ie

that has all the major guidelines that havent been included in previous leaflets sent by the Government.

Also just to ramble on a bit more, this is probably the most important referendum of the past 30 years and probably one of the most important of our generation.

[Iceman]

I will be voting


wait im not irish

You ve already voted yes, but your government wouldnt want you knowing that now would they, seeing as how they voted on your behalf.

[Princess]

Maybe I just won't vote,urgh I don't know. I don't think people who have no clue or interest should even vote.

[Iceman]

Maybe I just won't vote,urgh I don't know. I don't think people who have no clue or interest should even vote.

Would you not consider even spoiling your vote? that way at least your vote still makes up for something even if your undecided on what.

[Princess]

Hmm maybe. I'll see what my family are doing. My brother knows feck loads about all this.

[Iceman]

Hmm maybe. I'll see what my family are doing. My brother knows feck loads about all this.

Good, I was the same until I actually read what this treaty stands for, it's crazy what they're trying to do....

[MrGaryy]

omg Laura vote, I'm so anti not voting, its like one of these thigns i have.

having said that I know nothing about this but if what Iceman is saying is true then 'no' seems about right to me.

[Princess]

Well I didn't vote the last time there was something on,I was too lazy to go,haha!

I'll ask my brother and see! My mum said shes going Yes but I think she has about much clue as me....

[Corkie]

Well before you do vote make sure you know what your voting for.

I don't live in Ireland but my Dad does and he'll be voting No.

[Ramsay]

i dont really understand it
no one explained it to me
all they say is VOTE YES or VOTE NO

[arista]

Yes Vote "No"
That Europe Deal has Screwed Ireland.
Utter Fact.

[arista]

Well before you do vote make sure you know what your voting for.

I don't live in Ireland but my Dad does and he'll be voting No.

Your Dad is most wise.

[setanta]

Sure Brian Cowen admitted to not even reading the fecking thing the first time round so how am I supposed to believe anything that this government says? I suppose the logical thing to do would be to vote Yes because we need as much help as we can get at the moment, but I wont do it for the simple reason that I question every decision they make now, including this whole NAMA rubbish that benefits the big boys and kicks the small lads in the balls. I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them and they don't deserve our backing at this stage.

[bansheewails]

I voted NO last time, because the stupid, over paid, under worked and idiotic government couldn't tell me what i was voting for. Nothing has changed so far, so it maybe another NO vote for me!

Nama should stand for, NO ASSHOLE MENTAL ACCOUNTANTS!

[Iceman]

i dont really understand it
no one explained it to me
all they say is VOTE YES or VOTE NO

If you have a look at the links I provided it has the main inclusions of the treaty there, but dont get drawn into the "Yes" leaflets that are sent through your door, they've been proven to be biased.

As for Mr Cowen and not reading the treaty the first time round, it just goes to show what type of a jackass is running our country.

Gordon Brown seems pretty good right now....

[Jessica.]

I would vote no if I could but I cant vote because im 17 ha

[Stu]

You bet your bottom dollar I will be voting no!

'Europe's nations should be guided towards the super-state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation.'

- Jean Monnet, 'Founding Father' of the EU,

NO MEANS NO!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4291770489472554607&hl=en#

[MassiveTruck]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_06fhaNrcQ

[Niamh.]

I will be repeating myself and voting NO!

[Iceman]

Polls are predicting a YES....

although 1 in 5 people are still undecided....


NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONONO

[Stu]

People are voting yes because Fianna Fail, the boggers party, are convincing old people and people suffering from the economy THEY played a part in messing up that it's the only way to reverse the economic downturn [and, conveniently save there party's worthless ass]

Such a shame. I wish people could think for themselves instead of relying on official party lines. Ironic that the yes brigade accused US of scaremongering last time.

I dont even give one iota about the main issues. I am looking at the BIGGER PICTURE here. A United States Of Europe. Centralization of power. Lisbon is not an end unto itself. First Lisbon, what next?

Also, remember, we are voting on behalf of the MILLIONS who did not even get the chance! Isin't the whole IDEA of the treaty to establish an apparently more democratized europe? Through what, facist force-ism?

What a crock of hypocritical ****!

[Iceman]

Exactly, look at the countries who "voted" yes. The UK have but yet nobody seems to know that....

[Stu]

The only other countries where it went to a public vote to my knowledge were France and the Netherlands. Both rejected it.

The very fact that EU members were not allowed to vote on something which directly affects them is an absoloute disgrace. Why do we continue to wank ourselevs off as being free peoples in a democracy? We are not! in all likelyhood, the bastards in the dail are going to get there way this time.

If people would look at the big issues and read the damn thing, instead of worrying about how many notes are in there wallets. You want to beat the recession? Change your damn ways. Most Irish people are far too arrogant. We bitch and moan about the economy but make virtually no changes to our lifestyle. Why listen to Fianna Fail now? Why let Nicholas Sarkozy and the others, the big wigs who want the treaty because it works to THERE globalised advantage, win?

People before profit!

[setanta]

I agree ProbeEight, but unfortunately I think because of the predicament the countries in at the moment, there will be many people who'll be inclined to vote Yes in an attempt to steady the ship, you know? In the same way they kept Fianna Fail in during last general election when times were still quite good and people were unwilling to take a gamble on a new government.

[Iceman]

If it's a YES then I think it's the biggest mistake this country will make and will seriously think of moving.

[Stu]

I agree ProbeEight, but unfortunately I think because of the predicament the countries in at the moment, there will be many people who'll be inclined to vote Yes in an attempt to steady the ship, you know? In the same way they kept Fianna Fail in during last general election when times were still quite good and people were unwilling to take a gamble on a new government.
Yep, that seems to be the general line, but people should look to there past mistakes, i.e. voting Fianna Fail back in.

The thing is your right, yes, it will steady the ship, but I am more concerned with where this ship is going. Thats what people tend not to think about.

[setanta]

I agree ProbeEight, but unfortunately I think because of the predicament the countries in at the moment, there will be many people who'll be inclined to vote Yes in an attempt to steady the ship, you know? In the same way they kept Fianna Fail in during last general election when times were still quite good and people were unwilling to take a gamble on a new government.
Yep, that seems to be the general line, but people should look to there past mistakes, i.e. voting Fianna Fail back in.

The thing is your right, yes, it will steady the ship, but I am more concerned with where this ship is going. Thats what people tend not to think about.



I agree with you and hopefully this whole NAMA thing will steer people in the right direction.

[Ramsay]

it appears its gonna be a yes
**** it anyway

[bansheewails]

Were sunked! Its going to be yes, cause people are afraid if they vote NO, they wont hae the money for that new BMW they wanted!

By Jesus Cowen et al, bettter get the short shift at the next election or I might move to spain!

[setanta]

Were sunked! Its going to be yes, cause people are afraid if they vote NO, they wont hae the money for that new BMW they wanted!

By Jesus Cowen et al, bettter get the short shift at the next election or I might move to spain!

Considering jumping ship myself at this stage.

[bansheewails]

At least spain has good weather to be miserable in! And fags are cheap!

[Iceman]

Nah if I leave im getting the **** out of Europe altogether....

[setanta]

Nah if I leave im getting the **** out of Europe altogether....

I think I'm with you there.

[Ramsay]

Austrailia here i come!
once i turn..like 21 that is

[bansheewails]

Where though? I would never move to America is too creepy, Australia is too far away from family!

[Iceman]

Im all for going to somewhere like China or Cambodia...

[Niamh.]

Spain for me!!

[Iceman]

Spain for me!!

I know people who run a pub in Spain so I could go there but I just want out of Europe altogether you know?

[Niamh.]

Spain for me!!

I know people who run a pub in Spain so I could go there but I just want out of Europe altogether you know?

I have a summer house in Spain, I love it there.The language is the only turn off, I'm crap at learning new languages!!!

[Iceman]

Spain for me!!

I know people who run a pub in Spain so I could go there but I just want out of Europe altogether you know?

I have a summer house in Spain, I love it there.The language is the only turn off, I'm cr*p at learning new languages!!!

Looks more and more likely that its going to be a YES vote....:bored: what an absolute ****ing shambles...

[Niamh.]

I hope not, everyone 've spoken to said they were voting no

[Iceman]

I hope not, everyone 've spoken to said they were voting no

same but, going by all news sources its looking like a YES...:sad:

[Niamh.]

where do they get their figures from? surveys? I just find it very insulting that our government didn't respect our original decision.They're supposed to do what we want not the other way around!

[Iceman]

where do they get their figures from? surveys? I just find it very insulting that our government didn't respect our original decision.They're supposed to do what we want not the other way around!

Our governments a shambles.

They didnt read the treaty the first time round, so do you really expect them to give us any respect????

[Niamh.]

we let the ****ers get away with **** though, steal a load of money from us?? Grand here's abig fat bonus!! Any other country they would have all been ****ed out of there!!

[Iceman]

As Arista would say:

Sign Of The Times..


We should have had more of a say after the whole Celtic Tiger debacle.....

[Niamh.]

yeah, Brian Cowen should be out of there anyway for a start

[Iceman]

yeah, Brian Cowen should be out of there anyway for a start

But then we have to get rid of everyone else that is destroying this country...

[Niamh.]

lol!!! We'll have no politicians left then!!! I think Michael O'Leary should be next Taoiseach lol!!

[Iceman]

I think Mary Lou Macdonald would be a great candidate...

[Niamh.]

I actually like Sinn feins attitude, they seem about the closest to actually wanting whats good for the people and not their fat arses!!

[Iceman]

Exactly, and Mary Lou seems to know what she's on about....

[Niamh.]

It'll be a very long time before Sinn Fein get anywhere though, they are making progress though

[Iceman]

It'll be a very long time before Sinn Fein get anywhere though, they are making progress though

Better progress than any of the others, I really think they're the way out of all this mess...

[Niamh.]

I agree with you 100% but alot of people are still wary of them and all the big parties are afraid it'll damage their reps by going into coallition with them

[Iceman]

I agree with you 100% but alot of people are still wary of them and all the big parties are afraid it'll damage their reps by going into coallition with them

Yeah but I think that the other parties will have to go into power with them, whoever takes a chance will be the ones that have more balls and see that this is a good thing.

[Niamh.]

Well, I hope your right, something drastic definately needs to happen cos it's not working right now

[Iceman]

I know

-thinks-









-thinks-








-thinks-














VOTE ICEMAN for Taoiseach

[Niamh.]

lol, you'll get my vote:thumbs:

[Iceman]

The state the place is in now, if I ran im fairly confident that i'd win...

[Niamh.]

right my bed is calling :sleep:

good look with the election lol :thumbs:

[Stu]

In fairness, Sinn Fein always go against the government no matter what. They were the political wing of the real IRA. Many of their members refuse to apologise for the Omagh bombings and attacks on Gardai.

They can **** right off.

No, the entire political party system can **** right off. People join a party, follow it, and then they no longer have to think for themselves. It's insane.

[Arneldo]

I'm voting, and I'm voting no. For one reason. The government have failed, once again, to inform us of what this is. If they wanted my vote, and they wanted me to vote yes, then they should have made the friggin effort.

[bansheewails]

I'm voting, and I'm voting no. For one reason. The government have failed, once again, to inform us of what this is. If they wanted my vote, and they wanted me to vote yes, then they should have made the friggin effort.

Totally agree with you Arneldo, they didn't even try to eplain whats going on. ny info I have i looked it up for my self, and then it didn't convince me to vote yes. Ireland needs a proper revolution, like the french, over throw the government and banish the lot of the schemeing, tax dodging =, lying, thieving to spike Island!

[Niamh.]

I'm voting, and I'm voting no. For one reason. The government have failed, once again, to inform us of what this is. If they wanted my vote, and they wanted me to vote yes, then they should have made the friggin effort.

Totally agree with you Arneldo, they didn't even try to eplain whats going on. ny info I have i looked it up for my self, and then it didn't convince me to vote yes. Ireland needs a proper revolution, like the french, over throw the government and banish the lot of the schemeing, tax dodging =, lying, thieving to spike Island!

Here, Here!!! :hello:

[bansheewails]

Via la revolution! or the eqvilent in Irish!

[Stu]

Has anybody else noticed all the yes leaflets and posters basically just boil down to ''Lets be friends with Europe, everyone!'' and state no solid reasons?

Is sucking Europe's dick suddenly an end unto itself?

Virtually every SINGLE poster for a yes vote I have seen just says ''Lets work with Europe''.

[arista]

Was just Live On Jeff Randall
SkyNews .


Bad Deal for Ireland
pointed out.
And how the Euro wrecked Ireland.

[Niamh.]

I just voted NO :thumbs:

[arista]

I just voted NO :thumbs:

Very Wise of you.

[Ramsay]

I just voted NO :thumbs:

hooray!:dance:

[Niamh.]

I have a bad feeling it's going to be Yes though:bawling:

[Ramsay]

Yeah same:sad:

[arista]

I just voted NO :thumbs:

Very Wise of you.

[Iceman]

Was just Live On Jeff Randall
SkyNews .


Bad Deal for Ireland
pointed out.
And how the Euro wrecked Ireland.


The Euro didn't wreck Ireland, you'll see that when you decide to join eventually, whenever you get off your high horses.

[Iceman]

VOTED NO BTW!!!!

[Stu]

Arista, the Euro did not ruin Ireland. You must be a moron to think it did. Read up on things.

Voted NO!

[Arneldo]

I voted for Rodrigo the win The Lisbon Treaty 2009.

[Iceman]

I voted for Rodrigo the win The Lisbon Treaty 2009.

:laugh2:

[Stu]

Heard a few reports of black 09 D reg cars pulling up outside polling stations with government officials asking people what they are voting and trying to get them to vote yes.

Scummers!

[Iceman]

* Opinion polls suggest treaty to pass; bond markets nervous

* Turnout expected to pick up later; voting till 2100 GMT

* "No" vote could trigger crises in EU and Ireland

* Irish "Yes" would turn spotlight on Poland, Czech Republic

* Result due on Saturday

(Recasts with more comment, detail)

By Andras Gergely and Darren Ennis

DUBLIN, Oct 2 (Reuters) - The European Union's hopes of greater global clout hinged on Friday on Ireland, where voters decided on the Lisbon Treaty for a second time in a referendum which risks tipping the bloc into crisis if they reject it again.

Brussels is counting on Ireland's three million voters to ratify the charter after they dismissed it last year, stalling the introduction of a long-term president and a stronger foreign policy chief for the EU's near half a billion citizens.

Voting was slow across the country, with turnout at around 20-25 percent by mid afternoon, but officials expect it to pick up when people leave work for the weekend.

"At the moment it is looking good for the 'Yes' vote, but we need people to come out this evening," European Affairs Minister Dick Roche told Reuters.

Opinion polls suggest this time around Ireland will give Lisbon the thumbs up when the results are declared on Saturday.

Dublin has secured concessions from Brussels, and many Irish fear that a second rejection would isolate the country as it battles one of the worst recessions in the western world.

But anger with the government, evidenced in street protests, anti-Lisbon posters and sometimes obscene graffiti decrying the demise of the "Celtic Tiger" economy, have made investors wary of betting on an easy "Yes".

Irish 10-year debt yields have widened more than 20 basis points over their German equivalent, the euro zone benchmark, since Wednesday but may bounce back if the treaty is ratified.

Rejection of the treaty could have serious consequences on the financial markets, said analysts.

"It's just a risk that's probably not worth taking," said Alan McQuaid, chief economist at Dublin-based brokerage Bloxham. "If there were to be a 'No' vote bond yields would just spiral out dramatically on Monday."

Prime Minister Brian Cowen, who could lose his job if he presides over a second defeat, has warned that rejection could provoke an exodus of foreign investment and has urged voters to set aside their feelings about him when they decide.

But his pleas have angered many people struggling with unemployment, higher taxes and the possibility of lower social welfare payments in the next austerity budget.

"I am not going to change my mind from the last time. A 'No' means 'No'," said Ron Russell, 42, as he walked down O'Connell Street, Dublin city's main thoroughfare.

"A lot of my colleagues would share the same opinion, most definitely," he said, as taxi drivers protesting against poor working conditions blocked one lane of traffic with cabs festooned with "No to Lisbon" stickers.

THROUGH GRITTED TEETH

Turnout was particularly low in working class areas, where voters are traditionally hostile to Europe, but even in the leafy middle class Dublin suburb of Booterstown many voters were ticking the "Yes" box with gritted teeth.

"I begrudgingly voted 'Yes' because I felt I had to, to a certain degree," said David Early, a 28-year-old photographer.

The Lisbon Treaty, designed to speed up decision-making in the EU, give it a long-term president and a stronger foreign policy chief, needs to be ratified by all 27 member states in order to take effect.

A second rejection would severely delay EU integration and further enlargement as both France and Germany have said expansion cannot take place if the charter is not in force.

It could also weaken the euro currency amid uncertainty over the bloc's future direction, opening the possibility of a two-tier Europe as some countries push ahead with closer cooperation leaving others behind.

An Irish "Yes" would put pressure on eurosceptic presidents in Poland and the Czech Republic to sign it into law.

President Lech Kaczynski of Poland said he was willing to ratify the charter if Ireland votes "Yes" but Czech President Vaclav Klaus is likely to delay his approval after 17 senators filed a constitutional complaint against the treaty.

But if the Czech Constitutional Court rejects the latest complaint before then he may be forced to adopt, marking the final scene in a tortuous ratification drama. (Additional reporting by Carmel Crimmins in Dublin and Gareth Jones in Warsaw; editing by Janet Lawrence)

[Stu]

COME ON YOU CRAZY CZECHS!

Prime Minister Brian Cowen
Viva La Journalism!

[Iceman]

its going to be a YES vote and im gonna get the **** out of dodge...

cant believe we are gonna get this we've already voted ****ing NO NO NO NO NO

NOMEANS NO **** COWEN AND HIS NUMPTY **** ****ING PARTY

[Stu]

http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/~peoplesr/forums/showthread.php?t=167041

Read that. This is an absoloute disgrace.

Still, Lisbon is not sealed with our yes vote. Thank god for that. Still, we let ourselves down today. That news story you reported where the fella felt forced into voting yes ... what a joke of democracy.

[Captain.Remy]

When do we get the results ?

[Iceman]

Later on tonight will be provisionals, will know by early tomorrow morning...(although by the looks of it it's already a low turnout with a YES vote)

[Captain.Remy]

Thanks buddy, I'm looking forward to it. In both cases, it will be an interesting result to talk about.

[Iceman]

Thanks buddy, I'm looking forward to it. In both cases, it will be an interesting result to talk about.

yeah but its sstill a joke that weve had to vote again just for them to be happy....

3rd time lucky anyone????

[Stu]

Working class areas, typically no voters, have had the worst turnouts. This is going to be a disaster. Let the college elite stick to there political party that have ruined this country. Let them crack open a bubbly at there little Fianna Fail celebrations. Let them forget all the people there party has ****ed over. Let them forget following blindly there party has robbed them of all political free will. Something there bureaucratic Europe will cherish with open arms.

Now down on your knees and open wide for Sarkozy.

[Stu]

Thanks buddy, I'm looking forward to it. In both cases, it will be an interesting result to talk about.

yeah but its sstill a joke that weve had to vote again just for them to be happy....

3rd time lucky anyone????
Interesting point. We are pretty much even now. I wonder what Cowen would say to a third vote.

:joker:

[Iceman]

Cowen can go and **** himself tha fat greedy bastard

[Stu]

Come to think of it, how many Irish people are actualy on this forum? A little Irish clique could be fun. The Celtic Invasion or something equally pretentious.

[Iceman]

Think theres about 20 give or take...

[Iceman]

****ing YES vote, what a poxy cunting ****ed up country I live in.

[Princess]

I ended up not voting,it was between missing my DART and voting,and then coming home it was have a drink with my friends or not vote. So yeah didn't vote :P

[Stu]

All hail Tony Blair - KING OF EUROPE!

And hey, Ireland were the LUCKY ONES! What about the 50 million who had absolutely no say on something that would DIRECTLY affect there lives?

Most Yes voters and college society Fianna Fail bumlickers also seem to be ignoring the fact that this treaty has not been fully ratified yet. The Polish president will likely sign it, but the Czechs appear very much against it.

[Iceman]

President Tony Blair and I hope all the non voters dont complain when he ****s up all of our countries....

[Stu]

Aye, I can respect a yes voter more than a non voter. Still, a 50+ % turnout is pretty amazing by Irish standards. Over half of ... well ... people got up and voted. Good stuff.

[Iceman]

Its still bullshit in my opinion and makes the country look a farce. We voted No already why didn't they listen?

[Jessica.]

http://www.referendum.ie/

[Ramsay]

**** sake

[Iceman]

**** sake

Couldnt say anything better myself...

[setanta]

Read a great article there recently that suggests there's room for a new party in Irish politics after this fiasco.

[Iceman]

Read a great article there recently that suggests there's room for a new party in Irish politics after this fiasco.

Needs to be something has to be done, this mockery of a country we live in....

[setanta]

It's just a bit of a p**s take really when we'd already voted and kicked it out. Isn't it in the constitution that once a bill or treaty hasn't been passed by a nation it's thrown out? I mean, they haven't made any amendments to it right? Still the same gobbledigook that they wanted us to accept last time.

[Iceman]

Im just pissed off big time at the whole ****ing thing...

[Stu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sED3iApAvE

I DARE Yes voters to watch this, and respond to it. I feel dirty. I feel cheated. We really are a nation of gullible, swing to one side, swing to the other ****ing halfwits.

[setanta]

Thinking with our pockets, that's all it is.

[Iceman]

Shít is hitting the fan in the UK now about this.....Cameron could lose momentum going into General Elections next year if he doesn't push for a referendum.....

[Jessica.]

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=148519

[Iceman]

Yeah thats about a stupid little quiz...not for serious debates..

[Jessica.]

Yeah thats about a stupid little quiz...not for serious debates..

A bit of advertising cant do any harm can it?

[Iceman]

Yeah thats about a stupid little quiz...not for serious debates..

A bit of advertising cant do any harm can it?

Called spamming

[Stu]

Yeah thats about a stupid little quiz...not for serious debates..

A bit of advertising cant do any harm can it?
It's the fact that people generally hate people who advertise on a forum, because it's just a forum, not real life, and the over willingness of shouting ''LOOK AT MEEE, LOOK AT MY THREAD!'' gets a bit annoying.

Besides, quiz things on the internet are pointless. It's like having to write your answers down in a ****ing encyclopedia. Anybody who is sad enough to look the answers up can win, rendering the whole process tedious.

[setanta]

I'm reading more stuff on the Lisbon fiasco. Not good for the heart or the soul.... ahhhhh.

[Iceman]

Im sick f it, let the UK deal with it now.....

[Niamh.]

VVRAMlC_7hY