Should we leave Afghanistan?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Is it about time to get out of Afghanistan. Is the reason that Al-Qaeda (who ever they are) will use it to train terrorists a crap one and cant they just go elsewhere. Are we just there to stick in with the USA?

[NettoSuperstar!]

No, if we leave now the Taliban will return and the people of Afghanistan will suffer and the terrorists will re group and pose a greater threat

[Crimson Dynamo]

No, if we leave now the Taliban will return and the people of Afghanistan will suffer and the terrorists will re group and pose a greater threat

terrorists have plenty of places in Africa and Pakistan. The Taliban were there before we came.

"pose a greater threat" - how?

[WOMBAI]

Is it about time to get out of Afghanistan. Is the reason that Al-Qaeda (who ever they are) will use it to train terrorists a crap one and cant they just go elsewhere. Are we just there to stick in with the USA?

One thing we do agree on:hugesmile:

[arista]

Yes get out of that Nation
we are not United with other Nato countrys
One Eyed Scottish Brown
Cut there budget - in effect, Murdering loads of Troops.

[WOMBAI]

No, if we leave now the Taliban will return and the people of Afghanistan will suffer and the terrorists will re group and pose a greater threat

Sorry - but I care more about our young men and women! Too many have died already. Let them sort out their own problems!

[Shaun]

terrorists have plenty of places in Africa and Pakistan. The Taliban were there before we came.

"pose a greater threat" - how?

yeah, they were the reason we invaded.

and "pose a greater threat" - heard of 9/11? :)

[arista]

yeah, they were the reason we invaded.

and "pose a greater threat" - heard of 9/11? :)


Yes 9/11 (and that was back in 2001)
but we are Stuck out there not getting anywhere.


Just on the News
yet anorther UK Troop has been Killed.

[arista]

Sorry - but I care more about our young men and women! Too many have died already. Let them sort out their own problems!



Yes you can not Import Democracy under the Gun.
They want there own way of living.


It is a Never Ending Illegal Invasion.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1225090/Five-British-soldiers-killed-Afghanistan-single-attack-Taliban.html

[Crimson Dynamo]

yeah, they were the reason we invaded.

and "pose a greater threat" - heard of 9/11? :)

9/11 terrorists trained in the USA?

[arista]

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Nov/Week1/15440204.jpg

[King Gizzard]

No we shouldn't, if we did, it would be like all those soldiers died for nothing.

[Rob]

yes and no, yes for our soliders lives and no because all hell would break loose.

[InOne]

Dunno really, Afghanistan is a real tricky one. Won't be sorted out in our lifetimes.

[Patrick]

Couldnt give two ****s what happens there tbh, Care more about whats happening in Britan than some other ****ing country.

[InOne]

Couldnt give two ****s what happens there tbh, Care more about whats happening in Britan than some other ****ing country.

True man, Britain is in a pretty sorry state itself!

[Scarlett.]

Couldnt give two ****s what happens there tbh, Care more about whats happening in Britan than some other ****ing country.
You do know there are BRITISH troops fighting over there?

No, we should not pull out, if we did that, then we have just gone over to a country and totally destroyed it, then ran away, we have responsibilities over there

[Patrick]

You do know there are BRITISH troops fighting over there?

No, we should not pull out, if we did that, then we have just gone over to a country and totally destroyed it, then ran away, we have responsibilities over there

Suppose,

I just mean Im abit tired of seeing all this stuff about whats going on over in that country.
I understand their are British Troops dieing over there but they have to point it out that 1 Person has died when it has became a Regular Thing and shouldnt be made that big a deal.

But I get what your saying about Leaving Responsiablities and Running off..

[Tom]

Its not as simple as that and we're damned if we do, damned if we don't.

[InOne]

It's just a shame we got involved.

[Scarlett.]

That's true Tom, but at least if we stay, we wont get a reputation for abandoning countries

[Tom]

Suppose,

I just mean Im abit tired of seeing all this stuff about whats going on over in that country.
I understand their are British Troops dieing over there but they have to point it out that 1 Person has died when it has became a Regular Thing and shouldnt be made that big a deal.

But I get what your saying about Leaving Responsiablities and Running off..

The death toll isn't actually that high, so no it isn't as frequent as we think, and I can't believe you don't give two sh*ts and don't think its a big deal about them when they are out there fighting for YOU to be safe.

[GypsyGoth]

I don't think our soliders should be dying over there, they should be allowed come home.

[InOne]

Yes we might be 'responsible' but we need to grow a spine sometime and accept we can't sort it. You don't really see many countries caring for us do you?

[WOMBAI]

I'm sick of our men and women dying to solve other countries' problems. They certainly wouldn't do it for us.

[InOne]

Seem we have to bend over backwards for everyone these days. 'The sun never sets on the British Empire' wtf happened to that?

[arista]

It's America's Mess
out there.

[NettoSuperstar!]

terrorists have plenty of places in Africa and Pakistan. The Taliban were there before we came.

"pose a greater threat" - how?

The most damaging attacks have come from terrorist groups trained and following orders from Al Quaeda in that region supported by the Taliban, If you think leaving the region wont increase the threat of Islamist terrorists you must be crazy. And when I say Islamist terrorists I mean people who use the religion of Islam for their own gains and go against the majority of Muslim people.

[WOMBAI]

The threat is and will always be there. We need to get our troops out and deal with it on our own soil. Why should our troops die over there trying to sort out their problems?

[NettoSuperstar!]

The threat is and will always be there. We need to get our troops out and deal with it on our own soil. Why should our troops die over there trying to sort out their problems?

Yeh but the Taliban would take over where they left off and in years to come the problem would be much worse, they should have sorted Afghanistan out back in the 80s then 9/11 might have been prevented

[WOMBAI]

Stick the combats on the politicians - and let them go over there and sacrifice their lives then. Don't care about them. They are too quick to sacrifice the lives of those they don't know - you don't see their sons and daughters over there fighting. They don't give a damn about the troops - we have lost far too many already. Think the whole thing is a disgrace.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Stick the combats on the politicians - and let them go over there and sacrifice their lives then. Don't care about them. They are too quick to sacrifice the lives of those they don't know - you don't see their sons and daughters over there fighting. They don't give a damn about the troops - we have lost far too many already. Think the whole thing is a disgrace.

They sign up to defend our country for the benefit of the rest us, if they dont want the risk, dont join up! (My brother fought in the second gulf war btw and is now in prison after having a mental breakdown so dont give me I dont know blah blah blah)

[WOMBAI]

They sign up to defend our country for the benefit of the rest us, if they dont want the risk, dont join up! (My brother fought in the second gulf war btw and is now in prison after having a mental breakdown so dont give me I dont know blah blah blah)

Not saying you don't know - but I have had a son over there - who has since left the forces - so relieved he is out of it now - but still feel for the parents whose sons and daughters are still over there.

I strongly feel that these countries cause their own problems - and it always down to us to solve them for them - at the expense of our young men and womens' lives. Will never agree with it.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Not saying you don't know - but I have had a son over there - who has since left the forces - so relieved he is out of it now - but still feel for the parents whose sons and daughters are still over there.

I strongly feel that these countries cause their own problems - and it always down to us to solve them for them - at the expense of our young men and womens' lives. Will never agree with it.

Well its not just about sorting that country out, its about sorting the Taliban/Al quaeda out because they pose a very real threat, I feel for you as a mother, but I think its more important our soldiers dont feel like theyre comrades are dying for no good reason and feel they are doing a job that benefits us all (cos they are).:blush:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Well its not just about sorting that country out, its about sorting the Taliban/Al quaeda out because they pose a very real threat, I feel for you as a mother, but I think its more important our soldiers dont feel like theyre comrades are dying for no good reason and feel they are doing a job that benefits us all (cos they are).:blush:

can you tell me how many people in the uk have been killed by Al Quaeda?

civillians

[NettoSuperstar!]

can you tell me how many people in the uk have been killed by Al Quaeda?

civillians

There would be a greater risk if we hadnt gone in there, they werent just targeting the US

[arista]

There would be a greater risk if we hadnt gone in there, they werent just targeting the US


What utter Bollocks.

[WOMBAI]

We would protect our country better by using more resources for tracking down the people that pose a threat in this country - keeping a better eye on them - stricter immigration controls for people that pose a potential threat - instead of sending our troops to these contries where they become such obvious targets.

The amount of resourses that go into that - could make vast improvements on the monitoring of such people in our own country - along with stricter rules for prosecution.
Those convicted of involvemet in any terrorist act - should be thrown out of the country permanently - once they have served their time in jail - and NEVER allowed back in. And this should be monitored rigourously.

[NettoSuperstar!]

What utter Bollocks.

No Arista...UTTER FACT:hugesmile:

[NettoSuperstar!]

Im for tackling things at the root. I dont think just military force is the way to acheive our aims either there needs to be some dialogue and political negotiation too

[pinkmichk]

i dont think we should have gone out there in the first place so obviously think our troops need pulling out but it needs to be when the time is right
i've got a friend who is going through the process to get in the army in one respect it scares me so much that he is willingly putting himself in that situation but i also have the upmost respect for him cos he is doing it to help create a safe future for every single one of us

[arista]

Im for tackling things at the root. I dont think just military force is the way to acheive our aims either there needs to be some dialogue and political negotiation too


Now that is better.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Now that is better.

key word- "just"

[Ninastar]

No, if we leave now the Taliban will return and the people of Afghanistan will suffer and the terrorists will re group and pose a greater threat

This. It scares me that this could happen and it might be worse than last time.

[WOMBAI]

I care more about our own troops - and we can deal with the terrorists on our own soil.

[arista]

key word- "just"


No take that word out.

[andyman]

We need to stay and see the job through, that area of the world will take time to heal and could take upto 100 years.

[Patrick]

Yes we might be 'responsible' but we need to grow a spine sometime and accept we can't sort it. You don't really see many countries caring for us do you?

this

[Beastie]

I think the human race will end up killing each other in the next 200 years anyways!

[WOMBAI]

I think the human race will end up killing each other in the next 200 years anyways!

Quite possibly! Some factions of society seem pretty intent on single-handedly destroying the human race.

[bronaaaa]

Yep. Fighting for peace is ******ing for virginity..imo anyway

[arista]

"Army wants to retreat in Afghanistan"


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/Afghanistan/article6907939.ece

[andyman]

They will stay and see the job through.. For the future of FREEEEEDOM!

[arista]

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Nov/Week1/15443028.jpg
Fact.

[Tom]

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Nov/Week1/15443028.jpg
Fact.

PMSL @ Patrick Cockburn's surname. How unfortunate!!

[AfroMullet]

Leave now?

We shouldnt have gone in the first place.

[arista]

They will stay and see the job through.. For the future of FREEEEEDOM!


But the Person in Charge of that Nation is Corrupt.
It will never work.


Sadly today on Remembrance Day
yet another UK Troop has been Killed.


The Only way it to get out
and let it go its own way,
if there are any attacks on UK and USA from there
then we can return.


Also most of
9/11 Killers were from Saudi Arabia.


You andyman have much to learn.

[Prole]

We can't "win" in Afghsnistan. We've had are arses whooped there before, and we're not the only ones. What makes anyone think it will be different this time? "Those who cannot learn from the past are condemned to repeat it".

[andyman]

But the Person in Charge of that Nation is Corrupt.
It will never work.


Sadly today on Remembrance Day
yet another UK Troop has been Killed.


The Only way it to get out
and let it go its own way,
if there are any attacks on UK and USA from there
then we can return.


Also most of
9/11 Killers were from Saudi Arabia.


You andyman have much to learn... What would pulling out all the troops achieve in this time?

[arista]

Its better to save our Troops lives
that is the bottom line.

[Prole]

Our troops join the army knowing they will probably be deployed to a war zone. We've been in loads of actions since WW2 - Malaysia, Borneo, Northern Ireland, Palestine, the Falkland Islands... Our troops know what they're going into and they are some of the best trained soldiers in the world, despite their equipment being second rate (thanks Gordon Brown). The difference between Afghanistan and other military actions is, we have no chance of winning this. It is a futile war.

[WOMBAI]

Our troops join the army knowing they will probably be deployed to a war zone. We've been in loads of actions since WW2 - Malaysia, Borneo, Northern Ireland, Palestine, the Falkland Islands... Our troops know what they're going into and they are some of the best trained soldiers in the world, despite their equipment being second rate (thanks Gordon Brown). The difference between Afghanistan and other military actions is, we have no chance of winning this. It is a futile war.

Knowing and understanding are not quite the same thing! Bearing in mind a lot of young soldiers join up at the tender age of 18 - they don't fully understand the implications of what they are doing - even if they think they do at the time. It is too young. The age limit should be raised.

If people didn't join voluntarily - and there was a severe shortage - the government would soon start conscripting - and anyone could be affected - so a debt of gratitude is owed to our troops in more ways than one.

Afghanistan is a pointless war in lots of ways - not least because the majority of Afghan people seem to resent our troops being there - and lack any appreciation for their sacrifice. We are wasting our time - and more importantly - our brave young men and women!

[Prole]

Knowing and understanding are not quite the same thing! etc. etc. etc...


I agree with a lot of your points, but I really strongly disagree that young people join without knowing the full implications. There's a very strong military background in my family (including a recruiting sergeant!). Every applicant is vetted, given the all facts and are in no doubt what it means to be a British soldier. They only take intelligent young people in the army, and I'm sure none of them are at all hazy about what could happen.

Also, if the age for joining the army is too young because they do not know their own mind, then the age for marriage, drinking alcohol and voting should also perhaps be raised. At eighteen you're either an adult or you're a child. The law has decided you are an adult.

[WOMBAI]

I agree with a lot of your points, but I really strongly disagree that young people join without knowing the full implications. There's a very strong military background in my family (including a recruiting sergeant!). Every applicant is vetted, given the all facts and are in no doubt what it means to be a British soldier. They only take intelligent young people in the army, and I'm sure none of them are at all hazy about what could happen.

Also, if the age for joining the army is too young because they do not know their own mind, then the age for marriage, drinking alcohol and voting should also perhaps be raised. At eighteen you're either an adult or you're a child. The law has decided you are an adult.

In theory - practice is something else! You don't risk your life marrying, voting or drinking - as a rule! Not the same!

[Prole]

In theory - practice is something else! You don't risk your life marrying, voting or drinking - as a rule! Not the same!

Are you saying then, than eighteen year olds are still children? That they are not intelligent enough to choose a career? To choose a university course? There has to come a point where people start to take responsibility for their own lives, and the law had decided that age is 18. Actually, you can join the army younger if you have your parents' permission, and a lot of parents' give their permission, presumably because they think their child has made an intelligent and informed decision about their future.

Anyway... just my ooinion. Interesting to hear your own take on it.

[WOMBAI]

Are you saying then, than eighteen year olds are still children? That they are not intelligent enough to choose a career? To choose a university course? There has to come a point where people start to take responsibility for their own lives, and the law had decided that age is 18. Actually, you can join the army younger if you have your parents' permission, and a lot of parents' give their permission, presumably because they think their child has made an intelligent and informed decision about their future.

Anyway... just my ooinion. Interesting to hear your own take on it.

Most people past the age of say 25 - look back at things they did and said - and decisions they made at around 18 - and cringe! People are different - same more mature than others - but as a general rule - most 18 year olds will change their views on a lot of things when they are older - and have some regrets.

Thing is with a decision like joining the army - people might not get the chance to have any regrets. That is the reality of it!

[andyman]

Don't need troops to win a war, CIA operations have been the tactics of the past.

We can pull the troops out but it will become a living hell for the normal people that will be swept under by the Taliban.. A playground of terror.

[arista]

With the Troops Invading now
it is Going Wrong.

We have stayed to long and Failed.

Get Out now.

[arista]

Our troops join the army knowing they will probably be deployed to a war zone. We've been in loads of actions since WW2 - Malaysia, Borneo, Northern Ireland, Palestine, the Falkland Islands... Our troops know what they're going into and they are some of the best trained soldiers in the world, despite their equipment being second rate (thanks Gordon Brown). The difference between Afghanistan and other military actions is, we have no chance of winning this. It is a futile war.




Yes we can never Win
Time to Leave.

[andyman]

"Time to leave"

Think about it, it would do more harm than any good for the area.

[andyman]

Winning this war will take more than troops, right now is not the right time to pull out.

[arista]

"Time to leave"

Think about it, it would do more harm than any good for the area.


We do not know that for sure
but in general our Troops are Invading
that must stop.


http://greenmpforvauxhall.blogspot.com/2009/08/ten-reasons-to-get-troops-out-of.html

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cUIaSyvQ8w8/SopkGrT9hxI/AAAAAAAAARg/CjmZKc1s30g/s320/10_reasons_afghan_pic.jpg

[andyman]

Remove the troops and let the Taliban run wild with the helf from Iran, which also fund other groups in the middle east.

We must focus on the big picture, pulling out now would put the whole middle eastern area in more danger..

[arista]

"We"

Bollocks
we in England are not part of America or even a former Crazy Warmonger GW.Bush Vision

We want our Troops home and Alive.


Andyman - the Neo Conservative

[andyman]

Too late to pull out, we need to fix the problem so the normal people can have a future without the Taliban..

If we just drop and run that will give the green light for the Taliban and other groups to run wild in their playground of terror..

Drug production will rise to new record levels which end up on our streets funding more terror groups!

The vast land would become one huge criminal paradise..

One other option is to fund another group to fight the Taliban, but that can backfire.. We supported the Taliban to fight the Soviets many years ago..

The real problem is Iran, pumping weapons into Afghanistan (east of Iran) and pumping weapons into Iraq. (west of Iran)

Plus their indirect attacks against Israel.. (funding of two terror groups)

We pull out would only fall into the Taliban hands with the backing of Iran..

[arista]

Wrong we do not Drop and Run
but start getting troops out for good now.


Iran is not part of this,
that is your guess work,
Andyman - The Neo Conservative.

[WOMBAI]

That is all very good in theory - but the reality is our men and women are dying. Why should they. Much as I may sympathise with the ordinary people of Afghanistan - I don't want to save their lives with our sons and daughters' lives. To me - our troops are more important. These countries will probably always have problems - always have had - time for them to sort it out.

[arista]

That is all very good in theory - but the reality is our men and women are dying. Why should they. Much as I may sympathise with the ordinary people of Afghanistan - I don't want to save their lives with our sons and daughters' lives. To me - our troops are more important. These countries will probably always have problems - always have had - time for them to sort it out.


Very True
we do not want Theory
from Neo Conservative -Andyman.

[andyman]

They joined the army, people die, troops die.. It happens all the time.

Again people fail to see the big picture, well more troops are going over there.

[eye sea]

We're wasting our time there. Young Brit lads are going there to be shot or blown up. Most of them not even seeing any 'action'.

Plus, it costs billions per year to fund this war. And what's it all for? Not sure anybody knows. And what's it got to do with us?

How about sorting our own problems out for a start.

[InOne]

We're wasting our time there. Young Brit lads are going there to be shot or blown up. Most of them not even seeing any 'action'.

Plus, it costs billions per year to fund this war. And what's it all for? Not sure anybody knows. And what's it got to do with us?

How about sorting our own problems out for a start.

Yes, we have many many problems here, dead troops seem to be filling up the news these days.

[WOMBAI]

They joined the army, people die, troops die.. It happens all the time.

Again people fail to see the big picture, well more troops are going over there.

Alright for people to say who are not actually in the position of being asked to risk their lives. I used to think like that. When you have a loved one out there - you see it from a totally different perspective.

Add to that - these nations do very little to help themselves - all they ever seem to do - is fight - each other, other religions, the West - everybody!

It may be a very controversial thing to say - but I do - and have always believed that religion causes more death and destruction than anything else. They create these problems - why should others get involved. Things will never change.

[Prole]

Alright for people to say who are not actually in the position of being asked to risk their lives. I used to think like that. When you have a loved one out there - you see it from a totally different perspective.

Add to that - these nations do very little to help themselves - all they ever seem to do - is fight - each other, other religions, the West - everybody!

It may be a very controversial thing to say - but I do - and have always believed that religion causes more death and destruction than anything else. They create these problems - why should others get involved. Things will never change.


I agree with every word of that.

I support our troops 100%, but I'm totally against the war.

[arista]

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Nov/Week2/15451181.jpg

We have no Faith in this Illegal Corrupt Invasion.

[arista]

Live on Ch4 News now
Jon Snow is having a Debate with the Public
on why we should move out of that nation.


One of the Bset speakers
said we are making it worse by being there.

[andyman]

When should we pull out Arista?

[arista]

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Nov/Week2/15453789.jpg


Over 70% of us want to Withdraw.

[andyman]

70% from what source?

We will pull out when the time is right..

You have have much to learn Arista.. Not nice is it.

Fair to say that the 70% don't have a clue with pulling our troops out would result in..

[andyman]

Arista you don't have a clue, you have some twisted fk'd up idea in your head and take it as gospel..

[arista]

Arista you don't have a clue, you have some twisted fk'd up idea in your head and take it as gospel..


You are the Only one on this thread
with the Dumb Vision of staying out there
you are a Neo Conservative.
You have so much more to learn.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/war-in-afghanistan-not-in-our-name-1820949.html

[andyman]

Ok Arista, again you spit out the same driblbe to gloss over your lack of knowlege on this matter..

I am also shocked that you fail to grasp the reasons why we are still there and pulling out would do more harm tham good..

Silly Arista..

[arista]

Ok Arista, again you spit out the same driblbe to gloss over your lack of knowlege on this matter..

I am also shocked that you fail to grasp the reasons why we are still there and pulling out would do more harm tham good..

Silly Arista..


Staying in is doing more Harm
than withdrawing.

[WOMBAI]

We should pull our troops out NOW before any more loss of our troops lives!

[WOMBAI]

Ok Arista, again you spit out the same driblbe to gloss over your lack of knowlege on this matter..

I am also shocked that you fail to grasp the reasons why we are still there and pulling out would do more harm tham good..

Silly Arista..

Your sig - from funniest film ever - :joker:

That said - do not agree with your views. How do you know so much about it then!

[arista]

Even One Eyed Scottish Brown
our Un Elected PM is now making fast plans to Pull out.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/16/gordon-brown-afghanistan-pullout-date


It seems
Neo Conservative Andyman is alone with his view.

[andyman]

Yes Arista i am alone with my views in this forum, but luckly not fully so in the political world that know the mistake of pulling out too soom would do.. Of course we must pull out but when the time is right, and leaving the land to the Taliban would be a very bad move.. Arista it would be wise for you to do some research about this and stop reading the papers, don't do it for me.. Do it for yourself.



:/

[WOMBAI]

Yes Arista i am alone with my views in this forum, but luckly not fully so in the political world that know the mistake of pulling out too soom would do.. Of course we must pull out but when the time is right, and leaving the land to the Taliban would be a very bad move.. Arista it would be wise for you to do some research about this and stop reading the papers, don't do it for me.. Do it for yourself.



:/

You still haven't said what makes you the expert on the subject. And if you feel so stongly about it - why don't you sign up and go and fight the good fight then?

[andyman]

You still haven't said what makes you the expert on the subject. And if you feel so stongly about it - why don't you sign up and go and fight the good fight then?What will happen if we pull out too soon?

[Scarlett.]

What will happen if we pull out too soon?
The country will become destablised and become a breeding ground for fanatics who hate us

[WOMBAI]

The country will become destablised and become a breeding ground for fanatics who hate us

It already is and will continue to be whether we stay or not! Staying there will just result in more pointless loss of life of our young troops. I don't see why one more young soldier should die for that country. They create their own problems - they should solve them. Let those that support the war volunteer their services and risk their lives!!

[andyman]

The country will become destablised and become a breeding ground for fanatics who hate usTrue, plus Pakistan is only next door.. With Iraq on the other, would be great news for Iran.

Oh and the drugs, No1 export..

Yes we will pull out but right now is not the time, and it won't happen.. The dumb can moan some more, they really should stick with the X Factor voting..

[InOne]

We go in to help and what do we get? Home grown terrorists.

[WOMBAI]

True, plus Pakistan is only next door.. With Iraq on the other, would be great news for Iran.

Oh and the drugs, No1 export..

Yes we will pull out but right now is not the time, and it won't happen.. The dumb can moan some more, they really should stick with the X Factor voting..

Oh the families of those brave young men and women should stick with x factor voting - what a dumb remark!

[andyman]

We go in to help and what do we get? Home grown terrorists.We had more problems with the IRA..

These home grown terrorists would have the perfect Afgan holiday if all the troops left too soon..

[WOMBAI]

We go in to help and what do we get? Home grown terrorists.

Exactly!

[WOMBAI]

Why exactly is that our problem?

[andyman]

Oh the families of those brave young men and women should stick with x factor voting - what a dumb remark!What is dumb is your disrespect for our troops that have died! They want to see the job done and clearly you have no idea with the matter, hence why YOU should stick with the X Factor voting..

[andyman]

Why exactly is that our problem?Please don't vote in the next election, please.

[WOMBAI]

What is dumb is your disrespect for our troops that have died! They want to see the job done and clearly you have no idea with the matter, hence why YOU should stick with the X Factor voting..

Speak for yourself! You don't know what those men wanted. They were doing their job - doesn't mean they supported the war. I have had a family member over there - and I do know what I am talking about. I repeat - if you believe the war is so important and so justified - you sign up and go and do your bit - risk your life - don't advocate risking the lives of people you don't even know.

[andyman]

Speak for yourself! You don't know what those men wanted. They were doing their job - doesn't mean they supported the war. I have had a family member over there - and I do know what I am talking about. I repeat - if you believe the war is so important and so justified - you sign up and go and do your bit - risk your life - don't advocate risking the lives of people you don't even know.Really? You know what you're talking about?..

Ok what would happen to that part of the world if the troops left asap?

[Oldmansteptoe!]

There is a lot more going on in Afghanistan than the papers report!!!
The troops can't pull out if they ever wish to defeat terrorism and religious fanatics!!!

[WOMBAI]

Really? You know what you're talking about?..

Ok what would happen to that part of the world if the troops left asap?

I don't care about that as much as I do about the lives of our own troops. And why should I? Why should you? Would you, be honest, be willing to sacrifice your father, brother, son, daughter etc for the lives of people in that part of the world?

[andyman]

There is a lot more going on in Afghanistan than the papers report!!!
The troops can't pull out if they ever wish to defeat terrorism and religious fanatics!!!And more drugs from that part of the world would end up on our streets.. Just one of many problems.

[andyman]

I don't care about that as much as I do about the lives of our own troops. And why should I? Why should you? Would you, be honest, be willing to sacrifice your father, brother, son, daughter etc for the lives of people in that part of the world?"I don't care about that".

I rest my case.

[WOMBAI]

There is a lot more going on in Afghanistan than the papers report!!!
The troops can't pull out if they ever wish to defeat terrorism and religious fanatics!!!

You sound like Bush - and I don't agree with that!

[WOMBAI]

"I don't care about that".

I rest my case.

I bet you do. Still haven't said why, if you feel so strongly about it, you don't go and do your bit!

Equally - it is obvious who you are most concerned about - and it isn't our soldiers.

[arista]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1228531/TA-soldier-quit-sales-job-serve-Afghanistan-killed-foot-patrol.html

This UK Troop wrote on a Blogg how he needed Urgent Body Armour
he was killed
blood on the hands of One Eyed Scottish Brown.



Neo Conservative Andyman
rests his case
what a Deluded poster he is.

[andyman]

Yes war is a bitch, but life is bitch.. The fight must go on.

Arista what would happen in that area of the world if the troops left too soon?

[Scarlett.]

True, plus Pakistan is only next door.. With Iraq on the other, would be great news for Iran.

Oh and the drugs, No1 export..

Yes we will pull out but right now is not the time, and it won't happen.. The dumb can moan some more, they really should stick with the X Factor voting..Indeed, war is a bitch, we need to fight on if we want our culture to live on

[andyman]

Arista, what would happen in that area of the world if the troops left too soon?..

[InOne]

We had more problems with the IRA..

These home grown terrorists would have the perfect Afgan holiday if all the troops left too soon..

Yes but they are not the problems of today. We are talking about the here and now.

[Jords]

I hate anything to do with the war, there should be no such thing!

[Scarlett.]

I hate anything to do with the war, there should be no such thing!
Yeah! Cause then we could sit there and get invaded!

[Jords]

Yeah! Cause then we could sit there and get invaded!

No invasions - No war - No army, would make the world so much better.

[Scarlett.]

Without war, there is no peace

[Jords]

And with war there is?

[Scarlett.]

Yep, without war there would be chaos, it is a neccesary evil, the world cannot be perfect, humans cannot live in peace

[Jords]

Of course there is no peace with war, people being killed, their families left in pieces over it, that is not peace at all.

I agree with you that their will always been confliction, but war is not the answer imo.

[Scarlett.]

There are places in the world with peace with war, war is more organised

[SiaSiaSia]

if we leave, the taliban may be a huge threat, but a war against afghanistan is basically unwinnable as russia found in the early 1970s

[andyman]

No invasions - No war - No army, would make the world so much better.That would be good, but we would have to be of one mind for this utopia of peace on earth... Will never happen.

[Jords]

It may be organised, but there is always a better way, not sure what that is right now mind you. A game of scrabble maybe? Nahh, killing isnt the answer though, but thats just my opinion. I do understand where ya coming from sort of, but not about it causing peace.

[Jords]

That would be good, but we would have to be of one mind for this utopia of peace on earth... Will never happen.

Yepp, just wishful thinking hey!

I had an army careers day at school not too long ago,
I 'scived' that day, Ive got not intrest in it what so ever, and
I definately wouldnt want to be part of it, almost encouraging war.

However I do know we need people to join the army cause we cant just say look 'no more war ever', so I do respect the army, for protecting the country and for the ones who are killed, I just dont want to be part of it and i dont think its a good idea.

[andyman]

if we leave, the taliban may be a huge threat, but a war against afghanistan is basically unwinnable as russia found in the early 1970sWe are flushing out the many pockets of the Taliban, but the main goal is to keep the peace within the towns, as of now troops must stay to reach these goals... Its ugly and it will take time but it must be done.

[andyman]

Yepp, just wishful thinking hey!

I had an army careers day at school not too long ago,
I 'scived' that day, Ive got not intrest in it what so ever, and
I definately wouldnt want to be part of it, almost encouraging war.

However I do know we need people to join the army cause we cant just say look 'no more war ever', so I do respect the army, for protecting the country and for the ones who are killed, I just dont want to be part of it and i dont think its a good idea.The troops are only the first stage, rebuilding that area will take more than troops but they must be there to stop the Taliban and let the rebuilding continue, the people there must have hope for them to build a better future..

Plus a strong Taliban would spill out into Pakistan with indirect support from Iran.

[InOne]

We are trianing Afghan forces to deal with it. We are helping their forces too, only so much we can help them. England is in a state as it is.

[Scarlett.]

and training their police, who decide to pay us back with bullets in the back <_<

[InOne]

Yep, we don't get any respect. What the hell has Britain become? Let's not get into that haha

[Jords]

Yeah lets not, Ive only been living for 15 years, but I can see the changes within that gap!

[andyman]

We are trianing Afghan forces to deal with it. We are helping their forces too, only so much we can help them. England is in a state as it is.Still to early to leave, it will happen but not soon.

Years ago the CIA would have opened up a new drugs trade route to fund a group to fight the Taliban, but that is so 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s...

The British did this in China many years ago, the Opium wars are part of our dirty past..

[InOne]

Still to early to leave, it will happen but not soon.

Years ago the CIA would have opened up a new drugs trade route to fund a group to fight the Taliban, but that is so 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s...

The British did this in China many years ago, the Opium wars are part of our dirty past..

Also it is a sad fact the CIA funded the Taliban. And yes Opium has always been a problem, Britain seems to want it from wherever. All stems from the 1900's opium houses.

[andyman]

From 1810, the English East India Company encouraged the cultivtion of opium as a cash crop for exchange on the Chinese market. There was a booming market for imported opium; its growing use in China was a symptom of the despair and decline of a once-proud nation.

[InOne]

Don't think they exist here now. But we were always going to get into drugs.

[andyman]

Still waiting for Arista to post.. Then again i don't think he is... human!

[InOne]

God knows what he is lol

[WOMBAI]

Still waiting for Arista to post.. Then again i don't think he is... human!

Still no comment from you as to why you don't sign up and fight what is for you a crucial fight. All talk and no action! Just want other people to fight for you!

[andyman]

Still no comment from you as to why you don't sign up and fight what is for you a crucial fight. All talk and no action! Just want other people to fight for you!... Very childish of you.

Look into this more please.

[Spike]

No. We shouldn't leave. It would almost certainly cause a world wide disastor if we did
For the saftey of people in Afghanistan and around the world we must stay and see the job through
Pulling out can't even be considered an option at the moment

[andyman]

No. We shouldn't leave. It would almost certainly cause a world wide disastor if we did
For the saftey of people in Afghanistan and around the world we must stay and see the job through
Pulling out can't even be considered an option at the momentHence why we are still there, its a long road but we must see it to the end..

[WOMBAI]

... Very childish of you.

Look into this more please.

I don't need to. You act as though you know so much about it - being patronising to others to disagree. Tell us what makes you such an expert on the subject - what makes your 'opinion' (which is all it is) such a valid one. Until you can come up with something substantial to validate your opinion - I for one won't be taking you very seriously.

Macho idiot wanting to go in all guns blazing - with no thought for those that actually have to fight that fight - and no intention of putting your money where you mouth is - and fighting it yourself.

[andyman]

I don't need to. You act as though you know so much about it - being patronising to others to disagree. Tell us what makes you such an expert on the subject - what makes your 'opinion' (which is all it is) such a valid one. Until you can come up with something substantial to validate your opinion - I for one won't be taking you very seriously.

Macho idiot wanting to go in all guns blazing - with no thought for those that actually have to fight that fight - and no intention of putting your money where you mouth is - and fighting it yourself.Facts i give you miss sweetie pie..

Your posts have gone to another place, lay off the coffee.

[arista]

I don't need to. You act as though you know so much about it - being patronising to others to disagree. Tell us what makes you such an expert on the subject - what makes your 'opinion' (which is all it is) such a valid one. Until you can come up with something substantial to validate your opinion - I for one won't be taking you very seriously.

Macho idiot wanting to go in all guns blazing - with no thought for those that actually have to fight that fight - and no intention of putting your money where you mouth is - and fighting it yourself.



Yes Very True Wombai
Neo Conservative Andyman is alone with his Evil View.

[andyman]

Arista, go read Spike's post.. He speaks the truth.

Utter Fact.

[andyman]

Arista what would happen if we pull out too soon?

[WOMBAI]

Facts i give you miss sweetie pie..

Your posts have gone to another place, lay off the coffee.

Thought not!!! Just more childish sarcasm!

[andyman]

Arista, robotic pompus narrow minded Arista?

[Scarlett.]

No. We shouldn't leave. It would almost certainly cause a world wide disastor if we did
For the saftey of people in Afghanistan and around the world we must stay and see the job through
Pulling out can't even be considered an option at the moment
The Truth

[Scarlett.]

It annoys me how people think we can withdraw from a war because they are getting tired of it

IT DOESNT WORK LIKE THAT! We are partly responsable for the chaos Afganistan is in, we need to finish it off, or at least try to

[WOMBAI]

It annoys me how people think we can withdraw from a war because they are getting tired of it

IT DOESNT WORK LIKE THAT! We are partly responsable for the chaos Afganistan is in, we need to finish it off, or at least try to

If you feel that strongly - why are you not over there doing your bit. Why should others bear the weight of that responsibility - and risk their lives for other people who feel the way you do.

You try waking up in the morning and turning on the tv to find out that a soldier in a regiment a member of your family is in over there - has been killed and just willing that phone not to ring. And we were one of the lucky ones - ours came home - can't even begin to imagine what is like for the families of those that didn't.

Wonder what your views would be then? It is very easy to have strong opinions that other people have to pay for. On top of which - I do not believe our presence is benefiting the situation - all it is achieving is the death of our young troops.

[NettoSuperstar!]

If you feel that strongly - why are you not over there doing your bit. Why should others bear the weight of that responsibility - and risk their lives for other people who feel the way you do.

You try waking up in the morning and turning on the tv to find out that a soldier in a regiment a member of your family is in over there - has been killed and just willing that phone not to ring. And we were one of the lucky ones - ours came home - can't even begin to imagine what is like for the families of those that didn't.

Wonder what your views would be then? It is very easy to have strong opinions that other people have to pay for. On top of which - I do not believe our presence is benefiting the situation - all it is achieving is the death of our young troops.

Chewy didnt decide to join the army so what? they do have a choice you know! My brother left the army, (well he had to really he went mental, but thats another story), I dreaded watching the news all through his tour in Iraq, but he chose to join and he considered any tour, his duty (hence the name Tour of Duty) If he'd have gone to Afghanistan (which he was due to go) I'd have been worried sure but it doesnt take away the fact that a job needs doing and some brave men are willing to do it. Not everyone is born to be a soldier and every job has its benefit to the country, even loo cleaners... doesnt mean you cant have an opinion on it!

[NettoSuperstar!]

haha Andyman just noticed your sig! Qualiteh!...reminds me of ma youth

[NettoSuperstar!]

Remove the troops and let the Taliban run wild with the helf from Iran, which also fund other groups in the middle east.

We must focus on the big picture, pulling out now would put the whole middle eastern area in more danger..

I concur

[NettoSuperstar!]

if we leave, the taliban may be a huge threat, but a war against afghanistan is basically unwinnable as russia found in the early 1970s

Afghanistan were aided by other countries including the USA during that time, The USA used the Afghans during the cold war then left them to rot with their country destroyed when they were no longer needed, thats partly why we have the situation we do now

[WOMBAI]

Chewy didnt decide to join the army so what? they do have a choice you know! My brother left the army, (well he had to really he went mental, but thats another story), I dreaded watching the news all through his tour in Iraq, but he chose to join and he considered any tour, his duty (hence the name Tour of Duty) If he'd have gone to Afghanistan (which he was due to go) I'd have been worried sure but it doesnt take away the fact that a job needs doing and some brave men are willing to do it. Not everyone is born to be a soldier and every job has its benefit to the country, even loo cleaners... doesnt mean you cant have an opinion on it!

Ahh - that subjective word CHOICE! Many joined before the Iraq/Afghanistan events - they didn't ask to be involved in that - many don't agree with it. Can they choose to opt out of that particular war - no. Once in - getting out can be difficult and is a long drawn out process. Also, many join when they are too young to fully understand the implications of their decision. In the eyes of most - many are still boys - although they like to see themselves as men.

It is very easy for some people to advocate risking the lives of others they don't know for a cause they believe in. I say if you feel that strongly about something - you should get your own hands dirty and not expect others to do so on your behalf.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Ahh - that subjective word CHOICE! Many joined before the Iraq/Afghanistan events - they didn't ask to be involved in that - many don't agree with it. Can they choose to opt out of that particular war - no. Once in - getting out can be difficult and is a long drawn out process. Also, many join when they are too young to fully understand the implications of their decision. In the eyes of most - many are still boys - although they like to see themselves as men.

It is very easy for some people to advocate risking the lives of others they don't know for a cause they believe in. I say if you feel that strongly about something - you should get your own hands dirty and not expect others to do so on your behalf.

Yeh they can leave though, it may take a year but if you dont want to go to war then leave, if you dont want to go to war you'd be stupid to join in the first place! and the army have a rigorous training process to weed out people that arent up to the job! Yeh I think fairly strongly that we should be there, but I care more about people who suffer mental health problems, thats why I do the job I do! What are you saying? You cant have an opinion on an internet forum unless your willing to go out and fight for exactly what your saying? Pleeeease!...We can only have opinions on just the things we do??

[WOMBAI]

Yeh they can leave though, it may take a year but if you dont want to go to war then leave, if you dont want to go to war you'd be stupid to join in the first place! and the army have a rigorous training process to weed out people that arent up to the job! Yeh I think fairly strongly that we should be there, but I care more about people who suffer mental health problems, thats why I do the job I do! What are you saying? You cant have an opinion on an internet forum unless your willing to go out and fight for exactly what your saying? Pleeeease!...We can only have opinions on just the things we do??

I am saying that people shouldn't be too quick to say that the troops should stay - all mouth and no action in my book. A lot are young and don't think about the implications of that to others. Most people in this country have had enough of it now and don't want to see the deaths of any more soldiers.

They are not fighting to protect our country from imminent attack - like in the second world war - they are fighting to sort out the problems of another country - it is not their battle. At the very least - soldiers should be able to opt out of such a battle - it should be on a volunteer basis. Why do you think they don't do that - because they wouldn't get enough volunteers. There simply isn't the support for this war that some on here imply.

People do not have the right to expect others to do what they are not prepared to do themselves!

[NettoSuperstar!]

I am saying that people shouldn't be too quick to say that the troops should stay - all mouth and no action in my book. A lot are young and don't think about the implications of that to others. Most people in this country have had enough of it now and don't want to see the deaths of any more soldiers.

They are not fighting to protect our country from imminent attack - like in the second world war - they are fighting to sort out the problems of another country - it is not their battle. At the very least - soldiers should be able to opt out of such a battle - it should be on a volunteer basis. Why do you think they don't do that - because they wouldn't get enough volunteers. There simply isn't the support for this war that some on here imply.

People do not have the right to expect others to do what they are not prepared to do themselves!

They are fighting to restore order to a country that poses a very serious threat to this country, stability in the middle east, and the whole world, freedom and democracy generally

[Scarlett.]

If you feel that strongly - why are you not over there doing your bit. Why should others bear the weight of that responsibility - and risk their lives for other people who feel the way you do.

You try waking up in the morning and turning on the tv to find out that a soldier in a regiment a member of your family is in over there - has been killed and just willing that phone not to ring. And we were one of the lucky ones - ours came home - can't even begin to imagine what is like for the families of those that didn't.

Wonder what your views would be then? It is very easy to have strong opinions that other people have to pay for. On top of which - I do not believe our presence is benefiting the situation - all it is achieving is the death of our young troops.

They made their choice to fight out there, and they have my respect for that, they didnt sign up to stay at a camp in England did they? They're out there making the country a better place

[WOMBAI]

They made their choice to fight out there, and they have my respect for that, they didnt sign up to stay at a camp in England did they? They're out there making the country a better place

That is my point exactly - they joined the army (many to learn a trade) - they didn't join to fight another country's battles. It is all based on religion - nothing to do with our country - why should our soldiers die to make another country better. THEY DID NOT SIGN UP FOR THAT! I take your point about respect - but respect isn't much good to the dead.

[Scarlett.]

That is my point exactly - they joined the army (many to learn a trade) - they didn't join to fight another country's battles. It is all based on religion - nothing to do with our country - why should our soldiers die to make another country better. THEY DID NOT SIGN UP FOR THAT! I take your point about respect - but respect isn't much good to the dead.
We started the war there, so we end it, its our mess

[WOMBAI]

We started the war there, so we end it, its our mess

We didn't start it - those that carried out 9/11 did. Allied forces responded to that attack! That was 8 years ago. It is not our job to sort out their country and rebuild it. If these people spent less time hating and fighting - they might actually have the time to be able to build a better life for themselves.

[Scarlett.]

There is a lot more behind the war than America's so-called "War on Terror"

[WOMBAI]

There is a lot more behind the war than America's so-called "War on Terror"

That may be - but it is still not a fight for our troops!

[AndyJK]

We started the war there, so we end it, its our mess

We were right to invade Afghanistan because of 9/11 (I would have backed the invasion just to get rid of the Taliban), it's the strategy and funding for the equipment that has been the problem. I do believe this government has not treated our armed forces well at all.

We have to remain in Afghanistan until the Afghan government have control and it's safe to leave, or otherwise those men and women who have died in action since 2001 would have done so in vain.

[Scarlett.]

We were right to invade Afghanistan because of 9/11 (I would have backed the invasion just to get rid of the Taliban), it's the strategy and funding for the equipment that has been the problem. I do believe this government has not treated our armed forces well at all.

We have to remain in Afghanistan until the Afghan government have control and it's safe to leave, or otherwise those men and women who have died in action since 2001 would have done so in vain.
I agree with you, the troops need better equipment, and of course, more choppers

[WOMBAI]

I agree with you, the troops need better equipment, and of course, more choppers

Although I see your point - surely those that have already died would not want more soldiers to die trying to solve the problems out there - in order to assure their own deaths have not been in vain. In their place - I would want the others out to save them from the same fate.

[Scarlett.]

Although I see your point - surely those that have already died would not want more soldiers to die trying to solve the problems out there - in order to assure their own deaths have not been in vain. In their place - I would want the others out to save them from the same fate.
I get what your trying to say about it being Afganistan's problems, but we and American have the worlds more advanced miliatary, we arent really allowed to sit back and watch wars like other countries

[AndyJK]

I agree with you, the troops need better equipment, and of course, more choppers

The thing is in these troubled times of a recession when the treasury's coffers are already stretched and whatever money we had spare has been used to bail out banks don't expect any soon.

[WOMBAI]

Was on the news tonight that Afghanistan won't be ready to sort out their own problems for 5 years - our troops cannot stay that long - the death toll will be unbearable. It is too big a price to pay!

[andyman]

Was on the news tonight that Afghanistan won't be ready to sort out their own problems for 5 years - our troops cannot stay that long - the death toll will be unbearable. It is too big a price to pay!And the price will be greater if we leave too soon, it is ugly but we must focus on the big picture..

Enjoy this random music video.

BlAXahObvPM

[WOMBAI]

And the price will be greater if we leave too soon, it is ugly but we must focus on the big picture..

Enjoy this random music video.

BlAXahObvPM

That depends on your idea of the 'bigger picture'!

For me - that is the lives of our brave troops - not those in Afghanistan or the druggies on the streets.