Washington Sniper is Executed, how do you feel?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I must say I felt a feeling of justice done when i heard this today. How do you feel about it instinctively?

[arista]

Correct for America.
That is there way.

[Prole]

How do the families of the people he murdered feel? That's surely the question. I imagine they won't be shedding many tears. Not exactly a great loss to humanity, is it.

[30stone]

Do people believe he was mentally ill or not then?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Do people believe he was mentally ill or not then?

I dont know what legally they decided, I guess if they killed him he must have been of sound mind.

[30stone]

People often kill when they are mentally ill.

They decided he wasn't i believe hence why he was punished like this.

But apparently had gulf war syndrome as he was in that, and was believed to had symptoms of schizophrenia.

That said, he still killed 10 people along with the boy who was 17 at the time, who got a life sentance.

[Stu]

Anybody who kills like that is mentally ill. I don't care if you are not classified as mentally ill, or what the doctors say, you clearly are mentally ****ed by most rational standards if you done what he done.

As for his death? Couldn't care less. Don't have much of an opinion on Capital Punishment. Personally though I am veering towards thinking life imprisonment is just as much suffering. Capital Punishment is essentially a media circus, lets face it. I know what he did was wrong and the victims family's are in distress but do the networks give a ****? Hell no. It's good old fashioned American entertainment to them.

Let's not give it to them, I say.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9e6_1257918131

[\PJ/]

He looks crazed TBH although they always do.

[Niamh.]

I feel nothing

[Prole]

Anybody who kills like that is mentally ill. I don't care if you are not classified as mentally ill, or what the doctors say, you clearly are mentally ****ed by most rational standards if you done what he done.

As for his death? Couldn't care less. Don't have much of an opinion on Capital Punishment. Personally though I am veering towards thinking life imprisonment is just as much suffering. Capital Punishment is essentially a media circus, lets face it. I know what he did was wrong and the victims family's are in distress but do the networks give a ****? Hell no. It's good old fashioned American entertainment to them.

Let's not give it to them, I say.

He killed ten people and so in my opinion forfeited his right to life. If someone I loved had been killed by him I'd certainbly want him either dead, or out where I could get to him.

I'm not sure there are that many American that would agree that this kind of thing is "entertaining", but that it does give victims a sense of justice that they just don't get in this country. Over here, the welfare of the victim comes last after the welfare of the criminal has been taken into account. I think that the majority of people in the UK would back the death penalty, having had decades of bleeing hearts and lefties weeping salt tears for murderers, rapists, paedophiles etc. etc... Life imprisonment in the UK these days usually means a single cell, internet access, 32" flatscreen telly, PS3 and XBox 360...

[Stu]

He killed ten people and so in my opinion forfeited his right to life. If someone I loved had been killed by him I'd certainbly want him either dead, or out where I could get to him.

I'm not sure there are that many American that would agree that this kind of thing is "entertaining", but that it does give victims a sense of justice that they just don't get in this country. Over here, the welfare of the victim comes last after the welfare of the criminal has been taken into account. I think that the majority of people in the UK would back the death penalty, having had decades of bleeing hearts and lefties weeping salt tears for murderers, rapists, paedophiles etc. etc... Life imprisonment in the UK these days usually means a single cell, internet access, 32" flatscreen telly, PS3 and XBox 360...
Don't be silly. Of course they don't find it entertaining in the sense that, oh say, The Simpson's might be entertaining, but we are drawn to the news when things like this happens. And those news stations know it. They thrive on things like this. It all depends on personal opinion, really. If I were a victim I would rather he rot in prison for the rest of his life. I can assure you American prisons are less on the Xbox 360's and more on the beatings and arse rapes. Especially where he would have been going. It's really not as black and white as you make it out.

But what would I know, I'm a crazy lefty :rolleyes:.

[setanta]

I've read it before somewhere - can't remember exactly where - but it goes something like the value of a society can be measured in how it chooses to treat it's poor, weak, damaged or unconnected.

It's not an exact quote because I think there's many variations on it and I'm probably paraphrasing but, in any case, I think it's a very useful statement to remember when you're dealing with situations like this.

[Prole]

Don't be silly. Of course they don't find it entertaining in the sense that, oh say, The Simpson's might be entertaining, but we are drawn to the news when things like this happens. And those news stations know it. They thrive on things like this. It all depends on personal opinion, really. If I were a victim I would rather he rot in prison for the rest of his life. I can assure you American prisons are less on the Xbox 360's and more on the beatings and arse rapes. Especially where he would have been going. It's really not as black and white as you make it out.

But what would I know, I'm a crazy lefty :rolleyes:.

Ahhh I seel You didn't mean that they found it "entertaining". I apologise. I thought the clue was in... THE WORDS.

Stu, nice to debate with you and all that, but I'd be obliged if you don't call me silly for having a different opinion, it makes you seem immature and I'm sure you're not really. I don't have people call me silly in real life, and I would be grateful if you didn't do it on here. I will treat you with a little respect and I expect the same.

Nothing in this world is black and white and I would be the last one to suggest it. I feel I know a little more about the judicial system in the USA than you give me credit for. There's really no need to be so aggressive.

And for the record, I never called you a leftie, but if the shoe fits, please feel free to slip it on.

[Stu]

Ahhh I seel You didn't mean that they found it "entertaining". I apologise. I thought the clue was in... THE WORDS.

Sorry, I thought the clue was in THE CONTEXT. Did my post really give you images of the wife and kids with daddy sitting down to watch the bold men get a needle in his veins, popcorn and all?

Stu, nice to debate with you and all that, but I'd be obliged if you don't call me silly for having a different opinion
I did not call you silly for your opinions. I called you silly for the rather silly way you went about generalizing, exaggerations and all. I am sure you could have expressed your opinions in a better way.

Nothing in this world is black and white and I would be the last one to suggest it. I feel I know a little more about the judicial system in the USA than you give me credit for. There's really no need to be so aggressive.

Who is getting aggressive? The word 'silly'? Seriously man. This is a forum. Treat it like so and chill the **** out. I simply do not believe in Capital Punishment and did not appreciate the tar brush of us all being compassionate towards killers.

Different opinions, that's all. There's really no need to get all prom and proper about this unless this is indeed a court of law.

[WOMBAI]

Anybody who kills like that is mentally ill. I don't care if you are not classified as mentally ill, or what the doctors say, you clearly are mentally ****ed by most rational standards if you done what he done.

As for his death? Couldn't care less. Don't have much of an opinion on Capital Punishment. Personally though I am veering towards thinking life imprisonment is just as much suffering. Capital Punishment is essentially a media circus, lets face it. I know what he did was wrong and the victims family's are in distress but do the networks give a ****? Hell no. It's good old fashioned American entertainment to them.

Let's not give it to them, I say.

That may be true - but need to consider whether tax payers should have to fork out hundereds of thousands of pounds, over the years, to keep him in prison. Do it for one - got to do it for all. Money could be better spent. He did what he did - has to pay the price. In cases of mass murder - capital punishment should apply.

[Stu]

That may be true - but need to consider whether tax payers should have to fork out hundereds of thousands of pounds, over the years, to keep him in prison. Do it for one - got to do it for all. Money could be better spent. He did what he did - has to pay the price. In cases of mass murder - capital punishment should apply.
How many mass murderers do we have a year compared to the total prison populace? You could say the same thing about locking people up for popping Ecstasy pills and dancing like a nutter. Locking non violent offenders up is costing Americans dearly.

Besides, I am no expert, but I suspect lethal injection is quiet a costly procedure.

[Prole]

Sorry, I thought the clue was in THE CONTEXT. Did my post really give you images of the wife and kids with daddy sitting down to watch the bold men get a needle in his veins, popcorn and all?


I did not call you silly for your opinions. I called you silly for the rather silly way you went about generalizing, exaggerations and all. I am sure you could have expressed your opinions in a better way.


Who is getting aggressive? The word 'silly'? Seriously man. This is a forum. Treat it like so and chill the **** out. I simply do not believe in Capital Punishment and did not appreciate the tar brush of us all being compassionate towards killers.

Different opinions, that's all. There's really no need to get all prom and proper about this unless this is indeed a court of law.


Stu, you've done a fair bit of generalising yourself but I think you're far from silly. Having someone start their post to you with "don't be silly..." is a bit provocative and I reacted because I don't know you And I am totally chilled the phuq out, I can assure ya.

Context is fine, but you have to admit it's not something that is usually used too deeply on this forum, so I suppose I didn't realise you were being "subtle" and for that I apologise.

Just because you do not believe in capital punishment I did not imply that you were one of the touchy-feelie lefties I hate so much, you assumed that, the way I assumed you were calling me silly.

This is clearly not a court of law, or most people would be referred to as "the defendant". That was humour :-)

[Stu]

Stu, you've done a fair bit of generalising yourself but I think you're far from silly. Having someone start their post to you with "don't be silly..." is a bit provocative and I reacted because I don't know you And I am totally chilled the phuq out, I can assure ya.

Context is fine, but you have to admit it's not something that is usually used too deeply on this forum, so I suppose I didn't realise you were being "subtle" and for that I apologise.

Just because you do not believe in capital punishment I did not imply that you were one of the touchy-feelie lefties I hate so much, you assumed that, the way I assumed you were calling me silly.

This is clearly not a court of law, or most people would be referred to as "the defendant". That was humour :-)
I could not care less if you started your post with the line ''Don't be silly...'' because I know it's not the end of the world. It really ... is not that big a deal. I would never have called you up on it and I never would have bothered to really mention it. It's just ... nothing, really.

Can't really see much generalization at all in my posts, considering I was the one who made the point initially that it is not black and white and Capital Punishment is down to personal opinion.

I certainly did not generalize to the level of the whole salt tears for paedophiles shtick which in fairness is a bit ludicrous and unfair, even to those kerazy lefties you hate so much.

As for being provocative, this defendant is guilty as charged.

[Fom]

He would not of been executed had he been mentally ill, he was just a sick person...

[Dr.Gonzo]

I feel good today thanks.

[InOne]

I think capital punishment is wrong. Does not solve anything and costs loads. I think it would be better to study people like this, and yes people who commit these acts are clearly mentally ill. People are always quick to judge, but that is why you need to go in their past. If we find out the roots of these problems then maybe we can look for the signs early on, and try help the children then. Some people obviously can never be let out, and probably can't be helped, but I think it's better to get whatever information we can to help other people, rathen than killing them and getting a quick fix.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think capital punishment is wrong. Does not solve anything and costs loads. I think it would be better to study people like this, and yes people who commit these acts are clearly mentally ill. People are always quick to judge, but that is why you need to go in their past. If we find out the roots of these problems then maybe we can look for the signs early on, and try help the children then. Some people obviously can never be let out, and probably can't be helped, but I think it's better to get whatever information we can to help other people, rathen than killing them and getting a quick fix.

its not solving it is revenge and justice

[InOne]

its not solving it is revenge and justice

Revenge makes you as bad as him.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Revenge makes you as bad as him.

If it is the democratic wish of the nation, not so.

[InOne]

If it is the democratic wish of the nation, not so.

You should see how people react to some executions, cheering, holding up banners and singing songs, it's sick.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You should see how people react to some executions, cheering, holding up banners and singing songs, it's sick.

I like Ireland

[Stu]

I like Ireland
Saywha? You know we don't have Capital Punishment here, right?

[Z]

I don't think you could ever rehabilitate somebody so badly messed up; there would be no point in trying. Plus, every person is an individual, somebody so crazed would more than likely have been affected by a few incidents, or one big one (i.e. the war thing mentioned earlier) that set them off. People are individuals, there's not really much of a correlation between one person's experiences in life to cause them to be a nutjob and another. I think, in cases like this, the death penalty is necessary.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Saywha? You know we don't have Capital Punishment here, right?

I thought that they had brought it back in for the twins?:conf:

[Stu]

I thought that they had brought it back in for the twins?:conf:
We are working on it :blush:.

[Ninastar]

I can remember this. I lived in america at the time and I lived about 45 mins away from washington DC so they made sure that everyone was safe. We werent allowed outside at all during school and people who walked had to get the buses. There was even this one boy who lived right next to the school and they made him get the bus. they were really serious and protective about it.

[Ninastar]

and I feel that he kinda deserves it. He killed these people for no reason and caused thousands and thousands to be scared to leave there own home.

[WOMBAI]

I thought that they had brought it back in for the twins?:conf:

For crimes against decency and good taste! :joker:

And for single-handedly destroying a talent show! :nono:

[InOne]

I see all the seriousness has gone from this topic then! lol

[Crimson Dynamo]

I see all the seriousness has gone from this topic then! lol

Over 25,000 children die every day around the world. With that in mind perhaps him getting the fast track to judgement is not so bad?

[InOne]

Over 25,000 children die every day around the world. With that in mind perhaps him getting the fast track to judgement is not so bad?

Why end one life of a mad man when you can prevent it the lives of others by finding out what sets these kind of people off. Maybe he had a mental breakdown and his conscience might have returned, he would be suffering then anyway.

[WOMBAI]

There are all sorts of laws in place these days to protect people with mental health problems - they would never execute someone who had such issues!

[InOne]

There are all sorts of laws in place these days to protect people with mental health problems - they would never execute someone who had such issues!

I am sure they have done before and will do again.

[Stu]

Over 25,000 children die every day around the world. With that in mind perhaps him getting the fast track to judgement is not so bad?
Then perhaps we should focus on world hunger and the like instead of wasting time debating on whether to kill a killer or lock him up? Seriously, I know he did wrong, but it worries me when so many people not directly involved need to bay for blood to make them feel more secure in bed at night. Throw him in a cell and leave him rot. It's cheaper and he may realize what he has done and will suffer through it.

Christians for the death penalty. That's another chuckle. I never knew ''Thou shalt not kill'' had a footnote.

[Crimson Dynamo]

And perhaps we should focus on world hunger and the like instead of wasting time debating on whether to kill a killer or lock him up? Seriously, I know he did wrong, but it worries me when so many people not directly involved need to bay for blood to make them feel more secure in bed at night. Throw him in a cell and leave him rot. It's cheaper and he may realize what he has done and will suffer through it.

Christians for the death penalty. That's another chuckle. I never knew ''Thou shalt not kill'' had a footnote.

I have not specifically said that I just said it feels like justice perhaps. The Christian response is, as you know, that we do not judge and must ultimately forgive as we have been forgiven but even though Jesus was against individual murder i "think" he still was down with mosaic law during his life on earth and that included cap pun. dont quote me on it though.

[Stu]

I have not specifically said that I just said it feels like justice perhaps. The Christian response is, as you know, that we do not judge and must ultimately forgive as we have been forgiven but even though Jesus was against individual murder i "think" he still was down with mosaic law during his life on earth and that included cap pun. dont quote me on it though.
No worries, that was not aimed at you in particular. I just remember someone saying it from way back.

It is funny on that note, however, to note the contradiction between the mosaic law of capital punishment and the cornerstone of the entire mosaic law, the ten commandments. Contradiction #123456.

Gave me a hoot, anyway.

[WOMBAI]

So what do you suggest we do with killers like that then?

[Crimson Dynamo]

So what do you suggest we do with killers like that then?

we have no answer other than lock them up and hope they die

[Stu]

So what do you suggest we do with killers like that then?
Ever heard of prison? Opinions aside, stop pretending Capital Punishment is the only thing that can be done.

[Niamh.]

Ever heard of prison? Opinions aside, stop pretending Capital Punishment is the only thing that can be done.

having to spend your whole life in prison is a worse punishment than execution anyway imo

[Z]

having to spend your whole life in prison is a worse punishment than execution anyway imo

What does it achieve though? If you're going to lock someone up for life, i.e. until they die, why not just kill them anyway? That's on the more than likely assumption that if they're in jail for life, they committed a very serious crime. I don't think jail OR capital punishment are the answer to society's problems, but I'd rather see somebody killed for committing a serious crime, rather than being a drain on taxpayers' money by being accommodated in jail for the rest of their life.

[Niamh.]

What does it achieve though? If you're going to lock someone up for life, i.e. until they die, why not just kill them anyway? That's on the more than likely assumption that if they're in jail for life, they committed a very serious crime. I don't think jail OR capital punishment are the answer to society's problems, but I'd rather see somebody killed for committing a serious crime, rather than being a drain on taxpayers' money by being accommodated in jail for the rest of their life.

Well whats the alternative Jail or Capital punishment?

I take your point on taxpayers money being spent, personaly I'd like to see chain gangs and have them work for their keep!

[Stu]

What does it achieve though? If you're going to lock someone up for life, i.e. until they die, why not just kill them anyway? That's on the more than likely assumption that if they're in jail for life, they committed a very serious crime. I don't think jail OR capital punishment are the answer to society's problems, but I'd rather see somebody killed for committing a serious crime, rather than being a drain on taxpayers' money by being accommodated in jail for the rest of their life.
People make assumptions that because Capital Punishment is quick it must be cheap. It's not. It's at least as expensive, if not more, than housing a prisoner in a cell and giving him three meals a day for the rest of his life.

Have you any idea even what the medical personnel who are giving him the injection have to be paid? Or the price of commissioning such an injection? Or all the legal red tape that has to be bypassed? Besides, like I said earlier, it costs far, far, far more to keep certain inmates in jail.

And to be honest, I think the rational you outlined in the first sentence is very odd. I know they done bad things, and I am not an apologist for them, but you cant throw them into a black hole like rats and forget they ever existed. Locking him up might at the least achieve some revelation and sufferance in his mind. Hanging him will just quench the public and the medias thirst to see even more blood to feel some retribution.

[Z]

I wasn't thinking of the lethal injection though, I was thinking about good old fashioned hanging; is there even a cost to that beyond paying the hangman? There is no alternative to jail or capital punishment, I just don't think either are a solution to the problems of society - essentially I'm whining :P.

So what if the prisoner feels remorse? It's not going to revive the person they killed/prevent the crime they committed, it's not a comfort to the family of the victim(s) and showing remorse won't claim back the years they spent in jail. It's not even guaranteed that a prisoner is going to regret committing a crime. The primary argument against capital punishment is obviously the potential for a wrongly accused person to be sentenced to death - while you can't argue that that could happen, and has done, I can only help but feel that the only people that this has happened to are people who have made themselves look extremely guilty, or victims of a cover-up/conspiracy - either way, it's just a case of wrong place, wrong time. It's just my view though, I think that capital punishment should be used when dealing with serious cases of violent murder, mass murder and other things on that kind of level.

[Stu]

I wasn't thinking of the lethal injection though, I was thinking about good old fashioned hanging; is there even a cost to that beyond paying the hangman?
There would be. Enormous amount goes into killing someone my friend. Besides which, if we did bring back Capital Punishment, you can bet your bottom dollar it would be the jab, not the rope. Bringing it back would be a challenge enough that would upset quiet a lot of people. I don't think we would choose an archaic method of execution.

It's not going to revive the person they killed/prevent the crime they committed, it's not a comfort to the family of the victim(s) and showing remorse won't claim back the years they spent in jail. It's not even guaranteed that a prisoner is going to regret committing a crime.
A lot of that can be said for Capital Punishment as well though. And it may not turn back the time but if the prisoner does feel remorse, he will have claimed some of his humanity back which at the least can't be a bad thing.

Plus, while I am not religious, we are also forgetting a huge sector of this debate - that being the whole 'playing god' argument which would upset people too.

[WOMBAI]

Why should we care if he suffers? Did he care when he killed those people? All those people who had lives ahead of them - snuffed out for ever. Why should his quality of life bother us? Maybe he was evil, deluded or inadequate - who knows or cares. He was obviously deemed to be mentally compentent enough to be held accountable for his crimes - and therefore deserved the punishment. As a rule - I am actually against capital punishment - but I do believe there are exceptions - and mass murder is one of them - when proven, beyond doubt, that the person committed the crime.

Not about blood lust - but about principle and deterrent.

[Stu]

Your giving another boring argument quiet a lot of people give. This has nothing to do with me caring about his suffering and that's not what my argument is based around. I never said that. Perhaps you would like to enlighten me as to where I did.

Quiet a lot of prisoners suffer far, far more in prison. That's why things like suicide watch exists.

[Z]

I have little to no knowledge of the costs of hanging; but surely beyond paying for the services of the hangman and maintenance of facilities, there is nothing else to pay for? It's hardly archaic, it was still in use in Britain in the 1950s. While I agree with you in cases of a crime of passion, or a crime that isn't as serious as murder where the murderer/criminal will undoubtedly feel remorse; but I'm talking about deranged lunatics such as the Washington Sniper, people who didn't know their victims and therefore aren't nearly as likely to experience remorse.

The 'playing god' thing comes down to personal beliefs though, anybody who objects to it isn't going to change their mind.

Just to reiterate, I'm only applying the capital punishment thing to deranged nutters like the Washington Sniper; I don't think capital punishment is a better alternative to jail, just for people like that, it seems like a waste to try and rehabilitate them.

[Stu]

I have little to no knowledge of the costs of hanging; but surely beyond paying for the services of the hangman and maintenance of facilities, there is nothing else to pay for?
The amount of red tape and legal documents, regardless of method, is huge. Simply staging an execution is very costly. And I really don't think we would be hanging people if it were brought back. It would be lethal injection all the way. These days it sort of has the 'cleaner' if you like of all the images of execution.

I think I agree with you on one thing, and that is that there really is no method or help available for such a sick individual, but like you use that as the basis of your opinion, I say if nothing is going to help him anyway, just throw him in a cell. I don't really think killing more people really helps improve things, even in extreme cases.

Here's a nice suggestion : Why not take it out of the hand's of the government and leave it up to unanimous vote by the victim[s] family[s]? That sounds far more logical to me and even though I still don't think you should have to see another person killed to feel 'avenged' in some way it seems to make a great deal more sense.

[WOMBAI]

You did say we can't throw them like rats into black holes and forget they existed - why not? That does suggest some sympathy. Besides jail these days is hardly that.

I am a strong believer in accountability - too many excuses made for people's behaviour. For a crime like that - a lifetime in reasonably comfortable conditions isn't punishment enough - in my book - no doubt many agree.

[Stu]

You did say we can't throw them like rats into black holes and forget they existed - why not? That does suggest some sympathy. Besides jail these days is hardly that.
Well first of all I was not even talking about jail when I made that comment, I was talking about Capital Punishment. I am not going to start arguing with someone who cannot understand what I am saying.

In either case it's a shame you missed out on the sentence I conveniently put right before what you called me up on :

and I am not an apologist for them.

[WOMBAI]

Fair enough - I read it wrong - but maybe your arguments don't inspire the level of concentration needed to read some of your posts.

[Stu]

Fair enough - I read it wrong - but maybe your arguments don't inspire the level of concentration needed to read some of your posts.
My argument is just an opinion. An opinion that I am not for Capital Punishment. There can be no comment upon the value of it either way from another party because it is just that - my opinion. Zee understands and seems to be putting across his points very well.

Funny that they did inspire you to counter argue right up until now :rolleyes:.

[WOMBAI]

Funny how you can continue to argue with someone so stupid they can't understand what you are saying!

Maybe I wouldn't have bothered - if I had been aware that you were such a superior intellect - not obvious from your posts. Get over yourself!

[Stu]

Funny how you can continue to argue with someone so stupid they can't understand what you are saying!

Maybe I wouldn't have bothered - if I had been aware that you were such a superior intellect - not obvious from your posts. Get over yourself!
Wait a minuet here, this has nothing to do with intellect, like I already explained, it has to do with viewpoint. Viewpoint has nothing to do with superior intellect, and it has everything to do with opinion.

What exactly would you like me to 'get over'? I manage to debate just fine with everybody else. You just have egg all over your face. You are the one that's ceased to give any rational arguments about the subject matter, in favor of needless bell enderey towards me just because I pointed something out to you [that I don't have compassion] that was obvious to anybody from the start, and your method of response was to say that my arguments do not inspire concentration.

That's your problem, not mine. Might I suggest learning the difference between fact based intellect and ethic based moral stances which differ from person to person before you throw yourself like a child on train tracks into such harrowing subject matter in the future.

[WOMBAI]

There you go again - can't help yourself can you! Whether you "debate just fine with everybody else" is debateable in itself. You have a way of making your OPINIONS sound like fact - when they are not. You are certainly very quick to put down the opinions of others. It certainly isn't me getting on their high horse and throwing a tantrum - in response to criticism.

[Stu]

You have a way of making your OPINIONS sound like fact - when they are not.

You know what? You are so right.

Don't have much of an opinion on Capital Punishment. Personally though...

Different opinions, that's all.

Capital Punishment is down to personal opinion.

My argument is just an opinion. An opinion that I am not for Capital Punishment.

Viewpoint has nothing to do with superior intellect, and it has everything to do with opinion.

On second thoughts, no.

It certainly isn't me getting on their high horse and throwing a tantrum - in response to criticism.

Yes it is. I was debating with everybody just fine until you came along and started acting the maggot. You were the one who originally made this silly comment :

maybe your arguments don't inspire the level of concentration needed to read some of your posts.


You are also the only person to ever tell me I make my opinions sound like fact. I just voice my opinions. Same as Prole has done. Same as LeatherTrumpet has done. Same as Niamh has done. Same as Zee has done. Same as everybody has done, really. The only difference is all these people took the time to properly read my posts before jumping into the fray suggesting I had sympathy for mass murderers.

[WOMBAI]

I just voice mine! If you insult others - expect it back! I am sure I could go back and pick out bits of things you have said from various posts to make them fit my argument - but obviously more important to you than me. Maybe some people are just diplomatic with what they say - to avoid arguments - as your retorts are very over-bearing in nature. I think we better call it quits now - before we both say something we might regret - not going to get banned for you.

[Shaun]

I remember this on the news back in 2002.

As for the execution...well I'm not happy but I'm not angered by it, so...oh well.

[NettoSuperstar!]

I've read it before somewhere - can't remember exactly where - but it goes something like the value of a society can be measured in how it chooses to treat it's poor, weak, damaged or unconnected.

It's not an exact quote because I think there's many variations on it and I'm probably paraphrasing but, in any case, I think it's a very useful statement to remember when you're dealing with situations like this.

True and if half the people had any experience of loved ones who have experienced psychosis they might not be celebrating this mans death. He was clearly far removed from the reality most of us share. "There but for the grace of god go I"...(You'd think a Christian would feel the same way haha guess not!

[Tom4784]

I'm against Execution, We don't have the right to judge if someone lives or dies and doing so just makes us as bad as the perpetrator. A life of inprisonment can be much more of a punishment then Execution.

Saying that there are times what push my beliefs but generally I think that sometimes living can be a harsher punishment then death.

[Stu]

I just voice mine! If you insult others - expect it back! I am sure I could go back and pick out bits of things you have said from various posts to make them fit my argument - but obviously more important to you than me. Maybe some people are just diplomatic with what they say - to avoid arguments - as your retorts are very over-bearing in nature. I think we better call it quits now - before we both say something we might regret - not going to get banned for you.
No, you did not 'just voice yours'. You voiced an uneducated opinion that I had sympathy for mass murderers, which I quiet rightly pulled you up on, and having realised your mistake you admitted that but followed it up with a completely needless jab. Even if what you were saying about me was true you really should be ... I don't know ... setting better standards?

I never insulted you, and I don't insult people in arguments unless I am insulted first or unless the person is quiet clearly a troll. I did call Prole silly, a trivial quip more than an insult, for making a comparison I thought was a bit exaggerated, but that was cleared up ages ago.

Again, everything your saying to me your the only person to ever say it which makes me think you just have a chip on your shoulder considering how this was all your own doing with that daft little post about my posts not deserving concentration. Remember, you made that post, not me.

I can't get over how hilarious this is. You have a very, very manipulative way of passing a comment on someone and then when they attempt to retort, lambast them for ever attempting to retort while putting yourself on some forum pedestal.

You made the comment, I called you up on it, and now your changing your own arguments and ignoring mine to try and play role reversal. As for the inevitable wondering as to why I am keeping this up, please don't speak for the both of us by saying 'we should quit' just because it makes life easier for you. If you want to quit you are more than welcome to, but I feel I have to defend myself against such common stupidity. Do what you want, and I will be more than happy to accommodate it in a manner suitable to your bizarre system of posting.

[WOMBAI]

Ever heard of prison? Opinions aside, stop pretending Capital Punishment is the only thing that can be done.

I originally asked the question - what did you suggest we did with these killers - and above is your response. Not very productive - only provacative and accusing. Stop trying to imply - I started this. I wasn't saying it was the only thing that could be done - only stating that I believed (my opinion) it was the best way of dealing with such people - that as a tax-payer I could understand that tax-payers in the States would not want to fund his keep for the rest of his life.

[Stu]

You asked what could be done, I responded, because I believe prison is better. Not great, but certainly better. And something that can be improved, more importantly. There is still no insult contained within that post. At least by most rational people's standards who don't take the forum as diplomatically miserable as you seem to. There is a whole gulf of difference between that and ''maybe your arguments don't inspire the level of concentration needed to read some of your posts'' which you posted because, let's face it, you simply misread my original argument. Which was a nice, fine, dandy productive argument.

And then came all the stuff about my opinion being fact and blah-de-blah. Hardly the pinnacle of productive posting and hardly factual, as I more than pointed out to you.

[WOMBAI]

[There is a whole gulf of difference between that and ''maybe your arguments don't inspire the level of concentration needed to read some of your posts'' which you posted because, let's face it, you simply misread my original argument. Which was a nice, fine, dandy productive argument.

And then came all the stuff about my opinion being fact and blah-de-blah. Hardly the pinnacle of productive posting and hardly factual, as I more than pointed out to you.[/QUOTE]

The concentration comment was in response to your comment (which I took as an insult, understandably) that you weren't going to argue with someone who didn't understand what you were saying. Definite implication - I was too thick to understand - so although I admitted that I misread it - I also pointed out that there may have been faults on both sides - that the way you put things sometimes was open to misinterrpretation. Was a bit sarky about the way I said - just as you often are in response to my comments.

[Stu]

Definite implication
Yeah. The implication being that you did not understand what I was saying. Which you didn't. Simple. With reference to that post, the post you originally called me up on, there was absolutely no doubt as to what I said, so don't play that card. I put the sentence saying I was not sympathizing/playing apologist RIGHT BEFORE the part which you quoted. Which I also pointed out to you ages ago.

Christ almighty.

[Fom]

I have no sympathy for this kind of thing and he is better gone, cost of an injection is about $50, cost of keeping him alive goes into the thousands.

[Stu]

I have no sympathy for this kind of thing and he is better gone, cost of an injection is about $50, cost of keeping him alive goes into the thousands.
Each candidate has to, by law, appeal his case in the scenario of lethal injection at least once at the supreme court, which costs millions.

[Fom]

Each candidate has to, by law, appeal his case in the scenario of lethal injection at least once at the supreme court, which costs millions.

Are you sure millions isn't an over exaggeration? Keeping him alive until he dies would cost a lot too.

(Just realised the stupidity in the last sentence but you get what I mean)

[Stu]

Are you sure millions isn't an over exaggeration? Keeping him alive until he dies would cost a lot too.

(Just realised the stupidity in the last sentence but you get what I mean)
:joker:

Nope, it's not exaggeration. A supreme court case in America is ginormous, and obviously the government has to pay the whole jobbie from top to bottom, and cases can go on for literally years. I don't have exact figures, but it would certainly pass the one million mark.

Meanwhile, a plate of gruel three times a day and a weekly psychiatrist meeting and health check should not cost that much, I would imagine.

[Fom]

:joker:

Nope, it's not exaggeration. A supreme court case in America is ginormous, and obviously the government has to pay the whole jobbie from top to bottom, and cases can go on for literally years. I don't have exact figures, but it would certainly pass the one million mark.

Meanwhile, a plate of gruel three times a day and a weekly psychiatrist meeting and health check should not cost that much, I would imagine.

Fair enough, I didn't realise it costs that much. On the other hand, one less b*stard in the world.

[Stu]

Of course, to be fair, the alternative of reforming and improving the prison system would cost millions too I guess.

[WOMBAI]

God - your'e annoyingly pedantic. I mis-read what you said - big deal. Mis-reading does not equate to a lack of understanding. You were deliberately being insulting and provocative. I stand by my belief that the way you write - sometimes contributes to such misunderstandings. Maybe I am wrong - maybe I wasn't concentrating properly - I am in the middle of writing a presentation, and just keep flitting back to Tibb - whatever - I really am past caring now. If you want the last word - you can have it.

[Stu]

No doubt you will respond with some kind of quipp that I have nothing to respond with - and am retreating in defeat - and if that is what you want to believe - then so be it.
No doubt that was designed in an attempt to have the last word yourself, despite me already saying I don't care. I don't really believe in the concept of last words like you do. It's childish. All debates and arguments have to end somewhere, with someone posting something. That's natural.

And this is my something :

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/kingofthering/MiserableOldGit-final.jpg

[WOMBAI]

http://happyface2[1]