do soldiers go to hell?

[Stephanie]

:conf:

[Niamh.]

hhhhmmmmm, good question Stephanie (If you believe in hell that is!!)

[Stu]

You mean Afghanistan?

[Niamh.]

You mean Afghanistan?

haha:joker:

[WOMBAI]

:conf:

What exactly do you mean by that question? Surely you can't think there is any reason for our soldiers to go to hell?

[Stephanie]

What exactly do you mean by that question? Surely you can't think there is any reason for our soldiers to go to hell?
killing people lol..

[Crimson Dynamo]

If you are talking Biblically and by hell do you mean eternally being apart from God


yes they do

[Niamh.]

What exactly do you mean by that question? Surely you can't think there is any reason for our soldiers to go to hell?

well, killing someone is a sin according to the 10 commandments and they do kill people, I don't believe in hell anyway!

[arista]

No


Blair the War Criminal that got us in this Utter Mess
goes to Double Hell.

[Stu]

They may not be going to hell, but it shouldn't bother them. After all, they volunteered to send themselves out to do a job where possible loss of ego, loss of limbs, loss of confidence, mental breakdown, family separation, death by RV, death by gunshot wounds, death by disease, and death by landmine are all plausible risks. All under some fake pretense of 'honor' for the country. It's just stupidity. They aint' the sharpest in the land, let's face it.

Let other idiots do the job. Sending yourself out to war is unfair to both yourself and everyone you know. I know the adverts they market to sixteen year old's on MTV & Viva don't show it that way, but it's the truth. It's like the argument about letting gay's in the military people always had. Who cares? Anybody dumb enough to want to join the military should be let in.

[Tom4784]

I suppose it depends on whether you believe in Hell and if a commandment has loopholes. Is a soldier killing an enemy considered murder or self defense? If it is murder are they to blame as they are only following orders?

I don't think soliders would go to hell if it exists, unless they killed innocents or something. I don't believe if there is a hell it'd be so black and white as to damn a person so easily. But then again what do I know? The path to ruin's paved with good intentions afterall.

[WOMBAI]

killing people lol..

They were sent by our government! You do understand that they have little choice don't you? Most don't want to be there! They are being forced by the government to risk their lives for the sake of the people of Afghanistan and for the political interests of our government! Those soldiers are heroes!

[Niamh.]

They were sent by our government! You do understand that they have little choice don't you? Most don't want to be there! They are being forced by the government to risk their lives for the sake of the people of Afghanistan and for the political interests of our government! Those soldiers are heroes!

That's one war you're talking about, she's talking about soldiers in general.

[Stu]

They were sent by our government! You do understand that they have little choice don't you? Most don't want to be there! They are being forced by the government to risk their lives for the sake of the people of Afghanistan and for the political interests of our government! Those soldiers are heroes!
But coming from a Biblical standpoint, I can see where she is coming from. I didn't know 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' had a footnote.

As for soldiers being forced into war, common sense would dictate not to join the army. War being one of the armies primary activities. I would rather work a red light district in Amsterdam. At least that way I could be a prostitute on my own terms.

[WOMBAI]

They may not be going to hell, but it shouldn't bother them. After all, they volunteered to send themselves out to do a job where possible loss of ego, loss of limbs, loss of confidence, mental breakdown, family separation, death by RV, death by gunshot wounds, death by disease, and death by landmine are all plausible risks. All under some fake pretense of 'honor' for the country. It's just stupidity. They aint' the sharpest in the land, let's face it.

Let other idiots do the job. Sending yourself out to war is unfair to both yourself and everyone you know. I know the adverts they market to sixteen year old's on MTV & Viva don't show it that way, but it's the truth. It's like the argument about letting gay's in the military people always had. Who cares? Anybody dumb enough to want to join the military should be let in.

Have you ever thought that the country has to have a military force. Without those that volunteer to join the forces - national service would be introduced - which would mean that probably all blokes between the ages of 18 and 40 would be enlisted whether they wanted to or not! All the cowards would be forced to risk their necks for a change - instead of sitting around ridiculing the brave ones that do.

[Niamh.]

But coming from a Biblical standpoint, I can see where she is coming from. I didn't know 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' had a footnote.

"Thou shall not Kill" - terms & conditions apply

[Stu]

Have you ever thought that the country has to have a military force. Without those that volunteer to join the forces - national service would be introduced - which would mean that probably all blokes between the ages of 18 and 40 would be enlisted whether they wanted to or not! All the cowards would be forced to risk their necks for a change - instead of sitting around ridiculing the brave ones that do.
I already covered that point when I said 'let other idiots do the job'. People still join the army. My words certainly wont stop them. I don't think there is anything brave about it. And I certainly don't think not wanting to join the army and not wanting your mother to read mail detailing your death counts as making you a ****ing coward, for christ sake.

"Thou shall not Kill" - terms & conditions apply
:joker:

[Stephanie]

if they want to join the army then it's their fault if they get blown up tbh
kinda stupid, not brave.

[Tom]

They may not be going to hell, but it shouldn't bother them. After all, they volunteered to send themselves out to do a job where possible loss of ego, loss of limbs, loss of confidence, mental breakdown, family separation, death by RV, death by gunshot wounds, death by disease, and death by landmine are all plausible risks. All under some fake pretense of 'honor' for the country. It's just stupidity. They aint' the sharpest in the land, let's face it.

Let other idiots do the job. Sending yourself out to war is unfair to both yourself and everyone you know. I know the adverts they market to sixteen year old's on MTV & Viva don't show it that way, but it's the truth. It's like the argument about letting gay's in the military people always had. Who cares? Anybody dumb enough to want to join the military should be let in.

I think you're tarring too many people with the same brush here. I was in the RAF when I was younger and rejoined again recently (but dropped back out again :joker:), went through a hell of a lot of training and tbh was pretty set on it. And although I passed some course and got stuck on a reserve list for a few years/months down the line, I quit because of everything in bold. It is a voluntary job and people shouldn't forget that. E.g. if you take the Facebook group with almost 1m members about Soldiers deserving footballers wages, do they hell. They chose to do that job, they could've done something else. They know the risks, its all drilled into you time and time again. You're brainwashed into believing it is the right thing to do and you're fighting for your country.

[setanta]

But coming from a Biblical standpoint, I can see where she is coming from. I didn't know 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' had a footnote.

As for soldiers being forced into war, common sense would dictate not to join the army. War being one of the armies primary activities. I would rather work a red light district in Amsterdam. At least that way I could be a prostitute on my own terms.

It's mandatory in some countries to serve for a certain length of time.

[Niamh.]

It's mandatory in some countries to serve for a certain length of time.

not in Britain though

[setanta]

not in Britain though

But sure Stu isn't in Britain so I thought it was an interesting point to mention.

[Niamh.]

But sure Stu isn't in Britain so I thought it was an interesting point to mention.

ok, not in Ireland either but I know you're right

[Stu]

I think you're tarring too many people with the same brush here. I was in the RAF when I was younger and rejoined again recently (but dropped back out again :joker:), went through a hell of a lot of training and tbh was pretty set on it. And although I passed some course and got stuck on a reserve list for a few years/months down the line, I quit because of everything in bold. It is a voluntary job and people shouldn't forget that. E.g. if you take the Facebook group with almost 1m members about Soldiers deserving footballers wages, do they hell. They chose to do that job, they could've done something else. They know the risks, its all drilled into you time and time again. You're brainwashed into believing it is the right thing to do and you're fighting for your country.
Aye, I know it's voluntary but your right, there is a brainwash element to it. I know they don't all get blown to smithereens, but it's a risk personally I would not take. What really disgusts me is these snazzy ads they put out all day long on channels watched by young teenagers. That I find disgusting. Then in places like America when someone shoots up a ****ing school it's a rock musicians fault! The hypocrisy is endless! Don't take that puff, talk to Frank instead, but come to Afghanistan!

[WOMBAI]

if they want to join the army then it's their fault if they get blown up tbh
kinda stupid, not brave.

Stupid little girl - understand what the hell you are talking about before making comments like that. Go and tell that to the parents of all those brave young soldiers we have lost!

[arista]

if they want to join the army then it's their fault if they get blown up tbh
kinda stupid, not brave.



No its New Labour's Fault 100%
as they have no jobs but the Army in many places.


12 years of Stinking New Labour
a Warmonger Criminal Blair
and now One Eyed Scvottish Brown.

[Niamh.]

Stupid little girl - understand what the hell you are talking about before making comments like that. Go and tell that to the parents of all those brave young soldiers we have lost!

don't call her stupid, she's as entitled to her opinion as you are!

[Stu]

Stupid little girl - understand what the hell you are talking about before making comments like that. Go and tell that to the parents of all those brave young soldiers we have lost!
Don't call her stupid. I believe she is dead right. At the end of the day if they did not join the army, they would not be face down in the ****ing sand. Rough truth, but a truth nonetheless. Unless you want to dispute that very simple fact.

[Tom]

Stupid little girl - understand what the hell you are talking about before making comments like that. Go and tell that to the parents of all those brave young soldiers we have lost!

Its not their families that make the decision, and I'm sure many of the families tried to talk them out of it.

Soldiers know the risks, there isn't an element of bravery imo. Whilst I appreciate what they do (we all do no matter what our opinion), I think its over blown a hell of a lot and people need to take a step back rather than seeing them as heroes.

[Stu]

Whilst I appreciate what they do (we all do no matter what our opinion), I think its over blown a hell of a lot and people need to take a step back rather than seeing them as heroes.
Nail meet head.

[WOMBAI]

Don't call her stupid. I believe she is dead right. At the end of the day if they did not join the army, they would not be face down in the ****ing sand. Rough truth, but a truth nonetheless. Unless you want to dispute that very simple fact.

She is stupid! Stupid and ignorant! She wouldn't be saying that if one of those soldiers was a family member of hers. It is insulting the memory of those that have died! Those still out there should be removed now - they have done their bit and because none of you are worth fighting for with attitudes like that!

[Stephanie]

She is stupid! Stupid and ignorant! She wouldn't be saying that if one of those soldiers was a family member of hers.
actually i would, seeing as it's stupid regardless of who it is.

[NettoSuperstar!]

WAR! what is it good for? lol

I was going to say...they do go to hell its called war...but Stu kinda beat me

[WOMBAI]

actually i would, seeing as it's stupid regardless of who it is.

Such comments expose the truly stupid!

[Niamh.]

She is stupid! Stupid and ignorant! She wouldn't be saying that if one of those soldiers was a family member of hers. It is insulting the memory of those that have died! Those still out there should be removed now - they have done their bit and because none of you are worth fighting for with attitudes like that!

She's stupid cos she doesn't have the same opinion as you??? Personally I think you're the one coming across as ignorant calling a young teenager stupid!!

[Stephanie]

pmsl.

[Tom4784]

She is stupid! Stupid and ignorant!

Oh Mr Pot when will you learn? Leave the kettle alone.

[Stu]

She wouldn't be saying that if one of those soldiers was a family member of hers
Obviously not because there would be emotional investment of another kind. What about the soldiers themselves? A young man, aged 22, joins the army, get's sent to war and get's the **** blown out of him. And that's not stupid or ignorant or unfair or anything like that to the mother and father that raised him?

And how dare you after weeks of prancing around with some respect the opinion of others, holier than thou attitude with your eight hundred or so run of ****ing ludicrous posts call somebody else stupid and ignorant for not believing what you believe?

I love how what you are trying to argue is so incompatible with your custom title status under your name. Life is for living? Indeed.

There is a whole host of people to blame, from the state of world affairs right down to the Government BUT if they did not join the army, they would not be lying face down in the sand with a spine riddled with ****ing bullets. Utter fact, to quote Arista.

[NettoSuperstar!]

lol@utter fact

[WOMBAI]

She's stupid cos she doesn't have the same opinion as you??? Personally I think you're the one coming across as ignorant calling a young teenager stupid!!

Well pardon me for calling a stupid girl stupid - because that is what she is making nasty comments like that! God what planet do you all live on. Our brave young men and women are dying out there for Christ's sake - it is not a game! Shame on you all for basically 'taking the piss' out of them for doing so!

[Tom4784]

Such comments expose the truly stupid!

Oh Wombat quit while you're failing. You're the only ignorant one here.

The line between Bravery and stupidity is thin and blurry, Soldiers know what they are letting themselves in for, it's almost cruel to put their families through what they do. It takes balls to do what they do but is it clever? No.

[Crimson Dynamo]

:conf:

If they know Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, they will go to heaven.

all have sinned. nothing we can do in this life can change this apart from the blood of Christ.

[Niamh.]

Well pardon me for calling a stupid girl stupid - because that is what she is making nasty comments like that! God what planet do you all live on. Our brave young men and women are dying out there for Christ's sake - it is not a game! Shame on you all for basically 'taking the piss' out of them for doing so!

Well, for a start I'm Irish so they're not "my" brave young men at all. and secondly she asked a question which was interesting and clever if you ask me, The bible says it's a sin to kill so if you believe in the bible shouldn't soldiers go to hell???

and last but not least I don't make a habit of telling kids they're stupid for not agreeing with my opinions!!

[WOMBAI]

Oh Wombat quit while you're failing. You're the only ignorant one here.

The line between Bravery and stupidity is thin and blurry, Soldiers know what they are letting themselves in for, it's almost cruel to put their families through what they do. It takes balls to do what they do but is it clever? No.

Not when they are 18 they don't! But then again as most of the posters on here are that age and younger - you have no understanding of that!

[Stu]

Well pardon me for calling a stupid girl stupid - because that is what she is making nasty comments like that! God what planet do you all live on. Our brave young men and women are dying out there for Christ's sake - it is not a game! Shame on you all for basically 'taking the piss' out of them for doing so!
Planet Rationality. Your not welcome.

Again, they volunteered, voluntarily, to join the army. Death being an outstanding risk of such a futile endeavor.

What's so brave about being in a coffin?

Not when they are 18 they don't! But then again as most of the posters on here are that age and younger - you have no understanding of that!
More ageism from WOMBAI. So eighteen year old's who join the army ... death never crosses there minds? Your the one bigging them up. Give their intelligence more credit than that!

[WOMBAI]

Well, for a start I'm Irish so they're not "my" brave young men at all. and secondly she asked a question which was interesting and clever if you ask me, The bible says it's a sin to kill so if you believe in the bible shouldn't soldiers go to hell???

and last but not least I don't make a habit of telling kids they're stupid for not agreeing with my opinions!!

Say that when it is your son or daughter!

[WOMBAI]

Planet Rationality. Your not welcome.

Again, they volunteered, voluntarily, to join the army. Death being an outstanding risk of such a futile endeavor.

What's so brave about being in a coffin?


Because if they weren't - you might be!

[Niamh.]

Say that when it is your son or daughter!

When it's my son or daughter what?

[Stu]

Say that when it is your son or daughter!
If I had a son I would never support his decision to join the army and would raise him a little better than that. Obviously if he died I would feel sad. So you can stop using that emotional predator of an argument.

And as a son myself, I love my mother and father. I would never cause them the grief of shipping myself to the Middle East.

Because if they weren't - you might be!
But they do join the army. Just because they do does not mean I have to consider them brave. Fine line between stupidity and bravery. Which is why I said way back when let the idiots embark on their glorified suicide trip.

[WOMBAI]

Planet Rationality. Your not welcome.

Again, they volunteered, voluntarily, to join the army. Death being an outstanding risk of such a futile endeavor.

What's so brave about being in a coffin?


More ageism from WOMBAI. So eighteen year old's who join the army ... death never crosses there minds? Your the one bigging them up. Give their intelligence more credit than that!

Come back to me on that one in about 15/20 years time - you might surprise yourself!

[Tom]

Not when they are 18 they don't! But then again as most of the posters on here are that age and younger - you have no understanding of that!

Speaking as a 20 year old who has been through the recruitment process- it is drilled into you time and time again, a lot of people do think about it although many have the 'it won't happen to me' attitude.

Its an eye opener. You should try it, it will change your entire perspective on the armed forces.

[WOMBAI]

If I had a son I would never support his decision to join the army and would raise him a little better than that. Obviously if he died I would feel sad. So you can stop using that emotional predator of an argument.

And as a son myself, I love my mother and father. I would never cause them the grief of shipping myself to the Middle East.


Again the ignorance of youth! Raise him better than what - not just thinking of his own safety! This country would be nothing without its military! Of course no son of yours will have a mind of his own! You have a lot to learn!

[Stu]

Come back to me on that one in about 15/20 years time - you might surprise yourself!
I doubt it. At the young, immature, naive and oh so tender age of nineteen right now I have a firm grasp on the fact that, believe it or not, getting shot might just kill me.

Again the ignorance of youth! Raise him better than what - not just thinking of his own safety! This country would be nothing without its military! Of course no son of yours will have a mind of his own! You have a lot to learn!
And the military is not going anywhere. Like I said repeatedly, the idiots of society will always be there to sign up so my son wont have to. Let them fight the war.

No son of mine will have a mind of his own? Golly, your right! I should just let him watch those ubercool recruitment adverts that air in between the toy commercials!

[Tom4784]

Oh Wombat I think I'm just gonna go easy on you now, this is just too embarrasing to watch. Stu calls you out on your ageism and you just serve up more! :laugh:

[Niamh.]

Again the ignorance of youth! Raise him better than what - not just thinking of his own safety! This country would be nothing without its military! Of course no son of yours will have a mind of his own! You have a lot to learn!

excuse me but I'm 31 with kids and I think the same, so don't say just because he's young you must be right and he must be wrong!!

[WOMBAI]

When it's my son or daughter what?

That gets killed because they wanted to join the forces and make a useful contribution!

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think they should say that soldiers have to be 30 or over and see how that makes a difference to combat around the world... (and that goes for suicide bombers too)

[Niamh.]

That gets killed because they wanted to join the forces and make a useful contribution!

Ireland is neutral and my kids are Irish

[WOMBAI]

Oh Wombat I think I'm just gonna go easy on you now, this is just too embarrasing to watch. Stu calls you out on your ageism and you just serve up more! :laugh:

You lot are the embarrassing ones - for not having more respect for those that have died!

[Patrick]

What exactly do you mean by that question? Surely you can't think there is any reason for our soldiers to go to hell?

Well anyone who has ever killed a human life WILL and Deserves to go to Hell.
Why should these Soliders be any diffrent?

[Stephanie]

Well anyone who has ever killed a human life WILL and Deserves to go to Hell.
Why should these Soliders be any diffrent?
get ready to be called stupid and ignorant

[WOMBAI]

Well anyone who has ever killed a human life WILL and Deserves to go to Hell.
Why should these Soliders be any diffrent?

Because they are braver than most on here could ever dream of being!

[Stu]

You lot are the embarrassing ones - for not having more respect for those that have died!
And I find you abhorrent for not having respect for the sanctity of human life. That and other things. Either way, your nail in the coffin came long ago in this thread. I think I am just going to join the rest of the immature, ignorant idiots right now and sit back and laugh at the ****ing mess that is your TiBB posting career.

[Tom]

You lot are the embarrassing ones - for not having more respect for those that have died!

As I said a few posts back, we're all grateful for what they do, but their bravery etc is blown out of proportion

[Tom4784]

Oh Wombat, you're as receptive as a brick wall covered in sh*t. Don't bother replying to the troll, he's basically doing the forum equivelent of shoving his fingers in his ears and going 'lalalalalala' loudly.

Wombat when you can prove Niamh' Tom's or Stu's points wrong that's when you can be holier then thou with everyone. So far you've just been saying the same thing over and over.

[Stu]

Oh Wombat, you're as receptive as a brick wall covered in sh*t. Don't bother replying to the troll, he's basically doing the forum equivelent of shoving his fingers in his ears and going 'lalalalalala' loudly.

Wombat when you can prove Niamh' Tom's or Stu's points wrong that's when you can be holier then thou wqith everyone. So far you've just been saying the same thing over and over.
And that point, for the sake of drilling it all home, is that soldiers die. Therefore, joining the military takes some amount of stupidity if you are going to willingly take up the risk of denying your friends, family and self your life. However, the military won't be lost because stupid people will always be there to join it.

It's Darwinism in action. Smart people of the world join hands and stay at home. Your parents don't want you dead.

[Patrick]

Because they are braver than most on here could ever dream of being!

Still no reason to go to Heaven a place full of GOOD people, When they`ve killed so many.

Its their own fault for getting involved if they had choosed to have a diffrent life then they would of went to Heaven.

Their ****ed now, the damaged has been done and they`ll be in Hell no matter who thinks their Brave

[WOMBAI]

And I find you abhorrent for not having respect for the sanctity of human life. That and other things. Either way, your nail in the coffin came long ago in this thread. I think I am just going to join the rest of the immature, ignorant idiots right now and sit back and laugh at the ****ing mess that is your TiBB posting career.

Oh grow up - how many of you attacking me - 3 or 4 mainly kids - big deal. So bothered by that! The attitudes of some of you on here stink - your opinions about me matter not one little bit to me! :joker: And Stu - stop taking yourself so seriously - there are a lot on here - mainly the older more sensible ones - that see you for the arrogant, argumentative, up your own arse little twat you are.

[Niamh.]

Oh grow up - how many of you attacking me - 3 or 4 mainly kids - big deal. So bothered by that! The attitudes of some of you on here stink - your opinions about me matter not one little bit to me! :joker: And Stu - stop taking yourself so seriously - there are a lot on here - mainly the older more sensible ones - that see you for the arrogant, argumentative, up your own arse little twat you are.

Attacking you???? You're the one calling children stupid!!!

[Stu]

Oh grow up
mainly kids - big deal.
mainly the older more sensible ones.
:wink:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Oh grow up - how many of you attacking me - 3 or 4 mainly kids - big deal. So bothered by that! The attitudes of some of you on here stink - your opinions about me matter not one little bit to me! :joker: And Stu - stop taking yourself so seriously - there are a lot on here - mainly the older more sensible ones - that see you for the arrogant, argumentative, up your own arse little twat you are.





i never said twat

[Stu]

If LeatherTrumpet and WOMBAI both hate my posts, I must be doing something right. What a proud twat I am!

[Niamh.]

If LeatherTrumpet and WOMBAI both hate my posts, I must be doing something right. What a proud twat I am!

I love your posts Stu!!

[Tom4784]

Oh grow up - how many of you attacking me - 3 or 4 mainly kids - big deal. So bothered by that! The attitudes of some of you on here stink - your opinions about me matter not one little bit to me! :joker: And Stu - stop taking yourself so seriously - there are a lot on here - mainly the older more sensible ones - that see you for the arrogant, argumentative, up your own arse little twat you are.

Hypocrisy's a bitch ain't it?

[setanta]

It's an interesting question you've posed though Stephanie. I wonder if there's a special place reserved for the ignorant or the ones who were deceived into fighting for a cause that they believed was just? Is there any cause that's worth killing for on such a huge scale in the first place? Than there's the difference between political, territorial or religious wars. You've really opened up a good thread. Well done.

[Tom4784]

If LeatherTrumpet and WOMBAI both hate my posts, I must be doing something right. What a proud twat I am!

*insert Stu's clapping Gif here*

[Crimson Dynamo]

If LeatherTrumpet and WOMBAI both hate my posts, I must be doing something right. What a proud twat I am!

mine was a joke you drongo

[Stu]

I love your posts Stu!!
Then you are a young punk. Welcome to the club! :wink:

Hypocrisy is a bitch.

[Tom4784]

I agree with Setanta, quite an interesting thread. Well done Steph.

[Niamh.]

Then you are a young punk. Welcome to the club! :wink:

Hypocrisy is a bitch.

lol :joker:

[Stu]

mine was a joke you drongo
I kind of guessed that, s'cool :wink:. I disagree with some of your views but I don't really 'hate' you on a personal level. WOMBAI on the other hand...

...wait, what's a drongo :confused:.

[Niamh.]

It's an interesting question you've posed though Stephanie. I wonder if there's a special place reserved for the ignorant or the ones who were deceived into fighting for a cause that they believed was just? Is there any cause that's worth killing for on such a huge scale in the first place? Than there's the difference between political, territorial or religious wars. You've really opened up a good thread. Well done.

this^^^^^

[WOMBAI]

Attacking you???? You're the one calling children stupid!!!

Because she ridiculed the deaths of those young soldiers. I have had a son out there - who thankfully came home - and who has now left the forces - but I know what it is like to worry about having a child out there. Not all his friends did come home. Although my son did not fight on the front line as he was a communications engineer - he was still at risk. The whole experience gave me a great deal of respect for those that died and for those that risk their lives.

Of course people have a right to an opinion - but they should be mindful when that subject is something they don't really know much about and should be more tactful about expressing such potentially offensive opinions.

Do they have any understanding of the hurt and upset they could cause to someone on here who might have actually lost a son, daughter, mother, father etc.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I kind of guessed that, s'cool :wink:. I disagree with some of your views but I don't really 'hate' you on a personal level. WOMBAI on the other hand...

...wait, what's a drongo :confused:.

no idea!

[arista]

if they want to join the army then it's their fault if they get blown up tbh
kinda stupid, not brave.



They do not want to Join.
But due to this New Labour Depression
in some area's that is the only way of getting out of the Rut.

[Stu]

Those pots and kettles are out in full force today. In fact, I think I hear one boiling over at the should TiBB change it's name thread.

[Niamh.]

Because she ridiculed the deaths of those young soldiers. I have had a son out there - who thankfully came home - and who has now left the forces - but I know what it is like to worry about having a child out there. Not all his friends did come home. Although my son did not fight on the front line as he was a communications engineer - he was still at risk. The whole experience gave me a great deal of respect for those that died and for those that risk their lives.

Of course people have a right to an opinion - but they should be mindful when that subject is something they don't really know much about and should be more tactful about expressing such potentially offensive opinions.

Do they have any understanding of the hurt and upset they could cause to someone on here who might have actually lost a son, daughter, mother, father etc.

I'm sure that must have been awful for you as a parent. But people are still entitled to have there opinions on it. I'm sure there are quite a few of these topics posted that have a more personal meaning to some people, some times.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Those pots and kettles are out in full force today. In fact, I think I hear one boiling over at the should TiBB change it's name thread.

that pot is a racist

[WOMBAI]

that pot is a racist

You would know!

[Stu]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/kingofthering/orson-clapping.gif
Nice.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You would know!

why?

[WOMBAI]

why?

You called me racist. But you have expressed stronger views on that one than me!

[Shaun]

No. Because it doesn't exist :)

[setanta]

No. Because it doesn't exist :)

Well then just think about it in terms of good and evil if you're uncomfortable with the whole religious connotation associated with hell.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You called me racist. But you have expressed stronger views on that one than me!

huh:conf:

i aint called no one a racist. do you have the correct animal skinned wind instrument?

[Crimson Dynamo]

No. Because it doesn't exist :)


if i could play the noise from QI


I would

[Stu]

huh:conf:

i aint called no one a racist. do you have the correct animal skinned wind instrument?
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/kingofthering/orson-clapping.gif

[MissKittyFantastico]

Well if you take what the Bible says literally, then yes they are.

Taking a life is taking a life. No exceptions to the rule.

However there is the argument that if you repent for your sins then God will absolve you and still accept you into Heaven. I guess it all depends on your perspective and what you believe in.

[Stu]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y237/kingofthering/hell-59071.jpg

[WOMBAI]

huh:conf:

i aint called no one a racist. do you have the correct animal skinned wind instrument?

Maybe it's the way you express yourself! :conf:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Maybe it's the way you express yourself! :conf:

but i am black, do you mean against Muslims?

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Stu
Those pots and kettles are out in full force today. In fact, I think I hear one boiling over at the should TiBB change it's name thread.

"that pot is a racist"

Sounded like I was the pot! Correct me if I am wrong!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Stu
Those pots and kettles are out in full force today. In fact, I think I hear one boiling over at the should TiBB change it's name thread.

"that pot is a racist"

Sounded like I was the pot! Correct me if I am wrong!

since the pot called the kettle black I just meant that in the saying the pot (in this pc world) should be branded a racist.

lol i did not mean you!

[Stacey.]

no, because theyve been good people...
Fighting for their country,, i dont believe in heaven and hell though :Dlolage!

[WOMBAI]

since the pot called the kettle black I just meant that in the saying the pot (in this pc world) should be branded a racist.

lol i did not mean you!

Sorry, my mistake!

[WOMBAI]

no, because theyve been good people...
Fighting for their country,, i dont believe in heaven and hell though :Dlolage!

Bless you - I will never say anything horrid about J&E again!:dance:

[Crimson Dynamo]

no, because theyve been good people...
Fighting for their country,, i dont believe in heaven and hell though :Dlolage!

have you ever been to Croydon?

[arista]

no, because theyve been good people...
Fighting for their country,, i dont believe in heaven and hell though :Dlolage!



Fighting For Their Country?


Iraq Ain't part of 9/11
And it is not pat of any USA or UK Empire.


They are being put into a Mess made by Bush/Blair /One Eyed Scottish Brown
Utter Fact.

[Stu]

have you ever been to Croydon?
Lovely little spot. Plenty of err ... character.

[Scarlett.]

If you believe in religeon, then no, wars are neccesary to protect people

[Stu]

I don't quiet know where to start with that one...

[Spike]

Theres no such thing as hell so no
Only silly people think they would

[Scarlett.]

I don't quiet know where to start with that one...
What do you mean? It's basically the same as self protection, I was under impression that murdering in cold blood for no good reason was a sin

[Stu]

What do you mean? It's basically the same as self protection, I was under impression that murdering in cold blood for no good reason was a sin
:shocked:

Followed by...

:joker:

War isn't as simple as that, and it's almost never for straightforward self protection. Again, the commandment states 'Thou Shalt Not Kill', I didn't know it had a footnote.

[WOMBAI]

:shocked:

Followed by...

:joker:

War isn't as simple as that, and it's almost never for straightforward self protection. Again, the commandment states 'Thou Shalt Not Kill', I didn't know it had a footnote.

So I take it, in your book, that applies to all the soldiers that fought and died in WWs 1&2 as well!

[Scarlett.]

:shocked:

Followed by...

:joker:

War isn't as simple as that, and it's almost never for straightforward self protection. Again, the commandment states 'Thou Shalt Not Kill', I didn't know it had a footnote.
For the soldiers it is, shoot, or get shot

[Stu]

So I take it, in your book, that applies to all the soldiers that fought and died in WWs 1&2 as well!
If your writing my book for me, sure, go on ahead...

For the soldiers it is, shoot, or get shot
Yeah but they did not go out there for a game of Counter Strike. It's all more politically complicated than that, and I doubt rel -

Okay, I just cant even argue this. I can feel my brain crying out for help :laugh2:.

[WOMBAI]

For the soldiers it is, shoot, or get shot

Exactly! :thumbs:

[Stu]

I imagine in religious terms the correct answer would be to not even place yourself in that situation in the first place and practice your peace, thereby removing the need for such a ludicrous, dangerous scenario.

Seriously, it's not ****ing paintball.

[WOMBAI]

And it's not paintball to realise that if they didn't - you may have to! So, in a way, by doing so - they help save your neck!

[Stu]

religious terms
Just in case you missed it the first time. I'm talking strictly religious terms here, not socio political terms - because that's the angle Chewy was approaching it from before you dived in pheromone first.

I imagine Jesus rather I stay at home and keep the peace.

[Scarlett.]

Just in case you missed it the first time. I'm talking strictly religious terms here, not socio political terms - because that's the angle Chewy was approaching it from before you dived in pheromone first.

I imagine Jesus rather I stay at home and keep the peace.
I'm sure war is mentioned in the bible, the old testament at least, but from my catholic upbringing, war was never mentioned as going against our religeon

[Stu]

I'm sure war is mentioned in the bible, the old testament at least, but from my catholic upbringing, war was never mentioned as going against our religeon
War is mentioned many different times. But obviously war back then was very different to war now. It's such a colored and complicated issue. I just think things like your Catholic upbringing is not exactly a definite authority on such a colored issue. It's certainly not as black and white as 'Shoot to defend = Good'.

[WOMBAI]

It is also not so black and white as to say - "Though Shalt Not Kill"! 'Shoot to defend therefore = bad'.

[Stu]

It is also not so black and white as to say - "Though Shalt Not Kill"! 'Shoot to defend therefore = bad'.
Again, I AM ARGUING THIS WITHIN A RELIGIOUS CONTEXT.

Repeat ad nausea.

[Lewis.]

interesting idea?

[Enid]

When we die, we rot. There is no heaven and hell, and there is no god. I know, that may be a daunting thought but more people need to come to this realisation.

[Iceman]

When we die, we rot. There is no heaven and hell, and there is no god. I know, that may be a daunting thought but more people need to come to this realisation.

:shocked::shocked:No Pearly gates???:shocked::shocked::shocked:

:bawling: yeah all these old people in churches stinking up the place.....get them like a class to go to instead...

[Stu]

For **** sake. I was looking forward to rocking out with Bon Scott and Layne Staley in Hell, surfing on a lake of fire and watching New Kids On The Block being tortured by Satan's cock. Now your telling me that will never happen?

[Enid]

Yeah, I'm sorry bub. We'd have had much fun in hell.

[Stu]

The devil has the best tunes :sad:.

[Enid]

But heaven is a half-pipe...

What a ****ing awful song, hahah.

[Iceman]

But heaven is a half-pipe...

What a ****ing awful song, hahah.

LOL that was such a cheesey crap song......catchy though:joker:

[Enid]

LOL that was such a cheesey crap song......catchy though:joker:
I remember at school, coming home from Alton Towers on the coach, that song came up on the radio and EVERYONE started singing a long to it. I wanted to die right there and then.

[Iceman]

I remember at school, coming home from Alton Towers on the coach, that song came up on the radio and EVERYONE started singing a long to it. I wanted to die right there and then.

Was that before or after you were humming it in your head :P hehe

[Enid]

Was that before or after you were humming it in your head :P hehe
Oh hell no. At that point, I plugged in my Sony walkman and listened to some Christian Death.

[Alf]

Ireland is neutral and my kids are Irish
they would have been a nazi german had people not have volunteered to fight in the war and defend whats their's.

or even more likely, you wouldn't even exist.

[Stu]

We defended what was ours already against the biggest cultural threat our nation ever faced, the British empire.

[sooty]

if they want to join the army then it's their fault if they get blown up tbh
kinda stupid, not brave.


Those stupid slodiers you just called would one day save your life when this country was attacked.

I agree what 100% WOMBAI said.

[Enid]

She is just ignorant, sooty.

[Stephanie]

:rolleyes:

[sooty]

She is just ignorant, sooty.


I respect your opinion, Enid.

[lily.]

My opinion is as follows:

There is no heaven.
There is no hell.
There is no god.
Religion is fiction.
Religion is at the root of many wars.
The current war we are fighting is wrong on so many levels. It's based on lies and hidden agendas.

However, I have nothing but respect for soldiers. Yes, they did know what they were signing up for and yes, they do know the risks going in, but it doesn't alter the fact that they are out there doing a job that I personally would not do, nor would I want my children to do.

So I respect them for that and I think calling them 'stupid' is a really ***** thing to do.

[MrGaryy]

Well thank god some one said it. It's a cliche but I genuinely religonis the root of [most] evil.

[lily.]

You can pretty much always count on me to say what I think... no matter how popular or unpopular it may be.

[Jords]

I dont believe in hell, I believe in God sort of, but Im not religious.

[WOMBAI]

My opinion is as follows:

There is no heaven.
There is no hell.
There is no god.
Religion is fiction.
Religion is at the root of many wars.
The current war we are fighting is wrong on so many levels. It's based on lies and hidden agendas.

However, I have nothing but respect for soldiers. Yes, they did know what they were signing up for and yes, they do know the risks going in, but it doesn't alter the fact that they are out there doing a job that I personally would not do, nor would I want my children to do.

So I respect them for that and I think calling them 'stupid' is a really ***** thing to do.

:thumbs:

[WOMBAI]

Those stupid slodiers you just called would one day save your life when this country was attacked.

I agree what 100% WOMBAI said.

Thanks sooty! :thumbs:

[WOMBAI]

I kind of guessed that, s'cool :wink:. I disagree with some of your views but I don't really 'hate' you on a personal level. WOMBAI on the other hand...

...wait, what's a drongo :confused:.

Ah he hates me - what shall I do?

[WOMBAI]

I kind of guessed that, s'cool :wink:. I disagree with some of your views but I don't really 'hate' you on a personal level. WOMBAI on the other hand...

...wait, what's a drongo :confused:.

Ah he hates me - what shall I do? :joker:

[lime]

they would have been a nazi german had people not have volunteered to fight in the war and defend whats their's.

or even more likely, you wouldn't even exist.

What ????
Time to go back to the history books mate.The Nazis were never going to illegally occupy Ireland.The Brits were doing a good job of that.In fact if you do some research you will find that the some Irish helped the germans as they seen WW1 as their only chance of freedoom.:conf:
I'm not even european and I know this

[Wildcat!]

good subjet Steph!
Anyways, for those talking about heave doesnt exist, there is no god, etc.... I think it goes without saying, that this subject would apply to those who do believe in god, and heaven and hell. Obvious right? ITs like If you were filling out a questionnare, this is where you would pick N/A (not applicable, since I dont believe in heaven and hell). But we get it, you want to reiterate, how, you dont believe in god, good for you.

Anyways, as for the question, Imo, it depends on your cause. I think most people who believe in a religion, know whats right and whats wrong. If you believe in the cause youre fighting for, and that you are doing some good, I think its perfectly fine to go to war.

As for the people calling them stupid, another thing I dont agree with. There are a lot of dangerous professions, where you can get killed, Policemen, Fire fighters, even certain factory workers. Does that make them stupid too? I dont agree at all with that.
And by the way, do you know what the odds are of a british soldier, to die, before they retire? Very, very slim, so its not as risky for them, as it is for say the iraqi soldier. Of all the 100's of 1000s of troups sent in war in the middle east, you hear mumbers like 100's who are dead. Its not even 1%, so, not that deadly really, and they make a damn good amount of money.

[M X]

My cousin who I think of as a brother, is going to Afghan soon. And besides, I don't believe in heaven or hell tbh.

[WOMBAI]

Don't call her stupid. I believe she is dead right. At the end of the day if they did not join the army, they would not be face down in the ****ing sand. Rough truth, but a truth nonetheless. Unless you want to dispute that very simple fact.

If she is old enough to make such a thread and make the comments that she made - then she is old enough to take the heat! She can't have it both ways!

[InOne]

Well first off with the Heaven and Hell bit. Hell does not exist, thinking a Solider is either going to Heaven or Hell is not really a good way of looking at it.

Second of all, it was Stupid of Steph to say those things. I really would not say that in kinda stuff in Public, alot of people woyld not be very happy!!! And even if the soilders and being mislead and stuff, they are still out their fighting!! If you can't even support your own countries soliders it's not good is it!! My friend writes to Soliders and stuff, it would be alot worse being out there thinking your country is not behind you when you're deep in the Middle East. Yes people have their opinions, but calling Soliders 'stupid' is pretty ridiculous, yes they might be naive and that, but if they don't fight for the country, who will?

[Stu]

The naive people will. I'm sorry, but I'm not changing my views. Any job you volunteer for that carries the risk of possible death is a stupid job to volunteer for. Simple as, IMO.

That's not a reflection on soldiers being bad people. I don't know them all personally thus such judgments would be misguided, but do I consider it stupid to join the army? You bet.

[InOne]

The stupid people will. I'm sorry, but I'm not changing my views. Any job you volunteer for that carries the risk of possible death is a stupid job to volunteer for. Simple as, IMO.

I still would support them. An army is needed.

[setanta]

The naive people will. I'm sorry, but I'm not changing my views. Any job you volunteer for that carries the risk of possible death is a stupid job to volunteer for. Simple as, IMO.

That's not a reflection on soldiers being bad people. I don't know them all personally thus such judgments would be misguided, but do I consider it stupid to join the army? You bet.

Ah Stu now come on, you can't be saying that about people. Some people are not in the same position financially, politically or intellectually to have the same thoughts concerning the army that you maintain so it's a little harsh to be calling them stupid because they risk getting killed. In any case, some would argue that there's an honour in risking your life for your country.

[Stu]

Ah Stu now come on, you can't be saying that about people. Some people are not in the same position financially, politically or intellectually to have the same thoughts concerning the army that you maintain so it's a little harsh to be calling them stupid because they risk getting killed. In any case, some would argue that there's an honour in risking your life for your country.
They are naive. Little less harsh maybe. The situation is certainly stupid. The job is certainly stupid. I can respect the fact that some don't have much choice. That's the tragedy of the army, really. Look at the American army, and certainly some of the British. It's a lot of the poorest of society, who have been treated the worst by the government, being brainwashed by these pathetic ads to take up arms and fight for the rich in a cause they don't understand. Still, how much intellect does it take to realize that war = possible death?

As for honor in risking your life for your country, that's a matter of personal opinion I suppose but hardcore patriotism always baffled me. Put your family first. Not the country you were born in.

[setanta]

They are naive. Little less harsh maybe. The situation is certainly stupid. The job is certainly stupid. I can respect the fact that some don't have much choice. That's the tragedy of the army, really. Look at the American army, and certainly some of the British. It's a lot of the poorest of society, who have been treated the worst by the government, being brainwashed by these pathetic ads to take up arms and fight for the rich in a cause they don't understand. Still, how much intellect does it take to realize that war = possible death?

As for honor in risking your life for your country, that's a matter of personal opinion I suppose but hardcore patriotism always baffled me. Put your family first. Not the country you were born in.

But in the case of nations with a long history of conflict you're putting your family first by enlisting as it maintains the honour of your clan, with grandparents or fathers having fought the good fight already, you know? It's a tribal duty really as well as a patriotic one.

Ireland has never had that kinda tradition so we naturally look very cautiously and possibly cynically on any conflicts that arise in world affairs. Some people just don't have that luxury.

But yeah, it's sad to see how people are exploited in this day and age but sure that's the way of the world unfortunately.

[Stu]

But in the case of nations with a long history of conflict you're putting your family first by enlisting as it maintains the honour of your clan, with grandparents or fathers having fought the good fight already, you know? It's a tribal duty really as well as a patriotic one.

Ireland has never had that kinda tradition so we naturally look very cautiously and possibly cynically on any conflicts that arise in world affairs. Some people just don't have that luxury.

But yeah, it's sad to see how people are exploited in this day and age but sure that's the way of the world unfortunately.
Good point, but I think we should be past the tribal stages of humanity by now, and more concerned about honoring our families by keeping ourselves alive for them.

And yeah, we have an odd ol' way of looking at world conflicts. Like an old man in a rocking chair watching a horse race, sometimes!

[Captain.Remy]

good subjet Steph!
Anyways, for those talking about heave doesnt exist, there is no god, etc.... I think it goes without saying, that this subject would apply to those who do believe in god, and heaven and hell. Obvious right? ITs like If you were filling out a questionnare, this is where you would pick N/A (not applicable, since I dont believe in heaven and hell). But we get it, you want to reiterate, how, you dont believe in god, good for you.

Anyways, as for the question, Imo, it depends on your cause. I think most people who believe in a religion, know whats right and whats wrong. If you believe in the cause youre fighting for, and that you are doing some good, I think its perfectly fine to go to war.

As for the people calling them stupid, another thing I dont agree with. There are a lot of dangerous professions, where you can get killed, Policemen, Fire fighters, even certain factory workers. Does that make them stupid too? I dont agree at all with that.
And by the way, do you know what the odds are of a british soldier, to die, before they retire? Very, very slim, so its not as risky for them, as it is for say the iraqi soldier. Of all the 100's of 1000s of troups sent in war in the middle east, you hear mumbers like 100's who are dead. Its not even 1%, so, not that deadly really, and they make a damn good amount of money.

Perfect speech, I don't need to add anything, I couldn't agree more.

It's funny we don't practice the same religion yet we have the same view on this topic, whoever God is to the both of us.

[Tom]

good subjet Steph!
Anyways, for those talking about heave doesnt exist, there is no god, etc.... I think it goes without saying, that this subject would apply to those who do believe in god, and heaven and hell. Obvious right? ITs like If you were filling out a questionnare, this is where you would pick N/A (not applicable, since I dont believe in heaven and hell). But we get it, you want to reiterate, how, you dont believe in god, good for you.

Anyways, as for the question, Imo, it depends on your cause. I think most people who believe in a religion, know whats right and whats wrong. If you believe in the cause youre fighting for, and that you are doing some good, I think its perfectly fine to go to war.

As for the people calling them stupid, another thing I dont agree with. There are a lot of dangerous professions, where you can get killed, Policemen, Fire fighters, even certain factory workers. Does that make them stupid too? I dont agree at all with that.
And by the way, do you know what the odds are of a british soldier, to die, before they retire? Very, very slim, so its not as risky for them, as it is for say the iraqi soldier. Of all the 100's of 1000s of troups sent in war in the middle east, you hear mumbers like 100's who are dead. Its not even 1%, so, not that deadly really, and they make a damn good amount of money.

The 100th soldier to die since the war began back in 2003 only happened a few weeks ago. Obviously its 100 too many but in the grand scheme of things its a tiny percentage as you say.

[InOne]

Always make the news when a Solider dies, I think it can get abit soppy sometimes really.

[WOMBAI]

Always make the news when a Solider dies, I think it can get abit soppy sometimes really.

It should make the news though, every single time - sign of respect for their sacrifice!

[InOne]

It should make the news though, every single time - sign of respect for their sacrifice!

I suppose, I think it is more the way they report it on the news. Plus that Obama sending in more troops and stuff has been dominating the Headlines. The Taliban said they are going to up their game too, it's not going to end.

[WOMBAI]

I suppose, I think it is more the way they report it on the news. Plus that Obama sending in more troops and stuff has been dominating the Headlines. The Taliban said they are going to up their game too, it's not going to end.

I know - scary stuff! Makes you wonder if a solution can ever be found. Too many people will die - on both sides - for what! Personally - I would rather see the politicians get tooled-up and be forced to fight that fight themselves. How just would that be!

[InOne]

I know - scary stuff! Makes you wonder if a solution can ever be found. Too many people will die - on both sides - for what! Personally - I would rather see the politicians get tooled-up and be forced to fight that fight themselves. How just would that be!

Yeah the war on 'Terror' is ridiculous really. I don't think we're as brutal as the Taliban really.

[Stu]

I know - scary stuff! Makes you wonder if a solution can ever be found. Too many people will die - on both sides - for what! Personally - I would rather see the politicians get tooled-up and be forced to fight that fight themselves. How just would that be!
True.

People are comparing it now to Vietnam. Scary comparison.

[setanta]

Somebody once wrote: 'Hell is the impossibility of reason.' That's what this place feels like. Hell.

[Niamh.]

they would have been a nazi german had people not have volunteered to fight in the war and defend whats their's.

or even more likely, you wouldn't even exist.

????????????????????????

why are you saying this to me???????????????

[Niamh.]

are you saying my kids would have been German if it wasn't for the British army is it??????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, If it wasn't for the british army who tried to take over Ireland is it????? and split the country in two is it???? Is that the British army you're talking about???????????

[InOne]

are you saying my kids would have been German if it wasn't for the British army is it??????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, If it wasn't for the british army who tried to take over Ireland is it????? and split the country in two is it???? Is that the British army you're talking about???????????

Well the Irish supported the Nazi's, as they hated the English.

[Stu]

are you saying my kids would have been German if it wasn't for the British army is it??????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, If it wasn't for the british army who tried to take over Ireland is it????? and split the country in two is it???? Is that the British army you're talking about???????????
I think it is, my dear :hugesmile:.

He may have a point with the spread of Nazism even if Hitler abandoned all Irish invasion plans but it's a pretty douche argument when you consider what the British did to this country for generations.

Well the Irish supported the Nazi's, as they hated the English.
Get your facts right. Small paramilitary groups tried, and failed, to work with the Nazi's. On the other hand, thousands of Irishmen fought alongside the British.

Christ, I can't believe what I am hearing.

[InOne]

I think it is, my dear :hugesmile:.

He may have a point with the spread of Nazism even if Hitler abandoned all Irish invasion plans but it's a pretty douche argument when you consider what the British did to this country for generations.


Get your facts right. Small paramilitary groups tried, and failed, to work with the Nazi's. On the other hand, thousands of Irishmen fought alongside the British.

Christ, I can't believe what I am hearing.

I know not all. But I think that is the point he was trying to make.

[Stu]

I know not all. But I think that is the point he was trying to make.
No it wasn't. The Irish never supported the Third Reich at any point! :joker::joker::joker:

[InOne]

They were netural, but obivously there was hostility towards the British when WW2 broke out, I mean it was only 18 years after Ireland achieved independence.

[Stu]

They were netural, but obivously there was hostility towards the British when WW2 broke out, I mean it was only 18 years after Ireland achieved independence.
Redundant argument. Just because there was hostility towards the British did not mean we were Nazi gangbangers.

We were neutral for our own safety. Churchill tried to get us to join the war in return for the full island and we said ''no thank you'', knowing full well it would destroy us.

Look at what happened when the Luftwaffe bombed Belfast FFS.

[InOne]

But do you admit, some of the more exteme Irish parties such as the IRA may have had a soft spot for Nazism?

[Stu]

But do you admit, some of the more exteme Irish parties such as the IRA may have had a soft spot for Nazism?
I already told you that. Paramilitary groups did try and establish collaboration with the Nazi government. But they were extremist fringe groups and nothing much successful ever actually happened. It's akin to saying Britain supports D'Nazi's because you have a skinhead population over there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army_%E2%80%93_Abwehr_collaborati on_in_World_War_II

[InOne]

Yeah, also found this as well.
http://www.victims.org.uk/nazi.html

But like I said, I didn't mean all.

[Stu]

Mary McAleese is a Nazi sympathizer? Right. I'm sure that website is right up there with Wikipedia for it's lack of bias :joker:.

[InOne]

Mary McAleese is a Nazi sympathizer? Right. I'm sure that website is right up there with Wikipedia for it's lack of bias :joker:.

Probably lol

[Alf]

are you saying my kids would have been German if it wasn't for the British army is it?
yes i am

[setanta]

We'd have been butchered if Churchill had had his way wannashag.

[Alf]

We'd have been butchered if Churchill had had his way wannashag.
it was us that took a stance on the nazi's and it was us that got the yanks to come to join the war

[Stu]

Yeah, god forbid some power hungry bastard tries to start an empire, expand his land and oppress a religious group.

Oh wait...

[setanta]

it was us that took a stance on the nazi's and it was us that got the yanks to come to join the war

You see, you have no idea what you're talking about here.

I'm talking about the events prior to our War of Independence, when Churchill was part of the War Office and wanted to come into Ireland with his army and pulverize us for having the audacity to fight against oppression. Don't start talking about things you know nothing of please.

[Alf]

You see, you have no idea what you're talking about here.

I'm talking about the events prior to our War of Independence, when Churchill was part of the War Office and wanted to come into Ireland with his army and pulverize us for having the audacity to fight against oppression. Don't start talking about things you know nothing of please.
but that has nothing to do with what i was talking about,
i was talking about, if it wasn't for people volunteering for war which people on here have said these people should go to hell, then europe would be a nazi german race of people.

[Stu]

but that has nothing to do with what i was talking about,
i was talking about, if it wasn't for people volunteering for war which people on here have said these people should go to hell, then europe would be a nazi german race of people.
And the counterpoint people were making was that the British were essentially trying to do the same thing to us anyway so the whole ''Britain bailed Ireland out of the war and now you are Irish, so thank us'' thing sounds a little silly.

Simple.

[setanta]

but that has nothing to do with what i was talking about,
i was talking about, if it wasn't for people volunteering for war which people on here have said these people should go to hell, then europe would be a nazi german race of people.

Actually, it has everything to do with it.... with the history and bitterness between our two countries. Your claims that we'd be Nazi if it weren't for the British highlights it even further really.

[Niamh.]

yes i am

I like how you left out the rest of my post!! You have some cheek saying that ye saved us from being taken overwhen ye were the only ones to do that to us!!

[Niamh.]

And the counterpoint people were making was that the British were essentially trying to do the same thing to us anyway so the whole ''Britain bailed Ireland out of the war and now you are Irish, so thank us'' thing sounds a little silly.

Simple.

^^^^^^^^^^^^ this. You put it better than me Stu!!

[Alf]

i was making a point about volunteering for war which you people condemed
you micks are trying to turn this into something else

[Niamh.]

i was making a point about volunteering for war which you people condemed
you micks are trying to turn this into something else

"micks"

[setanta]

i was making a point about volunteering for war which you people condemed
you micks are trying to turn this into something else

Did you actually say that word to us? And you wonder why we reacted so strongly to your arrogant assumption that we'd be Nazi if it weren't for you, which is laced with a huge amount of irony when you consider that your nation oppressed us for hundreds of years. I hate that derogatory word being used by the British towards the Irish and you should choose your words more carefully when you're in our company, particularly when we're discussing things like this. Laughable really.

[Alf]

ok i apologies for saying that, it was uncalled for.
but i dont agree with people calling hero's, including my grandad, idiots
and saying they should go to hell, (and i'm not saying you said that setanta) but people on here have.

[Niamh.]

ok i apologies for saying that, it was uncalled for.
but i dont agree with people calling hero's, including my grandad, idiots
and saying they should go to hell, (and i'm not saying you said that setanta) but people on here have.

I never called anybody an idiot. and if you check back I think you'll find I never said anything about soldiers at all

[Alf]

I never called anybody an idiot. and if you check back I think you'll find I never said anything about soldiers at all
but you did defend stephanie who originally said it

[Niamh.]

but you did defend stephanie who originally said it

I said she shouldn't be called stupid for having her opinion yes, especially since she's just a kid and the person calling her that is an adult. If you dis agree with her there is better ways to express that than name calling

[Stu]

Wannashag your opening a whole other can of worms. We are talking about the war in the middle east. The world has changed. Things were very different back in the days of the Third Reich.

[Iceman]

Yeah agree Stu its a difeerent age we live in now.

Just to add have to say that our Neutral Troops in Chad are doing a great job :rolleyes:

[WOMBAI]

I said she shouldn't be called stupid for having her opinion yes, especially since she's just a kid and the person calling her that is an adult. If you dis agree with her there is better ways to express that than name calling

I only called her stupid - not very strong is it! And besides, as I said previously, if Stephanie is old enough to start such a thread and make the comments she made - she is old enough to take the heat - she can't have it both ways!

She actually is stupid for making such thoughtless, tactless and downright insensitive comments. If she is too young to understand the full implications of what she is saying (which she is) she should avoid such subjects, simple as. And that is not being ageist - that is simply a fact of life. As an adult yourself you must realise that at that age, she did not fully understand what she was saying. We all do and say a lot of stupid things when we are young (I know I did) and we look back and cringe - but at that time we thought we knew what we were talking about. That view comes with age and experience. Not meant in any kind of patronising way - just saying it as it is.

[WOMBAI]

are you saying my kids would have been German if it wasn't for the British army is it??????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, If it wasn't for the british army who tried to take over Ireland is it????? and split the country in two is it???? Is that the British army you're talking about???????????

No offence - but you clearly don't have a very high opinion of British soldiers - which explains your support of Stephanie!

[Niamh.]

I only called her stupid - not very strong is it! And besides, as I said previously, if Stephanie is old enough to start such a thread and make the comments she made - she is old enough to take the heat - she can't have it both ways!

She actually is stupid for making such thoughtless, tactless and downright insensitive comments. If she is too young to understand the full implications of what she is saying (which she is) she should avoid such subjects, simple as. And that is not being ageist - that is simply a fact of life. As an adult yourself you must realise that at that age, she did not fully understand what she was saying. We all do and say a lot of stupid things when we are young (I know I did) and we look back and cringe - but at that time we thought we knew what we were talking about. That view comes with age and experience. Not meant in any kind of patronising way - just saying it as it is.

The Thread itself though was not stupid, it's quite a valid and interesting question if you ask me. And I do still think that calling her stupid was out of order.

[WOMBAI]

A not so pleasant sign of the times - when common sense goes out the window and making a 'good thread' becomes more important than not needlessly offending or upsetting people!

[lime]

A not so pleasant sign of the times - when common sense goes out the window and making a 'good thread' becomes more important than not needlessly offending or upsetting people!

So it's not a good thread when it offends you...but if it's a thread that needlessly offends or upsets anyone else ...well that's ok:shrug:

[WOMBAI]

So it's not a good thread when it offends you...but if it's a thread that needlessly offends or upsets anyone else ...well that's ok:shrug:

Not just me - but anyone who has friends of relatives in Afghan - or, god forbid, anyone who may have lost a loved one out there! Potentially a very sensitive subject!

[lime]

Not just me - but anyone who has friends of relatives in Afghan - or, god forbid, anyone who may have lost a loved one out there! Potentially a very sensitive subject!

I can wholly understand how people would find the subject sensitive ,and as a parent I can not even begin to understand the worry you went through with your own personal experience ......however there are other threads in this folder(serious debate) that's others may find offensive and you have been quite vocal in them.

I am neither black nor muslim ,I am South African (Boer) .Thread titles "ban the Burka??" "now you can't call a black person a chocalate hob nob" will offend some but as it's serious debates then people will voice their opinions and should continue to do so then points made can be debated .

LOL if we weren't to discuss anything sensitive we would all be swapping apple tart recipe's.

[setanta]

I'm more of a rhubarb and custard pie fan myself.

[WOMBAI]

I can wholly understand how people would find the subject sensitive ,and as a parent I can not even begin to understand the worry you went through with your own personal experience ......however there are other threads in this folder(serious debate) that's others may find offensive and you have been quite vocal in them.

I am neither black nor muslim ,I am South African (Boer) .Thread titles "ban the Burka??" "now you can't call a black person a chocalate hob nob" will offend some but as it's serious debates then people will voice their opinions and should continue to do so then points made can be debated .

LOL if we weren't to discuss anything sensitive we would all be swapping apple tart recipe's.

I do understand what you are saying and on the whole agree. Personally I did not make any comments on the 'now you can't call a black person a chocolate hob nob' as always considered that title very inflammatory. But I do feel the 'ban the burka' thread was a reasonable one - based on certain religious practices, not race.

But I think the soldiers one is an exception - as it is insulting people that have died - people who can no longer speak for themselves. People may be understandably offended by comments they may consider racist - but it is not the same as the upset that would be caused to the close relatives of people that have died - whilst supporting their country - when hearing them verbally abused and insulted.

[Niamh.]

Not just me - but anyone who has friends of relatives in Afghan - or, god forbid, anyone who may have lost a loved one out there! Potentially a very sensitive subject!

So it's ok for LT to upset any Muslims, Gypsys, Nigerians etc. but not you because you have a son in the army??? eeeeeeehhhhhhh, ok then.

[Niamh.]

I can wholly understand how people would find the subject sensitive ,and as a parent I can not even begin to understand the worry you went through with your own personal experience ......however there are other threads in this folder(serious debate) that's others may find offensive and you have been quite vocal in them.

I am neither black nor muslim ,I am South African (Boer) .Thread titles "ban the Burka??" "now you can't call a black person a chocalate hob nob" will offend some but as it's serious debates then people will voice their opinions and should continue to do so then points made can be debated .

LOL if we weren't to discuss anything sensitive we would all be swapping apple tart recipe's.

exactly!

[Niamh.]

I do understand what you are saying and on the whole agree. Personally I did not make any comments on the 'now you can't call a black person a chocolate hob nob' as always considered that title very inflammatory. But I do feel the 'ban the burka' thread was a reasonable one - based on certain religious practices, not race.

But I think the soldiers one is an exception - as it is insulting people that have died - people who can no longer speak for themselves. People may be understandably offended by comments they may consider racist - but it is not the same as the upset that would be caused to the close relatives of people that have died - whilst supporting their country - when hearing them verbally abused and insulted.

It's only an exception in your eyes because it offends you! I'm sure all the people in LTs list of "undesirables" were extremely offended.

[lime]

I do understand what you are saying and on the whole agree. Personally I did not make any comments on the 'now you can't call a black person a chocolate hob nob' as always considered that title very inflammatory. But I do feel the 'ban the burka' thread was a reasonable one - based on certain religious practices, not race.

But I think the soldiers one is an exception - as it is insulting people that have died - people who can no longer speak for themselves. People may be understandably offended by comments they may consider racist - but it is not the same as the upset that would be caused to the close relatives of people that have died - whilst supporting their country - when hearing them verbally abused and insulted.

Again I understand but i don't see any exceptions to be honest.

[WOMBAI]

So it's ok for LT to upset any Muslims, Gypsys, Nigerians etc. but not you because you have a son in the army??? eeeeeeehhhhhhh, ok then.

Did have a son in the army! Insulting people that have died for their country is not the same and likely to cause a lot more hurt - as I commented on in the post above. We are all offended by many different things, and, of course, people have a right to be offended by any remarks they consider racist - but noone has died - not quite the same!

[Niamh.]

Did have a son in the army! Insulting people that have died for their country is not the same and likely to cause a lot more hurt - as I commented on in the post above. We are all offended by many different things, and, of course, people have a right to be offended by any remarks they consider racist - but noone has died - not quite the same!

I would imagine lots of people have died or been hurt due to racist attacks WOMBAI, again, I am not trying to belittle your situation but you can't say it's ok to talk about one thing because it doesn't really effect/offend you but we can't talk about this because it does!!

[lime]

Did have a son in the army! Insulting people that have died for their country is not the same and likely to cause a lot more hurt - as I commented on in the post above. We are all offended by many different things, and, of course, people have a right to be offended by any remarks they consider racist - but noone has died - not quite the same!

Have to disagree with you there ,people have died because of racism ,I know you only mention racist remarks ,but racism can result in death the same as defending your country can.

[lime]

I'm more of a rhubarb and custard pie fan myself.
It was more a case of humble pie for me after the rugby last week:bawling:

[setanta]

It was more a case of humble pie for me after the rugby last week:bawling:

Why's that? Are you a Kiwi?

[WOMBAI]

Have to disagree with you there ,people have died because of racism ,I know you only mention racist remarks ,but racism can result in death the same as defending your country can.

Fair point! But as I don't consider that I have made any racist comments - despite having been acused of doing so by one or two - disapproving of certain religions and their practices is not racist - I feel entitled to express the view that insulting people that have died for their country in a forum thread is just a step too far.

[lime]

Fair point! But as I don't consider that I have made any racist comments - despite having been acused of doing so by one or two - disapproving of certain religions and their practices is not racist - I feel entitled to express the view that insulting people that have died for their country in a forum thread is just a step too far.


No No No .
I never called you a racist and you are entitled to disapprove of certain religions.

look all I am trying to say is that I suppose when it comes to serious debate that there are some posts or thread titles can will insult some ,but i still believe they should be discussed .

[WOMBAI]

No No No .
I never called you a racist and you are entitled to disapprove of certain religions.

look all I am trying to say is that I suppose when it comes to serious debate that there are some posts or thread titles can will insult some ,but i still believe they should be discussed .

Wer'e getting our wires crossed here. Sorry, I didn't mean you - you haven't accused me of that - but one or two others have in a previous thread. I have no issue with you.

[lime]

:Wer'e getting our wires crossed here. Sorry, I didn't mean you - you haven't accused me of that - but one or two others have in a previous thread. I have no issue with you.:
:thumbs:

[InOne]

Well it was me who started the Ban The Burka thread, and it has nothing to do with race at all. And if anyone gets offended by what I say about religion, well.....good.

[Niamh.]

Well it was me who started the Ban The Burka thread, and it has nothing to do with race at all. And if anyone gets offended by what I say about religion, well.....good.

You're entitled to start that Thread If you like Joe as was Stephanie entitled to start this one!

[InOne]

You're entitled to start that Thread If you like Joe as was Stephanie entitled to start this one!

Of course she is entitled to start it, I think it was just what she actually said in it that annoyed wombai

[WOMBAI]

You're entitled to start that Thread If you like Joe as was Stephanie entitled to start this one!

Only if she is prepared to take the criticism and not have others use her age as an excuse for taking no responsibity for her actions! She isn't that young!

[Niamh.]

Of course she is entitled to start it, I think it was just what she actually said in it that annoyed wombai

that's her opinion though!! Wombais opinions have annoyed other people in other threads too!!

[Niamh.]

Only if she is prepared to take the criticism and not have others use her age as an excuse for taking no responsibity for her actions! She isn't that young!

Again, you are entitled to challange her opinions of course but like I said I just didn't like you calling her stupid is all!!

[InOne]

if they want to join the army then it's their fault if they get blown up tbh
kinda stupid, not brave.

I think comments like that could be seen as offensive and if this is about 'soliders in general' imagine if she said that to anyone who fought in WW2 or any war that people feel strongly about. It's not an opinion it's ignorance.

[Prole]

:conf:


Only if that's where they're posted. To be honest, it's preferable to Catterick.

[Prole]

if they want to join the army then it's their fault if they get blown up tbh
kinda stupid, not brave.

You're lucky you live in a country where morons like you are allowed to spout every half-baked thought that enters their under-developed mind and call it "free speech". You're a walking argument for contraception. You disgust me.

[Max Robespierre]

No, Hell does not exist. Next.