The execution of Akmal Shaikh - thoughts?

[Shaun]

If you've been living under a rock - a British man has been executed in China for attempting to smuggle a large quantity of heroin into the country - but there are claims he was mentally unstable and other stories about it being planted on him.

[lily.]

You do the crime - you do the time. Or in this case, you get shot.

If he's guilty, I have no sympathy for him. I'd need more details before I could comment further. I am aware of the story, but not all the details.

[King Gizzard]

I think its absolutely obsurd. Executing someone for drug smuggling. Hardly an eye for an eye is it?

[InOne]

Well he was Bipolar, and it was said he was in a manic phase and quite vunerable at the time. But would not really expect China to take that into account with their human rights record

[ILoveTRW]

i think we should bring executions into this country tbh

[Callum]

Think it was over the top to be honest. There are murderers and serial killers in prision who should be executed instead!

[lily.]

It's not really about whether you support China's laws/punishments though.

If you don't agree with them, you shouldn't visit their country, especially if you plan to break the law.

[Shaun]

Obviously this drags up the whole capital punishment debate, but ignoring that - the absence of mental examination / a real criminal trial is alarming.

[30stone]

It's not really about whether you support China's laws/punishments though.

If you don't agree with them, you shouldn't visit their country, especially if you plan to break the law.

Very true.

[Stacey.]

I think its terrible.
yes, ok, he was doing drug smuggling, i know what people say.
A Life For a life. :bored:
i dont agree with that at all. he was bipolar,he got carried away.
he could have had some special attention to help him.
there are solutions to cases like these. Theee execution is AWFUL. :yuk:
and imagine how his family must feel :bawling:

[lily.]

Obviously this drags up the whole capital punishment debate, but ignoring that - the absence of mental examination / a real criminal trial is alarming.

It is alarming, but is it surprising Shaun?

Let's face it, we all know we aren't going to get a fair trial in some countries, so why go there?

[Iceman]

Chinese Law......your foreign office knew about this for 6 months.......why did the story only come to light in the past week or so...

[Tom4784]

I'm against the Death Penalty as a whole, I think he should have been deported and made to face trial in the UK instead.

[Jordan.]

Akmal Shaikh a British man?

[andyman]

China have many secrets and this highlights their "justice system" and lack of human rights..

Many have died trying to get the truth out, China with its rich history has become a dark beast..

[Patrick]

****ing stupid chineese bastards.

So poor guy, If I were him I wouldnt give that country a thought of going on holiday to.

Smugling it into the country and this is how they act?

Could imagine the chineese police saying this:
你他妈的杂种你不能使我国毒品你狗屎你现在必须拍摄哈哈陈锡英国片

[Stu]

China scares me. It's amazing when we are in our comfort zones that we forget a very large portion of the world is living in a country where the internet itself is censored to a very large extent. None of us are truley free but countries like China just take the biscuit.

[Patrick]

i dont agree with that at all. he was bipolar,he got carried away.


He was bipolar?

Poor guy, even more a reason for the bastards not to kill him.

[andyman]

Chinese Law......your foreign office knew about this for 6 months.......why did the story only come to light in the past week or so...We've known about it for some time, it has only been in the media spotlight because of the build up to his death sentence.

It shows how weak Britian is in world politics, we need Chinese trade with it being worth Billions!

[Iceman]

He was bipolar?

Poor guy, even more a reason for the bastards not to kill him.

Thats why they were trying to get him off the death sentence.....

while were on china i heard today they execute more people per year than all other countries combined....shocking

[30stone]

I never really know when these people are supposedly "mentally ill/unstable"

Sometimes i think they just try it on, to get em off the hook.

[Iceman]

I never really know when these people are supposedly "mentally ill/unstable"

Sometimes i think they just try it on, to get em off the hook.

I think in this case he had been diagnosed before he went to china.......could be wrong though....

[Patrick]

Thats why they were trying to get him off the death sentence.....

while were on china i heard today they execute more people per year than all other countries combined....shocking

Thats terrible, so now hes dead?

Being Bipolar is ****, feel sorry him and his family knowing their son is over in the 2nd most shittest country in the world, being excecuted without a say.

[andyman]

If the shìt hits the fan, China will make Nazi Germany look like some kind of Disney fairytale..

But hey thats the world, British empire had it dark side and the Roman empire.

[Iceman]

Thats terrible, so now hes dead?

Being Bipolar is ****, feel sorry him and his family knowing their son is over in the 2nd most shittest country in the world, being excecuted without a say.

Yeah h e got executed in the middle of last night...

[Stu]

I never really know when these people are supposedly "mentally ill/unstable"

Sometimes i think they just try it on, to get em off the hook.
Bipolar disorder is a real, diagnosable disease. You can't just 'try it on' like a dress to get off the hook.

I've had it for a few years now but thankfully I'm pretty good at keeping my own head in check so it's not a huge deal for me. I just get days of endless creative energy where I won't sleep at all, usually followed by a few days of thinking sleep is the only thing worth doing at all.

[InOne]

He was diagnosed before he went, heard about this about 4 or 5 months ago.

[Patrick]

I've had it for a few years now but thankfully I'm pretty good at keeping my own head in check so it's not a huge deal for me. I just get days of endless creative energy where I won't sleep at all, usually followed by a few days of thinking sleep is the only thing worth doing at all.

Same Stu, Well done on how your dealing with it.

[Stu]

Cheers.

[andyman]

He wanted to be a pop star, he went to China to seek it.. Even a music video was made.

I would rather have the justice of Darth Vader than the Chinese government..

The unknown deaths by the Chinese will be very high.

[Patrick]

How did they kill him?

Eletric Chair?

Gass Him?

[Iceman]

How did they kill him?

Eletric Chair?

Gass Him?

lethal injection as far as i can remember.

he was the first european (that we know of) to be executed in over 50 years

[King Gizzard]

Last thing we want to do is get in a war of words with China

[Stu]

True. Translators cost a fortune.

[Okay, that was a bad one].

[King Gizzard]

:joker:

[Stu]

Just plain wong.

[Sorry].

[Shaun]

I never really know when these people are supposedly "mentally ill/unstable"

Sometimes i think they just try it on, to get em off the hook.

That's the problem - in this case we'll never know, because they killed him before it could be judged.

[Patrick]

True. Translators cost a fortune.

[Okay, that was a bad one].

:joker::joker::joker:

[biglover]

This is outragous, drugs isnt death worthy, China is a ****ed up country

[Patrick]

This is outragous, drugs isnt death worthy, China is a ****ed up country

Agree

[Sticks]

It is not for us to comment on the internal judical afairs of another sovereign state.

We do business every day with China, and injudicious words should not be allowed to put that at risk.

[arista]

Obviously this drags up the whole capital punishment debate, but ignoring that - the absence of mental examination / a real criminal trial is alarming.


China does its own Corrupt Mental Checking.
Your Computer and TV is made in China
or parts of it,
so even though they are not western in thinking
they are the World Leader in Cheap Trade.


One Eyed Scottish Brown
told the World that China wrecked the Climate Debate.
So it not like the UK is in a good way with China.

He could have gone on a Flight out there to stop this
would have been a Vote winner,
but he is No Good as a Leader.

[arista]

It is not for us to comment on the internal judical afairs of another sovereign state.

We do business every day with China, and injudicious words should not be allowed to put that at risk.



Yes Sticks that is the Official way
but our Media keeps it up high.

It will not stop the Shipping of Computers
Trade is not at Risk
this is Political
and One Eyed Scottish Brown
has Punched China in the Face
a few weeks back at the Climate Event.

[Twilight]

Drugs isnt death worthy imo

[Stu]

It is not for us to comment on the internal judical afairs of another sovereign state.

We do business every day with China, and injudicious words should not be allowed to put that at risk.
I'm in the business of free speech, myself. I realise China doesn't have surplus stocks of that, but I'm sure they talk about us quiet a bit too. What a ****ed up world you live in.

[WOMBAI]

I'm inclined to believe that the 'mentally ill' claim was just an attempt to get him off - especially bearing in mind that the family also claimed that the drugs were planted on him. Which is it - mentally ill and not knowing what he was doing or the drugs were planted?

Agree with posters that said if he did do it - then more fool him, no good whining about it when you get caught. He didn't even have the excuse of being young and ignorant - he was in his fifties. If he decided to take the risk, but the odds went against him - then that is the price he has to pay! People should know by now that you can't mess around and abuse other countries' laws.

[Stu]

God forbid it's possible to be old and ignorant.

[WOMBAI]

God forbid it's possible to be old and ignorant.

Of course - but the older you get the more you learn - called life experience - it isn't a fallacy!

[Stu]

I don't buy that one bit. Intelligence is not directly linked to age. Life is more complex than that. Some people stay in front of the telly collecting welfare cheques for all eternity, some don't absorb knowledge, some do but never capatalise on it, some people just seem to get thicker as they go along, some people start out fine and become born again at the age of 42.

You can't just say older instantly = wiser.

Taking your logic a 42 year old will always be smarter and in a better position to make judgements than a 22 year old.

[WOMBAI]

I don't buy that one bit. Intelligence is not directly linked to age. Life is more complex than that. Some people stay in front of the telly collecting welfare cheques for all eternity, some don't absorb knowledge, some do but never capatalise on it, some people just seem to get thicker as they go along, some people start out fine and become born again at the age of 42.

You can't just say older instantly = wiser.

Taking your logic a 42 year old will always be smarter and in a better position to make judgements than a 22 year old.

I never said it was! I'm not talking about intelligence - that is genetically determined. I am talking about knowledge - and a lot of that comes over time - as I said before - life experience!

[InOne]

Well if he was truly in a manic phase, you can become delusional, hallucinate and really not know what was going on. Bipolar isn't always about being manic and depressed. If he was in that state at the time then he didn't deserve to die for it. The family even flew to China to try convince them of his mental illness. UK should have done more really. But it's China, which is a brutal country anyway. If I was in a manic phase and that happened to me i'd hope my country would have done more to prevent my death. I know how it feels and you really have no control. So it's not about 'Do the crime do the time' when mental illness comes into it.

[lily.]

If his illness was likely to cause him to break the law, then why visit a country like China where everyone knows his illness won't be accepted as a defence?

[InOne]

Cos sometimes you are in control sometimes you're not. You can be ok for years and then suddenly break down

[lily.]

I'm not trying to be unsympathetic, and I agree that his illness is a valid defence, but I just always feel the same about the laws of other lands. I'm the first one to harp on about people respecting the laws/cultures of the UK, and I believe that applies to everyone all across the world.

For example, I wouldn't visit some of the strict muslim countries where I would be punished for wearing shorts..

I assume he was thinking clearly when he chose to visit China. Why then, did he not realise the danger he could theoretically put himself in, had a manic episode occurred during his visit?

[WOMBAI]

Well if he was truly in a manic phase, you can become delusional, hallucinate and really not know what was going on. Bipolar isn't always about being manic and depressed. If he was in that state at the time then he didn't deserve to die for it. The family even flew to China to try convince them of his mental illness. UK should have done more really. But it's China, which is a brutal country anyway. If I was in a manic phase and that happened to me i'd hope my country would have done more to prevent my death. I know how it feels and you really have no control. So it's not about 'Do the crime do the time' when mental illness comes into it.

Fair enough if he did suffer from the illness. Have the family produced any evidence of that do you know? All seems a bit convenient when considering that they also claim that the drugs were planted on him. If one defence fails - got the safety net of the other.

[InOne]

He went there to start a music career, me also made very odd music videos, and he was sending erratic letters to the British embassy in Poland. A doc also comfirmed he suffered from a delusional form of Bipolar. A British doc was denied access to see him in China.

[lily.]

According to sky news WOMBAI: Mr Shaikh's family and supporters say he was seriously mentally ill and was duped into carrying the drugs unknowingly by a gang.



I'm not always quick to believe people were "duped" into carrying drugs. I can't help thinking they would be offered a substantial financial sum for doing so, and that's why they carried them.



SKY NEWS ARTICLE HERE (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Akmal-Shaikh-Executed-In-China-As-Britons-Death-Sentence-Approved-By-Supreme-Court/Article/200912415509509?lpos=World_News_First_UK_News_Arti cle_Teaser_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_15509509_Akmal_Shaikh_Executed_In_Chin a_As_Britons_Death_Sentence_Approved_By_Supreme_Co urt)

[lily.]

There appears to be no previous record of his 'mental illness'.

Doesn't anyone find that odd?

[WOMBAI]

It seems from reading that, that there may have been some sort of evidence of his condition. Don't think the government would have been taking such a stance if they were not aware of it. It is a difficult judgement to make without knowing all the facts.

[lily.]

The problem is, we'll get two distorted versions of 'the facts'. One from the corrupt Chinese government and one from an outraged grieving family.

[Stu]

I never said it was! I'm not talking about intelligence - that is genetically determined. I am talking about knowledge - and a lot of that comes over time - as I said before - life experience!
Fair enough, mixing up of terms, but I still don't think what you are saying is strictly true. A lot of teens read books. A lot of adults remain thick. Look at the baby P case. I just don't think it's fair to assume the older someone is the wiser.

Cliches aint' always true. Just most of the time :wink:.

[Sticks]

He's dead
It's over
Move on and stop bad mouthing one of our principal trading partners :nono:

Do you not care about British jobs in the middle of the deepest recession?

[Stu]

He's dead
It's over
Move on and stop bad mouthing one of our principal trading partners :nono:

Do you not care about British jobs in the middle of the deepest recession?
Alright then. Don't bring up Jesus to me.

[andyman]

He's dead
It's over
Move on and stop bad mouthing one of our principal trading partners :nono:

Do you not care about British jobs in the middle of the deepest recession?I understand what you say with the bigger picture, we must suck on the teet of the Red Beast and brush humanity under the carpet..

[Stu]

So do we reckon Chinese intelligence has taken a fancy to the ol' TiBB?

Hey guys, if your reading, your country's a load of ****.

:hugesmile:

[InOne]

Indeed, I wonder if this happened to a White Middle Class teacher, things would be different

[_Seth]

Akmal Shaikh a British man?

:joker:

Anyway, this is why I majorly detest China. They're a sick, disgraceful and ultimately ****ed up country with ****ed up morals.

[Braden]

Oh, i think he should just be arrested

[Stu]

I suspect he was at some point.

[lily.]

He's dead
It's over
Move on and stop bad mouthing one of our principal trading partners :nono:

Do you not care about British jobs in the middle of the deepest recession?


How dare you tell people what to discuss? Our forefathers fought for our freedom and our rights. We live in a free country. We have freedom of speech, and if we wish to discuss this or anything else, then we shall.

[Sticks]

Freedom of speech does not entitle one to yell fire in a crowded theatre (When there is no fire)

With such comes responsibilities.

[Stu]

If you want to get anal about it, it does, making that a terrible metaphor, if it were not bad enough as it is.

[Captain.Remy]

"has been executed in China"

That says it all really.

[Stu]

The food rocks, but that's about it.

Now let's hope they don't stop sending us fine goods.

[Lewis.]

Fair enough if it was any other person who was perfectly sane.. It is Chinas rules.. But they really should have taken his condition into consideration before making any quick decisions. I am personally disgusted with the way that the case was held. They had no sympathy for the fact that he was very vulnerable and had a mental illness. The things that China get away with, because of their insane amount of money, is disgusting.

[Sticks]

Alright then. Don't bring up Jesus to me.

Would you care for Romans 13:1-7 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2013:1-7&version=NIV), a section some people forget.

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgement on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honour, then honour.

This case was handled in accordance with their laws, which as a sovereign state they are entitled to do, without interference from outsiders.

[Stu]

Wait, so your holding up The Bible as a moral and judicial compass? That's a good one. First of all I don't believe in what The Bible has to say, making it a meaningless argument to me, second of all it contradicts itself a dizzying amount of times, third of all - and dragging Godwins Law into it - so nobody should have challenged, say, the Third Reich's law's and policys?

And you know Chinese law is not inspired or upheld by Christianity or The Bible right? Making your argument even more meaningless? Not everybody believes what you believe. And thank god for that.

Your metaphor still sucked, and your reasoning still sucks. Unless Chinese intelligence in fact are viewing the forums.

That was brief. I could sit here all day and poke holes in all the aspects of these arguments of yours that I find riddiculous.

[lily.]

This case was handled in accordance with their laws, which as a sovereign state they are entitled to do, without interference from outsiders.


Graeme, I already said something similar. It's their country, their laws, and their decision ultimately.

But I take issue with you insisting we should not discuss this. This is a discussion forum. We don't live in China. We live in the UK. We are entitled to discuss this.

[arista]

Yes Lili
in the UK we can Debate it.


But no one can change China
but the people of China , over many, many years.

[arista]

He's dead
It's over
Move on and stop bad mouthing one of our principal trading partners :nono:

Do you not care about British jobs in the middle of the deepest recession?


Yes he is Dead.


But it is Not Over

Tit For Tat.



Sign Of The Times.

[AliAbdul]

why did the kill him?????????
i believed in him he was my god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[arista]

why did the kill him?????????
i believed in him he was my god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


'why did theY kill him'

His case he brought into China was full of Illegal Drugs.
They have a Strict Rule
Punishment by Death only.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The moral of the tale is lets kill people to show we mean business. what that business actually is, well lets not get into that


next

[andyman]

The moral of the tale is lets kill people to show we mean business. what that business actually is, well lets not get into that


nextYou're saying that China are making a point and not to be fúçked with?

[andyman]

.. Iran, stole billions and fund terror groups..

Off topic :shocked:

[NettoSuperstar!]

I find it sad really really horribly sad, the guy had a history of mental illness and if you've ever knew anyone who's had a manic episode you'd be really sad too

[Tom]

Its daft, whilst I don't agree with what he did I could reel off a list of people who deserve execution more than he does, but half of the people who do deserve it get new identities or an easy time in prison!!