Can an omnipotent God create a rock so heavy he can't lift??

[InOne]

Well?

[Sticks]

This is the same as could God create a square circle, a logical absurdity

[Tom]

This is the same as could God create a square circle, a logical absurdity

Its not, because creating a stone thats too heavy to lift IS a possibility

[setanta]

Yep, it's called Marcus. I just had a flashback to six months ago there, sorry.

[InOne]

Nice to see that 'When will IloveDC come back' got more replies than this. Guess i'm dealing with idiocy.

[setanta]

Nice to see that 'When will IloveDC come back' got more replies than this. Guess i'm dealing with idiocy.

What's the story with you Joseph? In a fouler or something?

[BB_Eye]

Its not, because creating a stone thats too heavy to lift IS a possibility

Not for an omnipotent being it isn't.

[InOne]

What's the story with you Joseph? In a fouler or something?

Nah, god know what I was expecting from a BB forum lol

[InOne]

Not for an omnipotent being it isn't.

Well said, ergo - god is impossible.

[InOne]

It's an old argument, but not heard any argument to refute it ever.

[BB_Eye]

Well said, ergo - god is impossible.

Nothing all-powerful could diminish its own power. From the same a priori reasoning, nothing perfect could be nonexistant. It would be an imperfection.

[InOne]

Nothing all-powerful could diminish its own power. From the same a priori reasoning, nothing omnipotent could be nonexistant. It would be an imperfection.

Which leads to the idea that a god itself is pretty much a contradiction.

[BB_Eye]

Which leads to the idea that a god itself is pretty much a contradiction.

Only an empirical contradiction, not a logical one and pure logic exists independently of our senses. I would argue, as some others might, that the statement that God exists is every bit as true as the proposition that a triangle always consists of three sides.

[InOne]

Only an empirical contradiction, not a logical one and pure logic exists independently of our senses. I would argue, as some others might, that the statement that God exists is every bit as true as the proposition that a triangle always consists of three sides.

Not the Humans perception of God, or the God of Religion, you are touching at Deism there.

[Jords]

If Im understanding it properly, yeah.

You can make a small snowball, and pick it up, put keep rolling that snowball so it gets bigger and bigger, then you cannot.

[arista]

This is the same as could God create a square circle, a logical absurdity


Sticks


Slap your self into the Real World



There Is No God
Utter Fact.

[Tom]

Not for an omnipotent being it isn't.

Theres no such thing because either way with the scenario it results in something he can't do. Therefore God is not omnipotent.

[InOne]

It a realistic sense, it is impossible to be omnipotent.

[Crimson Dynamo]

First, there is a problem with the premise of the question. While it is true that God can do anything that is consistent with His nature, it is absurd to suggest that He can do everything: God cannot lie (Heb. 6:18), He cannot be tempted (James 1:13), and He cannot cease to exist (Ps. 102:25–27). Furthermore, just as it is impossible to make a one-sided triangle, so it is impossible to make a rock too heavy to be moved. What an all-powerful God can create He can obviously move. Put another way, God can do everything that is logically possible. Finally, we should note that a wide variety of similar questions are raised to undermine the Christian view of God. Thus, it is crucial that we learn to question the question rather than assuming the question is valid.


Bible Answer man
volume 1

[lily.]

MY OPINION:

There is no god.
There are rocks.

[Shaun]

What an all-powerful God can create He can obviously move.

And therefore he cannot create what he cannot move - which is the paradox.

[Crimson Dynamo]

MY OPINION:

There is no god.
There are rocks.

I would imagine that the god that you do not believe in did not exist in the first place.

[Crimson Dynamo]

And therefore he cannot create what he cannot move - which is the paradox.

there is no paradox, the question is simply invalid. Your assumption of a valid question is incorrect.

[Tom]

First, there is a problem with the premise of the question. While it is true that God can do anything that is consistent with His nature, it is absurd to suggest that He can do everything: God cannot lie (Heb. 6:18), He cannot be tempted (James 1:13), and He cannot cease to exist (Ps. 102:25–27). Furthermore, just as it is impossible to make a one-sided triangle, so it is impossible to make a rock too heavy to be moved. What an all-powerful God can create He can obviously move. Put another way, God can do everything that is logically possible. Finally, we should note that a wide variety of similar questions are raised to undermine the Christian view of God. Thus, it is crucial that we learn to question the question rather than assuming the question is valid.


Bible Answer man
volume 1

Philosophical answer because otherwise its logic- 1, religion- 0. Comparing it to the triangle argument is ridiculous, because whilst you can't make a 2 sided triangle or whatever, you CAN make a rock thats too heavy, or you can't do it. So either way he isn't omnipotent.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Philosophical answer because otherwise its logic- 1, religion- 0.

its just a bogus question however you try to dress it up

and a very old one at that

[Tom]

its just a bogus question however you try to dress it up

and a very old one at that

Its only a bogus question because its something that can't be justified by Christians.

[InOne]

Might be old but you can't refute it...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Philosophical answer because otherwise its logic- 1, religion- 0. Comparing it to the triangle argument is ridiculous, because whilst you can't make a 2 sided triangle or whatever, you CAN make a rock thats too heavy, or you can't do it. So either way he isn't omnipotent.

it is just another straw man argument. google has many for you to choose from.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Might be old but you can't refute it...

it is about as valid an argument as "you smell so there"

[Lewis.]

Well, If he was omnipotent, then yes - which contradicts the fact that he is omnipotent.. logically that means that God is not omnipotent.

[Tom]

it is about as valid an argument as "you smell so there"

No, because you're basing that on opinion so its different. The following 2 scenarios are plain FACTS and you cannot deny them how much you try

1) You CAN make a rock thats too heavy to lift- therefore you can't lift it
2) You CANNOT make a rock thats too heavy to lift- therefore you can't do it

Therefore in either scenario there is something you CANNOT do.

How can you compare that to personal opinion or illogical things? I bet if there was a clearer argument that was basically the same pointing towards God's existence, Christians would be shouting it from the roof tops as solid proof.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The word "omnipotent" is never used in the Bible

[30stone]

No, i tried, the rock was huge, i could lift it still easily :)

[Lewis.]

lmao

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://scratchbrain.com/images/snap/2/Big%20rock%20-%20mahabalipuram%20-kwgzs.JPG


I know for a fact that this was not here yesterday so i think Inone has some humble pie to eat?

[Rob]

nope he doesn't exsist

[Crimson Dynamo]

nope he doesn't exsist

InOne?

[Tom]

The word "omnipotent" is never used in the Bible

Then why do Christians give him the 4 attributes that all contradict themselves anyway? It only goes against their argument ...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Then why do Christians give him the 4 attributes that all contradict themselves anyway? It only goes against their argument ...

yes you are right, 2000 years of worship down the drain. I will call the church and let them know.

[InOne]

Christians use the word omnipotent when they dress creationism up as 'intelligent design'

[Crimson Dynamo]

Christians use the word omnipotent when they dress creationism up as 'intelligent design'

lol

i have never heard a Christian use the word omnipotent in my life. You should darken the inside a church rather than surf the odd atheist website:hugesmile:

[InOne]

lol

i have never heard a Christian use the word omnipotent in my life. You should darken the inside a church rather than surf the odd atheist website:hugesmile:

They always use it lol omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient are like Creationists 3 favourite words, fancy words for a whole load of bollocks

[Niamh.]

ahhhhh, the age old question JoeJoe............

[InOne]

ahhhhh, the age old question JoeJoe............

The answer is no :tongue:

[Stu]

The real question is could he turn it into wine and convince people to hand over money at fixed intervals for it's preservation.

[Fom]

yes you are right, 2000 years of worship down the drain. I will call the church and let them know.

To think that it was all created 2000 years ago, when people were extremely Naive and some people still believe it... is laughable in my eyes.

[Stu]

If Scientology had got there first we would all be slaves to the Grand Overlord of the planet Sciratchu right now, laughing and looking down on this bizzare new Hollywood fad known as Christianity.

[Crimson Dynamo]

To think that it was all created 2000 years ago, when people were extremely Naive and some people still believe it... is laughable in my eyes.

The myth that somehow 2000 years ago people were naive is alive and well. People were probably a lot less naive than they are now. Just because they did not have cars, internet and lady gaga does not make them naive.

What is laughable is how every generation thinks that they are the clever ones, the ones who know, the ones who have worked it all out.


and then comes the next generation. :wavey:

[Niamh.]

If Scientology had got there first we would all be slaves to the Grand Overlord of the planet Sciratchu right now, laughing and looking down on this bizzare new Hollywood fad known as Christianity.

Exactly!! What you believe in completly depends on what part of the world brain washed you!!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Exactly!! What you believe in completly depends on what part of the world brain washed you!!

yes, the point is of course valid, or wait hang on, perhaps the latter has no basis in truth or reality and therefore would have got no further than the myriad of other "faiths and false messiahs" around at that time..

to think that Christianity was just the one that was around at that time is to fully misunderstand the period, the message, the history and the reality.


that said scientology and science are words that sound similar so do the math...

[30stone]

I can stop the unstoppable force.

And i can move the immovable object.

[Niamh.]

My point is LT, If you're a religous person, I think you need to have studied all the other religions and then decide which one is right but people almost always follow the religion that they've been brought up with and have had drilled into there heads.

[Crimson Dynamo]

My point is LT, If you're a religous person, I think you need to have studied all the other religions and then decide which one is right but people almost always follow the religion that they've been brought up with and have had drilled into there heads.

Are there not Christians in all countries?

[Tom]

Are there not Christians in all countries?

There are members of all religions in all countries.

[Niamh.]

Are there not Christians in all countries?

There are but again it depends on what their parents and community etc. follow (generally speaking) I know some people break away and decide to follow a different religion to the one they've been told to but that is not very common