Stephen (long thread)

[PaulyJ]

I don't like most of the preaching that Stephen does, you know the stuff that is otherworldly, but when he speaks of the people in the house he makes a lot of scence to me. When he was talking in the diary room about the way the Group was treating Sov, was not to say Sov was right and everyone else is wrong, which is the usual logic i find, but he was saying although she was wrong, what is your agenda in the way you respond to her, are you attempting to punish her, or just to rid yourself of her, or help her. I think instead of Stephen asking "If Sov was a family member" he should of asked If you we're in the house alone with Sov would you of treated her differently. The point being when groups form each individual loses part of their own individuality, even when this means giving up your scence of right and wrong. Take Steph for instance, Vinnie volunteered Ivana for the modelling task, Steph realizing the embarassment it would cause Ivana stood up for Ivana by saying she herself would not do the task, but when Vinnie argued on, Steph gave up her individual scence of right and wrong and agreed that Ivana should get over the embarrassment and do it.

I think Stephen is right when he said, he is being himself regardless of the consequences and others are not, and this means he is going against Vinnie's team. The dynamics will insist that Stephen becomes the new Sov, and although he like Sov has his faults and has been criticised previously, the difference now is that the criticism will come from a team perspective, the perspective that has no contribution from individual scenses of right and wrong, the Group will speak as one and it's leader Vinnie will define the group's opinion.

If your part of a group and you wake up one day to find someone like Vinnie Jones has aquired the silent votes to be nominated leader. It's time to change your group affiliation.

The strength of Stephen to deliberatly go against the group and speak as an individual surely puts his strength meter higher than all the other hm's in their.
The value of Stephen in the houser for me now has gone up massively and i hope he stays in, not because it will cause friction, although that will be a side effect, but because how else is it possible to get an honest perspective of what is happening in the house. Steph will bend to the group view, so will Dane, Nicola, Ivana, maybe Sisqo, Janas, and Alex will stay quite, but the one who will stand out, and against the morrally compromised concensus will be Stephen.

Scapegoat Anyone?

[Jords]

PaulyJ, long post yes, but what a great one at that! You hit it on the head about losing individual sense in a group, and great example with Stephanie pointing out how embaressed it would be, but then Vinnie basically made her change her mind. Me myself would leave any group if I thought somebody was controlling everybody.

Good post, enjoyed reading it. :thumbs:

Just to add, get Vinnie out!!!

[Patricia4]

I did'nt like him at the begining and still dont like him he's a weird guy.

[GypsyGoth]

Great post, and yes Steve will be singled out as the new Sov, however he is more articulate and he has his belief in god to fall back on, so he won't be throwing strops when confonted by the group.

[Shasown]

Stepehen is a serial reality game show player and has found the ideal opportunity to make a claim to votes, by claiming sov was ostracised and her eviction was because of the group.

He is manipulative, sly and very shrewd. People will see a little truth in what he preaches both to the other celebrities but also in the diary room and ignore the blatant untruths and lend him them support.

Mind you his rants are quite amusing.

[PaulyJ]

I did'nt like him at the begining and still dont like him he's a weird guy.

There's nothing weirder and more damaging than a powerful control freak. At least Stephens weirdness is worn on his sleeve, where as Vinnie's weirdness is disquised.

unconsiously primed army anyone?

[GypsyGoth]

unconsiously primed army anyone?

I don't understand what "unconsiously primed army" means.

[blueberry]

He's a nutter

[PaulyJ]

Stepehen is a serial reality game show player and has found the ideal opportunity to make a claim to votes, by claiming sov was ostracised and her eviction was because of the group.

He is manipulative, sly and very shrewd. People will see a little truth in what he preaches both to the other celebrities but also in the diary room and ignore the blatant untruths and lend him them support.

Mind you his rants are quite amusing.

Have to dis-agree sometimes it's not about getting votes to win a reality show, sometimes it's just about right and wrong, i'd give him the benefit of the doupt

His blatant untruths, well yes all inspired from his fantastical belief in God and the Bible, i can forgive him for that as i provocatively forgive the millions of believers worldwide

[InOne]

Stephen suffers from Delusions and Psychosis, he should be sectioned.

[Shasown]

Yeah right and wrong, pmsl. His "ministries" are for profit, that means he takes a wedge of the money generated by them. He is a Chapter 11 bankrupt, that means he is the trustee of his assets, as opposed to a court appointed trustee, (a normally corporate con to keep trading). And CBB is I think his 6th celebrity reality TV show.

And did you mean fanatical belief in God?

[supergirthuk]

I think Jones has always been a fascist dictator in the house. I just hope he ends up like Mussolini. I had to laugh though when, after so harshly criticising Sov for getting up leaving the the house meeting, he does exactly the same while Baldwin was trying to make his point. Priceless! What an idiot.
I dont particularly like Baldwin but if he goes up against Jones and his black shirts then he will get my support.

[PaulyJ]

I don't understand what "unconsiously primed army" means.

I mean the group aren't actually concious of Vinnie's agenda ( as he said to Steph he's messing with people with Sov gone he needs a new target to mess with) they think they are part of a group with Vinnie the Leader persuing "Harmony"

In reality they are part of a group that are fulfilling Vinnie's desire to control people and mess with people

Sov was a rebel who had to go for Harmony to prevail unconsiously mobillised as an army would, they we're primed to do this by Vinnie's constant chriticism of Sov.

Just my opinion.

If you we're to ask anyone that contributed to Sov's or any Hm from past years such as Freddie last year, we're you thinking for yourself or as part of a group, they would say for myself. Rubbish imo they we're influenced by the group, their own sence of right and wrong disappeared, no one likes being singled out from the group so they follow group thought. in this case Vinnie's agenda.

Vinnie's Unconciously Primed Army.

[GypsyGoth]

:thumbs: Thanks for explaining Pauly.

[Big_Kahuna]

I hope Stephen stays in. Like it has already been said, he has done a few reality programmes now and knows what people find entertaining. After this i'm sure he has done enough to go on to his next one. I for one hope they pick him for I'm a celebrity get me out of here UK later this year (I know he already did it before in another country). Good job Stevie B :)

[PaulyJ]

:thumbs: Thanks for explaining Pauly.

Ay no probs Gypsy:xyxwave:

[blueberry]

Starving, thirsty, homeless Haitians can rest easy now that their solar-powered bibles have finally arrived...

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/earthquake-survivors-get-solar-powered-bibles/story-e6frfku0-1225821184929

More insane religious nuts in America

[Zippy]

He's an inconsistent phoney and his behaviour doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

He would be more than happy if they ganged up on Nicola. But he failed to bring that about. He resents the fact that most of the house are resistent to his bible bashing and preachy blabberings.

[blueberry]

He's an inconsistent phoney and his behaviour doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

He would be more than happy if they ganged up on Nicola. But he failed to bring that about. He resents the fact that most of the house are resistent to his bible bashing and preachy blabberings.

He also has gay urges he needs to address in some way

[setanta]

He's an inconsistent phoney and his behaviour doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

He would be more than happy if they ganged up on Nicola. But he failed to bring that about. He resents the fact that most of the house are resistent to his bible bashing and preachy blabberings.

I agree. He's playing the game, that's all, and doing it rather well actually. You never know, it might just help him survive at eviction time.

[Shasown]

I agree. He's playing the game, that's all, and doing it rather well actually. You never know, it might just help him survive at eviction time.


Hey come on guys you will upset a lot of people on here explaining the truth to them. The forum kinder need a new rebel hero to follow seeing as their queen got asked to leave by over 2/3 of the voting public.

I mean if Mr B really cared about the treatment of Sov as much as he says he did, wouldnt he have said something at the time the "bullying" happened? Its funny how he can play the kindly christian after the event.

[Angus]

It's what's called democracy, where a group act as one on a consensus of majority opinion. I live in England under a government I loathe and despise who have imposed laws with which I do not agree but have to live by. That is what a society is all about. Come the next election I will exercise my democratic right to vote the b*stards out.

Those that want to rebel against the necessary authority required to perpetuate a stable society, usually want to cherry pick what they want, i.e the freedom to say and do what they want, without the consequences that may attach to that behaviour. If everyone went round doing and saying exactly what they want no matter how their behaviour might offend or impact on others, society would quickly break down and open the door to dictatorship and anarchy. I prefer to live with the lesser of two evils, as the majority of people do, since at least there is some order and structure, and mutual protection and support.

If people want to be themselves and do nothing for others, they're welcome to do it elsewhere and not be hypocrites and leeches by availing themselves of other people's efforts and hard work.

[Crimson Dynamo]

nah, he just does not like to be out of the attention. his sov point was silly as this is a reality game show.

he is a big fanny

[barbarella]

Stepehen is a serial reality game show player and has found the ideal opportunity to make a claim to votes, by claiming sov was ostracised and her eviction was because of the group.

Precisely. Now that Sov is out of the house, Stevie B (his alter-ego :devil:) is strategically pining for "Sov's people's" vote.

[robb]

He's a bible thumper, but last nite he scored a few points with me for not mildlt surrendering to Jones, as the others all do.
He has a point about the 'ganging up'......first Sov,then Stephen, next Ivana....then?

[PaulyJ]

It's what's called democracy, where a group act as one on a consensus of majority opinion. I live in England under a government I loathe and despise who have imposed laws with which I do not agree but have to live by. That is what a society is all about. Come the next election I will exercise my democratic right to vote the b*stards out.

Those that want to rebel against the necessary authority required to perpetuate a stable society, usually want to cherry pick what they want, i.e the freedom to say and do what they want, without the consequences that may attach to that behaviour. If everyone went round doing and saying exactly what they want no matter how their behaviour might offend or impact on others, society would quickly break down and open the door to dictatorship and anarchy. I prefer to live with the lesser of two evils, as the majority of people do, since at least there is some order and structure, and mutual protection and support.

If people want to be themselves and do nothing for others, they're welcome to do it elsewhere and not be hypocrites and leeches by availing themselves of other people's efforts and hard work.

Why do you see a Democracy, surely Dictatorship is more the model that happens year in year out of the BB house

Democracy is established through a clear and transparent voting structure, it's true that Vinnie has been voted leader and given authority by the other Hm's but he has gained the votes by being Tyranical and having other hm's fear his wrath

Of course society would break down without authority to moderate people's behaviour but it is Big Brother who is the authority figure in the house not the Hm with the best skills to put weaker Hm's down and make them feel bad about themselves, which Vinnie does gloriously. Or rather it should not be the person with the best put down skills, but year after year it is that.

If your standing up for Democracy you should be able to see the difference between a compassionate, effective, lawful form of Government ( ok, in my dreams), and Vinnie Jones on a power trip. I say power trip because of his words to Steph at the end of LF words to the effect of, i need people to play with now Sov has gone.

I'm sure Vinnie Jones is a fair bloke to his friends, trouble is i think for Vinnie to be fair to you, you have to be his friend. Fair enough for a normal Hm but do you have to be friends with your boss at work for him to treat you fairly? what about at the Police Station when you report a Burglary. Do you have to invite your local MP around to play video games and partake in some sh*ts and giggles before you can expect fair treatment?

NO that's because they are Authority.




To lead you have to have compassion, and Vinnie does not have that

[robb]

He's a bible thumper, but last nite he scored a few points with me for not mildly surrendering to Jones, as the others all do.
He has a point about the 'ganging up'......first Sov,then Stephen, next Ivana....then?

I don't get his hatred towards Nicola though.......he was proved wrong in that argument about who said what during the first round of nons.

[Angus]

Why do you see a Democracy, surely Dictatorship is more the model that happens year in year out of the BB house

Democracy is established through a clear and transparent voting structure, it's true that Vinnie has been voted leader and given authority by the other Hm's but he has gained the votes by being Tyranical and having other hm's fear his wrath

Of course society would break down without authority to moderate people's behaviour but it is Big Brother who is the authority figure in the house not the Hm with the best skills to put weaker Hm's down and make them feel bad about themselves, which Vinnie does gloriously. Or rather it should not be the person with the best put down skills, but year after year it is that.

If your standing up for Democracy you should be able to see the difference between a compassionate, effective, lawful form of Government ( ok, in my dreams), and Vinnie Jones on a power trip. I say power trip because of his words to Steph at the end of LF words to the effect of, i need people to play with now Sov has gone.

I'm sure Vinnie Jones is a fair bloke to his friends, trouble is i think for Vinnie to be fair to you, you have to be his friend. Fair enough for a normal Hm but do you have to be friends with your boss at work for him to treat you fairly? what about at the Police Station when you report a Burglary. Do you have to invite your local MP around to play video games and partake in some sh*ts and giggles before you can expect fair treatment?

NO that's because they are Authority.




To lead you have to have compassion, and Vinnie does not have that

I have seen no evidence of tyranny on Vinnie's part. He speaks his mind, no messing, and has tried to create some structure in the house to eke out limited resources and share out the tasks fairly.

What you are suggesting is that all the other HMs are terrified of him which is utter nonsense and you know it. I'm watching the same show as you and seen no evidence of hostility towards Vinnie or fear of him from any of the HMs - indeed even Sov the would be rebel said she liked him, so clearly its not a dictatorship, but a democracy where Vinnie has tacitly been elected leader. The reason for this is that the other HMs recognise that cooperation is the way to co-exist in the house, and having tried a more "laissez faire" method (Dane & Nicola in the kitchen) have realised that it doesn't work because selfish people like Sov take advantage.

[Zippy]

I have seen no evidence of tyranny on Vinnie's part. He speaks his mind, no messing, and has tried to create some structure in the house to eke out limited resources and share out the tasks fairly.

What you are suggesting is that all the other HMs are terrified of him which is utter nonsense and you know it. I'm watching the same show as you and seen no evidence of hostility towards Vinnie or fear of him from any of the HMs - indeed even Sov the would be rebel said she liked him, so clearly its not a dictatorship, but a democracy where Vinnie has tacitly been elected leader. The reason for this is that the other HMs recognise that cooperation is the way to co-exist in the house, and having tried a more "laissez faire" method (Dane & Nicola in the kitchen) have realised that it doesn't work because selfish people like Sov take advantage.

Exactly. No nominations speaks for itself. They respect Vinnie because he speaks his mind AND pulls his weight in the house. They agreed with him about Sov and last night it was obvious they agreed when he had a go at Stephen. He is the Daddy of the house and I think they actually like having that sorted out because it saves any power struggles.

Stephen is just playing the same stupid games he plays on all these reality shows. Attention *****. It's his new career; playing the sneaky preacher on reality shows. He wants to win and spread the gospel at the same time.

[Beastie]

They are ALL playing the game. The one who has played the biggest game will be crowned the winner..

[Stacey.]

They are ALL playing the game. The one who has played the biggest game will be crowned the winner..

that means it would be Vinnie or Nicola..
:bawling:

[PaulyJ]

I have seen no evidence of tyranny on Vinnie's part. He speaks his mind, no messing, and has tried to create some structure in the house to eke out limited resources and share out the tasks fairly.

What you are suggesting is that all the other HMs are terrified of him which is utter nonsense and you know it

Can i ask you why do you think Stephanie changed her mind about Ivana doing the Modelling task, do you think Vinnie made Stephanie see sense, that she realised she was wrong, and Vinnie was right, or do you think she was scared to defy Vinnie, as i do.

By fear i mean, a fear of being cast out of the group not a physical fear of harm, more a fear of not being included in conversations, your faults being scrutinised by Vinnie and then by the group, being mocked as Alex was by Vinnie after the Tossed Salad debate.

Democracy:
government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

Dictator:
a person exercising absolute power, esp. a ruler who has absolute, unrestricted control in a government without hereditary succession.

Ok well i will admit the house looks more like a Democracy than a Dictatorship given the definitions, but Vinnie's agenda is not the good of all, he has already said he likes playing with people. I take that as at least part of his agenda for as you put it "create some structure in the house to eke out limited resources and share out the tasks fairly."

On the subject of Tasks do you think it is fair to ask, ney, brow beat a Granny to jump into a skin coloured leotard and pose for the whole world to see. It may of been her turn to do a task but come on Horses for Courses right?

I'd agree the house is less chaotic with him in charge my point is he is abusing his power.

[Angus]

Can i ask you why do you think Stephanie changed her mind about Ivana doing the Modelling task, do you think Vinnie made Stephanie see sense, that she realised she was wrong, and Vinnie was right, or do you think she was scared to defy Vinnie, as i do.

By fear i mean, a fear of being cast out of the group not a physical fear of harm, more a fear of not being included in conversations, your faults being scrutinised by Vinnie and then by the group, being mocked as Alex was by Vinnie after the Tossed Salad debate.

Democracy:
government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

Dictator:
a person exercising absolute power, esp. a ruler who has absolute, unrestricted control in a government without hereditary succession.

Ok well i will admit the house looks more like a Democracy than a Dictatorship given the definitions, but Vinnie's agenda is not the good of all, he has already said he likes playing with people. I take that as at least part of his agenda for as you put it "create some structure in the house to eke out limited resources and share out the tasks fairly."

On the subject of Tasks do you think it is fair to ask, ney, brow beat a Granny to jump into a skin coloured leotard and pose for the whole world to see. It may of been her turn to do a task but come on Horses for Courses right?

I'd agree the house is less chaotic with him in charge my point is he is abusing his power.

Ivana is a strong and confident career woman who probably eats tougher guys than Vinnie for breakfast. She hasn't achieved so much in life by being a wimp. I don't think she'd thank you for referring to her simply as a "granny"!.

As for Stephanie demurring to Vinnie's view point, again she has been around the block a few times, and is old enough to be his mother. She seems to respect his views and genuinely like him, and she certainly ain't no shrinking violet. I can't see anyone pushing her around either.

I recall during Corned Beef Gate Vinnie merely stepped back from the situation and let the other HMs find out for themselves what he'd been telling them all along about the food situation.

Vinnie is assertive and has strong opinions but I have still seen no evidence whatsoever of him actually IMPOSING his views on others.