View Full Version : Shame on... this
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 12:56 AM
Stephen was funny, but his views on God are genuine and his religious views should have been respected. It says a lot about certain people that they don't respect the religious views of others. That kind of attitude and lack of tolerance is what breeds extremism and hatred.
Laugh all you want but it's that kind of laughing and intolerance that causes terrorism against intolerant societies.
James
24-01-2010, 01:13 AM
People need to stop making assumptions about the viewers - and the posters on here - based on the housemates they do or don't support.
James
24-01-2010, 01:38 AM
Posts deleted. Back on-topic?
People need to stop making assumptions about the viewers - and the posters on here - based on the housemates they do or don't support.
I absoloutely agree.
Also we don't need to respect others religious beliefs. Not at all. Who says we do?
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 01:51 AM
also we don't need to respect others religious beliefs. Not at all. Who says we do?
rlmao.
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 01:52 AM
Posts deleted. Back on-topic?
The topic being the OP. Thanks James.
rlmao.
Okay then, give me a reason why I should respect others religious beliefs. I don't have to. There is no legal reason as to why I have to. I despise all organised religions and feel no reason to respect it. You want to oppose that?
Girlinstatic
24-01-2010, 01:56 AM
I think we should respect beliefs too. As long as no one is forcing anything in your face, what's the problem? Live and let live!
CaudleHalbard
24-01-2010, 01:56 AM
Stephen "found God" only 8 years ago.
If ever anyone has "the zeal of the converted" it is Stephen. He is totally OTT about his new-found religion rather than just quietly getting on with it AND respecting the fact that not everyone wants his religion thrust in their faces.
That is why he is laughed at - and deservedly so.
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 01:58 AM
I think we should respect beliefs too. As long as no one is forcing anything in your face, what's the problem? Live and let live!
Well said Girlinstatic. That's the point. Respect for the beliefs of others no matter what your faith is. Only someone with no respect for themselves wouldn't understand that.
CaudleHalbard
24-01-2010, 02:00 AM
Stephen is not being laughed at for his beliefs but for his thrusting of them in other people's faces.
There is a BIG difference!
For what he has done he thoroughly deserves to be laughed at!
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 02:02 AM
Stephen "found God" only 8 years ago.
If ever anyone has "the zeal of the converted" it is Stephen. He is totally OTT about his new-found religion rather than just quietly getting on with it AND respecting the fact that not everyone wants his religion thrust in their faces.
That is why he is laughed at - and deservedly so.
The point is not whether Stephen was right to preach or not. And he was funny, but he also doesn't take himself too seriously and that is part of what makes him a good guy.
The point is that certain people have reacted badly to Stephen's Christianity itself. It's as if they are scared of someone like Stephen having such a strong faith. Maybe it just makes them realise the fear they have of having no faith (or anything of their own) to believe in?
Claymores
24-01-2010, 02:02 AM
Stephen "found God" only 8 years ago.
Steven found the American version of AA much much longer ago. If you examime the mantra it is very close to a religion in itself. I believe this is where he got into mindset which led him to be Born Again and quite a fundamentalist.
Well said Girlinstatic. That's the point. Respect for the beliefs of others no matter what your faith is. Only someone with no respect for themselves wouldn't understand that.
Bullshit. The whole reason I despise organised religion is because I have respect for myself. Again, I ask you, on what grounds should we respect others religions? It's fully within my right to not respect what others believe. I don't expect them to respect what I believe.
Why should I respect The Bible, for instance, when it has no respect for some of the things that I believe in? What about that? Why should I respect a faith that has no respect for me?
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 02:06 AM
Steven found the American version of AA much much longer ago. If you examime the mantra it is very close to a religion in itself. I believe this is where he got into mindset which led him to be Born Again and quite a fundamentalist.
This topic is not about what or why Stephen found his faith. It is about why certain people are so afraid of a person with strong faith that they have to deride it.
Even Stephen did funny things to make people laugh. That isn't the point.
Stephen should be admired for having such a strong faith. Especially in a world where many only have 'faith' in their next mobile phone or computer game.
Girlinstatic
24-01-2010, 02:07 AM
Okay then, give me a reason why I should respect others religious beliefs. I don't have to. There is no legal reason as to why I have to. I despise all organised religions and feel no reason to respect it. You want to oppose that?
Sure it's not in the law, but it is just the decent thing to do. No one is asking you to embrace it, but laughing at people because you disagree with something is just immature. I personally don't agree with preaching but Stephen obviously has reason to believe in what he does, and he obviously finds immense comfort in it, why should we poke fun of that!?
This topic is not about what or why Stephen found his faith. It is about why certain people are so afraid of a person with strong faith that they have to deride it.
And who said people fear his faith?
More assumptions.
Assumptions assumptions assumptions.
Your nothing but it.
CaudleHalbard
24-01-2010, 02:08 AM
Steven found the American version of AA much much longer ago. If you examime the mantra it is very close to a religion in itself. I believe this is where he got into mindset which led him to be Born Again and quite a fundamentalist.
A very good point. He probably slipped seamlesly from AA to JC. ;)
The point is that certain people have reacted badly to Stephen's Christianity itself. It's as if they are scared of someone like Stephen having such a strong faith. Maybe it just makes them realise the fear they have of having no faith (or anything of their own) to believe in?
Many Christians have not reacted well to Stephen's behaviour. Evangelism of his type is felt by some to actually bring Christianity into disrepute.
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 02:08 AM
Sure it's not in the law, but it is just the decent thing to do. No one is asking you to embrace it, but laughing at people because you disagree with something is just immature. I personally don't agree with preaching but Stephen obviously has reason to believe in what he does, and he obviously finds immense comfort in it, why should we poke fun of that!?
Thank you Girlinstatic. Couldn't have said it better.
Claymores
24-01-2010, 02:09 AM
Just wsh they'd had a fundamentalist Muslin in - would whack job have made them bless the meals or say amen? Where was the respect for aethiests as well?
Sure it's not in the law, but it is just the decent thing to do. No one is asking you to embrace it, but laughing at people because you disagree with something is just immature. I personally don't agree with preaching but Stephen obviously has reason to believe in what he does, and he obviously finds immense comfort in it, why should we poke fun of that!?
Who said I'm poking fun at it? I just don't respect it. Why should I? Give me a reason why? The Bible has no respect for what I am or what I believe in. Why should I have respect for something I believe to be a fable just because some people believe in it?
I see where you are coming from but I don't have to respect something just because people believe in it, mate.
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 02:10 AM
Many Christians have not reacted well to Stephen's behaviour. Evangelism of his type is felt by some to actually bring Christianity into disrepute.
I wouldn't say 'many', a few may have. But that is just because British people are always a bit less likely to be outwardly showy in their belief's. That is more of a cultural difference rather than their disagreement with his faith.
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 02:13 AM
Who said I'm poking fun at it? I just don't respect it. Why should I? Give me a reason why? The Bible has no respect for what I am or what I believe in. Why should I have respect for something I believe to be a fable just because some people believe in it?
I see where you are coming from but I don't have to respect something just because people believe in it, mate.
Respect for others is about having respect for yourself and the world you live in.
CaudleHalbard
24-01-2010, 02:13 AM
Christians I have spoken to, including churchgoing members of my own family, have generally found Stephen's OTT proselytising rather cringeworthy.
Maybe in the US it is run of the mill, but there are a high proportion of religious nutters over there anyway! Lol! :D
Girlinstatic
24-01-2010, 02:15 AM
Who said I'm poking fun at it? I just don't respect it. Why should I? Give me a reason why? The Bible has no respect for what I am or what I believe in. Why should I have respect for something I believe to be a fable just because some people believe in it?
I see where you are coming from but I don't have to respect something just because people believe in it, mate.
Like I said, I think you should respect the fact that it gives thousands of people all over the world comfort and something to live for. Having a strong belief in something can be empowering and can even drag some people out of the gutter. The bible would comdemn what I am too, but I still am not judgemental to those who have that faith.
Claymores
24-01-2010, 02:16 AM
Respect for others is about having respect for yourself and the world you live in.
So where was the respect for non-believers? People who fundamentally do not believe in afterlife or eternal salvation/damnation but just wish to spend the limited time we have here??????????????
Respect for others is about having respect for yourself and the world you live in.
You made suggestions twenty four hours ago that me and other TiBB members were paedophiles. You have no right whatsoever to talk about respect to me.
You can't make blank statements like that. All style, no substance. Many religious people don't respect me. Not do their beliefs. Why should I respect them? So if somebody declares belief in something I should respect it without question?
Give me a reason why. Please.
I don't respect organised religion. Now give me a definitive reason as to why I should.
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 02:18 AM
Like I said, I think you should respect the fact that it gives thousands of people all over the world comfort and something to live for. Having a strong belief in something can be empowering and can even drag some people out of the gutter. The bible would comdemn what I am too, but I still am not judgemental to those who have that faith.
Exactly right.
And some people should consider that before making comments about Stephen's faith in the CBB house.
Like I said, I think you should respect the fact that it gives thousands of people all over the world comfort and something to live for. Having a strong belief in something can be empowering and can even drag some people out of the gutter. The bible would comdemn what I am too, but I still am not judgemental to those who have that faith.
Why should I respect what they believe in if I think what they believe in is bullshit? That's just lying to them, essentially. Do you see that as being respectful? I know that it gives lots of people comfort, I understand that, but I don't have to respect it. Because I believe it's wrong. And contradicting what I believe is disrespectful to me.
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 02:22 AM
You made suggestions twenty four hours ago that me and other TiBB members were paedophiles. You have no right whatsoever to talk about respect to me.
You can't make blank statements like that. All style, no substance. Many religious people don't respect me. Not do their beliefs. Why should I respect them? So if somebody declares belief in something I should respect it without question?
Give me a reason why. Please.
I don't respect organised religion. Now give me a definitive reason as to why I should.
Because, as I have already said, respect for others is about respect for oneself. If you don't understand why you should respect others then you have a problem with respect for yourself.
Here are two questions for you.
Why can't you respect others just because they think differently to you?
Why do you disrespect others simply because they are different to you?
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 02:24 AM
Why should I respect what they believe in if I think what they believe in is bullshit?That's just lying to them, essentially. Do you see that as being respectful? I know that it gives lots of people comfort, I understand that, but I don't have to respect it. Because I believe it's wrong. And contradicting what I believe is disrespectful to me.
Why the unnecessary use of offensive language Judas? You can disagree without it you know.
Because, as I have already said, respect for others is about respect for oneself. If you don't understand why you should respect others then you have a problem with respect for yourself.
Here are two questions for you.
Why can't you respect others just because they think differently to you?
Why do you disrespect others simply because they are different to you?
Respect for others is not respect for yourself. That's what's called a sweeping statement. Do you respect Stalin's purges because he believed in them? That essentially answers your two questions - which are in fact the one question but phrased differently. Why should I respect in belief systems that don't respect me?
As for my swearing - it is incredibly irrelevant to this discussion. I swear. You don't. Leave it out. I may swear, but I do not suggest that other users of this forum are paedophiles, kid.
Girlinstatic
24-01-2010, 02:33 AM
Why should I respect what they believe in if I think what they believe in is bullshit? That's just lying to them, essentially. Do you see that as being respectful? I know that it gives lots of people comfort, I understand that, but I don't have to respect it. Because I believe it's wrong. And contradicting what I believe is disrespectful to me.
You seem to think that you'd be indulging them by respecting it! It is totally irrelevant if you personally think it's bull or not... Respecting something in my book usually just involves letting people live their life how they wish without passing judgement or making rude comments etc. What's the harm in that?! If they're not interfering in your life, why do it to theirs?
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 02:34 AM
Respect for others is not respect for yourself. That's what's called a sweeping statement. Do you respect Stalin's purges because he believed in them? That essentially answers your two questions - which are in fact the one question but phrased differently. Why should I respect in belief systems that don't respect me?
As for my swearing - it is incredibly irrelevant to this discussion. I swear. You don't. Leave it out. I may swear, but I do not suggest that other users of this forum are paedophiles, kid.
Why the defensiveness? If you don't want to actually reply to my questions then that is your choice. Your fear is obvious. Those who fear are fearful of those who are not.
You should take time to be with your thoughts.
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 02:36 AM
Respecting something in my book usually just involves letting people live their life how they wish without passing judgement or making rude comments etc. What's the harm in that?! If they're not interfering in your life, why do it to theirs?
Which is a good example of why everyone has to be respectful of others, as we all share the same world.
More respect would mean less war, death and suffering.
You seem to think that you'd be indulging them by respecting it! It is totally irrelevant if you personally think it's bull or not... Respecting something in my book usually just involves letting people live their life how they wish without passing judgement or making rude comments etc. What's the harm in that?! If they're not interfering in your life, why do it to theirs?
And why are my interfering in their lives by simply not respecting their beliefs? It's hardly as if I am putting ladders up against churches at night to hang banners saying 'I DNT RESPECT UR BELIEFS' ,is it?
Again, religious beliefs often compromise my beliefs, my respect and my life. Homosexuality was banned here in Ireland for a long time due directly to Catholic beliefs and influence. Abortion is still banned here. I know I am going off the beaten track, but it illustrates organised religions lack of respect for my beliefs.
And you want me to still respect their beliefs based on an invisible superbeing I don't believe in?
Give me a break.
Why the defensiveness? If you don't want to actually reply to my questions then that is your choice. Your fear is obvious. Those who fear are fearful of those who are not.
You should take time to be with your thoughts.
I have replied to your questions. You have not replied to what I have posted. Simple.
This is all starting to get more and more clear ...
Claymores
24-01-2010, 02:39 AM
You seem to think that you'd be indulging them by respecting it! It is totally irrelevant if you personally think it's bull or not... Respecting something in my book usually just involves letting people live their life how they wish without passing judgement or making rude comments etc. What's the harm in that?! If they're not interfering in your life, why do it to theirs?
Not interfering???????????? Baldy was making them say grace for meals and seemed to be inflicting the bible on poor Alex who was the only one too daft to tell him to stop.
If Baldy has his beliefs then fine - I wouldn't inflict my soscialist belefs on anyone unless they were equally interested in a debate.
Or make them sing the Red Flag before tucking into dinner.
I believe Santa Claus exists.
Respect me.
Claymores
24-01-2010, 02:46 AM
I believe Santa Claus exists.
Respect me.
He must have brought you a nice prezzie - I got socks and aftershave! I gonna stop believing in him
He must have brought you a nice prezzie - I got socks and aftershave! I gonna stop believing in him
I will still respect your beliefs :thumbs:.
I believe in the tooth fairy too :hugesmile:.
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 02:48 AM
Not interfering???????????? Baldy was making them say grace for meals and seemed to be inflicting the bible on poor Alex who was the only one too daft to tell him to stop.
Stephen said grace before a couple of meals that's all. And the other HMs did not all say grace with him, he did NOT make them say anything. They said nothing and showed respect while he said grace at the same table. That is how it should be.
Why does it upset you if someone simply wants to say a few words before a meal?
Can't you wait a few seconds to eat while they say what is important to them?
But you think it is OK for you to insist that people at a table with you do NOT say grace - that IS you forcing your 'beliefs' (or lack thereof) on them.
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 02:49 AM
He must have brought you a nice prezzie - I got socks and aftershave! I gonna stop believing in him
That is off topic.
As James said, lets stay on topic shall we.
Tom4784
24-01-2010, 02:51 AM
I'm with Stu here, He's made a much more valid point in this thread then anyone else.
For me personally I don't care for any religion, I think there could be something out there but there's no point in worrying either way as there's no way to prove or disprove it. I like to believe in a greater force as it's a comforting thought but I don't really believe in organised religion. I think respecting beliefs is pointless you might not respect mine but it doesn't make them any less valid in my own mind, All that matters to me is my own mind and resolve why should it matter if people respect that or not?
And why are my interfering in their lives by simply not respecting their beliefs? It's hardly as if I am putting ladders up against churches at night to hang banners saying 'I DNT RESPECT UR BELIEFS' ,is it?
Again, religious beliefs often compromise my beliefs, my respect and my life. Homosexuality was banned here in Ireland for a long time due directly to Catholic beliefs and influence. Abortion is still banned here. I know I am going off the beaten track, but it illustrates organised religions lack of respect for my beliefs.
And you want me to still respect their beliefs based on an invisible superbeing I don't believe in?
Give me a break.
*sigh*
I thought it was me who did not respond to questions?
Tom4784
24-01-2010, 02:51 AM
Ghosty, please stop being anal with the rules and try to actually argue the points instead of dodging them.
Claymores
24-01-2010, 02:52 AM
*sigh*
I thought it was me who did not respond to questions?
Don't get depressed - ask President what to do
Don't get depressed - ask President what to do
You mean Gavin?
You mean President?
I'm confused :bawling:.
CaudleHalbard
24-01-2010, 02:56 AM
Imagine if a Muslim HM (and there have been such) made fellow HMs sit around and, on a daily basis, listen to readings from the Koran... and had also taken an HM (preferably one with limited intellect!) into the snug for some personal Islamic instruction.
Ch4's switchboard would be glowing red-hot with complaints! There would be calls for the Muslim HM to be ejected. ;)
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 02:56 AM
Again, religious beliefs often compromise my beliefs, my respect and my life. Homosexuality was banned here in Ireland for a long time due directly to Catholic beliefs and influence. Abortion is still banned here. I know I am going off the beaten track, but it illustrates organised religions lack of respect for my beliefs.
And you want me to still respect their beliefs based on an invisible superbeing I don't believe in?
Give me a break.
Why do you find it so hard to simply accept that there are many, many people in the world that do not have the same ideas or beliefs as you? And that if you wish to live in the world,(you're 19 years old you said didn't you?) as you get older you have to learn to respect others and their beliefs.
For example, when you have a family and children, you will have to accept, and respect ,their right to have a belief in Christianity if they want. Or would you disown them? Surely not? Don't you already have family members who have differing beliefs? Including in politics - which you mentioned in your post.
You also mention you come from Ireland? Surely then you understand how a lack of respect for religious beliefs and a lack of tolerance is a terrible thing?
Zippy
24-01-2010, 02:57 AM
I don't believe a word Stephen says about anything, frankly. He has a whiff of hypocrisy and insincerity about him.
And the way he kept trying to read Godly meaning into the slightest thing was just hilarious.
Go preach to someone who gives a damn.
Claymores
24-01-2010, 02:57 AM
Ghosty, please stop being anal with the rules and try to actually argue the points instead of dodging them.
Ask Gavin for a prayer meeting to check on forum rules - oops, can't just rely on Ghost with some adjudication by President
CaudleHalbard
24-01-2010, 02:58 AM
I don't believe a word Stephen says about anything, frankly. He has a whiff of hypocrisy and insincerity about him.
And the way he kept trying to read Godly meaning into the slightest thing was just hilarious.
I think this is part of the problem. He is just so unconvincing.
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 02:58 AM
All that matters to me is my own mind and resolve why should it matter if people respect that or not?
Because you live in the world.
Why do you find it so hard to simply accept that there are many, many people in the world that do not have the same ideas or beliefs as you? And that if you wish to live in the world,(you're 19 years old you said didn't you?) as you get older you have to learn to respect others and their beliefs.
For example, when you have a family and children, you will have to accept, and respect ,their right to have a belief in Christianity if they want. Or would you disown them? Surely not? Don't you already have family members who have differing beliefs? Including in politics - which you mentioned in your post.
You also mention you come from Ireland? Surely then you understand how a lack of respect for religious beliefs and a lack of tolerance is a terrible thing?
I do not find it hard to believe many people exist in the world with different beliefs other than my own. It still does not mean I have to respect them. If religious beliefs do not respect my beliefs, why should I respect them? And WHY DO YOU KEEP IGNORING THIS POINT?
Again, I believe in Santa Claus and Stalin believed in the purges. Respect us. Respect us. Respect us.
Girlinstatic
24-01-2010, 03:00 AM
Which is a good example of why everyone has to be respectful of others, as we all share the same world.
More respect would mean less war, death and suffering.
Yes exactly. I am really tired of how many bigots there are floating about, the world would be a much nicer place if people in general were a tad more open-minded about things.
Judas Iscariot, what is your definition of respect, then? I get where you are coming from because I am gay myself, and hold lots of beliefs that Christians and other religions would disagree with also, but I wouldn't be judgemental to someone who choses to believe in the bible, and I would hope that other people wouldn't judge me for the way I live my life or what I believe in also. Respecting something doesn't take anything away from your own personal beliefs, so it astounds me that you begrudge it for others to be honest. I see no rational reason why! I mean, I assume you would like people to respect that you have different beliefs too right!?
Claymores - I agree Stephen was a tad pushy at times, but I didn't get the impression that anyone was particularly bothered by it, even Steph says she'll miss the bible being out. Maybe Alex learnt a few things, who knows!
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 03:01 AM
Ghosty, please stop being anal with the rules and try to actually argue the points instead of dodging them.
Why do you feel the need to be offensive towards someone just because you don't agree with them?
You should look within yourself and ask why you do that a lot.
Claymores
24-01-2010, 03:02 AM
Why do you feel the need to be offensive towards someone just because you don't agree with them?
You should look within yourself and ask why you do that a lot.
Don't take Gavin's bait Dezzy
CaudleHalbard
24-01-2010, 03:02 AM
So, Ghostinthehouse, Girlinstatic etc, would you be perfectly happy if a Muslim HM insisted on:
(a) Reading lengthy bits of the Koran, on a daily basis, to fellow HMs.
(b) Ascribing everything to the will of Allah.
(c) Trying to make Alex into a Muslim.
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 03:05 AM
Imagine if a Muslim HM (and there have been such) made fellow HMs sit around and, on a daily basis, listen to readings from the Koran... and had also taken an HM (preferably one with limited intellect!) into the snug for some personal Islamic instruction.
Ch4's switchboard would be glowing red-hot with complaints! There would be calls for the Muslim HM to be ejected. ;)
No one had a problem with Jermaine Jackson and his discussion on the Koran and he is a muslim. And Jermaine was VERY popular in and out of the house!!!!! So you're argument falls apart there doesnt it. LOL. Jermaine even had his prayer mat and prayed to Allah, and he DID preach to the HMs.
Yes exactly. I am really tired of how many bigots there are floating about, the world would be a much nicer place if people in general were a tad more open-minded about things.
Judas Iscariot, what is your definition of respect, then? I get where you are coming from because I am gay myself, and hold lots of beliefs that Christians and other religions would disagree with also, but I wouldn't be judgemental to someone who choses to believe in the bible, and I would hope that other people wouldn't judge me for the way I live my life or what I believe in also. Respecting something doesn't take anything away from your own personal beliefs, so it astounds me that you begrudge it for others to be honest. I see no rational reason why! I mean, I assume you would like people to respect that you have different beliefs too right!?
Claymores - I agree Stephen was a tad pushy at times, but I didn't get the impression that anyone was particularly bothered by it, even Steph says she'll miss the bible being out. Maybe Alex learnt a few things, who knows!
Respecting organised religion does take away from my personal beliefs. If I respect someone for something I don't believe in and something that goes against what I am then that does compromise my beliefs and integrity. Simple as. Surely you can see that? I certainly respect you for being upstanding about this unlike Closet Christian #7823.
I believe in respect but to be perfectly honest - I don't figure organised religion into it. Why should I? It's such an abstract grey area without any definitive proof. Hence the word 'faith'.
Godwins law, I know, but do you respect Hitler's beliefs?
Jack_
24-01-2010, 03:08 AM
I think 'accept' is the word people are looking for here. You don't have to respect anything, just accept it, and move on.
I think 'accept' is the word people are looking for here. You don't have to respect anything, just accept it, and move on.
EXACTLY.
Jack just killed this entire debate with one line.
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 03:10 AM
Originally Posted by Ghostinthehouse
Why do you find it so hard to simply accept that there are many, many people in the world that do not have the same ideas or beliefs as you? And that if you wish to live in the world,(you're 19 years old you said didn't you?) as you get older you have to learn to respect others and their beliefs.
For example, when you have a family and children, you will have to accept, and respect ,their right to have a belief in Christianity if they want. Or would you disown them? Surely not? Don't you already have family members who have differing beliefs? Including in politics - which you mentioned in your post.
You also mention you come from Ireland? Surely then you understand how a lack of respect for religious beliefs and a lack of tolerance is a terrible thing?
I do not find it hard to believe many people exist in the world with different beliefs other than my own. It still does not mean I have to respect them.If religious beliefs do not respect my beliefs, why should I respect them?
Notice how you conveniently ignored everything in the post you 'replied to'.
It obvious that you also are defensive of the beliefs of others as you are insecure in your own beliefs. That is common in those who are not sure of themselves.
Fear is bad for you Judas. Let go of your fear.
Claymores
24-01-2010, 03:11 AM
I think 'accept' is the word people are looking for here. You don't have to respect anything, just accept it, and move on.
Are you playing voice of reason?!
Notice how you conveniently ignored everything in the post you 'replied to'.
It obvious that you also are defensive of the beliefs of others as you are insecure in your own beliefs. That is common in those who are not sure of themselves.
Fear is bad for you Judas. Let go of your fear.
And so you have outed yourself as a troll.
Well, it was fun whilst it lasted, but I am ignoring you from now on. Welcome to the ignore list ...
Jack_
24-01-2010, 03:13 AM
EXACTLY.
Jack just killed this entire debate with one line.
Are you playing voice of reason?!
:hugesmile:
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 03:13 AM
EXACTLY.
Jack just killed this entire debate with one line.
Why does the debate cause you to overreact like that?
No debate is 'killed' by one person's disagreement. That is just silly. lol.
Debate is ABOUT differing opinions. A differing opinion sparks debate. LOL.
Not when it's something as simple as a misuse of terminology.
I accept Creationists beliefs, for example. I know what they believe.
I do not, however, respect them. And have no obligation to.
Jack one.
You zero.
Girlinstatic
24-01-2010, 03:18 AM
So, Ghostinthehouse, Girlinstatic etc, would you be perfectly happy if a Muslim HM insisted on:
(a) Reading lengthy bits of the Koran, on a daily basis, to fellow HMs.
(b) Ascribing everything to the will of Allah.
(c) Trying to make Alex into a Muslim.
(A) Yes if the housemates didn't seem bothered, and had the choice not to listen if they didn't wish to.
(B) Sure, since you don't have to believe it or anything. I would certainly listen to what they had to say without being rude or laughing.
(C) If Alex didn't mind then sure why not.
Alex has free will to get up and/or say no for himself, oui? He has his own mind! Also he let Stevie B believe he was interested, he even said at one point that he found it interesting! What's wrong with that?
And I respect anyones beliefs, I may not agree... and I may even be against, but if they want to believe something then it's not my place to judge or make sneering comments.
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 03:19 AM
So, Ghostinthehouse, Girlinstatic etc, would you be perfectly happy if a Muslim HM insisted on:
(a) Reading lengthy bits of the Koran, on a daily basis, to fellow HMs.
Jermaine Jackson quoted the Koran, and discussed it with HMs all the time. Why should there be a problem with that? They are free consenting adults.
(b) Ascribing everything to the will of Allah.
So what if he did? EVERYONE has free will to choose to believe him/her or not.
(c) Trying to make Alex into a Muslim.
Again, Alex is a free consenting adult it is not up to YOU or anyone to say he can't hear what a muslim or otherwise has to say.
Now, Caudle. I have answered your three questions, now YOU answer your three questions saying why you wouldn't be happy about those things.
Jack_
24-01-2010, 03:20 AM
The 'respect others beliefs' argument is essentially to make the world a better place. Now, if we're all 'accepting' others beliefs, we are not insulting them, nor wanting them to die or anything of the sort, just accepting them, and moving on. That still makes the world 'a better place'.
Hitler believed in the holocaust. Respect his beliefs.
Both Godwin's law and cliched to hell, but in the context of this thread ... well ... respect him!
Religion is not accepting or respectful of many others beliefs ...
Jack_
24-01-2010, 03:24 AM
Hitler believed in the holocaust. Respect his beliefs.
:joker:
This pretty much does what my point did, renders the term 'respect' pointless.
It really, really does, Any argument against it is just convoluted point dodging. Hitler believed in something. Should we respect that?
End. Of. ****ing. Story.
Ghostinthehouse
24-01-2010, 03:32 AM
[Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot
Hitler believed in the holocaust. Respect his beliefs./QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Jack_;2910984]:joker:
This pretty much does what my point did, renders the term 'respect' pointless.
RLMAO.
You assume that because Hitler existed that respect is pointless. That is hilarious.
InOne
24-01-2010, 03:36 AM
Religion is a joke. I'll never respect it, I urge theists to actually read their own holy books properly. Religion is there to be laughed at, not respected, it is for the weak minded and those who wish to be taken advantage of, I pity them. Actually **** it, I laugh at them :)
headaball
24-01-2010, 03:37 AM
_DZ3_obMXwU
Jack_
24-01-2010, 03:38 AM
[QUOTE][Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot
Hitler believed in the holocaust. Respect his beliefs./QUOTE]
RLMAO.
You assume that because Hitler existed that respect is pointless. That is hilarious.
Well you've just dodged points in this entire debate with Stu so I'm certainly not getting into one with you myself. But it's pointless in the context of this debate and in reference to the point Stu made.
Girlinstatic
24-01-2010, 03:40 AM
The 'respect others beliefs' argument is essentially to make the world a better place. Now, if we're all 'accepting' others beliefs, we are not insulting them, nor wanting them to die or anything of the sort, just accepting them, and moving on. That still makes the world 'a better place'.
Okay maybe we have all been arguing over the wrong word. But accepting, is in a way respecting anyway right? You're aknowledging that other beliefs exist and other people live their life by them - for whatever reason, and continuing to let them live a peaceful life without insulting or doing anything that could be considered offensive. To me that is respecting anyway? In the dictionary under respect there is this:
"to refrain from intruding upon or interfering with"
As one of the definitions, and that is specifically what I was talking about.
Okay maybe we have all been arguing over the wrong word. But accepting, is in a way respecting anyway right? You're aknowledging that other beliefs exist and other people live their life by them - for whatever reason, and continuing to let them live a peaceful life without insulting or doing anything that could be considered offensive. To me that is respecting anyway? In the dictionary under respect there is this:
"to refrain from intruding upon or interfering with"
As one of the definitions, and that is specifically what I was talking about.
Oh come on. You can't honestly say 'respecting' and 'accepting' are the same thing.
Accepting = Acknowledging something exists.
Respecting = Respecting this thing.
I do not respect organised religion. I do, however, realise that it exists.
InOne hit the nail on the head.
Also, it appears I was wrong in an early post stating no law ties me to respecting other beliefs. Believe it or not we have a blasphemy law in Ireland now. YouTube if you don't believe me. So believe it or not, me saying God is a dummy is actually breaking the law!
InOne
24-01-2010, 03:51 AM
Girlinstatic just seems like a middle class PC byatch D:
Claymores
24-01-2010, 03:54 AM
Girlinstatic just seems like a middle class PC byatch D:
I love - shut lines :joker:
headaball
24-01-2010, 03:55 AM
Girlinstatic just seems like a middle class PC byatch D:
Politically incorrect comments are allowed on here unless you insult the poofters, then you're ****ed.
Girlinstatic
24-01-2010, 04:10 AM
Girlinstatic just seems like a middle class PC byatch D:
Incorrect.
And yes, Judas Iscariot, I think that by that definition I pointed out, they somewhat merge/cross. Not that I even care - what Jack put forward about accepting is all I would want from anyone, anyway.
InOne
24-01-2010, 04:12 AM
Politically incorrect comments are allowed on here unless you insult the poofters, then you're ****ed.
Good job shes new then. I just feel anyone sticking up for religion deserves a slap.
Claymores
24-01-2010, 04:14 AM
Good job shes new then. I just feel anyone sticking up for religion deserves a slap.
Excellent quote
Incorrect.
And yes, Judas Iscariot, I think that by that definition I pointed out, they somewhat merge/cross. Not that I even care - what Jack put forward about accepting is all I would want from anyone, anyway.
Fair enough, we have a compromise, then :thumbs:.
Definitions are a dangerous business on forums LOL.
headaball
24-01-2010, 04:21 AM
Good job shes new then. I just feel anyone sticking up for religion deserves a slap.
I was gonna defend Steve because I like him but my mind isn't functioning properly and I couldn't be bothered.
InOne
24-01-2010, 04:25 AM
I was gonna defend Steve because I like him but my mind isn't functioning properly and I couldn't be bothered.
There is no way to defend him :)
headaball
24-01-2010, 04:31 AM
There is no way to defend him :)
There's lots of ways. One being Stevie B is better than you and you're opinion of him is equal to donkey poo.
InOne
24-01-2010, 04:33 AM
There's lots of ways. One being Stevie B is better than you and you're opinion of him is equal to donkey poo.
I don't consider a theist to be better than me, especially Baldwin.
setanta
24-01-2010, 04:36 AM
That was a fun, if slightly frustrating read. Well done lads.
headaball
24-01-2010, 04:36 AM
I don't consider a theist to be better than me, especially Baldwin.
What about Martin Luther King then?
InOne
24-01-2010, 04:38 AM
What about Martin Luther King then?
What about him??
headaball
24-01-2010, 04:39 AM
What about him??
He was a theist, are you better than him?
headaball
24-01-2010, 04:40 AM
just coz MLK was a cristian u hav to respec the faith lol
... at least I assume that's what he is getting at.
Even if MLK did take his inspiration from religion - does that mean he or it was right?
Hell no.
Wrong.
InOne
24-01-2010, 04:40 AM
He was a theist, are you better than him?
What would make me worse than him?
headaball
24-01-2010, 04:42 AM
What would make me worse than him?
Answer the question.
InOne
24-01-2010, 04:46 AM
Answer the question.
That is the thing, his motives were not just religious but political, alot more political that religious, so in terms on a none delusional mind yes, but as in a icon and revolutionist to black people in america, no...
setanta
24-01-2010, 04:48 AM
I honestly don't think it was worth answering that particular question Joseph.
InOne
24-01-2010, 04:49 AM
I answered it ridiculously well
headaball
24-01-2010, 04:49 AM
That is the thing, his motives were not just religious but political, alot more political that religious, so in terms on a none delusional mind yes, but as in a icon and revolutionist to black people in america, no...
So you're wrong then, a theist can be better than you. That wasn't hard now was it?
InOne
24-01-2010, 04:50 AM
So you're wrong then, a theist can be better than you. That wasn't hard now was it?
Depends on the context...
headaball
24-01-2010, 04:50 AM
I honestly don't think it was worth answering that particular question Joseph.
Too late. :xyxwave:
Again, Just because MLK was motivated by religious beliefs it does not mean those beliefs were correct. Or that we have to respect them.
Nice to see headball is being an upstanding ... prick ... about this all.
setanta
24-01-2010, 04:51 AM
Depends on the context...
You're enjoying this, aren't you?
InOne
24-01-2010, 04:53 AM
You're enjoying this, aren't you?
It's funny to see political and religious views be separated and then realise the person was not actually looking from the religious view at all...
InOne
24-01-2010, 04:54 AM
Again, Just because MLK was motivated by religious beliefs it does not mean those beliefs were correct. Or that we have to respect them.
Nice to see headball is being an upstanding ... prick ... about this all.
MLK motives were far more political than religious, utter fact! lol
headaball
24-01-2010, 04:57 AM
Again, Just because MLK was motivated by religious beliefs it does not mean those beliefs were correct. Or that we have to respect them.
Nice to see headball is being an upstanding ... prick ... about this all.
Put your handbag away you bitch. :joker:
I was arguing InOne's point that a theist can't be better than him which is complete shite and I really do pity anyone who agrees with him on that.
setanta
24-01-2010, 04:57 AM
It's funny to see political and religious views be separated and then realise the person was not actually looking from the religious view at all...
Think the question was totally irrelevent to the topic at hand and it's crazy to reduce something like religion onto an individual scale through comparison, which is actually not what the discussion was about in the first place. Fecking crazy logic going on here and highlights how personally religious people take any belittling of their faith.
Claymores
24-01-2010, 05:00 AM
I'm a socialist with no religion or conception of the afterlife and would prefer people to believe in their fellow human beings and make the best we can for each other with the limited time we each have alive. So people as Steven deeply irritate me, but I can't be assed defending the position as it's 5 am annd Vikings play in 14 hours.
InOne
24-01-2010, 05:00 AM
Ok, I believe nobody on this planet is better than me, to say so would be ridiculous. Not as an egotistical point of view, but why would I say anyone is better than me, that I do not even know?
Put your handbag away you bitch. :joker:
I was arguing InOne's point that a theist can't be better than him which is complete shite and I really do pity anyone who agrees with him on that.
Masterclass in irony, tonight ... :laugh2: ...
headaball
24-01-2010, 05:01 AM
I wasn't looking at it that way at all actually, but an interesting point.
Think the question was totally irrelevent to the topic at hand and it's crazy to reduce something like religion onto an indidivual scale through comparison, which is actually not what the discussion was about in the first place. Fecking crazy logic going on here and highlights how personally religious people take any belittling of their faith.
The only thing that has been highlighted here is you're a judgemental little so and so. I'm not religious.
headaball
24-01-2010, 05:03 AM
Ok, I believe nobody on this planet is better than me, to say so would be ridiculous. Not as an egotistical point of view, but why would I say anyone is better than me, that I do not even know?
You made the point that a theist in particular cannot be better than you though. Nice try.
InOne
24-01-2010, 05:04 AM
You made the point that a theist in particular cannot be better than you though. Nice try.
A theist can't be better than me, I don't need to make a point, i'm saying it lol
setanta
24-01-2010, 05:06 AM
The only thing that has been highlighted here is you're a judgemental little so and so. I'm not religious.
Wow, that's even more interesting. So why did you feel the need to go off on such a tangent with your line of questioning, which had only the slightest of connections with the discussion that preceeded it?
headaball
24-01-2010, 05:08 AM
A theist can't be better than me, I don't need to make a point, i'm saying it lol
You just said MLK can be better than you a few comments up. What a simpleton. :joker:
Claymores
24-01-2010, 05:08 AM
Organised religions have caused so many conflicts and persecutions - why cant people see you've got yer few years alive - get on with making a difference or just using your existence. Steven was a purveyor of evil to me in many ways- the daughter against machine gun was a classic example of delusional/wrong thinking
InOne
24-01-2010, 05:11 AM
You just said MLK can be better than you a few comments up. What a simpleton. :joker:
In context as what humans would percieve as better, but as I pointed out in my mind, nobody is better. You should read more mate :)
So, to clarify, in my opinion, no theist, or even person is better than me.
headaball
24-01-2010, 05:23 AM
In context as what humans would percieve as better, but as I pointed out in my mind, nobody is better. You should read more mate :)
So, to clarify, in my opinion, no theist, or even person is better than me.
I should read more? Good grief. You made a silly statement and you couldn't back it up. That's all there is to it.
InOne
24-01-2010, 05:25 AM
I should read more? Good grief. You made a silly statement and you couldn't back it up. That's all there is to it.
I meant read into what I typed more. I gave you the blunt opinion that is that. Discussion over.
headaball
24-01-2010, 05:32 AM
I meant read into what I typed more. I gave you the blunt opinion that is that. Discussion over.
I think you need to read into what you type yourself. And It was anything but blunt, you done so much twisting of your own words that I doubt you even know what the **** you're talking about.
InOne
24-01-2010, 05:37 AM
I think you need to read into what you type yourself. And It was anything but blunt, you done so much twisting of your own words that I doubt you even know what the **** you're talking about.
Wondered how long it would take you to swear.
headaball
24-01-2010, 05:43 AM
Wondered how long it would take you to swear.
Why?
InOne
24-01-2010, 05:47 AM
Why?
Dunno, when people seem to get towards the end of a debate they seem to swear lol
headaball
24-01-2010, 05:55 AM
Dunno, when people seem to get towards the end of a debate they seem to swear lol
I did swear in the middle of the debate unless shite is no longer a swear word.
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2911220&postcount=110
I do usually swear alot, in debates or just making regular comments so it's unsual that I'd only swear twice in so many comments.
InOne
24-01-2010, 06:02 AM
I did swear in the middle of the debate unless shite is no longer a swear word.
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2911220&postcount=110
I do usually swear alot, in debates or just making regular comments so it's unsual that I'd only swear twice in so many comments.
Ok o.O
Claymores
24-01-2010, 06:40 AM
OH FFS - ths was troll started (member wth multipe IDs) we all cottened on and sropped bting
Claymores
24-01-2010, 06:42 AM
Handbags at 40 paces boys?
Angus
24-01-2010, 08:38 AM
Well said Girlinstatic. That's the point. Respect for the beliefs of others no matter what your faith is. Only someone with no respect for themselves wouldn't understand that.
Stephen showed no respect for any one else's beliefs when he was pontificating 24/7 (and often twisting biblical interpetations to suit his current sermon) so please don't have the audacity to criticise people who got pissed off with it.
Ever heard the expression "Methinks he doth protest too much"? Religious zealots are usually desperate people who need other's ideas and ideology to fill the void of their own empty lives. I don't respect the views of the zealots and fanatics that perpetrate terrorism , hatred and racial division in the name of their god.
I like Stephen but reserve the right to laugh my socks off at him when he comes out with ridiculous interpretations and analogies from the bible. Such selective interpretations are the hallmark of the zealot and command no respect from others.
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