Gordon Brown - worst prime minister ever?

[Angus]

Unelected, morally bankrupt, an accomplice of Blair's in the illegal Iraqi War, he has taken this country to the brink of disaster due to his party's obsession with mass immigration and multiculturalism, and to the brink of bankruptcy due to massive borrowing. In charge of a corrupt and self serving band of cronies caught with their hands in the till. He refuses to step down, refuses to call an election until he is forced to and clings on to power for dear life. He puts his ego ahead of the good of this country. I cannot think of one redeeming quality that he possesses.

HE HAS TO GO:devil:

[arista]

Unelected, morally bankrupt, an accomplice of Blair's in the illegal Iraqi War, he has taken this country to the brink of disaster due to his party's obsession with mass immigration and multiculturalism, and to the brink of bankruptcy due to massive borrowing. In charge of a corrupt and self serving band of cronies caught with their hands in the till. He refuses to step down, refuses to call an election until he is forced to and clings on to power for dear life. He puts his ego ahead of the good of this country. I cannot think of one redeeming quality that he possesses.

HE HAS TO GO:devil:



Bang On Right

[Firewire]

Well David Cameron will be worse.

[Shaun]

nah. Ted Heath.

[Tom]

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/02_02/thatcherMOS240207_228x315.jpg

only female Prime Minister. Coincidence? :joker:

[Jack_]

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/02_02/thatcherMOS240207_228x315.jpg

only female Prime Minister. Coincidence? :joker:

Someone's going to kill you :laugh2:

[Shaun]

Yeah. Me.

She's one of the best.

[Tom]

Someone's going to kill you :laugh2:

A Maggie lover or our Womens Institute friend?

[Jack_]

A Maggie lover or our Womens Institute friend?

The latter :joker:

[arista]

Well David Cameron will be worse.


Wrong
He will save this Nation.

[Tom]

Yeah. Me.

She's one of the best.

apart from the fact she basically said "****** the North" and put us into a pointless war over an island noone cares about and one that we didn't need to. Fantastic woman she was.

[Tom]

The latter :joker:

Oh I've already had it off her today for calling Katia from CBB a slut but I thought it was OK for John Terry to sleep around :joker:

[InOne]

apart from the fact she basically said "****** the North" and put us into a pointless war over an island noone cares about and one that we didn't need to. Fantastic woman she was.

Yep she messed us up good and proper. She created the sub working class that don't work at all. So now you have kids Grandparents that were on the dole.

[Shaun]

apart from the fact she basically said "****** the North" and put us into a pointless war over an island noone cares about and one that we didn't need to. Fantastic woman she was.

The Falklands...ah right. So we should have just let the people who live there be invaded by Argentina? They wanted to stay British, so we had every right to fight off the invasion.

As for '**** the north' - is this with regard to her opposition of trade unions? Because before her intervention they were able to hold a complete standstill over the economy and energy resources, above Parliamentary power. It's thanks to her that we don't get frozen every time a bunch of employees throw a hissy fit.

[Firewire]

Wrong
He will save this Nation.

No. He's all for the rich and not for the poor, or middle-class may I add.

[Tom]

The Falklands...ah right. So we should have just let the people who live there be invaded by Argentina? They wanted to stay British, so we had every right to fight off the invasion.

As for '**** the north' - is this with regard to her opposition of trade unions? Because before her intervention they were able to hold a complete standstill over the economy and energy resources, above Parliamentary power. It's thanks to her that we don't get frozen every time a bunch of employees throw a hissy fit.

Well basically it was clear that she didn't like the north and shut down the mines etc- the north hasn't actually recovered from that and I doubt it ever will.

[Angus]

At least other Prime Ministers, good or bad, were ELECTED by the public, we had the choice to vote or not on who we wanted to lead this country. Brown on the other hand was simply handed the post by Blair as if it were his to give. What *****ing audacity and arrogance to bypass the electorate altogether because of some pact the two of them made years ago. Talk about going from dumb to dumber!

[Angus]

Well David Cameron will be worse.

NO, You don't know that. Nobody could be any worse, and what's more we have the evidence of Brown's crap leadership all around us. I really find it incredible that people are still intending to vote this government back in when they have practically destroyed this country.:nono: Another four years of New Labour and Brown will finish the job, then swan off abroad leaving us all in the ****.

In case you hadn't noticed Cameron isn't the only alternative, but to be honest I would rather see ANY other party in power so long as New Labour are kicked out.

[arista]

NO, You don't know that. Nobody could be any worse, and what's more we have the evidence of Brown's crap leadership all around us. I really find it incredible that people are still intending to vote this government back in when they have practically destroyed this country.:nono: Another four years of New Labour and Brown will finish the job, then swan off abroad leaving us all in the ****.

In case you hadn't noticed Cameron isn't the only alternative, but to be honest I would rather see ANY other party in power so long as New Labour are kicked out.


Bang On Right

[Tom]

NO, You don't know that. Nobody could be any worse, and what's more we have the evidence of Brown's crap leadership all around us. I really find it incredible that people are still intending to vote this government back in when they have practically destroyed this country.:nono: Another four years of New Labour and Brown will finish the job, then swan off abroad leaving us all in the ****.

In case you hadn't noticed Cameron isn't the only alternative, but to be honest I would rather see ANY other party in power so long as New Labour are kicked out.

wow ... you're like arista's wet dream

[InOne]

Well, the country can't get any worse???? Can it???

[Shaun]

Well basically it was clear that she didn't like the north and shut down the mines etc- the north hasn't actually recovered from that and I doubt it ever will.

That's a bit of a vague assertion. Poverty in the North still happens but not to the degree it was at in the 70s/early 80s.

[Tom]

That's a bit of a vague assertion. Poverty in the North still happens but not to the degree it was at in the 70s/early 80s.

But the rich/poor divide is growing even more than it was back then. The working class has pretty much gone, you're now pretty much either in sub working class or at the very least you're 'lower' middle class. I know its happening everywhere but closing the mines was a catalyst for the benefits culture. There are a lot of older men who didn't find work after the mines closed down because they were too old to change career and noone wanted to employ them. In many families its something that has been passed down, the thought that they can't do anything else.

[Angus]

But the rich/poor divide is growing even more than it was back then. The working class has pretty much gone, you're now pretty much either in sub working class or at the very least you're 'lower' middle class. I know its happening everywhere but closing the mines was a catalyst for the benefits culture. There are a lot of older men who didn't find work after the mines closed down because they were too old to change career and noone wanted to employ them. In many families its something that has been passed down, the thought that they can't do anything else.


You're right about the rich/poor divide growing even more, and the irony is that this has happened faster and more widespread under New Labour than the previous Tory governments. New Labour's manifesto when they first came to power was to eliminate poverty, instead of which it has increased exponentially. The tragedy is that there are young people in their twenties who have NEVER had a job, what hope is there for them?

[ILoveTRW]

hell yeah, who wants an fat ugly mongoloid bastard running our country

[ILoveTRW]

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/02_02/thatcherMOS240207_228x315.jpg


best prime minister ever

[Shasown]

Well basically it was clear that she didn't like the north and shut down the mines etc- the north hasn't actually recovered from that and I doubt it ever will.

She didnt close down the mines, lack of orders, bad management, during the miners strike some mines were allowed to fall into disrepair. Lots of mines would have closed anyway as they were at the time economically unviable.

If you want to know what really screwed up the coal industry look at Uncle Arthur and the leadership of the NUM, flogging a dead horse. Not allowing the industry to be slimmed down into something that could have survived. Miners out on strike living on handouts, yet Arthur and co had practically a millionaires lifestyle. In fact he is still living a good life on his NUM pension. True representation.

[ILoveTRW]

Well basically it was clear that she didn't like the north and shut down the mines etc- the north hasn't actually recovered from that and I doubt it ever will.

she did a great deal for the north, she actually got agriculture back on its feet and closing down the mines this the best thing that she could of done.

[Tom]

She didnt close down the mines, lack of orders, bad management, during the miners strike some mines were allowed to fall into disrepair. Lots of mines would have closed anyway as they were at the time economically unviable.

If you want to know what really screwed up the coal industry look at Uncle Arthur and the leadership of the NUM, flogging a dead horse. Not allowing the industry to be slimmed down into something that could have survived. Miners out on strike living on handouts, yet Arthur and co had practically a millionaires lifestyle. In fact he is still living a good life on his NUM pension. True representation.

I get some were unviable, its the same in all businesses. But there was no need for it to be completely closed. She should have found a solution.

she did a great deal for the north, she actually got agriculture back on its feet and closing down the mines this the best thing that she could of done.

Agriculture affects a very small part of the north because most of it is industrial.

[Shasown]

I get some were unviable, its the same in all businesses. But there was no need for it to be completely closed. She should have found a solution.


She had a solution that would have worked, no strike, back to work, allow uneconomic collieries to be closed down. Rebuild the reputation of the NCB(National Coal Board) for fulfilling orders reliably. And allow it to compete in the market of the time.

The NCB could have marketed themselves to prospective buyers the quality of their product over cheaper German Imports.

And that is the real reason the mining industry collapsed in this country: Cheaper German Imports. Which funnily enough managed to provide the coal requested on time unlike our coal industry that had one little strike after another from 1974 courtesy of our Arthur and co. (and to think I even voted that twat in as president ah well hindsight is 20/20)

[BB_Eye]

She didnt close down the mines, lack of orders, bad management, during the miners strike some mines were allowed to fall into disrepair. Lots of mines would have closed anyway as they were at the time economically unviable.

And the reason for this was the outsourcing of our coal-mining industry to foreign countries brought about by Thatcher's economic reforms. As a result we have become dependent on imported fossil fuels and fell into a trade deficit from which we might never recover.

If you want to know what really screwed up the coal industry look at Uncle Arthur and the leadership of the NUM, flogging a dead horse. Not allowing the industry to be slimmed down into something that could have survived. Miners out on strike living on handouts, yet Arthur and co had practically a millionaires lifestyle. In fact he is still living a good life on his NUM pension. True representation.

Scargill is just about the most extreme, militant example of a British trade unionist you could have mentioned. Nobody is saying unions should be given the clout they enjoyed back in the 1970's, but it's not too much to ask that an employer isn't given carte blanche over making large sections of his workforce redundant whenever he pleases. If this were an indigenous industry such as coalmining, the government would have offered its support before Thatcher made our industries subordinate to the whims of the global market without considering the inevitable trade deficit and of course the social consequences.

[Shasown]

And the reason for this was the outsourcing of our coal-mining industry to foreign countries brought about by Thatcher's economic reforms. As a result we have become dependent on imported fossil fuels and fell into a trade deficit from which we might never recover.

Lack of reinvestment made over the previous three or four decades, smaller wildcat strikes, secondary picketing, the NUM leadership pulling the miners out in support of other industries in dispute, all meant the NCB couldnt meet orders, so where were powers staions etc meant to buy coal to burn for electricity?

I dont know if you were around in the seventies, but the unions while helping bring about fantastic changes in health and safety, standards of living etc. also did a lot of damage to Britain's market economy.

Scargill is just about the most extreme, militant example of a British trade unionist you could have mentioned. Nobody is saying unions should be given the clout they enjoyed back in the 1970's, but it's not too much to ask that an employer isn't given carte blanche over making large sections of his workforce redundant whenever he pleases.

Thats the nature of the beast though isnt it? If its unviable do you continue to pump public money into supporting something that may be better off dying a death. Something has to give and at the time there were also problems with the Steel Industry, Motor Industry, Shipbuilding, Air Transport, Aircraft Building, the list goes on and on.

Protectionist policies that some political and union leaders advocated at the time would have simply drained the national economy, worse than Tony and Gordy have done over the last few years.

[sooty]

Well, the country can't get any worse???? Can it???

I am quite concerned about that.

If any other party took over, they have to deal with these huge debts, it means a large scale of spendign cut. It has not started yet.

The country might feel the new goverment is worse than the previous one.

[eye sea]

Yet he still might win the election!

[DrunkerThanMoses]

I rather him in power then that dickhead David Cameron

[BB_Eye]

I rather him in power then that dickhead David Cameron

Don't let that be a reason for voting for him in the election. Both of them are awful on balance.

[Angus]

I rather him in power then that dickhead David Cameron

There ARE other parties to vote for unless you think Brown IS the best option out of all of them?:shocked:

[Jessica.]

He is a prize eejit! As bad as our Brian Cowan :bored:

[DrunkerThanMoses]

There ARE other parties to vote for unless you think Brown IS the best option out of all of them?:shocked:

ANd waste on a vote, the Labour and Tories are the only running Parties that have a chance to win a election. Im a lib dem supporter, but can you see them gettign enough votes, I think not.

[BB_Eye]

ANd waste on a vote, the Labour and Tories are the only running Parties that have a chance to win a election. Im a lib dem supporter, but can you see them gettign enough votes, I think not.

You have to think of it as if it were a categorical imperative. If everyone voted for an underdog party like the Lib Dems, they would get into power. Sadly we are in this chicken and egg situation where people aren't voting for them because they don't have a chance they don't have a chance because people aren't voting.

[arista]

ANd waste on a vote, the Labour and Tories are the only running Parties that have a chance to win a election. Im a lib dem supporter, but can you see them gettign enough votes, I think not.


Of course LibDem are more United with the Conservatives.

Which is good for a 2 party control.


Making sure Stinking Corrupt New Labour are burried 100 feet under.

[Tom4784]

In the case of Brown and Cameron, It's better the devil you know. The history of the Conservatives should be enough to put anyone off them.

[arista]

In the case of Brown and Cameron, It's better the devil you know. The history of the Conservatives should be enough to put anyone off them.


This time its the History of Stinking New Labour
that has put the Public off.


It Is Time For Change.



Conservatives are giving rights to you in your home
against intruders.


The Conservatives are Our Future.


Utter Fact.

[Tom4784]

This time its the History of Stinking New Labour
that has put the Public off.


It Is Time For Change.



Conservatives are giving rights to you in your home
against intruders.


The Conservatives are Our Future.


Utter Fact.

Anyone stupid enough to vote for the tories will deserve what they get, once they get into power ,they'll do what they've always done and neglect the majoirty of the UK to focus on the rich.

[arista]

Anyone stupid enough to vote for the tories will deserve what they get, once they get into power ,they'll do what they've always done and neglect the majoirty of the UK to focus on the rich.


Anyone Stupid enough to Vote Stinking New Labour
is a Wasted Vote.



It is Time For Change

[BB_Eye]

I expect more boom and bust economics, more unemployment, lots of banned movies and videogames, declining conditions in colleges and universities and a further decline in social mobility when the Tories get into power.

The only thing I am looking forward to is seeing police back on the streets and doing proper policework and even that is a maybe if the Tories continue in their obsession with cracking down on drugs.

[Captain.Remy]

And me who thought Berlusconi and Sarkozy weren't popular...I guess I found worse.

[arista]

"The only thing I am looking forward to is seeing police back on the streets "



Yes it is a Change for Good.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Thatcher...the root of all evil

[NettoSuperstar!]

The Falklands...ah right. So we should have just let the people who live there be invaded by Argentina? They wanted to stay British, so we had every right to fight off the invasion.

As for '**** the north' - is this with regard to her opposition of trade unions? Because before her intervention they were able to hold a complete standstill over the economy and energy resources, above Parliamentary power. It's thanks to her that we don't get frozen every time a bunch of employees throw a hissy fit.

hissy fit! lol...she shat on the working classes from a great height and left them high and dry! She is partly the reason the banks and the greedy have left us in the mess we're in now!...dont get me started on poll tax!... she created a society where the individual and money matters more than community and people...and it will turn round and bite us in the ass everytime

[BB_Eye]

Lack of reinvestment made over the previous three or four decades, smaller wildcat strikes, secondary picketing, the NUM leadership pulling the miners out in support of other industries in dispute, all meant the NCB couldnt meet orders, so where were powers staions etc meant to buy coal to burn for electricity?

I dont know if you were around in the seventies, but the unions while helping bring about fantastic changes in health and safety, standards of living etc. also did a lot of damage to Britain's market economy.

Some valid points here. I am not old enough to remember the 1970's, but I live in an area that has suffered the consequences of the political upheaval of the 1980's. My town is a shadow of its former self. Most of its working class earned a living as labourers and mine workers. Their livelihood was taken away when their limited skills no longer served any purpose and the mines were forced to close down. Many are still unemployed and my own generation has had a far more difficult time climbing the social ladder than those their parents' age.

You may not believe it, but I don't see the Tory supporters or members as the villains of the late 70's, early 80's. People had their reasons for hating the unions and Thatcher was the only direct challenge to them. I just don't agree with the alternative she offered.

Thats the nature of the beast though isnt it? If its unviable do you continue to pump public money into supporting something that may be better off dying a death. Something has to give and at the time there were also problems with the Steel Industry, Motor Industry, Shipbuilding, Air Transport, Aircraft Building, the list goes on and on.

Protectionist policies that some political and union leaders advocated at the time would have simply drained the national economy, worse than Tony and Gordy have done over the last few years.

At the very least, we would have been self-sufficient and society wouldn't have been put in jeopardy by mass unemployment. Britain's tightly regulated, highly taxed economy should have been somewhat streamlined, not smashed altogether. Would we have become the fourth largest economy in the world (up until recently) if this had happened? Maybe not. Would life in Britain have been better than it has been for the past twenty years? I think so.

[Shasown]

At the very least, we would have been self-sufficient and society wouldn't have been put in jeopardy by mass unemployment. Britain's tightly regulated, highly taxed economy should have been somewhat streamlined, not smashed altogether. Would we have become the fourth largest economy in the world (up until recently) if this had happened? Maybe not. Would life in Britain have been better than it has been for the past twenty years? I think so.

No chance we would ever have been self sufficient, its alright saying if we had kept our pits open with public funds our iron and steel industry would have bought the coal, no they wouldnt, they would still have bought cheaper, more reliable deliveries from germany, even though the coal itself was of a lower quality, it was guarenteed to be there when you wanted it.

Would the British Public have paid for far more expensive electricity, cars etc than cheaper foreign imports. Dont think so. So what could we do, oh we could put an import tax on all foreign goods coming into the UK, in which case everyone else taxes our exports.

While Thatcher's policies werent ideal they were better than Labour's at the time, improving the balance of payments, reducing unemployment eventually and bringing down inflation, which is why Tony Blair used her basic economic model initially when he came to power.

The reason why the recession of the 1980's was so lengthy was because at the start of the decade the pound became a petro currency because of North Sea Oil and its value rose. This meant our exports overseas became more expensive, this in turn reduced demand for british goods, even in the uk market as foreign imports were cheaper, consequently our manufacturing industries suffered.

Long Term unemployment figures started falling mid-80's partly due to massaged figures but also due to a real fall in numbers unemployed. When Labour came to power they were riding on the back of Tory policies for the first 2-3 years. Since then figures have been further massaged. However since the mid 80's the numbers of people in employment has actually risen.

[Mystic Mock]

yes his a hypocrite aswell he told john major to call an election wheres him doing it and once david cameron took the lead over him he didnt go through with the election his clinging on for power

[Shasown]

Is Gordon Brown really that bad i mean all he is doing is being the fall guy for Tony Blair.

Now personally he was the worst prime minsiter in my eyes, a supposed christian and ex-cnd member taking us into Iraq etc. Education for all - was only there to keep youngsters off the dole and run up student debt while getting a degree in some wonderful made up subjects like media studies. He runs the country into the ground then walks away and leaves poor one eye to take all the flak.

Then again there was Neville Chamberlain, a complete knob if you ask me , waving his bit of paper around declaring "peace in our time!" What a tool.

[Angus]

Is Gordon Brown really that bad i mean all he is doing is being the fall guy for Tony Blair.

Now personally he was the worst prime minsiter in my eyes, a supposed christian and ex-cnd member taking us into Iraq etc. Education for all - was only there to keep youngsters off the dole and run up student debt while getting a degree in some wonderful made up subjects like media studies. He runs the country into the ground then walks away and leaves poor one eye to take all the flak.

Then again there was Neville Chamberlain, a complete knob if you ask me , waving his bit of paper around declaring "peace in our time!" What a tool.

Well it was Gordon Brown, Peter Mandelson and Alastair Darling, Blair's henchmen who were complicit in deceiving us into waging an illegal war in Iraq; throwing open our borders with no controls to stop criminals and terrorists entering our country; imposing political correctness on us so that we are now barely allowed to express an opinion in case it "offends" someone; bringing this country to the brink of bankruptcy since Brown's policy, when he was chancellor, was to throw more money at everything, borrowing up to the hilt, so that it will take decades for this country to repay the billions it owes; and rewarding incompetent bankers with tax payers' money, etc etc. Now Brown has decided to cut back on defence spending, which means the forces are ill equipped to defend themselves never mind actually fight, whilst he continues to send our soldiers to fight in wars that are futile because he is still trying to climb up America's backside, except that Blair is still firmly lodged up there.

THAT Gordon Brown? Not bad???!!! Just give him another four years in power and watch him finish off the job of grinding this country into the ground.

[Shasown]

Well it was Gordon Brown, Peter Mandelson and Alastair Darling, Blair's henchmen who were complicit in deceiving us into waging an illegal war in Iraq; throwing open our borders with no controls to stop criminals and terrorists entering our country; imposing political correctness on us so that we are now barely allowed to express an opinion in case it "offends" someone; bringing this country to the brink of bankruptcy since Brown's policy, when he was chancellor, was to throw more money at everything, borrowing up to the hilt, so that it will take decades for this country to repay the billions it owes; and rewarding incompetent bankers with tax payers' money, etc etc. Now Brown has decided to cut back on defence spending, which means the forces are ill equipped to defend themselves never mind actually fight, whilst he continues to send our soldiers to fight in wars that are futile because he is still trying to climb up America's backside, except that Blair is still firmly lodged up there.

THAT Gordon Brown? Not bad???!!! Just give him another four years in power and watch him finish off the job of grinding this country into the ground.

He may have been Chancellor but TB still had the final say. As for the Iraq War, it was in the end Tony's decision. Amusing really because as PM his mandate for involving the British Armed Forces in conflict was for defence, so amazingly a reason for invasion for defence appeared, now it appears there were a few kinks in the truth. His mandate was exceeded regardless of how he now states we did the right thing removing Saddam. He was advised without a reason for securing defence of our realm it was illegal.

If it was up to me personally I wouldnt give Gordon Brown four more minutes in power.

[NettoSuperstar!]

If your gonna pull the rug under a large section of the population, at least have the decency to invest in education training and skills for the people in the mess you left behind! At Least Blair had a go at that!...This recession...Thatchers fault! Everything wrong with society... Thatchers fault!...she'd even steal milk from a bairn that one!

[arista]

If your gonna pull the rug under a large section of the population, at least have the decency to invest in education training and skills for the people in the mess you left behind! At Least Blair had a go at that!


Evil Warmonger Blair should be in Prison.

He is 100% Guilty of giving the World a Falsehood.


Utter Fact.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Evil Warmonger Blair should be in Prison.

He is 100% Guilty of giving the World a Falsehood.


Utter Fact.

Well I dont agree with going to war in Iraq at that time no

[arista]

Well I dont agree with going to war in Iraq at that time no


Yes it was a Illegal Invasion
that will Finish New Labour Forever.

[Angus]

If your gonna pull the rug under a large section of the population, at least have the decency to invest in education training and skills for the people in the mess you left behind! At Least Blair had a go at that!...This recession...Thatchers fault! Everything wrong with society... Thatchers fault!...she'd even steal milk from a bairn that one!

How did Blair have a go at investing in education, training and skills? The very first thing that New Labour did when they got into power was to scrap the Assisted Places scheme which offered underprivileged children fully funded education at private schools, thereby making private education the preserve only of the priviliged and rich again. A cynical move by a New Labour government whose majority of MPs attended private schools themselves yet they wanted to deny that opportunity to any one else's child.

For a government that intends to fight the next election on the class issue, for those that dont know, here's the full list of all the labour mps who attended private schools and are oh sOOOO representative of the working class eh? Labour voters who still believe that BS are living in the past.

•Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood)
•Hugh Bayley (City of York)
•Hilary Benn (Leeds Central)
•Bob Blizzard (Waveney)
•Chris Bryant (Rhondda)
•Stephen Byers (North Tyneside)
•Charles Clarke (Norwich South)
•Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley)
•Jim Cousins (Newcastle-upon-Tyne Central)
•Alistair Darling (Edinburgh South West)
•Quentin Davies (Grantham and Stamford)
•Louise Ellman (Liverpool Riverside)
•Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire)
•Mark Fisher (Stoke-on-Trent Central)
•Barry Gardiner (Brent North)
•Linda Gilroy (Plymouth Sutton)
•Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East)
•Peter Hain (Neath)
•Patrick Hall (Bedford and Kempston)
•Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East)
•Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Peckham)
•John Healey (Wentworth)
•Margaret Hodge (Barking)
•Geoff Hoon (Ashfield)
•Lindsay Hoyle (Chorley)
•Tessa Jowell (Dulwich and West Norwood)
•Sally Keeble (Northampton North)
•Ruth Kelly (Bolton West)
•Jim Knight (South Dorset)
•Ivan Lewis (South Bury)
•Martin Linton (Battersea)
•Ian Lucas (Wrexham)
•Denis MacShane (Rotherham)
•Fiona Mactaggart (Slough)
•Judy Mallaber (Amber Valley)
•John Mann (Bassetlaw)
•Rob Marris (Wolverhampton South West)
•Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South)
•Bob Marshall-Andrews (Medway)
•Michael Meacher (Oldham West and Royton)
•Chris Mole (Ipswich)
•Julie Morgan (Cardiff North)
•Doug Naysmith (Bristol North West)
•Nick Palmer (Broxtowe)
•Gordon Prentice (Pendle)
•James Purnell (Stalybridge and Hyde)
•Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich)
•Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West)
•Andrew Slaughter (Ealing, Acton and Shepherd's Bush)
•John Spellar (Warley)
•Phyllis Starkey (Milton Keynes South West)
•Howard Stoate (Dartford)
•Gavin Strang (Edinburgh East)
•Mark Todd (South Derbyshire)
•Kitty Ussher (Burnley)
•Keith Vaz (Leicester East)
•Malcolm Wicks (Croydon North)
•Michael Wills (Swindon North)
•Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central)
•Shaun Woodward (St Helens South)


As regards the recession, this has followed 10 years of Brown's stint as chancellor, not a good legacy is it. At least Thatcher enabled thousands to buy their own property (Right to Buy), and offered the Assisted Places Scheme for underprivileged children. As for the recession, Brown created it during his dire stint as Chancellor, and is now engineering a false recovery to bolster his election chances. He treats the electorate as if they are idiots, but most of us can see through the labour spin machine.

Since New Labour came to power, we have seen a return of the unofficial strikes, official strikes, wildcat strikes etc, that have plagued our economy during the previous five decades. I am not against Unions but they have to understand that their workers are not superior to any others and if there is no more money in the pot then they should be pleased they, at least, HAVE a job. Thatcher was instrumental in curbing the power of the Unions who held the public to ransom too often. Under New Labour, the Unions, who significantly fund the party, have grown arrogant and greedy again. Recent examples are Royal Mail and British Airways, whose members are quite happy to disrupt people's lives and expect us to sympathise with their cause.

Thatcher may have been a lot of things, good and bad, but at the time she was in power SHE was actually the best man for the job, and the Tories have paid the price of ousting her as leader by being unable to put forward a viable leader of the party for some time. Thatcher was the daughter of a grocer, and had to be twice as good as the men in order to progress in politics (we're talking forty years ago when women were still being overlooked for all the top jobs). Cameron is far from perfect, but I'd take him over an unelected Brown who, along with his cohorts, has proven himself to be not up to the job.

[bbfan1991]

Gordon Brown is so boring, I can't stand him... useless:mad:.

[NettoSuperstar!]

How did Blair have a go at investing in education, training and skills? The very first thing that New Labour did when they got into power was to scrap the Assisted Places scheme which offered underprivileged children fully funded education at private schools, thereby making private education the preserve only of the priviliged and rich again. A cynical move by a New Labour government whose majority of MPs attended private schools themselves yet they wanted to deny that opportunity to any one else's child.

For a government that intends to fight the next election on the class issue, for those that dont know, here's the full list of all the labour mps who attended private schools and are oh sOOOO representative of the working class eh? Labour voters who still believe that BS are living in the past.

•Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood)
•Hugh Bayley (City of York)
•Hilary Benn (Leeds Central)
•Bob Blizzard (Waveney)
•Chris Bryant (Rhondda)
•Stephen Byers (North Tyneside)
•Charles Clarke (Norwich South)
•Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley)
•Jim Cousins (Newcastle-upon-Tyne Central)
•Alistair Darling (Edinburgh South West)
•Quentin Davies (Grantham and Stamford)
•Louise Ellman (Liverpool Riverside)
•Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire)
•Mark Fisher (Stoke-on-Trent Central)
•Barry Gardiner (Brent North)
•Linda Gilroy (Plymouth Sutton)
•Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East)
•Peter Hain (Neath)
•Patrick Hall (Bedford and Kempston)
•Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East)
•Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Peckham)
•John Healey (Wentworth)
•Margaret Hodge (Barking)
•Geoff Hoon (Ashfield)
•Lindsay Hoyle (Chorley)
•Tessa Jowell (Dulwich and West Norwood)
•Sally Keeble (Northampton North)
•Ruth Kelly (Bolton West)
•Jim Knight (South Dorset)
•Ivan Lewis (South Bury)
•Martin Linton (Battersea)
•Ian Lucas (Wrexham)
•Denis MacShane (Rotherham)
•Fiona Mactaggart (Slough)
•Judy Mallaber (Amber Valley)
•John Mann (Bassetlaw)
•Rob Marris (Wolverhampton South West)
•Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South)
•Bob Marshall-Andrews (Medway)
•Michael Meacher (Oldham West and Royton)
•Chris Mole (Ipswich)
•Julie Morgan (Cardiff North)
•Doug Naysmith (Bristol North West)
•Nick Palmer (Broxtowe)
•Gordon Prentice (Pendle)
•James Purnell (Stalybridge and Hyde)
•Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich)
•Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West)
•Andrew Slaughter (Ealing, Acton and Shepherd's Bush)
•John Spellar (Warley)
•Phyllis Starkey (Milton Keynes South West)
•Howard Stoate (Dartford)
•Gavin Strang (Edinburgh East)
•Mark Todd (South Derbyshire)
•Kitty Ussher (Burnley)
•Keith Vaz (Leicester East)
•Malcolm Wicks (Croydon North)
•Michael Wills (Swindon North)
•Rosie Winterton (Doncaster Central)
•Shaun Woodward (St Helens South)


As regards the recession, this has followed 10 years of Brown's stint as chancellor, not a good legacy is it. At least Thatcher enabled thousands to buy their own property (Right to Buy), and offered the Assisted Places Scheme for underprivileged children. As for the recession, Brown created it during his dire stint as Chancellor, and is now engineering a false recovery to bolster his election chances. He treats the electorate as if they are idiots, but most of us can see through the labour spin machine.

Since New Labour came to power, we have seen a return of the unofficial strikes, official strikes, wildcat strikes etc, that have plagued our economy during the previous five decades. I am not against Unions but they have to understand that their workers are not superior to any others and if there is no more money in the pot then they should be pleased they, at least, HAVE a job. Thatcher was instrumental in curbing the power of the Unions who held the public to ransom too often. Under New Labour, the Unions, who significantly fund the party, have grown arrogant and greedy again. Recent examples are Royal Mail and British Airways, whose members are quite happy to disrupt people's lives and expect us to sympathise with their cause.

Thatcher may have been a lot of things, good and bad, but at the time she was in power SHE was actually the best man for the job, and the Tories have paid the price of ousting her as leader by being unable to put forward a viable leader of the party for some time. Thatcher was the daughter of a grocer, and had to be twice as good as the men in order to progress in politics (we're talking forty years ago when women were still being overlooked for all the top jobs). Cameron is far from perfect, but I'd take him over an unelected Brown who, along with his cohorts, has proven himself to be not up to the job.

Oh yeh the few token places for the working classes to go to posh school! (actually most places went to middle class kids who couldnt quite afford private) Great scheme that! If Thatcher had her way she'd have completely left the state system to rot and created a two tier system one for the privileged and left the working/middle classes to rot unless theyre really lucky! At least Blair invested in state education, trying to reduce class sizes, nursery funding etc...I probably wouldnt be able to afford to work if it wasnt for nursery funding and I know a lot of working class mothers definately wouldnt! And I have a relatively good job! What these toffs and thatcherites (of which New Labour pretty much turned into, I dont deny) dont realise is if you dont invest in the worker ants/consumers and you let the greedy go unchecked then the whole system breaks down and you push more people on to benefits! The whole ****ing system is wrong, but I would still vote Labour over Tory any day! Camerons not fit to run a country, he hasnt got a clue FACT! ...infact I would have had a harder time doing my degree under a Tory govt full stop! Its only the minimum wage coming in and working time directives (Tories would have cut us off from Europe) that enabled me to get ahead!....and while Im on my anti Tory rant, they are currently proposing to scrap child tax credits for some which will inevitably mean that a lot of people, women particularly will have to give up work and go on benefits! and the poor rich divide grows ever furthur! ****e friggin logic! Ohhh and not to mention the inheritance tax cuts for millionaires! ****in buncha wankers!

and Brown didnt create the recession...if anything you can blame Thatcher for the that n all!....bitch...I'd effin dance on her grave

[Shasown]

(Tories would have cut us off from Europe) that enabled me to get ahead!....and while Im on my anti Tory rant, they are currently proposing to scrap child tax credits for some which will inevitably mean that a lot of people, women particularly will have to give up work and go on benefits! and the poor rich divide grows ever furthur! ****e friggin logic! Ohhh and not to mention the inheritance tax cuts for millionaires! ****in buncha wankers!

and Brown didnt create the recession...if anything you can blame Thatcher for the that n all!....bitch...I'd effin dance on her grave

Oh good i am glad your degree has educated you. It obviously wasn't in economics. Shame you dont actually look at facts and listen to what is being said.

The Tories would not have cut us off from Europe, if you believe their tales they would not have given so much of our power away to Europe, nor would they have allowed certain legislation become statute in this country.

They are for cutting tax Credits, at the wealthier end, where it isnt needed, isnt that the best place to cut it?

Although Brown didnt create the recession, you cant lay it at Thatchers door either. It is global, that means its worldwide and while our bankers and economists contributed to it they certainly didnt cause it, try American banks and over extension of credit etc.

What you can lay at Brown and Blair's door because they were in power during the lead up to it is the fact they failed to take strict enough economic measures to ensure the recession didnt bite too hard or for too long. Thats why other countries have come out of it quickly and we still wallow in it.

You earned for yourself, 9/10 for emotion on your anti-tory rant but 2/10 for fact and substance.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Oh good i am glad your degree has educated you. It obviously wasn't in economics. Shame you dont actually look at facts and listen to what is being said.

The Tories would not have cut us off from Europe, if you believe their tales they would not have given so much of our power away to Europe, nor would they have allowed certain legislation become statute in this country.

They are for cutting tax Credits, at the wealthier end, where it isnt needed, isnt that the best place to cut it?

Although Brown didnt create the recession, you cant lay it at Thatchers door either. It is global, that means its worldwide and while our bankers and economists contributed to it they certainly didnt cause it, try American banks and over extension of credit etc.

What you can lay at Brown and Blair's door because they were in power during the lead up to it is the fact they failed to take strict enough economic measures to ensure the recession didnt bite too hard or for too long. Thats why other countries have come out of it quickly and we still wallow in it.

You earned for yourself, 9/10 for emotion on your anti-tory rant but 2/10 for fact and substance.

Yeh tongue in cheek at the end there, but twas you that said Gordon created it ahem... and tis Maggie who advocated a complete lack of regulation in this country in the first place, dont get all high and mighty with me. And as for the tax credits theyre thinking of cutting them for middle income families (with children) like me who do depend on them to be able to work. Thatcher was anti Europe FACT

[Shasown]

Yeh tongue in cheek at the end there, but tis her who advocated a complete lack of regulation in this country in the first place, dont get all high and mighty with me. And as for the tax credits theyre thinking of cutting them for middle income families (with children) like me who do depend on them to be able to work. Thatcher was anti Europe FACT

^^^FICTION^^^

Hate to say this but if you are middle income, wouldnt it appeal to your socialist leanings to give a little away to lower income families? Or is socialism only good for you when you arent losing out through it?

Thatcher was anti Federalist europe, she saw no problem with ties with Europe she just wanted Europe to be fair in its treatment of all european states not just for the benefit of the French and Germans. An example would be the fight over the CAP(Common Agricultural Policy) and the British Rebate. A rebate that the great benevolent Blair gave away a few short years ago.

In her Bruges speech which funnily enough was used by phoney Tony. Her speech was far less anti-European than it is now regularly portrayed and many of her concerns about the creation of an over arching European superstate have been accepted not only by the Labour party but by other EU states. She spoke about creating a "family of nations, understanding each other better, appreciating each other more, doing more together but relishing our national identity no less than our common European endeavour" - hardly the anti-European rant it is often now claimed to have been. Thats FACT.

[NettoSuperstar!]

^^^FICTION^^^

Hate to say this but if you are middle income, wouldnt it appeal to your socialist leanings to give a little away to lower income families? Or is socialism only good for you when you arent losing out through it?

Thatcher was anti Federalist europe, she saw no problem with ties with Europe she just wanted Europe to be fair in its treatment of all european states not just for the benefit of the French and Germans. An example would be the fight over the CAP(Common Agricultural Policy) and the British Rebate. A rebate that the great benevolent Blair gave away a few short years ago.

In her Bruges speech which funnily enough was used by phoney Tony. Her speech was far less anti-European than it is now regularly portrayed and many of her concerns about the creation of an over arching European superstate have been accepted not only by the Labour party but by other EU states. She spoke about creating a "family of nations, understanding each other better, appreciating each other more, doing more together but relishing our national identity no less than our common European endeavour" - hardly the anti-European rant it is often now claimed to have been. Thats FACT.

yeh Im happy to pay taxes to help those less fortunate but not when people at the top are creaming off the rest of us and then getting us to pick up the tab when the greed game ****s up and not when theyre plannin inheritance tax breaks for millionaires....no Im not happy about that....and please you think Maggie would have gone for the working time directives gimme a break!

[Mikel]

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/02_02/thatcherMOS240207_228x315.jpg

only female Prime Minister. Coincidence? :joker:

whos that woman?
she looks... interesting

[Shasown]

yeh Im happy to pay taxes to help those less fortunate but not when people at the top are creaming off the rest of us and then getting us to pick up the tab and not when theyre plannin inheritance tax breaks for millionaires....no Im not happy about that....and please you think Maggie would have gone for the working time directives gimme a break!

The Working Time Regulations (1998 amd 2003) implemented the European Working Time Directive into GB law. They came from Europe, they werent a statute drawn up by the Labour Party for the benefit of the workers. Due to the fact that we signed over certain powers to Europe under the various European Treaties since 1973, the European Commision decides most of our Health and Safety Laws.

If she was still in power and we were signed into Europe to the same state as we are under labour then she would have had to accept and implement them.

[NettoSuperstar!]

The Working Time Regulations (1998 amd 2003) implemented the European Working Time Directive into GB law. They came from Europe, they werent a statute drawn up by the Labour Party for the benefit of the workers. Due to the fact that we signed over certain powers to Europe under the various European Treaties since 1973, the European Commision decides most of our Health and Safety Laws.

If she was still in power and we were signed into Europe to the same state as we are under labour then she would have had to accept and implement them.

She'd have done her damnedest not to fo sho mo fo

[Shasown]

She'd have done her damnedest not to fo sho mo fo

Thats really immaterial isn't it, given that she is not in charge of the conservative party, nor are they currently in power?

Of course I am a mother ****er, I have got several children. All of them mine, except the smallest. I am fostering her for Satan.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Thats really immaterial isn't it, given that she is not in charge of the conservative party, nor are they currently in power?

Of course I am a mother ****er, I have got several children. All of them mine, except the smallest. I am fostering her for Satan.

:devil:

[Shasown]

:devil:

Given that most Health and Safety Regulations were actually enacted during the Thatcher (1979-90) and Major(1990-1997) governments, and have simply been amended or added to since then I think its a fair bet that she would have adopted the European Working Time Directives in probably the same manner and time frame as labour did.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Hehe health and safety regulations! Thatcher and workers rights just dont go together in the same sentence...two words POLL and TAX now bugger off yer filthy Thatcherite lol

[Shasown]

Hehe health and safety regulations! Thatcher and workers rights just dont go together in the same sentence...two words POLL and TAX now bugger off yer filthy Thatcherite lol

Thats the best arguement you have?

Ah well, I would have thought your time at the local tech college would have taught you to open your eyes, ears and mind, just shows ignorance is rife even in middle income England.

Good to see you come up to the required standard for Tony's edukashun policy.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Patronisin get! Mine are open thanks

[Shasown]

Patronisin get! Mine are open thanks

Not patronising at all, but I can be if you want me to be. And obviously they arent open, ignoring true statements that are laid before you because of your personal bias shows a rather closed mind.

[arista]

Thats the best arguement you have?

Ah well, I would have thought your time at the local tech college would have taught you to open your eyes, ears and mind, just shows ignorance is rife even in middle income England.

Good to see you come up to the required standard for Tony's edukashun policy.



Yes 13 years of Corrupt New Labour
have Wrecked our Money and Nation
let alone the New Labour Confusion and Mess of Education

[NettoSuperstar!]

Not patronising at all, but I can be if you want me to be. And obviously they arent open, ignoring true statements that are laid before you because of your personal bias shows a rather closed mind.

"tech college" not patronising, assuming some kind of intellectual superiority when quibbling over working time directives? please...My eyes are open to the fact that an elite few are hoarding wealth at the expense of the others dont even bother trying to deny it...and Maggie was a pioneer

[Shasown]

"tech college" not patronising, assuming some kind of intellectual superiority when quibbling over working time directives? please...

Not an intellectual superiority, just being able to accept the truth regardless how much it goes against my own personal views.

"My eyes are open to the fact that an elite few are hoarding wealth at the expense of the others dont even bother trying to deny it...and Maggie was a pioneer

Welcome to the real world darling, its always been that way and will always be that way, even in whatever socialist Utopia you cream about when you dream.

And of course old Neil "I will never wear ermine" Kinnock. Just how many indexed linked pensions does he need to live off? A good socialist example, makes you all warm and fuzzy just thinking about him.

[NettoSuperstar!]

It might be the real world as we know it "darling" doesnt make it right! Look at Sweden and other Scandinavian countries...whole different culture over there and they do alright

PS: stick that in your patronising pipe and smoke it sunny jim-

"....It wasn't adopted in Britain until 1998 (and reluctantly at that), following the loss of a court battle in 1996. The Conservative government had argued that working time was not a health and safety provision under the EU treaties and should not be subject to regulation at EU level."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006/nov/06/workandcareers.europeanunion

"This confrontation strategy was
used by the UK’s conservative government in regard to the Working Time and the Young Workers
Directives. In both cases, John Major’s team was fundamentally opposed to the draft Directives
during the European negotiations (see e.g. Cassell 1992; EIRR 1993a; 1993b)

.....In March 1994, the UK challenged the
Working Time Directive in the European Court of Justice, seeking to annul the Directive on the
grounds that it had been issued on a wrong legal basis. A few days before the end of the
implementation deadline in November 1996, however, the European judges rejected all major
points of the UK challenge.17 The Tory government openly refused to accept the Court ruling
(House of Commons 1996: Cols 152-155) and did not take any decisive steps to comply with the
Directive until the end of its term of office in May 1997."

http://www.ihs.ac.at/publications/pol/2004WestEuropeanPolitics.pdf

[Shasown]

It might be the real world as we know it "darling" doesnt make it right! Look at Sweden and other Scandinavian countries...whole different culture over there and they do alright

PS: stick that in your patronising pipe and smoke it sunny jim-

"....It wasn't adopted in Britain until 1998 (and reluctantly at that), following the loss of a court battle in 1996. The Conservative government had argued that working time was not a health and safety provision under the EU treaties and should not be subject to regulation at EU level."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2006/nov/06/workandcareers.europeanunion

"This confrontation strategy was
used by the UK’s conservative government in regard to the Working Time and the Young Workers
Directives. In both cases, John Major’s team was fundamentally opposed to the draft Directives
during the European negotiations (see e.g. Cassell 1992; EIRR 1993a; 1993b)

.....In March 1994, the UK challenged the
Working Time Directive in the European Court of Justice, seeking to annul the Directive on the
grounds that it had been issued on a wrong legal basis. A few days before the end of the
implementation deadline in November 1996, however, the European judges rejected all major
points of the UK challenge.17 The Tory government openly refused to accept the Court ruling
(House of Commons 1996: Cols 152-155) and did not take any decisive steps to comply with the
Directive until the end of its term of office in May 1997."

http://www.ihs.ac.at/publications/pol/2004WestEuropeanPolitics.pdf



I can thoroughly recommend reading fully any source you wish to quote to support an arguement, then follow up on anything you find. From your first source:

"Labour supported the directive in opposition, saying it would help restore a fair balance between the rights and responsibilities of employers and employees. It has been rather less enthusiastic about it since being in power."

This is because they have fought tooth and nail to stop the removal of the opt out clause, they have asked for junior doctors and other health care professional to be exempt, then when refused asked for extra time for the implementation etc. exemptions in the offshore industry. I could go on... and on... and on. But hopefully you get the point.

[NettoSuperstar!]

I can thoroughly recommend reading fully any source you wish to quote to support an arguement, then follow up on anything you find. From your first source:

"Labour supported the directive in opposition, saying it would help restore a fair balance between the rights and responsibilities of employers and employees. It has been rather less enthusiastic about it since being in power."

This is because they have fought tooth and nail to stop the removal of the opt out clause, they have asked for junior doctors and other health care professional to be exempt, then when refused asked for extra time for the implementation etc. exemptions in the offshore industry. I could go on... and on... and on. But hopefully you get the point.

Im sure you could go on and on.... in a convoluted and patronsing manner at that...point is it didnt take a friggin genius to work out the Tories would have been set against it from day one, yet you had to be a tool about it and start acting the big I am,....The opt out clause is neccesary in some circumstances so....and when did I ever say Labour were perfect? I'd just take them over the Tories anyday

[arista]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/1/29/1264757898495/Anti-war-protesters-demon-005.jpg

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/1/29/1264757895508/Demonstrators-protest-aga-002.jpg

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/1/29/1264757894262/Demonstrators-protest-out-001.jpg

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/1/29/1264762748750/A-protester-wearing-in-a--006.jpg

The Utter Stinking New Labour Corrupt Legacy
that One Eyed Scottish Brown can not escape from
Fact.

[arista]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/2/8/1265657545439/09.02.10-Steve-Bell-on-th-005.jpg

More Dead under Corrupt New Labour (Led by One Eyed Scottish Brown)
than the Falklands conflict.

[Shasown]

Im sure you could go on and on.... in a convoluted and patronsing manner at that...point is it didnt take a friggin genius to work out the Tories would have been set against it from day one, yet you had to be a tool about it and start acting the big I am,....The opt out clause is neccesary in some circumstances so....and when did I ever say Labour were perfect? I'd just take them over the Tories anyday

Well obviously you are nowhere close to being any sort of genius, why would the tories have been against it. Bar the fact Europe was taking a little bit more of our right to govern ourselves.

The opt out clause necessary? Give us a few examples where it is necessary. The only time i can see it being necessary for workers to enjoy the clause is where they want to earn extra through overtime.

Incidentally, most Unions state it should be removed because unscrupulous employers will bully or blackmail workers into signing to opt out. Seems a bit strange that one the Labour government not wanting to follow the unions on workers rights etc?

[NettoSuperstar!]

Well obviously you are nowhere close to being any sort of genius, why would the tories have been against it. Bar the fact Europe was taking a little bit more of our right to govern ourselves.

The opt out clause necessary? Give us a few examples where it is necessary. The only time i can see it being necessary for workers to enjoy the clause is where they want to earn extra through overtime.

Incidentally, most Unions state it should be removed because unscrupulous employers will bully or blackmail workers into signing to opt out. Seems a bit strange that one the Labour government not wanting to follow the unions on workers rights etc?

Well neither are you it dont wash mate...I dont really have much of an opinion on the opt out clause either way to be honest, yeh good points...whatever...the Tories opposed any kind of working time directive like I thought they would (lol@the excuses Maggie took what suited her and ditched what didnt) now frig off back to your Ivory tower and come back when you have a clue...and to reiterate I dont think the sun shines out of Labours arse either

[andyman]

Yes arista, Gordon Brown is from Scotland and has one bad eye..

[Shasown]

Well neither are you it dont wash mate...I dont really have much of an opinion on the opt out clause either way to be honest, yeh good points...whatever...the Tories opposed any kind of working time directive like I thought they would (lol@the excuses Maggie took what suited her and ditched what didnt) now frig off back to your Ivory tower and come back when you have a clue...and to reiterate I dont think the sun shines out of Labours arse either

Arrr something I said upset you? I do have more than a clue, if you cant stand your arguements being ripped to shreds , post facts not opinionated drivel.

[bananarama]

Wrong
He will save this Nation.


About time they brought a pill out to cure self delusion ......Worst prime minister in the history well that prize has to go without a doubt to MARGARET THATCHER........

[arista]

About time they brought a pill out to cure self delusion ......


http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2010/Feb/Week2/15546454.jpg



About time you read the Truth on Corrupt Warmonger Stinking New Labour
and One Eyed Scottish Brown.

[Shasown]

About time they brought a pill out to cure self delusion ......Worst prime minister in the history well that prize has to go without a doubt to MARGARET THATCHER........

And Wilson and then Callaghan were great werent they....

Aaaahhhh the good old days when you never knew when the next power cut (due to industrial action) was due, when household rubbish was allowed to accumulate in the streets for weeks at a time because the binmen didnt want to play. Bodies werent being buried and you couldnt get into or out of your local hospital because of the pickets. Railways werent running, petrol wasnt available at the pumps.

What a right good winter that was. 1978-1979 I remember it fondly.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Arrr something I said upset you? I do have more than a clue, if you cant stand your arguements being ripped to shreds , post facts not opinionated drivel.

haha ripped to shreds?? you were wrong mate! And Cameron wants to opt out of Europes social chapter aswell which will inevitably lead to workers suffering and mostly women probably, not to mention damage trade with Europe. I'm under no illusions, Labour just have crumbs to offer and the tiniest of glimpses of hope but Tories just dont have anything...unless your filthy rich of course. If you want to discuss the merits of the opt out clause Im happy too, but like I say I dont really have a fully formed opinion on it...apparently it would cause chaos in the NHS if junior Drs/nurses couldnt put the hours in and yeh people rely on doing overtime etc. But you bought up a good example of people being bullied into opting out, and why is it the rest of Europe can manage it and we cant?...Its not wrong to want to create a fairer society where everyone has the same opportunities, social inclusion and access to human rights but that will mean some will have to be a little less greedy. What the people at the top of some of their empires earn is obscene and undeserved. Just look at the mess thats been caused recently and who suffers? You might think its ok, dog eat dog right? but I dont and it will cause problems in society, if not be the downfall of it.

[Shasown]

haha ripped to shreds?? you were wrong mate! And Cameron wants to opt out of Europes social chapter aswell which will inevitably lead to workers suffering and mostly women probably, not to mention damage trade with Europe. I'm under no illusions, Labour just have crumbs to offer and the tiniest of glimpses of hope but Tories just dont have anything...unless your filthy rich of course. If you want to discuss the merits of the opt out clause Im happy too, but like I say I dont really have a fully formed opinion on it...apparently it would cause chaos in the NHS if junior Drs/nurses couldnt put the hours in and yeh people rely on doing overtime etc. But you bought up a good example of people being bullied into opting out, and why is it the rest of Europe can manage it and we cant?...Its not wrong to want to create a fairer society where everyone has the same opportunities, social inclusion and access to human rights but that will mean some will have to be a little less greedy. What the people at the top of some of their empires earn is obscene and undeserved. Just look at the mess thats been caused recently and who suffers? You might think its ok, dog eat dog right? but I dont and it will cause problems in society, if not be the downfall of it.

Yes just look at the mess that has been caused recently, infortunately it wasnt David Cameron running the country was it? All those fat cat bankers getting bonuses and undermining our economy, so Brown and Darling step in and bail out the banks, and hey before they have paid back the money they owe the tax payer they are back getting the bonuses again.

How will opting out of the social chapter lead to workers suffering? All it means is we will be able to bring our own legislation for Health and Safety and Workers rights etc, without having to go through the European Majority Vote system we now have to. Or having unnecessary regulations forced onto UK industry. Its all right screaming "panic" but please understand what you are panicking for.

How do the rest of Europe manage in the health field? There are some countries health services that arent anywhere near as good as the NHS is. As for the better ones, they dont have half as many administrators in their health services thats for sure. Most of the money spent in health goes to front line services, doctors, nurses etc where it rightly should unlike the NHS where a sizeable amount of the budget goes to Administration.

No arguements about people at the top of businesses etc earning obscene amounts but you have to remember that since 1997 Tory Tony and now bungling Brown were at the helm of the ship.

While I commend your socialist feelings about equality for all, there are a lot more problems wrong with society than people earning different amounts and I dont honestly think that will bring about its downfall.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Yes just look at the mess that has been caused recently, infortunately it wasnt David Cameron running the country was it? All those fat cat bankers getting bonuses and undermining our economy, so Brown and Darling step in and bail out the banks, and hey before they have paid back the money they owe the tax payer they are back getting the bonuses again.

How will opting out of the social chapter lead to workers suffering? All it means is we will be able to bring our own legislation for Health and Safety and Workers rights etc, without having to go through the European Majority Vote system we now have to. Or having unnecessary regulations forced onto UK industry. Its all right screaming "panic" but please understand what you are panicking for.

How do the rest of Europe manage in the health field? There are some countries health services that arent anywhere near as good as the NHS is. As for the better ones, they dont have half as many administrators in their health services thats for sure. Most of the money spent in health goes to front line services, doctors, nurses etc where it rightly should unlike the NHS where a sizeable amount of the budget goes to Administration.

No arguements about people at the top of businesses etc earning obscene amounts but you have to remember that since 1997 Tory Tony and now bungling Brown were at the helm of the ship.

While I commend your socialist feelings about equality for all, there are a lot more problems wrong with society than people earning different amounts and I dont honestly think that will bring about its downfall.

No it wasnt Cameron running the country (thank ****), do you seriously think they would have kept the banks in check? It goes against everything they stand for. And as much as I'd love to share your optimism, do you honestly think if Cameron had his way things like maternity rights, working time directives etc will not be affected? Come on now... not that he will be able to do **** all anyway, Cameron has no clear direction on anything! And Im bloody glad it wasnt them in charge during this recession. As for health care, we could have one of the best systems in the world if there wasnt such class division and the two tier system that exists now...look at Sweden etc. The problem here is that too many people are concerned with their own welfare and dont have a second thought for whats good for society as a whole. I have no problem with people earning different amounts, Im not a commie, but there has to be balance and there has to be some kind of unity and concern for the whole of society in general or look at what greed and individualism does, it threatens the stability of us all and is more responsible for the division in society than anything else. Yeh I agree bankers should be paying us back big time, but Cameron wont be doing owt about that. I think the problem here is your lookin at Maggie with your economic specs on and I have my ideological ones on, sure she may have made some shrewd economic moves at the time but people (yer know them human being types) and society suffered for that...sure bringing back slave labour would make great economic sense, imagine how competitive we could be then lol but it aint right now is it?