Paranoia...kinda.

[Shaun]

Does anyone else have thoughts that nothing actually exists...in some sense of the word...and life is actually a giant prank being played on you.

I usually think it when I'm a bit confused/depressed.

Like...there are lots of possibilities.

a) Everything I encounter has been scripted, Truman Show style. And it's all for laughs at my expense.

b) I don't actually exist. When I die someone else will be started.

...I'm not entirely sure what I mean. But maybe that's a good thing...if I suss out the truth you'll all kill me for knowing too much ;)

[Niamh.]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahaha, all the time!!!

[MrGaryy]

yeah I totally get this. I often have thoughts that I'm in like a Truman show type situation, that there are cameras everywhere and that my family and friends can see my every move.

i'm ****ed up LOL.

[Stu]

Sounds like dissociation and good old fashioned ego death. I used to get it loads back in the trippy days. It's a common side effect of depression. It's really all on you to drag yourself back in and convince yourself that it's real.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depersonalization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derealization

[Ramsay]

All...the ...time

[Jack_]

Yeah, I've basically thought this since Joe made a thread months back. It's certainly an intriguing theory.

I think I've managed to get to a place where 'nothing' exists...in a sense. That sounds weird, I know, but I have. I sort of picture the world, zoom out into the universe and then just imagine that it wasn't there. Nothing. None of it. It's hard to explain but for a few seconds I fall into this 'zone' where absolutely nothing exists.

Pretty ****ed up stuff.

[Stephanie]

yes! me, jordy and jack had a similar conversation last week, it's kind of scary thinking about it.

[Tony Stark]

We know nothing other than that we exist because we experience.

[ILoveTRW]

i often swear at people in my head to see if they hear me lol

[Jords]

yes! me, jordy and jack had a similar conversation last week, it's kind of scary thinking about it.

This, it was a good chat.

We thought that maybe its just 1 of us imagining everything going on, and when we are unable to stop imagining, is when we 'die'.
Like Jack said, how do we know other people are around unless we hear them or can actually see them?

Scary thought indeed. :/

[Jack_]

Oh dear, Stu. It says it could be a symptom of sleep deprivation...early nights in order for me I think...

[MeMyselfAndI]

no i think people r people

[Shaun]

Oh dear, Stu. It says it could be a symptom of sleep deprivation...early nights in order for me I think...

I sleep like 10 hours at a time. Bish plz.

[MrGaryy]

no i think people r people

pmsl.

[Stu]

Oh dear, Stu. It says it could be a symptom of sleep deprivation...early nights in order for me I think...
The brain is always at it's darkest when it's dark. Chances are you are far more likely to feel this kind of stuff at 4AM rather than 4PM because human contact is dead all around you and your left to yourself. It's a big factor in solipsism.

[Jack_]

Like Jack said, how do we know other people are around unless we hear them or can actually see them?

Yeah, that was another interesting thought.

It's like that philosophical question, 'if a tree falls in a wood, and there's no one there to hear it, does it make a sound?'. Applying that to this situation would mean that if your mum, for instance, was calling you from another room, you might just be imagining her calling you, and everytime you walk out of the room, she disappears, as does everyone else, until you see them again. As if they don't exist, and they only exist when you see them.

[Shasown]

Yeah, I've basically thought this since Joe made a thread months back. It's certainly an intriguing theory.

I think I've managed to get to a place where 'nothing' exists...in a sense. That sounds weird, I know, but I have. I sort of picture the world, zoom out into the universe and then just imagine that it wasn't there. Nothing. None of it. It's hard to explain but for a few seconds I fall into this 'zone' where absolutely nothing exists.

Pretty ****ed up stuff.

Well done you, sounds like you have sussed meditation, this not-knowing is the true secret of Zen. Now grasshopper look within and see who you really are. Once you can overcome or negate the nothingness, you are truly on the path to enlightenment.

[arista]

We know nothing other than that we exist because we experience.


There Is No God.

[Jords]

There Is No God.

In your opinion.

Im agnostic, the idea is nice but I dont think there is a God, but you shouldnt pass it as fact.

[arista]

In your opinion.


No in the Whole Universe.

[Tom]

No, but sometimes it feels like I'm dreaming and I'm not actually here. Not that often though

[Stu]

In your opinion.

Im agnostic, the idea is nice but I dont think there is a God, but you shouldnt pass it as fact.
It should be fact until it is disproven though, otherwise we can say the same thing about plenty of other things.

Are space wolves, spaghetti monsters, and whales inside the core of Jupiter a real possibility just because we can't disprove them?

[Patrick]

Yeah
Infact, I have thought many times that when I die you all die.
Before I was born the world didnt excist.
And all the history is just being made up to make us belive the world has been going on for years.

I think when I leave a room and leave a person, they are non excistant until I return.

[Jords]

It should be fact until it is disproven though, otherwise we can say the same thing about plenty of other things.

Are space wolves, spaghetti monsters, and whales inside the core of Jupiter a real possibility just because we can't disprove them?

Stu why are your points always so good? :hugesmile: Thats true, I guess.

[Shasown]

Wonderful , from theology to quantum mechanics (the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen (EPR) paradox and Schrödinger's cat) all within 23 posts on a thread.

[Tony Stark]

There Is No God.

We don't know that either.

No in the Whole Universe.

Don't be so arrogant.

It should be fact until it is disproven though, otherwise we can say the same thing about plenty of other things.

Are space wolves, spaghetti monsters, and whales inside the core of Jupiter a real possibility just because we can't disprove them?

What? Something is only a fact if it's been proven.

Stu why are your points always so good? :hugesmile: Thats true, I guess.

No it isn't.

[Tom]

It should be fact until it is disproven though, otherwise we can say the same thing about plenty of other things.

Are space wolves, spaghetti monsters, and whales inside the core of Jupiter a real possibility just because we can't disprove them?

You can disprove them though ... there is no evidence whatsoever for those things you list, and there is for God.

[\PJ/]

Yeah
Infact, I have thought many times that when I die you all die.
Before I was born the world didnt excist.
And all the history is just being made up to make us belive the world has been going on for years.

I think when I leave a room and leave a person, they are non excistant until I return.


i get this.

[Stu]

We don't know that either.



Don't be so arrogant.



What? Something is only a fact if it's been proven.



No it isn't.
Ignoring the point, but whatever.

You can disprove them though ... there is no evidence whatsoever for those things you list, and there is for God.
You can't disprove them anymore than you can't disprove god. Nobody has seen space wolves and nobody has seen god.

[Tony Stark]

You can disprove them though ... there is no evidence whatsoever for those things you list, and there is for God.

What evidence is there for God?

[Shasown]

What evidence is there for God?

Surely that depends on what you define as God

[Tom]

You can't disprove them anymore than you can't disprove god. Nobody has seen space wolves and nobody has seen god.

2 billion people don't have reason to believe in space wolves like they do God. And some people claim to have seen God, just because you don't think they haven't doesn't mean you're right.

To disprove God you need to start by counteracting any proof that there is for God, whereas to disprove space wolves you don't have to do that because theres no proof to start with.

What evidence is there for God?

A small thing called Christianity. Dunno if you've heard of it though.

(I'm not religious btw)

[GypsyGoth]

I some times get something like that, but I think I'm living to learn something, and when I figure it out I'll move on, to either death or reincarnation.

Other times I think none of it matters, that I could step out in front of a train or bus, and sure people who know me would be sad for a time, but it really wouldn't matter, none of this really does.

[Stu]

2 billion people don't have reason to believe in space wolves like they do God. And some people claim to have seen God, just because you don't think they haven't doesn't mean you're right.

To disprove God you need to start by counteracting any proof that there is for God, whereas to disprove space wolves you don't have to do that because theres no proof to start with.



A small thing called Christianity. Dunno if you've heard of it though.

(I'm not religious btw)
So something is more credible simply because it latched on through tradition? That's an absurd argument. There are thousands of psychological, neurological reasons as to why people claim to 'see' God. There is no hard proof for the existence of God, just like space wolves.

Are you aware of Bertrand Russell's theory of the Celestial Teapot?




If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.



Christianity is proof of God. You do make me laugh, Tom.

[Shasown]

2 billion people don't have reason to believe in space wolves like they do God. And some people claim to have seen God, just because you don't think they haven't doesn't mean you're right.

To disprove God you need to start by counteracting any proof that there is for God, whereas to disprove space wolves you don't have to do that because theres no proof to start with.



A small thing called Christianity. Dunno if you've heard of it though.

(I'm not religious btw)

Yes they have a reason to believe in God, the reason for being a rational thinking being, they want to feel there is some special reason for life, not simply the result of a chemical interaction millions and millions of years ago that formed the first life forms in a primordial stew.

[Tony Stark]

2 billion people don't have reason to believe in space wolves like they do God. And some people claim to have seen God, just because you don't think they haven't doesn't mean you're right.

To disprove God you need to start by counteracting any proof that there is for God, whereas to disprove space wolves you don't have to do that because theres no proof to start with.



A small thing called Christianity. Dunno if you've heard of it though.

(I'm not religious btw)

How is a religion any evidence for the existence of a God? The only thing for which that's evidence is that there are people who believe in God, not that there is a God.

I some times get something like that, but I think I'm living to learn something, and when I figure it out I'll move on, to either death or reincarnation.

Other times I think none of it matters, that I could step out in front of a train or bus, and sure people who know me would be sad for a time, but it really wouldn't matter, none of this really does.

Why so limited? What happened to heaven?

[Stu]

Christianity is proof of God. Hehe. I'm still lolling.

Certain mythologies that predate Christianity had a much longer shelf life. Shouldn't they be right?

I suppose Islam is proof of Allah?

Or Hinduism is pr -

Oh look, kids. A religion contradiction. What a surprise.

[GypsyGoth]

Why so limited? What happened to heaven?

I have never believed in heaven. The only people I talk to who do are on here.

I think it's made up.

[Tony Stark]

Yes they have a reason to believe in God, the reason for being a rational thinking being, they want to feel there is some special reason for life, not simply the result of a chemical interaction millions and millions of years ago that formed the first life forms in a primordial stew.

Rational thinking beings have a reason to believe in God? That's a laugh.

I have never believed in heaven. The only people I talk to who do are on here.

I think it's made up.

And why isn't reincarnation made up? To me that's just as ridiculous as heaven.

[GypsyGoth]

And why isn't reincarnation made up? To me that's just as ridiculous as heaven.

A lot of times I think it is, but occasionally, I think when I am feeling upbeat, I believe that we come back.

But yea I feel that there is noting after this when I think about it logically, or when I'm depressed.

[Tom]

How is a religion any evidence for the existence of a God? The only thing for which that's evidence is that there are people who believe in God, not that there is a God.

Christianity is proof of God. Hehe. I'm still lolling.

Certain mythologies that predate Christianity had a much longer shelf life. Shouldn't they be right?

I suppose Islam is proof of Allah?

Or Hinduism is pr -

Oh look, kids. A religion contradiction. What a surprise.

Christianity is a wider subject than just praying to God or whatever. Religious experiences, life after death, miracles etc all come under it. Basically the unexplained. Some proof is based on eye witness testimony and I don't think it should be dismissed straight away just because it sounds daft.

Sorry if I sound kinda vague, its hard to argue against something you don't believe in ...

[Shasown]

Rational thinking beings have a reason to believe in God? That's a laugh.





No thats not what I am saying, I am saying that they feel there has to be a god to justify the fact that they are alive as a rational thinking human being. They dont accept the fact that life evolved as an accident and we developed simply by natural selection.

If someone wants to believe in some deity sitting watching over us like a loving father, thats fine. If someone wants to believe that God made all this happen and that us humans are his selected life form, thats fine too.

If someone wants to believe it all happened by accident from a clump of matter/antimatter exploding forming galaxies star and planets, and on one little planet on the cooling surface eventually, on reaching a carbon based life sustaining state, chemical substances accidentally combined in the soup and formed a life form which eventually evolved into all the different life forms that have been supported on this planet, thats fine too.

[Braden]

b) I don't actually exist. When I die someone else will be started.


I totally think that.

[setanta]

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

.

I've always liked that quote. But yeah, I think you're just very cynical when it concerns organized religion, right? I think deep down you believe in a soul or a higher state of being or am I wrong?

[Tony Stark]

A lot of times I think it is, but occasionally, I think when I am feeling upbeat, I believe that we come back.

But yea I feel that there is noting after this when I think about it logically, or when I'm depressed.

When I think about it logically, I feel that there may or may not be something after this. That's the only logical route to take.

Christianity is a wider subject than just praying to God or whatever. Religious experiences, life after death, miracles etc all come under it. Basically the unexplained. Some proof is based on eye witness testimony and I don't think it should be dismissed straight away just because it sounds daft.

Sorry if I sound kinda vague, its hard to argue against something you don't believe in ...

Unless something is proven, it's not worth believing in. I have no belief, I have knowledge, or I have nothing.

No thats not what I am saying, I am saying that they feel there has to be a god to justify the fact that they are alive as a rational thinking human being. They dont accept the fact that life evolved as an accident and we developed simply by natural selection.

If someone wants to believe in some deity sitting watching over us like a loving father, thats fine. If someone wants to believe that God made all this happen and that us humans are his selected life form, thats fine too.

If someone wants to believe it all happened by accident from a clump of matter/antimatter exploding forming galaxies star and planets, and on one little planet on the cooling surface eventually, on reaching a carbon based life sustaining state, chemical substances accidentally combined in the soup and formed a life form which eventually evolved into all the different life forms that have been supported on this planet, thats fine too.

But they're not alive as a rational thinking human being. They're alive, but if they were a rational thinking human being they'd have no reason to believe in God.

[Tony Stark]

I've always liked that quote. But yeah, I think you're just very cynical when it concerns organized religion, right? I think deep down you believe in a soul or a higher state of being or am I wrong?

Do you?

[setanta]

Do you?

Absolutely.

[Stu]

Christianity is a wider subject than just praying to God or whatever. Religious experiences, life after death, miracles etc all come under it. Basically the unexplained. Some proof is based on eye witness testimony and I don't think it should be dismissed straight away just because it sounds daft.

Sorry if I sound kinda vague, its hard to argue against something you don't believe in ...
Yeah it's very vague. No hard proof of God exists. That's a fact proveable by the fact that relgious people have faith and Atheists exist. If hard proof for God existed, atheists would not.

Eye witness testimony means nothing. Especially when it's from religious people. Thousands of reports exist detailing encounters with aliens, ghosts and monsters. Doesn't mean they exist [except for aliens, of course, who stand a very probably chance of existing].
b) I don't actually exist. When I die someone else will be started.


I totally think that.
So how can you die if you don't exist?

I've always liked that quote. But yeah, I think you're just very cynical when it concerns organized religion, right? I think deep down you believe in a soul or a higher state of being or am I wrong?
I used to. Up until last week, in fact, but all of a sudden and for no specific reason I became a bona fide atheist. My spiritual views got so diluted as they went along that they amounted to no fixed belief anyway, I was merely hanging on in the hope of making the world more interesting. But I have replaced reading religion with reading science and astronomy and really, that's far more fascinating to me now so I kind of dropped my vague beliefs in unproveable things just to appear more glamorous.

It's pointless sitting on the fence and allowing for the possibility of something after you die just for the sake of it. If that's the case there is an infinite scope of riddiculous, trivial things I could choose to believe in just because they could exist. Which nicely leads back to the teapot :).

[setanta]

Yeah it's very vague. No hard proof of God exists. That's a fact proveable by the fact that relgious people have faith and Atheists exist. If hard proof for God existed, atheists would not.

Eye witness testimony means nothing. Especially when it's from religious people. Thousands of reports exist detailing encounters with aliens, ghosts and monsters. Doesn't mean they exist [except for aliens, of course, who stand a very probably chance of existing].

So how can you die if you don't exist?


I used to. Up until last week, in fact, but all of a sudden and for no specific reason I became a bona fide atheist. My spiritual views got so diluted as they went along that they amounted to no fixed belief anyway, I was merely hanging on in the hope of making the world more interesting. But I have replaced reading religion with reading science and astronomy and really, that's far more fascinating to me now so I kind of dropped my vague beliefs in unproveable things just to appear more glamorous.

It's pointless sitting on the fence and allowing for the possibility of something after you die just for the sake of it. If that's the case there is an infinite scope of riddiculous, trivial things I could choose to believe in.

I'm reading an excellent scientific book at the moment that's all about the spiritual being and mystical, unexplained experiences. Very interesting.

[Tom]

Yeah it's very vague. No hard proof of God exists. That's a fact proveable by the fact that relgious people have faith and Atheists exist. If hard proof for God existed, atheists would not.

Eye witness testimony means nothing. Especially when it's from religious people. Thousands of reports exist detailing encounters with aliens, ghosts and monsters. Doesn't mean they exist [except for aliens, of course, who stand a very probably chance of existing].

But a lot of stuff in the Bible has actually happened, for example theres meant to be historical evidence for the plagues of Egypt and Jesus did exist. And then theres things like visions, psychics and things such as spontaneous combustion. All ultimately falls under religion and the belief of the supernatural/God.

I don't think eye witness testimony is any less valid whether it comes from religious people or if it doesn't. But of course theres going to be a bias depending on your agenda, just like there is with everything in EWT.

There is no hard proof either way- sceptic theories are just that. Just because they're a more rational way, sometimes very far fetched, it doesn't make it any more or less valid than what its trying to disprove.

I don't think we'll ever know and I don't think I actually would want to know. But my personal beliefs are summed up in the title of this Facebook group

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Christianity-One-womans-lie-about-having-an-affair-that-got-out-of-hand/188836322705?ref=ts

[MeMyselfAndI]

i dont like this weird talk of stuff its creepy lol

[Tony Stark]

Absolutely.

Why?

[GypsyGoth]

i dont like this weird talk of stuff its creepy lol

This thread probably isn't for you :)

[Stu]

But a lot of stuff in the Bible has actually happened, for example theres meant to be historical evidence for the plagues of Egypt and Jesus did exist. And then theres things like visions, psychics and things such as spontaneous combustion. All ultimately falls under religion and the belief of the supernatural/God.

I don't think eye witness testimony is any less valid whether it comes from religious people or if it doesn't. But of course theres going to be a bias depending on your agenda, just like there is with everything in EWT.

There is no hard proof either way- sceptic theories are just that. Just because they're a more rational way, sometimes very far fetched, it doesn't make it any more or less valid than what its trying to disprove.

I don't think we'll ever know and I don't think I actually would want to know. But my personal beliefs are summed up in the title of this Facebook group

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Christianity-One-womans-lie-about-having-an-affair-that-got-out-of-hand/188836322705?ref=ts
In other words there is no evidence for god, which was your initial point. If there was evidence we would know. At least in my understanding of the term 'evidence'.

Of course things in The Bible happened. At the end of the day it is a mixture of ramblings, prose, poetry and a *teeny* bit of history.

There is no universally accepted proof that the Egyptian plagues happened as told in The Bible.

[Tom]

Oh and the thing about aliens, thats a really broad term. Do you class a bug living on Mars as an alien or do you think theres a good chance of green men with black eyes who fly space ships, abduct people from earth and anal probe them existing?

[Stu]

Oh and the thing about aliens, thats a really broad term. Do you class a bug living on Mars as an alien or do you think theres a good chance of green men with black eyes who fly space ships, abduct people from earth and anal probe them existing?
Alien is a bit of a hollywood term I suppose, in fairness. Let's just say life outside Earth, which I believe stands a very, very high chance of existing.

[Tom]

In other words there is no evidence for god, which was your initial point. If there was evidence we would know. At least in my understanding of the term 'evidence'.

Of course things in The Bible happened. At the end of the day it is a mixture of ramblings, prose, poetry and a *teeny* bit of history.

There is no universally accepted proof that the Egyptian plagues happened as told in The Bible.

No my point is theres suggestable evidence, its something you need to go really indepth with though, you can't really just touch on it with a few half hearted points. So you can't really objectively say its a fact God does not exist.

[setanta]

Why?

It's a personal belief and as long as it doesn't infringe on others, I don't feel it necessary for me to validate it on a forum. I believe that there are forces at work that are beyond the scope of our own understanding, that's all.

[Stu]

No my point is theres suggestable evidence, its something you need to go really indepth with though, you can't really just touch on it with a few half hearted points. So you can't really objectively say its a fact God does not exist.
I think theory would be a more appropriate word. Sure, I can't say for a fact that God does not exist but you cannot say for a fact that a small teapot is not orbiting the earth. Both contain an equal lack of verified, hard proof.

[Shaun]

Ooh. An existentialism debate. Sartre must be wanking in his grave.

[Stu]

There is no grave.

[Shasown]

But they're not alive as a rational thinking human being. They're alive, but if they were a rational thinking human being they'd have no reason to believe in God.

As I said earlier depends on a persons definition of God. There are many ideas about the nature of God.

Seeing as science cant explain everything just yet, in fact our understanding of the universe and its history etc is like a primary schoolchild's understanding of Social and Economic History since the 17th century. A rational person wouldnt rule out the possibility of the existance of God. But would err on the side of safety and not completely deny it.

[Tony Stark]

It's a personal belief and as long as it doesn't infringe on others, I don't feel it necessary for me to validate it on a forum. I believe that there are forces at work that are beyond the scope of our own understanding, that's all.

Are you a parent?

[Stu]

Why does your post count always stay the same, Tony?

[Tony Stark]

Why does your post count always stay the same, Tony?

Cos I've never posted outside Chat and Games.