Pro Life or Pro Choice

[InOne]

Which are you?

[Twilight]

Pro Choice.

[Crimson Dynamo]

silly categories

everyone is pro life apart from the vampire community

[WOMBAI]

I can see both sides - but ultimately I believe it has to be a woman's choice over her own body and life! Noone has the right to legislate about that!

[MissKittyFantastico]

Pro choice.

BUT I do have a really big problem with girls/women who see abortion as a method of contraception almost and treat it like it's nothing. And I think the legal time frame needs bringing down to less than 20 weeks also, apart from when there is risk to either the mother or child by continuing with the pregnancy.

[30stone]

Pro choice.

BUT I do have a really big problem with girls/women who see abortion as a method of contraception almost and treat it like it's nothing. And I think the legal time frame needs bringing down to less than 20 weeks also, apart from when there is risk to either the mother or child by continuing with the pregnancy.

Agreed. fully.

[Princess]

Personally I'm pro-life but I'm not going to force that on to anyone else,it's for a person to decide.

[Stacey.]

Definitely pro-choice.

[Iceman]

choice!

[Crimson Dynamo]

when it comes to adult or child murder are the pro choice people still pro choice or pro life?

[Tom4784]

Pro-life, regardless of anyone's opinions there should always be a choice and whether someone wants to keep the baby or abort the pregnancy is completely upto them.

[arista]

when it comes to adult or child murder are the pro choice people still pro choice or pro life?



What are you talking about Child Murder?


Bull.


It is a UnbornBaby Terminated
Legal 100%

[Jessica.]

I'm against abortion tbh, I'm glad it's illegal in Ireland. To me a baby is a baby even if it hasn't been born.

[Braden]

Pro-life - to take someone's life away is awful!

You could have it and then at least give it to a family that want to adopt and love the child.

[Crimson Dynamo]

What are you talking about Child Murder?


Bull.


It is a UnbornBaby Terminated
Legal 100%

there are many legal things that are wrong.

[MrGaryy]

I'm very, very pro-choice.

[WOMBAI]

Pro-life - to take someone's life away is awful!

You could have it and then at least give it to a family that want to adopt and love the child.

It is not that black and white! It has to be an individual's choice - it can't be any other way!

[InOne]

I'm more on the choice side, but don't agree with the whole using it as a contrception thing, which sadly some girls do. I guess there has always been drunken fumbles and always will be.

[Smithy]

Same as Joe and Michelle tbh, I'm Pro Choice but it shouldn't be used as a form of contraceptive

[WOMBAI]

Pro choice.

BUT I do have a really big problem with girls/women who see abortion as a method of contraception almost and treat it like it's nothing. And I think the legal time frame needs bringing down to less than 20 weeks also, apart from when there is risk to either the mother or child by continuing with the pregnancy.

I quite agree - but let's not forget that two people are involved in using contraception - it isn't just down to the woman! Both sexes need to stop seeing abortion as a method on contraception!

[bronaaaa]

I'm reeeally pro life, but I've nothing against people who are pro choice, it's just something I couldn't ever do

[InOne]

I guess it's worse for girls who have one night stands though, cos if they didn't know the guy it's her who is left preggers and with all the difficult decisions.

[MissKittyFantastico]

I quite agree - but let's not forget that two people are involved in using contraception - it isn't just down to the woman! Both sexes need to stop seeing abortion as a method on contraception!

Oh I agree with you totally. It's just that it's the girl that has to go through what quite frankly is a harrowing experience, and I don't see how anyone could pass it off as just nothing and think nothing of not bothering with protection time and time again.

[Princess]

I'm reeeally pro life, but I've nothing against people who are pro choice, it's just something I couldn't ever do

Yeah I'm the same. I could never ever even think about doing it.

[zotler.]

The only time where I can see abortion as acceptable is in cases of rape, you couldn't blame someone for not wanting to give birth to a child they didn't even want to conceive. Anything else though, well, you shouldn't have been having sex if you weren't prepared for the chance of getting pregnant. If you don't want the baby that badly / can't take care of it, there's plenty of families looking to adopt.

[WOMBAI]

The only time where I can see abortion as acceptable is in cases of rape, you couldn't blame someone for not wanting to give birth to a child they didn't even want to conceive. Anything else though, well, you shouldn't have been having sex if you weren't prepared for the chance of getting pregnant. If you don't want the baby that badly / can't take care of it, there's plenty of families looking to adopt.

Who are you or anyone else to say when it is acceptable or not! Don't attempt to thrust your opinions down the throats of others! It is not your decision, and never should be, what others do in that situation! Face it - in the modern world - abortion will always be an option - the date just needs lowering!

The adoption argument is weak to say the least and shows that people that make such comments have absolutely no understanding of the situation.

There may be quite a few adoptive families at the moment - but if women were forced to have babies they didn't want - there soon wouldn't be enough families to go around, and older children looking for families wouldn't get a look-in as everyone would want babies. What about those that couldn't get good adoptive families - what happens to them - institutions! What a great start in life that would be!

The unsafe practice of illegal abortions would rear its ugly head again and many women and babies would die! All because some people think THEIR principles are what is important!

[zotler.]

Who are you or anyone else to say when it is acceptable or not! Don't attempt to thrust your opinions down the throats of others! It is not your decision what others do in that situation! Face it - in the modern world - abortion will always be an option - it just needs lowering a bit!
Excuse me? I said "Where I can see abortion as acceptable" which implies it's my opinion, I'm hardly trying to thrust it down anyones throat, nor did I say I care what other people do (Yes, okay, nor did I say that I didn't, but whatever.)
I'm aware that there will always be people who reckon the 'best' way to be free of raising a child is to abort it, I don't give a **** what they do, they'll be the ones who will probably think about it for the rest of their lives and wonder what their unborn child may of been like. :)

[zotler.]

The unsafe practice of illegal abortions would rear its ugly head again and many women and babies would die! All because some people think THEIR principles are what is important!

I don't recall saying abortion should be illegal, WTF.

[WOMBAI]

I don't recall saying abortion should be illegal, WTF.

As good as - you said that only women who had been raped should be allowed to terminate the pregnancy!

Ideally - noone would get pregnant who didn't want to be - but it isn't an ideal world - people make mistakes. In most cases - adoption is not a suitable alternative to abortion.

[WOMBAI]

Excuse me? I said "Where I can see abortion as acceptable" which implies it's my opinion, I'm hardly trying to thrust it down anyones throat, nor did I say I care what other people do (Yes, okay, nor did I say that I didn't, but whatever.)
I'm aware that there will always be people who reckon the 'best' way to be free of raising a child is to abort it, I don't give a **** what they do, they'll be the ones who will probably think about it for the rest of their lives and wonder what their unborn child may of been like. :)

Your opinion implied that you would support a ban for women, other than rape victims, from having abortions. Anyone supporting such an act - would thus be thrusting their opinions down the throats of those forced to have babies they didn't want.

[zotler.]

Your opinion implied that you would support a ban for women, other than rape victims, from having abortions. Anyone supporting such an act - would thus be thrusting their opinions down the throats of those forced to have babies they didn't want.

Okay yeah, maybe I was a bit foggy. What I meant by it though, is that where I can only see it as a legitimate reason... I'm not going to stand outside of abortion clinics protesting, people can "terminate their pregnancy" all they like.

[WOMBAI]

Okay yeah, maybe I was a bit foggy. What I meant by it though, is that where I can only see it as a legitimate reason... I'm not going to stand outside of abortion clinics protesting, people can "terminate their pregnancy" all they like.


Fair enough!

[Zippy]

How can anybody be against choice? Apart from anything else, its not in a childs interest to be born unwanted. Lord knows there are enough unwanted children in the world already. They suffer all kinds of horrors.

That said, in this day there is really no need for unwanted pregnancies and women really should take the ultimate responsibility for their own bodies.

[bananarama]

Pro choice if the womwans life is in danger......Otherwise abortion is cold blooded murder without justification........Something Hitler would rejoice at doing.......

[Shasown]

Who are you or anyone else to say when it is acceptable or not! Don't attempt to thrust your opinions down the throats of others! It is not your decision, and never should be, what others do in that situation! Face it - in the modern world - abortion will always be an option - the date just needs lowering!




Who are you or anyone else to say when it is acceptable or not! Don't attempt to thrust your opinions down the throats of others! It is not your decision, and never should be, what others do in that situation! Face it - in the modern world - abortion will always be an option - the date just needs lowering!



Whilst I agree with what your opinion on this subject, this is a somewhat harsh response given its a forum for debate, and in your eyes zotler expressing her opinion is forcing her opinion down others' throats, does that apply to anyone expressing an opinion different to yours?

Society itself dictates what is and is not acceptable. and as a member of society we all have the right to an opinion. You may disagree with other peoples opinion and can argue counter to it as is your right. But to try and censure someone else for their opinion is an extremely counter productive action which often strengthens and closes the mindset of the person censured

[WOMBAI]

Whilst I agree with what your opinion on this subject, this is a somewhat harsh response given its a forum for debate, and in your eyes zotler expressing her opinion is forcing her opinion down others' throats, does that apply to anyone expressing an opinion different to yours?

Society itself dictates what is and is not acceptable. and as a member of society we all have the right to an opinion. You may disagree with other peoples opinion and can argue counter to it as is your right. But to try and censure someone else for their opinion is an extremely counter productive action which often strengthens and closes the mindset of the person censured

I guess you have a point - maybe I was a bit OTT in my response! It is an emotive subject and one which creates strong views. Of course people are entitled to their opinions on the subject - but when they support legislation that would force that opinion down the throats of others - having devastating effects on their lives - that is like a red rag to a bull I'm afraid!

[Shasown]

I guess you have a point - maybe I was a bit OTT in my response! It is an emotive subject and one which creates strong views. Of course people are entitled to their opinions on the subject - but when they support legislation that would force that opinion down the throats of others - having devastating effects on their lives - that is like a red rag to a bull I'm afraid!

Yes it is a very emotive subject, for both sides, dont forget the pro life lobby argue on the fact that abortion is murder of another human regardless of the fact they are unborn. So in their eyes they stand on the moral high ground quoting the sanctity of life, all life as opposed to murder for convenience. If only it were that simple.

Interestingly enough the proposed legislation, and it isnt even really proposed yet, just a vote spinner from Cameron, talks only of an as yet unspecified lowering of the time limit.

[Lewis.]

I'm Pro-Choice.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I am pro letting parents have more say than childless people

[Zippy]

I am pro letting parents have more say than childless people

Huh? I don't see any good reason for that distinction.

[WOMBAI]

I am pro letting parents have more say than childless people

Are you a parent?

[Niamh.]

I couldn't commit to either as like Wombai said life is rarly black and white. I would lean more on the pro life side though.

[Sophii3x]

I'm more pro-life than pro-choice.. I could never do it myself.

[lily.]

Pro-Choice.

Adoption is not an alternative to abortion. Anyone who's ever gone through a pregnancy can testify to the fact that it's no picnic. If the baby is unwanted, why on earth would any woman put her body through 9 months of hell to give the baby away for he/she to possibly spend the rest of his/her life in the care system.

That said, I personally couldn't go through with a termination, as I wouldn't be able to deal with it emotionally.


Here's an old debate on this issue:
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30179

[WOMBAI]

I'm more pro-life than pro-choice.. I could never do it myself.

And that would be your CHOICE - just as those that would do it, if necessary, have the right to the same CHOICE!

[Vicky.]

Pro-choice

Though I think the limit should be lowered...drastically. With obvious exceptions...if the mother/babies life is in danger etc.


This is a very raw issue with me at the minute actually, one of my 'mates' recently had an abortion because she wanted to drink and have fun. Nothing else. Also, she is continuing sleeping with random guys. Needless to say I dont think very highly of her now.

THAT, I dont agree with. But at the end of the day, its her life I guess.

[Niamh.]

Pro-choice

Though I think the limit should be lowered...drastically. With obvious exceptions...if the mother/babies life is in danger etc.


This is a very raw issue with me at the minute actually, one of my 'mates' recently had an abortion because she wanted to drink and have fun. Nothing else. Also, she is continuing sleeping with random guys. Needless to say I dont think very highly of her now.

THAT, I dont agree with. But at the end of the day, its her life I guess.

yeah, that's the problem I have with abortion, people using it as a form of contraception. I don't think I would ever be able to do it myself but I wouldn't condem anyone for doing it but think it should be a difficult decision for someone to make and a serious one.

[Vicky.]

yeah, that's the problem I have with abortion, people using it as a form of contraception. I don't think I would ever be able to do it myself but I wouldn't condem anyone for doing it but think it should be a difficult decision for someone to make and a serious one.

If there had been other reasons...like she wasnt ready for a baby or whatever, it wouldnt be so bad. Its just that it was 'I dont want to stop drinking, Im getting rid'. I get so mad when I see her now...its awful.

[WOMBAI]

yeah, that's the problem I have with abortion, people using it as a form of contraception. I don't think I would ever be able to do it myself but I wouldn't condem anyone for doing it but think it should be a difficult decision for someone to make and a serious one.

I think to stop people using it as a form of contraception - it might be a good idea to make women and the men, if known, pay for them after they have had so many - maybe 2 or 3 - on the NHS!

The NHS could operate a type of 'credit' system in those cases - where the money for the op has to be paid back, with interest, and it should be a debt that can be enforced by the use of bailiffs etc, automatically deducted from wages or benefits and also enforced through the courts - with ultimate sanctions being prison! If rigidly enforced - people will soon stop using abortion that way - if they have to pay for it!

[Niamh.]

I think to stop people using it as a form of contraception - it might be a good idea to make women and the men, if known, pay for them after they have had so many - maybe 2 or 3 - on the NHS!

The NHS could operate a type of 'credit' system in those cases - where the money for the op has to be paid back, with interest, and it should be a debt that can be enforced by the use of bailiffs etc, automatically deducted from wages or benefits and also enforced through the courts - with ultimate sanctions being prison! If rigidly enforced - people will soon stop using abortion that way - if they have to pay for it!

yeah, that sounds like a good idea, with the exception of course of it being for medical reasons like the baby or mothers life was in danger

[WOMBAI]

yeah, that sounds like a good idea, with the exception of course of it being for medical reasons like the baby or mothers life was in danger

Naturally - medical reasons are completely legitimate reasons for termination on the NHS!

[Jords]

Was gonna ask what the terms meant but Im guessing:
Pro Choice = Abortion Allowable
Pro Life = Abortion Not Allowable
?

Imo, abortion should be acceptable if the mother is in danger by giving birth (double effect), cannot afford to bring up a baby and did use contraception, became pregnant due to rape or if the baby will be born with serious disabilites.

If used as a form of contraception (i.e. didnt use any whilst having sex), then Im not so up for it, but more Pro Choice.

[GypsyGoth]

Was gonna ask what the terms meant but Im guessing:
Pro Choice = Abortion Allowable
Pro Life = Abortion Not Allowable
?


Yep.


I'm Pro-Choice.

[Beastie]

Pro choice.

However the limit should be lowered from 24 weeks to.. well not sure.. to 3 or 4 months?

Mmm however for myself I am more to pro life.. I could not go through with an abortion.

I am surprised abortion is illegal in Ireland. However more contraception has to be used. Use the condom AND pill if you are weary you could get pregnant.

[Niamh.]

Pro choice.

However the limit should be lowered from 24 weeks to.. well not sure.. to 3 or 4 months?

Mmm however for myself I am more to pro life.. I could not go through with an abortion.

I am surprised abortion is illegal in Ireland. However more contraception has to be used. Use the condom AND pill if you are weary you could get pregnant.

I think it's good that it's illegal here, atleast if a girl wants to have an abortion she can travel to England to do it but because it's such an ordeal and expense to have to do it she might not be as careless in the future (talking about girls who get pregnant because of un protected sex here btw)

[Stacey.]

Was gonna ask what the terms meant but Im guessing:
Pro Choice = Abortion Allowable
Pro Life = Abortion Not Allowable
?



lmao, at least you had an idea! and it was right!!
i had to search them on google :blush:

[Shasown]

There is no restriction time wise on abortion for genuine life threatening conditions, whereby the life of the mother would be threatened by full term gestation and delivery.

It should be noted that most abortions actually take place very early in the pregnancy, from 2006 figures for England and Wales :

89% of abortions were carried out at under 13 weeks gestation; 68% were at under 10 weeks, and over 95% of abortions are carried out before 19 weeks

Later abortions consist almost exclusively of abortions because of congenital deformities of the foetus, on medical advice.

If women who used abortions as a means of contraception were asked to pay for this service, you would see an increase in the number of backstreet and diy abortions.


Currently abortions are classified since 1991 as follows:

Non Emergency
A - the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk to the life of the pregnant women greater than if the pregnancy were terminated.
B - the termination is necessary to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman.
C - the pregnancy has NOT exceeded its 24th week and that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman.
D - the pregnancy has NOT exceeded its 24th week and that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the existing child(ren) of the family of the pregnant woman
E - there is substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped.

Emergency
F - it was necessary to save the life of the woman.
G - it was necessary to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman.

The argument for lowering the time limit is based simply upon the fact that most physical and mental abnormalities of the developing foetus can be detected a lot earlier and a higher proportion of premature babies born after 22-24 weeks surviving with good quality of life.

[Crimson Dynamo]

everyone always goes on about Rape like this is a regular occurrence

does anyone know how many women were successfully impregnated from a rape in the last say 10 years?

[pinkmichk]

i agree with laura and brona i'm very much pro life in my own life but if someone i know has one (i have 2 friends who have) i havent held it against them cos like i say pro life is my views they obviously have theirs

[Niamh.]

everyone always goes on about Rape like this is a regular occurrence

does anyone know how many women were successfully impregnated from a rape in the last say 10 years?

What exactly does that have to do with anything LT?

[Crimson Dynamo]

What exactly does that have to do with anything LT?

Every debate about abortion always gets this thrown at it when it is a tiny tiny percentage of cases that are outwith general legislation and have no part in the debate.

It would be similar to having a debate about getting rid of red traffic lights because you may have to go through one to save someone from committing suicide.

[Niamh.]

Every debate about abortion always gets this thrown at it when it is a tiny tiny percentage of cases that are outwith general legislation and have no part in the debate.

It would be similar to having a debate about getting rid of red traffic lights because you may have to go through one to save someone from committing suicide.

Not at all, for example I would say I would never ever have an abortion but would always add that I had never been raped so could not say for definate if I would or wouldn't if I became pregnant as result of that. It may be unlikely but it is not impossible either LT so of course it can be brought into the discussion

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not at all, for example I would say I would never ever have an abortion but would always add that I had never been raped so could not say for definate if I would or wouldn't if I became pregnant as result of that. It may be unlikely but it is not impossible either LT so of course it can be brought into the discussion

:conf:

[Angus]

Pro choice.

BUT I do have a really big problem with girls/women who see abortion as a method of contraception almost and treat it like it's nothing. And I think the legal time frame needs bringing down to less than 20 weeks also, apart from when there is risk to either the mother or child by continuing with the pregnancy.


Agree. But in this day and age there is absolutely no excuse to get pregnant if you don't want to. Also some women don't seem to understand that an abortion can have huge pyschological ramifications in years to come, and sometimes physical ones in that the opportunity to become pregnant when you are good and ready may never present itself in the future, since abortions (particularly multiple abortions) can affect your future fertility.

[WOMBAI]

People are always entitled to their own opinions, of course, but as soon as people start attempting to legislate against abortion - that is when they start trying to force their opinion on others - and that is what I can't abide!

[Niamh.]

People are always entitled to their own opinions, of course, but as soon as people start attempting to legislate against abortion - that is when they start trying to force their opinion on others - and that is what I can't abide!

But I suppose if these people are that anti-abortion they see it as not their opinion but rather preventing murder.

[Angus]

But I suppose if these people are that anti-abortion they see it as not their opinion but rather preventing murder.

With modern technology it is now viable for even a 22 week foetus to survive, so I would say that to abort any later than this could be construed as murder. However, I believe the law does not recognise the foetus as a human being, so therefore no murder charge could be brought, so it is still a matter for an individual's conscience.

Personally, I believe that life begins with conception and that to abort a baby at any stage of gestation is morally wrong - BUT that is only my personal opinion which I would never presume to foist on anyone else.

As for the recent newspaper article suggesting we allow premature babies to die since any medical intervention is somehow interfering with nature, I am frankly gobsmacked. This is blatantly hypocrital since, according to this view, a conceived child would have the expectation of being born if nature were to take its course.

Should we then allow ALL people with serious illnesses or injuries to just die on the grounds that "nature should take its course" even though we have the medical technology to save such people? Seems the government have missed a trick if they want to cut NHS spending!

[Niamh.]

With modern technology it is now viable for even a 22 week foetus to survive, so I would say that to abort any later than this could be construed as murder. However, I believe the law does not recognise the foetus as a human being, so therefore no murder charge could be brought, so it is still a matter for an individual's conscience.

Personally, I believe that life begins with conception and that to abort a baby at any stage of gestation is morally wrong - BUT that is only my personal opinion which I would never presume to foist on anyone else.

As for the recent newspaper article suggesting we allow premature babies to die since any medical intervention is somehow interfering with nature, I am frankly gobsmacked. This is blatantly hypocrital since, according to this view, a conceived child would have the expectation of being born if nature were to take its course.

Should we then allow ALL people with serious illnesses or injuries to just die on the grounds that "nature should take its course" even though we have the medical technology to save such people? Seems the government have missed a trick if they want to cut NHS spending!

I agree with you absolutely, I was simply saying that some people feel so strongly about the fact that it's murder than it is not simply "forcing their view" on people