Teacher 'shouted die, die, die'

[Shasown]

A science teacher shouted "die, die, die" as he bludgeoned one of his pupils about the head with a dumbbell during a lesson, a court has heard.

Peter Harvey is accused of battering the 14-year-old boy as he attempted to regain control of his lesson, which was in a state of "uproar" at All Saints Roman Catholic School in Mansfield, Nottinghamshire.

Moments before the 50-year-old launched his attack, the boy was playing volleyball with screwed up bits of paper before sword-fighting with metre-long rulers in a game of "high jinks".

The class was in chaos, with pupils calling the teacher a "psycho" after he threw out one 14-year-old girl who was messing about with window blinds. She stormed out crying, calling him a "bald-headed bastard" in front of classmates, Nottingham Crown Court was told.

One pupil secretly filmed Harvey, deemed a "soft touch" by students, with a camcorder to "humiliate" him as he tried to regain control of his lesson on July 8 last year.

In the video he could be heard shouting at his alleged victim to stop fighting with the wooden ruler, one of many occasions when teenagers would "push the boundaries" in his lessons. In the film, Harvey can be heard shouting: "Put it back or you'll regret it. Put it back now. Put it back where it came from, not there."

Moments later he grabbed the youngster by the collar and dragged him out of the classroom into a nearby preparation room on the second floor of the school's science block.

Stuart Rafferty QC, prosecuting, said Harvey, a married father-of-two, hit the boy about the head with the 3kg weight, leaving him unconscious with a fractured skull and severe cuts. Mr Rafferty said: "He struck at least two blows to the head which caused serious injury, really serious injury. At the time the blows were being struck Mr Harvey was only heard to say one thing. What he was saying was 'die, die, die'."

The barrister added: "No one can say for one moment what happened to this boy was deserved or justified. What he (Harvey) did was grossly disproportionate to the wrong inflicted on him by the boy or other members of the class. There was simply no excuse for what happened."

Harvey, who appeared in the dock dressed in a beige suit and brown tie, has already admitted causing grievous bodily harm without intent. Prosecutors are seeking to prove he knew what he was doing when he attacked the boy. They claim it is attempted murder but if the jury rejects this, Harvey could be found guilty of an alternative charge of grievous bodily harm with intent.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100426/tuk-teacher-shouted-die-die-die-6323e80.html



Who knows maybe if all teachers behaved this way, there would be less problems with the youth of today?

[arista]

Who knows maybe if all teachers behaved this way, there would be less problems with the youth of today?



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1268918/Teacher-Peter-Harvey-yelled-Die-die-die-beat-pupil-dumbbell.html



Yes he was set up.
Sad case.

[InOne]

Kids can be real ***** these days tbh. Suprised it has not happened more often.

[Shaun]

Hero.

[King Gizzard]

-searches for a facebook support group-

[Scarlett.]

because bashing a pupil over the head with a blunt object is a suitable way of punishing a pupil :rolleyes:

[M X]

Who knows maybe if all teachers behaved this way, there would be less problems with the youth of today?

yeah. if only all teachers would attempt to kill their students, leaving them with a fractured skull, the world would be a better place.

[Mrluvaluva]

I remember a thread about this from last year. Someone posted in it who knew him.


http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96268&highlight=peter+harvey

[Stephanie]

meh, i don't blame him.

[Twilight]

Yeah i'm sure trying to kill them is suitable way to punish a pupil, Right :rolleyes:

[Tom4784]

because bashing a pupil over the head with a blunt object is a suitable way of punishing a pupil :rolleyes:

This, Kids are demonised too much these days it's shocking. Send the *****er down.

[Beastie]

Yeah a lot of kids are bastards and get away with too much! It depends how this **** was really like? Bring back the cane, bring back disipline, clean the streets.. HOW? SHOOT THE BASTARD SCUMMY CHAVS!

Sorted :)

[setanta]

Everybody has a breaking point. To survive a war, you've go to become war.

Look, it was bound to happen. Sign of the Times as Arista would say.

[Lucy.]

Okay so it's not right for him to try and kill him, but it's the little bastards fault for being an idiot!

[InOne]

Yeah a lot of kids are bastards and get away with too much! It depends how this **** was really like? Bring back the cane, bring back disipline, clean the streets.. HOW? SHOOT THE BASTARD SCUMMY CHAVS!

Sorted :)

Yep plenty of chavs need a good kick in.

[Jack_]

Whilst I don't condone violence of any kind, I don't condone behaviour like the little ***** showed.

Kids like them make me sick. I hope they all end up living on the streets, because that's what they deserve. Scum. Absolute scum.

[CaraRawr]

Okay so it's not right for him to try and kill him, but it's the little bastards fault for being an idiot!

this.

[Angus]

Everyone has a breaking point and the fact that this teacher was subjected to the vile persistent misbehaviour and abuse from children, who are very aware they are over protected by the law, should be taken into account as a mitigating factor since he clearly reached breaking point.

Having said that, I truly believe that trainee teachers should be psychologically assessed for their suitability to teach and leadership qualities, and that should include anger management training and role playing scenarios. Furthermore, it is quite different teaching 5 year olds than 15 year olds. Teachers need to be graded as to their suitability to teach specific age groups, not by what THEY (the teachers) want to do. It is doing a massive disservice to our children to subject them to rubbish teachers who cannot gain the respect of their class in order to maintain control and facilitate learning. Some of the worst troublemakers in schools are from dysfunctional families who don't bring their kids up properly, and who delegate the responsibility for doing so to schools, government, social services,educational psychologists, child carers etc, in fact anyone other than themselves.

[Scarlett.]

The "he snapped" excuse is just silly, he tried to kill a student.

Lets put it this way, if a kid is bullied for years and finally decides to take a gun into school and shoot it up because he snapped...is that acceptable? Obviously thats a far cry for this case, but the basic principle remains

[Crimson Dynamo]

Okay so it's not right for him to try and kill him, but it's the little bastards fault for being an idiot!

this^

[Angus]

Although I agree with some of what you say - I think you make somewhat of a sweeping statement! Yes a lot of difficult children do come from difficult families and haven't been give the right guidance - but there are a lot of children with behaviour problems that come from perfectly good families. Some children are just difficult - strong, confrontational personalities etc - and I don't think it helps when people attempt to fit difficult children, and their families into such neat little boxes and attaching certain labels!


Families can be dysfunctional without necessarily being "difficult", and the worst offenders for labelling children tend to be the middle classes who tend to attribute virtually all antisocial behaviour from their offspring to a variety of psychological and neurological disorders, rather than accept that their little Johnny is out of control, or badly behaved due to their own lack of parenting skills. Too many parents want to be their kids' friend instead of nurturing, guiding and disciplining them. Kids don't need more friends, they need strong, reliable, consistent parenting, supported by good teachers. How can you expect good behaviour from children in school, if it is not expected from them at home?

[Beastie]

Although I agree with some of what you say - I think you make somewhat of a sweeping statement! Yes a lot of difficult children do come from difficult families and haven't been give the right guidance - but there are a lot of children with behaviour problems that come from perfectly good families. Some children are just difficult - strong, confrontational personalities etc - and I don't think it helps when people attempt to fit difficult children, and their families into such neat little boxes and attaching certain labels!

There needs to be more discipline. A lot of parents are lazier now. There needs to be more strict parenting.. children get away with a lot these days..

[Beastie]

You need to be strict as a parent when the child is at an early age!! so then the child.. how long it takes get what the difference is between right and wrong in their heads and as they get older they will know what behaviour is acceptable and what isn't.

I do think Youth Clubs and that should maybe be brought back? or not.. I mean yeah there is not much to do for children aged 11-16.. but there is.. you get outside and throw a frizbee all day..... lol

[Niamh.]

Obviously he shouldn't have done it but by the sounds of it, it seems like a case of temporary insanity if ever I heard one. Teachers shouldn't have to deal with kids who are out of control and unruly, he's there to teach, I doubt this is what he signed up for when he took a teaching job.

[Tom4784]

The support for him sickens me really, for the older members how about if it was your child that got his head beaten in? You wouldn't be defending him then. If he could have been pushed to such a point by school children then he should never have set foot in a classroom alltogether or removed himself from the situation to calm down. At the end of the day it's a 14 YEAR OLD lad by saying he started it or had it coming you're condoning the fact he nearly got beaten to death whether you want to or not.

Chewy's got a good point, if it was the opposite way round then the student would be crucified by the press and hated because in today's world the media demonises youth, it's shocking and interesting if you ever get the chance to look into it but ultimately it's sad and terrifying how much the youth of today are hated due to media pressure. I remember looking into it when I was researching something called the Magic Bullet Theory when I did Media, fascinating stuff although it's depressing how much hate comes from it, some of the responses towards children are shocking because of it.

[Niamh.]

You need to be strict as a parent when the child is at an early age!! so then the child.. how long it takes get what the difference is between right and wrong in their heads and as they get older they will know what behaviour is acceptable and what isn't.

I do think Youth Clubs and that should maybe be brought back? or not.. I mean yeah there is not much to do for children aged 11-16.. but there is.. you get outside and throw a frizbee all day..... lol

Yeah I don't get that whole there's nothing for 11-16 year olds to do bit at all, there even less for us to do when we were kids!

[Beastie]

Obviously he shouldn't have done it but by the sounds of it, it seems like a case of temporary insanity if ever I heard one. Teachers shouldn't have to deal with kids who are out of control and unruly, he's there to teach, I doubt this is what he signed up for when he took a teaching job.

Yeah true.. I feel sorry for teachers.. maybe there should be an allocated bouncer for each classroom? lol

[Beastie]

Yeah I don't get that whole there's nothing for 11-16 year olds to do bit at all, there even less for us to do when we were kids!

Yeah I suppose.. really at them ages.. just hanged at friends house.. went to the park or whatever.. did things as what I did as a kid.. however back then I was very naive and still like a kid.. but a lot of children grow up way too fast! There is no need.. I think they should do the kiddy stuff for as long as they can.

Well you do kiddy things all your life.. but yeah children get influenced by the bad stuff even more now.. like drinking from an early age.. smoking.. having sex!! etc!!

[InOne]

Yeah I suppose.. really at them ages.. just hanged at friends house.. went to the park or whatever.. did things as what I did as a kid.. however back then I was very naive and still like a kid.. but a lot of children grow up way too fast! There is no need.. I think they should do the kiddy stuff for as long as they can.

Well you do kiddy things all your life.. but yeah children get influenced by the bad stuff even more now.. like drinking from an early age.. smoking.. having sex!! etc!!

There was quite alot of stuff going on when I was growing up really, had like 3 Youth clubs kicking about, was always in the park and stuff. Not smoking or drinking lol playing footy n that xD Used to be out for ours. Kids can't entertain themselves these days.

[Beastie]

There was quite alot of stuff going on when I was growing up really, had like 3 Youth clubs kicking about, was always in the park and stuff. Not smoking or drinking lol playing footy n that xD Used to be out for ours. Kids can't entertain themselves these days.

Lol nope they can't.. well they entertain themselves by bunking off school and drinking cider on the street corner.. lol

[setanta]

I'm actually surprised that it doesn't happen more often, what with the disintegration of the family unit and culture in general, plus I would imagine that teachers don't have the kinda support structure in place to cope with the kind of emotional damage this kinda behaviour can have on them. Now don't get me wrong; I'm not condoning this man's reaction - it's entirely unjustifiable- but I can only imagine the kind of mental torment that would happen as a result of this continued unruly and destructive behaviour.

[InOne]

Kids also lie alot about teachers as well, sexual advances, threats of violence and violence.

[Beastie]

Kids also lie alot about teachers as well, sexual advances, threats of violence and violence.

Is that what you did Joe when the hot blonde 30 something female teacher turned you down? ;) lol

[Beastie]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ybQtsbIk5Kc/Ror_w6d5VGI/AAAAAAAAAC8/xVnxONyMPzc/s320/hot-ass-teacher.jpg

Who wants a bit of Sexual Education?

[InOne]

Is that what you did Joe when the hot blonde 30 something female teacher turned you down? ;) lol

Who said she turned me down? ;)

[arista]

The support for him sickens me really, for the older members how about if it was your child that got his head beaten in? You wouldn't be defending him then. If he could have been pushed to such a point by school children then he should never have set foot in a classroom alltogether or removed himself from the situation to calm down. At the end of the day it's a 14 YEAR OLD lad by saying he started it or had it coming you're condoning the fact he nearly got beaten to death whether you want to or not.

Chewy's got a good point, if it was the opposite way round then the student would be crucified by the press and hated because in today's world the media demonises youth, it's shocking and interesting if you ever get the chance to look into it but ultimately it's sad and terrifying how much the youth of today are hated due to media pressure. I remember looking into it when I was researching something called the Magic Bullet Theory when I did Media, fascinating stuff although it's depressing how much hate comes from it, some of the responses towards children are shocking because of it.


This Gang Set Him Up
they wanted him to go Crazy.

They were Evil Kids.


Get Real Dezzy.

[Billy]

Times like this I wish the chokey was real.
The brat deserved it.

[Lucy.]

This Gang Set Him Up
they wanted him to go Crazy.

They were Evil Kids.


Get Real Dezzy.

Personally i think they sound exactly like the boys who torchered Jamie Bulger.

[InOne]

Personally i think they sound exactly like the boys who torchered Jamie Bulger.

Calling them Psychopathic Sadists might be going a tad far, but who knows...

[Lucy.]

Calling them Psychopathic Sadists might be going a tad far, but who knows...

Perhaps, but then again you could say the same about the boys who killed Jamie. They had a bad upbringing too so maybe it's all along the same lines.

[InOne]

Perhaps, but then again you could say the same about the boys who killed Jamie. They had a bad upbringing too so maybe it's all along the same lines.

Sometimes upbringing does not have anything to do with it. People are just like that anyway.

[Lucy.]

Sometimes upbringing does not have anything to do with it. People are just like that anyway.

Born barmy.

[InOne]

Born barmy.

One way of putting it I guess, but legally Psychopaths are not classed as insane.

[Scarlett.]

Personally i think they sound exactly like the boys who torchered Jamie Bulger.

You're kidding right?

Anyway, like I said, regardless of why he snapped, he snapped, and almost killed a person, I mean really, why are you guys sticking up for him?

[Mrluvaluva]

Sometimes upbringing does not have anything to do with it. People are just like that anyway.

I think it's a combination of both. Sometimes kids aren't raised in the best way they can be, as the parents don't care, but there must be something wrong with them in the first place to carry out acts like James Bulgers killers for instance. Normal kids just don't do things like that. Most know he difference between right and wrong and could not even imagine such things.

[Lucy.]

You're kidding right?

Anyway, like I said, regardless of why he snapped, he snapped, and almost killed a person, I mean really, why are you guys sticking up for him?

I'm not sticking up for him. He was a ****head he should be punished but so should the boys who made it their 'fun' to torture him.

[InOne]

I think it's a combination of both. Sometimes kids aren't raised in the best way they can be, as the parents don't care, but there must be something wrong with them in the first place to carry out acts like James Bulgers killers for instance. Normal kids just don't do things like that. Most know he difference between right and wrong and could not even imagine such things.

It is a combination of both with extreme cases i'd say. But there is always something different in there from the very start. It's more than just a personality disorder. I guess the upbringing most likely determines if they will turn out violent or not.

[Niamh.]

You're kidding right?

Anyway, like I said, regardless of why he snapped, he snapped, and almost killed a person, I mean really, why are you guys sticking up for him?

I wasn't really sticking up for him as such but I could see how a temporary insanity claim might be valid in this case

[Scarlett.]

I'm not sticking up for him. He was a ****head he should be punished but so should the boys who made it their 'fun' to torture him.
Well good, and yeah, the boys do deserve punishment, though I think the boy who was nearly killed has had enough punishment

[Billy]

The "he snapped" excuse is just silly, he tried to kill a student.

Lets put it this way, if a kid is bullied for years and finally decides to take a gun into school and shoot it up because he snapped...is that acceptable? Obviously thats a far cry for this case, but the basic principle remains

Maybe not, but if a kid was bullied for years and say one day in P.E he received loads of abuse from someone, if he picked up a hockey stick and started bashing the bully with it, I wouldn't blame them.

[Lucy.]

Well good, and yeah, the boys do deserve punishment, though I think the boy who was nearly killed has had enough punishment

Meh. I think he has if he actually learns a lesson from it. Physical violence doesn't always change people's thought processes, if his desire to act that way is imbrained in him a near death experience isn't likely to change that. He needs therapy.

[Mrluvaluva]

It is a combination of both with extreme cases i'd say. But there is always something different in there from the very start. It's more than just a personality disorder. I guess the upbringing most likely determines if they will turn out violent or not.

Well yeah, it was an extreme case I was referring to. Kids will be kids, but in the case of this story, they went way too far. Although I do not condone what the teacher did, he obviously snapped after years of putting up with this. It's not an exclusive case. People have thresholds. I don't think he pre-planned it. That's why we have murder and manslaughter.

[Lucy.]

Well yeah, it was an extreme case I was referring to. Kids will be kids, but in the case of this story, they went way too far. Although I do not condone what the teacher did, he obviously snapped after years of putting up with this. It's not an exclusive case. People have thresholds. I don't think he pre-planned it. That's why we have murder and manslaughter.

I agree totally. In reality, that teacher will probably feel absoloutly awful for what's he done. Everyone does things in the heat of the moment. I don't think any of us can really judge how he felt without having experiencd it.

[Shasown]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ybQtsbIk5Kc/Ror_w6d5VGI/AAAAAAAAAC8/xVnxONyMPzc/s320/hot-ass-teacher.jpg

Who wants a bit of Sexual Education?

Yes please but could you wear those glossy black holdups as well.

[InOne]

Well yeah, it was an extreme case I was referring to. Kids will be kids, but in the case of this story, they went way too far. Although I do not condone what the teacher did, he obviously snapped after years of putting up with this. It's not an exclusive case. People have thresholds. I don't think he pre-planned it. That's why we have murder and manslaughter.

Very much so. And it wasmost likely subconsciously building up, a 'moment of madness' kinda thing. I'm not saying I understand the pressures of teaching or anything but I know it must be pretty hard, especially with what some of the teachers put up with when I was at school. Kids do target teachers they think are a soft touch and do get off on making their lessons hell. Obviously it's wrong the way the teacher reacted, but I doubt he's a bad man or anything.

[Mrluvaluva]

There's a lot of info in the original thread I posted on the first page. The teacher had only returned to work, weeks before this happened, after suffering a stroke brought on by stress.

[Shasown]

Extreme stress can make people react in very different ways, some commit suicide, others work against it and cope becoming stronger, others still lash out at what they perceive the protagonists of the stress, in this case the youth who he blamed as the ringleader of the bullies.

I just feel lucky I have never been in that sort of situation nor felt the need to react to that sort of provocation. Who knows how anyone would react. Needless to say there will be the usual calls for a full inquiry into the school and local education authority, stress managements programs for teachers etc. But once again nothing will be done about the poor little children.

[BB_Eye]

He should have strangled that crying, whinging bitch who stormed out. :)

[BB_Eye]

In all seriousness though, I completely sympathise with his situation, but personally I blame the useless parents of the sorts of vermin that pass for secondary school pupils these days more than the education system although the tail is very much wagging the dog in that department too.

[Jack_]

but I also think the little sh**ts involved should be expelled from the school!

Do you honestly think they'd care about that?

More like they should be expelled from anywhere that puts a roof over their head.

[Lucy.]

she left the profession because of the behaviour of youngsters today - it is common knowledge what many are like!


I completely agree. I know about people who have been driven to quit the profession because the students have been so atrrocious that it's been made physically and mentally unbearable for the staff. It's disgusting it really is.
We have a maths teacher at school who is bullied so badly, she breaks down in the middle of lessons.

[Angus]

Hark at the prosecuters trying to prove that it was with intent - don't believe that for a minute - he just lost control! Teenagers, particularly those today, who are more spoilt and allowed to get away with a lot more - can be absolute sh**ts - and as someone previously mentioned, I am surprised it doesn't happen more often! I have a cousin who is a French teacher - and she left the profession because of the behaviour of youngsters today - it is common knowledge what many are like!

That said - I, of course, don't approve of his actions - and he has to bear the consequences of that, whatever they may be - but I also think the little sh**ts involved should be expelled from the school!

I remember when my son was in junior school, a boy was expelled for bringing a knife into school and threatening his teacher. His reward? A private tutor, and bags of time off to roam around the streets causing trouble, then hanging round the school gates at home time and intimidating the same kids he had bullied in school?

[Lucy.]

To me, nowadays being a teacher sounds less enjoyable than working in waste disposal.
You get more **** from the kids!

[*mazedsalv**]

How can people even defend the teachers actions?? Most 14 years old do stuff like that, around 90% or more i would say, so your saying that this is suitable? Ohh yeah sure, most students would be dead by now if you think thats a stuitable punishment.

Chucking out a girl for playing with blinds, WTF and hitting a student with 3kg weights. ****ing psycho.

I was one of those students when I was between the age of 12-14. I guess if i went to that school i would be dead. The pupils did go too far but other punishments would have been much better.

[BB_Eye]

How can people even defend the teachers actions?? Most 14 years old do stuff like that, around 90% or more i would say, so your saying that this is suitable? Ohh yeah sure, most students would be dead by now if you think thats a stuitable punishment.

Chucking out a girl for playing with blinds, WTF and hitting a student with 3kg weights. ****ing psycho.

No one is saying it is a suitable punishment. Just that the pupils in that classroom are total vermin who deserve zero sympathy.

[zotler.]

How can people even defend the teachers actions?? Most 14 years old do stuff like that, around 90% or more i would say, so your saying that this is suitable? Ohh yeah sure, most students would be dead by now if you think thats a stuitable punishment.

Chucking out a girl for playing with blinds, WTF and hitting a student with 3kg weights. ****ing psycho.

I was one of those students when I was between the age of 12-14. I guess if i went to that school i would be dead. The pupils did go too far but other punishments would have been much better.
Considering that most schools tolerate a "no physical violence" policy, yes, another punishment would've been better suited. At my school, if were to do something like that, we would get an extremely long period of isolation, where we have to sit in a room on our own to do classwork. (Yeah, I suppose this is an EXTREME case) It's usually quite affective. Honestly, if you can't handle the fact that some children WILL try to piss you off, then you're not suited to be a teacher.
I think the easier it is to get on a teacher's nerves, the more the students will try do it. My Statistics teacher gets pissed off really easily, so most people act up in her lesson and it ends up consisting of her sending people out, threatening to give detentions and send yellow/red cards home.
I also notice how the generally nice teachers don't seem to get much trouble, at least, not in my lessons.

[Mrluvaluva]

How can people even defend the teachers actions?? Most 14 years old do stuff like that, around 90% or more i would say, so your saying that this is suitable? Ohh yeah sure, most students would be dead by now if you think thats a stuitable punishment.

Chucking out a girl for playing with blinds, WTF and hitting a student with 3kg weights. ****ing psycho.

I was one of those students when I was between the age of 12-14. I guess if i went to that school i would be dead. The pupils did go too far but other punishments would have been much better.

Personally, as I have said already in this thread, I do not condone his actions. Most rational people would either have shouted at him, or even throw a board duster (if they still exist). The teacher obviously had issues, and he snapped, due to continuous provocation. "People are going to die" are not the words of a rational man. He had only been back at school a few weeks after suffering a stroke brought on by stress. These kids full well knew this, and yet still continued berating him.

The boy obviously did not deserve his ordeal, but he had a part to play in this. It's unfortunately one of those incidents when the brain goes haywire. We can all understand how we lose our temper, and become irrational sometimes, just not on this scale.

The kids still need to be punished. The problem will not go away without some form of discipline.

[Angus]

How can people even defend the teachers actions?? Most 14 years old do stuff like that, around 90% or more i would say, so your saying that this is suitable? Ohh yeah sure, most students would be dead by now if you think thats a stuitable punishment.

Chucking out a girl for playing with blinds, WTF and hitting a student with 3kg weights. ****ing psycho.

I was one of those students when I was between the age of 12-14. I guess if i went to that school i would be dead. The pupils did go too far but other punishments would have been much better.


Actually no, it's not true that most 14 year olds do "stuff like that" - there are far more that actually would like the chance to learn something but are prevented from doing so by moronic attention-seeking 14 yr olds, acting like 5year olds.

[karezza]

Peter Harvey is a typical teacher - he can't teach, he hates his job & he doesn't like children.

[arista]

Peter Harvey walked
free from Court today.


The Judge confirmed he will get a Community Service Order soon.


BREAKING NEWS: Teacher who attacked pupil with dumb bell
in science class cleared of attempted murder

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1269833/Dumbell-attack-teacher-Peter-Harvey-cleared-attempted-murder.html#ixzz0mVR8oxuP

[BigBrotherfan4ever]

Peter Harvey walked
free from Court today.


The Judge confirmed he will get a Community Service Order soon.


BREAKING NEWS: Teacher who attacked pupil with dumb bell
in science class cleared of attempted murder

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1269833/Dumbell-attack-teacher-Peter-Harvey-cleared-attempted-murder.html#ixzz0mVR8oxuP

I've just seen that on the news:shocked:

[InOne]

Peter Harvey walked
free from Court today.


The Judge confirmed he will get a Community Service Order soon.


BREAKING NEWS: Teacher who attacked pupil with dumb bell
in science class cleared of attempted murder

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1269833/Dumbell-attack-teacher-Peter-Harvey-cleared-attempted-murder.html#ixzz0mVR8oxuP

Good. I'm glad the jury saw both sides.

[*mazedsalv**]

Actually no, it's not true that most 14 year olds do "stuff like that" - there are far more that actually would like the chance to learn something but are prevented from doing so by moronic attention-seeking 14 yr olds, acting like 5year olds.

Everyone I know acted up at that age, not even one person would want to learn at that age. Its all about other stuff that we found more important. I and my friends would never take education seriously at that age and that is the general feeling of the schools around the London area... but there are SOME 14 year olds who would like to study but thats in different areas.

Even an intelligent kid who loved education would at some point during this age misbehave, its puberty. 14 year olds think that everything is more important that education. Thank God I and all i know got our heads together when we reached 16 and all acchieved good grades.

Even some of my teatchers say it. They said to me, they would gladly reject teaching a class of Year 9's (13-14 year olds) but would love to teach 16+.

I was attention seeking at that age and was a chav, its a phase, most get out of it by the time you reach the age of 16.

[Angus]

Everyone I know acted up at that age, not even one person would want to learn at that age. Its all about other stuff that we found more important. I and my friends would never take education seriously at that age and that is the general feeling of the schools around the London area... but there are SOME 14 year olds who would like to study but thats in different areas.

Even an intelligent kid who loved education would at some point during this age misbehave, its puberty. 14 year olds think that everything is more important that education. Thank God I and all i know got our heads together when we reached 16 and all acchieved good grades.

Even some of my teatchers say it. They said to me, they would gladly reject teaching a class of Year 9's (13-14 year olds) but would love to teach 16+.

I was attention seeking at that age and was a chav, its a phase, most get out of it by the time you reach the age of 16.


Again I repeat you are in the minority, but it only takes a selfish minority of attention seeking, disruptive kids to ruin the education of others. If such kids want to push a teacher's buttons, they will eventually get a reaction such as this because, believe it or not, teachers are human beings not robots with no feelings.

I'm glad commonsense prevailed in dealing with this man who clearly had a breakdown, something his school must have been aware was on the cards in view of his previous medical history.

[Mrluvaluva]

Glad about this. Was just reading the article regarding him being spared a jail sentence.


"The boy gave evidence during the trial via video-link from a room in the court building.

Rex Tedd QC, defending, put it to him in cross-examination that he regularly disrupted lessons.

Mr Tedd said: 'On nine occasions in the last year you deliberately disrupted the teaching of your class. Can you remember anything about that?'

'No,' replied the boy.

'My suggestion is that youwere a leading light in the trouble that took place in that class.'

'No,' repeated the teenager.

The barrister said: 'You're saying you cannot remember any of the trouble that took place in that classroom?'

'No,' the boy said."


How convenient.

[setanta]

Glad about this. Was just reading the article regarding him being spared a jail sentence.


"The boy gave evidence during the trial via video-link from a room in the court building.

Rex Tedd QC, defending, put it to him in cross-examination that he regularly disrupted lessons.

Mr Tedd said: 'On nine occasions in the last year you deliberately disrupted the teaching of your class. Can you remember anything about that?'

'No,' replied the boy.

'My suggestion is that youwere a leading light in the trouble that took place in that class.'

'No,' repeated the teenager.

The barrister said: 'You're saying you cannot remember any of the trouble that took place in that classroom?'

'No,' the boy said."


How convenient.

Wow, maybe he cause severe braindamage to the kid. Nah, on second thought's he's just a moron.

[Tom4784]

He only got Community Service? What a joke.

I don't care what troubles he had in the past, if he wasn't up to teaching then he shouldn't have been in the classroom. At the end of the day he beat a kid's head in with a weight, If it was any other circumstance he would have gone down and rightfully so. So what the kid was being a b*stard, he's 14 years old for christ sake the teacher should have known better then to rise to it.

So what next? Running over 10 year old's that don't do their homework? Glassing 7 year old's that acidently spill something? It sickens me it truly does.

[*mazedsalv**]

Again I repeat you are in the minority, but it only takes a selfish minority of attention seeking, disruptive kids to ruin the education of others. If such kids want to push a teacher's buttons, they will eventually get a reaction such as this because, believe it or not, teachers are human beings not robots with no feelings.

I'm glad commonsense prevailed in dealing with this man who clearly had a breakdown, something his school must have been aware was on the cards in view of his previous medical history.

True. Obviously the bloke was troubled, but he shouldnt have been back at work that soon. He looked unstabled and even said that he "felt peaceful" after he smashed the pupils skull. Thats really not a very stable thing to stay.

[arista]

He only got Community Service? What a joke.

I don't care what troubles he had in the past, if he wasn't up to teaching then he shouldn't have been in the classroom. At the end of the day he beat a kid's head in with a weight, If it was any other circumstance he would have gone down and rightfully so. So what the kid was being a b*stard, he's 14 years old for christ sake the teacher should have known better then to rise to it.

So what next? Running over 10 year old's that don't do their homework? Glassing 7 year old's that acidently spill something? It sickens me it truly does.



Its no Joke
justice is Done
Dezzy you are Out of Touch

[Mrluvaluva]

He looked unstabled and even said that he "felt peaceful" after he smashed the pupils skull. Thats really not a very stable thing to stay.

Strange I know, but I think it was something to do with his condition. We cannot understand these things without having experienced them. It was obviously something to do with his state of mind.

[*mazedsalv**]

Strange I know, but I think it was something to do with his condition. We cannot understand these things without having experienced them. It was obviously something to do with his state of mind.

Which is why i dont think he should have gone back to work so early.

[Mrluvaluva]

Which is why i dont think he should have gone back to work so early.

I agree on that point. I picked up on this in the article:

"He had been sent home in December 2008 by its education adviser Shahrukh Mugaseth after he admitted having thoughts of harming someone.

But he returned to work in April last year after receiving counselling sessions from a therapist who told him he was too 'peaceful and passive' and needed to be better at letting his anger out.

He could often be heard talking to himself and could be aggressive towards students."


It was obviously too soon, but it must have been deemed ok by the therapist. Are they to blame too? There are obviously many aspects to this. He was also trying to cope with his wifes depression amongst other things. A catalyst some might say.

[Mrluvaluva]

The CPS have released some of the CCTV footage that took place during and after the attack which has been shown on SKY.


QFFZYeC4mo0

[Crimson Dynamo]

I am glad they let Grantly off as Waterloo road would have been crap without him

[Beastie]

I bet the teacher wanted to give his pupil a good spit roast!

[Angus]

The teenage girl who was the ringleader had videoed the whole incident, which was played to the court. It showed how the class had goaded him, in particular this boy who was a well known troublemaker and who seems to have finally got what he deserved. If he's got brain damage as a result, it can only be an improvement.

[cupid stunt]

This, Kids are demonised too much these days it's shocking. Send the *****er down.

that little **** shouldnt have bullied tht teacher 4 months when he knew the poor bloke were mental, well HES BEEN SET FREE NA SO STICK DAT IN YA PIPE N SMOKE IT

[Tom4784]

that little **** shouldnt have bullied tht teacher 4 months when he knew the poor bloke were mental, well HES BEEN SET FREE NA SO STICK DAT IN YA PIPE N SMOKE IT

Still, if this man couldn't handle it then he shouldn't have been in the classroom. Kids are cruel, doesn't give people the rights to smash their heads in though.

[Angus]

Still, if this man couldn't handle it then he shouldn't have been in the classroom. Kids are cruel, doesn't give people the rights to smash their heads in though.

Like I said earlier, the school is to blame - probably compelled the poor man to return to work because he'd been deemed fit to do so by his therapist apparently! If he hadn't gone back, he would probably have got a disciplinary or lost wages. He was probably unaware himself that he was not fit - that's a determination that should have been made by his therapist, doctor and school.

The kids were screwed because of the video that showed what actually happened from beginning to end, so they couldn't lie their way out of it by saying "we didn't do nuffin". That's why he was acquitted, the jury saw for themselves what he had to endure before he finally snapped.
Remember it wasn't just this one occasion, these kids had been baiting him for months. Perhaps they'll think twice before they try it with anyone else.

[Tom4784]

Like I said earlier, the school is to blame - probably compelled the poor man to return to work because he'd been deemed fit to do so by his therapist apparently! If he hadn't gone back, he would probably have got a disciplinary or lost wages. He was probably unaware himself that he was not fit - that's a determination that should have been made by his therapist, doctor and school.

The kids were screwed because of the video that showed what actually happened from beginning to end, so they couldn't lie their way out of it by saying "we didn't do nuffin". That's why he was acquitted, the jury saw for themselves what he had to endure before he finally snapped.
Remember it wasn't just this one occasion, these kids had been baiting him for months. Perhaps they'll think twice before they try it with anyone else.

True about the school but if I'm honest I can't drum up much sympathy for someone who would do that to a kid. He should have been sent down for it really. He obviously committed GBH with intent so he should have gone down for perhaps a smaller amount of time then usual given the cirumstances.

He did crack so they should have had him do the sentance in a mental health facility so that he doesn't brain anyone else in future.

[Angus]

True about the school but if I'm honest I can't drum up much sympathy for someone who would do that to a kid. He should have been sent down for it really. He obviously committed GBH with intent so he should have gone down for perhaps a smaller amount of time then usual given the cirumstances.

He did crack so they should have had him do the sentance in a mental health facility so that he doesn't brain anyone else in future.

I'm fed up with the argument that they were just kids. Yeah, kids who knew exactly what they were doing and which buttons to push, the cruel b*stards. They wanted a reaction, but unfortunately for them they got more than they bargained for. He was acquitted because it was done in the heat of the moment (not premeditated) when he was under intense emotional and psychological pressure so the jury made the correct decision. He probably entered a plea of temporary insanity, and you cannot indict somebody who is insane.

[Tom4784]

I'm fed up with the argument that they were just kids. Yeah, kids who knew exactly what they were doing and which buttons to push, the cruel b*stards. They wanted a reaction, but unfortunately for them they got more than they bargained for. He was acquitted because it was done in the heat of the moment (not premeditated) when he was under intense emotional and psychological pressure so the jury made the correct decision. He probably entered a plea of temporary insanity, and you cannot indict somebody who is insane.

Regardless of what the kids were doing it doesn't justify beating their brains in with a weight and if it does then I fear for this country I really do. I could just BARELY understand if the teacher's life was in danger then it would be self defense but it wasn't. He was guilty of the crime in question (you don't accidently start screaming out 'die' while kicking the crap out of someone). The fact that he was provoked should not have been the difference between a conviction and an acquittal, it should have only affected how long he went down for. He could have served the time in a facility getting help if it was a case of temporary insanity. I'm not sure if you could get sectioned on an insanity plea but it's what should have happened here.

I do hope he gets sorted out though, because if he can be pushed that far once then it can easily happen again

[Angus]

Regardless of what the kids were doing it doesn't justify beating their brains in with a weight and if it does then I fear for this country I really do. I could just BARELY understand if the teacher's life was in danger then it would be self defense but it wasn't. He was guilty of the crime in question (you don't accidently start screaming out 'die' while kicking the crap out of someone). The fact that he was provoked should not have been the difference between a conviction and an acquittal, it should have only affected how long he went down for. He could have served the time in a facility getting help if it was a case of temporary insanity. I'm not sure if you could get sectioned on an insanity plea but it's what should have happened here.

I do hope he gets sorted out though, because if he can be pushed that far once then it can easily happen again


Well I can't see him returning to teaching any time soon, nor I doubt would he want to. What would be a terrible and unjust society is one where we judged the insane or mentally ill by the same standards as those in full possession of their faculties. The consensus on this forum seems to be that the jury made the right decision having taken into account his prolonged torture by these kids, his previous mental history, and the actual baiting and taunting he was subjected to on the day in question which tipped him momentarily over the edge.

What I would like to know is what punishments were handed out to the girl who was the ring leader doing the video (which the nasty b*tch intended to distribute around the school and on the internet) and the other sadistic brats who thought it fun to taunt and torment someone they saw as a soft target?

[Tom4784]

Well I can't see him returning to teaching any time soon, nor I doubt would he want to. What would be a terrible and unjust society is one where we judged the insane or mentally ill by the same standards as those in full possession of their faculties. The consensus on this forum seems to be that the jury made the right decision having taken into account his prolonged torture by these kids, his previous mental history, and the actual baiting and taunting he was subjected to on the day in question which tipped him momentarily over the edge.

What I would like to know is what punishments were handed out to the girl who was the ring leader doing the video (which the nasty b*tch intended to distribute around the school and on the internet) and the other sadistic brats who thought it fun to taunt and torment someone they saw as a soft target?

Just because he won't return to teaching doesn't mean he won't crack again and hurt someone. At least if he got sectioned he would have definitely recieved help as he might not get it under his own steam. I'm not saying throw the man in prison just that he should have been convicted and served his time in a place where he could get help for his issues. The man was a victim but the second he lifted that weight was the second he was a victim no longer. If we replaced the teacher with another student you could bet your bottom dollar he'd have been sent down for it.

I do think there should be an investigation into how it got this far though, a few senior heads at that school should roll for it since it's obvious that man wasn't in a fit state to be in a classroom.

The difference between the kids and the teacher is that they didn't break any laws. They'l be punished by the school and rightfully so for the damage they caused the teacher but it still doesn't excuse the man for what he did.

[Angus]

Just because he won't return to teaching doesn't mean he won't crack again and hurt someone. At least if he got sectioned he would have definitely recieved help as he might not get it under his own steam. I'm not saying throw the man in prison just that he should have been convicted and served his time in a place where he could get help for his issues. The man was a victim but the second he lifted that weight was the second he was a victim no longer. If we replaced the teacher with another student you could bet your bottom dollar he'd have been sent down for it.

I do think there should be an investigation into how it got this far though, a few senior heads at that school should roll for it since it's obvious that man wasn't in a fit state to be in a classroom.

The difference between the kids and the teacher is that they didn't break any laws. They'l be punished by the school and rightfully so for the damage they caused the teacher but it still doesn't excuse the man for what he did.


You say the kids were not doing anything unlawful but their deliberate actions were the catalyst to this whole incident, they are not blameless. Every action has a reaction, and sometimes that reaction can be totally unexpected as happened in this case. Ask yourself what reaction were they trying to get from this poor man? They clearly set out to humiliate him and emotionally abuse him. They were effectively bullying him and its about time that bullying in school IS made unlawful so that the perpetrators are held accountable. How many times have we heard how kids who have been unrelentingly bullied at school commit suicide? Are the bullies blameless? Tragic things can happen when you push someone over the edge.

[Tom4784]

You say the kids were not doing anything unlawful but their deliberate actions were the catalyst to this whole incident, they are not blameless. Every action has a reaction, and sometimes that reaction can be totally unexpected as happened in this case. Ask yourself what reaction were they trying to get from this poor man? They clearly set out to humiliate him and emotionally abuse him. They were effectively bullying him and its about time that bullying in school IS made unlawful so that the perpetrators are held accountable. How many times have we heard how kids who have been unrelentingly bullied at school commit suicide? Are the bullies blameless? Tragic things can happen when you push someone over the edge.

I do agree that bullying at that level should be an offense but at this time it isn't so it's down to the school and the parents to punish them accordingly and there's nothing more we can really say apart from that.

[Shasown]

Its good to see that people have a grip on reality.

He wasnt in a state of mind to be classed as legally responsible for his actions, at the time of the attack.

However he had served 8 months on remand for the attack, this probably given his lack of criminal record and his remorse for the attack is more than he would have received as a sentence anyway.

Sectioning is different from punishing under criminal law. He was deemed prior to the attack to have been fit to return to work, since the attack he has been receiving treatment on a voluntary basis. What good would sectioning, which is detaining someone under the Mental Health Act 1983 achieve?

[MrGaryy]

I'm really happy to hear he didnt get sent down for this, I think it would have been unjust. Yes the man overreacred majorly, yes it';s unjustifiable and yes he shouldn't have been in that classroom at all if he wasnt fit enough to handle it but that doesn't erase the fact that those kids pushed it WAY over the limit, they deliberately provoked him and did it not out of hormones or puberty but out of sheer badness.

there was a teacher in my school who actually had a mental breakdown because the students bullied her so badly and continue to do so. I recall one time someone stole her keys with keys to her car and house and let her spend a whole class looking for them only to go outside afterwards and throw them in a river. Just plain nasty and disrespectful.

But I also think it's unfair to generalise like the media have and realise that the vast majority of kids do actually understand the difference between right and wrong and though they may not act on their feelings, a lot of kids you'll find will disapprove of the serious troublemakers.