why is the term half-caste offensive?

[Stephanie]

:conf:

[GypsyGoth]

I don't know, I think people are just extra careful about race, like they don't want to seem like a bigot or racist.

[ElProximo]

It is yet another term that is not actually offensive but some PC types made 'deemed' it offensive because they (in their minds) receive power and more authority the more 'offense' they can find.

In reality, you could have found the 10,000 times this term was used and none of them in any derogatory, marginalizing, negative or insulting way AT ALL.

I'm not saying its an awesome term and everyone loves it but it is not now and never was offensive in itself or in common use.

Basic answer - the hysterical PC correctness gone wild in the UK

[Braden]

It's not stating what they actully are, which is ethnic. It's like calling a black person coloured,it's rude and the wrong term.

[ElProximo]

It's not stating what they actully are, which is ethnic. It's like calling a black person coloured,it's rude and the wrong term.

How rude of you to call someone half-caste 'ethnic'. It is not only wrong (ethnicity is a culture not a physical trait),
and,
it is also very discriminatory.

[Stu]

It's not stating what they actully are, which is ethnic. It's like calling a black person coloured,it's rude and the wrong term.
Ethnicity is your cultural heritage, not physical features.

Not only do I believe there is nothing wrong with the term half cast, but there is nothing wrong with the term 'blacks' either. It's a very, very casual term for ... well ... blacks and it's only offensive if you are stupid and sheltered enough to take it that way.

******* I can understand, but blacks? Half cast? That's riddiculous.

[30stone]

I never thought there was..

I used it once on here when i first joined and got barricaded...

I didnt even know ..

[Braden]

Ethnicity is your cultural heritage, not physical features.

Not only do I believe there is nothing wrong with the term half cast, but there is nothing wrong with the term 'blacks' either. It's a very, very casual term for ... well ... blacks and it's only offensive if you are stupid and sheltered enough to take it that way.

******* I can understand, but blacks? Half cast? That's riddiculous.

I never said blacks was offensive, I said using the word coloured towards black people was.

And I apologize for my mistake in the post.

[Princess]

I don't find half cast offensive. But I suppose it's all depends how you use it,no-one uses it to be offensive,it's only needed if you're described how someone looks.

[arista]

:conf:


It takes you back to the days
of

"Shirt Lifter"

Thats the same kind if Word not permitted now days,


On a Food TV show
a Old Comedian dared to use that wording and was removed.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

you guys would have a heart attack watching family guy :joker:

[Jessica.]

I didn't know it was offensive at all. :conf2:

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

It takes you back to the days
of

"Shirt Lifter"

Thats the same kind if Word not permitted now days,


On a Food TV show
a Old Comedian dared to use that wording and was removed.

what dies shirt lifter even mean? i know it means gay but i just dont get what it actually means :conf:

[ElProximo]

what dies shirt lifter even mean? i know it means gay but i just dont get what it actually means :conf:

I'm not entirely sure but I think it shirt-lifter means something like turd-burglar. Or maybe just what happens before the burglary?

[arista]

what dies shirt lifter even mean? i know it means gay but i just dont get what it actually means :conf:

"In September 2007, on celebrity reality TV programme Hell's Kitchen, Brian Dowling mentioned comments made by Jim Davidson about his homosexuality. Davidson asked Dowling, "Are you on our side?" when referring to whether or not he would be participating for the boys or girls team, mentioned the word "shirtlifter" in front of him, and repeatedly asked if he'd like to try on one of John Virgo's lovely waistcoats, of which - despite his financial straits - he is still in possession. Davidson later described himself unironically as a "homophobic arsehole". The programme was aired on ITV on September 4, 2007.[26] On September 10, 2007 Davidson was asked to leave Hell's Kitchen following further problems with Dowling."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Davidson_%28comedian%29

[arista]

I'm not entirely sure but I think it shirt-lifter means something like turd-burglar. Or maybe just what happens before the burglary?

Well Wrong.

[InOne]

John Agard - Half Caste
Excuse me
standing on one leg
I’m half-caste.

Explain yuself
wha yu mean
when yu say half-caste
yu mean when Picasso
mix red an green
is a half-caste canvas?
explain yuself
wha yu mean
when yu say half-caste
yu mean when light an shadow
mix in de sky
is a half-caste weather?
well in dat case
england weather
nearly always half-caste
in fact some o dem cloud
half-caste till dem overcast
so spiteful dem don’t want de sun pass
ah rass?
explain yuself
wha yu mean
when yu say half-caste
yu mean tchaikovsky
sit down at dah piano
an mix a black key
wid a white key
is a half-caste symphony?

Explain yuself
wha yu mean
Ah listening to yu wid de keen
half of mih ear
Ah looking at yu wid de keen
half of mih eye
an when I’m introduced to yu
I’m sure you’ll understand
why I offer yu half-a-hand
an when I sleep at night
I close half-a-eye
consequently when I dream
I dream half-a-dream
an when moon begin to glow
I half-caste human being
cast half-a-shadow
but yu must come back tomorrow
wid de whole of yu eye
an de whole of yu ear
an de whole of yu mind.

an I will tell yu
de other half
of my story.

[Niamh.]

why Caste anyway? I would say mixed race I think not that I'd have to use it much in day to day life anyway

[Stephanie]

John Agard - Half Caste
Excuse me
standing on one leg
I’m half-caste.

Explain yuself
wha yu mean
when yu say half-caste
yu mean when Picasso
mix red an green
is a half-caste canvas?
explain yuself
wha yu mean
when yu say half-caste
yu mean when light an shadow
mix in de sky
is a half-caste weather?
well in dat case
england weather
nearly always half-caste
in fact some o dem cloud
half-caste till dem overcast
so spiteful dem don’t want de sun pass
ah rass?
explain yuself
wha yu mean
when yu say half-caste
yu mean tchaikovsky
sit down at dah piano
an mix a black key
wid a white key
is a half-caste symphony?

Explain yuself
wha yu mean
Ah listening to yu wid de keen
half of mih ear
Ah looking at yu wid de keen
half of mih eye
an when I’m introduced to yu
I’m sure you’ll understand
why I offer yu half-a-hand
an when I sleep at night
I close half-a-eye
consequently when I dream
I dream half-a-dream
an when moon begin to glow
I half-caste human being
cast half-a-shadow
but yu must come back tomorrow
wid de whole of yu eye
an de whole of yu ear
an de whole of yu mind.

an I will tell yu
de other half
of my story.
we were looking at this today in english haha.

[InOne]

we were looking at this today in english haha.

Yeah I remembered from doing it in English lol All those poems were epic

[arista]

I didn't know it was offensive at all. :conf2:



Thats Due to the place you Live.

[Stacey.]

i didn't know it was offensive. :confused:

[setanta]

It's very simple for me: I've never liked the term so would never use it.

[Vicky.]

Because everything is deemed offensive these days.

[Jessica.]

Thats Due to the place you Live.

How?

[setanta]

And I can't come away from what the intent was behind the name: In my eyes half will always mean less than full, not whole. To me, it's a derogatory term just in it's meaning alone so yeah, I have no use for it.

[Tom4784]

John Agard - Half Caste
Excuse me
standing on one leg
I’m half-caste.

Explain yuself
wha yu mean
when yu say half-caste
yu mean when Picasso
mix red an green
is a half-caste canvas?
explain yuself
wha yu mean
when yu say half-caste
yu mean when light an shadow
mix in de sky
is a half-caste weather?
well in dat case
england weather
nearly always half-caste
in fact some o dem cloud
half-caste till dem overcast
so spiteful dem don’t want de sun pass
ah rass?
explain yuself
wha yu mean
when yu say half-caste
yu mean tchaikovsky
sit down at dah piano
an mix a black key
wid a white key
is a half-caste symphony?

Explain yuself
wha yu mean
Ah listening to yu wid de keen
half of mih ear
Ah looking at yu wid de keen
half of mih eye
an when I’m introduced to yu
I’m sure you’ll understand
why I offer yu half-a-hand
an when I sleep at night
I close half-a-eye
consequently when I dream
I dream half-a-dream
an when moon begin to glow
I half-caste human being
cast half-a-shadow
but yu must come back tomorrow
wid de whole of yu eye
an de whole of yu ear
an de whole of yu mind.

an I will tell yu
de other half
of my story.

I remember this from the Anthologies in secondary school, I didn't know it was an offensive term until then myself.

[arista]

How?

Education is better in London.

[Jessica.]

Education is better in London.

It is not.

[arista]

It is not.


Of Course it is
and you find out how to behave on the streets.

[Jessica.]

Of Course it is
and you find out how to behave on the streets.

I know how to behave on the streets Arista. I've heard the education system in London and the UK is a mess, children don't learn to read until they are about 9.

[arista]

I know how to behave on the streets Arista. I've heard the education system in London and the UK is a mess, children don't learn to read until they are about 9.



No it was a Utter Mess under New Dead Labour.


Its all change now.


Sorry to tell you this but Children learn younger than 9 to Read.


We are not Eire and we ain't part of the Bankrupt €uro.

If you want to Get on Fly to America,
London or Germany.


Sign Of The Times.

[Jessica.]

No it was a Utter Mess uner New Dead Labour.


Its all change now.


Sorry to tell you this but Children learn younger than 9 to Read.


We are not Eire and we ain't part of the Bankrupt €uro.

If you want to Get on Fly to America,
London or Germany.


Sign Of The Times.

The only problem with our education system is the Irish language is thought as a first language even though the majority of people don't speak it at home. If it were thought as a second language then a lot more people would be able to speak it. Other than that we have a very good education system.

[arista]

The only problem with our education system is the Irish language is thought as a first language even though the majority of people don't speak it at home. If it were thought as a second language then a lot more people would be able to speak it. Other than that we have a very good education system.


I glad you can see what I am getting at.

[Niamh.]

Education is better in London.

Excuse me! Our education system is very good here Arista, how the hell would you know what it was like???

[Jessica.]

I glad you can see what I am getting at.

I prefer Euro to having some old woman on my money though. :)

[Jessica.]

Excuse me! Our education system is very good here Arista, how the hell would you know what it was like???

Exactly :)

[arista]

Excuse me! Our education system is very good here Arista, how the hell would you know what it was like???


I have Been there

[arista]

I prefer Euro to having some old woman on my money though. :)

Every Euro Money Nation
now Funds Ultra Bankrupt Greece.


The €uro is not Safe anymore.


Maybe you should use the Dollar.

[Smithy]

John Agard - Half Caste
Excuse me
standing on one leg
I’m half-caste.

Explain yuself
wha yu mean
when yu say half-caste
yu mean when Picasso
mix red an green
is a half-caste canvas?
explain yuself
wha yu mean
when yu say half-caste
yu mean when light an shadow
mix in de sky
is a half-caste weather?
well in dat case
england weather
nearly always half-caste
in fact some o dem cloud
half-caste till dem overcast
so spiteful dem don’t want de sun pass
ah rass?
explain yuself
wha yu mean
when yu say half-caste
yu mean tchaikovsky
sit down at dah piano
an mix a black key
wid a white key
is a half-caste symphony?

Explain yuself
wha yu mean
Ah listening to yu wid de keen
half of mih ear
Ah looking at yu wid de keen
half of mih eye
an when I’m introduced to yu
I’m sure you’ll understand
why I offer yu half-a-hand
an when I sleep at night
I close half-a-eye
consequently when I dream
I dream half-a-dream
an when moon begin to glow
I half-caste human being
cast half-a-shadow
but yu must come back tomorrow
wid de whole of yu eye
an de whole of yu ear
an de whole of yu mind.

an I will tell yu
de other half
of my story.


We did that last year in our Anthology's XD

[Jessica.]

Every Euro Money Nation
now Funds Ultra Bankrupt Greece.


The €uro is not Safe anymore.


Maybe you should use the Dollar.

I like Euro, I don't care what it funds.

[arista]

I like Euro, I don't care what it funds.

Sure looks good in Choco.

But as a Concept the €uro is now stuck in the bog.

[Tom4784]

Don't engage Arista people, he's a windup merchant.

[arista]

Don't engage Arista people, he's a windup merchant.

No I am not

And They Know me Full well.
Dezzy.

[Shasown]

In answer to the OP the caste system is the Hindu system of social status, the term half caste was originally applied to those of mixed European and Asian parentage, it was later extended to mean those of mixed cloured parentage.

It could be deemed offensive as when applied to people years ago it intimated that the person so described would not be accepted by either social caste. Technically an outcast. It could also be taken as being offensive to some in that its stating there is a difference in class between Asians Coloureds and Whites.

In some countries half castes are still treated as some form of outcasts.

I suppose really it depends on the context in which it is applied as opposed to a general context nowadays.

I hope thats helped with your homework Steph?

[Stacey.]

what is anthology?
we're doing it at school, but i'm too scared to ask what it means as we've been doing it for ages, and i forgot to ask before. the teacher has a go at me all the time D:

[Shasown]

what is anthology?
we're doing it at school, but i'm too scared to ask what it means as we've been doing it for ages, and i forgot to ask before. the teacher has a go at me all the time D:

Have you checked to see you havent been following someone in a higher years timetable for the last few months?

[ange7]

It is yet another term that is not actually offensive but some PC types made 'deemed' it offensive because they (in their minds) receive power and more authority the more 'offense' they can find.

In reality, you could have found the 10,000 times this term was used and none of them in any derogatory, marginalizing, negative or insulting way AT ALL.

I'm not saying its an awesome term and everyone loves it but it is not now and never was offensive in itself or in common use.

Basic answer - the hysterical PC correctness gone wild in the UK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGAOCVwLrXo

[ange7]

No I am not

And They Know me Full well.
Dezzy.
yeah you are lol

[GypsyGoth]

what is anthology?


It is just a group of poems or stories put in the same book and they could be from loads of different writers.

[arista]

yeah you are lol


So Are You
you Utter Down Under trouble puddle

[ElProximo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGAOCVwLrXo

Funny guy. Weirdly he think 'PC correctness' includes law enforcement, actual crimes and human rights.
I mean.. there are still people being killed so obviously we aren't PC enough right?
He is clever but I did get the bigger laugh at him 'outsmarting' his own self. The kids call it 'self-pwnage' but its really funnier that he is not even aware of it.

[ange7]

Funny guy. Weirdly he think 'PC correctness' includes law enforcement, actual crimes and human rights.
I mean.. there are still people being killed so obviously we aren't PC enough right?
He is clever but I did get the bigger laugh at him 'outsmarting' his own self. The kids call it 'self-pwnage' but its really funnier that he is not even aware of it.

ElProximo:"I mean.. there are still people being killed so obviously we aren't PC enough right?"
wrong .... that's you creating a straw man to argue against, problem you have is he didn't say that but you won't let that stop you lol.
Now go and create a couple fake accounts to use to agree with yourself like you did last year. :P
Did you really do that ElProximo? Create 2 accounts and then log on in all three of them and have a convo where your 2 fake account agreed with your racist rants?. That's taking the need for affirmation to a new extreme buddy. But hey you don't need to do that anymore since arista is around.

[ange7]

So Are You
you Utter Down Under trouble puddle
so you agree your a troll. nice

[arista]

ElProximo:"I mean.. there are still people being killed so obviously we aren't PC enough right?"
wrong .... that's you creating a straw man to argue against, problem you have is he didn't say that but you won't let that stop you lol.
Now go and create a couple fake accounts to use to agree with yourself like you did last year. :P
Did you really do that ElProximo? Create 2 accounts and then log on in all three of them and have a convo where your 2 fake account agreed with your racist rants?. That's taking the need for affirmation to a new extreme buddy. But hey you don't need to do that anymore since arista is around.


Ange you are Out Of Order
I stand Alone on this Forum.

[ange7]

I take it back Arista.
Your idea to micro-chipping immigrants, or failing that have numbers tattooed on their arms, should have had more support....the fact that people likened it to the nazi treatment of jews was just another case of "political correctness gone mad!!"
mahahahaa

[arista]

I take it back Arista.
Your idea to microchip immigrants or failing that have numbers tattooed on their arms should have had more support....the fact that people likened it to the nazi treatment of jews was just another case of "political correctness gone mad!!"
mahahahaa


No My Ideas are still possible.

The Microchip is getting even better in its Data
it can track even more.


I have Never said tattoo anyone
this is Typical of you to Falsehood Statements.


Down Under
a Nation built from the British Empire
some of me is in you.

[ange7]

No My Ideas are still possible.

The Microchip is getting even better in its Data
it can track even more.


I have Never said tattoo anyone
this is Typical of you to Falsehood Statements.


Down Under
a Nation built from the British Empire
some of me is in you.
No I have regular bowl movements. That part of you "in me" gets flushed away twice a day :P

[ElProximo]

ElProximo:"I mean.. there are still people being killed so obviously we aren't PC enough right?"
wrong .... that's you creating a straw man to argue against, problem you have is he didn't say that but you won't let that stop you lol.

Yes, he did say that. If not 'word for word' that is the implication and if you can't understand why he got this wrong then there may be no helping you sort it out.


Now go and create a couple fake accounts to use to agree with yourself like you did last year. :P
Did you really do that ElProximo? Create 2 accounts and then log on in all three of them and have a convo where your 2 fake account agreed with your racist rants?. That's taking the need for affirmation to a new extreme buddy. But hey you don't need to do that anymore since arista is around.



No surprise here but again you don't seem to be good at recognizing what is happening around you.
At no time. Never. With no exceptions. Never have I had any more than one screen-name and account here.
Now that you remind me of this - weren't you the one last season who got scolded by mods FOR this annoying accusation?

The only thing I can come up with is that you are so obsessively entrenched into some ultra-leftist PC correct socially-liberal mentality and microcosm that you simple CANNOT COMPREHEND how there could be THREE people on Earth who actually believe 'conservative type things'!?
Thats impossible!
Three posters may exist on TiBB that SOMETIMES agree with things that sound like 'right-winger' values!?!?
It can ONLY be a single person playing a 'character' with multiple accounts right?

* insult removed * - ukturtle

[Benjamin]

Guys can you please keep this conversation friendly and stick to the subject!

[ange7]

Guys can you please keep this conversation friendly and stick to the subject!
he called me a moron :P ... that's why I reported him. That's rwwwude! hehe
Plus he got banned last year for having 2 extra account .....WHO HE HAD 3 WAY CONVERSATIONS WITH :P

ok back on topic
pc haters try to make themselves out to be the victims. "ooooo it's pc gone mad!!!". Would it kill them to just say "mixed race" instead of "half **st"? But oh no poor things... being 'forced' to be a little more accommodating makes them flip out.

[Benjamin]

he called me a moron :P ... that's why I reported him. That's rwwwude! hehe
Plus he got banned last year for having 2 extra account .....WHO HE HAD 3 WAY CONVERSATIONS WITH :P

ok back on topic
pc haters try to make themselves out to be the victims. "ooooo it's pc gone mad!!!". Would it kill them to just say "mixed race" instead of "half **st"? But oh no poor things... being 'forced' to be a little more accommodating makes them flip out.

Well the discussion of him having extra accounts has nothing to with this topic or anything to do with right now (it was last year).

And i am monitoring the convo so if he insults again, then I or one of the other moderators will deal with it.


:spin:

[Stacey.]

It is just a group of poems or stories put in the same book and they could be from loads of different writers.

oh right, thanks :blush:

[ange7]

lol turtle..I don't like this new 2 strikes policy....that you just made up 3 mins ago.

[ElProximo]

Well the discussion of him having extra accounts has nothing to with this topic or anything to do with right now (it was last year).


There is no discussion about it. Not this year and not last year. I am not suspected of this and never was.

Besides, why would I ever want to share out the credit. I rule, my posts rule, I'm awesome and want full credit.

'Half-caste' is not used in any derogatory way. I used the term once to refer to my impending child.
The problem with 'mixed-race' is that it suggest there are different races of humans and that is something I disagree with,
but,
if someone refers to my kids as 'mixed-race' I have the responsibility to accept the communication as THEY INTENDED IT. I don't get to decide they meant offense. They decide that.
I realize they did not mean any derogatory or negative thing but rather were choosing the best words they knew and meant well.

This is the very problem with PC word-policing - it supposes there is no obligations for the receiver. There is.

I don't get to declare 'mixed-race' as offensive when it isn't. The sender decides that. If the sender does decided to pour an offensive meaning into that term then I will receive it accordingly.

I have no doubt this went right over the heads of certain people. woooosh.

[teamandre]

well my real dad is a half cast i dont know what that makes me but hay but i dont find it offensive as you are not one or teh other you are both so no its not offensive .

[Niamh.]

I have Been there

You've been to school in Ireland?

[ange7]

There is no discussion about it. Not this year and not last year. I am not suspected of this and never was.

Besides, why would I ever want to share out the credit. I rule, my posts rule, I'm awesome and want full credit.

'Half-caste' is not used in any derogatory way. I used the term once to refer to my impending child.
The problem with 'mixed-race' is that it suggest there are different races of humans and that is something I disagree with,
but,
if someone refers to my kids as 'mixed-race' I have the responsibility to accept the communication as THEY INTENDED IT. I don't get to decide they meant offense. They decide that.
I realize they did not mean any derogatory or negative thing but rather were choosing the best words they knew and meant well.

This is the very problem with PC word-policing - it supposes there is no obligations for the receiver. There is.

I don't get to declare 'mixed-race' as offensive when it isn't. The sender decides that. If the sender does decided to pour an offensive meaning into that term then I will receive it accordingly.

I have no doubt this went right over the heads of certain people. woooosh.
"went right over their heads", "wooosh" ... that's all very cute but trying to belittle those that disagree with is playground stuff.
So according to you the way a person "receives" the possibly racist slur has more bearing than the it's historic context. Rubbish mate. That seem dumb to me because ignorance of a racially loaded word shouldn't excuse it. I'd hope you'd agree that if someone walked into a daycare center and shouted 'ni**ers! ni**ers!" at all the black kids that would still be a racist act DESPITE the receivers not necessarily understanding it. Your current definition ( and it is only yours thank god) would mean that a situation like that would be fine because no harm done...the receivers" didn't get it. That's a load of old ballz and possible the stupidest thing of heard from you. lol "wooosh" indeed.

The idea that the term "mixed-race" is more offensive than "half-caste" is funny. What your not understanding is how these terms were used in history and their context. "Half-caste" historically has been used to ostracize and demean the children from mixed parents and refers to them being 'lesser' or 'inferior' ... same way the term 'ni**er' was used to oppress and demean. The term 'mixed-race' has never had that history of usage. The fact that you personally are offended by it doesn't mean sh*t... it ain't all about you hehe

If you don't think it's offensive and don't know it's history..in real world situations people won't pick you up on 'half'cast' like they would with the word 'ni**er' because any idiot would have known how THAT would was used in history.

You problem is you don't want to appear racist but your too lazy or disinterested to find out which words are rubbish. You resent that 'people' need to tell you what's ok and isn't. So you throw up your hands a scream "it's political correctness gone mad!!' In fact if you had a wider circle of friends then you'd work out what is and isn't racist on your own. Better option is to make an effort to know what words are offensive and then simply use an alternative. You make out as if this is the hardest thing in the world and that somehow YOU are the victim because your 'forced' to modify a few stupid words. "oh it's political correctness gone mad!.. I can't even talk a pile of **** anymore with out someone having to fu**ing explain to me why I'm out of order". Get back under your rock then :P

[arista]

You've been to school in Ireland?



I visted Ireland with a Group of Yanks
and Asia Investers.


We had a Great time with the locals
who treated us well.



Sadly nowdays
they go toVeitnam
as the €uro funding is no lomger safe.
Greece has well Shafted the lot of you.

[ElProximo]

.... that's all very cute but trying to.....ay a person "receives" the possibly racist slur has more bearing than the it's historic context. Rub...........'t excuse it. .........ed into a daycare cente.......... act DESPITE the receivers......understanding it. .....ation lik......... be fine because no harm done...the receivers" didn't ......... load of old ballz and possible the stupidest ..........

Wow, someone blowing a gasket...

"Half-caste" historically has been used to ostracize and demean the children from mixed parents and refers to them being 'lesser' or 'inferior' ...

I doubt that but it doesn't matter what the historical usage was. It matter what the common usage is and in what meaning the sender intends to put into the word envelope.

We could build a long list of examples but for starters you could take the word 'Moron'.
Moron had once been used as a sort of clinical term. It was not a derogatory or 'insult' term anymore than today we might use the word 'down's syndrome'.
The doctor may have determined the patient is classified as Moron and the parents tell their friends the bad news. The child is a Moron. Friends console them.
Now what happens when I call you a Moron?
You DID NOT take it in its historical context and suppose I was making a clinical analysis.
You probably did not even know it used to be a serious clinical term used to help treat patients.
Instead you accepted it the way the sender (me) most likely intended to the meaning to be received.

If the Mod hopped in saying "I expect you to be Gentlemen about this" there is no way you suppose he is identifying us as land-owners from centuries ago.

Nobody in our times uses the term 'half-caste' in a derogatory way and probably send it 'believing' it is actually a 'politically correct' and 'sensitive' term for the receiver.

Now watch you change your mind and claim it doesn't matter what the receiver 'chooses' to pour into the word but that they must accept what was intended to be delivered...


The term 'mixed-race' has never had that history of usage. The fact that you personally are offended by it doesn't mean sh*t... it ain't all about you hehe

See that?
You insist that the intended meaning trumps whatever the receiver wants or wishes for.
In fact, the term 'mixed-race' does imply there are different races based on physical traits. The Evolutionist idea that there were different kinds of humans by appearance.
HOWEVER,
The reason I don't take offense is because I take the responsibility to discern what the 'sender' intends to convey.
In fact almost no-one is aware of the historical concept that formed that term so they are innocent of imparting that meaning.
I figure that out.
In a similar way - if the sender tells me they believe in 'races' (mongoloid, negroid, caucazoid) and thinks they ought be separated and is later heard taunting me with 'mixxxxed race mixxxxed race',
then
I interpret their use of 'mixed-race' as intending to communicate insulting and derogatory meaning.

with the word 'ni**er' because any idiot would have known how THAT would was used in history.


Here again you are wrong. In the earliest known uses the term '******' is NOT used as a derogatory insult word. In many early uses it is the same as saying (whether accurate or not) 'Nigerians' and then even the same as today 'blacks'.
However,
It was also true that 'blacks' was deemed 'offensive' by self-appointed King Jesse Jackson and the PC crowd.
and,
Now it is not and the PC replacement word 'African Americans' is now considered more silly and outdated as 'coloured'.
but,
More to directly proving my point - a black american may very well call himself or another a ****** (see comic Patrice Oneill) where it is NOT an insult.
Why not?
after all YOU say it is?
The reason is because (in this case) the receiver correctly discerns that the sender does not pour a derogatory meaning into the word. So he receives it accordingly.

More hysterical fits...

You problem is you don't want to appear racist but ........ou resent that 'people' need t... isn't. ........throw up your hands a scream "it's political correctness ...... friends then you'd work out what is and isn't racist ..........words are offensive an........an alternative.......... YOU are the victim ........'forced'...... modify ....stupid words........ gone mad!.. I can't even talk a pile of **** anymore ..... fu**ing explain to me why I'm out of order". Get ........under your rock then :P


I don't accept the Evolutionist concept of 'Races' the way you probably do. I think everyone came from a tiny family of people who had a big fat gene pool.
I think there are branches of the human family (not just the three big main ones) and we can suppose in general terms some are doing better than others.
This won't be because of their physical traits.
I totally reject your bogus 'all or none' demands which is senseless.
There is nothing stopping me from calling the Dutch race the biggest bunch of a-holes on the planet while at the same time thanking God for that tiny perverted technologically advanced island of Japan.

The main thing is that you self-pwned yourself and didn't learn a lesson here. I think we can agree on that.

[bananarama]

What's wrong is that people have to tread on egg shells when speaking or writing........PC is about pandering to a bunch of babies who throw their toys out of the pram if a specific wordings of their choice is not used......

Be your self and use words respectfully appropriate. As long as no offence is intended then ignore the babies who can't recognise the difference and want to stifle free expression.......

[Angus]

Any word or combination of words can be "offensive" depending on the intent behind it - but why on earth people are determined to be "offended" by anything total strangers call them is ridiculous. I really couldn't give a toss what such people think of me or call me - their judgments of me are meaningless. It is the politically correct brigade who have given certain words and phrases the power to "offend" by seeking to ban or censure them.

[DigitalSid]

It has NOTHING to do with being PC Banana.

Caste = latin word for pure therefore half caste = half pure

It comes from the Indian class system.

When you call someone half caste you are calling them half pure and lower class.

That^'s why it's offensive.

[ElProximo]

Caste = latin word for pure therefore half caste = half pure
It comes from the Indian class system.
When you call someone half caste you are calling them half pure and lower class.
That^'s why it's offensive.

Wrong.
See the lesson I gave you in another thread about how words work and evolve and meanings change as the users decide them.

In fact, almost everyone who uses that term today believes they are using the word 'cast'.
As in casting in a mold. As in the substance being poured into, put into (cast) the mold.
They do not even suppose it is from an Indian 'caste' system and even if they did they don't believe it is 'caste' as a latin for 'pure'.
and,
EVEN IF they supposed 'caste' referred to 'pure' they still do not intend this to mean 'less than half pure',
but,
are saying it in the sense of "My mother was pure German and my Father was pure English".
They mean that 'either half' was 'pure ___' and not that one is 'half pure and half impure'.

But none of that really matters when the truth is the modern usage will be they think and intend it to mean 'mixed-race' and in no way derogatory or demeaning.

You should also know there are PLENTY of words for which the original latin origins centuries ago would NOT mean what they do today.
If you actually applied to that rule yourself it would render you nearly speechless.
Which might be nice.

(nice.. a french town I mean huh?)

[DigitalSid]

Wrong.
See the lesson I gave you in another thread about how words work and evolve and meanings change as the users decide them.

In fact, almost everyone who uses that term today believes they are using the word 'cast'.
As in casting in a mold. As in the substance being poured into, put into (cast) the mold.
They do not even suppose it is from an Indian 'caste' system and even if they did they don't believe it is 'caste' as a latin for 'pure'.
and,
EVEN IF they supposed 'caste' referred to 'pure' they still do not intend this to mean 'less than half pure',
but,
are saying it in the sense of "My mother was pure German and my Father was pure English".
They mean that 'either half' was 'pure ___' and not that one is 'half pure and half impure'.

But none of that really matters when the truth is the modern usage will be they think and intend it to mean 'mixed-race' and in no way derogatory or demeaning.

You should also know there are PLENTY of words for which the original latin origins centuries ago would NOT mean what they do today.
If you actually applied to that rule yourself it would render you nearly speechless.
Which might be nice.

(nice.. a french town I mean huh?)

Can you not write anything in under 200 words? You do this in the main forum too. I know people don't know what it means when they say it and that they intend it to mean something different, but my explination IS why it's deemed offensive and which is what the OP was asking for :rolleyes: and is what the term actually means.

[ange7]

It has NOTHING to do with being PC Banana.

Caste = latin word for pure therefore half caste = half pure

It comes from the Indian class system.

When you call someone half caste you are calling them half pure and lower class.

That^'s why it's offensive.
Nice ... you explained it in about 4 paragraphs less than I did. Serves me right for trying to break it down for poor ol' poximo.

[ange7]

me:"Half-caste" historically has been used to ostracize and demean the children from mixed parents and refers to them being 'lesser' or 'inferior' ...
El:'I doubt that but it doesn't matter what the historical usage was. It matter what the common usage is and in what meaning the sender intends to put into the word envelope.'
So first your point was that the 'receiver' (your words) and how they take the racial slur is what determines if it was racist. Now you've changes your tune and said it's "what the person meant" and that 'common usage' should dictate meaning. I agree that common usage dictates meaning but your problem is that YOUR definition isn't in the majority. Your definition of 'half-cats' isn't the common meaning....'cast' as in blah blah ...crazyness. That's just you and your ignorant mates.
Again...ignorance isn't an excuse but if you only ever mix with people like yourself then it won't ever be a problem.. ( but it could get a little crowded under that rock)

[ange7]

Any word or combination of words can be "offensive" depending on the intent behind it - but why on earth people are determined to be "offended" by anything total strangers call them is ridiculous. I really couldn't give a toss what such people think of me or call me - their judgments of me are meaningless. It is the politically correct brigade who have given certain words and phrases the power to "offend" by seeking to ban or censure them.
sorry.... you don't get to choose what minorities find offensive. That's a crazy utopia that you might masturbate to but in real life and among human beings ( the people you peep at through your letter box) words CAN be offensive....even from strangers. Humans are funny that way 'angus'

[ange7]

What's wrong is that people have to tread on egg shells when speaking or writing........PC is about pandering to a bunch of babies who throw their toys out of the pram if a specific wordings of their choice is not used......

Be your self and use words respectfully appropriate. As long as no offence is intended then ignore the babies who can't recognise the difference and want to stifle free expression.......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGAOCVwLrXo

"that's you that is"

"it's political correctness gone mad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!' mahahahaha

[Angus]

sorry.... you don't get to choose what minorities find offensive. That's a crazy utopia that you might masturbate to but in real life and among human beings ( the people you peep at through your letter box) words CAN be offensive....even from strangers. Humans are funny that way 'angus'

Ah dear "Ange", the font of all wisdom and knowledge, and self appointed arbiter of vocabulary who speaks on behalf of the "minorities" who may or may not be offended by this or that spoken word, usually uttered by ignorant and moronic idiots. If you wish to give power to the imbecilic ramblings of such idiots carry on banning and censuring. I, myself, have been called many quite inventive things throughout my life, but since they are the nonsensical and meaningless opinions of strangers who don't even register on my radar, its all water off a duck's back.

I do so enjoy your swoopings in and out of the forum to dispense your predictable and dismissive opinions in your own inimitable patronising style, often interspersed with random metaphor. Full of wind and p*ss in many cases, but no less entertaining for that.

[ElProximo]

me:"Half-caste" historically has been used to ostracize and demean the children from mixed parents and refers to them being 'lesser' or 'inferior' ...

What I correctly told you is that nobody in the UK in this era uses that term in a derogatory way or to mean any sort of 'lesser' or 'inferior' sense.

I did know an Indian family who used the term 'caste' in their context and it was something they were proud of.
They were a little happy to boast of their 'caste' which was the 'highest' and 'best' caste.
However,
nobody in modern Britain or, for that matter, the US, Canada, Oz, NZ.. nobody uses that in a derogatory sense.

In fact almost everyone who ever used the term thinks it means 'half cast' in the sense of being 'cast' from two different gene pools.

I might also mention you refer to 'half-caste' people as 'minorities' which is 'by definition' a lesser and inferior term.
I decided that is offensive and therefore you are guilty. Racist bigot.

[Angus]

[QUOTE=ElProximo;3238437]What I correctly told you is that nobody in the UK in this era uses that term in a derogatory way or to mean any sort of 'lesser' or 'inferior' sense.

I did know an Indian family who used the term 'caste' in their context and it was something they were proud of.
They were a little happy to boast of their 'caste' which was the 'highest' and 'best' caste.
However,
nobody in modern Britain or, for that matter, the US, Canada, Oz, NZ.. nobody uses that in a derogatory sense.

In fact almost everyone who ever used the term thinks it means 'half cast' in the sense of being 'cast' from two different gene pools.

I might also mention you refer to 'half-caste' people as 'minorities' which is 'by definition' a lesser and inferior term.
I decided that is offensive and therefore you are guilty. Racist bigot.[/QUOTE


I find it extremely patronising and self aggrandising that the self appointed politically correct brigade determine firstly WHO are the "minorities", and secondly get to determine what words and phrases those "minorities" may or may not be offended by. Having thus determined these issues, these sanctimonious and self righteous prigs set about banning and censuring "offensive" vocabulary.

[ElProximo]

I find it extremely patronising and self aggrandising that the self appointed politically correct brigade determine firstly WHO are the "minorities", and secondly get to determine what words and phrases those "minorities" may or may not be offended by. Having thus determined these issues, these sanctimonious and self righteous prigs set about banning and censuring "offensive" vocabulary.


Exactly and I'm now going to say something that seems to surprise most people but I challenge everyone to think about this:

Almost ALL of the people in this PC thinkspeak movement are white privileged liberal elitists,
and,
It is actually the WORST kind of condescending racism there is on the planet.
It is a 'patronising' type of 'white liberal guilt' that is so selfish it finds a way to 'alleviate their guilt' yet by putting it on OTHERS,
and,
then also getting 'credit' afterward.
It is just the most disgusting selfish condescending elitist type of superiority racism there is.

I know for sure many or even most people are momentarily confused that I am calling the PC crowd the worst racists,
but,
all i ask is that people think about this. If you think of it long enough you will see what I mean.

[Wildcat!]

I read through this thread, so I dont need to explain why its offensive anymore, as setanta, sashown, Ange7 and Digitalsid, have explained it perfectly well. If you want know, the answer to the OPs question, refer to their posts.
Now, for the life of me, I cant understand why some of you folks, insist on using terms that others find offensive, just because you dont want to be restricted in what you can, or cannot say. Ever! Surely, its not difficult to just say mixed race, or whatever other term, thats not known to offend?
But, it is a free country, its not illegal to say, so if you insist, use away. Thats fine, if you want to be considered either racist, or ignorant, because you will. I, and most people that I know, find it offensive, period! But again, like I said, its not illegal, so I cant punch you for saying it, I will only be glad to know what type of person you are. Of course there are exceptions when someone just doesnt know it does offend, as I am sure its the case for some people in this thread. BUt Id like to think that when they realize it offends certain people, they will stop using it. If not, carry on. There are people that carry on Using words like the N word for Black people, or the P word, for some asians. Its your right of freedom of expression. NO one can stop you from doing it.
I also have no problem with someone calling themselves half cast, if they so choose, there is nothing wrong with that, Just like if a black person refers to themselves as a ******. Got no problems with that. But If I was of mixed heritage, someone who calls me half cast wouldnt be a person I would have respect for, or even acknowledge. I tend to just ignore such people.

SO there you have it, you know what it means, you know why its offensive, its your choice weather you want to carry on using or not!

PS: for the person who says its not used in a deragatory way in the US, well Ive got new for you: Its not used, ever! Ive never heard it used there, never read about it, if you asked 90% of them, they woudlnt even know what you are reffering to. I think its mainly because people over there dont really refer to them as mixed, most of the time, even if they are. So that term, dont know about the past, but nowadays, it has completely vanished. JUst to tell you, its not difficult never to use it.

[ElProximo]

Surely, its not difficult to just say mixed race, or whatever other term, thats not known to offend?

I told you that 'mixed race' is offensive so why do you insist on using that term?
I asked you use 'half-cast' instead.
Yet you keep using insult terms even after it was explained to you its offensive and derogatory.

Why are you hurting half-cast people like that?
I want you to explain why you offended someone with that 'mixed-race' slur?

Please feel free to explain this to me now?

[Wildcat!]

I told you that 'mixed race' is offensive so why do you insist on using that term?
I asked you use 'half-cast' instead.
Yet you keep using insult terms even after it was explained to you its offensive and derogatory.

Why are you hurting half-cast people like that?
I want you to explain why you offended someone with that 'mixed-race' slur?

Please feel free to explain this to me now?


there you have it! it is a free country indeed, so ahead, carry on, and play dumb while youre at it.
At least people know what kind of a person you are. And at least i know to ignore you from now on!

[Niamh.]

I actually didn't know it was considered offensive Wildcat but having said that I never used the term anyway cos I don't like the sound of it. Not that it comes up much anyhow but yeah I can't understand why people would insist on using it when they know it's offensive other than that their goal is to offend of course

[Crimson Dynamo]

there you have it! it is a free country indeed, so ahead, carry on, and play dumb while youre at it.
At least people know what kind of a person you are. And at least i know to ignore you from now on!

the famous Wildcat IGNORE

hehe