Alcoholism Anorexia ME

[Crimson Dynamo]

Are these diseases or are they just greedy, needy and bloody lazy?

[Niamh.]

what's ME?

[Niamh.]

alcoholism is an addiction rather than a disease I would say

[Crimson Dynamo]

alcoholism is an addiction rather than a disease I would say

ME is that one where the person is tired all the time (not students)


if I take an alcoholic to a desert island for 1 month and he does not drink then he cannot be said to have a physical addiction as it takes 2-3 days for all the alcohol to leave the body.

So are they just greedy buggers who just want more all the time?

[ILoveTRW]

Paula Walnuts from The Real World Key West was an alcoholic anorexic

[Crimson Dynamo]

Paula Walnutz from The Real World Key West was an alcoholic anorexic

AA would be ideal then

[arista]

http://www.cherryflava.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/05/16/britsmoking.jpg


Take Smokers
they get hooked.

[ILoveTRW]

AA would be ideal then

Thenhttp://www.quizlaw.com/blog/images/paula.jpg Now http://pics.myspaceprofiles.org/621/l/50235621_3.jpg

its amazing what a boob job can do for you

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.cherryflava.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/05/16/britsmoking.jpg


Take Smokers
they get hooked.

piercings are not really addictive

[arista]

piercings are not really addictive


Smoking Is
and smokers get Hooked .

[WOMBAI]

Paula Walnuts from The Real World Key West was an alcoholic anorexic

She sounds a real blast! :sleep:

[Crimson Dynamo]

She sounds a real blast! :sleep:

not even a cheap date

[Shasown]

ME and anorexia are illnesses. Alcoholism is an addiction/dependancy. Why dont you try it.

[Barbie]

What is this thread about, anorexia is none of these things, and i doubt the other two are either, illnesses all of them, one way or another

[WOMBAI]

What is this thread about, anorexia is none of these things, and i doubt the other two are either, illnesses all of them, one way or another

I am inclined to view both anorexia and alcoholism - as the self-indulgent behaviour of needy people! Not very sympathic towards either!

[InOne]

I am inclined to view both anorexia and alcoholism - as the self-indulgent behaviour of needy people! Not very sympathic towards either!

Why not Anorexia? It'a an illness. Not a good attitude for a woman to have.

[Tom4784]

Well they've each been proven to be an addiction/disorder so this topic is pointless.

[Crimson Dynamo]

if they are illnesses then why is there no proper medicine?

[ILoveTRW]

She sounds a real blast! :sleep:

you have no idea

and i forgot to add that she was put in hospital by her boyfriend a few week before entering the house, and she was still with him

[setanta]

I am inclined to view both anorexia and alcoholism - as the self-indulgent behaviour of needy people! Not very sympathic towards either!

Tell me that you're joking!

[Claymores]

if they are illnesses then why is there no proper medicine?

Like that one for cancer

[Stu]

I am inclined to view both anorexia and alcoholism - as the self-indulgent behaviour of needy people! Not very sympathic towards either!
Tell that to the thousands of people who honestly want to stop drinking on a psychological level, but need to keep drinking on a physical level.

Or vice versa for the anorexics.

It's not all attention seeking, you know. I am not saying all of them are, but many are sick people. Sick people need help and compassion. Not stern words from someone who hasn't got the faintest idea what they are talking about.

[Shasown]

if they are illnesses then why is there no proper medicine?

There may be no proper medicine but there are a variety of treatment regimes.

There are drugs used in some of those treatments.

Just like there is no cure for the common cold or for flu, but there are drugs that can be used for symptomatic relief.

Why is there not a cure for ignorance and stupidity, you should ask, LT

[setanta]

Tell that to the thousands of people who honestly want to stop drinking on a psychological level, but need to keep drinking on a physical level.

Or vice versa for the anorexics.

It's not all attention seeking, you know. I am not saying all of them are, but many are sick people. Sick people need help and compassion. Not stern words from someone who hasn't got the faintest idea what they are talking about.

Seriously, I'm flabbergasted at people in here, even more so than usual!

[Stu]

http://www.showmethefacts.org/medical-marijuana-facts/anorexia-appetite-stimulant/

Just throwing it out there :joker:.

[WOMBAI]

Why not Anorexia? It'a an illness. Not a good attitude for a woman to have.

That is a very sexist thing to say! Why should a woman be automatically sympathetic to 'eating disorders'.

I believe that although there are some genuine cases - I think a lot of cases are based on the attention-seeking behaviour of insecure girls - far too pre-occupied with the way they look - which eventually leads to physical and mental illness!

[Shasown]

http://www.showmethefacts.org/medical-marijuana-facts/anorexia-appetite-stimulant/

Just throwing it out there :joker:.

Same stuff is also useful for pain relief in MS and also in the treatment of ME :joker:

[InOne]

That is a very sexist thing to say! Why should a woman be automatically sympathetic to 'eating disorders'.

I believe that although there are some genuine cases - I think a lot of cases are based on the attention-seeking behaviour of insecure girls - far too pre-occupied with the way they look - which eventually leads to physical and mental illness!
It's not sexist. But you don't have to be so blunt either. The ones who are really ill don't shout about it, people don't find out often till they are too far gone. So it's hardly attention seeking at all seen as they do their best to hide it. Maybe you should go read up on it before making misinformed views.

[Stu]

Same stuff is also useful for pain relief in ME :joker:
I was also pondering if constant topics denouncing others of the tag of 'illness' and looking down on them was also a symptom of ME.

I think it is :shocked:.

[WOMBAI]

Tell that to the thousands of people who honestly want to stop drinking on a psychological level, but need to keep drinking on a physical level.

Or vice versa for the anorexics.

It's not all attention seeking, you know. I am not saying all of them are, but many are sick people. Sick people need help and compassion. Not stern words from someone who hasn't got the faintest idea what they are talking about.

I completely agree that sick people need help and compassion! I see plenty of genuinely sick people! I guess it just depends on your definition of sick! And who are you to tell me I haven't the faintest idea what I am talking about! A 19 year old expert on anorexia and alcoholism no doubt!

[setanta]

ME is that one where the person is tired all the time (not students)


if I take an alcoholic to a desert island for 1 month and he does not drink then he cannot be said to have a physical addiction as it takes 2-3 days for all the alcohol to leave the body.

So are they just greedy buggers who just want more all the time?

Nah, there's the distinct possibility that he could die from withdrawal without the proper treatment.

[WOMBAI]

It's not sexist. But you don't have to be so blunt either. The ones who are really ill don't shout about it, people don't find out often till they are too far gone. So it's hardly attention seeking at all seen as they do their best to hide it. Maybe you should go read up on it before making misinformed views.

Just because my opinion differs from yours - doesn't make it misinformed! I have read a fair bit on the subject - and formed the opinions that I have!

[Stu]

I completely agree that sick people need help and compassion! I see plenty of genuinely sick people! I guess it just depends on your definition of sick! And who are you to tell me I haven't the faintest idea what I am talking about! A 19 year old expert on anorexia and alcoholism no doubt!
I am not an expert, but I have had friends and acquaintances suffer from both, and have also met a sizeable number of people through being manic depressive who either became manic depressive through suffering with these ailments or whose bipolar disorder acted as a starting point for them.

So I am somewhat informed, yes. And not a damn one of them was looking for attention, from what I could tell.

You are simply wrong. You as much as admitted it yourself.

which eventually leads to physical and mental illness!

[InOne]

Just because my opinion differs from yours - doesn't make it misinformed! I have read a fair bit on the subject - and formed the opinions that I have!

Hmmmm, well not very nice opinions, would you tell a girl that to her face? "Oh stop attention seeking"

[Lucy.]

Just because my opinion differs from yours - doesn't make it misinformed! I have read a fair bit on the subject - and formed the opinions that I have!

Books aren't the be all and end all of knowledge :shocked:
People learn stuff from experiencing them so I'm sure someone who
has witnessed Anorexia/Alcoholism first hand is more inclined to
know that it's not just attention seeking.

[Shasown]

Alcoholism as a disease/illness manifests itself in many ways from the person who goes weeks without end then binges over a self limiting period, to the person who physically/psychologically needs alcohol to function.

It may seem to some to be an excuse for drinking however if you have never suffered from it , or have had a close member suffer from it, you have no idea how it really does affect a person and those around him or her.

[Stu]

It's no different from people who attempt suicide as a way of seeking attention. They might have been seeking attention, yes, but they damn well deserve the attention - professional attention - if that's how they were trying to go about getting it!

There is almost always an underlying mental disorder that drives people to these actions. They don't wake up and decide to kill themselves over time as a way of getting attention. They need treatment and if this thread has proved anything - it has proved that there is absoloutely no place for ignorant people to come along, spew out a few vague 'tough law' statements and go back to whatever they were doing.

When you are dealing with the mind, it's never that simple I'm afraid. Delicate ****er that it is :).

[InOne]

To say it is purely attention seeking is pretty narrow minded, ignorant and shallow really.

[WOMBAI]

Hmmmm, well not very nice opinions, would you tell a girl that to her face? "Oh stop attention seeking"

No - I wouldn't - but it wouldn't stop me possibly thinking it! It depends on the situation! Once a person has become very ill - I would want to help them recover - and would offer all the support necessary for that - but that may not change my views on how they had become that ill in the first place!

[WOMBAI]

Books aren't the be all and end all of knowledge :shocked:
People learn stuff from experiencing them so I'm sure someone who
has witnessed Anorexia/Alcoholism first hand is more inclined to
know that it's not just attention seeking.

I have worked on wards with a lot of alcoholic patients - and I know what they can be like - believe me! And I only mentioned the books - because a poster told me to read up on it!

[InOne]

No - I wouldn't - but it wouldn't stop me possibly thinking it! It depends on the situation! Once a person has become very ill - I would want to help them recover - and would offer all the support necessary for that - but that may not change my views on how they had become that ill in the first place!

Why do you think they might have 'become' ill then?

[Stu]

I wonder do these people also hold the same view of soldier amputees. **** em'. Nobody forced them into the army.

[WOMBAI]

I wonder do these people also hold the same view of soldier amputees. **** em'. Nobody forced them into the army.

Well if you can see a similarity between men risking their lives and those that spend their days knocking back the booze - good luck to you!

[Stu]

Well if you can see a similarity between men risking their lives and those that spend their days knocking back the booze - good luck to you!
Once again you are refuting a non existent statement as your primary defence mechanism.

[Claymores]

.........and the Stu/WOMBAI juggernaut rolls onwards and upwards :dance:

[WOMBAI]

Once again you are refuting a non existent statement as your primary defence mechanism.

A bit of tit for tat Stu! You a revelling in this one! Far too personal to be taken seriously!

[InOne]

You were wrong WOMBAI, just admit it. Opinions don't really come into it.

[Stu]

A bit of tit for tat Stu! You a revelling in this one! Far too personal to be taken seriously!
Uhh ...

... ?

... someone help me out here.

[Lucy.]

A bit of tit for tat Stu! You a revelling in this one! Far too personal to be taken seriously!

:conf: Erm, what?

[setanta]

Ah, Stu, I'm listening to you waffle on youtube. Very good.

[Mrluvaluva]

Change of tack for Wombai as per usual. Make everything to be like a personal attack as always. Just to distract from the subject in hand when she has ran out of any credible arguments she thought she had in the first place.

[Stu]

Ah, Stu, I'm listening to you waffle on youtube. Very good.
And, as it happens, here I am munching down a plate of waffles :blush:.

[setanta]

And, as it happens, here I am munching down a plate of waffles :blush:.

The crisps or toaster variety?

[Stu]

The crisps or toaster variety?
The frozen Birds Eye variety haha.

[setanta]

The frozen Birds Eye variety haha.

Haven't had them in ages. Now I'm hungry! Tea and cig time.

[WOMBAI]

You were wrong WOMBAI, just admit it. Opinions don't really come into it.

Maybe you are just being very pc about this!

[InOne]

Maybe you are just being very pc about this!

It's not being PC it's just the facts...

[setanta]

Maybe you are just being very pc about this!

Nah Wombai, you've lost the run of yourself here. Alcoholics don't have a say.... it's a self-destructive illness and to think of them merely as people who should have known better is making a mockery of the pain and anguish that many suffer as a result of it.

[Stu]

Maybe you are just being very pc about this!
PC? Jesus christ. It's not being PC, it's just fact. Are you being serious? Yeahhhh! Those people aint sick, they are just silly! Look at how un PC I am being everyone!

Edit : Beaten to it :(.

[WOMBAI]

Change of tack for Wombai as per usual. Make everything to be like a personal attack as always. Just to distract from the subject in hand when she has ran out of any credible arguments she thought she had in the first place.

I don't need a credible argument - I have an opinion - that is based on some experience! I wonder how many of those having sarcastic little digs have any experience of their own! People have different experiences - and my opinions are based on mine! There is no right or wrong in this! Some people just like to think that those who think differently are wrong! I expressed an honest opinion - just because it wasn't a popular one - does not justify the aggressive response from some!

[Lucy.]

I don't need a credible argument - I have an opinion - that is based on some experience! I wonder how many of those having sarcastic little digs have any experience of their own! People have different experiences - and my opinions are based on mine! There is no right or wrong in this! Some people just like to think that those who think differently are wrong! I expressed an honest opinion - just because it wasn't a popular one - does not justify the aggressive response from some!

Actually the NHS would tell you that you ARE wrong.

[Stu]

I don't need a credible argument - I have an opinion - that is based on some experience! I wonder how many of those having sarcastic little digs have any experience of their own! People have different experiences - and my opinions are based on mine! There is no right or wrong in this! Some people just like to think that those who think differently are wrong! I expressed an honest opinion - just because it wasn't a popular one - does not justify the aggressive response from some!
Your opinion is somewhat handicapped though. You said you worked on wards with alcoholics. That's bound to turn anyone sour, understandably so, cleaning up piss and taking abuse from them.

It's an opinion clouded by your profession. And as the topic title asks are they illneses/diseases, and they are, opinions need not apply.

Also, your posts I notice got slightly more compassionate as they went along. Your initial 'opinion' was misguided to say the least :

I am inclined to view both anorexia and alcoholism - as the self-indulgent behaviour of needy people! Not very sympathic towards either!

Very vague, cruel, sweeping statement that people were obviously going to have issue with.

[WOMBAI]

PC? Jesus christ. It's not being PC, it's just fact. Are you being serious? Yeahhhh! Those people aint sick, they are just silly! Look at how un PC I am being everyone!

Edit : Beaten to it :(.

Well when you have seen really sick people, people in pain with cancer etc, being upset and disturbed by disruptive, rude, aggresive people - with drink problems - maybe you might see things from a different view - but then again!

[Stu]

Well when you have seen really sick people, people in pain with cancer etc, being upset and disturbed by disruptive, rude, aggresive people - with drink problems - maybe you might see things from a different view - but then again!
Actually I wouldn't view things differently, because that has nothing to do with the root problem. Of course they are going to act like wankers. They are alcoholics.

You can't contrast them with ****ing cancer patients. It's hardly as if any of us are condoning the harrasment of cancer patients!

I'm sure you will agree that if we put as much attention into hospitals as we did certain other things nevermind ward, alcoholics would be on a different floor to the cancer patients.

This is also testament to my last point that your opinion is biased by what you see from your end in the workplace.

[WOMBAI]

Your opinion is somewhat handicapped though. You said you worked on wards with alcoholics. That's bound to turn anyone sour, understandably so, cleaning up piss and taking abuse from them.

It's an opinion clouded by your profession. And as the topic title asks are they illneses/diseases, and they are, opinions need not apply.

Also, your posts I notice got slightly more compassionate as they went along. Your initial 'opinion' was misguided to say the least :



Very vague, cruel, sweeping statement that people were obviously going to have issue with.

It may have been a sweeping statment - but one I know a lot of people agree with! The moral outrage - from you and one or two others is just laughable!

[InOne]

It may have been a sweeping statment - but one I know a lot of people agree with! The moral outrage - from you and one or two others is just laughable!

I doubt a lot of people would agree. Just seems a pretty narrow minded view.

[setanta]

It may have been a sweeping statment - but one I know a lot of people agree with! The moral outrage - from you and one or two others is just laughable!

It's not really Wombai. You're wrong here... totally wrong. I've seen what alcoholism and anorexia can do to people.

[Mrluvaluva]

Well when you have seen really sick people, people in pain with cancer etc, being upset and disturbed by disruptive, rude, aggresive people - with drink problems - maybe you might see things from a different view - but then again!

Why do you assume other people have not seen things like this?

[Lucy.]

Well when you have seen really sick people, people in pain with cancer etc, being upset and disturbed by disruptive, rude, aggresive people - with drink problems - maybe you might see things from a different view - but then again!

Just because they don't have Cancer doesn't mean they aren't really sick in their own rights. They deserve help too even if it isn't in the same way.

[Stu]

It may have been a sweeping statment - but one I know a lot of people agree with! The moral outrage - from you and one or two others is just laughable!
Good for them. The world will always have ignorant people. I wonder do they know they are wrong. After all, Alcoholism and Anorexia are illnesses. Unless you want to disagree with every expert body in the field in ****ing existence.

As for the moral outrage from me and others being laughable? How so? We have pefectly acceptable, valid, correct points.

It really does speak for everything you are starting to stand for on this forum that you see fit to not reply to the majority of my post and simply wave away all our arguments as 'laughable' because they disagree with your own misguided opinion on the matter.

What's laughable about them? We had every right to offer up a rebuttal to what was an extremely narrow minded, scientifically invalid, potentially offensive, sweeping comment that you made in your original post.

No doubt this will somehow end up as you being the victim of our combined forum tyranny.

Give me a ****ing break. Really.

[WOMBAI]

It's not really Wombai. You're wrong here... totally wrong. I've seen what alcoholism and anorexia can do to people.

You know I value your opinion Setanta - but as I said - different experiences, different opinions! I am not going to lie about my feelings to please others! People can't force people to think the way they do by aggressive put-downs and name-calling - it doesn't work like that!

[setanta]

You know I value your opinion Setanta - but as I said - different experiences, different opinions! I am not going to lie about my feelings to please others! People can't force people to think the way they do by aggressive put-downs and name-calling - it doesn't work like that!

I'm not being aggressive here though. It's just a fact that they're illnesses with the patients deserving compassion and understanding.

[InOne]

You know I value your opinion Setanta - but as I said - different experiences, different opinions! I am not going to lie about my feelings to please others! People can't force people to think the way they do by aggressive put-downs and name-calling - it doesn't work like that!

Your opinion is a wrong opinion though. For what you said there is a right and wrong answer and you are wrong!

[Stu]

You know I value your opinion Setanta - but as I said - different experiences, different opinions! I am not going to lie about my feelings to please others! People can't force people to think the way they do by aggressive put-downs and name-calling - it doesn't work like that!
Nobody called you any names. Like I expected you are playing the victim.

I appreciate that you have opinions formed from the workplace, really - I do, but there is no room for these opinions in the greater domain of science and healthcare, both mental and physical!

[WOMBAI]

Good for them. The world will always have ignorant people. I wonder do they know they are wrong. After all, Alcoholism and Anorexia are illnesses. Unless you want to disagree with every expert body in the field in ****ing existence.

As for the moral outrage from me and others being laughable? How so? We have pefectly acceptable, valid, correct points.

It really does speak for everything you are starting to stand for on this forum that you see fit to not reply to the majority of my post and simply wave away all our arguments as 'laughable' because they disagree with your own misguided opinion on the matter.

What's laughable about them? We had every right to offer up a rebuttal to what was an extremely narrow minded, scientifically invalid, potentially offensive, sweeping comment that you made in your original post.

No doubt this will somehow end up as you being the victim of our combined forum tyranny.

Give me a ****ing break. Really.

Hence people will not speak up and state their opinions if they consider that they may not be popular ones on this forum - for fear of such an aggressive response from some posters! Free speech apparently is not so free - not on this forum! Makes a mockery of this being a debate forum!

It is not so much what you say, but the way you say it - you are just an aggressive twit who can think what the hell he likes - it doesn't bother me - as I know you don't speak for everyone!

[Lucy.]

Hence people will not speak up and state their opinions if they consider that they may not be popular ones on this forum - for fear of such an aggressive response from some posters! Free speech apparently is not so free - not on this forum! Makes a mockery of this being a debate forum!

It is not so much what you say, but the way you say it - you are just an aggressive twit who can think what the hell he likes - it doesn't bother me - as I know you don't speak for everyone!

Noone was aggressive. Get over it.
You have just turned to the blame game because you know you are up **** creek without a paddle.

[InOne]

WOMBAI, you know why everyone pounced on you, you should read back to that post and see how ridiculous it sounds. You've been proven wrong, you'll never admit it so best just to bow out.

[Mrluvaluva]

You know I value your opinion Setanta - but as I said - different experiences, different opinions! I am not going to lie about my feelings to please others! People can't force people to think the way they do by aggressive put-downs and name-calling - it doesn't work like that!

Nobody is forcing you to do anything. They are just expressing their opinions, experiences and knowledge. A good positive discussion with valid points have been known to actually educate open minded people and change some of their views. Myself included. No ulterior motive.

[Shaun]

There's also the inevitability that both of the "illnesses" at topic will lead to other health problems, so there's no real weight behind underestimating them: alcohol dependency will ultimately lead to liver + heart problems; anorexia to certain deficiencies and all sorts of problems.

Uuuh. I've lost my trail of thought. Yes, they're illnesses. Why am I arguing this?

[Stu]

Hence people will not speak up and state their opinions if they consider that they may not be popular ones on this forum - for fear of such an aggressive response from some posters! Free speech apparently is not so free - not on this forum! Makes a mockery of this being a debate forum!

It is not so much what you say, but the way you say it - you are just an aggressive twit who can think what the hell he likes - it doesn't bother me - as I know you don't speak for everyone!
You were wrong.

Stop pretending it's about opinions. It's not. You seeing pissheads being pissheads in the workplace is just you seeing how pissheads act. It has nothing to do with the greater situation! It's like me saying Anorexia is not a valid illness because I saw an anorexic climb a ****ING tree!

Again you are relentlessly playing the victim. Nobody is stopping you from posting your opinion, it's just not in line with any fact based evidence that exists in the world of science, that's all. Post it away and people will attack it away. After all, this is a discussion forum.

I find it hillarious that nobody called you a name in this thread yet you still played the victim card, now it's you calling me the name.

[Stu]

You can condense the entire topic down to this one post :

Well they've each been proven to be an addiction/disorder so this topic is pointless.

[Mrluvaluva]

People can't force people to think the way they do by aggressive put-downs and name-calling - it doesn't work like that!


you are just an aggressive twit


Hmm. I think I may leave this thread before being accused of being childish or part of a witch hunt.

[WOMBAI]

WOMBAI, you know why everyone pounced on you, you should read back to that post and see how ridiculous it sounds. You've been proven wrong, you'll never admit it so best just to bow out.

Sorry Inone - but I don't agree anything has been 'proven' one way or the other! What people fail to acknowledge is that even the 'experts' often disagree on whether certain conditions are really illnesses or not! Many disagree on ME for example, AHAD is another! Yes people with alcohol problems and anorexia eventually become physically ill - no disputing that - but my original comments were about the root causes!

[InOne]

Sorry Inone - but I don't agree anything has been 'proven' one way or the other! What people fail to acknowledge is that even the 'experts' often disagree on whether certain conditions are really illnesses or not! Many disagree on ME for example, AHAD is another! Yes people with alcohol problems and anorexia eventually become physically ill - no disputing that - but my original comments were about the root causes!

But it is a sweeping statement still. And they will often get debated with. Obviously mental health professionals disagree, but sweeping statements like that does no good for stigma and stops people opening up.

[Stu]

Sorry Inone - but I don't agree anything has been 'proven' one way or the other! What people fail to acknowledge is that even the 'experts' often disagree on whether certain conditions are really illnesses or not! Many disagree on ME for example, AHAD is another! Yes people with alcohol problems and anorexia eventually become physically ill - no disputing that - but my original comments were about the root causes!
Your original comment was a hideously misguided sweeping statement that marganalized plenty of genuine sufferers to the level of attention seeking neanderthals.

And like people have already said, it doesn't matter what caused it. Attention seeking or not. They need help and compassion. Nobody wants to be dying of anorexia, and I have yet to meet a drug addict who is happy with his state of affairs. I am a firm believer that people can be made better, no matter how or why they got themselves into the mess they are in.

Also, the topic asked were they illnesses and diseases. You explicity replied that they were just attention seekers, which would cause many to assume you did not think they were diseases or illnesses. Now all of a sudden you are admitting they are and it's just the root problems you were talking about?

Anyway, enough of me and my laughable moral outrage :rolleyes:.

[WOMBAI]

Actually the NHS would tell you that you ARE wrong.

Publicly maybe - but personal opinions might be somewhat different!

[Lucy.]

Sorry Inone - but I don't agree anything has been 'proven' one way or the other! What people fail to acknowledge is that even the 'experts' often disagree on whether certain conditions are really illnesses or not! Many disagree on ME for example, AHAD is another! Yes people with alcohol problems and anorexia eventually become physically ill - no disputing that - but my original comments were about the root causes!

Well the experts who sectioned my friend for Anorexia certainly didn't think she was just 'attention seeking'. Case closed me thinks.

[WOMBAI]

Well the experts who sectioned my friend for Anorexia certainly didn't think she was just 'attention seeking'. Case closed me thinks.

As I said - different experiences - you are coming at it from a different direction to me! And besides - did I not say - that I believed there were some genuine cases! Some people are overreacting big time to my words! It is not a personal attack on your friend - no need to take it that way! I don't know anything about her - so have no opinion!

[Lucy.]

I am inclined to view both anorexia and alcoholism - as the self-indulgent behaviour of needy people! Not very sympathic towards either!

Need I go on?

[WOMBAI]

Need I go on?

"I believe that although there are some genuine cases"

Need I go on! You are assuming that I would think your friend was not a genuine case! As I said - I have no opinion on your friend - I know nothing about her!

[Tom4784]

if they are illnesses then why is there no proper medicine?

You can't treat addiction with medication and you can only treat Anorexia with therapy and routine and such. I don't know enough about ME to talk about treatment but if it's medically proven to exist then there's little room for debate.

[WOMBAI]

I'm not being aggressive here though. It's just a fact that they're illnesses with the patients deserving compassion and understanding.

I didn't mean you!

[WOMBAI]

Noone was aggressive. Get over it.
You have just turned to the blame game because you know you are up **** creek without a paddle.

Lucy - to be fair - you don't know all the facts!

[Tom4784]

As for the Wombai stuff, opinion doesn't matter in this topic it's all about fact. I could argue that air doesn't exist until I was blue in the face and say that it's my opinion but it doesn't make me right.

At the end of the day fully trained experts in these fields know a lot more about this then us and if they say it's real and have proved it then what is there to discuss?

[setanta]

I've always believed that you can be genetically predisposed to becoming addicted to alcohol, as you can with depression etc. So no, I think that the root of the problem doesn't detract from the empathy I have towards anyone with these afflictions.

[Vicky.]

Well they've each been proven to be an addiction/disorder so this topic is pointless.

This tbh...

Though the topic has certainly opened my eyes about some stuff :shocked:

[Lucy.]

"I believe that although there are some genuine cases"

Need I go on! You are assuming that I would think your friend was not a genuine case! As I said - I have no opinion on your friend - I know nothing about her!

In the same way you know nothing about the majority of Alcholics and Anorexics yet you still think you can claim to know about the root of their problem.

[WOMBAI]

In the same way you know nothing about the majority of Alcholics and Anorexics yet you still think you can claim to know about the root of their problem.

I know about quite a few alcoholics actually - both personally and professionally! You really are making a lot of assumptions aren't you! You obviously know the majority of them then! One affected friend does not an expert make!

[Lucy.]

I know about quite a few alcoholics actually - both personally and professionally! You really are making a lot of assumptions aren't you! You obviously know the majority of them then! One affected friend does not an expert make!

Quit '!' at me it doesn't make your point any less ridiculous.

[WOMBAI]

Quit '!' at me it doesn't make your point any less ridiculous.

You take everything very personally! My exclamation marks are just the way I type! Again - no need to take it so personally!

[Niamh.]

I am inclined to view both anorexia and alcoholism - as the self-indulgent behaviour of needy people! Not very sympathic towards either!

I think they can be symptoms of a psychological problem. I had a cousin who was anorexic as a teenager and then went on to be an alcoholic.

[Lucy.]

You take everything very personally! My exclamation marks are just the way I type! Again - no need to take it so personally!

If you have made a judgement many deem to be unfair, on something I have seen first-hand and how it affects them, I will obviously take it personally.

[setanta]

I'll give you a little example Julia. 4 siblings, all did reasonably well in their lives, with no history of alcoholism with relation to their father, mother or grandparents and yet 3 of them are already dead from alcohol related illnesses and the other is still a heavy drinker. That spells illness to me.

[WOMBAI]

I think they can be symptoms of a psychological problem. I had a cousin who was anorexic as a teenager and then went on to be an alcoholic.

I appreciate your reasonable response Niamhxo!

I know it is an emotive subject - but all I know is, for instance, many alcoholics make their families' lives a misery - and they are pre-occupied with their own needs! And yes I agree that for many there are underlying psychological problems - sometimes environmental problems - but I can't help but think some just selfishly abuse alcohol - and then expect help and understanding when the inevitable happens! I simply don't agree that all alcoholics are victims!

[Angus]

I've always believed that you can be genetically predisposed to becoming addicted to alcohol, as you can with depression etc. So no, I think that the root of the problem doesn't detract from the empathy I have towards anyone with these afflictions.

There is also a body of research that has identified a genetic predisposition to anorexia/bulimia. I find it incredible that some people are so dismissive of these serious illnesses which have quite a high mortality rate. To call such sufferers "needy" is incredibly unfeeling. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME) is now recognised as a serious chronic condition and to call sufferers "lazy" who are suffering from this is crass to say the least.

I doubt that anyone would want to suffer from an illness that is as debilitating as anorexia or ME, just in order to gain attention, especially as such attention, judging by some of the comments on this thread, are derogatory and unsympathetic.

It is also well known now that some people do have an addictive personality disorder which predisposes their addiction to alcohol/drugs/food/cigarettes etc, and there, but for the grace of god, go you or I.

[Niamh.]

I appreciate your reasonable response Niamhxo!

I know it is an emotive subject - but all I know is, for instance, many alcoholics make their families' lives a misery - and they are pre-occupied with their own needs! And yes I agree that for many there are underlying psychological problems - sometimes environmental problems - but I can't help but think some just selfishly abuse alcohol - and then expect help and understanding when the inevitable happens! I simply don't agree that all alcoholics are victims!

I think you're right, it's like everything else no situation is ever the same and rarly black and white. I do believe my cousin had psychological issues, she came from a very good family and was highly intelligent, she was a dentist. But I do think in some cases you're absolutely right

[WOMBAI]

I think you're right, it's like everything else no situation is ever the same and rarly black and white. I do believe my cousin had psychological issues, she came from a very good family and was highly intelligent, she was a dentist. But I do think in some cases you're absolutely right

:thumbs:

[Shasown]

I appreciate your reasonable response Niamhxo!

I know it is an emotive subject - but all I know is, for instance, many alcoholics make their families' lives a misery - and they are pre-occupied with their own needs! And yes I agree that for many there are underlying psychological problems - sometimes environmental problems - but I can't help but think some just selfishly abuse alcohol - and then expect help and understanding when the inevitable happens! I simply don't agree that all alcoholics are victims!

Of course there will be a certain amount of selfishness in it, there is in all cases of addiction. You know its bad for you and you want to stop, however wanting to stop wont cure the psychological and physiological symptoms of the addiction.

In order to become an addict you have to start using whatever you become addicted to, however thats not to say people decide deliberately to become addicted, most addicts dont realise they are addicted till they realise they have little or no control over it. So in a way yes they are selfish.

Obvously there will be people who during the time of their addiction and treatment are selfish, some will be weak and give in all too easily.

However prior to condemning them, people should try walking in their shoes for a while.

[sooty]

Some people are overreacting big time to my words!

I tend to agree this.

[WOMBAI]

Of course there will be a certain amount of selfishness in it, there is in all cases of addiction. You know its bad for you and you want to stop, however wanting to stop wont cure the psyciological and psychological symptoms of the addiction.

In order to become an addict you have to start using whatever you become addicted to, however thats not to say people decide deliberately to become addicted, most addicts dont realise they are addicted till they realise they have little or no control over it. So in a way yes they are selfish.

Obvously there will be people who during the time of their addiction and treatment are selfish, some will be weak and give in all too easily.

However prior to condemning them, people should try walking in their shoes for a while.

Whilst I agree with some of what you say - there is an awful lot of help out there for people today - but so many just don't want to know! We know when we discharge them from the ward - they will go straight to the nearest pub - and probably be re-admitted - it is so frustrating!

[setanta]

Whilst I agree with some of what you say - there is an awful lot of help out there for people today - but so many just don't want to know! We know when we discharge them from the ward - they will go straight to the nearest pub - and probably be re-admitted - it is so frustrating!

That's why it's called the Demon drink. It grabs a hold of some people and never lets go.

[Stu]

Whilst I agree with some of what you say - there is an awful lot of help out there for people today - but so many just don't want to know! We know when we discharge them from the ward - they will go straight to the nearest pub - and probably be re-admitted - it is so frustrating!
That's what addiction is!

Liken it to an OCD trait. Does the man with OCD NEED to flick the light switch four times? Absoloutely not. And nobody is forcing him to. But the help he needs to not do it is unbelievable.

[sooty]

I wonder do these people also hold the same view of soldier amputees. **** em'. Nobody forced them into the army.

If nobody wishes to be soldiers, who is going to protect this country?

[sooty]

I really admire people who can express their opinion regardless right or wrong.



Wombai

I think you have had enough for this topic tonight at least.

Please visit "Easy listening music". I left a peaceful music "Zen Garden" for you. Enjoy :)

[Shasown]

Whilst I agree with some of what you say - there is an awful lot of help out there for people today - but so many just don't want to know! We know when we discharge them from the ward - they will go straight to the nearest pub - and probably be re-admitted - it is so frustrating!

Yep that is true. I know that from personal experience, however, they understand it is self destructive, yet still follow that trend countless times in some cases.

Obviously some just dont care but there are also those who really cant help themselves.

[Stu]

If nobody wishes to be soldiers, who is going to protect this country?
I think you missed the point. I wasn't suggesting let's all stop being soldiers.

In an ideal world, nobody would need protecting from anything. I think soldiers should stay at home until a real threat emerges, not go to an illegal war nudged in by the Yanks. But that's a whole different topic :wink:.

[sooty]

I think you missed the point. not go to an illegal war. But that's a whole different topic :wink:.

Got it.

[Shasown]

I think you missed the point. I wasn't suggesting let's all stop being soldiers.

In an ideal world, nobody would need protecting from anything. I think soldiers should stay at home until a real threat emerges, not go to an illegal war nudged in by the Yanks. But that's a whole different topic :wink:.

I used to be addicted to Topics, a hazelnut in every bite, not now though and is it just my mouth got bigger or did the bars get smaller?

[WOMBAI]

I used to be addicted to Topics, a hazelnut in every bite, not now though and is it just my mouth got bigger or did the bars get smaller?

Do you want an honest answer? :hugesmile:

[Shasown]

I used to be addicted to Topics, a hazelnut in every bite, not now though and is it just my mouth got bigger or did the bars get smaller?

Do you want an honest answer? :hugesmile:

PMSL Of course I wouldnt have asked if I didnt I very rarely do rhetorical questions. :wink:

[WOMBAI]

[QUOTE=WOMBAI;3240416]

PMSL Of course I wouldnt have asked if I didnt I very rarely do rhetorical questions. :wink:

I know! I for one usually like your answers! Always well informed and usually well balanced! :wink:

[BB_Eye]

At least alcoholism and anorexia are not illnesses cooked up by charlatans like ME is.