the anti gay marriage thing

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

i dont get why people dont agree with gay marriage if they dont have a problem with gay people :conf:

[bansheewails]

Its the whole I don't mind gay people but....... thing. Usually with people like Dave it means they think your going to hell.

[chuff me dizzy]

Dave like the rest of us has a right to his opinion

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

Dave like the rest of us has a right to his opinion

homophobe

[InOne]

He's Christian, what do you expect?

[bansheewails]

Dave like the rest of us has a right to his opinion

Of course he does. Sadly I don't think he has the right to judge people on their morals though.

[Niall]

i dont get why people dont agree with gay marriage if they dont have a problem with gay people :conf:

Same I mean you can't really say you accept gay people but then not let them have equal rights with straight people. It contradicts what he said.

[starry]

Marriage for some people is a religious thing and not just a social custom.

[chuff me dizzy]

homophobe

No way !! far from it ,I have a gay nephew and LOTS of gay mates ,but just because I see no wrong doesnt mean everyone thinks the same ,everyone has a right to thieir own opinion

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

i dont agree with any marriage total ****ing waste of time imo

[chuff me dizzy]

homophobe

YOU jumped on someone earlier for shouting RACIST ,but its ok for YOU to shout homophobe?

[_Seth]

To me, anyone who doesn't support gay marriage is a ****ing idiot.

[Niall]

Marriage for some people is a religious thing and not just a social custom.

Thats very true. Personally I don't think marriage is that significant, after all its just a piece of paper saying you are in a relationship with someone. But because I'm gay, I think we should have equal rights and be allowed to marry one another, I mean love is love right??

[Bigbrofan25]

He is a homophobic bigot I am afraid

Civil marriage between to people of the same sex is fine Gays these days have equal right in this country I find this kind of homophobia discusting in 21st century britain its seems like its become the new racism

[Niall]

He is a homophobic bigot I am afraid

Civil marriage between to people of the same sex is fine Gays these days have equal right in this country I find this kind of homophobia discusting in 21st century britain its seems like its become the new racism

:hello:

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

YOU jumped on someone earlier for shouting RACIST ,but its ok for YOU to shout homophobe?

when was that?

[Bigbrofan25]

:hello:

I support you and all gay people with this even though I am straight myself I have no problem with gays at all and I mean what I say

[_Seth]

He is a homophobic bigot I am afraid

Civil marriage between to people of the same sex is fine Gays these days have equal right in this country I find this kind of homophobia discusting in 21st century britain its seems like its become the new racism

Gay marriage isn't allowed in Britain - just some dumbass civil partnership crap. And homophobia was just as disgusting as in any other century.

[starry]

Marriage to me is just a social custom so it's not a big deal to me. For others though it may go against their beliefs. I don't think it's about being a 'homophobe'. After all if everyone was homosexual there would be no human race it would just die out, lol. I don't agree with homosexual adoption so much, at least I think priority should be given to heterosexual couples as a child has a right to have both a mother and a father if possible.

[You_Tell_Me]

It's ironic what Dave said considering how touchy feely he has been with Mario since Day 1. Me thinks he might be so far in the closet he's back in the party room with Govan.

[chuff me dizzy]

when was that?

on another thread earlier tonight

[Niall]

I support you and all gay people with this even though I am straight myself I have no problem with gays at all and I mean what I say

Thanks! Its nice to hear that once in a while! :hug:

[billy123]

At least dave had the guts to stick to his principles it would have been far easier for him to say yes il do your ceremony thinking il never have to anyway.

[Bigbrofan25]

Gay marriage isn't allowed in Britain - just some dumbass civil partnership crap. And homophobia was just as disgusting as in any other century.

I am aware of this I have a gay friend who feels very strongly about this matter

The fact of the matter is if racism can be put to one side so can homophobia It shouldn`t be mainstream these days its wrong

[pixee]

Just a hunch as to why he wouldn't say it was wrong...100 000k?

I also do agree everyone is entitled to their opinion even if it is 70 years out of date and based on a book.

[Bigbrofan25]

Thanks! Its nice to hear that once in a while! :hug:

You are welcome :thumbs:

[Speedster]

i dont get why people dont agree with gay marriage if they dont have a problem with gay people :conf:

A homophobe by any other name, as Shakespeare didn't say. I think he thought that he'd get away with his comments about gay marriage as long as he didn't say (to the viewing public who were watching) that he didn't like gay people.

[Annie]

Marriage is a religious thing and being gay is a "sin" in the bible so obviously the church doesn't want to have gay marriages in the house of the lord.
The Christain faith has been around for a VERY long time and you cant just change it and scrub certain bits out the bible that you dont really like.
Gay people can have a civil ceremony which is a great thing for them to have.

[MrWong]

Marriage to me is just a social custom so it's not a big deal to me. For others though it may go against their beliefs. I don't think it's about being a 'homophobe'. After all if everyone was homosexual there would be no human race it would just die out, lol. I don't agree with homosexual adoption so much, at least I think priority should be given to heterosexual couples as a child has a right to have both a mother and a father if possible.

I think a child has a right to be loved.

Whether that's with mum and dad, dad and dad or mum and mum.

Straight parents don't have the monopoly on good parenting you know.

[Appearance_Of_A_Junky]

i know a few people that couldnt get married by people of the cloth because they werent the same religion (pros/cath) some people wont marry couples for many stupid reasons. doesnt mean they are anti those people, just that they take the stance of the church. Doesnt mean that dave is homophobic, just means the church is.

[Visage]

It's ironic what Dave said considering how touchy feely he has been with Mario since Day 1. Me thinks he might be so far in the closet he's back in the party room with Govan.

Yes, I had the same thoughts when he had his arm round Mario on tonight's H/L

[30stone]

Marriage is a religious thing and being gay is a "sin" in the bible so obviously the church doesn't want to have gay marriages in the house of the lord.
The Christain faith has been around for a VERY long time and you cant just change it and scrub certain bits out the bible that you dont really like.
Gay people can have a civil ceremony which is a great thing for them to have.

This.


As for philip. a ****ing idiot for not agreeing with gay marrige thats harsh isnt it?

[starry]

I think a child has a right to be loved.

Whether that's with mum and dad, dad and dad or mum and mum.

Straight parents don't have the monopoly on good parenting you know.

Yeh, but an example for a child from a mother AND a father I think is quite useful, and really that would be the case in a normal conception of a child (which would obviously be between a man and a woman, with sperm and ovaries). That's just the facts of life, hard to avoid really lol.

I assume marriage was originally established as an institution to promote a stable environment for development of a family. Nowadays it can mean other things. Of course societies are different over time and in different places, but children are still conceived in the same way. People can have whatever relationships they want but it's logical to expect that the normal situation for a child is to have both mother and father, after all that is what they were born with.

[ourgus]

:conf: I bet you all want the government to cut benefits and services to make things better!!!:nono: DERRR!!! Bloody Dimmocks.

[kisywisy]

Yeh, but an example for a child from a mother AND a father I think is quite useful, and really that would be the case in a normal conception of a child (which would obviously be between a man and a woman, with sperm and ovaries). That's just the facts of life, hard to avoid really lol.

I assume marriage was originally established as an institution to promote a stable environment for development of a family. Nowadays it can mean other things. Of course societies are different over time and in different places, but children are still conceived in the same way. People can have whatever relationships they want but it's logical to expect that the normal situation for a child is to have both mother and father, after all that is what they were born with.

i see your point, but you don't have to be in a relationship to concieve a child.
personally, i see no harm in gay couples raising children. no real evidence to suggest otherwise.

[kisywisy]

:conf: I bet you all want the government to cut benefits and services to make things better!!!:nono: DERRR!!! Bloody Dimmocks.


huh??:conf:

[Shasown]

He is entitled to his own opinion, regardless of how outdated it is. His opinion is coloured by his reading of a very old book which has shaped perceptions for a few thousand years.

All he said was he wouldnt perform a ceremony for same sex, he didnt condemn or criticise, just that in his view his inderstanding of scriptures meant he couldnt prtgotm the ceremony.

A lot of religious people are like that, if thats what they believe fine, let them, you wont change their mind saying they are homophobes.

[bansheewails]

[QUOTE=Shasown;3352350]He is entitled to his own opinion, regardless of how outdated it is. His opinion is coloured by his reading of a very old book which has shaped perceptions for a few thousand years.

All he said was he wouldnt perform a ceremony for same sex, he didnt condemn or criticise, just that in his view his inderstanding of scriptures meant he couldnt prtgotm the ceremony.

A lot of religious people are like that, if thats what they believe fine, let them, you wont change their mind saying they are homophobes.[/QUOTE


But when Josie asked him then to explain why if god loved everyone, and he didn;t object to gays, what was wrong with marrying them, he refused to answer. Which is what annoyed me, very old fashioned religious view, accept what I say and don;t question me. Thats how people understand differing views, by questioning and discussing the issue, not avoiding it.

[Shasown]

He is entitled to his own opinion, regardless of how outdated it is. His opinion is coloured by his reading of a very old book which has shaped perceptions for a few thousand years.

All he said was he wouldnt perform a ceremony for same sex, he didnt condemn or criticise, just that in his view his inderstanding of scriptures meant he couldnt perform the ceremony.

A lot of religious people are like that, if thats what they believe fine, let them, you wont change their mind saying they are homophobes.


But when Josie asked him then to explain why if god loved everyone, and he didn;t object to gays, what was wrong with marrying them, he refused to answer. Which is what annoyed me, very old fashioned religious view, accept what I say and don;t question me. Thats how people understand differing views, by questioning and discussing the issue, not avoiding it.

Ah but thats not the way some religious adherents defend their beliefs, this is where society and reigion tend to divide, religion moves slower than general society, its only recently women were allowed back into some denominations as priests etc, where there is precedent in the New Testament for them not only being priests but also bishops etc.

Still got to give him credit for partially dealing with her questions, its a lot more than most do.

Religion has to be dragged, in many cases into accepting modern social views, in some cases there are religions still stuck in the middle ages if not earlier.

[KG.]

Marriage is a religious thing and being gay is a "sin" in the bible so obviously the church doesn't want to have gay marriages in the house of the lord.
The Christain faith has been around for a VERY long time and you cant just change it and scrub certain bits out the bible that you dont really like.
Gay people can have a civil ceremony which is a great thing for them to have.

Ironically, it's usually religious mugs who try to defend their stance on anti-homosexuality that tend to scrub certain bits out of the bible.

Anybody can pick and choose what they want and what they will from the bible, it's a book of many contradictions.

[Jessica.]

He's Christian, what do you expect?

:nono: I'm Catholic and I don't have a problem with it!

[Bigbrofan25]

Marriage is a religious thing and being gay is a "sin" in the bible so obviously the church doesn't want to have gay marriages in the house of the lord.
The Christain faith has been around for a VERY long time and you cant just change it and scrub certain bits out the bible that you dont really like.
Gay people can have a civil ceremony which is a great thing for them to have.

No thats not equality thats second class status gay people pay the same bloody taxes they are human beings like anyone else

Civil marriage is a secular thing its UK secular law and is done in a register office and not a church this doesn`t affect religious people what so ever

You cannot use religion as a way to stop people doing what they want to do
If you choose to be religious thats fine but you cannot force others o be the same

[Bigbrofan25]

:nono: I'm Catholic and I don't have a problem with it!

Same here I am a liberal catholic and I m very pro gay I wish they would stop saying we`re all the same :nono:

[supergirthuk]

I seriously wouldnt have wanted Dave to be the vicar to marry me and my missus. It was bad enough with the priest being intoxicated from his Friday night session than being on a bender with the lord.

[Jessica.]

Same here I am a liberal catholic and I m very pro gay I wish they would stop saying we`re all the same :nono:

I agree.

[supergirthuk]

There are plenty of places gay people can get married. He is entitled to his opinion. I dont agree with it but its his choice.

However, I didnt like the loaded question by Josie in the first place. I suspect she would have been against gay marriage if he was for it just to give her an excuse to vote for him. She is not as daft as she acts I think.

[BB_Eye]

It's nothing more than his own personal morality. It's not as if he is waving a bible at Mario telling him that his lifestyle is wrong. Is he a little bit brainwashed? Probably, but I am sure he is far too busy worrying about doing the right thing in his own life to go around giving insufferable sermons.

[Shasown]

There are plenty of places gay people can get married. He is entitled to his opinion. I dont agree with it but its his choice.

However, I didnt like the loaded question by Josie in the first place. I suspect she would have been against gay marriage if he was for it just to give her an excuse to vote for him. She is not as daft as she acts I think.

This :thumbs: She is definately a gameplayer.

[Fish_Fingers]

To me, anyone who doesn't support gay marriage is a ****ing idiot.

Ok, so you support the whole "agree-with-me-or-you're-scum" argument?

[Crimson Dynamo]

same reason you cant call a gay man a wife


work it out


marriage is for a man and woman

2 blokes can get together but it aint a marriage, lol

marriages make children and children and families are what makes the world, this needs protection.

breeders have precedent. end of.

[Crimson Dynamo]

This.


As for philip. a ****ing idiot for not agreeing with gay marrige thats harsh isnt it?

its not harsh it is intolerance and bigotry and they type of sadly ironic hysterical response that damages the whole debate.

[arista]

He's Christian, what do you expect?



He is infact a Freak God Nutter.

[Crimson Dynamo]

He is infact a Freak God Nutter.

agreed

and a big fake phoney

[ElProximo]

Speaking of hypocrisy (not exactly but hear me out..)

It is no coincidence that homosexuality and equality for homosexuality, tolerance for homosexuality is happening where?
What countries?
Christian countries.
And not that they are all Christian but western christian nations founded on christian principles.
Its not a fluke coincidence. It is actually BECAUSE of Christianity.
In fact, that so many here are evangelical about 'equality' is BECAUSE they were raised in a culture premised in Christianity.

People take this for granted. You see here where people just presume we should all agree that 'equality' is a RIGHT.
That it IS RIGHT.
That is it universally and objectively correct and morally right that people be treated equal.
Says who?
In many a culture throughout history and today and in a large part of the world that is NOT A GIVEN PREMISE.
That is some 'Christian value' or belief and they would tell you there is NOTHING saying all people are equal or should be.
Just because your Christian based society has that philosophy based on its bible!

This is why 'gay rights' and 'gay marriages' and the ability to make gay media, gay parades etc,
this happens in the most Christian nations.
and,
NOT because it conforms to Christianity but because Christians believe that 'God loves all people' and that people ought to have a 'right' to do what they will (even wrong things) and can't be less for it.

So the next time you are assuming 'equality and justice' are 'rights' you can thank your Christian heritage.
Next time you want gays treated fairly you can thank the New Testament for that belief.

[Angus]

Same I mean you can't really say you accept gay people but then not let them have equal rights with straight people. It contradicts what he said.

He said HE would not conduct a marriage ceremony between a gay couple as this would compromise his Christian beliefs and he is entitled to that stance. It has nothing to do with homophobia. I loathe any type of discrimination where it is unmerited, but in the case of religion which is a personal choice I do not see why someone should have to compromise their faith to accommodate the often secular opinions of others. There are plenty of other Christian demoninations who feel the same way, and would not entertain a gay marriage. Nobody has said gay people cannot get married if they so wish. A lot of ministers will not marry straight people who are not regular churchgoers, and quite right too. The church isn't there as a backdrop to your wedding pics, it should mean something, otherwise go do the deed in a registry office (as I did as I'm not a hypocrite).

If a gay couple want a religious ceremony one would have to ask WHY? when it so clearly states in the bible that homosexuality is not condoned. If you have decided to follow a religion you cannot just cherry pick the bits you agree with and ignore the bits don't.

I

[MojoNixon]

i dont get why people dont agree with gay marriage if they dont have a problem with gay people :conf:

I do have a problem with gay marriage thing.

[stonedape]

Marriage to me is just a social custom so it's not a big deal to me. For others though it may go against their beliefs. I don't think it's about being a 'homophobe'. After all if everyone was homosexual there would be no human race it would just die out, lol. I don't agree with homosexual adoption so much, at least I think priority should be given to heterosexual couples as a child has a right to have both a mother and a father if possible.

Should we also give priority to straight couples that reinforce traditional gender roles over those that send "mixed messages" like teh gaes? Like butch women who are into cars and sports, or effeminate men into musicals and fashion? Or is opposing genitalia the only criteria, regardless of behavior?

breeders have precedent. end of.
Should infertile straight couples get married? Couples over the age of 50?

There are more proslavery verses in the Bible than antigay verses, yet people managed to look beyond so many stupid bits and accept them as "products of their time" we've moved beyond. What people freak out about morally has mostly to do with how you were raised and little to do with the Bible, which I doubt David's read.

His interpretation of Christianity is already so loose, the fact that he's strict on this issue makes him seem even more douchey than a traditional evangelical.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I do have a problem with gay marriage thing.

dont marry a gay then

[MojoNixon]

dont marry a gay then

Thats it! We gonna divorce now.

[Lee.]

He said HE would not conduct a marriage ceremony between a gay couple as this would compromise his Christian beliefs and he is entitled to that stance. It has nothing to do with homophobia. I loathe any type of discrimination where it is unmerited, but in the case of religion which is a personal choice I do not see why someone should have to compromise their faith to accommodate the often secular opinions of others. There are plenty of other Christian demoninations who feel the same way, and would not entertain a gay marriage. Nobody has said gay people cannot get married if they so wish. A lot of ministers will not marry straight people who are not regular churchgoers, and quite right too. The church isn't there as a backdrop to your wedding pics, it should mean something, otherwise go do the deed in a registry office (as I did as I'm not a hypocrite).

If a gay couple want a religious ceremony one would have to ask WHY? when it so clearly states in the bible that homosexuality is not condoned. If you have decided to follow a religion you cannot just cherry pick the bits you agree with and ignore the bits don't.
I

This is a very good point...

[_Seth]

This.


As for philip. a ****ing idiot for not agreeing with gay marrige thats harsh isnt it?

Ok, so you support the whole "agree-with-me-or-you're-scum" argument?

I already said - if I wanted to get married to a dude and it was up to him, he'd deny us marriage. I don't think it's harsh in the least to think of him as scum for that.

[starry]

Should we also give priority to straight couples that reinforce traditional gender roles over those that send "mixed messages" like teh gaes? Like butch women who are into cars and sports, or effeminate men into musicals and fashion? Or is opposing genitalia the only criteria, regardless of behavior?


Should infertile straight couples get married? Couples over the age of 50?

There are more proslavery verses in the Bible than antigay verses, yet people managed to look beyond so many stupid bits and accept them as "products of their time" we've moved beyond. What people freak out about morally has mostly to do with how you were raised and little to do with the Bible, which I doubt David's read.

His interpretation of Christianity is already so loose, the fact that he's strict on this issue makes him seem even more douchey than a traditional evangelical.

I was just saying what marriage was originally probably established for, as I have also made clear it's function has changed considerably over time. Religious people take the older view of it I suppose.

Of course women and men do not have to fit into specific roles, however in general they are different kinds of role models for a child in any society where there are clear differences between men and women (physical and biological ones for example).

I think people confuse sexual equality where people can do what they want in bed (not altogether new, previous societies have had it) and a child's rights which some people I suppose don't value over their own desires.

[Crimson Dynamo]

There are so few gay "marriages" that it hardly is worth the debate and i think numbers are on the decrease?

We should be concentrating on why poorly educated people cannot get married and stay together!

[stonedape]

all marriages are on the decrease, especially with increased education.

and to starry, I would much rather a child be with two sane homosexual men than two insane religious former addicts that happen to be straight like David & Whoever. Or two straight people that get in fights constantly and divorce with kids. My point is that your mental and physical ability should be the #1 criteria, not gender. I just dont get the genitalia obsession, like it matters in reality.

[starry]

It isn't just about genitals that is a ridiculous simplification. Although I suppose some transsexuals may look at it like that.

And yes of course you can have bad parents of whatever type, but that is just trying to confuse the issue with some other unconnected particulars. You might have some homosexual couple who are religious addicts of some type too I suppose.

[Fish_Fingers]

I already said - if I wanted to get married to a dude and it was up to him, he'd deny us marriage. I don't think it's harsh in the least to think of him as scum for that.

You said "To me, anyone who doesn't support gay marriage is a ****ing idiot."

That's a MASSIVE generalisation. And you're showing that you don't have the capability to listen to reason, and that you have no respect for other people's opinions.

[stonedape]

Unconnected particulars? How about totally connected particulars? We're talking about what makes a bad parent or a parent of "less priority", and I'm saying sanity has much more to do with raising kids than anything else. And the strength of your marriage vows. Of course many homosexual couples should NOT have children, just like many straight couples. These are not far off abstractions...my examples were excessive religiosity and divorce, very common traits that I find more practically harmful to a child than being around untraditional gender roles.

[Niamh.]

well he's sure as hell going to have lost alot of public support there!

[BJ]

I'm celebrating my 41st wedding anniversary today so I obviously agree with marriage. I believe civil services are right for all sorts of reasons and hope that in future gays will be allowed to marry if they want to.

Dave has his Christian beliefs, to which he equally entitled and it's just that he didn't want to cause conflict by saying any more. Actually, I think, the same as he didn't chose Govan to be up for eviction because he thought it would make him unpopular

[Crimson Dynamo]

well he's sure as hell going to have lost alot of public support there!

who?

[Zippy]

If you have decided to follow a religion you cannot just cherry pick the bits you agree with and ignore the bits don't.

I

Are you effing serious? Thats EXACTLY what most religious folk do. Selective reading. Truth is you can pick bits out of the bible to justify or condemn anything.

And where does it say in the bible; thou shall molest the choir boys?

[Niamh.]

who?

Well, seeing as this Thread is about Dave, who do you think?????

[karezza]

Homosexuality is antiChristian. David is entitled to his views.

[starry]

Unconnected particulars? How about totally connected particulars? We're talking about what makes a bad parent or a parent of "less priority", and I'm saying sanity has much more to do with raising kids than anything else. And the strength of your marriage vows. Of course many homosexual couples should NOT have children, just like many straight couples. These are not far off abstractions...my examples were excessive religiosity and divorce, very common traits that I find more practically harmful to a child than being around untraditional gender roles.

There may be other things that could be potentially more harmful (or less harmful), really it depends on the individual situation. But that's still a completely different issue.

And it's not about simply gender 'roles'. Men and women are different, some genes are different, the brains are different in some ways. The fact is - whether you like it or not - every child is born with a mother and a father.

[Niamh.]

Homosexuality is antiChristian. David is entitled to his views.

of course he is but it's still going to make him unpopular with alot of the viewing public!

[Angus]

Are you effing serious? Thats EXACTLY what most religious folk do. Selective reading. Truth is you can pick bits out of the bible to justify or condemn anything.

And where does it say in the bible; thou shall molest the choir boys?


Seems you missed my point completely. So I will explain what I mean in detail, albeit this is only my personal opinion. Every single religion has its own belief system and "scriptures". Therefore it is every individual's personal choice to select that religion (or denomination thereof) that jives with their own beliefs, inclinations, moral compass whatever. Therefore a gay person has the same freedom of choice to believe or not believe in whatever a particular religion dictates.

What you don't do is CHOOSE to follow a faith or religion which is quite clearly AGAINST your particular path in life and then bleat and whinge about how it's discriminatory. There are plenty of Christian denominations that condone women priests, and just as many that don't. There are plenty of Christian denominations that condone gay marriage and just as many that don't. It's not like there's not a custom made religion for everybody since there are reportedly over 38000 denominations that ALL consider themselves Christian, so basically the cherry picking has already been done.

By the way I am not religious at all which is why I didn't get married in a Church, nor did I have my children christened since it would have been meaningless and hypocritical. But just because I am not religious doesn't mean I don't respect the right of others to believe what the hell they like.

As regards the molestation of choir boys, I think you'll find that's a given in the Catholic faith in which I was brought up till the age of 16 when I decided I could not believe in the virgin birth or some man in a frock "forgiving" my sins just so long as I spouted a hail mary or two. Like the legal system, the Law is nothing to do with justice, and Religion is often nothing to do with morality.

[monx]

Unfortunately organised judeo-christian, muslim and various other religions are all based on holy books written centuries ago.

The morality taught in these books are based on a society where there was no secular law and the masses needed to be controlled, the way they did this was by promising a heavenly afterlife as long as you followed the rules whilst you are alive.

Society has (in some ways) progressed and same sex relationships are more acceptable to the majority of people. There have been some concessions in civil law to the validity of those relationships but still the religions stick to outdated and unfair doctrines that have little or nothing to do with modern life.

Being homosexual is not a life choice, there is no choice in the matter you either are or are not. The only thing that is near a choice, is to live your life to the full or live a lie and conform.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and whilst Dave says he loves everyone and has no problem with gays he just wont marry them, I find that even if he felt comfortable doing it the scriptures around which he has built his physical and spiritual life around see it as an abomination. He is in a very difficult position and I dont dislike him for being truthful.

I just wish people who seek enlightenment actually find it!

[Speedster]

Dave like the rest of us has a right to his opinion

Good point. A I agree whole hartedly, but it's the one thing about the show that had always driven Me insane; people on the show express an opinion and the public crucifies them for it, them someone else says the same thing, more or less and they get away with it.

The question for Me has always been who's right and who's wrong, and who says which is which, I think the show is rife with double standards.

[chuff me dizzy]

Good point. A I agree whole hartedly, but it's the one thing about the show that had always driven Me insane; people on the show express an opinion and the public crucifies them for it, them someone else says the same thing, more or less and they get away with it.

The question for Me has always been who's right and who's wrong, and who says which is which, I think the show is rife with double standards.

No one whatsoever has the right to tell Dave he is wrong in what he believes ,it is so arrogant to think your opinion is more valid than the next persons

[Speedster]

I think a child has a right to be loved.

Whether that's with mum and dad, dad and dad or mum and mum.

Straight parents don't have the monopoly on good parenting you know.

Very *********g true, there are plenty of hetrosexual parents who abuse their kids all over the country and probably the world. Hetrosexual parent does not mean great parent.

[chuff me dizzy]

Very *********g true, there are plenty of hetrosexual parents who abuse their kids all over the country and probably the world. Hetrosexual parent does not mean great parent.

You only have to look at the vile Mc Canns to see that !

[Speedster]

No one whatsoever has the right to tell Dave he is wrong in what he believes ,it is so arrogant to think your opinion is more valid than the next persons

THAT was My point exactly, but just take time to read the comments on here and the C4 BB site and see how judgemental people are about people they don't know and have never and will never meet.

Yes, we all have a right to our opinions, but the arrogance that goes with express those opinions leaves Me cold.

[chuff me dizzy]

THAT was My point exactly, but just take time to read the comments on here and the C4 BB site and see how judgemental people are about people they don't know and have never and will never meet.

Yes, we all have a right to our opinions, but the arrogance that goes with express those opinions leaves Me cold.

I have read them i can sum it up in one word ..... pathetic

[Angus]

Unfortunately organised judeo-christian, muslim and various other religions are all based on holy books written centuries ago.

The morality taught in these books are based on a society where there was no secular law and the masses needed to be controlled, the way they did this was by promising a heavenly afterlife as long as you followed the rules whilst you are alive.

Society has (in some ways) progressed and same sex relationships are more acceptable to the majority of people. There have been some concessions in civil law to the validity of those relationships but still the religions stick to outdated and unfair doctrines that have little or nothing to do with modern life.

Being homosexual is not a life choice, there is no choice in the matter you either are or are not. The only thing that is near a choice, is to live your life to the full or live a lie and conform.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and whilst Dave says he loves everyone and has no problem with gays he just wont marry them, I find that even if he felt comfortable doing it the scriptures around which he has built his physical and spiritual life around see it as an abomination. He is in a very difficult position and I dont dislike him for being truthful.

I just wish people who seek enlightenment actually find it!

I totally agree with you, but there are countless millions who follow a religion and it is, after all, their choice. I choose not to, but I don't make a point of denigrating other people's beliefs, nor do I expect them to compromise their religious beliefs to accommodate my secular ones.

[Angus]

Unfortunately organised judeo-christian, muslim and various other religions are all based on holy books written centuries ago.

The morality taught in these books are based on a society where there was no secular law and the masses needed to be controlled, the way they did this was by promising a heavenly afterlife as long as you followed the rules whilst you are alive.

Society has (in some ways) progressed and same sex relationships are more acceptable to the majority of people. There have been some concessions in civil law to the validity of those relationships but still the religions stick to outdated and unfair doctrines that have little or nothing to do with modern life.

Being homosexual is not a life choice, there is no choice in the matter you either are or are not. The only thing that is near a choice, is to live your life to the full or live a lie and conform.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and whilst Dave says he loves everyone and has no problem with gays he just wont marry them, I find that even if he felt comfortable doing it the scriptures around which he has built his physical and spiritual life around see it as an abomination. He is in a very difficult position and I dont dislike him for being truthful.

I just wish people who seek enlightenment actually find it!

I totally agree with you, but there are countless millions who follow a religion and it is, after all, their choice. I choose not to, but I don't make a point of denigrating other people's beliefs, nor do I expect them to compromise their religious beliefs to accommodate my secular ones.

[Chuckyegg]

Being straight is no more or less natural that being gay - it's just more common.

It's incredibly patronising to have someone feel sorry for your sexuality - but the fact that he is being told to do so (by whoever wrote the bible) kind of balances it back again.

[MojoNixon]

Being straight isn't natural - it's just very common.

It's incredibly patronising to have someone feel sorry for your sexuality - but the fact that he is being told to do so (by whoever wrote the bible) kind of balances it back again.

So if you hetero, you are sick? And if you wanna suck and hump someones tailpipe (same gender that is), it is normal? Ok...i did not know i was wrong.

[Chuckyegg]

So if you hetero, you are sick? And if you wanna suck and hump someones tailpipe (same gender that is), it is normal? Ok...i did not know i was wrong.

er....what?

Ok, I simplified my previous comment for the hard of learning.

[jimbobster]

Being straight isn't natural - it's just very common.

It's incredibly patronising to have someone feel sorry for your sexuality - but the fact that he is being told to do so (by whoever wrote the bible) kind of balances it back again.

what kind of wierd world do you live in, God never made Adam and Steve or Eve and Eva lmfao, you need a man and woman to have intercourse to have a child and thats what you call natural. If the whole world was gay humans would be exstincted like dinosuars lol. At the end of the day we all know being gay is wrong but sum do it, but its not our duty to judge them as they will have to face the Creator one day and will have to answer for their actions on Earth and as far as i care they can do what they want aslong as they dont put it in my face or influence my children.

peace

above are my personal voiews just like evryone is entitled to a view.

[Chuckyegg]

what kind of wierd world do you live in, God never made Adam and Steve or Eve and Eva lmfao, you need a man and woman to have intercourse to have a child and thats what you call natural. If the whole world was gay humans would be exstincted like dinosuars lol. At the end of the day we all know being gay is wrong but sum do it, but its not our duty to judge them as they will have to face the Creator one day and will have to answer for their actions on Earth and as far as i care they can do what they want aslong as they dont put it in my face or influence my children.

peace

above are my personal voiews just like evryone is entitled to a view.

A straight couple created me.

I don't think I need advice on what's normal from someone who thinks Adam and Eve were real.

I've blocked you.

[Niamh.]

what kind of wierd world do you live in, God never made Adam and Steve or Eve and Eva lmfao, you need a man and woman to have intercourse to have a child and thats what you call natural. If the whole world was gay humans would be exstincted like dinosuars lol. At the end of the day we all know being gay is wrong but sum do it, but its not our duty to judge them as they will have to face the Creator one day and will have to answer for their actions on Earth and as far as i care they can do what they want aslong as they dont put it in my face or influence my children.

peace

above are my personal voiews just like evryone is entitled to a view.

You believe in Adam and Eve? :joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

there are men and there are women


sexual proclivity is a personal thing. men and women mate to make more men and women

that is the natural order that has evolved

no one knows why a small minority of humans prefer their own kind sexually, it may be the way they are brought up.

[jimbobster]

there are men and there are women


sexual proclivity is a personal thing. men and women mate to make more men and women

that is the natural order that has evolved

no one knows why a small minority of humans prefer their own kind sexually, it may be the way they are brought up.

maybe a chemical imbalance in the brain?? who knows but its wierd to me

[Niamh.]

there are men and there are women


sexual proclivity is a personal thing. men and women mate to make more men and women

that is the natural order that has evolved

no one knows why a small minority of humans prefer their own kind sexually, it may be the way they are brought up.

The world is very well populated, infact over populated so being Gay is probably a good thing for the planet!

[Chuckyegg]

Gays, along with religious folk and those unable to concieve are all playing thier part in the population control. It's the same in the animal kingdom. Though admittedly, there are not many Swan Nuns.

[MojoNixon]

Without heteros there would be no nasty mates for em others.

[starry]

Very *********g true, there are plenty of hetrosexual parents who abuse their kids all over the country and probably the world. Hetrosexual parent does not mean great parent.

Nobody said it did. Similarly a homosexual parent doesn't mean a good parent either. But if it is a choice between a 'good' heterosexual couple and a 'good' homosexual couple as a parent then I think the first should get priority.

[Chuckyegg]

I'm glad this discussion has happened. I've been able to stick a whole bunch of ***holes on my ignore list. It was very satisfying. Like when I empty the bins on a Tuesday.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm glad this discussion has happened. I've been able to stick a whole bunch of ***holes on my ignore list. It was very satisfying. Like when I empty the bins on a Tuesday.

and it also highlights to new members who are the typical hysterical "your just a homophobe" types too


:elephant::elephant::elephant:

[matt2201]

For anybody who asks "why do gay people follow a religion that says being gay is a sin?", shouldn't you also be asking "why do adulterers follow a religion not only says that adultery is a sin, but where it's also one of the 10 commandments?".

[Crimson Dynamo]

For anybody who asks "why do gay people follow a religion that says being gay is a sin?", shouldn't you also be asking "why do adulterers follow a religion not only says that adultery is a sin, but where it's also one of the 10 commandments?".

who is asking "why do gay people follow a religion that says being gay is a sin?"

:conf:

apart from you

[Robertocarlo]

Homosexuality is antiChristian. David is entitled to his views.

Yes, and it wasn't so long ago (the 19th century and before) that Christians justified slavery and their apalling of people based on their colour?

Fortunately, we live in more enlightened times so eventually the Church will realise that Gays and Lesbians are born that way and it isn't about a lifestyle choice, far from it, then there will be the same apologies for the horrendous way in which Gays and Lesbians have been treated just the same as the way black people were treated, ALL justified by some obscure passages in the Bible.

[Robertocarlo]

who is asking "why do gay people follow a religion that says being gay is a sin?"

:conf:

apart from you

Many Gay people don't follow Christianity and are either agnostic, total non believers or followers of other religions which are enlightened and tolerant such as Paganism, Wicca etc.

[MojoNixon]

Yes, and it wasn't so long ago (the 19th century and before) that Christians justified slavery and their apalling of people based on their colour?

Fortunately, we live in more enlightened times so eventually the Church will realise that Gays and Lesbians are born that way and it isn't about a lifestyle choice, far from it, then there will be the same apologies for the horrendous way in which Gays and Lesbians have been treated just the same as the way black people were treated, ALL justified by some obscure passages in the Bible.

Like muslims too?

[MojoNixon]

Many Gay people don't follow Christianity and are either agnostic, total non believers or followers of other religions which are enlightened and tolerant such as Paganism, Wicca etc.


Wicca my arse!!! That is biggest BS out there.

[KG.]

Being gay is disgusting yukkk

i dont know how another man would let another man put his nob in another mans dirt hole errrrrrr yukkk

these people must get all sorts of dirty penis diseases lol, i dont mind gays aslong as they keep there gayness to themselves and dont influence society and children coz that is wrong. Alot things on tv these days influence children to be gay and think its the normality when it isnt but what can you do when we have sickos run our tv broadcasting.. oh well we live in a world where everything thats is wrong is right and everything that is right is wrong and thats a fact.:devil:

What a ****ing immature and ill informed post.

[jimbobster]

What a ****ing immature and ill informed post.

Ill informed? yeah right fool, just coz i do not agree with people wrong in there life!

It is disgusting and it is against humanity, you need to wake up and see what is wrong and right or has everyone on this Earth lost there mind and think wrong is right?

I love the gay executions in Iran, atleast they know how to deal with the problem lol:devil:

[Niall]

He said HE would not conduct a marriage ceremony between a gay couple as this would compromise his Christian beliefs and he is entitled to that stance. It has nothing to do with homophobia. I loathe any type of discrimination where it is unmerited, but in the case of religion which is a personal choice I do not see why someone should have to compromise their faith to accommodate the often secular opinions of others. There are plenty of other Christian demoninations who feel the same way, and would not entertain a gay marriage. Nobody has said gay people cannot get married if they so wish. A lot of ministers will not marry straight people who are not regular churchgoers, and quite right too. The church isn't there as a backdrop to your wedding pics, it should mean something, otherwise go do the deed in a registry office (as I did as I'm not a hypocrite).

If a gay couple want a religious ceremony one would have to ask WHY? when it so clearly states in the bible that homosexuality is not condoned. If you have decided to follow a religion you cannot just cherry pick the bits you agree with and ignore the bits don't.



I never said anything about homophobia. All I'm saying is that (even if it does go against his church) I don't really think you can say you accept gay people, and then not allow them equal rights with straight people.

And, I know you can't cherry pick pieces of your religion. I'm Catholic, and I feel that because I'm gay my religion conflicts with who I am -- I feel that because the Catholic church has such a backwards view towards not only homosexuality, but contraception too, that I cannot be confirmed. Don't get me wrong though, those are the parts of my religion I dislike, I love being Catholic lol :)

But if I were to go to church for Christmas/Easter then I would go to a Catholic church though.

[Niall]

Seems you missed my point completely. So I will explain what I mean in detail, albeit this is only my personal opinion. Every single religion has its own belief system and "scriptures". Therefore it is every individual's personal choice to select that religion (or denomination thereof) that jives with their own beliefs, inclinations, moral compass whatever. Therefore a gay person has the same freedom of choice to believe or not believe in whatever a particular religion dictates.

What you don't do is CHOOSE to follow a faith or religion which is quite clearly AGAINST your particular path in life and then bleat and whinge about how it's discriminatory. There are plenty of Christian denominations that condone women priests, and just as many that don't. There are plenty of Christian denominations that condone gay marriage and just as many that don't. It's not like there's not a custom made religion for everybody since there are reportedly over 38000 denominations that ALL consider themselves Christian, so basically the cherry picking has already been done.

By the way I am not religious at all which is why I didn't get married in a Church, nor did I have my children christened since it would have been meaningless and hypocritical. But just because I am not religious doesn't mean I don't respect the right of others to believe what the hell they like.

As regards the molestation of choir boys, I think you'll find that's a given in the Catholic faith in which I was brought up till the age of 16 when I decided I could not believe in the virgin birth or some man in a frock "forgiving" my sins just so long as I spouted a hail mary or two. Like the legal system, the Law is nothing to do with justice, and Religion is often nothing to do with morality.

Ah but what if you were brought up in that faith, like I have been??

This is where it gets tricky.

[Niall]

Ill informed? yeah right fool, just coz i do not agree with people wrong in there life!

It is disgusting and it is against humanity, you need to wake up and see what is wrong and right or has everyone on this Earth lost there mind and think wrong is right?

I love the gay executions in Iran, atleast they know how to deal with the problem lol:devil:

Intolerant ***t.