Telling Ben he has no right.

[smudgie]

:nono: How can he say that Ben has no right to a view on any global opinion as he has never been to war and he is not a politician. What a prat. Surely it is the common man that should have the opinions and the politician that should represent the common man.

[Claymores]

It's on LF - go read DS's WHATM

[oddballmisfitsFTW]

:nono: How can he say that Ben has no right to a view on any global opinion as he has never been to war and he is not a politician. What a prat. Surely it is the common man that should have the opinions and the politician that should represent the common man.

this is first time I heard Steve talk bollocks.

most of the people who fight in wars have no ********* idea why they are there fighting in the first place, just fight for the flag cos their superior orders them to

[Kazanne]

people like Steve ,nathan and co will NEVER listen to anyones opinion (let alone understand)as they are too closeminded and sorry THICK,I was enjoying listening to Bens opinion but as usual he was shot down.

[Kazanne]

proof please. i bet this is just a another twisted quote from Steve hater.

i don't hate Steve but both he and Nathan are pretty close minded.

[DrunkerThanMoses]

He did say that.

[-Sue-]

people like Steve ,nathan and co will NEVER listen to anyones opinion (let alone understand)as they are too closeminded and sory THICK,I was enjoying listening to Bens opinion but as usual he was shot down.

I believe its the other way round.. Ben should remove his head from his azz and stop talking sh*t .. all he cares about is his own opinion he has no time for anyone elses..

[smudgie]

proof please. i bet this is just a another twisted quote from Steve hater.

I don't have a clue how I can give you proof, I dare say plenty of people heard it. I am not a Steve hater, I don't hate anybody in real life let alone some reality show I watch for entertainment.
I don't particularly like Steve, he is far too boorish for me, but I don't stoop to telling fibs.

[karezza]

Ben is entitled to his opinion - Steve hasn't got a leg to stand on.

[MojoNixon]

Watching LF right now. I have nothing against Ben, but Steve is kinda right. Someone who has not seen the horror, don't usually know anything about it.

[JEJ]

I believe its the other way round.. Ben should remove his head from his azz and stop talking sh*t .. all he cares about is his own opinion he has no time for anyone elses..

Absolutely. Ben's idea of a conversation is to wait (looking bored) for the other person to stop talking so he can talk again.

[-Sue-]

Coming from a Ben hater,of course you'de say that.i can see why you would be in the Steve,Nathan camp!!:joker::sleep:

I don't mind it here at all 'giggle factor team' is much better than 'party political broadcast team':joker:

[Chels]

Anyone who says Hitler should have been left be and Britain shouldn't have got involved in the war is a complete ****ing prick IMO. I can't believe he said that, no wonder Steve jumped down his throat!

[-Sue-]

Anyone who says Hitler should have been left be and Britain shouldn't have got involved in the war is a complete ****ing prick IMO. I can't believe he said that, no wonder Steve jumped down his throat!

OMG is that what was said???? OMFG...good man Steve respect where its due

[spitfire]

Anyone who says Hitler should have been left be and Britain shouldn't have got involved in the war is a complete ****ing prick IMO. I can't believe he said that, no wonder Steve jumped down his throat!

Is that what Ben said,really?

[-Sue-]

damn if that is what was really said..... OMFG...

[MojoNixon]

Is that what Ben said,really?

Yes.

[rusticgal]

...Bens frightened national service might come back....can you imagine if he had to do it!!!

[StGeorge]

Watching LF right now. I have nothing against Ben, but Steve is kinda right. Someone who has not seen the horror, don't usually know anything about it.

I am actually Pro-Army and back whats happening with our forces at the moment, but i have to disagree with the premise that only those who have been to war are entitled to have their opinion. That is so wrong in many ways.
I havent seen the footage at all yet. But if it is with regards wars in particular, then i think the everyday man on the street is very clued up to what goes on ever since the Vietnam War.
Experiencing war is one thing, but have a knowledge of and opinion of any particular well televised war scenario is the right of every taxpayer and patriot and anti-war protestor.
Its called democracy and is why we have fought so many wars to have.

[spitfire]

Yes.
I wonder if the holocaust happened in his smug little world.

[Chels]

OMG is that what was said???? OMFG...good man Steve respect where its due

Is that what Ben said,really?

Exactly what he said. ****ing bellend.

[StGeorge]

Anyone who says Hitler should have been left be and Britain shouldn't have got involved in the war is a complete ****ing prick IMO. I can't believe he said that, no wonder Steve jumped down his throat!

If that is what was said then the issue isnt whether he has a right to comment due to not being to war or a politician, its more to do with him talking sh1te.

[Claymores]

...Bens frightened national service might come back....can you imagine if he had to do it!!!

:joker::devil:

Fortunately he's too old!

[Julie10]

People who think they talk the talk don't realise that they too can come across as boring. Ben loves to constantly call people boring but hes boring himself if he wants to talk about politics he should just go into politics. But no that would be too hard for lazy self rightious me me me Benny!

[-Sue-]

Exactly what he said. ****ing bellend.

unbeliveable....(ive finally caught up with the real LF - cant help giggle a bit about them having a serious topic debate/discussion with Dave & Nathan dressed as robots)

Ben is finally getting what he deserves from the HM's I truly believe the HMs realise Ben has gone too far this time..and dishing some home truths excellent and about time!

[-Sue-]

OH no I dont want to watch ife.. I want to watch the nest!

[StGeorge]

:joker::devil:

Fortunately he's too old!

Dad's Army....he would make a good Sgt Wilson.

[-Sue-]

People who think they talk the talk don't realise that they too can come across as boring. Ben loves to constantly call people boring but hes boring himself if he wants to talk about politics he should just go into politics. But no that would be too hard for lazy self rightious me me me Benny!

exactly he is so selfish and self involved that he only thinks his opinions & thoughts matter..he seems oblivious to the fact most of what spouts out of his mouth is vile...arrogant comments

[Marzy]

Steve is a bitter little toad who has a chip on his shoulder. He was a yob before he joined the army and dislikes Ben because he is a toff.

[Claymores]

Dad's Army....he would make a good Sgt Wilson.

Good call! :joker:

[MojoNixon]

Dad's Army....he would make a good Sgt Wilson.

:joker::joker:

Monty Python : Dad's *****

[Amhuinn]

Hitler is a very contentious topic and if Ben said what he did, then he must have known that he would get a pretty explosive reaction. I'm sorry, but he can't be that naive. It is one of those things that people do tend to have a very strong and immediate reaction to. Perhaps they are misunderstanding him, but I think most people would, in all honesty.

I haven't heard what Ben has said (and there's no chance the whole thing will make the highlights within context), so I wouldn't like to judge him entirely from hearsay. He probably has some valid points, but I disagree that Britain should not have become involved in World War II. I think that enough people turned a blind eye before becoming involved as it is.

Ben must have wanted a reaction. He has slipped down in my estimations now and I did really like him. :(

[crit]

Steve is a bitter little toad who has a chip on his shoulder. He was a yob before he joined the army and dislikes Ben because he is a toff.

I think youre right. I saw a rather nastier side of Saint Steve the other evening in the tent making fiasco. Im convinced he has the hots for Corin and when he saw she was upset he did the alpha male bit, not pretty.

Bens opinions about what he thought the best way for Britain to have proceeded to deal with hitler were perfectly valid, in hindsight he might have a point, things might have been better for the UK had we kept out of it. Who knows, its his opinion and doubtless hes being pilloried for voicing it.

I think Saint Steve is a closet bully, will be interesting to watch what happens. Hes very boring, I know he cant get up and dance the hoochie coochie but he still has a mind and personality he could use...but hed rather just shout and gang up on people.

[chuff me dizzy]

people like Steve ,nathan and co will NEVER listen to anyones opinion (let alone understand)as they are too closeminded and sorry THICK,I was enjoying listening to Bens opinion but as usual he was shot down.

At least Ben knows what hes talking about ,he is educated unlike the village idiot and Jeremy Kyle fodder Nathan

[InOne]

People who think they talk the talk don't realise that they too can come across as boring. Ben loves to constantly call people boring but hes boring himself if he wants to talk about politics he should just go into politics. But no that would be too hard for lazy self rightious me me me Benny!

Well said Julie. He is a 30 who talks like a 50 year old but acts like a 15 year old. Ergo - He is a twat.

[Frank E]

"You've got no right to say that. Who are you? You're not an MP."

My MP has considerably less mobility than Steve requiring full time use of a wheelchair yet manages to represent her constituency.

I would listen to her on the history of WW2, not because she is an MP not just because she is a person, but because she has studied the subject matter at an advanced level, obtaining a degree in History and Politics.

[Zippy]

Watching LF right now. I have nothing against Ben, but Steve is kinda right. Someone who has not seen the horror, don't usually know anything about it.

Well Ben can still have an opinion ffs. To say you can only have an opinion if youve SEEN the horrors first hand is blatantly ridiculous.

And anyways, there are ways of expressing things without getting all steamed up.

[stonedape]

I'm fine with doves like Ben or hawks like Steve. What I don't care for is chickenhawks.

[skkc16]

Chels has been twisting what ben said on every thread don't listen to her she is full of ****e now I don't know the exact words but I think what ben said was that the war cud have been avoided, something to do with foreign policies ge didn't support hitler at all...he also didn't say Britain shouldn't have fought against the Germans but that maybe we shouldn't want to get involved in wars that aren't ours in the first place

[erichardse10]

Well if Ben said that about Hitler, then no wonder Steve went mad. However I am still going to reserve judgement till I see tonight's show!.

[BJ]

Anyone who says Hitler should have been left be and Britain shouldn't have got involved in the war is a complete ****ing prick IMO. I can't believe he said that, no wonder Steve jumped down his throat!

I like Ben but if that's what he said then Steve was right

[terryrow]

i am sorry that steve has lost his legs, but if you join the army there is a good chance you will face some danger.
every bb year, when a housemate comes in with a disability they are made automatic favourites, e.g. mikey, pete bennett, why? is there some guilt trip that everone goes on. 'cant nominate him the public will hate me, cant vote for him he has no legs, this is not that kind of competition. stephen hawking would win every year.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

Ben speaks and makes a lot of sense that the other HMs can't and fail to understand. Steve's only form of defence is to say "men died for your freedom." what a load of twaddle. Steve is now reverting to the bullying character I always thought he might be.

[CaudleHalbard]

Steve is typical cannon fodder, I'm afraid. Not too much between the ears!

And like the rest of them he has no real idea of why wars and counter-insurgency operations (mostly utterly pointless) are carried out.Those who want to rule the world rely on the likes of Steve to unthinkingly carry out orders.

Ben would never fit in to the armed forces! :D

[Angus]

I believe its the other way round.. Ben should remove his head from his azz and stop talking sh*t .. all he cares about is his own opinion he has no time for anyone elses..

At least he has an opinion based on actual knowledge, not knee jerk reactions, and what's more he has the courtesy to listen to others' viewpoints (no matter how ridiculous) without shouting them down. He is also articulate and able to string a sentence together without the need to use the word ***** as a conjunction.

[Mystic Mock]

steve can just piss off.

[-Sue-]

At least he has an opinion based on actual knowledge, not knee jerk reactions, and what's more he has the courtesy to listen to others' viewpoints (no matter how ridiculous) without shouting them down. He is also articulate and able to string a sentence together without the need to use the word ***** as a conjunction.

thats silly of course the HMs listen...if they did not listen they wouldn't reply! silly..:pat:

Nathan wasn't shouting at Ben .. Ben was doing his usual avoidance of answering a simple question with one of his many get out of jail free cards.. or yet another boring speech.. thus avoiding the decency of replying to nathan's question so Nathan was forced to ask him over and over I dont know if you have ever spoken to someone so wrapped up in nothing but their own opinions they are deaf to the world & people around them... very frustrating to have a 2 sided discussion with..

[James]

I've deleted some posts in this thread. Keep to the topic and don't insult other posters for their opinion. Also no over-the-top criticism of housemates.

[Angus]

thats silly of course the HMs listen...if they did not listen they wouldn't reply! silly..:pat:

Nathan wasn't shouting at Ben .. Ben was doing his usual avoidance of answering a simple question with one of his many get out of jail free cards.. or yet another boring speech.. thus avoiding the decency of replying to nathan's question so Nathan was forced to ask him over and over I dont know if you have ever spoken to someone so wrapped up in nothing but their own opinions they are deaf to the world & people around them... very frustrating to have a 2 sided discussion with..

Nathan is a thick prat and Ben has to try and talk to him in words of one syllable in order that he can understand what the subject under debate is, and still Nathan and the other thick prats only hear what they want to hear and harangue Ben about unrelated and often erroneous issues. They don't "reply" to anything, they react, there's a difference.:pat:

Furthermore, I am only too aware of the frustration of trying to debate with someone who is too wrapped up in their own opinion - after all I am engaging in this discussion with you:rolleyes:

[GiRTh]

You're arguing semantics claiming Steve wasn't a war hero cuz he was injured in NI.
It does not matter if you agree or disagree with British occupancy in regions around the world. Steve was injured serving his country and for that alone he deserves respect.

[GiRTh]

Nathan is a thick prat So is Ben?

[WOMBAI]

Steve is typical cannon fodder, I'm afraid. Not too much between the ears!

And like the rest of them he has no real idea of why wars and counter-insurgency operations (mostly utterly pointless) are carried out.Those who want to rule the world rely on the likes of Steve to unthinkingly carry out orders.

Ben would never fit in to the armed forces! :D

What a load of tosh - that just contributes in perpetuating stereotypes! People like you should thank God there are men and women who are prepared to unquestionably follow orders, and risk their necks in the process, as you probably wouldn't even be here, nevermind on the net stating your opinions - it is thanks to men like Steve you have such freedoms. Anyone referring to such men as 'cannon fodder' - whether it be higer ranking military personnel, politicians or members of the public - should be ashamed of themselves - talk about a lack of appreciation, and therefore understanding of what they do - and how we all benefit from that.

How the hell would you know if Steve, or any other soldier, understands why wars etc are carried out - how patronising. Like any other sector of society - some are brighter than others - and what they certainly all do have is guts and the ability to commit to a very demanding job, physically and psychologically - to the benefit of society in general - which happens to be us! Questioning orders doesn't make someone intelligent, to do so could be down to cowardice or belligerence. On the other hand - following orders and respecting the judgement of senior staff giving those orders is crucial in war situations otherwise the army simply couldn't function and many more lives would be lost. Those joining the forces usually have the intelligence to understand that!

And, much as I quite like ben, no - he would not fit in - as he is not a team player and is far too lazy!

[WOMBAI]

You're arguing semantics claiming Steve wasn't a war hero cuz he was injured in NI.
It does not matter if you agree or disagree with British occupancy in regions around the world. Steve was injured serving his country and for that alone he deserves respect.

Well said!

[Lex]

Ben is entitled to his opinion - Steve hasn't got a leg to stand on.

:joker: Naughty! :joker:

[MTVN]

this is first time I heard Steve talk bollocks.

most of the people who fight in wars have no ********* idea why they are there fighting in the first place, just fight for the flag cos their superior orders them to

Yeah, I think thats true in Steve's case. I remember someone (think it was Ife?) asking him why British troops were targeted in N.Ireland and he said "basically, they dont like us intefering" and if thats the extent of his knowledge of why the IRA were fighting then he doesnt seem to understand the conflict very much

[MTVN]

What a load of tosh - that just contributes in perpetuating stereotypes! People like you should thank God there are men and women who are prepared to unquestionably follow orders, and risk their necks in the process, as you probably wouldn't even be here, nevermind on the net stating your opinions - it is thanks to men like Steve you have such freedoms. Anyone referring to such men as 'cannon fodder' - whether it be higer ranking military personnel, politicians or members of the public - should be ashamed of themselves - talk about a lack of appreciation, and therefore understanding of what they do - and how we all benefit from that.

How the hell would you know if Steve, or any other soldier, understands why wars etc are carried out - how patronising. Like any other sector of society - some are brighter than others - and what they certainly all do have is guts and the ability to commit to a very demanding job, physically and psychologically - to the benefit of society in general - which happens to be us! Questioning orders doesn't make someone intelligent, to do so could be down to cowardice or belligerence. On the other hand - following orders and respecting the judgement of senior staff giving those orders is crucial in war situations otherwise the army simply couldn't function and many more lives would be lost. Those joining the forces usually have the intelligence to understand that!

And, much as I quite like ben, no - he would not fit in - as he is not a team player and is far too lazy!

I dont really see what Steve did to achieve any freedoms at all

[ange7]

Well Ben can still have an opinion ffs. To say you can only have an opinion if youve SEEN the horrors first hand is blatantly ridiculous.

And anyways, there are ways of expressing things without getting all steamed up.
if Ben said " Hitler should have been left and Britain shouldn't have got involved in the war" then we're all entitled to our opinion. Which is Ben is a right wing fascist twat who would have let Hitler kill even more than the 6 million Jew and 2 million handicapped,gays,slaves,gypsys and communists that he murdered.
Wake up Zippy ffs.

[setanta]

I dont really see what Steve did to achieve any freedoms at all

Note the use of the word "like" in that instance.

[MTVN]

if Ben said " Hitler should have been left and Britain shouldn't have got involved in the war" then we're all entitled to our opinion. Which is Ben is a right wing fascist twat who would have let Hitler kill even more than the 6 million Jew and 2 million handicapped,gays,slaves,gypsys and communists that he murdered.
Wake up Zippy ffs.

Was he saying Britain should have avoided entering the war, or was he saying the war should have been avoided altogether? Because if its the latter, then the Holocaust only came about because of the chaos of the Nazi regime during wartime

[WOMBAI]

I dont really see what Steve did to achieve any freedoms at all

I am talking about the bigger picture - that Steve was a part of! The ultimate task of the forces is to protect its country and its citizens, if necessary - and every soldier commits to that when they sign up, including Steve!

[ange7]

Was he saying Britain should have avoided entering the war, or was he saying the war should have been avoided altogether? Because if its the latter, then the Holocaust only came about because of the chaos of the Nazi regime during wartime
He seems to have said Britain should have not entered the war. (According to reports) Why would he say everyone ought have avoided a war... that's obvious.
PS war or no war ... concentration camps were up and running as early as 1933 .... war started 1939, so either way not really relevant. Hitler had it on his mind to kill millions prior to the starting and those death were not a "result" of WW2.
Might be best to give Ben the benefit of the doubt on this one because if he actually said this he ought to be not only chucked from BB but also from the UK.

[MTVN]

I am talking about the bigger picture - that Steve was a part of! The ultimate task of the forces is to protect its country and its citizens, if necessary - and every soldier commits to that when they sign up, including Steve!

But some conflicts are more important & justified than others. The conflict in N.Ireland wasnt protecting the country, I dont think so anyway. I dont think he was fighting for freedom there at all, on the contrary, I think we have no right to occupy Northern Ireland.

In fact most recent wars; in Iraq, N.Ireland, the Falklands, maybe even Afghanistan werent really protecting Britain, and werent really beneficial to us as a country

[MTVN]

He seems to have said Britain should have not entered the war. (According to reports) Why would he say everyone ought have avoided a war... that's obvious.
PS war or no war ... concentration camps were up and running as early as 1933 .... war started 1939, so either way not really relevant. Hitler had it on his mind to kill millions prior to the starting and those death were not a "result" of WW2.
Might be best to give Ben the benefit of the doubt on this one because if he actually said this he ought to be not only chucked from BB but also from the UK.

It's not obvious, he may have been saying that Britain and France could have avoided having to declare war on Germany, and that it wasnt neccesarily the correct thing to do

And concentration camps existed yes, but they were really forced labour camps, they were not converted into extermination camps until the Wansee conference of 1942, and that was only after other options had been considered (deporting Jews to Madagascar for instance, or forcing them to work in war industries). It came about because of the war as the situation of the Jews became increasingly problematic for the Nazis at this time, having gained 3 million Jews from the invasion of Poland and 3 million from the invasion of Russia. They had no idea what to do with the Jews so the Holocaust was a way out of a blind alley for them. Thats why I say it came about as a result of war

But anyway, this is not a discussion on the Holocaust, I just dont think Ben should be portrayed as being an advocate of ignoring genocide

[WOMBAI]

But some conflicts are more important & justified than others. The conflict in N.Ireland wasnt protecting the country, I dont think so anyway. I dont think he was fighting for freedom there at all, on the contrary, I think we have no right to occupy Northern Ireland.

In fact most recent wars; in Iraq, N.Ireland, the Falklands, maybe even Afghanistan werent really protecting Britain, and werent really beneficial to us as a country

You are missing the point - soldiers don't get to cherry-pick where they go - they follow orders. And if someone had attacked our country whilst Steve was a soldier - he would have been fighting to protect us! My comments were about what they sign up to do - what they are prepared to do - even if they never get to do it. It is the intention that counts - I did say where would we be without men and women who were prepared to do that!

And besides - his injuries were inflicted whilst he was doing his job - in the name of his country - so pretty much the same thing as far as I am concerned. Ireland was a scary place to be for a soldier back then - he was a brave man just like the rest!

[Just Do It]

He's entitled to his opinion. People who can't handle debate just shout and abuse. Steve's a ****ing moron.

[MTVN]

You are missing the point - soldiers don't get to cherry-pick where they go - they follow orders. And if someone had attacked our country whilst Steve was a soldier - he would have been fighting to protect us! My comments were about what they sign up to do - what they are prepared to do - even if they never get to do it. It is the intention that counts - I did say where would we be without men and women who were prepared to do that!

And besides - his injuries were inflicted whilst he was doing his job - in the name of his country - so pretty much the same thing as far as I am concerned. Ireland was a scary place to be for a soldier back then - he was a brave man just like the rest!

Ok, I see where you're coming from now

[joeysteele]

Steve has shown he is a bigot with a very narrow train of thought and an even wierder idea of democracy,totally out of order and wrong, Ben was 100% right and Steve presents a very wprrying thought of what soldiers thinking is if more soldiers think as wrong as he clearly does, get him out.

[CaudleHalbard]

We have to look beyond the metal legs and realise that this is NOT a war hero.

He got his injuries from being at the wrong place at the wrong time during action against people who were predominantly UK citizens.

Many people drift into the armed forces because they have difficulty getting jobs anywhere else. It's a fact.

[boomoo]

I don't have a clue how I can give you proof, I dare say plenty of people heard it. I am not a Steve hater, I don't hate anybody in real life let alone some reality show I watch for entertainment.
I don't particularly like Steve, he is far too boorish for me, but I don't stoop to telling fibs.

You do not need to give proof it was advertised last night as being part of todays highlights.

Every time Ben goes up the ratings BB shows him in a row.

[boomoo]

But some conflicts are more important & justified than others. The conflict in N.Ireland wasnt protecting the country, I dont think so anyway. I dont think he was fighting for freedom there at all, on the contrary, I think we have no right to occupy Northern Ireland.

In fact most recent wars; in Iraq, N.Ireland, the Falklands, maybe even Afghanistan werent really protecting Britain, and werent really beneficial to us as a country

The British army entered Northern ireland to protect the Catholics from Protestant acts of aggression. At first they were greeted with open arms. Then it all went wrong.
I have never been in the army like Steve but I do feel entitled to an opinion.
War rarely ever achieves anything other than a massive death toll.
I will repeat what a great warrior said, the Duke of Wellington after Waterloo.
There is only one thing worse than winning a war and that was losing.

[boomoo]

Was he saying Britain should have avoided entering the war, or was he saying the war should have been avoided altogether? Because if its the latter, then the Holocaust only came about because of the chaos of the Nazi regime during wartime

Well he may be a pacifist which is not a hanging offence. Even though they were given white feathers during the war.

A very large portion of this population say we should not be in Afghanistan and we should never have gone into Iraq.
The second world war was more complicated which is why some MPs were accused of appeasement.

Who would ever have thought such a topic would be aired on BB forums

[MTVN]

The British army entered Northern ireland to protect the Catholics from Protestant acts of aggression. At first they were greeted with open arms. Then it all went wrong.
I have never been in the army like Steve but I do feel entitled to an opinion.
War rarely ever achieves anything other than a massive death toll.
I will repeat what a great warrior said, the Duke of Wellington after Waterloo.
There is only one thing worse than winning a war and that was losing.

Well sort of yes, they were originally sent in as a peacekeeping force. The IRA originally had little support, and as you mentioned it all went wrong, after Bloody Sunday. Not sure how that is relevant?

[WOMBAI]

Steve has shown he is a bigot with a very narrow train of thought and an even wierder idea of democracy,totally out of order and wrong, Ben was 100% right and Steve presents a very wprrying thought of what soldiers thinking is if more soldiers think as wrong as he clearly does, get him out.

:sleep:

[WOMBAI]

We have to look beyond the metal legs and realise that this is NOT a war hero.

He got his injuries from being at the wrong place at the wrong time during action against people who were predominantly UK citizens.

Many people drift into the armed forces because they have difficulty getting jobs anywhere else. It's a fact.

He acquired those injuries whilst doing a dangerous job in a dangerous place for soldiers at that time! Sounds like some have specific 'issues' with our soldiers! Doesn't make them any less heros for doing a dangerous job!

[Livia]

Yeah, I think thats true in Steve's case. I remember someone (think it was Ife?) asking him why British troops were targeted in N.Ireland and he said "basically, they dont like us intefering" and if thats the extent of his knowledge of why the IRA were fighting then he doesnt seem to understand the conflict very much

He probably didn't want to fry her three healthy braincells with too much information.

[StGeorge]

But some conflicts are more important & justified than others. The conflict in N.Ireland wasnt protecting the country, I dont think so anyway. I dont think he was fighting for freedom there at all, on the contrary, I think we have no right to occupy Northern Ireland.

In fact most recent wars; in Iraq, N.Ireland, the Falklands, maybe even Afghanistan werent really protecting Britain, and werent really beneficial to us as a country

Instead of coming on a reality show website forum and talking utter rubbish, I think you should use your time more and research why and what all those conflicts were about, how they started, why they started, and when they started.

The recent NI conflict may of started in the 70s when the troops went in to protect the catholics, but the underlying fued has been going on long before any of us were even born. We dont occupy NI....it was divided by agreement in 1921. I dont agree with the IRA, but i also dont agree with the way Ireland was divided. It was a ballsup and inevitable that conflict would rise. It's happened in Germany, Vietnam, and is happening now in Korea. Division causes problems if certain peoples are caught or trapped on the wrong side.
But personally i think the modern Irish on both sides have had enough and deserve to be left to work it out together without interferance from the UK mainland and a poxy BB forum.

Falklands?? Jeez get an eucation for christs sake. Those islanders ARE BLOODY BRITISH.

Learn about the policies of Al Quaeda before you even think to question why we are in Afghan.

[Livia]

Instead of coming on a reality show website forum and talking utter rubbish, I think you should use your time more and research why and what all those conflicts were about, how they started, why they started, and when they started.... etc. etc. etc.



Hey St. G.

I'm not sure they allow people on this thread who know what they're taking about. Nice to see something sensible.

[StGeorge]

It's not obvious, he may have been saying that Britain and France could have avoided having to declare war on Germany, and that it wasnt neccesarily the correct thing to do

And concentration camps existed yes, but they were really forced labour camps, they were not converted into extermination camps until the Wansee conference of 1942, and that was only after other options had been considered (deporting Jews to Madagascar for instance, or forcing them to work in war industries). It came about because of the war as the situation of the Jews became increasingly problematic for the Nazis at this time, having gained 3 million Jews from the invasion of Poland and 3 million from the invasion of Russia. They had no idea what to do with the Jews so the Holocaust was a way out of a blind alley for them. Thats why I say it came about as a result of war

But anyway, this is not a discussion on the Holocaust, I just dont think Ben should be portrayed as being an advocate of ignoring genocide

It might not be a discusion on the Holocaust, but when you make statements that cloud the truth then you leave us no choice but to respond, as there are some out there who may actually believe this view.
Here is a quote from wiki:
Prior to the beginning of World War II, during a speech given on January 30, 1939 (the six year anniversary of his accession to power), Hitler foretold the coming Holocaust of European Jewry when he said:

"Today I will once more be a prophet: If the international Jewish financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, then the result will not be the Bolshevization of the earth, and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe!"

You may also want to look up the pogrom against German Jews on Kristallnacht 10th November 1938. Prior to the outbreak of WW2.

[StGeorge]

Hey St. G.

I'm not sure they allow people on this thread who know what they're taking about. Nice to see something sensible.

Thanks Livia. When i had just left school and about to sign up, the Falklands happened....as i was underage, my parents refused to let me join so i was well peeved....i had never heard of the Falklands and thought "WTF has that got to do with us" Didnt have the internet then, but it didnt take long to educate myself to the truth. I made a point of doing just that to all these conflicts prior to spouting off about it.
I was dumb....but i learned. I just wish others would do the same as there are young kids who's minds get fogged up with inaccurate data.

[bansheewails]

I haven't seen enough of the arguement between Ben and Steve to comment on what either said. I will have to wait until the high lights and hope they show the whole thing and not just selected pieces. I won't hold my breath tho. :(

[StGeorge]

I haven't seen enough of the arguement between Ben and Steve to comment on what either said. I will have to wait until the high lights and hope they show the whole thing and not just selected pieces. I won't hold my breath tho. :(

They showed a preview clip on last nights HLs so it will be on. I hope they dont edit it too much.
By all accounts Ben was just questioning the policies involved prior to entering the war and maybe there could of been other ways. Although i disagree with him, i think Steves suggestion(alledged) that only soldiers and politicians can comment on wars, is so so wrong.

[Livia]

Thanks Livia. When i had just left school and about to sign up, the Falklands happened....

I'd only heard of the Falklands because I knew someone who's brother served there briefly in the Royal Marines. I remember someone saying they thought the Falklands were off Scotland! Anyhoo... it's hard to keep on topic when there is so much inaccuracy written so carelessly.

[bansheewails]

They showed a preview clip on last nights HLs so it will be on. I hope they dont edit it too much.
By all accounts Ben was just questioning the policies involved prior to entering the war and maybe there could of been other ways. Although i disagree with him, i think Steves suggestion(alledged) that only soldiers and politicians can comment on wars, is so so wrong.

I can see were Steve is coming from, as soldiers are trained to obey without questioning. Ben casing doubts on his or other army orders could cause Steve upset as he has been injured doing something that HE sees as the right thing. Of course that would be upseting to him, but Ben should have his opinion, even if I sometimes think that he should express himself in a more tactful way. :D , or even think before opening his giant mouth and jumping in with both feet! :laugh:

[bigbutchman]

Ben is gay, gay is against god, god created adam and eve, not adam and steve

[StGeorge]

I can see were Steve is coming from, as soldiers are trained to obey without questioning. Ben casing doubts on his or other army orders could cause Steve upset as he has been injured doing something that HE sees as the right thing. Of course that would be upseting to him, but Ben should have his opinion, even if I sometimes think that he should express himself in a more tactful way. :D , or even think before opening his giant mouth and jumping in with both feet! :laugh:

Ben tactful????

I think it's his foot-in-mouth moments that actually make him funny at times. But he is a pompus twat.

[bansheewails]

Ben tactful????

I think it's his foot-in-mouth moments that actually make him funny at times. But he is a pompus twat.

I know, Ben and Tact wouldn't usually be mentioned in the same sentence! But as Ben would say , one can hope! :hugesmile:

[Livia]

I can't help liking Ben. For an reasonably educated man he's such a silly ar5e.