His belief

[pixee]

I think Caoimhe is going on a bit about this but she isn't getting a clear answer.

Although i think she has got a clear answer just clouded in what dave said.

My understanding is that Dave believes in "scripture" and that his reading of it is that homosexuality is wrong but he chooses to believe in a loving god who forgives and even if he/she/it (lol) thinks it is wrong the sheer love they have brings a mercy and forgiveness.

I think this is roughly what he believes. Not sure if anyone cares but it is the issue of the day so lol.

[Dannyboii]

Dave is a legend.

[Stacey.]

Caoimhe was only asking a question..

[pixee]

Caoimhe was only asking a question..

This isn't an anti either of them thread just an attempt to summarise his view for anyone remotely interested lol.

[setanta]

Caoimhe was only asking a question..

Again, and again and again. She should let it go. It's dull at this stage.

[bansheewails]

I can see where she is coming from. But she is pushing it. But for some kind of minister Dave doesn't explain himself very well. Dave is also willing to answer questions from Mario, wwho just accepts his answers and doesn't push him on it, but I think he is afraid to answer Caoimhe's properly because she pushes the issue further than he is willing to answer.

[Zippy]

I don't like Dave or his views.

But she has no right to harass him over his views. Why now after 4 weeks? Just trying to get camera attention now she isnt behind Shabby.

And he doesn't have to justify himself to her anyway! Back off bitch.

[pixee]

Just close the thread this isn't what i intended.

[bansheewails]

Just close the thread this isn't what i intended.

Sorry did I offend you? I didn't mean to, I can see both sides of this and thought I demonstrated this in my reply. I hope I didn't ruin your thread. :bawling:

[Zippy]

Just close the thread this isn't what i intended.

Threads take on their own life. You can't control how they pan out. Express your point more clearly if you want specific answers.

[BBfan46]

Christianity is complex, it's one's individual interpretation of the Bible's teachings. I've found a way to see God's support of homosexuality through the Bible.

[pixee]

Sorry did I offend you? I didn't mean to, I can see both sides of this and thought I demonstrated this in my reply. I hope I didn't ruin your thread. :bawling:

No it is okay haha I wasn't clear enough. Wasn't a point about Dave not answering or Caoimhe asking just a summary of what i think Dave believes as this was a big issue when he first made his statement about gay marriage near the start.

Zippy you don't like her i think we understand.

[bansheewails]

No it is okay haha I wasn't clear enough. Wasn't a point about Dave not answering or Caoimhe asking just a summary of what i think Dave believes as this was a big issue when he first made his statement about gay marriage near the start.

Zippy you don't like her i think we understand.

I do think that Dave does believe in those things. He just is not very clear about explaining them.

Caoimhe has come from a very religious back ground, where homosexuality condems you to 'hell' nice person or not.

I think between her lack of understanding other religious beliefs and Dave not explaining clearly has lead to this falling out.

[oddballmisfitsFTW]

Dave believes homosexual lifestyle is wrong in principle. However he believes in Jesus and loving everyone. He believes the second part a lot more strongly than the first.

Spin it in its head for a change. A homosexual might believe Christian lifestyle is wrong. Would they believe in loving all Christians despite not approving of their lifestyle and beliefs?

[pixee]

Dave believes homosexual lifestyle is wrong in principle. However he believes in Jesus and loving everyone. He believes the second part a lot more strongly than the first.

Spin it in its head for a change. A homosexual might believe Christian lifestyle is wrong. Would they believe in loving all Christians despite not approving of their lifestyle and beliefs?

Probably not a fair point. But people don't go to war over homosexuality, also in theory homosexuals are a minority group christians aren't, well maybe they are now actually.

But a fair point.

[pixee]

I do think that Dave does believe in those things. He just is not very clear about explaining them.

Caoimhe has come from a very religious back ground, where homosexuality condems you to 'hell' nice person or not.

I think between her lack of understanding other religious beliefs and Dave not explaining clearly has lead to this falling out.

Agreed

[chuff me dizzy]

On lf just now after her had been moaning to Ben about Keeva bugging him about religion ,keeva walked and Dave went straight into Jesus lover mode ,trouble causer

[eviled2010]

I think Dave is using the old "Love the sinner, hate the sin" defense,
Bit if a cop out if you ask me.

[BB_Eye]

Christianity is complex, it's one's individual interpretation of the Bible's teachings. I've found a way to see God's support of homosexuality through the Bible.

Too right... just look at the sort of stuff that got painted for the Catholic church in Italy. :D

[eviled2010]

I don't think Dave has the courage of his convictions.
I think it is pretty obvious he is dead against alternative lifestyles but knows how unpopular he would be if he came right out and said it.
He is actually letting "his side" down.

[smudgie]

He has a point when he says he would/could not marry gay people. I don't think he is bona fida enough to marry anyone as he is the head of his own "church", I could well be wrong though so don't shoot me if I am.

[BB_Eye]

Just as long as Dave isn't the sort of twat who sends complaints to the board of Heinz for their "sick, debauched" mayonnaise advert, I have no problem with him.

[WOMBAI]

I can see where she is coming from. But she is pushing it. But for some kind of minister Dave doesn't explain himself very well. Dave is also willing to answer questions from Mario, wwho just accepts his answers and doesn't push him on it, but I think he is afraid to answer Caoimhe's properly because she pushes the issue further than he is willing to answer.

It's because he knows Keeva is spoiling for a fight - and he isn't prepared to play her game! He is above behaving like that!

[fruit_cake]

Caoimhe has caught dave out and he doesn't like it so he calls her negative

[WOMBAI]

Caoimhe has caught dave out and he doesn't like it so he calls her negative

Rubbish - she doesn't like Dave and is just trying to cause an argument - he is rising above it and not giving her what she wants!

[Lex]

I am probably the least religious person on the planet!.....And am only a Dave fan intermitantly!....'I'm off him just now'....But I thought that he handled 'the Vipers' latest attempt to poison his popularity , by attacking his weak point....with great aplomb!!

Hope that he noticed that it was that 'sly-public-fooling Josie' that instigated and tried to prolong this 'failed attack!'!

She's Good!!.....Quaver was'nt even wearing a robot suit!....But she still managed to wind her up....and stand back to admire her handywork!!

[boomoo]

I do think that Dave does believe in those things. He just is not very clear about explaining them.

Caoimhe has come from a very religious back ground, where homosexuality condems you to 'hell' nice person or not.

I think between her lack of understanding other religious beliefs and Dave not explaining clearly has lead to this falling out.


Caoimhe was saying religion should not be in schools. From her background she knows more about that than Dave. If you live in a land where people have been killing people in the name of religion you can see why she does not want to listen to people preaching.
Of course those who kill in the name of their religion are not listening to 'Thou shalt not kill'.

[boomoo]

Agreed

All this came about because of Ife harping on for four weeks about Dave's attitude to gay 'marriage'. She knew that it would turn the public against him.

Dave should have said there is no such thing as 'gay marriage'.

There is a civil partnership now allowed under the law for same sex people. It is not a marriage and the law does not say it is.
The law was changed to allow two people of the same sex partnership to have the rights of a male and female marriage ie passing on the home to the partner etc
Before this change they had no rights even when they had lived together for 20+ years

[mazzz]

It's because he knows Keeva is spoiling for a fight - and he isn't prepared to play her game! He is above behaving like that!

Love or hate Caoimh, let's not get carried away about whether she had an agenda when attempting to have these chats with Dave. He had no problem talking about his beliefs initially, but because he knows that Caoimh has a brain, he is avoiding answering her at all costs. He doesn't want to be honest about his views because he does not want the viewer to really see what he is about. Why won't he just have a conversation with her and be done? Then he runs to others saying that she is bringing the house down. Why would a chat or debate about religion do that? There is much more to Dave then meets the eye.

[Livia]

I found Caoimhe to be very confrontational. She didn't want a discussion, she wanted an argument. She wanted Dave to say what she believes that he believes so she could tell him how wrong he is. I believe the OP got Dave's stance perfectly right. I don't personally believe the same thing, but I'm happy for him to believe it.

[JustSkipIt]

I think Dave is using the old "Love the sinner, hate the sin" defense,
Bit if a cop out if you ask me.

Not sure why this would be a cop out - makes sense to me.

Besides, as far as I can tell, there is nothing in the Christian faith that condems same-sex relationships, just sodomy. Not the same thing.

[WOMBAI]

Love or hate Caoimh, let's not get carried away about whether she had an agenda when attempting to have these chats with Dave. He had no problem talking about his beliefs initially, but because he knows that Caoimh has a brain, he is avoiding answering her at all costs. He doesn't want to be honest about his views because he does not want the viewer to really see what he is about. Why won't he just have a conversation with her and be done? Then he runs to others saying that she is bringing the house down. Why would a chat or debate about religion do that? There is much more to Dave then meets the eye.

Because she doesn't want a conversation - she wants an argument! She wants to belittle his beliefs and attempt to paint him in a bad light! She is so transparent! He knows exactly what she is up to - and isn't playing - simple!

[Zippy]

Because she doesn't want a conversation - she wants an argument! She wants to belittle his beliefs and attempt to paint him in a bad light! She is so transparent! He knows exactly what she is up to - and isn't playing - simple!

Yes. Now she's decided to stay she is going all out for airtime.

She was happy to ride Shabbys wave for 4 weeks. Now she has to create her own drama.

[LiquidGold]

Caoimhe was only asking a question..

yeah in her nasty bitchy cow bag way!!!!!! and she wouldnt let it rest! untill eventually she got bored and said ok lets agree to disagree :sleep:

[Peter Plunker]

Dave was always going to be a focal point for the HM's and the viewing publics problems/misunderstandings with Christianity. Dave knew that before he went in. He doesn't however respond to cynicism. He talks to Ben and Mario about stuff because they are genuine in their questioning even if they still disagree. Caoimhe already knows the answers to the questions she's asking, she's just trying to be controversial

[stonedape]

Dave was always going to be a focal point for the HM's and the viewing publics problems/misunderstandings with Christianity. Dave knew that before he went in. He doesn't however respond to cynicism. He talks to Ben and Mario about stuff because they are genuine in their questioning even if they still disagree. Caoimhe already knows the answers to the questions she's asking, she's just trying to be controversial

I understand Christianity fully. I'm American, and I was once evangelical/"born again". Dave is an utter hypocrite, but no one is knowledgeable enough on the subject to properly question him.

How many verses against homosexuality? At most, 7. Realistically, about 4. How many verses about women not talking/cutting their hair? More than double. How many verses about not eating pork/shellfish? More than triple.

Any Christian that has a HUGE PROBLEM with homosexual marriage is cherry-picking the Bible based on the society of their time, and their view has nearly nothing to do with their holy book. Not that I fully blame Dave, I doubt he's even read the Old Testament. And at least he's (mostly) cherry-picking the nice bits.

[fingers]

Love or hate Caoimh, let's not get carried away about whether she had an agenda when attempting to have these chats with Dave. He had no problem talking about his beliefs initially, but because he knows that Caoimh has a brain, he is avoiding answering her at all costs. He doesn't want to be honest about his views because he does not want the viewer to really see what he is about. Why won't he just have a conversation with her and be done? Then he runs to others saying that she is bringing the house down. Why would a chat or debate about religion do that? There is much more to Dave then meets the eye.

You should have a look at St. Dave in full religious fervour mode in the "Sloshfest" vids or just check out the thread 'Merry Monk'

Link for WOMBAI! lol

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145947

[WOMBAI]

You should have a look at St. Dave in full religious fervour mode in the "Sloshfest" vids or just check out the thread 'Merry Monk'

:sleep:

[JEJ]

I agree with what Wombai has said.

I'm actually starting to like Dave now.

[WOMBAI]

You should have a look at St. Dave in full religious fervour mode in the "Sloshfest" vids or just check out the thread 'Merry Monk'

Link for WOMBAI! lol

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145947

ffs - I have seen them - so what! I like hm Dave - and that is how I judge him!

[Peter Plunker]

I understand Christianity fully. I'm American, and I was once evangelical/"born again"

Dave isn't being hypocritical. You're showing an astute lack of understanding of the new testament if you are brining mosaic law into the equation.

[fingers]

ffs - I have seen them - so what! I like hm Dave - and that is how I judge him!

There are none so blind........ LOL!:dance:

[WOMBAI]

There are none so blind........ LOL!:dance:

No - I just don't pre-judge people's religious belief's or motives for those 'beliefs' without knowing more about them! Those videos prove nothing! As a hm - he is interesting and funny and doesn't bitch and attention-seek like most of the others - he gets my vote!

[fingers]

Dave isn't being hypocritical. You're showing an astute lack of understanding of the new testament if you are brining mosaic law into the equation.

Do explain this "MOSAIC" law.

That's Old Testament isn't it, not something the New Ecstatics believe in.

[Peter Plunker]

Do explain this "MOSAIC" law.

That's Old Testament isn't it, not something the New Ecstatics believe in.

The Mosaic law is the old testament law as given to Moses. To get an understanding of how the law in the OT was fulfilled read the book of Hebrews and Romans, try reading 'The Message' version, it's written in modern language that is much easier to understand.

[Peter Plunker]

PS, The new Ecstatics is just the name of Dave's ministry, all ministires have a name for many reasons, it's not a cult or a religion, it's just a name. Dave has close relationships and is accountable to a wide range of people and ministers from a very wide range of Christian churches both denominational and non-denominational.

I really don't want to seem like some fanatical weirdo cult follower. Dave is my friend, it's hard to see lies written about one of your best mates and not respond, even if it's just to clarify some stuff. Feel free to dislike Dave but be make sure you're being truthful when you dislike him.

[karezza]

Homosexuality is anti-Christian & a violation of natural law - Josie is a evil stirrer.

[WOMBAI]

Homosexuality is anti-Christian & a violation of natural law - Josie is a evil stirrer.

Sounds to me as if Josie is just repeating what she thinks young voters want to hear - being seen to say the 'right' thing! Still not sure about her!

[monx]

I do not dislike Dave I find him quite pleasant as a housemate and he has been a great comfort to other housemates when they have been having a bad time.

I do get nervous however when anyone asks him about his faith because you can see he is conflicted on the one hand he wants to spout the scripture as confirmation of his beliefs but at the same time he is aware that some of these beliefs are not popular.

I do think that Keeva was being vexatious and was hoping for a great religious debate where she could give her conflicting view on every point he made, and his response was at least adult and didnt inflame the situation. She did come across ignorant to the fact that he was a born again Christian and not Roman Catholic.

That being said, I do think if you are going to come onto a reality show like Big Brother and announce that you are a practicing born again Christian, read scripture daily and "get drunk on God's love" then you will have to expect some degree of interest and may have to explain some of the things you believe in, and explaining doesnt mean justyfying.

He has every right to worship any way he wants but if he is going to "prophetise" his particular faith he needs to be comfortable answering difficult questions about it. It may be that Ife is a Zoastran or Corrin is a Wicca white witch but because they are not discussing it and making it an issue no one is challenging them about it.

[calyman]

I can see where she is coming from. But she is pushing it. But for some kind of minister Dave doesn't explain himself very well. Dave is also willing to answer questions from Mario, wwho just accepts his answers and doesn't push him on it, but I think he is afraid to answer Caoimhe's properly because she pushes the issue further than he is willing to answer.

Exactly, when it gets to difficult for him, he either walks away or is unable to go into detail, he's just a fake; using his christianity as a crutch.

[calyman]

All this came about because of Ife harping on for four weeks about Dave's attitude to gay 'marriage'. She knew that it would turn the public against him.

Dave should have said there is no such thing as 'gay marriage'.

There is a civil partnership now allowed under the law for same sex people. It is not a marriage and the law does not say it is.
The law was changed to allow two people of the same sex partnership to have the rights of a male and female marriage ie passing on the home to the partner etc
Before this change they had no rights even when they had lived together for 20+ years

I'm so fed up with pedants always trying to distinguish Marriage from Civil Partnership. As far as the Government is concerned, they are exactly the same. It is only the religious homophobes pressurising Government that succeeded in having the Gay marriage, termed "civil partnership".

The clue is in the word "marriage", below is an average defintion of what the word means.

"Marriage is a social union or legal contract between individuals that creates kinship. It is an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged in a variety of ways, depending on the culture or subculture in which it is found. Such a union may also be called matrimony, while the ceremony that marks its beginning is usually called a wedding."

You will note that this also applies to "civil partnership", ergo, unless you are a homophobe, both terms mean exactly the same thing.