'If you want to get rich, you start a religion'...

[vesavius]

...is a quote that came to mind (from Hubbard, founder of the Scientology cult) when I heard Dave and Ben sn1ggering about how he "just gets drunk and gets paid for it" after being questioned by Keeley about how he makes a living.

I don't know... it just didnt sit right after hearing him talk about money other times in the house as well... Just seems like it's on his mind.



I don't buy this calm smiling 'love for all men' Dave at all tbh and I am suspecting more and more that his motives arnt pure and that his grubby cult arnt what they present themselves to be...

Another Hubbard quote..

"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them."

[fingers]

...is a quote that came to mind (from Hubbard, founder of the Scientology cult) when I heard Dave and Ben sn1ggering about how he "just gets drunk and gets paid for it" after being questioned by Keeley about how he makes a living.

I don't know... it just didnt sit right after hearing him talk about money other times in the house as well... Just seems like it's on his mind.



I don't buy this calm smiling 'love for all men' Dave at all tbh and I am suspecting more and more that his motives arnt pure and that his grubby cult arnt what they present themselves to be...

Another Hubbard quote..

"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them."

Most cult leaders are liars and they are ALL obsessed with money!

[setanta]

Most cult leaders are liars and they are ALL obsessed with money!

Tony Blair and George W Bush please step forward. All leaders talk through their holes eventually.

[stonedape]

I'd seen a couple documentaries on Dave's church before I'd seen Dave. The movement started with a youtuber who became their charismatic leader (kind of culty), but from what I've seen it's basically like a church for former drug addicts/rockers that have settled down but still seek a way to "rock out", listen to loud music, get irrationally happy, etc. without drugs. It's like a more hands on AA meeting. In more traditional evangelical circles, people with lots of tattoos, weird hair and such aren't generally as accepted.

It's not that bad of a Biblical interpretation, if you have to pick and choose. At least it's lovey dovey and not fire and brimstone. That said, Dave is a hypocritical twat so who knows.

[Julie10]

...is a quote that came to mind (from Hubbard, founder of the Scientology cult) when I heard Dave and Ben sn1ggering about how he "just gets drunk and gets paid for it" after being questioned by Keeley about how he makes a living.

I don't know... it just didnt sit right after hearing him talk about money other times in the house as well... Just seems like it's on his mind.



I don't buy this calm smiling 'love for all men' Dave at all tbh and I am suspecting more and more that his motives arnt pure and that his grubby cult arnt what they present themselves to be...

Another Hubbard quote..

"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them."


I agree with you. I think that is why I just can't warm to him. And in a conversation to Ben yesterday he referred to drug takers as 'druggies' and he said it with contempt in his voice. Ben was saying they should be given decent accomodation to live in and Dave disagreed. Considering he was a drug taker himself in his past Ben showed more compassion than he did. That was a real eye opener.

[fingers]

Lest we forget what he wants the money for, it's to attend these sloshfests worldwide.


http://reformedpilgrim.wordpress.com/2010/06/11/david-vaughan-the-new-ecstatics-and-big-brother/

[vesavius]

I agree with you. I think that is why I just can't warm to him. And in a conversation to Ben yesterday he referred to drug takers as 'druggies' and he said it with contempt in his voice. Ben was saying they should be given decent accomodation to live in and Dave disagreed. Considering he was a drug taker himself in his past Ben showed more compassion than he did. That was a real eye opener.

yeah, I have seen his 'universal love' mask slip a few times in there.

Considering the cult deliberately targets junky burnouts and gullible vulnerable teens with 'exciting' cynically chosen language such as 'raves', 'jacking up, and 'getting high', you would think he would have more tolerance and compassion to those still 'lost'.

[chuff me dizzy]

Totally agree,did you see his mates/fellow men of the cloth on bbbm ? all a set of total nutters ,it is not a religion it IS a sect ,dangerous things ,If he is a Christian why done he not got to a normal church ?he doesnt work so hes getting benefits

[vesavius]

Totally agree,did you see his mates/fellow men of the cloth on bbbm ? all a set of total nutters ,it is not a religion it IS a sect ,dangerous things ,If he is a Christian why done he not got to a normal church ?he doesnt work so hes getting benefits

He dosent have to claim benefits Chuff, he pays himself a nice wage out of the cult coffers.

[stonedape]

Sects are not dangerous things in and of themselves. I'd like to see a little bit of decentralization as far as organized religion goes. As far as living off people's gullibility/money and wasting both his and their time with fictitious nonsense, I have no arguments there. But I can't say he's any more guilty of that than the average mainstream church. It's weird, it's nutty, but so's all religion IMO.

The only issue I have with his religious interpretation is his cherry-picking the scarce anti-homosexual bits when there are so many other out-dated mores in the Bible he doesn't follow, consciously or unconsciously. And putting homosexuals in the same category as witches and warlocks on multiple occasions. Frankly, I doubt he's even read the Bible cover to cover. But again, neither has the average Christian.

[Peter Plunker]

Dave was just saying he enjoys his vocation. I've said the same thing about my vocation. Dave took a massive cut in income to minister full time, basicly had to remortgage his home to do it. Nearly all ministries are supported by 'partners', mainstream or not. These partners support their chosen ministries with regular monetary gifts. Unless you're all voluntary workers I suggest you keep your opinions about how much Dave gets paid to yourselves.

Not that any of you will listen to reason of course, you just want to spout crap and rip Dave down about anything.

[fingers]

He also "cherry picks" those parts of the bible that he wants to pretend to live life by. The only part of the old testament he believes in is the 7 days cration thingy which according to him happened 6,000 years ago?

[stonedape]

He also "cherry picks" those parts of the bible that he wants to pretend to live life by. The only part of the old testament he believes in is the 7 days cration thingy which according to him happened 6,000 years ago?

yeah, that too. All those classic evangelical chestnuts. :rolleyes:

[fingers]

Just who is spouting crap, the Forumers or the nutters at/attending so-called sloshfests?

and BTW you haven't told us which of the videos you are in, YET!

[vesavius]

Dave was just saying he enjoys his vocation. I've said the same thing about my vocation. Dave took a massive cut in income to minister full time, basicly had to remortgage his home to do it.

Well, yes, many start up businesses require an investment on behalf of the owner.

Unless you're all voluntary workers I suggest you keep your opinions about how much Dave gets paid to yourselves.


So he does get paid, by the cult he set up?

I see. Thanks for the confirmation.

[WOMBAI]

I'd seen a couple documentaries on Dave's church before I'd seen Dave. The movement started with a youtuber who became their charismatic leader (kind of culty), but from what I've seen it's basically like a church for former drug addicts/rockers that have settled down but still seek a way to "rock out", listen to loud music, get irrationally happy, etc. without drugs. It's like a more hands on AA meeting. In more traditional evangelical circles, people with lots of tattoos, weird hair and such aren't generally as accepted.

It's not that bad of a Biblical interpretation, if you have to pick and choose. At least it's lovey dovey and not fire and brimstone. That said, Dave is a hypocritical twat so who knows.

The first paragraph and a half was very interesting and makes sense - you spoilt it towards the end though - I don't find him hypocritical!

[chuff me dizzy]

Dave was just saying he enjoys his vocation. I've said the same thing about my vocation. Dave took a massive cut in income to minister full time, basicly had to remortgage his home to do it. Nearly all ministries are supported by 'partners', mainstream or not. These partners support their chosen ministries with regular monetary gifts. Unless you're all voluntary workers I suggest you keep your opinions about how much Dave gets paid to yourselves.

Not that any of you will listen to reason of course, you just want to spout crap and rip Dave down about anything.

By "taking a cut in income"do you mean giros? are we the tax payer keeping this conman creep

[chuff me dizzy]

He dosent have to claim benefits Chuff, he pays himself a nice wage out of the cult coffers.

You could be right ,conman then? I will cure your cancer,i will grow your legs back (Cross my palm with silver)

[eviled2010]

He also "cherry picks" those parts of the bible that he wants to pretend to live life by. The only part of the old testament he believes in is the 7 days cration thingy which according to him happened 6,000 years ago?


I love cogent, well thought out reasoned debate, don't you?
:elephant:

[WOMBAI]

Dave was just saying he enjoys his vocation. I've said the same thing about my vocation. Dave took a massive cut in income to minister full time, basicly had to remortgage his home to do it. Nearly all ministries are supported by 'partners', mainstream or not. These partners support their chosen ministries with regular monetary gifts. Unless you're all voluntary workers I suggest you keep your opinions about how much Dave gets paid to yourselves.

Not that any of you will listen to reason of course, you just want to spout crap and rip Dave down about anything.

True enough!

[fingers]

Perhaps Pete Plonker can tell us how many people have had new legs grown by St. Dave,
Or is he thinking about some of his reptile pets who can do it naturally?

[fingers]

i love cogent, well thought out reasoned debate, don't you?
:elephant:

yes!

[chuff me dizzy]

Perhaps Pete Plonker can tell us how many people have had new legs grown by St. Dave,
Or is he thinking about some of his reptile pets who can do it naturally?

he PM me the other day ,if he thinks hes converting me he will have a tough job on his hands :joker::joker:

[WOMBAI]

he PM me the other day ,if he thinks hes converting me he will have a tough job on his hands :joker::joker:

I believe that! :joker:

[housemate]

Peter .. are you denying that Dave smugly told Keely about getting 'drunk' 'and they pay me for it'? You are either deluded or in on the take my friend.

[chuff me dizzy]

FFS Dave preaching to newbies now ,ffs lets hope hes up and gone this week

[chuff me dizzy]

2 faced gett telling Rachel she cannot offend him by talking religion ,but wont discuss it with Keeva

[GiRTh]

2 faced gett telling Rachel she cannot offend him by talking religion ,but wont discuss it with KeevaSurely this is off topic.

Also, it was Keeva who wanted to discuss religion after Dave made a perfectly legit comment that Hitler was full of demons.

[chuff me dizzy]

Surely this is off topic.

Also, it was Keeva who wanted to discuss religion after Dave made a perfectly legit comment that Hitler was full of demons.

Not ot at all ,and Keeva tried to talk religion with him long before Hitler ,he knows he darent answer her

[CaudleHalbard]

He's droning on about religion to newbie Rachel on LF now. :D

[-Sue-]

Agreed OP I dislike Dave and his 'religious ideas' I do not trust him and believe him to be a manipulator I would not trust him as far as I could throw him that is for sure.

'the word of God comes alive...' bleah..he always seems to be trying to get people to agree with his way of thinking (recruitment drive perhaps???) tbh it would make me very uncomfortable if he started to try and preach that stuff to me...im not sure I could be as polite as the HMs have been about his views on things

[chuff me dizzy]

FFS get the camera of Dave or I turn off

[WOMBAI]

Not ot at all ,and Keeva tried to talk religion with him long before Hitler ,he knows he darent answer her

tbh - don't think I would answer her either - as she is clearly spoiling for a fight!

[chuff me dizzy]

Agreed OP I dislike Dave and his 'religious ideas' I do not trust him and believe him to be a manipulator I would not trust him as far as I could throw him that is for sure.

'the word of God comes alive...' bleah..he always seems to be trying to get people to agree with his way of thinking (recruitment drive perhaps???) tbh it would make me very uncomfortable if he started to try and preach that stuff to me...im not sure I could be as polite as the HMs have been about his views on things

Oh yes ,big recruitment drive ,In the words of Brucie "what do new recruits make"£££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

[chuff me dizzy]

tbh - don't think I would answer her either - as she is clearly spoiling for a fight!

He wont answer her because he knows shes not gullible ..turned sound off not listening to this

[WOMBAI]

Sects are not dangerous things in and of themselves. I'd like to see a little bit of decentralization as far as organized religion goes. As far as living off people's gullibility/money and wasting both his and their time with fictitious nonsense, I have no arguments there. But I can't say he's any more guilty of that than the average mainstream church. It's weird, it's nutty, but so's all religion IMO.

The only issue I have with his religious interpretation is his cherry-picking the scarce anti-homosexual bits when there are so many other out-dated mores in the Bible he doesn't follow, consciously or unconsciously. And putting homosexuals in the same category as witches and warlocks on multiple occasions. Frankly, I doubt he's even read the Bible cover to cover. But again, neither has the average Christian.

Although I personally don't agree with a couple of points - I think it is a good post!

[CaudleHalbard]

Dave is now saying he cries for hours because he can't handle so much love from God.

Maybe he needs psychiatric counselling - not religion! :D

[chuff me dizzy]

Dave is now saying he cries for hours because he can't handle so much love from God.

Maybe he needs psychiatric counselling - not religion! :D

Hes a conman

[CaudleHalbard]

Hes a conman

Could be - or genuinely deluded.

Having seen that video of him a couple of years ago, I'm inclined to the latter.

[WOMBAI]

Agreed OP I dislike Dave and his 'religious ideas' I do not trust him and believe him to be a manipulator I would not trust him as far as I could throw him that is for sure.

'the word of God comes alive...' bleah..he always seems to be trying to get people to agree with his way of thinking (recruitment drive perhaps???) tbh it would make me very uncomfortable if he started to try and preach that stuff to me...im not sure I could be as polite as the HMs have been about his views on things

I may be wrong - but if, as you and others imply, Dave is a devious conman who has gone on the show to gain publicity for his 'dishonest cult' and to reap the financial rewards of that - would bb put such a person in there! Do bb not check the background of the hms - surely there must be some kind of checking process in place - they don't want ex-criminals, rapists etc in there!

Can you imagine the uproar if the publicity gained from the show managed to attract many gullible people to Dave's 'dishonest cult' and they were ripped off by him or harmed in some way! All seems a bit far-fetched to me - people getting a bit carried away and hysterical because they don't understand this 'drunk on god' stuff! We fear what we don't understand etc!

[ange7]

Surely this is off topic.

Also, it was Keeva who wanted to discuss religion after Dave made a perfectly legit comment that Hitler was full of demons.
legit IF you believe in "demons" and that demons made Hitler what he was. Keeva doesn't see god's or the devils hand everywhere like Dave does. It implies humans wouldn't commit those atrocities otherwise and that we don't need to understand how atrocities really happened... ie "demons are to blame!".
We don't need Dave's scare tactics since the truth is even scarier... Hitler was human... not 'full of demons'.

[chuff me dizzy]

Could be - or genuinely deluded.

Having seen that video of him a couple of years ago, I'm inclined to the latter.

whatever one it is ,he is on a recruitment drive

[chuff me dizzy]

FFS Rachel go away from him, hes milking this airtime

[CaudleHalbard]

Rachel seems genuinely interested - unfortunately. :(

[chuff me dizzy]

Rachel seems genuinely interested - unfortunately. :(

Turned sound off ,not listening to him

[Fuzzylogic]

He's droning on about religion to newbie Rachel on LF now. :D

If Mario was talking about being gay would you say he was "droning on" about it?

If Steve was talking about his kids would you say he was "droning on" about that?

People talk about what is big in their lives and what is important to them. Dave is a religious minister, so therefore naturally he's going to talk about that.

[WOMBAI]

If Mario was talking about being gay would you say he was "droning on" about it?

If Steve was talking about his kids would you say he was "droning on" about that?

People talk about what is big in their lives and what is important to them. Dave is a religious minister, so therefore naturally he's going to talk about that.

This!

[chuff me dizzy]

If Mario was talking about being gay would you say he was "droning on" about it?

If Steve was talking about his kids would you say he was "droning on" about that?

People talk about what is big in their lives and what is important to them. Dave is a religious minister, so therefore naturally he's going to talk about that.

Totally different ,Dave is a business man ,canvessing and being a bigot

[-Sue-]

I may be wrong - but if, as you and others imply, Dave is a devious conman who has gone on the show to gain publicity for his 'dishonest cult' and to reap the financial rewards of that - would bb put such a person in there! Do bb not check the background of the hms - surely there must be some kind of checking process in place - they don't want ex-criminals, rapists etc in there!

Can you imagine the uproar if the publicity gained from the show managed to attract many gullible people to Dave's 'dishonest cult' and they were ripped off by him or harmed in some way! All seems a bit far-fetched to me - people getting a bit carried away and hysterical because they don't understand this 'drunk on god' stuff! We fear what we don't understand etc!

My point mostly was that Dave spouts this stuff to people.. but watching their body language they are just being 'polite' and listening.. but it would not surprise me in the slightest if they were wishing they had sat next any other HM apart from him!

True I do not understand his drunk on god ideas.. but surely in the way he thinks 'god will provide all that I need' then wouldnt god let him win the lottery so he could open the orphanage? :joker:

[chuff me dizzy]

My point mostly was that Dave spouts this stuff to people.. but watching their body language they are just being 'polite' and listening.. but it would not surprise me in the slightest if they were wishing they had sat next any other HM apart from him!

True I do not understand his drunk on god ideas.. but surely in the way he thinks 'god will provide all that I need' then wouldnt god let him win the lottery so he could open the orphanage? :joker:

"Orphanage" my ass

[vesavius]

Dave is now saying he cries for hours because he can't handle so much love from God.


Dave says a lot of things.

You know what I say?

Don't tell us, show us.



I don't see any of the person he professes to be in there... the majority of what I see is his obvious chasing after a pay off (to the point he actually said 'if theres anyone who wants to give me £100,000 I wouldnt say no' on camera )

No way BB should be acting as a recruitment/ donation seeking platform for an unproven cult imo.

In a few years when they are all maybe drinking Kool Aid in a South American jungle C4 could have a problem in explaining their participation.

[fingers]

Dave says a lot of things.

You know what I say?

Don't tell us, show us.



I don't see any of the person he professes to be in there... the majority of what I see is his obvious chasing after a pay off (to the point he actually said 'if theres anyone who wants to give me £100,000 I wouldnt say no' on camera )

No way BB should be acting as a recruitment/ donation seeking platform for an unproven cult imo.

In a few years when they are all maybe drinking Kool Aid in a South American jungle C4 could have a problem in explaining their participation.

Exactly, and all his junky followers would blithely troop off to Davestown , build him a temple then drink the Kool Aid he thoughtfully provided.

But none of the teenies on here have any idea what we are saying! lol

[WOMBAI]

Exactly, and all his junky followers would blithely troop off to Davestown , build him a temple then drink the Kool Aid he thoughtfully provided.

But none of the teenies on here have any idea what we are saying! lol

Which is the point I made earlier! If there were any doubts about Dave and his 'sect' - would bb have put him in - too risky I would have thought! They must consider him harmless enough!

[vesavius]

Which is the point I made earlier! If there were any doubts about Dave and his 'sect' - would bb have put him in - too risky I would have thought! They must consider him harmless enough!

They have no idea what he is.

[vesavius]

Exactly, and all his junky followers would blithely troop off to Davestown , build him a temple then drink the Kool Aid he thoughtfully provided.

But none of the teenies on here have any idea what we are saying! lol


;)

[fingers]

Which is the point I made earlier! If there were any doubts about Dave and his 'sect' - would bb have put him in - too risky I would have thought! They must consider him harmless enough!

What does BB care? It's the last series anyway and so what if he gets his hundred grand for his sloshfests, they can and will say "we had no idea" lol:joker:

[crit]

My point mostly was that Dave spouts this stuff to people.. but watching their body language they are just being 'polite' and listening.. but it would not surprise me in the slightest if they were wishing they had sat next any other HM apart from him!

True I do not understand his drunk on god ideas.. but surely in the way he thinks 'god will provide all that I need' then wouldnt god let him win the lottery so he could open the orphanage? :joker:


I wont be surprised it the orphanage isnt used as a fund raising project after he leaves the house.

What convinced me that dave isnt truly ' in love with everyone' was his conversation with ben on LF yesterday. They were discussing Bens politics and he was saying he was a 'romantic prgmatist' and that he thought everyone should have good quality beautiful social housing, build well and to last and that if you put people in good housing they will respond by behaving well. Ben said he had faith in human nature....dave shook his head and muttered something about junkies and what a mess theyd make of it.

I was surprised, 1stly because it showed a huge amount of tolerance and genuine belief in others and equality from ben and showed that Daves love was a limited one...limited to those he deemed worthy.

Im liking ben more and dislike dave more as each day passes.

[vesavius]

dave shook his head and muttered something about junkies and what a mess theyd make of it.

Which shows a staggering lack of empathy from an ex junky, at the very least.

[Peter Plunker]

I'm not going to keep on going over the same points. It's mostly the same 4 or 5 points being raised by the same 4 or 5 trolls.

PS, my PM wasn't to convert you, it was to ask you politely to stop being a dick.

[-Sue-]

I wont be surprised it the orphanage isnt used as a fund raising project after he leaves the house.

What convinced me that dave isnt truly ' in love with everyone' was his conversation with ben on LF yesterday. They were discussing Bens politics and he was saying he was a 'romantic prgmatist' and that he thought everyone should have good quality beautiful social housing, build well and to last and that if you put people in good housing they will respond by behaving well. Ben said he had faith in human nature....dave shook his head and muttered something about junkies and what a mess theyd make of it.

I was surprised, 1stly because it showed a huge amount of tolerance and genuine belief in others and equality from ben and showed that Daves love was a limited one...limited to those he deemed worthy.

Im liking ben more and dislike dave more as each day passes.

well said nice post

Only part I can't agree on is liking ben more lol (sorry) but disliking Dave more and more oh yes...

Dave seems to spout the whole 'i love everybody' but soon forgets he has said such things when he singles out people for any number of reasons surely that is not loving everybody..?? agh

[WOMBAI]

I wont be surprised it the orphanage isnt used as a fund raising project after he leaves the house.

What convinced me that dave isnt truly ' in love with everyone' was his conversation with ben on LF yesterday. They were discussing Bens politics and he was saying he was a 'romantic prgmatist' and that he thought everyone should have good quality beautiful social housing, build well and to last and that if you put people in good housing they will respond by behaving well. Ben said he had faith in human nature....dave shook his head and muttered something about junkies and what a mess theyd make of it.

I was surprised, 1stly because it showed a huge amount of tolerance and genuine belief in others and equality from ben and showed that Daves love was a limited one...limited to those he deemed worthy.

Im liking ben more and dislike dave more as each day passes.

Alternatively - he may well be talking about his own experience. As an ex-junkie who would have known many junkies - he may well know how such provision would be wasted on them whilst still taking drugs. I'm sure he would not apply the comments to recovered ex-junkies. Junkies don't just start to 'behave' if they are given nice surroundings - addiction goes far deeper than that - that is what he no doubt meant!

[fingers]

I'm not going to keep on going over the same points. It's mostly the same 4 or 5 points being raised by the same 4 or 5 trolls.

PS, my PM wasn't to convert you, it was to ask you politely to stop being a dick.

Maybe we trolls should politely ask you to piss off and stop trying to apologise for your master?

[vesavius]

I'm not going to keep on going over the same points. It's mostly the same 4 or 5 points being raised by the same 4 or 5 trolls.

PS, my PM wasn't to convert you, it was to ask you politely to stop being a dick.

Asking you for clear answers isnt trolling you Peter...

Nor is questioning a man on his faith and cult who is in the house solely on the basis of his faith and cult.

Please, theres no need to hide behind name calling just because the conversation isnt one you feel comfortable in.

[crit]

Alternatively - he may well be talking about his own experience. As an ex-junkie who would have known many junkies - he may well know how such provision would be wasted on them whilst still taking drugs. I'm sure he would not apply the comments to recovered ex-junkies. Junkies don't just start to 'behave' if they are given nice surroundings - addiction goes far deeper than that - that is what he no doubt meant!

Im not convinced all junkies live in squalor or that they dont deserve to have good treatment and services just because theyre junkies, but hey we all have different opinionsl . Maybe daves speaking for himself there heh.

During bens explanation of his political thinking dave was shaking his head in disagreement while ben was coming out with some surprisingly unexpected egalitarian statements that really showed a difference between himself and dave. ie ben came out of the conversation looking like the caring compassionate loving person and dave came off looking like a narrow minded git. Thats the point i was trying to make...dave is not very convincing as an altruistic god gobbler.

[oddballmisfitsFTW]

Most cult leaders are liars and they are ALL obsessed with money!

Most religious leaders are liars and they are all obsessed with power, control and money

cult = a religion before people are forced to respect it

[WOMBAI]

Im not convinced all junkies live in squalor or that they dont deserve to have good treatment and services just because theyre junkies, but hey we all have different opinionsl . Maybe daves speaking for himself there heh.

During bens explanation of his political thinking dave was shaking his head in disagreement while ben was coming out with some surprisingly unexpected egalitarian statements that really showed a difference between himself and dave. ie ben came out of the conversation looking like the caring compassionate loving person and dave came off looking like a narrow minded git. Thats the point i was trying to make...dave is not very convincing as an altruistic god gobbler.

But for those junkies that do live in squalor and don't have decent housing - would the provision of such housing be appreciated - probably not! It could well end up getting wrecked and would, therefore, be wasted, when others would have appreciated it more! Dave has been there, done that, got the tee-shirt - I'm sure he knows what he is talking about! Junkies probably need help in other ways first.

And if Dave was the 'conman' people say he is - would he have made such comments and meant them in the way people imply - that would have been pretty stupid, wouldn't it!

[crit]

But for those junkies that do live in squalor and don't have decent housing - would the provision of such housing be appreciated - probably not! It could well end up getting wrecked and would, therefore, be wasted, when others would have appreciated it more! Dave has been there, done that, got the tee-shirt - I'm sure he knows what he is talking about! Junkies probably need help in other ways first.

And if Dave was the 'conman' people say he is - would he have made such comments and meant them in the way people imply - that would have been pretty stupid, wouldn't it!


I dont think hes that bright either.

[Peter Plunker]

Asking you for clear answers isnt trolling you Peter...

Nor is questioning a man on his faith and cult who is in the house solely on the basis of his faith and cult.

Please, theres no need to hide behind name calling just because the conversation isnt one you feel comfortable in.


I've answered you time and time again.
Dave does not lead a cult.
If someone is being a dick I will tell them they are being a dick, that's not name calling.
I've had this conversation far more intelligent people than you, please don't flatter yourself into thinking I'm on the back foot.

[vesavius]

I've answered you time and time again.
Dave does not lead a cult.
If someone is being a dick I will tell them they are being a dick, that's not name calling.
I've had this conversation far more intelligent people than you, please don't flatter yourself into thinking I'm on the back foot.

But the point is that you don't have the conversation at all.

you just call them a dick or attack their intelligence.

"The word cult pejoratively refers to a group whose beliefs or practices are reasonably considered strange. The word implies a group which is a minority in society..."

So, please explain to me, maybe without the insults or personal attacks, why The New Ecstatics are not a cult?

[WOMBAI]

I dont think hes that bright either.

Sounds bright enough to me!

[SoFarSoGood282]

I have been looking on his website and have found nothing on their beliefs.
http://www.thenewecstatics.co.uk/The_New_Ecstatics/Welcome.html
As some one else on here said the just like to throw words around like ecstasy, drunk and high around to entice new young members to join..
Even on his videos he rambles on and on and most of it doesn't make sense!
The only thing on the website that is clear is the hyperlink to the donations page!

[-Sue-]

I've answered you time and time again.
Dave does not lead a cult.
If someone is being a dick I will tell them they are being a dick, that's not name calling.
I've had this conversation far more intelligent people than you, please don't flatter yourself into thinking I'm on the back foot.
wow you came in steaming like ivor the engine then didn't you :eek::eek::joker:

[Peter Plunker]

But the point is that you don't have the conversation at all.

you just call them a dick or attack their intelligence.

"The word cult pejoratively refers to a group whose beliefs or practices are reasonably considered strange. The word implies a group which is a minority in society..."

So, please explain to me, maybe without the insults or personal attacks, why The New Ecstatics are not a cult?

Now who's cherry picking? If you must quote wikipedia pages, at least quote them in context an in their entirety.

[vesavius]

Now who's cherry picking? If you must quote wikipedia pages, at least quote them in context an in their entirety.

Feel free to post the whole wiki page, I'm cool with that.

I merely edited for emphasis.


Once again though, you prefer to evasive deflection over the honest conversation.

Again.. how are The New Ecstatics not a cult?

[fingers]

Jim Jones also brainwashed his followers to such an extent that they revered him and drank his poisoned Kool Aid killing 900 of them and making "the Reverend" one of the biggest mass murderers in peacetime.

[Peter Plunker]

Again.. how are The New Ecstatics not a cult?

Because they don't meet any of the criteria of a cult.

[fingers]

Because they don't meet any of the criteria of a cult.

OMG :joker::joker::joker::joker::joker::joker::joker:: joker::joker::joker::joker::joker::joker::joker::j oker::joker::joker::joker::joker::joker::joker::jo ker:

[vesavius]

Because they don't meet any of the criteria of a cult.

"Steve Hassan, a former cult member and one of the nation’s leading experts on cult control, has produced a valuable work titled, Releasing the Bonds. Both of these men have helped in identifying the tell-tale signs of cult mentality.

Consider the following:

(1) Cult members are “focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.” The leader is a strong-willed, domineering character who rules the group with tight control. He lets it be known in subtle ways that he is in charge of the movement. He makes the plans, he orchestrates the movements of the group or groups (sometimes he exercises his sway over several groups). He dispatches the workers, assigns their chores, etc.

Frequently, they even begin to imitate his mannerisms in terms of voice inflection, language patterns, aggressive attitudes, etc. They become clones of their esteemed leader. It is not uncommon that the leader knows of weaknesses or past problems of people within his group. Thus, through subtle intimidation and fear he keeps them under his control.

(2) “Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged,” and there can be pressure or social punishment when there is disagreement with the “boss.” Those who disagree are made to feel as though they are stupid or inept. They are brainwashed with the notion that they do not have the knowledge or experience to question the leader.

Younger people are particularly vulnerable to the leader’s gift of gab, and his feigned expertise. No matter how radical the leader becomes in his decisions or actions, the cult members will not criticize him. Even if there should be mild disagreement, no specific expressions are voiced. The members reason that though he may be mistaken in some of his judgments, yet the overall good he accomplishes outweighs any minor flaws.

Members are taught to “rationalize” the conduct of the leader in matters they have always “considered unethical before,” under the guise that the “end justifies the means.”

(3) The leader “is preoccupied with [raising] money.” There is always a need for increasing finances. New projects are ever in the planning. Members are strongly encouraged to greatly sacrifice for the leader’s current pet enterprise. There is little pressure let-up; members of the group must be kept revved up on a continual basis.

The cult leader always takes the major credit for the movement’s accomplishments. Members become psychologically dependent upon him. “What would we ever do without our leader?,” is the cult mentality.

(4) The cult leader generates within his members “a polarized” mentality. His people evolve an us-versus-them outlook. Little by little, he criticizes other groups with which his members might tend to associate, undermining confidence in them, attempting to discredit anyone who could have influence over his flock.

Cult members become suspicious; they imbibe the critical disposition. “No one is really as sound as we are. We are an elitist group.” And so, seeds of isolationism are sown. The movement leader discourages reading any material, examining any ideas that he does not generate. He seeks to control the inflow of knowledge relative to his group.

Kip McKean has actually charged his followers not to read certain books dealing with mind control, characterizing any breach of this rule as sin (Hassan 2000, xvii). Jehovah’s Witnesses generally will not read any literature other than that published by the Watchtower Association.

(5) The cult leader has a clearly defined anti-authoritarian disposition. Within the context of the church, for instance, he would have an “anti-elder” attitude. Elders would be recipients of constant critical remarks. No cult leader would affiliate himself with a congregation having elders to whom he must be in submission. Control could not be maintained in such an environment.

The cult leader will constantly criticize preachers, particularly those whose knowledge of the Scriptures eclipse his own. Members must be made to feel that he is the chief authority in spiritual matters.

(6) Cult members are seen occasionally to take on a new personality. They begin to act differently. They become increasingly antagonistic to family members and long-time friends. They may even boast, “I am not the old [name] that you used to know; I am a new person now.” And indeed they are. They have become strangers to those who knew them well. They have been transformed into the image of their leader."


Really?

[-Sue-]

"Steve Hassan, a former cult member and one of the nation’s leading experts on cult control, has produced a valuable work titled, Releasing the Bonds. Both of these men have helped in identifying the tell-tale signs of cult mentality.

Consider the following:

(1) Cult members are “focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.” The leader is a strong-willed, domineering character who rules the group with tight control. He lets it be known in subtle ways that he is in charge of the movement. He makes the plans, he orchestrates the movements of the group or groups (sometimes he exercises his sway over several groups). He dispatches the workers, assigns their chores, etc.

Frequently, they even begin to imitate his mannerisms in terms of voice inflection, language patterns, aggressive attitudes, etc. They become clones of their esteemed leader. It is not uncommon that the leader knows of weaknesses or past problems of people within his group. Thus, through subtle intimidation and fear he keeps them under his control.

(2) “Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged,” and there can be pressure or social punishment when there is disagreement with the “boss.” Those who disagree are made to feel as though they are stupid or inept. They are brainwashed with the notion that they do not have the knowledge or experience to question the leader.

Younger people are particularly vulnerable to the leader’s gift of gab, and his feigned expertise. No matter how radical the leader becomes in his decisions or actions, the cult members will not criticize him. Even if there should be mild disagreement, no specific expressions are voiced. The members reason that though he may be mistaken in some of his judgments, yet the overall good he accomplishes outweighs any minor flaws.

Members are taught to “rationalize” the conduct of the leader in matters they have always “considered unethical before,” under the guise that the “end justifies the means.”

(3) The leader “is preoccupied with [raising] money.” There is always a need for increasing finances. New projects are ever in the planning. Members are strongly encouraged to greatly sacrifice for the leader’s current pet enterprise. There is little pressure let-up; members of the group must be kept revved up on a continual basis.

The cult leader always takes the major credit for the movement’s accomplishments. Members become psychologically dependent upon him. “What would we ever do without our leader?,” is the cult mentality.

(4) The cult leader generates within his members “a polarized” mentality. His people evolve an us-versus-them outlook. Little by little, he criticizes other groups with which his members might tend to associate, undermining confidence in them, attempting to discredit anyone who could have influence over his flock.

Cult members become suspicious; they imbibe the critical disposition. “No one is really as sound as we are. We are an elitist group.” And so, seeds of isolationism are sown. The movement leader discourages reading any material, examining any ideas that he does not generate. He seeks to control the inflow of knowledge relative to his group.

Kip McKean has actually charged his followers not to read certain books dealing with mind control, characterizing any breach of this rule as sin (Hassan 2000, xvii). Jehovah’s Witnesses generally will not read any literature other than that published by the Watchtower Association.

(5) The cult leader has a clearly defined anti-authoritarian disposition. Within the context of the church, for instance, he would have an “anti-elder” attitude. Elders would be recipients of constant critical remarks. No cult leader would affiliate himself with a congregation having elders to whom he must be in submission. Control could not be maintained in such an environment.

The cult leader will constantly criticize preachers, particularly those whose knowledge of the Scriptures eclipse his own. Members must be made to feel that he is the chief authority in spiritual matters.

(6) Cult members are seen occasionally to take on a new personality. They begin to act differently. They become increasingly antagonistic to family members and long-time friends. They may even boast, “I am not the old [name] that you used to know; I am a new person now.” And indeed they are. They have become strangers to those who knew them well. They have been transformed into the image of their leader."


Really?

:eek: lol.. god bless google lol..still loving your work my friend lol - you tell em :joker:

[WOMBAI]

Jim Jones also brainwashed his followers to such an extent that they revered him and drank his poisoned Kool Aid killing 900 of them and making "the Reverend" one of the biggest mass murderers in peacetime.

Drama queens are out in full force I see! :sleep:

[SoFarSoGood282]

Peter Plunker's answers are very like Dave's answers to Caoimhe!! Very vague!
Is he one of Dave's cult members??

[vesavius]

Peter Plunker's answers are very like Dave's answers to Caoimhe!! Very vague!
Is he one of Dave's cult members??

Yes, but he won't tell us which one of them in the vids he is.

[WOMBAI]

"Steve Hassan, a former cult member and one of the nation’s leading experts on cult control, has produced a valuable work titled, Releasing the Bonds. Both of these men have helped in identifying the tell-tale signs of cult mentality.

Consider the following:

(1) Cult members are “focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.” The leader is a strong-willed, domineering character who rules the group with tight control. He lets it be known in subtle ways that he is in charge of the movement. He makes the plans, he orchestrates the movements of the group or groups (sometimes he exercises his sway over several groups). He dispatches the workers, assigns their chores, etc.

Frequently, they even begin to imitate his mannerisms in terms of voice inflection, language patterns, aggressive attitudes, etc. They become clones of their esteemed leader. It is not uncommon that the leader knows of weaknesses or past problems of people within his group. Thus, through subtle intimidation and fear he keeps them under his control.

(2) “Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged,” and there can be pressure or social punishment when there is disagreement with the “boss.” Those who disagree are made to feel as though they are stupid or inept. They are brainwashed with the notion that they do not have the knowledge or experience to question the leader.

Younger people are particularly vulnerable to the leader’s gift of gab, and his feigned expertise. No matter how radical the leader becomes in his decisions or actions, the cult members will not criticize him. Even if there should be mild disagreement, no specific expressions are voiced. The members reason that though he may be mistaken in some of his judgments, yet the overall good he accomplishes outweighs any minor flaws.

Members are taught to “rationalize” the conduct of the leader in matters they have always “considered unethical before,” under the guise that the “end justifies the means.”

(3) The leader “is preoccupied with [raising] money.” There is always a need for increasing finances. New projects are ever in the planning. Members are strongly encouraged to greatly sacrifice for the leader’s current pet enterprise. There is little pressure let-up; members of the group must be kept revved up on a continual basis.

The cult leader always takes the major credit for the movement’s accomplishments. Members become psychologically dependent upon him. “What would we ever do without our leader?,” is the cult mentality.

(4) The cult leader generates within his members “a polarized” mentality. His people evolve an us-versus-them outlook. Little by little, he criticizes other groups with which his members might tend to associate, undermining confidence in them, attempting to discredit anyone who could have influence over his flock.

Cult members become suspicious; they imbibe the critical disposition. “No one is really as sound as we are. We are an elitist group.” And so, seeds of isolationism are sown. The movement leader discourages reading any material, examining any ideas that he does not generate. He seeks to control the inflow of knowledge relative to his group.

Kip McKean has actually charged his followers not to read certain books dealing with mind control, characterizing any breach of this rule as sin (Hassan 2000, xvii). Jehovah’s Witnesses generally will not read any literature other than that published by the Watchtower Association.

(5) The cult leader has a clearly defined anti-authoritarian disposition. Within the context of the church, for instance, he would have an “anti-elder” attitude. Elders would be recipients of constant critical remarks. No cult leader would affiliate himself with a congregation having elders to whom he must be in submission. Control could not be maintained in such an environment.

The cult leader will constantly criticize preachers, particularly those whose knowledge of the Scriptures eclipse his own. Members must be made to feel that he is the chief authority in spiritual matters.

(6) Cult members are seen occasionally to take on a new personality. They begin to act differently. They become increasingly antagonistic to family members and long-time friends. They may even boast, “I am not the old [name] that you used to know; I am a new person now.” And indeed they are. They have become strangers to those who knew them well. They have been transformed into the image of their leader."


Really?

That's fine - but how exactly does that relate to Dave?

[fingers]

That's fine - but how exactly does that relate to Dave?

"There are none so blind......."

[WOMBAI]

Yes, but he won't tell us which one of them in the vids he is.

Why should he - and btw your attacks seem equally as vague - just opinions, no actual proof that Dave and his group are a 'cult'! Works both ways!

[crit]

Sounds bright enough to me!

Point proven.

[vesavius]

That's fine - but how exactly does that relate to Dave?

Read it again with an open mind and some objectivety.

[fingers]

Read it again with an open mind and some objectivety.

Now that's going to be REALLY difficult!

[SoFarSoGood282]

By definition it is a cult but as with all cults the members will never see it as one!

[WOMBAI]

"There are none so blind......."

It isn't me being blind - I am not at all religious, never have been and never likely to be, but you are on some blind campaign to 'out' someone who believes in something you don't agree with, or understand! I don't understand them either - but that doesn't mean Dave is the devil incarnate! From what I have seen of him in the house - he seems and ok guy - I will judge him on that until I have reason to do otherwise! There simply isn't any evidence to justify the attacks you keep making on him! All just hyperthetical and is becoming very boring!

[WOMBAI]

Point proven.

In your dreams! :joker:

[-Sue-]

Now that's going to be REALLY difficult!
lol

[Late for the Party]

Hello all, I am indeed late for the party but.....so what, i thought i would start off by quoting one of my favorite authors "Richard Dawkins"
"There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"
I assume everyone has seen the 'Deceptive Wine From Lake Land' video on youtube, it might just change your opinion on St.Dave, weather you are religious or not.

[WOMBAI]

lol

I just don't have a closed mind like you lot! btw my vocabulary extends considerably further than lol! :joker:

[WOMBAI]

Hello all, I am indeed late for the party but.....so what, i thought i would start off by quoting one of my favorite authors "Richard Dawkins"
"There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"
I assume everyone has seen the 'Deceptive Wine From Lake Land' video on youtube, it might just change your opinion on St.Dave, weather you are religious or not.

We have been bombarded with these vids - hence some people fear what they don't understand!

[fingers]

It isn't me being blind - I am not at all religious, never have been and never likely to be, but you are on some blind campaign to 'out' someone who believes in something you don't agree with, or understand! I don't understand them either - but that doesn't mean Dave is the devil incarnate! From what I have seen of him in the house - he seems and ok guy - I will judge him on that until I have reason to do otherwise! There simply isn't any evidence to justify the attacks you keep making on him! All just hyperthetical and is becoming very boring!

The quote is "there are none so blind as those who WILL not see"

Just to help you out!

[crit]

We have been bombarded with these vids - hence some people fear what they don't understand!


Again point proven...you really should double check your posts for irony and pot kettle black syndrome before you hit the send button.

[flamingGalah!]

Yes, but he won't tell us which one of them in the vids he is.

Just look for the ugliest one looking adoringly at Dave... ;)

[WOMBAI]

The quote is "there are none so blind as those who WILL not see"

Just to help you out!

Just as you WILL NOT see - that his belief's are harmless and no threat to you!

[fingers]

Just as you WILL NOT see - that his belief's are harmless and no threat to you!

For newcomers, this is what WOBBLE is defending:

http://reformedpilgrim.wordpress.com/2010/06/11/david-vaughan-the-new-ecstatics-and-big-brother/

:dance::dance::dance:

[BitterFruit]

He also "cherry picks" those parts of the bible that he wants to pretend to live life by. The only part of the old testament he believes in is the 7 days cration thingy which according to him happened 6,000 years ago?


very worrying for someone educated in europe.....the Creationist stuff is usually only believed in the dumbed down American midwest

[Late for the Party]

For newcomers, this is what WOBBLE is defending:

http://reformedpilgrim.wordpress.com/2010/06/11/david-vaughan-the-new-ecstatics-and-big-brother/

:dance::dance::dance:
I would consider myself to be fairly 'thick skinned' but I am genuinely shocked at some of the things in that link.
How can the producers justify giving this crackpot air time....actually how can they justify letting him onto the show in the first place? I would like to say more but i am so disappointed ATM, I don't know what to say.........
Dave is clearly a fundamentalist christian......i wonder would they have allowed a islamic fundamentalist on the show.

[Late for the Party]

We have been bombarded with these vids - hence some people fear what they don't understand! Excuse me but I understand completely....religion, including yours, daves and everyone else's, were born out of the human, fear of death and what happens afterwards........obviously

[fingers]

I would consider myself to be fairly 'thick skinned' but I am genuinely shocked at some of the things in that link.
How can the producers justify giving this crackpot air time....actually how can they justify letting him onto the show in the first place? I would like to say more but i am so disappointed ATM, I don't know what to say.........
Dave is clearly a fundamentalist christian......i wonder would they have allowed a islamic fundamentalist on the show.

That is what most people think apart from about 2 apologists who continually post their devotion to St. Dave.

[WOMBAI]

For newcomers, this is what WOBBLE is defending:

http://reformedpilgrim.wordpress.com/2010/06/11/david-vaughan-the-new-ecstatics-and-big-brother/

:dance::dance::dance:

And your childish name-calling of those who you disagree with - demonstrates what type of argument you put forward!

[fingers]

And your childish name-calling of those who you disagree with - demonstrates what type of argument you put forward!

You're confusing me with Peter Plonker the Troll hunter!

BTW thanks for reposting the link!

[flamingGalah!]

It is shocking that any sane minded person could agree with Dave's views...

[Late for the Party]

And your childish name-calling of those who you disagree with - demonstrates what type of argument you put forward!
So you chose to disregard my comment. Truth hurts i think.
I think I made a fair point, there is no way in hell(<<irony) that they would let an islamic fundamentalist on to the show, but a christian fundamentalist....hey no problem

[WOMBAI]

You're confusing me with Peter Plonker the Troll hunter!

BTW thanks for reposting the link!

There you go again - plonker, wobble - what an extensive adult vocabulary you have! Pardon me if I don't take your views too seriously! :joker:

[fingers]

There you go again - plonker, wobble - what an extensive adult vocabulary you have! Pardon me if I don't take your views too seriously! :joker:and pardon me if I choose to ignore your self opinionated claptrap from now on!

[WOMBAI]

Excuse me but I understand completely....religion, including yours, daves and everyone else's, were born out of the human, fear of death and what happens afterwards........obviously

Look dear, I will say this one more time - I am not, have never been and never will be at all religious in any way, shape or form - but I do respect other people's rights to be so! I don't like cults and I don't like oppressive religions - but, so far, I have seen no evidence to suggest that Dave is either! When we die, we rot - realistic enough view for you! :sleep:

[-Sue-]

I am offering a thread time out.. **DING DING END OF ROUND 1...KIT KATS TO THE LEFT .. MARS BARS TO THE RIGHT...TO YER CORNERS PLEASE**

[Late for the Party]

I have seen no evidence to suggest that Dave is either! So you didn't click the link then.

[WOMBAI]

So you didn't click the link then.

If you are talking about those stupid vids showing him 'drunk on the Lord' - they prove nothing!

[vesavius]

There you go again - plonker, wobble - what an extensive adult vocabulary you have! Pardon me if I don't take your views too seriously! :joker:

The trouble is Wombai, and I say this from experience with you in other threads, is that you don't take anyone's views seriously no matter what type of vocabulary they have.

In reality, this is just you being as name calling and immature as the people you try and call as such.

I have put forward very valid points in this thread, but instead you ignore them to get involved in name slinging competitions, all the while pretending to be some kind intellectual superior.

This is your classic tactic though, like I say I have seen it before from you. You ignore valid arguments (to which you will probably say there hasnt been any, knowing you) and muddy the water by personal attacks, while trying to make out your the adult in the situation.

So.. maybe lets listen to Fire, chill out, and actually talk about Dave, his very questionable cult, and what it means for C4 to be giving airtime to him to use as a recruitment/ donation platform.

[Late for the Party]

If you are talking about those stupid vids showing him 'drunk on the Lord' - they prove nothing!
No, but did you read any of the rhetoric/bombastic articles that are on the site.
Obviously, neither of us are going to change our minds, so maybe you could help us(anti-dave people) understand him a little bit better.

[WOMBAI]

No, but did you read any of the rhetoric/bombastic articles that are on the site.
Obviously, neither of us are going to change our minds, so maybe you could help us(anti-dave people) understand him a little bit better.

I am not claiming to 'understand' him - I just find him an interesting and funny hm! I don't give a damn about his religious views as long as he is not shoving them down other people's throats! As I said, I also see no evidence of his group being an evil cult - some people have tried to compare him to Jim Jones - ludicrous, as they have absolutely no evidence of that! Just a bunch of drama queens!

[vesavius]

I am not claiming to 'understand' him - I just find him an interesting and funny hm!


Then maybe just back off out of the conversation and stop muddying the water for those of us who do wish to understand him?

I don't give a damn about his religious views as long as he is not shoving them down other people's throats!

He is in the house due who and what he is. It's all up for discussion.

As for shoving them down throats... I am not sure I have heard him say 1 thing in there that hasnt been laced in his faith.

Just a bunch of drama queens!

/sigh.. again with the personal insults.

[fingers]

The trouble is Wombai, and I say this from experience with you in other threads, is that you don't take anyone's views seriously no matter what type of vocabulary they have.

In reality, this is just you being as name calling and immature as the people you try and call as such.

I have put forward very valid points in this thread, but instead you ignore them to get involved in name slinging competitions, all the while pretending to be some kind intellectual superior.

This is your classic tactic though, like I say I have seen it before from you. You ignore valid arguments (to which you will probably say there hasnt been any, knowing you) and muddy the water by personal attacks, while trying to make out your the adult in the situation.

So.. maybe lets listen to Fire, chill out, and actually talk about Dave, his very questionable cult, and what it means for C4 to be giving airtime to him to use as a recruitment/ donation platform.

Why does WOBBLE remind me of a 10 year old shouting in the playground

"I know more words than you do, nyah nyah nah nah, nah" :dance::joker::dance:!

[-Sue-]

I am not claiming to 'understand' him - I just find him an interesting and funny hm! I don't give a damn about his religious views as long as he is not shoving them down other people's throats! As I said, I also see no evidence of his group being an evil cult - some people have tried to compare him to Jim Jones - ludicrous, as they have absolutely no evidence of that! Just a bunch of drama queens!
youtube his group let us know if you find what they get up to as 'sane' behaviour:joker::joker:

[WOMBAI]

Why does WOBBLE remind me of a 10 year old shouting in the playground

"I know more words than you do, nyah nyah nah nah, nah" :dance::joker::dance:!

Are you serious - says someone twisting people's names into some negative, childish word! You are clearly still very familiar with the playground!

I'll give you fingers - two of them! :xyxwave:

[WOMBAI]

The trouble is Wombai, and I say this from experience with you in other threads, is that you don't take anyone's views seriously no matter what type of vocabulary they have.
In reality, this is just you being as name calling and immature as the people you try and call as such.

I have put forward very valid points in this thread, but instead you ignore them to get involved in name slinging competitions, all the while pretending to be some kind intellectual superior.

This is your classic tactic though, like I say I have seen it before from you. You ignore valid arguments (to which you will probably say there hasnt been any, knowing you) and muddy the water by personal attacks, while trying to make out your the adult in the situation.

So.. maybe lets listen to Fire, chill out, and actually talk about Dave, his very questionable cult, and what it means for C4 to be giving airtime to him to use as a recruitment/ donation platform.

You are so wrong - I just don't agree with your hate filled drivel! :xyxwave:

[vesavius]

Are you serious - says someone twisting people's names into some negative, childish words! You are clearly still very familiar with the playground!

I'll give you fingers - two of them! :xyxwave:

Classic Wombai 'debate'.

Ever the intellectual.

[WOMBAI]

Classic Wombai 'debate'.

Ever the intellectual.

Just coming down to your level - if you can't take it, don't give it! :hugesmile:

[vesavius]

You are so wrong - I just don't agree with your hate filled drivel! :xyxwave:

No one know swhat you agree with, just like you irrationally love Dave and think that it's cool to continously personally attack people.

We are in exactly the same situation as Shunshine with you on this. Exactly the same pattern of blind love and petty insults.

Just coming down to your level - if you can't take it, don't give it! :hugesmile:

the funny thing about you is that you actually think you are being smart, scoring points, and 'winning'. :/

[chuff me dizzy]

If you are talking about those stupid vids showing him 'drunk on the Lord' - they prove nothing!

Of course they prove something,they prove hes a conman and a cheat ,giving sick people false hope and no doubt taking money from sick people too

[fingers]

Classic Wombai 'debate'.

Ever the intellectual.

I should have put the child on Ignore days ago, now I only see the claptrap if someone quotes it!! lol :dance::elephant::dance:

[Zippy]

When we die, we rot

Amen!

Only humans are arrogant enough to assume we should go on and on and on in some other life. Er, no. In the words of the mighty JLS; you only get one shot, so make it count.

[WOMBAI]

I should have put the child on Ignore days ago, now I only see the claptrap if someone quotes it!! lol :dance::elephant::dance:

Says one child to another! :joker:

Enjoy your hate filled 'debate' - Dave, at least, doesn't have to clap eyes on it!

[vesavius]

Says one child to another! :joker:

Enjoy your hate filled 'debate' - Dave, at least, doesn't have to clap eyes on it!

Cya Wombai, don't let the door bang you on the ass on the way out :xyxwave:

[WOMBAI]

No one know swhat you agree with, just like you irrationally love Dave and think that it's cool to continously personally attack people.

We are in exactly the same situation as Shunshine with you on this. Exactly the same pattern of blind love and petty insults.


the funny thing about you is that you actually think you are being smart, scoring points, and 'winning'. :/

What's even funnier - is so do you! :joker:

[Zippy]

Of course they prove something,they prove hes a conman and a cheat ,giving sick people false hope and no doubt taking money from sick people too

My God, you and your OTT accusations.

Its 7pm so I assume youre in your pyjamas by now?

[vesavius]

What's even funnier - is so do you! :joker:

Repeating back what I have just said means you win the internetz! Gratz!

now, shoo... adults trying to have a proper chat here.

[fingers]

Cya Wombai, don't let the door bang you on the ass on the way out :xyxwave:

I'm sure Peter Plonker will be keeping a record for his master and will impart all the juicy bits when he is evicted.:wavey:

[WOMBAI]

Cya Wombai, don't let the door bang you on the ass on the way out :xyxwave:

Leave it on the latch - I might be back! :joker:

[WOMBAI]

Repeating back what I have just said means you win the internetz! Gratz!

now, shoo... adults trying to have a proper chat here.

Adults - ha, ha, ha - one day maybe - won't hold my breath though! :joker:

[vesavius]

Hello all, I am indeed late for the party but.....so what, i thought i would start off by quoting one of my favorite authors "Richard Dawkins"
"There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"
I assume everyone has seen the 'Deceptive Wine From Lake Land' video on youtube, it might just change your opinion on St.Dave, weather you are religious or not.

That vid is really disturbing tbh.

Like I have said already, either the Dave in that film is real, or the Dave in the house is real... Because the two arnt remotely similar.

Will the real Dave please stand up?

[fingers]

That vid is really disturbing tbh.

Like I have said already, either the Dave in that film is real, or the Dave in the house is real... Because the two arnt remotely similar.

Will the real Dave please stand up?

Actually THIS is disturbing!

http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/category/dave-vaughan/

Even More Disturbing is the fact that all of this was in the public domain LONG before BB put him in the House.

[chuff me dizzy]

Actually THIS is disturbing!

http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/category/dave-vaughan/

Even More Disturbing is the fact that all of this was in the public domain LONG before BB put him in the House.

VERY ,why can he name himself as "A man of the cloth?" why does he wear a monks outfit? why did he tell Keeva he could preform her wedding? crook and nutcase ,I have heard him and now read on here he remortgaged his house ,but he still has to pay the bills ,and the cost of the remortgage ,where does his money come from? giros? conning cancer victims? HATE him and his fake ways

[boomoo]

Sects are not dangerous things in and of themselves. I'd like to see a little bit of decentralization as far as organized religion goes. As far as living off people's gullibility/money and wasting both his and their time with fictitious nonsense, I have no arguments there. But I can't say he's any more guilty of that than the average mainstream church. It's weird, it's nutty, but so's all religion IMO.

The only issue I have with his religious interpretation is his cherry-picking the scarce anti-homosexual bits when there are so many other out-dated mores in the Bible he doesn't follow, consciously or unconsciously. And putting homosexuals in the same category as witches and warlocks on multiple occasions. Frankly, I doubt he's even read the Bible cover to cover. But again, neither has the average Christian.

The Bible is in 2 parts the Old and New Testament. Christians follow the New Testament which is the life of Jesus and the way to live. That is why so many Christians have not read the Old testament.
All people have benefitted from the teachings of Christ. An eye for an eye is the Old Testament love thy neighbour is the new.
Christ said by their actions you will know them.
All charity began with Christ in that he said to take care not only of your friends which the people of the Old testament did but he wanted people to take care of the people they dont like.
Very hard to do which is why so many people give up on his teachings.

[chuff me dizzy]

The Bible is in 2 parts the Old and New Testament. Christians follow the New Testament which is the life of Jesus and the way to live. That is why so many Christians have not read the Old testament.
All people have benefitted from the teachings of Christ. An eye for an eye is the Old Testament love thy neighbour is the new.
Christ said by their actions you will know them.
All charity began with Christ in that he said to take care not only of your friends which the people of the Old testament did but he wanted people to take care of the people they dont like.
Very hard to do which is why so many people give up on his teachings.

Go find a God site please ,dont spew your bs here

[Late for the Party]

I honestly don't think BB is the place for anyone remotely religious, particularly for someone with a belief system like Dave.
Maybe Dave isn't pushing his beliefs onto other house mates, but C4 have most certainly, pushed his beliefs onto us, merely by letting him onto the show in the first place.
Is he comparable to Jim Jones, no not yet, more like Derek Achora. They both are very good at conning gullible/vulnerable people out of there money, and they have both spent so much time preaching that they have actually convinced themselves, to a certain extent.
Anyone who has looked at those videos or have read through those articles properly, should be able to see straight through Dave's act, WOMBAI you should have gone to specksavers.
I agree, his religion is not a dangerous cult as of yet, but it has the potential to be a serious threat and danger to any vulnerable people who get involved in it.
What i wonder is, is Dave the one doing the brainwashing, or has some one brainwashed him.
BTW I am using the term brainwashing literally

[fingers]

I honestly don't think BB is the place for anyone remotely religious, particularly for someone with a belief system like Dave.
Maybe Dave isn't pushing his beliefs onto other house mates, but C4 have most certainly, pushed his beliefs onto us, merely by letting him onto the show in the first place.
Is he comparable to Jim Jones, no not yet, more like Derek Achora. They both are very good at conning gullible/vulnerable people out of there money, and they have both spent so much time preaching that they have actually convinced themselves, to a certain extent.
Anyone who has looked at those videos or have read through those articles properly, should be able to see straight through Dave's act, WOMBAI you should have gone to specksavers.
I agree, his religion is not a dangerous cult as of yet, but it has the potential to be a serious threat and danger to any vulnerable people who get involved in it.
What i wonder is, is Dave the one doing the brainwashing, or has some one brainwashed him.
BTW I am using the term brainwashing literally

Good, sensible, post.

[Late for the Party]

Good, sensible, post.
I was worried for a while there, I thought WOMBAI was the voice of the majority

[fingers]

I was worried for a while there, I thought WOMBAI was the voice of the majority

WOBBLE is the voice of the New Ecstatics on here! lol

[chuff me dizzy]

WOBBLE is the voice of the New Ecstatics on here! lol

Scary !!

[WOMBAI]

WOBBLE is the voice of the New Ecstatics on here! lol

Exaggeration again - there are plenty on here who like Dave - we just aren't so quick to judge people as some!

[WOMBAI]

I was worried for a while there, I thought WOMBAI was the voice of the majority

They aren't the voice of the majority either!

[vesavius]

I honestly don't think BB is the place for anyone remotely religious, particularly for someone with a belief system like Dave.
Maybe Dave isn't pushing his beliefs onto other house mates, but C4 have most certainly, pushed his beliefs onto us, merely by letting him onto the show in the first place.
Is he comparable to Jim Jones, no not yet, more like Derek Achora. They both are very good at conning gullible/vulnerable people out of there money, and they have both spent so much time preaching that they have actually convinced themselves, to a certain extent.
Anyone who has looked at those videos or have read through those articles properly, should be able to see straight through Dave's act, WOMBAI you should have gone to specksavers.
I agree, his religion is not a dangerous cult as of yet, but it has the potential to be a serious threat and danger to any vulnerable people who get involved in it.
What i wonder is, is Dave the one doing the brainwashing, or has some one brainwashed him.
BTW I am using the term brainwashing literally

Nice post :thumbs:


(everyone please just ignore Wobble now? She obviously has nothing constructive to add and is just trying to derail the thread with her histrionics)

[WOMBAI]

Nice post :thumbs:


(everyone please just ignore Wobble now? She obviously has nothing constructive to add and is just trying to derail the thread with her histrionics)

Being just as childish as ever I see! :sleep:

[bansheewails]

I dont think Wombai is being childish in his defence of Dave. I think Dave genuniely believes in things he says.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I would never give anyone a hard time because of who they like on a tv show.

Not a Dave fan myself but can see why some people would like him.

[vesavius]

I dont think Wombai is being childish in his defence of Dave. I think Dave genuniely believes in things he says.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I would never give anyone a hard time because of who they like on a tv show.

Not a Dave fan myself but can see why some people would like him.

No, I agree, defence of Dave is valid if it can be supported- but it's not WHAT she is doing, it's HOW she is doing it.

[fingers]

I dont think Wombai is being childish in his defence of Dave. I think Dave genuniely believes in things he says.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I would never give anyone a hard time because of who they like on a tv show.

Not a Dave fan myself but can see why some people would like him.

Sorry but you have obviously not clicked on any links have you?

http://themysticbiscuit.wordpress.com/2010/06/29/big-brothers-dave-in-his-day-job/

http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/category/dave-vaughan/

[fingers]

No, I agree, defence of Dave is valid if it can be supported- but it's not WHAT she is doing, it's HOW she is doing it.

Unfortunately, I have yet to see anything that refutes what we've been posting.

Just insults and name calling!

[bansheewails]

I don't click on the posts because I judge them for what I watch on the TV, thats it. I don't care if they were a shaman white witch warlock loving horse shagger on the outside., its how they behave on the show.

I have no right to judge a Housemates personal life, but when they agree to appear on the show they are fair game on their behaviour in there. Just the way I am.

[fingers]

I don't click on the posts because I judge them for what I watch on the TV, thats it. I don't care if they were a shaman white witch warlock loving horse shagger on the outside., its how they behave on the show.

I have no right to judge a Housemates personal life, but when they agree to appear on the show they are fair game on their behaviour in there. Just the way I am.

OH well, must be nice in that ivory castle?

You might be surprised when you come down into the real world!

[WOMBAI]

No, I agree, defence of Dave is valid if it can be supported- but it's not WHAT she is doing, it's HOW she is doing it.

And how is she doing it exactly - wasn't me who started calling people childish names such as plonker (Peter) and wobby (me) - note you don't comment on that!
__________________

[Late for the Party]

I'm not sure if people realize that the majority of the anti-Dave sentiment is 100% justified.
Most of us have read what Dave, himself posted on the internet, and then judged him accordingly.
If you haven't read any of the articles, I suggest you do, and then try to defend him.

[vesavius]

I have no right to judge a Housemates personal life, but when they agree to appear on the show they are fair game on their behaviour in there. Just the way I am.

And thats fine for you, no one dictates how you watch the show :)

For me, and others, tho, as soon as they go into that house the knowingly become public property and all aspects of their lives are open for debate. They all knew this when they went in and all made the choice to still do so. If I went in I would expect the same, for sure.

If I don't believe in their agenda, and I do believe honestly Dave has an agenda, then I won't support them as a HM.

I genuinaly took the time to research his cult. I am not religious and have no personal problem with those that have faith (in fact, I often admire it) and I didn start off with a problem with Dave on any level.

The only reason I even started this thread was because of what I read, watched, learned.

[bansheewails]

OH well, must be nice in that ivory castle?

You might be surprised when you come down into the real world!


http://www.needleart.org/Scoular/Rapunzel.gif

Here I've let my hair down, come on up. Its nice up here!

[vesavius]

I'm not sure if people realize that the majority of the anti-Dave sentiment is 100% justified.
Most of us have read what Dave, himself posted on the internet, and then judged him accordingly.

just literally hit post on saying pretty much the same thing :)

[vesavius]

http://www.needleart.org/Scoular/Rapunzel.gif

Here I've let my hair down, come on up. Its nice up here!

;)

[Late for the Party]

just literally hit post on saying pretty much the same thing :)

Snap:hugesmile:

[chuff me dizzy]

I'm not sure if people realize that the majority of the anti-Dave sentiment is 100% justified.
Most of us have read what Dave, himself posted on the internet, and then judged him accordingly.
If you haven't read any of the articles, I suggest you do, and then try to defend him.

There is not a sect that can be defended ,they are dangerous and run by crooks,not "Men of God"

[fingers]

His affected wheezing and Good Bhwoy, Good Bhwoy, are an adopted trait to portay him as a lovable character, which he most definitely is NOT>

[bansheewails]

And thats fine for you, no one dictates how you watch the show :)

For me, and others, tho, as soon as they go into that house the knowingly become public property and all aspects of their lives are open for debate. They all knew this when they went in and all made the choice to still do so. If I went in I would expect the same, honestly.

If I don't believe in their agenda, and I do believe honestly Dave has an agenda, then I won't support them as a HM.

I honestly took the time to research his cult. I am not religious and have no personal problem with those that have faith (in fact, I often admire it) and I didn start boff with a problem with Dave on any level.

The only reason I even started this thread was because of what I read, watched, learned.

But another poster should not be vilified for not agreeing with those sentiments. We all watch the shows in different ways. We all could watch the exact same clip from big brother and come away with different point of views.

Dave marketed himself as a holy spirit drunk monk going into the house. He is keen to discuss those beliefs with housemates who listen with rapt attention not asking questions, (ie. Mario and Corin) but when Caoimhe and Josie ask him questions he says they are hounding him.

That is the reason I dislike him, that and the fact he is like wormtongue in Lord of the Rings, whispering in Bens ear about other housemates.

But I am not going to call someone names or make a laughing stock out of them if they disagree with my views.

[fingers]

But another poster should not be vilified for not agreeing with those sentiments. We all watch the shows in different ways. We all could watch the exact same clip from big brother and come away with different point of views.

Dave marketed himself as a holy spirit drunk monk going into the house. He is keen to discuss those beliefs with housemates who listen with rapt attention not asking questions, (ie. Mario and Corin) but when Caoimhe and Josie ask him questions he says they are hounding him.

That is the reason I dislike him, that and the fact he is like wormtongue in Lord of the Rings, whispering in Bens ear about other housemates.

But I am not going to call someone names or make a laughing stock out of them if they disagree with my views.

It's your choice, either you accept the BB portrayal or you learn the truth, not our problem.

[vesavius]

But another poster should not be vilified for not agreeing with those sentiments.

No, but she wasnt.

She was attacked not for what she said but how she said it.

Her first and last resort to personal attacks bought the same back I am afraid :/

[WOMBAI]

It's your choice, either you accept the BB portrayal or you learn the truth, not our problem.

You take yourself way too seriously! :sleep:

[WOMBAI]

No, but she wasnt.

She was attacked not for what she said but how she said it.

Her first and last resort to personal attacks bought the same back I am afraid :/

It wasn't me doing the attacking - you two were attacking and making fun of anyone (calling them childish names) who challenged your narrow-minded views on Dave! Clear case of dishing it out, but not being able to take it!

[fingers]

Without trying to sound bigheaded!!!! I feel that WOMBLE will be posting the usual sh!t about me?

[WOMBAI]

Without trying to sound bigheaded!!!! I feel that WOMBLE will be posting the usual sh!t about me?

:sleep: Bet your having a peek - can't resist the temptation to see what I might be saying, hey! Ha, ha !

[vesavius]

Without trying to sound bigheaded!!!! I feel that WOMBLE will be posting the usual sh!t about me?

Dont even sweat it, I just tune her ranting nonsense out. :)

[WOMBAI]

Dont even sweat it, I just tune her ranting nonsense out. :)

:joker:

[fingers]

St. Dave now doing his "Father Confessor " act with JJ in the Bathroom!!

[vesavius]

St. Dave now doing his "Father Confessor " act with JJ in the Bathroom!!

It's part of how he grooms people.

[CaudleHalbard]

It's part of how he grooms people.

Well he hasn't been very successful in the BB house has he? :D

[fingers]

Well he hasn't been very successful in the BB house has he? :D

Dunno about the house, but he has won a couple of forummers to his cause!

[CaudleHalbard]

Dunno about the house, but he has won a couple of forummers to his cause!


Well I hope they'll donate generously!

I doubt he gets much from the other ex-druggies and ex-alkies who make up his merry band of brothers! Lol! :D

[fingers]

I bet St Dave wishes he had never gone into this with JJ!!!

[vesavius]

Well he hasn't been very successful in the BB house has he? :D

why do you think he owns a cult and not a religion :joker:

[fingers]

why do you think he owns a cult and not a religion :joker:
If he had the intelligence of L. Ron Hubbard he'd invent a religion.

[fingers]

Funny how the wheezing monk is not wheezing at the moment!

AND no Good Bhwoy, Good Bhwoy for ages!