OK Lets get it straight - Dave is NOT an ordained minister

[Abhorsen]

Look, all this crap about Dave being a minister is rubbish. He is NOT.

He tells everyone he is a Minster with a ministry and implies to everyone (also by dressing in a monk's outfit etc.) that he is ordained, he isn't.

You can't just dress in a fancy dress monk outfit and become a 'minister' as Dave is suggesting. And use it to con money out of people, like Dave does is repulsive, just like he is in fact.

He is a con.

And his stupid 'drunk on the lord' act looks like a pervy wanker.

[BB_Eye]

Not a Dave fan, but doesn't it just basically mean he runs his own "denomination" as opposed to being a minister for another larger denomination like the Catholic church or Church of England?

[fingers]

Look, all this crap about Dave being a minister is rubbish. He is NOT.

He tells everyone he is a Minster with a ministry and implies to everyone (also by dressing in a monk's outfit etc.) that he is ordained, he isn't.

You can't just dress in a fancy dress monk outfit and become a 'minister' as Dave is suggesting. And use it to con money out of people, like Dave does is repulsive, just like he is in fact.

He is a con.

And his stupid 'drunk on the lord' act looks like a pervy wanker.

He has jumped on the American Bandwaggon of born again looneys and said I am a minister three times while levitating and travelling to the sun and (unfortunately) back!:wavey:

[WOMBAI]

Look, all this crap about Dave being a minister is rubbish. He is NOT.

He tells everyone he is a Minster with a ministry and implies to everyone (also by dressing in a monk's outfit etc.) that he is ordained, he isn't.

You can't just dress in a fancy dress monk outfit and become a 'minister' as Dave is suggesting. And use it to con money out of people, like Dave does is repulsive, just like he is in fact.

He is a con.

And his stupid 'drunk on the lord' act looks like a pervy wanker.

You don't have to be ordained to call yourself a minister of the church - I posted some info about that on a thread a couple of days ago! So this about him being a conman is down to opinion, not fact!

[fingers]

Not a Dave fan, but doesn't it just basically mean he runs his own "denomination" as opposed to being a minister for another larger denomination like the Catholic church or Church of England?

Not really, he is a Charlatan conning people out of money to finance his lifestyle and trips to far away places!

[WOMBAI]

Not really, he is a Charlatan conning people out of money to finance his lifestyle and trips to far away places!

In your opinion, nothing more!

[johnx]

Of course he can be ordained in his own sect.Dont mess with the New Ecstatics.

[BB_Eye]

Not really, he is a Charlatan conning people out of money to finance his lifestyle and trips to far away places!

I'm just confused as to how someone qualifies as an "ordained minister". Do you have to be recognised by a religious institution and if so, which ones have the authority to say in law, that their ministers are legitimate? The line between an established religion and a cult is tenuous afterall.

[Abhorsen]

Not a Dave fan, but doesn't it just basically mean he runs his own "denomination" as opposed to being a minister for another larger denomination like the Catholic church or Church of England?

Dave cannot run his own denomination (in the way he suggests). See below. Otherwise the term becomes pointless - like everyone attending a church would have their own 'denomination'. It wouldn't make any sense to use it in the context Dave does.
A religious denomination is a subgroup within a religion that operates under a common name, tradition, and identity.


Dave clearly wants people to think he is a *proper* minister, not like some nut who shouts off street corners! He is trying to make HMs and other people believe he is part of a bigger, official church, when in fact he is just a nut.

a minister is someone who is authorized by a church or religious organization to perform clergy functions such as teaching of beliefs; performing services such as weddings, baptisms or funerals; or otherwise providing spiritual guidance to the community.

Therefore, Dave is a fraud and making money out of his lies.

[chuff me dizzy]

He keeps saying hes a man of the cloth,he is not,hes a Charlatan

[fingers]

He keeps saying hes a man of the cloth,he is not,hes a Charlatan

He does seem to throw that term into conversations quite regularly, I wonder why? it is patently untrue, he has merely adopted the "title" of minister like his looney friends in America. Next thing you know he'll be selling "Doctorates" on his website!:hugesmile:

[Abhorsen]

I'm just confused as to how someone qualifies as an "ordained minister". Do you have to be recognised by a religious institution and if so, which ones have the authority to say in law, that their ministers are legitimate? The line between an established religion and a cult is tenuous afterall.

Dave states clearly that he is a "Christian Minister" SEE BB OFFICIAL PROFILE.
This ex-postman / ex-pest controller is now a Christian Minister who lives at home with his wife of 17 years along with his four kids, three dogs, six chickens and lots of rabbits.

http://www.channel4.com/bigbrother/housemate/dave/profile/display.c4

As Dave says he is a "Christian Minister" he IS saying that he is ordained by the church (which he would have to be to call himself a "Christian Minister") AND THAT MEANS HE IS LYING - AS HE IS NOT ORDAINED BY THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordained_minister

[Abhorsen]

He keeps saying hes a man of the cloth,he is not,hes a Charlatan

You're totally wrong. Dave clearly calls himself a Christian Minister. Not just a slang term.

[johnx]

Far as I know anyone can start a Protestant Christian Church-and many do.Just give it some title like Pentycostal 5th Day Adventists-find a hall and off you go.

[Livia]

Same old threads every day, but worded slightly differently.

[Josy]

Same old threads every day, but worded slightly differently.

This.

Same **** different day...........

[fingers]

Same old threads every day, but worded slightly differently.


Simple solution DON'T open them. DON't keep posting to them!

Is that so difficult to comprehend?

[fingers]

Far as I know anyone can start a Protestant Christian Church-and many do.Just give it some title like Pentycostal 5th Day Adventists-find a hall and off you go.

St' Dave hasn't even got a hall, he uses a website to rake in "Donations"!

[ElProximo]

Look, all this crap about Dave being a minister is rubbish. He is NOT.

He tells everyone he is a Minster with a ministry and implies to everyone (also by dressing in a monk's outfit etc.) that he is ordained, he isn't.

You can't just dress in a fancy dress monk outfit and become a 'minister' as Dave is suggesting. And use it to con money out of people, like Dave does is repulsive, just like he is in fact.

He is a con.

And his stupid 'drunk on the lord' act looks like a pervy wanker.

There is no reason to believe any of this is an act or con,
but,
To the best of my knowledge (unless something changed since then) he is not an ordained minister.

The rules and laws and ideas of this do seem to be a bit different from country to state to province,
but,
the basic idea is that an ordained minister is someone who deemed so by an accredited institution (seminary, uni, college),
and,
Is then hired by some legally recognized religious organization.

Now here is the other thing to this and look at a comparison:
- You can (at least in my country as one example) you CAN call yourself a Therapist. You are NOT allowed to call yourself a 'psychologist' but anyone can decide to offer therapy. They are a 'Therapist' whenever anyone decides to pay them money for whatever therapy they offer.

David (at least the last I knew) is in a position something like that where he is just deciding to work full-time 'ministering'.
Therefore he is a 'minister'.

But I don't know the exact ways all the laws and such work in the UK (or anywhere) as they are often different from place to place and then you get even more complicated when you have something like this 'International Ministry' which is headquartered in the US of A.

Anyways.. point being that David is a Minister in the same way I am a 'Teacher' because someone wants me to teach them to play guitar,
or,
You become a Therapist if you hang a shingle on your spare bedroom saying 'Therapist' and people choose you for it.

Oh.. David participates in Seminars put on by the cult. Seminars and 'Workshops'.

As for him making money.. maybe they are getting bigger now but for the most part they just don't make money doing this. He could make far more money selling insurance.
If he was a 'con-man' he would be way better off making much more cash as a 'Ghost Medium' or just scamming public assistance.

[fingers]

View more of ST. Daves words of wisdom here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utyQLbtlv8U

And if you have the stomach for them there are umpteen more via that link!

[chuff me dizzy]

You don't have to be ordained to call yourself a minister of the church - I posted some info about that on a thread a couple of days ago! So this about him being a conman is down to opinion, not fact!

When he takes money from cancer victims claiming to cure them when he certainly cannot is FRAUD

[chuff me dizzy]

You're totally wrong. Dave clearly calls himself a Christian Minister. Not just a slang term.

I have heard him say ,hes a man of the cloth ,he entered the house in a moks costume, he certainly isnt one of them either

[BB_Eye]

Dave states clearly that he is a "Christian Minister" SEE BB OFFICIAL PROFILE.

http://www.channel4.com/bigbrother/housemate/dave/profile/display.c4

As Dave says he is a "Christian Minister" he IS saying that he is ordained by the church (which he would have to be to call himself a "Christian Minister") AND THAT MEANS HE IS LYING - AS HE IS NOT ORDAINED BY THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordained_minister

But the thing is no minister is ordained or qualified by an all-ecompassing "Christian church". There is no sole Christian authority and never has been since the East/West schism where the Roman church was divided into Catholicism in the West and Orthodox Christianity in the East. A Catholic minister is approved by an authority answerable to the Pope, a protestant minister is ordained by the Church of England or a methodist, Lutheran, episcopalian or Southern baptist authority and so on.

So many sects and subdivisions. I am asking where do they end and the cults begin? Even with larger denominations, you have disagreements over the ordination of female ministers and homosexuality. Does this make liberal ministers illegitimate? I for one would take issue with that notion.

Make no mistake, I am extremely wary of cults, their brainwashing practises and the sorts of narcissistic fantasists they appoint as their leaders. But that doesn't answer my question of what officially qualifies as a minister if there is no all-encompassing unitary authority on what does and doesn't qualify as a Christian and if I am not mistaken, this is Dave's own church (or cult, whatever you want to call it) we're talking about and he is answerable to himself. Strictly speaking, aren't the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Pope ministers themselves?

[ElProximo]

Dave states clearly that he is a "Christian Minister" SEE BB OFFICIAL PROFILE.

As Dave says he is a "Christian Minister" he IS saying that he is ordained by the church (which he would have to be to call himself a "Christian Minister") AND THAT MEANS HE IS LYING - AS HE IS NOT ORDAINED BY THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH.


No.
He says he is a Minister. This DOES NOT 'mean' he has called himself an Ordained Minister.
I can call myself a Therapist and this DOES NOT MEAN that I have claimed to be a Registered Therapist.

As someone else pointed out - there is not any one 'Christian Church' in any worldly sense quantifiable by earthly authorities.

This is a bit interesting though because 'Ordained' itself can be used in the sense that his organization can 'ordain him'.
You can be 'ordained' a moderator of TiBB and you can rightly call yourself an 'Ordained Moderator',
but,
In this topic my understanding is that everyone here is thinking of 'Ordained' in the sense of having a state-recognized diploma from an accredited institute and ordained 'professionally' by a state-recognized and registered religious org and granted the legal rights due like ability to perform government-recognized marriages, prison and hospital rights etc.

But anyways.. you have some real problems grasping logic and it almost seems like you want to hurt non-religious people by insisting David is one of them and ripping off and conning religious people.
To convince us non-religious or atheist types are all scam artists or liars I suppose?
What is your game here?

[flamingGalah!]

You don't have to be ordained to call yourself a minister of the church - I posted some info about that on a thread a couple of days ago! So this about him being a conman is down to opinion, not fact!

Of course he is a con man!! He claims to be able to cure cancer FFS!!!! :nono:

Oh & for a "donation" too...

[flamingGalah!]

This.

Same **** different day...........

:sleep: No ones forcing you to read them or to comment... :sleep:

[yousoboo!]

Dave is just a washed out ex junkie who still needs some sort of addiction in his life

[chuff me dizzy]

Of course he is a con man!! He claims to be able to cure cancer FFS!!!! :nono:

Oh & for a "donation" too...

A big enough donation to send his kids to private school ,I would like to know if he declares these back-handers to the dhss ?

[ElProximo]

Of course he is a con man!! He claims to be able to cure cancer FFS!!!! :nono:

Oh & for a "donation" too...

You are wrong on two levels.
He actually believes people can be cured of cancer through him or others in his org. He believes that so it is not a 'con'.
(or you may say that if there is a 'con' then he is one being conned and not conning),
and,
No, he doesn't do it for donations. You just made that up and wrote it from your own imagination.

[ElProximo]

Dave is just a washed out ex junkie who still needs some sort of addiction in his life

Exactly right. He replaced one for another. Chemical induced for physiologically induced.
You got it.

[flamingGalah!]

You are wrong on two levels.
He actually believes people can be cured of cancer through him or others in his org. He believes that so it is not a 'con'.
(or you may say that if there is a 'con' then he is one being conned and not conning),
and,
No, he doesn't do it for donations. You just made that up and wrote it from your own imagination.

No, once again YOU are wrong... If he believes he can cure cancer or not is not the issue, he CANNOT cure it can he??!!??!! What the ****** is so difficult about that to understand... :sleep:

And he DOES receive donations, he said so himself... Try watching the show before coming up with silly comments... :nono:

[WOMBAI]

Of course he is a con man!! He claims to be able to cure cancer FFS!!!! :nono:

Oh & for a "donation" too...

If he genuinely believes that - then he isn't a conman! I don't believe that - in my book, only the appropriate medical treatment can do that, but if that is what he believes ...! You may think he is mad - doesn't make him a conman!

And donations would, I assume, be given for many reasons - but unless someone has specifically said money has changed hands directly for ''God's treatment' for cancer - that is just speculation!

[Josy]

:sleep: No ones forcing you to read them or to comment... :sleep:

You should actually take heed of your own advice, no one forces you to argue, but lo and behold if theres an argument on here, your guaranteed to be there insulting other members because they disagree with your opinion............ :bored:

[eviled2010]

"Ordained" or "Unordained", it's all a lot of supernatural BS.

[flamingGalah!]

You should actually take heed of your own advice, no one forces you to argue, but lo and behold if theres an argument on here, your guaranteed to be there insulting other members because they disagree with your opinion............ :bored:

:sleep: Did you say something?? :sleep:

[WOMBAI]

A big enough donation to send his kids to private school ,I would like to know if he declares these back-handers to the dhss ?

You keep mentioning private schools for his children - where is the evidence that his children go to private school? Has he said so, is there something on the net?

[Shasown]

If he genuinely believes that - then he isn't a conman! I don't believe that - in my book, only the appropriate medical treatment can do that, but if that is what he believes ...! You may think he is mad - doesn't make him a conman!

And donations would, I assume, be given for many reasons - but unless someone has specifically said money has changed hands directly for ''God's treatment' for cancer - that is just speculation!

Spontaneous recovery (without any treatment) is not an unknown occurrence, nor is recovery following some sort of religious event/ceremony. That is not to say God or any particular person actually played a part in the recovery. Belief in getting well is a significant factor in any medical condition.

[WOMBAI]

Spontaneous recovery (without any treatment) is not an unknown occurrence, nor is recovery following some sort of religious event/ceremony. That is not to say God or any particular person actually played a part in the recovery. Belief in getting well is a significant factor in any medical condition.

I am a firm believer in the power of the mind and the placebo effect! And this is, no doubt, where much talk of 'miracles' comes from!

[Shasown]

And he DOES receive donations, he said so himself... Try watching the show before coming up with silly comments... :nono:

If you believe that, then report him to the Inland Revenue for Tax Fraud or failing to declare his income. Even donations have to be declared as taxable income. Or then again you could provide real verifiable proof that he does actually do what you claim he does.

[Shasown]

I am a firm believer in the power of the mind and the placebo effect! And this is, no doubt, where much talk of 'miracles' comes from!

No doubt? I wish I could be as sure. But yes the power of the mind is in some cases quite considerable.

Is it possible then that someone believing in his supposed power could be cured by the power of their belief in his ability even though he has no real ability? In which case could it considered that he is the placebo, or a catalyst in their recovery?

[fingers]

If you believe that, then report him to the Inland Revenue for Tax Fraud or failing to declare his income. Even donations have to be declared as taxable income. Or then again you could provide real verifiable proof that he does actually do what you claim he does.

He is not a stupid man, far from it, I'm sure that all "donations" go into a "Tax Exempt" account set up for that purpose.

[WOMBAI]

No doubt? I wish I could be as sure. But yes the power of the mind is in some cases quite considerable.

Is it possible then that someone believing in his supposed power could be cured by the power of their belief in his ability even though he has no real ability? In which case could it considered that he is the placebo, or a catalyst in their recovery?

That is a difficult question - and one we will probably never know the answer to! If someone believes enough - who knows. People have indeed made 'miraculous' recoveries from disease and injury - but the reasons why may forever remain a mystery! Just one of those things that can't be proven one way or the other!

[ElProximo]

No, once again YOU are wrong... If he believes he can cure cancer or not is not the issue, he CANNOT cure it can he??!!??!! What the ****** is so difficult about that to understand... :sleep:

And he DOES receive donations, he said so himself... Try watching the show before coming up with silly comments... :nono:

You are still wrong. If someone believes they can cure cancer and they fail then they are mistake and wrong but not 'con men'.
IF we used your 'thinking' then millions of students are 'con men' for writing incorrect answers on their maths exams this year.
Now you tell me what is so difficult to understand about that?

He NEVER said he cures cancer for donations. That was the stupid claim made up here.
Now your informing us he DOES receive donations. Right.
He doesn't receive donations FOR or IN EXCHANGE for a cancer healing.

wow.. what is wrong with you?
Seriously (not flaming) but do you have some kind of mental issue you deal with?

[flamingGalah!]

If you believe that, then report him to the Inland Revenue for Tax Fraud or failing to declare his income. Even donations have to be declared as taxable income. Or then again you could provide real verifiable proof that he does actually do what you claim he does.

I said he said so himself, of course I don't have access to his books, what a ridiculous thing to say... :rolleyes:

[flamingGalah!]

You are still wrong. If someone believes they can cure cancer and they fail then they are mistake and wrong but not 'con men'.
IF we used your 'thinking' then millions of students are 'con men' for writing incorrect answers on their maths exams this year.
Now you tell me what is so difficult to understand about that?

He NEVER said he cures cancer for donations. That was the stupid claim made up here.
Now your informing us he DOES receive donations. Right.
He doesn't receive donations FOR or IN EXCHANGE for a cancer healing.

wow.. what is wrong with you?
Seriously (not flaming) but do you have some kind of mental issue you deal with?

Wow making no sense at all AND a personal insult... :sleep: