If Dave was Muslim...

[MargeryFan]

Would everyone be challenging him so much over the gay marriage thing? I think not. It's quite likely that people would accept that he is muslim and has his beliefs. Christians are constantly challenged and ridiculed in this country. Why can't people just accept Dave for who he is? He is not homophobic he is human and he has a right to not be touched up my mario if he doesn't want to be just like any other housemate.

Do you really give a **** anyway or is it just another reason to hate dave??

[mikopale]

Would everyone be challenging him so much over the gay marriage thing? I think not. It's quite likely that people would accept that he is muslim and has his beliefs. Christians are constantly challenged and ridiculed in this country. Why can't people just accept Dave for who he is? He is not homophobic he is human and he has a right to not be touched up my mario if he doesn't want to be just like any other housemate.

Do you really give a **** anyway or is it just another reason to hate dave??

Well said

[InOne]

If he was muslim I'd be raising hell on this forum.

[King Gizzard]

Very very very true :) Think you will hit a brick wall with this lot though unfortunately

[MargeryFan]

Cheers people, glad I'm not the only one that sees the hypocrisy.

[oddballmisfitsFTW]

Would everyone be challenging him so much over the gay marriage thing? I think not. It's quite likely that people would accept that he is muslim and has his beliefs. Christians are constantly challenged and ridiculed in this country. Why can't people just accept Dave for who he is? He is not homophobic he is human and he has a right to not be touched up my mario if he doesn't want to be just like any other housemate.

Do you really give a **** anyway or is it just another reason to hate dave??


EXACTAMUNDO :thumbs:

[Bigbrofan25]

Cheers people, glad I'm not the only one that sees the hypocrisy.

I was raised as catholic and I am pro gay and support gay marriage

Christians have a right to their views but it cannot and should not be one sided

[calyman]

OP you are really scraping the barrel. Homophobia is still homophpbia however you want to present it. Christianity and Islam are both bastions of Homophobia. I see no difference in their bigotry. Much as you seem to want to muddy the water and dissemble with dubious comparisons, the fact is you have no argument.

What you do present though, is that it is acceptable for religious organisations to be homophobic, it is okay for practioners of such religions to hide behind their "belief" to promote their homophbia and that the rest of us should not see this as a reason not to "hate" Dave.

I try to keep a clear aspect to this, I don't hate this religious homophobe, I just don't have any respect for him, or for people like him, who share such ingrained bigotry and duplicity. I also don't invent reasons to promote any hatred and bigotry, I just see it where it occurs.

[rick-roll]

I think all religions should be challenged and mocked.....Hitchens style!

[stonedape]

How can we be accused of hypocrisy before it even happens, based on your guess of how we'd react?

If it were a Muslim who held these beliefs I'd feel exactly the same way. This argument is especially weak given Islam and Christianity are as alike as two major religions can get.

[MargeryFan]

How can we be accused of hypocrisy before it even happens, based on your guess of how we'd react?

If it were a Muslim who held these beliefs I'd feel exactly the same way. This argument is especially weak given Islam and Christianity are as alike as two major religions can get.

It has already happened. We have had muslim contestants before that were never attacked on the issue as much by the general public.

[oddballmisfitsFTW]

Lucifer is so much cooler than God and Jesus

God is just a grumpy pants and Jesus just a hippy

Lucifer is enlightened and loves to have sex fests :elephant:

also did you know there are some people who believe Jesus and Lucifer are actually one and the same and became 2 separate people by early Christian leaders :shocked:

[MargeryFan]

OP you are really scraping the barrel. Homophobia is still homophpbia however you want to present it. Christianity and Islam are both bastions of Homophobia. I see no difference in their bigotry. Much as you seem to want to muddy the water and dissemble with dubious comparisons, the fact is you have no argument.

What you do present though, is that it is acceptable for religious organisations to be homophobic, it is okay for practioners of such religions to hide behind their "belief" to promote their homophbia and that the rest of us should not see this as a reason not to "hate" Dave.

I try to keep a clear aspect to this, I don't hate this religious homophobe, I just don't have any respect for him, or for people like him, who share such ingrained bigotry and duplicity. I also don't invent reasons to promote any hatred and bigotry, I just see it where it occurs.

It's not a question of homophobia IMO no Christian that I have met dislikes gay people. I am christian that is very accepting of gay people and like many others we are happy to admit that. It just turns out that nobody wants to believe us.:nono:

[rick-roll]

It's not a question of homophobia IMO no Christian that I have met dislikes gay people. I am christian that is very accepting of gay people and like many others we are happy to admit that. It just turns out that nobody wants to believe us.:nono:


Why would anyone care about your opinion on gays? You're not on TV.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

Lucifer is so much cooler than God and Jesus

God is just a grumpy pants and Jesus just a hippy

Lucifer is enlightened and loves to have sex fests :elephant:

also did you know there are some people who believe Jesus and Lucifer are actually one and the same and became 2 separate people by early Christian leaders :shocked:

:shocked:

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

if he was muslim i would sit on a pepper mill

[MargeryFan]

At the end of the day people forget that Dave hasn't actually said anything homophobic. He said he wouldn't personally marry a gay couple but really we know that it's nothing personal. He has been as good a friend to Mario as anyone else and it is evident that he is comfortable around gay people.What people fail to understand is that Christians are still human.

[MargeryFan]

Why would anyone care about your opinion on gays? You're not on TV.

:shocked: right.

[stonedape]

At the end of the day people forget that Dave hasn't actually said anything homophobic. He said he wouldn't personally marry a gay couple but really we know that it's nothing personal. He has been as good a friend to Mario as anyone else and it is evident that he is comfortable around gay people.What people fail to understand is that Christians are still human.

Fully aware they're still human, fully aware dave isn't homophobic. That doesn't make his opinion informed, or correct, or respectable in any way. He has a right to his opinion, he has a right to state his opinion, I have the right to say his opinion is ****, and around and round we go. Dave could be any religion, or have no religion, and his opinion on gay marriage would still be just as stupid.

[MargeryFan]

Fully aware they're still human, fully aware dave isn't homophobic. That doesn't make his opinion informed, or correct, or respectable in any way. He has a right to his opinion, he has a right to state his opinion, I have the right to say his opinion is ****, and around and round we go. Dave could be any religion, or have no religion, and his opinion on gay marriage would still be just as stupid.

But realistically does it even matter? He is as good a friend to a gay person as he would be if he was not Christian and gay people cannot marry anyway.

TBH my original point was really about whether people actually care because it seems to me people are just getting angry for the sake of getting angry.

Dave has never openly stood up and said I'm against this because he's clearly not. People dig and dig away at him about it but you can see he's not as bothered as most people seem to be.

[ElProximo]

Would everyone be challenging him so much over the gay marriage thing? I think not. It's quite likely that people would accept that he is muslim and has his beliefs. Christians are constantly challenged and ridiculed in this country. Why can't people just accept Dave for who he is? He is not homophobic he is human and he has a right to not be touched up my mario if he doesn't want to be just like any other housemate.

Do you really give a **** anyway or is it just another reason to hate dave??

It isn't just Muslims where we can make the comparison but there is a vast world of religions and cultures where homosexuality would be deemed something vile and disgusting,
perverted sexual disgrace,
some others would regard it as 'madness' same as finding a tribe member in love with a goat as if it were his wife or found shouting in circles all night.

In fact you could just take the 2 countries that by population make up a significant portion of the human population on Earth itself:
China:
There may very well be some homosexuals and some may meet somewhere and nobody is running around beating them nor are laws being made to catch them,
but,
for about 1.4 billion people that is considered something very 'weird' and some kind of shameful sex practice you don't want to really know about.
India:
About the same. Again, its not that you couldn't find some people who engage in homosexuality but it is not a 'caste' and generally speaking that is something 'weird' you don't want to admit to.

In fact, in our 'Global Village' THE VAST MAJORITY OF HUMAN CULTURES, RELIGIONS AND PEOPLES not only traditionally in their history but TODAY RIGHT NOW CURRENTLY see homosexuality as something ranging from a vile and evil disgusting act against nature,
to,
just some pervert sex you certainly would not qualify for marriage with.

Interestingly, there is just one place where homosexuality has largely been able to flourish and have actual 'rights' and freedoms,
and,
one place where homosexuals can have a loud uncensored voice.
Where is that?
In the most Christian countries on Earth.
in the countries with New Testament Christians heritage and 'founding philosophy'.
In the countries with the highest percentage of practicing Christians. Often with majorities of Christians.

This is not because Christianity 'likes homosexuality' either. its because Christianity has a unique 'worldview' and 'perspective' not found in many other places.
It is this idea we got from Jesus that says all people are equally valuable and equally flawed in some inherent sense,
and likewise:
- All people, regardless of their behavior are equally worthy to be saved and loved despite that.
It also has this notion that people ought to live 'freely' and not under the Law.
Keep in mind that doesn't mean what they DO FREELY is morally good for them either. This gets into 'law and grace' and lets not bother.

But yes, there is a real problem with intellectual and what we might call 'PC Hypocrisy'.
In fact I HATE ever using the word 'hypocrite' because it has been so over-used and abused as a term as to become meaningless now,
but,
in this case the OP is right-on that there is a kind of unfair discrimination, double-standard and many who will 'say' they don't judge peoples race and religion,
yet,
will zealously and apologetically except that rule in order to take a piece out of Christianity.

David is a nutter. He is a member of a cult that has done things to shame the Church at large and embarrass Christianity,
but,
one thing he has NOT done is show some 'homophobia' or any sort of unfair or 'hypocritical' judgments upon others here.

[stonedape]

But realistically does it even matter? He is as good a friend to a gay person as he would be if he was not Christian and gay people cannot marry anyway.

TBH my original point was really about whether people actually care because it seems to me people are just getting angry for the sake of getting angry.

Dave has never openly stood up and said I'm against this because he's clearly not. People dig and dig away at him about it but you can see he's not as bothered as most people seem to be.

People like Dave are the least of my concern in every day life. He's a very tolerant, nearly secular theist. But this is the BB House where not sharing crisps becomes a moral issue. I do think the opinion is ****, and he is up for eviction this week against 3 legends :thumbs:

[MargeryFan]

It isn't just Muslims where we can make the comparison but there is a vast world of religions and cultures where homosexuality would be deemed something vile and disgusting,
perverted sexual disgrace,
some others would regard it as 'madness' same as finding a tribe member in love with a goat as if it were his wife or found shouting in circles all night.

In fact you could just take the 2 countries that by population make up a significant portion of the human population on Earth itself:
China:
There may very well be some homosexuals and some may meet somewhere and nobody is running around beating them nor are laws being made to catch them,
but,
for about 1.4 billion people that is considered something very 'weird' and some kind of shameful sex practice you don't want to really know about.
India:
About the same. Again, its not that you couldn't find some people who engage in homosexuality but it is not a 'caste' and generally speaking that is something 'weird' you don't want to admit to.

In fact, in our 'Global Village' THE VAST MAJORITY OF HUMAN CULTURES, RELIGIONS AND PEOPLES not only traditionally in their history but TODAY RIGHT NOW CURRENTLY see homosexuality as something ranging from a vile and evil disgusting act against nature,
to,
just some pervert sex you certainly would not qualify for marriage with.

Interestingly, there is just one place where homosexuality has largely been able to flourish and have actual 'rights' and freedoms,
and,
one place where homosexuals can have a loud uncensored voice.
Where is that?
In the most Christian countries on Earth.
in the countries with New Testament Christians heritage and 'founding philosophy'.
In the countries with the highest percentage of practicing Christians. Often with majorities of Christians.

This is not because Christianity 'likes homosexuality' either. its because Christianity has a unique 'worldview' and 'perspective' not found in many other places.
It is this idea we got from Jesus that says all people are equally valuable and equally flawed in some inherent sense,
and likewise:
- All people, regardless of their behavior are equally worthy to be saved and loved despite that.
It also has this notion that people ought to live 'freely' and not under the Law.
Keep in mind that doesn't mean what they DO FREELY is morally good for them either. This gets into 'law and grace' and lets not bother.

But yes, there is a real problem with intellectual and what we might call 'PC Hypocrisy'.
In fact I HATE ever using the word 'hypocrite' because it has been so over-used and abused as a term as to become meaningless now,
but,
in this case the OP is right-on that there is a kind of unfair discrimination, double-standard and many who will 'say' they don't judge peoples race and religion,
yet,
will zealously and apologetically except that rule in order to take a piece out of Christianity.

David is a nutter. He is a member of a cult that has done things to shame the Church at large and embarrass Christianity,
but,
one thing he has NOT done is show some 'homophobia' or any sort of unfair or 'hypocritical' judgments upon others here.

WOW, good post.

[terryrow]

being a muslim is for life, not just for christmas. i am a hedonist and i enjoy it.

[setanta]

Not a bad point you've raised there OP. I mean, if another creed were to be attacked and ridiculed on the show due to their beliefs there would be hundreds, maybe even thousands of complaints registered to Big Brother. Yep, interesting comparison you've drawn there.

[WOMBAI]

Would everyone be challenging him so much over the gay marriage thing? I think not. It's quite likely that people would accept that he is muslim and has his beliefs. Christians are constantly challenged and ridiculed in this country. Why can't people just accept Dave for who he is? He is not homophobic he is human and he has a right to not be touched up my mario if he doesn't want to be just like any other housemate.

Do you really give a **** anyway or is it just another reason to hate dave??

Good post!

[WOMBAI]

People like Dave are the least of my concern in every day life. He's a very tolerant, nearly secular theist. But this is the BB House where not sharing crisps becomes a moral issue. I do think the opinion is ****, and he is up for eviction this week against 3 legends :thumbs:

Dave is a legend himself!

[MargeryFan]

Dave is a legend himself!

AGREED :xyxwave:

[psychtracker]

Would everyone be challenging him so much over the gay marriage thing? I think not. It's quite likely that people would accept that he is muslim and has his beliefs. Christians are constantly challenged and ridiculed in this country. Why can't people just accept Dave for who he is? He is not homophobic he is human and he has a right to not be touched up my mario if he doesn't want to be just like any other housemate.

Do you really give a **** anyway or is it just another reason to hate dave??

Yes, good points! Seems to me, from numerous comments i read on these boards - that there's a lot of people hypercritical of anything that Dave does simply because of religious beliefs. It'd be great if more people could judge him - firstly as a fellow human being - then on his beliefs.

[Hero1]

Would everyone be challenging him so much over the gay marriage thing? I think not. It's quite likely that people would accept that he is muslim and has his beliefs. Christians are constantly challenged and ridiculed in this country. Why can't people just accept Dave for who he is? He is not homophobic he is human and he has a right to not be touched up my mario if he doesn't want to be just like any other housemate.

Do you really give a **** anyway or is it just another reason to hate dave??

That is like saying does a black midget find more discrimination with being black or short, he would most probably tell you there is more support for his race than his height.

I do not even think Dave has a problem with people thinking his is homophobic, it is the problem of him setting up self ministry and making money out of God.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes, good points! Seems to me, from numerous comments i read on these boards - that there's a lot of people hypercritical of anything that Dave does simply because of religious beliefs. It'd be great if more people could judge him - firstly as a fellow human being - then on his beliefs.

Good

I am judging him on promoting lies in order to achieve status for personal gain


he, a grown man with children, lies about dreams and lies about a fictitious god who seems to condone what he wants done and then damn what he does not

therefore as a human being he is a liar and a braggard

[MargeryFan]

Good

I am judging him on promoting lies in order to achieve status for personal gain


he, a grown man with children, lies about dreams and lies about a fictitious god who seems to condone what he wants done and then damn what he does not

therefore as a human being he is a liar and a braggard

I believe he genuinely believes what he says, which to me is the most important thing to remember before calling someone a liar or a con.

[MargeryFan]

That is like saying does a black midget find more discrimination with being black or short, he would most probably tell you there is more support for his race than his height.

I do not even think Dave has a problem with people thinking his is homophobic, it is the problem of him setting up self ministry and making money out of God.

I agree with you to an extent, I think the underlying issue is his career/faith but to be honest it would have to take an incredible actor and a man with a heart of stone to do the things that he is being accused of, and from what I have seen from him in the big brother house, he does not seem capable of such crimes.

[WOMBAI]

Good

I am judging him on promoting lies in order to achieve status for personal gain


he, a grown man with children, lies about dreams and lies about a fictitious god who seems to condone what he wants done and then damn what he does not

therefore as a human being he is a liar and a braggard

You are a Christian aren't you LT - what makes your beliefs anymore valid than his? Is there only one narrow path that can be followed in order to practice said beliefs, is that set in stone? Surely it's what is in the heart - not how you go about it!

[psychtracker]

I believe he genuinely believes what he says, which to me is the most important thing to remember before calling someone a liar or a con.

EXACTLY. He may very well be self-deluded, but let us first get to know the person.

[MargeryFan]

Yes, good points! Seems to me, from numerous comments i read on these boards - that there's a lot of people hypercritical of anything that Dave does simply because of religious beliefs. It'd be great if more people could judge him - firstly as a fellow human being - then on his beliefs.

Cheers psychtracker, I agree completely. I don't know many people who like Dave that liked him from the very beginning. I myself was guilty of judging him somewhat when he first walked in but I realise now that he is just a genuinely nice person and I don;t believe there is reason to be suspicious of him.

[Livia]

Lucifer is so much cooler than God and Jesus

God is just a grumpy pants and Jesus just a hippy

Lucifer is enlightened and loves to have sex fests :elephant:

also did you know there are some people who believe Jesus and Lucifer are actually one and the same and became 2 separate people by early Christian leaders :shocked:

You understand that, to believe in Lucifer, you have to believe in God? Lucifer is an invention of the Bible, so if you believe in Lucifer (who was an angel cast out by God, allegedly) you're acknowledging your belief in God.

Lucifer appears first appears in Genesis, which is the Old Testament, so it's unlikely he would have been separated by "early Christian leaders" who are strictly New Testament.

You can't form a belief system from Wikipedia and watching bad movies. Although I do acknowledge that the majority of the Bible reads like a dodgy film script.

[Beso]

homophobia is a stupid word..It gets branded about to easily..Lots of people find the idea of a man inserting his cock into another mans anus absolutely disgusting, thats not being homophobic though, you can still like the two blokes doing it.

[ElProximo]

homophobia is a stupid word..It gets branded about to easily..Lots of people find the idea of a man inserting his cock into another mans anus absolutely disgusting, thats not being homophobic though, you can still like the two blokes doing it.


Pithy. Wonderfully, frightfully pithy and I wish I was able to put it so succinctly.
You did and so I will say 'this'.

[Beso]

Pithy. Wonderfully, frightfully pithy and I wish I was able to put it so succinctly.
You did and so I will say 'this'.

No point in beating about the bush (pardon the pun)

[Livia]

I'm not sure why people get so heated about what two adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom. I'm sure heterosexuals get up to stuff some people might find unsavory.

[charmingmissc]

Would everyone be challenging him so much over the gay marriage thing? I think not. It's quite likely that people would accept that he is muslim and has his beliefs. Christians are constantly challenged and ridiculed in this country. Why can't people just accept Dave for who he is? He is not homophobic he is human and he has a right to not be touched up my mario if he doesn't want to be just like any other housemate.

Do you really give a **** anyway or is it just another reason to hate dave??

very true, well said.

[Crimson Dynamo]

homophobia is a stupid word..It gets branded about to easily..Lots of people find the idea of a man inserting his cock into another mans anus absolutely disgusting, thats not being homophobic though, you can still like the two blokes doing it.

There are many things that humans do that I dislike, picking noses, eating bad food, eating in the street, men who act like women, men kissing, women who drink pints, anyone who obsesses about "fashion", people who like Eastenders

as long as it is the act you judge and not the whole person then all is well.

hating anyone is wrong.

[Beso]

There are many things that humans do that I dislike, picking noses, eating bad food, eating in the street, men who act like women, men kissing, women who drink pints, anyone who obsesses about "fashion", people who like Eastenders

as long as it is the act you judge and not the whole person then all is well.

hating anyone is wrong.

exactly.

Unless it's mr taylor, my old english teacher, he was a ****.:nono:

[MargeryFan]

There are many things that humans do that I dislike, picking noses, eating bad food, eating in the street, men who act like women, men kissing, women who drink pints, anyone who obsesses about "fashion", people who like Eastenders

as long as it is the act you judge and not the whole person then all is well.

hating anyone is wrong.

Very nicely put.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm not sure why people get so heated about what two adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom. I'm sure heterosexuals get up to stuff some people might find unsavory.

it is not that I think that is the issue it is the "lifestyle" that comes with it, the accent, the sex obsession, the hysterical attitude, the "act" that annoys people


gives the average gay a bad name

mainly found in London and in "entertainment"

think John barrowman

[MargeryFan]

very true, well said.

:blush: aww thanks!

[Livia]

it is not that I think that is the issue it is the "lifestyle" that comes with it, the accent, the sex obsession, the hysterical attitude, the "act" that annoys people


gives the average gay a bad name

mainly found in London and in "entertainment"

think John barrowman

Didn't you just say it's wrong to hate anyone? And what exactly is "the average gay"? You mean gays who act straight? I know plenty of heteros with a bit of a sex obsession and a hysterical attitude.

[MojoNixon]

Would everyone be challenging him so much over the gay marriage thing? I think not. It's quite likely that people would accept that he is muslim and has his beliefs. Christians are constantly challenged and ridiculed in this country. Why can't people just accept Dave for who he is? He is not homophobic he is human and he has a right to not be touched up my mario if he doesn't want to be just like any other housemate.

Do you really give a **** anyway or is it just another reason to hate dave??

Because it is popular to accuse christians about everything. In Iran, they hang homosexuals, but it guess it is OK, because "it's their culture".

[MargeryFan]

mainly found in London and in "entertainment"



:joker: nice use of quotation.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Didn't you just say it's wrong to hate anyone? And what exactly is "the average gay"? You mean gays who act straight? I know plenty of heteros with a bit of a sex obsession and a hysterical attitude.

and i would imagine them to be annoying

also not liking them is normal

not something-phobic

[Livia]

and i would imagine them to be annoying

also not liking them is normal

not something-phobic

Seems like you contradicted yourself. But, whatever...

[MojoNixon]

'We don't have any gays in Iran'

Iran president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad speaks at Columbia University 2007

[WOMBAI]

'We don't have any gays in Iran'

Iran president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad speaks at Columbia University 2007

Not ones that would dare admit it! :hugesmile: Death sentence for sure!

[Crimson Dynamo]

'We don't have any gays in Iran'

Iran president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad speaks at Columbia University 2007

but there are around 5% of the male population who accidentally find skin pencils up their main stopcock on a regular basis

[MojoNixon]

but there are around 5% of the male population who accidentally find skin pencils up their main stopcock on a regular basis

Tell that to Mr Khomeini or Ahmadinejad....