We don't want to fund the pope's visit.

[karezza]

Some 77% of Britons think taxpayers should not help pay for Pope Benedict XVI's visit to Scotland and England, a survey suggests.

An online poll of 2,005 adults issued by think tank Theos also found 79% had "no personal interest" in his visit.

:nono:

[icecakes]

Some 77% of Britons think taxpayers should not help pay for Pope Benedict XVI's visit to Scotland and England, a survey suggests.

An online poll of 2,005 adults issued by think tank Theos also found 79% had "no personal interest" in his visit.

:nono:

I heard the bbc are sending 400 people to cover the popes visit,now we know where the tv licence money goes :conf:

[LaLaLand]

I don't want to pay for him to come here. They should take the money out of the religious community, or expect him to visit for free.

Even better, don't let him come. There's a reason for that huge square in the Vatican City, for people to go and SEE THE POPE.

At the end of the day, it's my choice not to be religious so it should be my choice to pay or not.

[MTVN]

He's the head of state for the Vatican, they all have their trips funded

[Shaun]

Bigoted, corrupt douchebag in charge of a dated, stupid cult, with a penchant for condemning everyone to AIDS and rehabilitating paedophiles and Holocaust deniers.

Absolute disgrace of a man and of a religion.

[Chels]

My mate's got to go listen to him speak xD

[Stacey.]

Is there only one pope? I know this has been asked loads of times etc but I still don't actually know or can't remember what the answer was.

Also what do pope's do?

[setanta]

The chap is living in the dark ages and so is the Vatican. Cannot believe that it's still going ahead and I doubt very much if it'll be all plain sailing for him over there.

[MTVN]

Is there only one pope? I know this has been asked loads of times etc but I still don't actually know or can't remember what the answer was.

Also what do pope's do?

Yes, and then when he dies all the Cardinals at the Vatican elect a new one.

He basically has to define moral and religious issues to Roman Catholics as well as appointing Bishops, naming Saints, representing the Church abroad, provide the Catholic Church's views on current affairs etc.

The last Pope - John Paul II - was more popular than the current one

[InOne]

Is there only one pope? I know this has been asked loads of times etc but I still don't actually know or can't remember what the answer was.

Also what do pope's do?

He rides in a Pope Moblie and waves at people.

[Stacey.]

Yes, and then when he dies all the Cardinals at the Vatican elect a new one.

He basically has to define moral and religious issues to Roman Catholics as well as appointing Bishops, naming Saints, representing the Church abroad, provide the Catholic Church's views on current affairs etc.

The last Pope - John Paul II - was more popular than the current one

He rides in a Pope Moblie and waves at people.

LOL he sorta sounds funny.

And thanks :) I get it now.

[Lee.]

Some 77% of Britons think taxpayers should not help pay for Pope Benedict XVI's visit to Scotland and England, a survey suggests.

An online poll of 2,005 adults issued by think tank Theos also found 79% had "no personal interest" in his visit.

:nono:

:wavey: That's me.

[BB_Eye]

He is meant to be a guest of honour like a lot of heads of state from different countries who visit. What I can't fathom is what this Pope has done to be 'honoured'.

[ElProximo]

If you had zero interest in Roman Catholicism you should, at least, be excited about the big economic boost it will bring. Good for business if nothing else.

Having said that, he is the head of a state and gets the usual accommodations, security, etc.
In fact, many a celebrity gets this kind of consideration including ones i don't give a damn about.
Many a politician gets all these considerations.
IF Richard Dawkins becomes head of state or brings millions to an event then he will get these considerations.

[MTVN]

If you had zero interest in Roman Catholicism you should, at least, be excited about the big economic boost it will bring. Good for business if nothing else.

Having said that, he is the head of a state and gets the usual accommodations, security, etc.
In fact, many a celebrity gets this kind of consideration including ones i don't give a damn about.
Many a politician gets all these considerations.
IF Richard Dawkins becomes head of state or brings millions to an event then he will get these considerations.

Yep, he's just entitled to the same benefits that any head of state gets

[BBfan46]

How about we send Kerry Katona to Vatican City for a week and they can fund that?

[ElProximo]

How about we send Kerry Katona to Vatican City for a week and they can fund that?

The Vatican funds millions of visitors, guests, celebrities, heads of states and even non-religious UK citizens every year.

So I guess we are all even.

[BB_Eye]

If you had zero interest in Roman Catholicism you should, at least, be excited about the big economic boost it will bring. Good for business if nothing else.

Having said that, he is the head of a state and gets the usual accommodations, security, etc.
In fact, many a celebrity gets this kind of consideration including ones i don't give a damn about.
Many a politician gets all these considerations.
IF Richard Dawkins becomes head of state or brings millions to an event then he will get these considerations.
I just think we could be more discriminating when it comes to receiving our 'guests of honour'. Nobody is forcing the government to play nice when a head of state comes to visit. There was understandable controversy when Augusto Pinochet and Robert Mugabe were treated as guests by Thatcher and Blair respectively. Both should have been placed under arrest for human rights violations.

[setanta]

If you had zero interest in Roman Catholicism you should, at least, be excited about the big economic boost it will bring. Good for business if nothing else.

Having said that, he is the head of a state and gets the usual accommodations, security, etc.
In fact, many a celebrity gets this kind of consideration including ones i don't give a damn about.
Many a politician gets all these considerations.
IF Richard Dawkins becomes head of state or brings millions to an event then he will get these considerations.

Nah, not with you on this one. It's costing 20million or so, plus people are being asked to "contribute" by handing over 25 quid or so to attend some of the open air masses.

And then the controversy that's going on within the Catholic Church and the Popes declarations on many issues will cause justifiably harsh protestations from some groups. It's just an accident waiting to happen.

[ElProximo]

Nah, not with you on this one. It's costing 20million or so, plus people are being asked to "contribute" by handing over 25 quid or so to attend some of the open air masses.

And then the controversy that's going on within the Catholic Church and the Popes declarations on many issues will cause justifiably harsh protestations from some groups. It's just an accident waiting to happen.

People who go and pay to attend the events are on their own so that is neither her nor there,
but,
20 million is not a lot for a massive thing like this. It's no more or less than you would get if Obama was doing a similar route and events.
Just wrap your head around what the Olympics will cost never mind the pope.

There isn't a controversy going on in the Catholic Church but a huge number of Brits are Catholics.
Sure, not all Brits are Catholics but there is some national systems to avoid controversies.
Plenty of us could not give a flying *** about (for example) hosting a World Cup or parading the team around,
but,
its a 'national event' sort of thing for a significant number of Brits who worship this type of thing - so its all done together.

Again - you can go to the Vatican and see mass amounts of non-Catholic Brits being hosted there.
Catholic and non-Catholic happy to have the security, lights turned on, etc etc.

[BB_Eye]

People who go and pay to attend the events are on their own so that is neither her nor there,
but,
20 million is not a lot for a massive thing like this. It's no more or less than you would get if Obama was doing a similar route and events.
Just wrap your head around what the Olympics will cost never mind the pope.

There isn't a controversy going on in the Catholic Church but a huge number of Brits are Catholics.
Sure, not all Brits are Catholics but there is some national systems to avoid controversies.
Plenty of us could not give a flying *** about (for example) hosting a World Cup or parading the team around,
but,
its a 'national event' sort of thing for a significant number of Brits who worship this type of thing - so its all done together.
There really isn't that many Catholics in the UK. They are a minority within a minority (churchgoers). Certainly less than there are muslims

Again - you can go to the Vatican and see mass amounts of non-Catholic Brits being hosted there.
Catholic and non-Catholic happy to have the security, lights turned on, etc etc.
Most of them are not interested in the Pope. It's more about the spectacle.

[ElProximo]

There really isn't that many Catholics in the UK. They are a minority within a minority (churchgoers). Certainly less than there are muslims

Yes, I am aware of this situation. It's not always easy to identify just exactly how many people are 'nominal' or how many attend church regularly.

Just to mention something about that - 'regular church attendance' is some kind of highly regarded 'measure' and way of identification given far too much reverence in the UK.

But anyways
I'm not Catholic but accept that a lot of people are and when a Pope arrives there will be some kind of state 'funding' going on. I'm not even sure if 'funding' is the right word.
It is as much 'self interest' or just 'best interest'.
You don't really say you are 'funding the Olympics' (well technically there is some truth to that),
but,
You host the Olympics and 'invest in it' and spend money for your own self interests.
You pay a lot of security.
You don't really say "OH.. so we have to fund the Olympics".



Most of them are not interested in the Pope. It's more about the spectacle.

Yes, it is the same for the Pope visiting the UK. Spectacle or not it requires a lot of security, special events planning etc etc.

[Ammi]

I don't want to pay for him to come here. They should take the money out of the religious community, or expect him to visit for free.

Even better, don't let him come. There's a reason for that huge square in the Vatican City, for people to go and SEE THE POPE.

At the end of the day, it's my choice not to be religious so it should be my choice to pay or not.

It would be nice if things were 'our choice' of what we pay for. I don't like the fact that its costing so much money and personally I dont feel inspired by the pope in any way but I don't think his visit should be singled out as being a waste of money. I dont agree with our soldiers losing their lives everyday, but that does'nt seem to be my choice. I don't agree with that sh*te Tony Blair being showered with prestigious awards in America, when he is nothing more than a power hungry murderer but thats not my choice, I don't think I should help to pay back the debt this country is in, but thats not my choice. Lots of things cost us the taxpayer lots of money and we may be very strongly opposed to them - nothing we can do about it. I'm forgetting about the fact that its the pope and just thinking about it that if any 'VIP' choses to visit us at a time when we are seen in such a negative way by a lot of the rest of the world then we should be making the most of it and just accept it as a positive

[setanta]

People who go and pay to attend the events are on their own so that is neither her nor there,
but,
20 million is not a lot for a massive thing like this. It's no more or less than you would get if Obama was doing a similar route and events.
Just wrap your head around what the Olympics will cost never mind the pope.

There isn't a controversy going on in the Catholic Church but a huge number of Brits are Catholics.
Sure, not all Brits are Catholics but there is some national systems to avoid controversies.
Plenty of us could not give a flying *** about (for example) hosting a World Cup or parading the team around,
but,
its a 'national event' sort of thing for a significant number of Brits who worship this type of thing - so its all done together.

Again - you can go to the Vatican and see mass amounts of non-Catholic Brits being hosted there.
Catholic and non-Catholic happy to have the security, lights turned on, etc etc.

Isn't alot of controversy? What? Do I have to mention some of the Pope's declarations that fly in the face of many people's beliefs, and not just that of Catholic people who are actually turning away from the church in their droves?

And the contributions are for the church, not for the British economy.

I can't believe you're saying it wont be a controversial visit and could lead to massive protests.

[Tom]

If it was Pope John Paul 2 I doubt there would be this uproar, its just because Benedict is a nasty old man.

In real terms, £10m isn't much of tax payers money considering the government get billions in tax each year. it just becomes a big issue when the Daily Mail get hold of the figure. Its like buying a bag of Space Raiders with a £50 note

[ange7]

Some 77% of Britons think taxpayers should not help pay for Pope Benedict XVI's visit to Scotland and England, a survey suggests.

An online poll of 2,005 adults issued by think tank Theos also found 79% had "no personal interest" in his visit.

:nono:

online polls are not worth sh*t. It's biased due to the fact that only those that have extreme views can be assed to fill in the poll. Only random polls of people that reflect the diversity of a community gets real results. An online survey at www.pissoffpope.co.uk .... does not. :P Shame on you karezza for using bs stats. Catholics are tax payers too and so they indirectly fund government cash that goes to other religions ... therefor they've a right to it.

[ElProximo]

Isn't alot of controversy? What? Do I have to mention some of the Pope's declarations that fly in the face of many people's beliefs, and not just that of Catholic people who are actually turning away from the church in their droves?

Right, they are their own belief system, club, organization. So the Pope makes declarations for his people.

This would be like you being outraged that Chelsea makes decisions that you strongly disagree with because you are an Arsenal supporter.

This would be like you being outraged at the Tories because they make declarations about their mandates and you being some Labour supporter don't like them.

This is like you being outraged that the Dalai Lama says things that you don't agree with because you are not a Buddhist.

And the contributions are for the church, not for the British economy.

I don't know what you are complaining about but just know these kinds of events are good for the economy.
Keep in mind this will draw massive tourism from everywhere else too. Tourism is awesome because it is nearly the closest thing to just getting 'free money' for your economy as we can ask for.

I can't believe you're saying it wont be a controversial visit and could lead to massive protests.

Uh?
Well I'm not sure what you think life should be like then? Protesters dictate who can be here.
Who gets to speak in public.
What a world you must hope for?
People are allowed to protest and good for them. They spend a lot of money on placards and help the local marijuana economy,
and,
afterward will buy a lot of bottled water and sell a lot of newspapers.
Win-win.

[keithafc]

He should not be in the country. No Surrender.

[headaball]

Check out the headgear. As well as being a fashionista - Benny is cooler than a refrigerator.

http://sandboxworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/pope-benedict-saturno-hat.jpg

[Shasown]

http://simianfarmer.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/lackoffaith.jpg

[setanta]

Right, they are their own belief system, club, organization. So the Pope makes declarations for his people.

This would be like you being outraged that Chelsea makes decisions that you strongly disagree with because you are an Arsenal supporter.

This would be like you being outraged at the Tories because they make declarations about their mandates and you being some Labour supporter don't like them.

This is like you being outraged that the Dalai Lama says things that you don't agree with because you are not a Buddhist.



I don't know what you are complaining about but just know these kinds of events are good for the economy.
Keep in mind this will draw massive tourism from everywhere else too. Tourism is awesome because it is nearly the closest thing to just getting 'free money' for your economy as we can ask for.



Uh?
Well I'm not sure what you think life should be like then? Protesters dictate who can be here.
Who gets to speak in public.
What a world you must hope for?
People are allowed to protest and good for them. They spend a lot of money on placards and help the local marijuana economy,
and,
afterward will buy a lot of bottled water and sell a lot of newspapers.
Win-win.

That's the whole problem though - he and his establishment are not representing the needs of their people in any way. That's why attendances are dropping and people are growing tired of the corruption and inflexibility within the hierarchy of the church.

That he has decided to foolishly make a visit to GB right now, after so many of his declarations fly in the face of a democratic and liberal minded state such as yourselves speaks volumes for his and the Vaticans disconnection with reality.

And they're pocketing the contribution money, not the government.

These protests could turn nasty too by the way.

[ILoveTRW]

I despise Labour.

[ElProximo]

That's the whole problem though - he and his establishment are not representing the needs of their people in any way. That's why attendances are dropping and people are growing tired of the corruption and inflexibility within the hierarchy of the church.

Uh no, they have a massive amount of members who continually attend and carry on as Roman Catholics.
At any given time there are membership numbers that rise and fall and so some drop doesn't represent 'their people',
but,
No, I don't know anything about the Roman Catholics growing tired of your alleged corruption in the hierarchy.
I think you have been watching too many Dan Brown movies with Davinci Codes and 'Evil Priests'.

That he has decided to foolishly make a visit to GB right now, after so many of his declarations fly in the face of a democratic and liberal minded state such as yourselves speaks volumes for his and the Vaticans disconnection with reality.


I don't now any declarations flying in the face of democracy (the Pope was voted into his office) or what you think 'liberal minded state' means,
but,
I think some of your declarations fly in the face of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly and all kinds of things a liberal society ought to be known for and all but defined by,
yet,
You don't see me wanting to take away your right to post these ideas on a public forum?


And they're pocketing the contribution money, not the government.

I don't know what you think that means.

These protests could turn nasty too by the way.

Then the wrongdoers need to be arrested for their nasty behavior and you ought to be disgusted with them for trying to censor, intimidate and harass those liberal values you like (selectively).

[Lee.]

I'm sometimes so unaware of what's going on and when.. Is he coming to Edinburgh today??

[Captain.Remy]

Bigoted, corrupt douchebag in charge of a dated, stupid cult, with a penchant for condemning everyone to AIDS and rehabilitating paedophiles and Holocaust deniers.

Absolute disgrace of a man and of a religion.

More of a man because as a Christian myself, I think he's horrible. He comes out as a monster and makes Christianity looks so bad. I don't recognize myself in what he is saying.

[setanta]

Wow El Proximo, have you not heard some of the things he and his cohorts have been saying of late? I predict a riot.

[ElProximo]

Wow El Proximo, have you not heard some of the things he and his cohorts have been saying of late? I predict a riot.

I saw one thing where he was making 'declarations' about how important it was for people around the world from all faiths come together in mutual respect.. something else about loving your neighbours... some other thing about charity... something else about how there was more need to be vigilant protecting the innocent.

CRAZY!!!!

[setanta]

I saw one thing where he was making 'declarations' about how important it was for people around the world from all faiths come together in mutual respect.. something else about loving your neighbours... some other thing about charity... something else about how there was more need to be vigilant protecting the innocent.

CRAZY!!!!

I'll give you some more doozies, shall I?

Well, I'll give you one for starters http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7096149.ece

Pope's right hand man blames homosexuals for clerical abuse.

[BB_Eye]

That's the whole problem though - he and his establishment are not representing the needs of their people in any way. That's why attendances are dropping and people are growing tired of the corruption and inflexibility within the hierarchy of the church.

That he has decided to foolishly make a visit to GB right now, after so many of his declarations fly in the face of a democratic and liberal minded state such as yourselves speaks volumes for his and the Vaticans disconnection with reality.

And they're pocketing the contribution money, not the government.

These protests could turn nasty too by the way.
The taxpayer props up his visit and his chief aide Cardinal Kaspar insults the UK calling it a "third world country". I am deeply sorry he feels that way... maybe him and his excellency could have remedied that by never visiting this country.

[setanta]

The taxpayer props up his visit and his chief aide Cardinal Kaspar insults the UK calling it a "third world country". I am deeply sorry he feels that way... maybe him and his excellency could have remedied that by never visiting this country.

Yeah, the third world comment was hysterical. Seriously, what planet or age are these fellas living in?

[MTVN]

People are getting too worked up here, using taxpayers money to fund visits from those of importance is hardly a new concept. And before people moan about the cost, at least acknowledge the huge amount of money that the visit will generate for the economy, just in Glasgow alone it will give an £8.5 million boost

He should not be in the country. No Surrender.

Stupid bigot.

[Lucy.]

Can someone sum up why everyone hates the Pope for me? I literally have no idea who, why or what he is hated for, I clearly live in a cave.

[MTVN]

Can someone sum up why everyone hates the Pope for me? I literally have no idea who, why or what he is hated for, I clearly live in a cave.

Well it's been a pretty controversial year for the Catholic Church, there were all the child abuse scandals, his employment of a Holocaust denier, his condemnation of condoms and there's the fact that he is against homosexuality and (like all Catholics) is opposed to abortion.

I dont think there would be the same amount of uproar of it was the previous Pope - John Paul II - visiting, he was a lot more popular

[Smithy]

He doesn't like Harry Potter either :(

[Lucy.]

Well it's been a pretty controversial year for the Catholic Church, there were all the child abuse scandals, his employment of a Holocaust denier, his condemnation of condoms and there's the fact that he is against homosexuality and (like all Catholics) is opposed to abortion.

I dont think there would be the same amount of uproar of it was the previous Pope - John Paul II - visiting, he was a lot more popular

But if that's Catholicism then why do they hate that particular Pope so much?

[bananarama]

Hours of pointless drivel being talked about the visit on sky news and elsware. News channels lost the plot as to what is real news is.......As for the cost it should be paid for by the catholic church. UK taxpayers other than catholics are literaly being robbed......

20 million pound or whatever could have been provided to hospitals to finance drugs that patients have been refused....Another example of religion indirectly killing people due to them wasting financial recources on rituals and clap trap from senile old nitwits......

[Shasown]

Hours of pointless drivel being talked about the visit on sky news and elsware. News channels lost the plot as to what is real news is.......As for the cost it should be paid for by the catholic church. UK taxpayers other than catholics are literaly being robbed......

20 million pound or whatever could have been provided to hospitals to finance drugs that patients have been refused....Another example of religion indirectly killing people due to them wasting financial recources on rituals and clap trap from senile old nitwits......

Yeah its a hard life living in a democracy aint it?

Incidentally any moneys generated in a wide range of businesses benefitting from old benny's visit, shouldnt that just go to the caffolics?

[MTVN]

But if that's Catholicism then why do they hate that particular Pope so much?

Because they dont feel he has done enough to denounce the child abuse in terms of apologising, compensation etc. And his remarks on condoms appeared ill-judged to many as he was saying that they wouldnt help combat AIDS while on a visit to Afirca. He's also very conservative with his beliefs although then again so was John Paul II.

It's basically mainly down to the revelations of child abuse and the subsequent resentment felt towards the Catholic Church. Many lost faith and respect for the Church and also him as a result.

[BB_Eye]

Looks like Papa Benedict is throwing back accusations often used on him. :joker:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11332515

His remarks betray a certain ignorance. The Nazis were not atheist, far from it, and we all know who was turning a blind eye to them in Rome, don't we?

[ElProximo]

I'll give you some more doozies, shall I?

Well, I'll give you one for starters http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7096149.ece

Pope's right hand man blames homosexuals for clerical abuse.

What are you confused about?
They discovered a problem - homosexual priests who were molesting the teen boys.
They have no more of this happening than found in public schools, secular sports organization and other orgs where adults have special trust with children,
but,
At least they are aiming to do something about it. In this case they won't hire Priests who are known to be homosexuals.

Now, a lot of people say the RC's were too slow to catch on to the problem even after they realized they have just as many sex perverts as the public schools and I tend to agree,
but,
to give them credit where it's due - they are now doing a superb job of not only trying to deal with the past problem but put in some of the strictest measures and prevention schemes to keep it from happening again.

[setanta]

What are you confused about?
They discovered a problem - homosexual priests who were molesting the teen boys.
They have no more of this happening than found in public schools, secular sports organization and other orgs where adults have special trust with children,
but,
At least they are aiming to do something about it. In this case they won't hire Priests who are known to be homosexuals.

Now, a lot of people say the RC's were too slow to catch on to the problem even after they realized they have just as many sex perverts as the public schools and I tend to agree,
but,
to give them credit where it's due - they are now doing a superb job of not only trying to deal with the past problem but put in some of the strictest measures and prevention schemes to keep it from happening again.

You're actually accepting what the Cardinal said? You're blaming homosexuality for all these child molestation scandals? Wow, there's no point continuing this with you.

And as for them dealing and reacting properly to all these new events... are you having a laugh?

[setanta]

Well, looks like there's already been trouble. Told you it would be a nightmare visit for him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11356600

[Zippy]

Bigoted, corrupt douchebag in charge of a dated, stupid cult, with a penchant for condemning everyone to AIDS and rehabilitating paedophiles and Holocaust deniers.

Absolute disgrace of a man and of a religion.

Here here.

It disgusts me when I start thinking about all the harm that he and his church of brainwashing has done to to the world. The hypocrisy, the lies, the ignorance. Millions have died as a direct result of their condemnation of protected sex and birth control. Millions have been made to feel worthless and often suicidal because of their rigid ideals of what their sexuality should be and how they should live their lives.

Then there is the shameful way in which they have covered up systematic child abuse that has been secretly occuring within the church for centuries. Protecting the abusers and allowing them to continue being a threat to children. Utterly deplorable.

His church should fund his visit if he's here to spread the word. Most of us dont even wanna hear his words. Some of us are even disgusted by his words.

[ElProximo]

You're actually accepting what the Cardinal said? You're blaming homosexuality for all these child molestation scandals? Wow, there's no point continuing this with you.

And as for them dealing and reacting properly to all these new events... are you having a laugh?

Well for starters there shouldn't be any homosexual priests but the idea here is they don't want high-risk people in positions where there are a lot of teenage boys entrusted.

Who do you think is molesting the teenage boys anyways?