Child benefit cuts

[Tom]

Sorry but should people whos household income is at least £44,000 really be whinging about not getting an extra £50 a week? They need to look at the bigger picture, there are people out there living off child benefits altogether with no extra income

[Iceman]

Sorry but should people whos household income is at least £44,000 really be whinging about not getting an extra £50 a week? They need to look at the bigger picture, there are people out there living off child benefits altogether with no extra income

Do what I heard suggested today, Women who just sit at home and have 5-6 kids, well only let them get benefits for only two children.

[Shasown]

Sorry but should people whos household income is at least £44,000 really be whinging about not getting an extra £50 a week? They need to look at the bigger picture, there are people out there living off child benefits altogether with no extra income

50?

Its £20.30 for the first qualifying child then £13.40 for each qualifying child after that.

It doesnt really make much difference to people with over 44 grand a year does it? Unless their budget counts on it.

There is the slight disparity that a family with a single earner earning £45 thousand wont get it. Yet a family with two earners earning up to £80+ thousand between them will.

But the line for qualifying had to be drawn somewhere. Maybe the govt should have said total family earnings over 44 grand.

[Iceman]

50?

Its £20.30 for the first qualifying child then £13.40 for each qualifying child after that.

It doesnt really make much difference to people with over 44 grand a year does it? Unless their budget counts on it.

There is the slight disparity that a family with a single earner earning £45 thousand wont get it. Yet a family with two earners earning up to £80+ thousand between them will.

But the line for qualifying had to be drawn somewhere. Maybe the govt should have said total family earnings over 44 grand.

I agree, whatever qualifying limit they would have said there would have been uproar, it was a lose lose situation. At least they've given plenty of notice though.

[Lucy.]

People who earn over 44k can still have debt.

[Tom]

People who earn over 44k can still have debt.

What is basically pocket money to said people isn't going to solve their debts

I agree that it should be total earnings rather than one persons earnings but the way the media are going on about it you'd think they're axing half of their salary and its the end of the world instead of them just not getting child benefit anymore

[Iceman]

People who earn over 44k can still have debt.

I dont think thats the issue though, I just think its tougher for someone on say 20K to lose that money rather than someone on 44K who could budget to deal with the loss of the money...

[Shaun]

Well, cutbacks have to be made...

[Lucy.]

Well maybe if you ever know someone who earns over 44k and isn't in the picture perfect idea everyone seems to have that their loaded you'll think differently.

[Tom]

Well maybe if you ever know someone who earns over 44k and isn't in the picture perfect idea everyone seems to have that their loaded you'll think differently.

yeah, my mum. She never claimed child benefit and was perfectly comfortable

me & my girlfriend don't even earn £44k between us and we're fine with a lot of excess and probably won't claim should we have a kid

its not so much being loaded, just more being comfortable and such a small amount of money (to some) is going to make minimal difference

[Lucy.]

Your mum isn't the advertisment for every person who earns over 44k in the world.

[Tom]

So? I'm just putting a point across that you can earn that much money and still live a comfortable life without the need for benefits. If you get into debt when you earn high amounts then its your own fault, you should live by your means instead of wanting what you cant have. the 'poorest' people affected by this will be earning £2800 minimum per month after tax, do you really think child benefit is going to bridge a gap between being in debt and not being in debt?

[Lucy.]

So? I'm just putting a point across that you can earn that much money and still live a comfortable life without the need for benefits. If you get into debt when you earn high amounts then its your own fault, you should live by your means instead of wanting what you cant have. the 'poorest' people affected by this will be earning £2800 minimum per month after tax, do you really think child benefit is going to bridge a gap between being in debt and not being in debt?

I'm not disputing that you can :bored: And that's the biggest pile of **** I've ever heard. If you get into debt it's your own fault? My dad has been ill for a hell of alot of his working career when I was young and my mum was the only one working and built up a tons of debt from looking after him and a baby with numerous other unforseen circumstances that hit the family. Your actually telling me that it's now her fault that she has 25,000 worth of debt and every month that her wage comes in she's already overdrawn? You need a shake.

[Tom]

I'm not disputing that you can :bored: And that's the biggest pile of **** I've ever heard. If you get into debt it's your own fault? My dad has been ill for a hell of alot of his working career when I was young and my mum was the only one working and built up a tons of debt from looking after him and a baby with numerous other unforseen circumstances that hit the family. Your actually telling me that it's now her fault that she has 25,000 worth of debt and every month that her wage comes in she's already overdrawn? You need a shake.

Were your mum & dad both earning 44k+ each?

[Lucy.]

Were your mum & dad both earning 44k+ each?

No, you really think she'd be in debt if she was getting an additional 44k wage sick pay!?

[Tom]

No, you really think she'd be in debt if she was getting an additional 44k wage sick pay!?

Well you can hardly apply your situation to the people who are losing child benefit then

I'm not saying about everyone in debt, its unavoidable for some people, but for people who are on high wages (bearing in mind the average wage is around £19k) if you manage to get yourself in debt then its your own fault

[Lucy.]

Well you can hardly apply your situation to the people who are losing child benefit then

I'm not saying about everyone in debt, its unavoidable for some people, but for people who are on high wages (bearing in mind the average wage is around £19k) if you manage to get yourself in debt then its your own fault

My parents are seperated, it's just my mum's wage that counts. My point isn't that MY particular family will suffer anyway, they won't I'm 18. It's the fact that you can't just say that everyone who earns over 44k will be fine with losing child benefit. That's not true.

[KG.]

I earnt a lot of respect for the Tories for this.

[Kerry]

yeah, my mum. She never claimed child benefit and was perfectly comfortable

me & my girlfriend don't even earn £44k between us and we're fine with a lot of excess and probably won't claim should we have a kid

its not so much being loaded, just more being comfortable and such a small amount of money (to some) is going to make minimal difference

You don't choose to get Child benefit. You GET it. You don't claim it. Once you have a child the parent gets it, full stop. It's a general thing. Not a benefit like signing on you nana

[Angus]

What is wrong with means testing child benefit? It was introduced in 1977 to help families feed and clothe their children and should never have been available to high income families. However, over the years the system has been abused by scroungers and feckless young girls who carry on having children they cannot afford to bring up themselves. I had to bring up two sons on my own when I divorced and whilst the child benefit was extremely useful and it was spent on the CHILDREN, I didn't consider it a right or an entitlement, and would have supported any move to cut it back or even abolish it then, as well.

Well it is still going to be paid to families who earn under £44K so what is all the outrage about? The Tories need to go further and make it payable only for the first two children. There should also be some way of ensuring the money is actually spent on the CHILDREN and not seen as pocket money for mum and dad. Most families, even earning £44K or more, plan their families within their means, and people who wish to have large families should support their OWN children since it is their choice to have more than 2.
It annoys me that some parents who have never worked a day in their lives so as to contribute anything to society, can blithely carry on having children that other people are effectively supporting.

And why the hell are we giving child benefit payments to eastern european immigrant workers who send it back home to the tune of millions? Has this country completely taken leave of its senses? Why are we funding child benefit payments for children living in their home countries of Poland, Rumania etc? These payments should be STOPPED immediately, there is no justification for British workers funding the children of economic immigrants. That would slash the welfare burden quite considerably and free up more money for those in this country who have actually CONTRIBUTED throughout their working lives, like pensioners.

[Kazanne]

Sorry but should people whos household income is at least £44,000 really be whinging about not getting an extra £50 a week? They need to look at the bigger picture, there are people out there living off child benefits altogether with no extra income

IF you listen to the reasons why,and the details you will see they are right!!!

[Kazanne]

What is wrong with means testing child benefit? It was introduced in 1977 to help families feed and clothe their children and should never have been available to high income families. However, over the years the system has been abused by scroungers and feckless young girls who carry on having children they cannot afford to bring up themselves. I had to bring up two sons on my own when I divorced and whilst the child benefit was extremely useful and it was spent on the CHILDREN, I didn't consider it a right or an entitlement, and would have supported any move to cut it back or even abolish it then, as well.

Well it is still going to be paid to families who earn under £44K so what is all the outrage about? The Tories need to go further and make it payable only for the first two children. There should also be some way of ensuring the money is actually spent on the CHILDREN and not seen as pocket money for mum and dad. Most families, even earning £44K or more, plan their families within their means, and people who wish to have large families should support their OWN children since it is their choice to have more than 2.
It annoys me that some parents who have never worked a day in their lives so as to contribute anything to society, can blithely carry on having children that other people are effectively supporting.

And why the hell are we giving child benefit payments to eastern european immigrant workers who send it back home to the tune of millions? Has this country completely taken leave of its senses? Why are we funding child benefit payments for children living in their home countries of Poland, Rumania etc? These payments should be STOPPED immediately, there is no justification for British workers funding the children of economic immigrants. That would slash the welfare burden quite considerably and free up more money for those in this country who have actually CONTRIBUTED throughout their working lives, like pensioners.

Spot on Angus,people need to read the details and understand why this is a good thing.

[Angus]

You don't choose to get Child benefit. You GET it. You don't claim it. Once you have a child the parent gets it, full stop. It's a general thing. Not a benefit like signing on you nana


If you're THAT principled, you can opt out, maybe that's what is meant. Unfortunately, a lot of people who don't really need it, take it anyway.

[Shasown]

And why the hell are we giving child benefit payments to eastern european immigrant workers who send it back home to the tune of millions? Has this country completely taken leave of its senses? Why are we funding child benefit payments for children living in their home countries of Poland, Rumania etc? These payments should be STOPPED immediately, there is no justification for British workers funding the children of economic immigrants. That would slash the welfare burden quite considerably and free up more money for those in this country who have actually CONTRIBUTED throughout their working lives, like pensioners.

Just to correct you there, child benefit is only paid to those whose children are resident in the UK


Being present in the UK
To get Child Benefit both you and your child must be physically present in the UK. But you'll still be able to get it if you're out of the country for short, temporary stays, like on holiday.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/childbenefit/start/who-qualifies/new-arrivals-uk.htm


But just to really hack you off, migrant workers from EEA countries can claim Child Tax Credit and Working Tax Credit, which adds up to a lot more money in their pocket than Child Benefit.

Unfortunately not a lot can be done about that as its one of the benefits of the EEA policies that workers can pick up tax allowances from their own country and the country they work in.

Its good to know should you decide to work in Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, or Slovenia you will be able to sign up for the pittances oops allowances their workers get.

[Ammi]

I agree that whatever the threshold they decided on it would p*** off some people so that part of it is fine. If they decided on 44k thats fine its fair and reasonable.
But its the absurdity of the fact that two joint incomes can be earned up to £86999 and they get it but a household where a mother or father has made the decision to be a stay at home parent earning £44000 lose out. Its ridiculous. And £44000 is a great income in some areas of the country but in other expensive areas its not especially high if you have a mortgage and children.
And the higher earners are supporting the 'poor and vulnerable' - well that is not necessarily the case. I come into contact with lots of families in my job and I would say that the 'poor and vulnerable' on different benefits - their children have a lot more games consoles, TV's in all their bedrooms, latest up to the minute phones, sky TV and basically every damn gadget and new craze that comes onto the market - whereas so called 'well off 'families cannot afford afford any of this stuff. And they could do with the extra towards school uniforms, school trips, christmas, birthdays, university fees etc as much as anyone. And they pay enough god damn tax and national insurance - why shoudn't they

[Angus]

Just to correct you there, child benefit is only paid to those whose children are resident in the UK


But just to really hack you off, migrant workers from EEA countries can claim Child Tax Credit and Working Tax Credit, which adds up to a lot more money in their pocket than Child Benefit.

Unfortunately not a lot can be done about that as its one of the benefits of the EEA policies that workers can pick up tax allowances from their own country and the country they work in.

Its good to know should you decide to work in Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, or Slovenia you will be able to sign up for the pittances oops allowances their workers get.




Economic migrants from Eastern Europe are receiving child benefit for their children who do NOT live in the UK.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/majornews/6475165/Britain-pays-child-benefit-for-more-than-50000-children-living-abroad.html


This is from the Department of Works & Pensions website:

Benefits for children in EEA countries
UK Child Benefit and Child Tax Credit
If you are in the UK or another EEA country and

you are employed or self-employed in a job in which you must pay contributions under the UK scheme
or

you are getting one of one of the following UK benefits:
Contribution-based Jobseeker's Allowance
Guardian's Allowance
Incapacity Benefit
contribution-based Employment and Support Allowance
State Pension
Widows Benefit/Bereavement benefits
Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit
you can usually get UK Child Benefit or Child Tax Credit for your children, even if they are living in another EEA member state.

[uvhater]

There are some people in this country who are just plain greedy.

I don't work (yep a stay-at-home Mum) but my husband does work full-time and we receive the relevant benefits for two children. I also receive Disability Living Allowance and Carer's Allowance for my eldest child. Our income is STILL no where near the £44K limit and we could manage without child benefit. I won't bore you with the details but I make sure the child benefit is spent ON the child and not the rest of the family. I always have and always will. One of my sisters got child benefit she just put it in her purse and spent it on whatever.

Absouletly crazy that all parents received this money no matter how much they earn, yes even the Royal Family. Can't tell me they even notice this amount in their bank account.

Believe you me if you are unemployed or on a very very low wage child benefit can be a lifesaver (sometime literally).

[arista]

Well, cutbacks have to be made...


Bang On Right
Shaun.

[Tom]

I earnt a lot of respect for the Tories for this.

Yeah, I'm quite liking this Tory government, they know what cuts need to be made but they're starting with the top earners where there will be little disruption as opposed to last time they were in power when they started at the bottom

You don't choose to get Child benefit. You GET it. You don't claim it. Once you have a child the parent gets it, full stop. It's a general thing. Not a benefit like signing on you nana

You still have to put a claim form in, you don't just set up a direct debit when you leave hospital. Most benefits don't require signing on you nana

[Ammi]

Well, cutbacks have to be made...

Yes cutbacks do have to be made and a national debt does have to be repaid and in Camerons own words everyone will have to contribute accordingly. But this isn't everyone this is just the so called better off. Well some of them are but not all of them not by a long way. There are people who are absolutely vulnerable and they need these allowances to put food on the table and nobody can deny that - but there are others who 'cant afford' to buy their kids school uniforms but can afford £90 trainers because the child wants them, 'cant afford to pay for their child to go on school trips to broaden their minds but can afford DS consoles, is eligable for free school meals but manage to get McDonalds or Chinese takeaways 3 nights a week. There are those 'poor and vulnerable' who go out and get pi**ed every friday and/or Saturday, who smoke 20 fags a day.
While all the while the 'better off' are getting squeezed tighter and tighter by the government to pay more and more. Well if they carry on there will only be the few very rich and the rest will be all poor so there will be no one to squeeze and no pot to take from and then what the hell will happen

[Tom]

Yes cutbacks do have to be made and a national debt does have to be repaid and in Camerons own words everyone will have to contribute accordingly. But this isn't everyone this is just the so called better off. Well some of them are but not all of them not by a long way. There are people who are absolutely vulnerable and they need these allowances to put food on the table and nobody can deny that - but there are others who 'cant afford' to buy their kids school uniforms but can afford £90 trainers because the child wants them, 'cant afford to pay for their child to go on school trips to broaden their minds but can afford DS consoles, is eligable for free school meals but manage to get McDonalds or Chinese takeaways 3 nights a week. There are those 'poor and vulnerable' who go out and get pi**ed every friday and/or Saturday, who smoke 20 fags a day.
While all the while the 'better off' are getting squeezed tighter and tighter by the government to pay more and more. Well if they carry on there will only be the few very rich and the rest will be all poor so there will be no one to squeeze and no pot to take from and then what the hell will happen

You're making one hell of a generalisation there. Its like saying all people who live on council estates are filthy chavs or alcoholics with no jobs or intentions of getting one when it couldn't be further from the truth in some areas

[Ammi]

You're making one hell of a generalisation there. Its like saying all people who live on council estates are filthy chavs or alcoholics with no jobs or intentions of getting one when it couldn't be further from the truth in some areas

No I'm not making any generalisations more than anybody else who assumes an income of 44k is a high income full stop. It is in some cases but it also depends on whether you live in an expensive area and have a large morgage. As always the government opt out of any means test because its easier, quicker and cheaper to go for the easy target. And I'm not generalising about all 'poor and vulnerable' families - of course there are families who desperately need allowances and benefits and of course they should be supported but I also know through my contact with lots of families with varying different circumstances that there's a lot more so called poor and vulnerable who have a lot more material possessions than the so called well off. Why shouldn't I comment on that when it is assumed that 'well off' people shouldn't be in debt, that its all their own fault cos they earn a fortune dont they so why should they just not be so greedy and stop spending and live within their means. Well why does that not apply to people on benefits who's kids come into school and say 'can you look after my DS for me till hometime'. Your assuming I'm saying that everyone on benefits is not entitled or squanders money or are scamming the system or are smoking or drinking it away or whatever. I'M NOT - I'm saying it about the ones who do and they do!!!! It is complicated to means test yes but that doesn't mean to say it isn't the only or right fair way - It has to be seen to be fair otherwise it wont be

[Tom4784]

I generally agree with Tom here, I like the idea that Higher Earning familes really shouldn't get as much benefits as they really don't need it, My parents don't earn £44,000 a year yet they live comfortably. As long as the people who do need it get it then I'm fine with the cuts to people who can live without.

[Ammi]

I generally agree with Tom here, I like the idea that Higher Earning familes really shouldn't get as much benefits as they really don't need it, My parents don't earn £44,000 a year yet they live comfortably. As long as the people who do need it get it then I'm fine with the cuts to people who can live without.

hmmm problem is we all have things we could live without - people on benefits included - not all but some. I watch this thing on BBC1 on Mondays called Saints and Sinners and they're are some really lovely people out there who havn't had a great deal of the cards and deserve any help they're given but unfortunately they're are also people who claim everything and anything even when they arn't entitled and they abuse the system. It has to be seen to be fair and unfortunately its not when I am witness to such bad examples constantly. And it is on balance because I am not denying the genuinly deserving cases

[MTVN]

Considering the drastic cuts that the Conservatives are having to make, I can't see how people are kicking up a fuss over this.

They should count themselves lucky, they're in a lot better position than most and this will hit them far less hard than a lot of the people who will be affected by the forthcoming government cuts.

[Tom]

No I'm not making any generalisations more than anybody else who assumes an income of 44k is a high income full stop. It is in some cases but it also depends on whether you live in an expensive area and have a large morgage. As always the government opt out of any means test because its easier, quicker and cheaper to go for the easy target. And I'm not generalising about all 'poor and vulnerable' families - of course there are families who desperately need allowances and benefits and of course they should be supported but I also know through my contact with lots of families with varying different circumstances that there's a lot more so called poor and vulnerable who have a lot more material possessions than the so called well off. Why shouldn't I comment on that when it is assumed that 'well off' people shouldn't be in debt, that its all their own fault cos they earn a fortune dont they so why should they just not be so greedy and stop spending and live within their means. Well why does that not apply to people on benefits who's kids come into school and say 'can you look after my DS for me till hometime'. Your assuming I'm saying that everyone on benefits is not entitled or squanders money or are scamming the system or are smoking or drinking it away or whatever. I'M NOT - I'm saying it about the ones who do and they do!!!! It is complicated to means test yes but that doesn't mean to say it isn't the only or right fair way - It has to be seen to be fair otherwise it wont be

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, more that you're making it sound like everyone is doing that. You're also missing the point that some poorer families have more material posessions to make themselves feel more well off. Its an ego boost if anything.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/10/06/article-1318034-0B7DDFCA000005DC-125_634x443.jpg

[Angus]

Anyone who voted to keep Labour in power for 13 miserable years, has no right to be bleating and whingeing about the cuts that are having to be made now. Labour did what they have always done, blithely borrowing with no thoughts as to how we are supposed to pay it all back. The government has no choice but to implement severe cuts in public spending and we're ALL going to feel the pain, but let's put the blame where it richly deserves to be, on the incompetent and feckless useless Labour Party, finally kicked out before they could inflict any further damage on our country.

[Ammi]

Anyone who voted to keep Labour in power for 13 miserable years, has no right to be bleating and whingeing about the cuts that are having to be made now. Labour did what they have always done, blithely borrowing with no thoughts as to how we are supposed to pay it all back. The government has no choice but to implement severe cuts in public spending and we're ALL going to feel the pain, but let's put the blame where it richly deserves to be, on the incompetent and feckless useless Labour Party, finally kicked out before they could inflict any further damage on our country.

Your totally right but all the criticism will go to the elected party now and before long the labours will get back in because to have been elected is a lose lose situation. It will be this is what the Conservative/Lib Dems have done - not this is what labour done and have always done whenever they have been elected - they always leave the country in a complete mess and I hope the blame is where it should be and that people have long memories. Its a clean up situation and all of it is down to the last lousy government

[Angus]

Your totally right but all the criticism will go to the elected party now and before long the labours will get back in because to have been elected is a lose lose situation. It will be this is what the Conservative/Lib Dems have done - not this is what labour done and have always done whenever they have been elected - they always leave the country in a complete mess and I hope the blame is where it should be and that people have long memories. Its a clean up situation and all of it is down to the last lousy government

Yep, it has always been Labour's modus operandi - grind the country into the ground, get kicked out, have the incoming government clean up their mess causing said government to become massively unpopular, then blithely be re-elected to do it all over again by a moronic electorate who have the memory of a goldfish. Thus the cycle is perpetuated:rolleyes:

[Ammi]

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, more that you're making it sound like everyone is doing that. You're also missing the point that some poorer families have more material posessions to make themselves feel more well off. Its an ego boost if anything.

I'm not saying that in fact I've repeated that it doesn't apply to everyone so I'm not generalising. I know some very hard working families that I absolutely think deserve extra help and they struggle to get a break in life sometimes. But I also know (and actually quite a lot) of people who refuse to do anything to try and change their situation because it would affect their entitlements (thats their description - entitled!!) And they appear to have much more than I do - so can you blame me. I don't think anyone entitled. It may be more complicated and expensive but means testing is a fairer way and you cant always just take the easiest route. I wouldn't deny that most people should have some material possessions but no one needs them more than someone else and (and I am only talking about people on benefits who appear to have every gadget going) how am I supposed to feel when I cant afford these things and I work and pay my taxes and always have. I cant afford lots of luxories yet am being told I'm better off. Don't forget the 44k plus also gets nearly 50% of their income taken away in tax and insurance before they start. And they dont get Family Credits that other do. Like I said things have to BE SEEN to be fair. There are people with low incomes that absolutely deserve to get more and there are people with higher incomes who I think deserve it too. And if they just put it away for their kide Uni fees I'm fine with that too because thats our future.

[Beastie]

Sorry but should people whos household income is at least £44,000 really be whinging about not getting an extra £50 a week? They need to look at the bigger picture, there are people out there living off child benefits altogether with no extra income

They should not be complaining. It is A LOT of money to earn that per year. I know there are people out there.. who probably do work long long hours and get very stressed and deserve the amount of money they are getting but things need to change. The richer and getting richer. The poor are getting poorer :( It needs to be balanced out a bit!

[Beastie]

Do what I heard suggested today, Women who just sit at home and have 5-6 kids, well only let them get benefits for only two children.

If you can't afford to have more than 2 kids then you shouldn't have them. Why the f uck do I have to work and pay for other people's sprogs?? Disgusting.

I do feel sorry for people who genuinely out of a job though and are desperately looking for another one. I have been in that position too! Once you get a job.. you feel ever so grateful! :)

[Beastie]

Well maybe if you ever know someone who earns over 44k and isn't in the picture perfect idea everyone seems to have that their loaded you'll think differently.

I know people who earn a lot of money and are stupid with their money.. they have to get the latest this.. the latest "designer gear" this that and the other.. people having loans on bloody sofa's!! If you can't afford something.. you should not have it alltogether!!!!

[Angus]

The government need to sort out the anomaly of a two parent working family where mum and dad earn, say £40,000 per year each - total income £80,000 and are still entitled to receive child benefit,and a one parent family earning £45,000 and no child benefit. If they're going to do this it needs to be done fairly.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Anyone who voted to keep Labour in power for 13 miserable years, has no right to be bleating and whingeing about the cuts that are having to be made now. Labour did what they have always done, blithely borrowing with no thoughts as to how we are supposed to pay it all back. The government has no choice but to implement severe cuts in public spending and we're ALL going to feel the pain, but let's put the blame where it richly deserves to be, on the incompetent and feckless useless Labour Party, finally kicked out before they could inflict any further damage on our country.

Any idiot knows it was the banks that got us into this mess, if anything Labour are to blame for adopting Tory policy and allowing the financial sector to go unregulated...The main problem with the child benefit cuts is a family earning over 80 K will still be entitled to it but a family earning 44 k will lose out....I wouldnt trust Osbourne to do my 6 year olds maths homework

[Angus]

Any idiot knows it was the banks that got us into this mess, if anything Labour are to blame for adopting Tory policy and allowing the financial sector to go unregulated...The main problem with the child benefit cuts is a family earning over 80 K will still be entitled to it but a family earning 44 k will lose out....I wouldnt trust Osbourne to do my 6 year olds maths homework

Spin it however you want, any IDIOT knows it was LABOUR that left this country in the worst economic mess it has ever been in - THEY were the ones in charge for 13 years so why try to apportion blame elsewhere? Labour couldn't organise a piss up at a brewery.

As regards child benefit it should be means tested and only the very poorest families should receive it, I would say with an income under £30k, and then only for the first two to stop feckless parents having kids they can't afford to look after. All child benefits should be scrapped for economic migrant's children NOT living in the UK. At least this government is making a start, but they need to implement much more savage cuts, especially in the bloated public sector.

It's time to pay the piper after 13 years of Labour profligacy.

[lostalex]

People should have to pay taxes to the government for having kids, not getting tax BREAKS for having kids. This is a step in the right direction.

For every child you have, you should be forced to pay exponentially more taxes, after all how much of our tax dollars/pounds go towards schools and education? How much of our tax money is spend on roads, hospitals etc. It's the people having more kids that puts more people on the roads, schools, hospitals.

People having kids should pay more tax because they are putting more burden on the system.

It's the childless people that should get the tax breaks, we are the ones being responsible.

[Ammi]

Spin it however you want, any IDIOT knows it was LABOUR that left this country in the worst economic mess it has ever been in - THEY were the ones in charge for 13 years so why try to apportion blame elsewhere? Labour couldn't organise a piss up at a brewery.

As regards child benefit it should be means tested and only the very poorest families should receive it, I would say with an income under £30k, and then only for the first two to stop feckless parents having kids they can't afford to look after. All child benefits should be scrapped for economic migrant's children NOT living in the UK. At least this government is making a start, but they need to implement much more savage cuts, especially in the bloated public sector.

It's time to pay the piper after 13 years of Labour profligacy.

Such sense - I'll vote for you Angus 58 - the banks got us into it did they - it was Labour Governmet who bailed the banks out and did they specify where the cash had to go to NO they effing didnt so what did the banks do - they gave it to the staff in bonuses that was our taxes and Labour just handed it over without any conditions then tried to say it was amoral when millions of pounds where put into Cheif executives pockets - Labour gave it to them - MORONS

[Tom]

People should have to pay taxes to the government for having kids, not getting tax BREAKS for having kids. This is a step in the right direction.

For every child you have, you should be forced to pay exponentially more taxes, after all how much of our tax dollars/pounds go towards schools and education? How much of our tax money is spend on roads, hospitals etc. It's the people having more kids that puts more people on the roads, schools, hospitals.

People having kids should pay more tax because they are putting more burden on the system.

It's the childless people that should get the tax breaks, we are the ones being responsible.

They'd save a lot of money by axing child tax credits, people solely on benefits can even claim tax credits and they don't work!! the benefits system is so messed up

[Angus]

In this day and age with a burgeoning population we should not be encouraging people to have more children by paying them for it. Some feckless parents see having kids and living off benefits as a career choice these days. What's more councils shove them to the top of the housing queue. So blame the system that encourages irresponsibility, fecklessness and idleness.

[Angus]

Such sense - I'll vote for you Angus 58 - the banks got us into it did they - it was Labour Governmet who bailed the banks out and did they specify where the cash had to go to NO they effing didnt so what did the banks do - they gave it to the staff in bonuses that was our taxes and Labour just handed it over without any conditions then tried to say it was amoral when millions of pounds where put into Cheif executives pockets - Labour gave it to them - MORONS

What staggers me is that you still get people defending the indefensible - a socialist government in power for 13 years who in fact created MORE poverty by their reckless spending and misdirection of funding to greedy banks. Their manifesto was a work of complete fiction and they have merrily led this country to the brink of disaster. They weren't too shy about dipping their hands in the till themselves either were they?

Labour has encouraged a cradle to the grave welfare system that rewards the bone idle, the scroungers and the scammers whilst those in real need are forced to jump through hoops to get any help. Some people see living off benefits as a right, even though they have never paid a penny into the system or done a day's work in their lives.

What choice does the new Government have but to rein in spending and implement savage cuts?

[NettoSuperstar!]

Spin it however you want, any IDIOT knows it was LABOUR that left this country in the worst economic mess it has ever been in - THEY were the ones in charge for 13 years so why try to apportion blame elsewhere? Labour couldn't organise a piss up at a brewery.

As regards child benefit it should be means tested and only the very poorest families should receive it, I would say with an income under £30k, and then only for the first two to stop feckless parents having kids they can't afford to look after. All child benefits should be scrapped for economic migrant's children NOT living in the UK. At least this government is making a start, but they need to implement much more savage cuts, especially in the bloated public sector.

It's time to pay the piper after 13 years of Labour profligacy.

Labour may have been in charge but its de regulation and unfettered greed (Thatchers baby) that got us in this mess and ordinary hard working people that are picking up the tab! Bloated public sector? you have obviousley never worked for the public sector have u.

And families on 30k shouldnt have to pay for this mess either, £30k is **** all for a family living in London or other areas down south when they have ever increasing housing costs/childcare costs etc

the utter savagery of these cuts is ideological and less about paying off the deficit and tax evaders and bankers need to be paying a higher share

[NettoSuperstar!]

People should have to pay taxes to the government for having kids, not getting tax BREAKS for having kids. This is a step in the right direction.

For every child you have, you should be forced to pay exponentially more taxes, after all how much of our tax dollars/pounds go towards schools and education? How much of our tax money is spend on roads, hospitals etc. It's the people having more kids that puts more people on the roads, schools, hospitals.

People having kids should pay more tax because they are putting more burden on the system.

It's the childless people that should get the tax breaks, we are the ones being responsible.

oh lets all follow that logic and find ourselves old and alone with noone to support us, without children our future is ****ed

[lostalex]

oh lets all follow that logic and find ourselves old and alone with noone to support us, without children our future is ****ed


what a sad life you must live if the most meaningful thing you ever did was have sex and dumped out a child from yur crotch.

...and we wonder why society is in decline with attitudes like this?

having children has nothing to do with how alone you feel. if you rely on yur children to not feel alone, i feel sorry for your children. you sound very needy and dependant.

[Angus]

Labour may have been in charge but its de regulation and unfettered greed (Thatchers baby) that got us in this mess and ordinary hard working people that are picking up the tab! Bloated public sector? you have obviousley never worked for the public sector have u.

And families on 30k shouldnt have to pay for this mess either, £30k is **** all for a family living in London or other areas down south when they have ever increasing housing costs/childcare costs etc

the utter savagery of these cuts is ideological and less about paying off the deficit and tax evaders and bankers need to be paying a higher share

Well I know plenty of people who do just fine on far less than £30,000 AND they don't go down the social with their hands out, AND they limit their families to the amount of kids they can afford to have so what bloody planet do you live on if you think £30k is **** all? I also live practically on top of Lewisham, probably one of the ****tiest boroughs in London, so don't give me a load of BS about how tough it is to live in London compared to elsewhere. London wages are proportionately higher for the same job done elsewhere in the country, it's called London Weighting. As for never having worked in the public sector, you know nothing about me whatsoever. I worked as a civil servant at the Home Office for 9 years so keep your useless assumptions to yourself. And public sector workers have no more right than those in the private sector to wage increases, pensions, bonuses etc, never mind their jobs. Why should their jobs and wages be protected over and above those working in the private sector?

As regards the bankers - well it was the LABOUR party that chucked everyone's hard earned cash at them wasn't it? Oh, and plenty of Labour voters and Labour MPs alike displayed plenty of "unfettered greed" and took full advantage to enhance their own lifestyles. Hypocrites? Much.

Yet here you are, still trying to shift the blame for the useless and incompetent arseholes finally kicked out of power after THIRTEEN long years, during which they achieved virtually nothing except to leave us all in the ****. Or is that the signature whinge of every socialist? That it's always someone else's fault.

As for the "utter savagery of the cuts" - they don't go nearly far enough IMO, and that's from someone whose income is far, far less than £30k a year!

[Angus]

oh lets all follow that logic and find ourselves old and alone with noone to support us, without children our future is ****ed

How sad to have children with the intention that in your old age you expect them to support you and keep you company. Children are not possessions or insurance policies for old age. If you have worked hard all your life you should have provided for your own old age and not expect your kids to look after you. Both mine have enough on their plates as it is without having to support me as well! I want them to get on and live their own lives without having to worry about me!

[NettoSuperstar!]

what a sad life you must live if the most meaningful thing you ever did was have sex and dumped out a child from yur crotch.

...and we wonder why society is in decline with attitudes like this?

having children has nothing to do with how alone you feel. if you rely on yur children to not feel alone, i feel sorry for your children. you sound very needy and dependant.

Use your brain Im not talking about me as an individual Im talking about society, do you understand how a society works?...no well you've got Thatcher to thanks for that...everyman for himself.... If we start penalising families and we all stopped having kids this country would go to the dogs when we're all old

[NettoSuperstar!]

Well I know plenty of people who do just fine on far less than £30,000 AND they don't go down the social with their hands out, AND they limit their families to the amount of kids they can afford to have so what bloody planet do you live on if you think £30k is **** all? I also live practically on top of Lewisham, probably one of the ****tiest boroughs in London, so don't give me a load of BS about how tough it is to live in London compared to elsewhere. London wages are proportionately higher for the same job done elsewhere in the country, it's called London Weighting. As for never having worked in the public sector, you know nothing about me whatsoever. I worked as a civil servant at the Home Office for 9 years so keep your useless assumptions to yourself. And public sector workers have no more right than those in the private sector to wage increases, pensions, bonuses etc, never mind their jobs. Why should their jobs and wages be protected over and above those working in the private sector?

As regards the bankers - well it was the LABOUR party that chucked everyone's hard earned cash at them wasn't it? Oh, and plenty of Labour voters and Labour MPs alike displayed plenty of "unfettered greed" and took full advantage to enhance their own lifestyles. Hypocrites? Much.

Yet here you are, still trying to shift the blame for the useless and incompetent arseholes finally kicked out of power after THIRTEEN long years, during which they achieved virtually nothing except to leave us all in the ****. Or is that the signature whinge of every socialist? That it's always someone else's fault.

As for the "utter savagery of the cuts" - they don't go nearly far enough IMO, and that's from someone whose income is far, far less than £30k a year!

....as I said Labour adopted Tory policy there mate and that was a costly mistake, Thatcher was right New Labour was the best thing she ever did and if you cant see that, thats your problem....Im not shifting the blame Im just pointing out where it all started and you still seem to think its fair to make ordinary hard working families suffer when it wasnt their doing. £30k is **** all for a family in London I dont care what you say, why should hard working Dr's Nurses Teachers Police Firemen (people who save lives and protect you) not have a decent standard of living while bankers are still getting massive bonuses and STILL taking the same risks as they always were?

[arista]

Miss NettoAsdaWalmart Star

Even the Guardian polls support these Cuts.

Wake Up

[NettoSuperstar!]

How sad to have children with the intention that in your old age you expect them to support you and keep you company. Children are not possessions or insurance policies for old age. If you have worked hard all your life you should have provided for your own old age and not expect your kids to look after you. Both mine have enough on their plates as it is without having to support me as well! I want them to get on and live their own lives without having to worry about me!

Im not talking about me as an individual Im talking about the importance of children and families as a whole for society...if you cant see that your a bit limited upstairs

[arista]

"without children our future is ****ed "


You need to watch the DVD or BluRay
Surrogates starring Bruce Willis.

Life In The Fast Lane.

[NettoSuperstar!]

Miss NettoAsdaWalmart Star

Even the Guardian polls support these Cuts.

Wake Up

I really couldnt care less how many people have swallowed the bull****e Arista

[arista]

I really couldnt care less how many people have swallowed the bull****e Arista


You need a Full Body Massage

[NettoSuperstar!]

get out of it man...you can all work like bitches for a pittance so bankers can carry on as per and swallow it, me Im a bit pissed off

[Angus]

Im not talking about me as an individual Im talking about the importance of children and families as a whole for society...if you cant see that your a bit limited upstairs

Well if you are saying you're unable to articulate your meaning in a lucid way that can be understood by others that is YOUR problem, not mine. However, your meaning was quite clear, so your backtracking is pretty pathetic and transparent. Having read other posts of yours on other threads it's obvious to me that I'm not the one who's a few slices short of a loaf.:rolleyes:

And who has said anything against the importance of children and families? - it's you that needs to read posts properly before mouthing off. If people want more than a couple of kids, let THEM pay for their own offspring and not expect others to. The children of feckless workshy benefit scroungers are unlikely to learn anything from their parents other than how to milk the system. Hardly an asset to the country.

[Angus]

....as I said Labour adopted Tory policy there mate and that was a costly mistake, Thatcher was right New Labour was the best thing she ever did and if you cant see that, thats your problem....Im not shifting the blame Im just pointing out where it all started and you still seem to think its fair to make ordinary hard working families suffer when it wasnt their doing. £30k is **** all for a family in London I dont care what you say, why should hard working Dr's Nurses Teachers Police Firemen (people who save lives and protect you) not have a decent standard of living while bankers are still getting massive bonuses and STILL taking the same risks as they always were?

I'm not your mate, nor ever likely to be with someone with such strange views. Nobody put a gun to Labour's metaphorical head and insisted they adopt "tory" policies. Once again you are making excuses and trying to shift the blame for Labour's OWN policies and decisions. Typical socialist deflection tactics. And as for £30k not being enough for a family to live on, once again I will ask you, what planet are you on? £30k would be riches to my son and his family who have to live in rented accommodation because they cannot get on the housing ladder. The workers you mention get subsidised housing don't they, just one of the perks eh?

There are just as many HARDWORKING people in the private sector, many of whom earn a lot less than £30k. Oh, and I'm supposed to be grateful to the workers you mention who CHOSE their professions and are equally free to CHOOSE to leave them any time they like if they don't like the pay and conditions - but they won't will they because they're bloody well paid compared to some in the private sector who are just as HARDWORKING and also have families to support. And that's coming from someone whose mother was a nurse, and whose ex husband was a fire officer. No-one is MORE entitled to a good standard of living just because they work in those professions. What you are preaching is job discrimination - pretty damn hypocritical from a socialist.

[BB_Eye]

Well if you are saying you're unable to articulate your meaning in a lucid way that can be understood by others that is YOUR problem, not mine. However, your meaning was quite clear, so your backtracking is pretty pathetic and transparent. Having read other posts of yours on other threads it's obvious to me that I'm not the one who's a few slices short of a loaf.:rolleyes:

And who has said anything against the importance of children and families? - it's you that needs to read posts properly before mouthing off. If people want more than a couple of kids, let THEM pay for their own offspring and not expect others to. The children of feckless workshy benefit scroungers are unlikely to learn anything from their parents other than how to milk the system. Hardly an asset to the country.
I blame Labour's ridiculous "lets end child poverty" scheme.

The irony

A government that pledges to end child poverty at ALL costs (personal responsibility, empowering people to help themselves, children being able to get brought up by good role models, little things like that) and they leave office with social mobility in Britain considerably worse than it was 13 years prior.

[Angus]

I blame Labour's ridiculous "lets end child poverty" scheme.

The irony

A government that pledges to end child poverty at ALL costs (personal responsibility, empowering people to help themselves, children being able to get brought up by good role models, little things like that) and they leave office with social mobility in Britain considerably worse than it was 13 years prior.

Spot on - but still some will attempt to defend the indefensible. At last this government have said what we all think - people have no right to carry on breeding in the expectation that other people will pay for their offspring. There's a case in the papers today of a jobless couple with 10 kids raking in £95,000 nett in benefits and living in a luxury house courtesy of the taxpayer. It's bloody outrageous.

[NettoSuperstar!]

I'm not your mate, nor ever likely to be with someone with such strange views. Nobody put a gun to Labour's metaphorical head and insisted they adopt "tory" policies. Once again you are making excuses and trying to shift the blame for Labour's OWN policies and decisions. Typical socialist deflection tactics. And as for £30k not being enough for a family to live on, once again I will ask you, what planet are you on? £30k would be riches to my son and his family who have to live in rented accommodation because they cannot get on the housing ladder. The workers you mention get subsidised housing don't they, just one of the perks eh?

There are just as many HARDWORKING people in the private sector, many of whom earn a lot less than £30k. Oh, and I'm supposed to be grateful to the workers you mention who CHOSE their professions and are equally free to CHOOSE to leave them any time they like if they don't like the pay and conditions - but they won't will they because they're bloody well paid compared to some in the private sector who are just as HARDWORKING and also have families to support. And that's coming from someone whose mother was a nurse, and whose ex husband was a fire officer. No-one is MORE entitled to a good standard of living just because they work in those professions. What you are preaching is job discrimination - pretty damn hypocritical from a socialist.

Ok let me break it down nice and simple for you, Im so sorry factual information is so baffling and strange to you

1. We're not talking about benefit cheats we're talking about hard working people bringing up the next generation and it being a travesty attacking hard working parents for *peanuts (*peanuts being the revenue generated from your suggestion) when there are billions of pounds lost in tax evasion every year and the richest 10% have got wealthier during the recession and so called period of austerity

2. If that doesnt make you angry theres something wrong with you

3. The so called bloated public sector is being made a scapegoat (along with benefit cheats) to deflect attention away from the real issues. Labours spending barely changed and was sometimes lower than the last Tory govts (aside from a cash injection for crumbling schools and hospitals etc)

4. noones saying the public sector shouldnt take some of the burden but the scale of the cuts on the table is alarming you might want to look into that

5. the lowest paid (public and private sector) without access to affordable housing (still waiting on that one) are living in poverty and thats a travesty. subsidized housing? what planet are you on? Oh and the people that go into nursing, teaching etc value people over money and are not responsible for the state of the lowest paid in the private sector.

6. If you think for one second it would have been different on a Tory watch your quite deluded

[Angus]

Ok let me break it down nice and simple for you, Im so sorry factual information is so baffling and strange to you

1. We're not talking about benefit cheats we're talking about hard working people bringing up the next generation and it being a travesty attacking hard working parents for peanuts when there are billions of pounds lost in tax evasion every year and the richest 10% have got wealthier during the recession and so called period of austerity

2. If that doesnt make you angry theres something wrong with you

3. The so called bloated public sector is being made a scapegoat (along with benefit cheats) to deflect attention away from the real issues. Labours spending barely changed and was sometimes lower than the last Tory govts (aside from a cash injection for crumbling schools and hospitals etc)

4. noones saying the public sector shouldnt take some of the burden but the scale of the cuts on the table is alarming you might want to look into that

5. the lowest paid (public and private sector) without access to affordable housing (still waiting on that one) are living in poverty and thats a travesty. subsidized housing? what planet are you on? Oh and the people that go into nursing, teaching etc value people over money and are not responsible for the state of the lowest paid in the private sector.

6. If you think for one second it would have been different on a Tory watch your quite deluded



I can't have a serious debate with someone who thinks £30k a year is peanuts. I and plenty of people I know live on far less, AND in London, AND doing long hours, AND don't expect bloody handouts because they CHOSE to have kids. How dare you sneer at such a wage. You really are living in cloud cuckoo land. I have two sons both in full time employment and one supporting a family of four without handouts, and he is on nowhere near £30k.
You need to get your head out of your arse and join the real world where HARDWORKING people work rather than scrounge and make sensible choices about whether or not they can afford to have children.

So take your elitist opinions and shove them where the sun don't shine.

As for your last point, you can only speculate my dear, so you're the deluded one, going on about what might have been, instead of what actually happened. A bit hypocritical of you isn't it if you want to discuss actual FACTS. You lose the argument already, because here you are whingeing about necessary cuts in public spending which at least the TORIES are tackling. What did you expect after that socialist shower of useless incompetents mortgaging this country for the foreseeable future because of their profligacy? Labour are guilty in the first degree for encouraging feckless, lazy, bone idle benefit scroungers, to the extent that those in genuine need get pushed to the back of the queue, and are forced to jump through hoops to get their entitlements, because they are honest and don't know how to play the system. Why should pensioners who have worked and contributed to the system all their lives be living in poverty whilst layabouts who've never had a job have loads of kids they can't afford to keep themselves? I can't see their offspring being the saviours of this country when they grow up either:rolleyes:

Your so called "facts" are laughable - lifted straight from the Labour Book entitled "Do as I say, Not what I do". Lucky you, to be on a salary of over £30k - if you can't manage on that there's something wrong with YOU.

Let's hope the government keeps the cuts coming and end this dependancy culture once and for all.

[Kazanne]

Agree on all points Angus has made,why do so many people think this country owes them a living,far too many lazy buggars scrounging off the state,far too many ministers helping themselves to the coffers and banks who gorge on money handed to them like it's going out of fashion and paying all this ?is the poor sods who can actually bother to get up and work and pay taxes,Good for Mr Cameron,at last a PM who is doing something that the lazy sods will hate.!!

[Ammi]

I can't have a serious debate with someone who thinks £30k a year is peanuts. I and plenty of people I know live on far less, AND in London, AND doing long hours, AND don't expect bloody handouts because they CHOSE to have kids. How dare you sneer at such a wage. You really are living in cloud cuckoo land. I have two sons both in full time employment and one supporting a family of four without handouts, and he is on nowhere near £30k.
You need to get your head out of your arse and join the real world where HARDWORKING people work rather than scrounge and make sensible choices about whether or not they can afford to have children.

So take your elitist opinions and shove them where the sun don't shine.

As for your last point, you can only speculate my dear, so you're the deluded one, going on about what might have been, instead of what actually happened. A bit hypocritical of you isn't it if you want to discuss actual FACTS. You lose the argument already, because here you are whingeing about necessary cuts in public spending which at least the TORIES are tackling. What did you expect after that socialist shower of useless incompetents mortgaging this country for the foreseeable future because of their profligacy? Labour are guilty in the first degree for encouraging feckless, lazy, bone idle benefit scroungers, to the extent that those in genuine need get pushed to the back of the queue, and are forced to jump through hoops to get their entitlements, because they are honest and don't know how to play the system. Why should pensioners who have worked and contributed to the system all their lives be living in poverty whilst layabouts who've never had a job have loads of kids they can't afford to keep themselves? I can't see their offspring being the saviours of this country when they grow up either:rolleyes:

Your so called "facts" are laughable - lifted straight from the Labour Book entitled "Do as I say, Not what I do". Lucky you, to be on a salary of over £30k - if you can't manage on that there's something wrong with YOU.

Let's hope the government keeps the cuts coming and end this dependancy culture once and for all.

What I can't get my head round is that there are so many people (voters) out there who still believe that Labour did a great job and lay blame anywhere else other than where it lies. Labour is a benefit government and always has been. Everytime they are voted in they leave the country in huge debt. The elderly who have worked hard their whole lives, have in some cases fought for their country are left to rot by the country they fought for. People who find themselves alone to raise their families because of the death of a partner or being abandoned find it difficult to claim anything to get them back on their feet while others who choose not to work have higher incomes handed out to them than the rest of us can earn by working. The Labour government have made sure people are so comfortable on benefits and have catered for their every need, they've taken away any incentive for them to work. Labour have manipulated unemployment figures by taking on extra government employees on 'fixed term' contracts to lower the figures - contracts which are due to end in March 2011 so it ties in nicely with their loss of power - and they've been employed in the Department of Work and Pensions to cope with the extra work involved in the increased benefits they pay out. There is less money invested in education and healthcare than ever. There is less money in pensions for people who have worked hard their entire lives. My partner and I have been unemployed in the past and thank god we have survived these bad times with the help of our families. We have never claimed a benefit of any kind in our lives, even when we were entitled because I've always felt there are worse off people who need it more. And there are, but they are not the ones the Labour favour.
I cannot believe there are people out there who believe otherwise.

[Ammi]

On 'This Morning' right now some pathetic couple with 7 children, living on benefits. She say's its her 'right' as a woman to have children (but not her right to pay for them apparently) He says he can't get a job that he would 'like' doing so he wont bother coming off benefits but he might think about it if he found a job he would enjoy. She says she'll have 20 children if she wants its her right. What *******ing planet - have them castrated - These 'adults' are children and Labour is their parent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Angus]

On 'This Morning' right now some pathetic couple with 7 children, living on benefits. She say's its her 'right' as a woman to have children (but not her right to pay for them apparently) He says he can't get a job that he would 'like' doing so he wont bother coming off benefits but he might think about it if he found a job he would enjoy. She says she'll have 20 children if she wants its her right. What *******ing planet - have them castrated - These 'adults' are children and Labour is their parent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Glad I missed that or I would probably have thrown something at the television:mad: This is the sort of mindset that Labour has encouraged.

I'm done debating with idiots still apportioning blame everywhere except where it belongs. LABOUR had THIRTEEN years in power, so why are people still making excuses for this morally bereft government, who cynically "imported" voters - which unfortunately for them didn't work for them this time did it?

My sons will probably never be able to get on the housing ladder, so my heart isn't bleeding for a lot of people in the public sector cushioned from the realities the rest of us have to cope with. If they don't like it, let them try finding work in the private sector. It's disgusting that 80% of new jobs created whilst Labour were in power have gone to immigrants. So much for working hard ALL MY LIFE and paying my taxes and national insurance contributions, bringing up my sons, as a single parent for many years, without claiming handouts, and instilling in them a sense of responsibility and independence, only to find that they are the ones shoved to the back of the queue whilst newcomers to this country muscle their way to the front.

Silly me, I should have just let them run wild, impregnate little slags, and allow other people to pick up the bill for their fecklessness.:rolleyes:

[Ammi]

Glad I missed that or I would probably have thrown something at the television:mad: This is the sort of mindset that Labour has encouraged.

I'm done debating with idiots still apportioning blame everywhere except where it belongs. LABOUR had THIRTEEN years in power, so why are people still making excuses for this morally bereft government, who cynically "imported" voters - which unfortunately for them didn't work for them this time did it?

My sons will probably never be able to get on the housing ladder, so my heart isn't bleeding for a lot of people in the public sector cushioned from the realities the rest of us have to cope with. If they don't like it, let them try finding work in the private sector. It's disgusting that 80% of new jobs created whilst Labour were in power have gone to immigrants. So much for working hard ALL MY LIFE and paying my taxes and national insurance contributions, bringing up my sons, as a single parent for many years, without claiming handouts, and instilling in them a sense of responsibility and independence, only to find that they are the ones shoved to the back of the queue whilst newcomers to this country muscle their way to the front.

Silly me, I should have just let them run wild, impregnate little slags, and allow other people to pick up the bill for their fecklessness.:rolleyes:

I agree I had already come to the conclusion that 'being a good role model' is a thing of the past. My mum used to tell me 'cheats don't prosper' - we can't say that to our kids because all around them its quite obvious they do. Hard work, conscientiosness, honesty - all a thing of the past. Scams and scroungers - our future? So sad but so true. However I'm proud of my kids and that they work and pay taxes and are self sufficient for what thats worth these days

[InOne]

On 'This Morning' right now some pathetic couple with 7 children, living on benefits. She say's its her 'right' as a woman to have children (but not her right to pay for them apparently) He says he can't get a job that he would 'like' doing so he wont bother coming off benefits but he might think about it if he found a job he would enjoy. She says she'll have 20 children if she wants its her right. What *******ing planet - have them castrated - These 'adults' are children and Labour is their parent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I saw that. Bet it made a lot of people very angry. The guy seemed ok but the woman had a really warped sense of reality. God knows what her kids are like.

[NettoSuperstar!]

I can't have a serious debate with someone who thinks £30k a year is peanuts. I and plenty of people I know live on far less, AND in London, AND doing long hours, AND don't expect bloody handouts because they CHOSE to have kids. How dare you sneer at such a wage. You really are living in cloud cuckoo land. I have two sons both in full time employment and one supporting a family of four without handouts, and he is on nowhere near £30k.
You need to get your head out of your arse and join the real world where HARDWORKING people work rather than scrounge and make sensible choices about whether or not they can afford to have children.

So take your elitist opinions and shove them where the sun don't shine.

As for your last point, you can only speculate my dear, so you're the deluded one, going on about what might have been, instead of what actually happened. A bit hypocritical of you isn't it if you want to discuss actual FACTS. You lose the argument already, because here you are whingeing about necessary cuts in public spending which at least the TORIES are tackling. What did you expect after that socialist shower of useless incompetents mortgaging this country for the foreseeable future because of their profligacy? Labour are guilty in the first degree for encouraging feckless, lazy, bone idle benefit scroungers, to the extent that those in genuine need get pushed to the back of the queue, and are forced to jump through hoops to get their entitlements, because they are honest and don't know how to play the system. Why should pensioners who have worked and contributed to the system all their lives be living in poverty whilst layabouts who've never had a job have loads of kids they can't afford to keep themselves? I can't see their offspring being the saviours of this country when they grow up either:rolleyes:

Your so called "facts" are laughable - lifted straight from the Labour Book entitled "Do as I say, Not what I do". Lucky you, to be on a salary of over £30k - if you can't manage on that there's something wrong with YOU.

Let's hope the government keeps the cuts coming and end this dependancy culture once and for all.

Again you keep going back to lazy scroungers (which isnt everyone on benefits and also Labour didnt introduce the welfare state in 1997 lol) ...we are NOT talking about that here, we are talking about HONEST WORKING CONTRIBUTING people.

Im sorry but your anecdotal evidence isnt universally applicable, its not a black and white world and whilst many families on 30 k will be comfortable, with the current lack of affordable housing and high childcare costs some wont easliy afford a drop. lets face it 30 k is the combined income of two parents on an unskilled/semi skilled wage (eg/ a support worker and a binman...hardly middle class)...or a single parent paying high rent charges and childcare costs may struggle...particularly those that have to commute a distance to work. claiming child support when you are a contributing member of society is not scrounging, it is what we pay our taxes for, that and a decent education for our kids, a decent healthcare system, police protection etc etc...

http://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/policy_library/policy_library_folder/the_human_cost_-_how_the_lack_of_affordable_housing_impacts_on_all _aspects_of_life

And the main point is cutting vital services and support for the ordinary working people of Britain whilst ignoring the huges loss in govt income from tax avoidance and the fact that the financial sector have paid little consequence for their actions and are free to carry on as before is a CRIME. And they might want to tackle the disproportionate gap between the highest earners and lowest in the private sector too

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Documents/PCSTaxGap.pdf

Labours public spending record....hardly any difference from the previous Tory govt (prior to the global finacial crisis and the drop in tax revenue since that time)

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_debt_chart.html

[Angus]

Again you keep going back to lazy scroungers (which isnt everyone on benefits and also the Labour didnt introduce the welfare state in 1997 lol) ...we are NOT talking about that here, we are talking about HONEST WORKING CONTRIBUTING people.

Im sorry but your anecdotal evidence isnt universally applicable, its not a black and white world and whilst many families on 30 k will be comfortable, with the current lack of affordable housing and high childcare costs some wont easliy afford a drop. lets face it 30 k is the combined income of two parents on an unskilled/semi skilled wage (eg/ a support worker and a binman...hardly middle class)...or a single parent paying high rent charges and childcare costs may struggle...particularly those that have to commute a distance to work. claiming child support when you are a contributing member of society is not scrounging, it is what we pay our taxes for, that and a decent education for our kids, a decent healthcare system, police protection etc etc...

http://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/policy_library/policy_library_folder/the_human_cost_-_how_the_lack_of_affordable_housing_impacts_on_all _aspects_of_life

And the main point is cutting vital services and support for the ordinary working people of Britain whilst ignoring the huges loss in govt income from tax avoidance and the fact that the financial sector have paid little consequence for their actions and are free to carry on as before is a CRIME. And they might want to tackle the disproportionate gap between the highest earners and lowest in the private sector too

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Documents/PCSTaxGap.pdf

Labours public spending record....hardly any difference from the previous Tory govt (prior to the global finacial crisis and the drop in tax revenue since that time)

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_debt_chart.html


You are a totally deluded labour apologist who will not accept that 13 years of mismanagement and incompetence has led us once again to a precipice from which the incoming government are left to try and pull us back. No doubt you also support strike action too that always affects the ordinary HARDWORKING folk in this country. Personally, I hope the government fight the selfish and greedy unions, since no one sector of the workforce in this country should be able to hold the rest of us to ransom. I have no time for avaricious union bosses encouraging (one would even say forcing) members to strike to cause the maximum disruption and upset for the rest of us, out of some selfish determination to preserve jobs and privileges for their own, with no thought as to who will pick up the tab. I have always loathed and detested trade unions and I can still remember the Callaghan government when the unions practically ruined this country. Let's hope this government take them on and defeat them.

And don't try and twist my words - both my sons are HARDWORKING and in FULL TIME EMPLOYMENT, one of whom supports a family of 4, and both are on a lot less than £30k. Neither of them were brought up to think the world OWES them a living. They contribute to society and pay their taxes so what the hell are you on about?

Furthermore, Labour HAS encouraged the workshy, feckless, scrounging layabouts we see all about us with their hordes of kids that other people pay for, so don't deny it. Cut their benefits and force them to take any job and CONTRIBUTE instead of sitting on their fat arses and expecting others to keep them. You seem to think the world owes everybody a living! Well it doesn't. These are hard times and people should be glad they've even got a job these days. It's about time that welfare benefits were reined in for all but the truly needy, not seen as a lifestyle choice for lazy gits.

It's pointless trying to debate with a dyed in the wool socialist who puts the blame everywhere but where it deserves to be, and what's more discriminates in favour of those working in the public sector as if they are somehow MORE important than the rest of us.

Oh, and what about all the above issues you mention that need addressing? Ask yourself why Labour, who had THIRTEEN long years in power, DID NOTHING, and in fact left us in a worse state, yet here you are still defending them and their appalling record. This present government's immediate concerns is to cut spending and most normal, sensible, reasonable people with even a basic grasp of economics and housekeeping know that it has to be done.

I can't be arsed to respond to any more of your posts - I've made my position clear, and we will never agree in a million years.

[Beastie]

On 'This Morning' right now some pathetic couple with 7 children, living on benefits. She say's its her 'right' as a woman to have children (but not her right to pay for them apparently) He says he can't get a job that he would 'like' doing so he wont bother coming off benefits but he might think about it if he found a job he would enjoy. She says she'll have 20 children if she wants its her right. What *******ing planet - have them castrated - These 'adults' are children and Labour is their parent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's the government's right to change the law. Cut the scroungers off their benefits and see what happens then ;)

Then they should have their children taken away if they can't feed or shelter them properly!

Disgusting woman!

[Beastie]

"without children our future is ****ed "


You need to watch the DVD or BluRay
Surrogates starring Bruce Willis.

Life In The Fast Lane.

There are too many people in the world as it is.

There is no need for families to have lots of children IF they can't afford them.

If they want big families but CANNOT afford them.. why don't they have a job in a school? Be a nursery nurse or teacher or child minder.. then you are with lots of children everyday and doing something useful and not scrounging off the government to bring up your own sprogs :thumbs:

Amen!

[Tom]

On 'This Morning' right now some pathetic couple with 7 children, living on benefits. She say's its her 'right' as a woman to have children (but not her right to pay for them apparently) He says he can't get a job that he would 'like' doing so he wont bother coming off benefits but he might think about it if he found a job he would enjoy. She says she'll have 20 children if she wants its her right. What *******ing planet - have them castrated - These 'adults' are children and Labour is their parent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A cap needs putting on it in cases like that when women are only popping more out for the benefits and for peopel like him, well they shouldn't even be on benefits. I reckon they should recieve shopping vouchers instead that can only be spent on certain thinsg so that if they want some kind of social life then they'll have to go out and god forbid ... get a job.

[NettoSuperstar!]

You are a totally deluded labour apologist who will not accept that 13 years of mismanagement and incompetence has led us once again to a precipice from which the incoming government are left to try and pull us back. No doubt you also support strike action too that always affects the ordinary HARDWORKING folk in this country. Personally, I hope the government fight the selfish and greedy unions, since no one sector of the workforce in this country should be able to hold the rest of us to ransom. I have no time for avaricious union bosses encouraging (one would even say forcing) members to strike to cause the maximum disruption and upset for the rest of us, out of some selfish determination to preserve jobs and privileges for their own, with no thought as to who will pick up the tab. I have always loathed and detested trade unions and I can still remember the Callaghan government when the unions practically ruined this country. Let's hope this government take them on and defeat them.

And don't try and twist my words - both my sons are HARDWORKING and in FULL TIME EMPLOYMENT, one of whom supports a family of 4, and both are on a lot less than £30k. Neither of them were brought up to think the world OWES them a living. They contribute to society and pay their taxes so what the hell are you on about?

Furthermore, Labour HAS encouraged the workshy, feckless, scrounging layabouts we see all about us with their hordes of kids that other people pay for, so don't deny it. Cut their benefits and force them to take any job and CONTRIBUTE instead of sitting on their fat arses and expecting others to keep them. You seem to think the world owes everybody a living! Well it doesn't. These are hard times and people should be glad they've even got a job these days. It's about time that welfare benefits were reined in for all but the truly needy, not seen as a lifestyle choice for lazy gits.

It's pointless trying to debate with a dyed in the wool socialist who puts the blame everywhere but where it deserves to be, and what's more discriminates in favour of those working in the public sector as if they are somehow MORE important than the rest of us.

Oh, and what about all the above issues you mention that need addressing? Ask yourself why Labour, who had THIRTEEN long years in power, DID NOTHING, and in fact left us in a worse state, yet here you are still defending them and their appalling record. This present government's immediate concerns is to cut spending and most normal, sensible, reasonable people with even a basic grasp of economics and housekeeping know that it has to be done.

I can't be arsed to respond to any more of your posts - I've made my position clear, and we will never agree in a million years.


Again, this is not about defending Labour, I am pointing out that they have pretty much continued where the Tories left off aside from a few things like the minimum wage, working time directive, modernising schools and hospitals...so any argument that their spending got us in this mess is a lie.

I am also not a socialist and I'll ignore most of the rant as I havent even mentioned most of it, except to say Im not a socialist, I believe in fairness, equal opportunities, workers rights (for ALL workers and within reason) I dont believe in striking without very good reason and with support of the majority of workers involved. I believe we should have decent public services to enable us to continue to be productive and contribute to society. If you disagree with that then yes we will never see eye to eye, oh well

Yeh benefit cheats are piss takers and we need to deal with them, theyre generally the uneducated and we should be intervening where kids arent going to school, perhaps withholding child benefit as part of that intervention. If children dont even get an education what hope have they got? We shouldnt be dealing with it by penalising ordinary hard working people. But the biggest piss takers are in those in the financial sector that got us in this mess who are taking billions of pounds a year in bonuses and stashing their money in offshore accounts, I know who I'm more angry with!

The scale of the cuts (EDIT: The ConDemns are planning (ok Arista)) is alarming and should be handled better and with real fairness END OF

[arista]

"The scale of the cuts is alarming"

Hang on a Minute
we do not know yet.

20 oct. is the day we find out.

[arista]

"(EDIT: The tories are planning (ok Arista)) "#

No its Conservative - LibDem Power.

[NettoSuperstar!]

"(EDIT: The tories are planning (ok Arista)) "#

No its Conservative - LibDem Power.

Ya like the Lib Dems get any say lol...they get thrown a few titbits from the Tory table haha

[arista]

"like the Lib Dems get any say "

Yes they do.
Nick Clegg is doing that today.

It is a 2 party power - End Of.

[NettoSuperstar!]

"like the Lib Dems get any say "

Yes they do.
Nick Clegg is doing that today.

It is a 2 party power - End Of.

Keep on keeping on Arista...We're ConDemned lol

[Livia]

Well maybe if you ever know someone who earns over 44k and isn't in the picture perfect idea everyone seems to have that their loaded you'll think differently.

If they earn over 44k pa I don't particularly want my tax going to pay for them to have an extra few quid in their pocket because they chose to have kids. I already pay into an education system for their children.

Child benefit was brought in after the war to help ease poverty and to boost birth rates. We don't need that incentive anymore. Child benefit should only go to those on a low wage.

[Angus]

If they earn over 44k pa I don't particularly want my tax going to pay for them to have an extra few quid in their pocket because they chose to have kids. I already pay into an education system for their children.

Child benefit was brought in after the war to help ease poverty and to boost birth rates. We don't need that incentive anymore. Child benefit should only go to those on a low wage.

Exactly - in a nutshell.

[joeysteele]

If they earn over 44k pa I don't particularly want my tax going to pay for them to have an extra few quid in their pocket because they chose to have kids. I already pay into an education system for their children.

Child benefit was brought in after the war to help ease poverty and to boost birth rates. We don't need that incentive anymore. Child benefit should only go to those on a low wage.

I am not working yet as I am at Uni but I have to say I agree 100% with this comment, it says everything really.