USA - Mid-Term Elections

[MTVN]

This should be interesting tonight, looking like the Democrats are definitely gonna lose the House.

It's a bit of a tricky situation in America really. On the one hand, I've never really been a fan of Obama, I felt he won the election on rhetoric, empty calls for change (he never really seemed to say what he was going to change), and the fact that everyone got swept up with this idea of having a black President. 2 years in he seems to have achieved very little of any real benefit to the economy, and he hasnt lived up to a lot of his promises.

The trouble is that some of the opposition on the Republican side, mainly in the form of the Tea Party, is made up by morons. People who want creationism taught in schools, people who oppose abortion even in the case of rape or incest, people who have no real idea how to run a country. There are some more moderate and logical Republicans, but the party is marred somewhat by the Tea Party twats.

[Patrick]

Not to be rude,

But what relevance is this to us?
I was on Youtube last night and they were ******ing advertising it on videos about BBUK and Eastenders and I was like 'No one here gives a sh*t or can even vote so gt.fo!'

[MTVN]

Not to be rude,

But what relevance is this to us?
I was on Youtube last night and they were ******ing advertising it on videos about BBUK and Eastenders and I was like 'No one here gives a sh*t or can even vote so gt.fo!'

Well considering our countrys relationship with America, and the influence they have over the world, it's bound to affect us in some way.

And I just find it interesting, cos I'm sad like that :blush:

[Tom]

Its becoming more and more obvious that he was only elected in the first place because he was "black" (even though he looks more mixed race if anything). Now the novelty has worn off people can see through the facade and see that he's actually quite crap

[Shaun]

-sigh-
Patrick. This is big person talk.

I'm unfortunately inclined to agree with Tom. There was a wave of hysteria and 'hope', as well as the attraction of making history. The sad thing is they had an opportunity to also make history with another candidate - one who's got years of experience, and has thrived as Secretary of State.

Hillary. Was. Robbed.

As for the midterms - I can't see the democrats losing TOO many seats (do they call them seats?) the Republicans aren't nearly popular enough yet.

[MTVN]

-sigh-
Patrick. This is big person talk.

I'm unfortunately inclined to agree with Tom. There was a wave of hysteria and 'hope', as well as the attraction of making history. The sad thing is they had an opportunity to also make history with another candidate - one who's got years of experience, and has thrived as Secretary of State.

Hillary. Was. Robbed.

As for the midterms - I can't see the democrats losing TOO many seats (do they call them seats?) the Republicans aren't nearly popular enough yet.

I agree Hilary was a far better candidate, one of the only successes of Obama's Presidence so far has been her approach to foreign policy.

The Republicans are expected to gain 56 seats in the House I think, be interesting to see how true that prediction is.

[BB_Eye]

I agree Hilary was a far better candidate, one of the only successes of Obama's Presidence so far has been her approach to foreign policy.

The Republicans are expected to gain 56 seats in the House I think, be interesting to see how true that prediction is.
I was actually beginning to like Hillary until the wikileak scandal, where she focused all of her energy into finding and punishing the people responsible for the leak as opposed to the people who gave Iraqi locals carte blanche to torture suspected insurgents.

I doubt things would have been much different with Hillary in power.

[joeysteele]

Not to be rude,

But what relevance is this to us?
I was on Youtube last night and they were ******ing advertising it on videos about BBUK and Eastenders and I was like 'No one here gives a sh*t or can even vote so gt.fo!'


I am stunned with myself and can hardly believe I am saying this but I actually agree with Patrick on this one, I get tired of wall to wall coverage of the USA in relation to elections there.

Yes they are important but we only need to know what happens not the whole long drawn out process.

Like Patrick says, the whole thing is everywhere,you can hardly escape it,if at all.

[arista]

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2010/Nov/Week1/15791565.jpg

[Livia]

Seems to me the backlash is mostly from people who hate Obama because he's black. The USA had that buffoon George W Bush as their president for EIGHT YEARS! Amazing really that the rich white boy was allowed to carry on regardless of the fact he was one of the stupidest people on the planet. Now they're turning against Obama because he couldn't end a global recession in a year. Seems like a bit of a big ask.

[Shaun]

Seems to me the backlash is mostly from people who hate Obama because he's black. The USA had that buffoon George W Bush as their president for EIGHT YEARS! Amazing really that the rich white boy was allowed to carry on regardless of the fact he was one of the stupidest people on the planet. Now they're turning against Obama because he couldn't end a global recession in a year. Seems like a bit of a big ask.

Whilst I agree with you about him having far too high expectations to live up to, I don't think race has anything to do with it. By its very nature, the lost supporters will have voted for him.

I think people are regretting getting swept along in a very glamorous campaign. But I do agree with you - they are turning on him far too soon. Besides, his results with universal healthcare, announcing the end of involvement in Iraq... you'd think that would be enough to secure him.

[MTVN]

Seems to me the backlash is mostly from people who hate Obama because he's black. The USA had that buffoon George W Bush as their president for EIGHT YEARS! Amazing really that the rich white boy was allowed to carry on regardless of the fact he was one of the stupidest people on the planet. Now they're turning against Obama because he couldn't end a global recession in a year. Seems like a bit of a big ask.

Oh come off it! Even a lot of Democrats are now acknowledging that Obama's first 2 years (not one) have not lived up to expectations. The criticism directed at Obama has nothing to do with the fact that he's black, not with the vast majority of Americans.

Job figures are still terrible, house possessions have continued to rise, he has done little to correct the deficit, he was unable to effectively handle he BP oil spill, and while he did eventually push through his health reforms, most Americans felt their money was being wasted. His climate change bill was abandoned, Guantanamo hasnt been shut down, he has made no progress in Afghanistan, I could go on. Obviously he could not have been expected to solve all off the countrys problems but he could have made some progress. He has had a few successes I admit, but his failures far outweight those.

[GiRTh]

Seems to me the backlash is mostly from people who hate Obama because he's black. The USA had that buffoon George W Bush as their president for EIGHT YEARS! Amazing really that the rich white boy was allowed to carry on regardless of the fact he was one of the stupidest people on the planet. Now they're turning against Obama because he couldn't end a global recession in a year. Seems like a bit of a big ask.Totally agree with you. There seems to be a backlash against Obama despite his ground breaking health care reform.

Midterms are not much of a barometer. Clinton lost over 60 seats in the house in 1994 but still won the election in 96.

[Benjamin]

I am stunned with myself and can hardly believe I am saying this but I actually agree with Patrick on this one, I get tired of wall to wall coverage of the USA in relation to elections there.

Yes they are important but we only need to know what happens not the whole long drawn out process.

Like Patrick says, the whole thing is everywhere,you can hardly escape it,if at all.



Not to burst your bubble, but some of us are actually interested in this, so if you don't like it, don't come into the thread.

[Shaun]

I personally haven't seen much coverage of the elections until today. But still, they're important. More important than some bloody French/UK treaty about troops-sharing anyway.

[Angus]

Black, white, pink, green - who cares what colour he is? The fact that he's a Democrat is the problem. Yet again, style over substance, always has been, always will be.

[joeysteele]

I only meant the near blanket coverage on TV in the Uk that USA elections get, I love these kind of analytic and very important threads which open up debate on serious issues.

I said it was important.Its very important and I am also pleased to see that Obama is getting a rebuff,I am sure millions of people in the UK will be talking about this today, that is what I meant ,we really here in the UK, only need to know the results and the implications of them..

If I was in the States and could vote, then I prefer the Republican party so I am happier this morning to learn of the election results.

[BB_Eye]

Seems to me the backlash is mostly from people who hate Obama because he's black. The USA had that buffoon George W Bush as their president for EIGHT YEARS! Amazing really that the rich white boy was allowed to carry on regardless of the fact he was one of the stupidest people on the planet. Now they're turning against Obama because he couldn't end a global recession in a year. Seems like a bit of a big ask.
Well technically it's two years or rather a year and ten months, but I agree the yanks are overreacting. It's as if it only took that length of time for them to forget that W. was the worst president ever.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Seems to me the backlash is mostly from people who hate Obama because he's black. The USA had that buffoon George W Bush as their president for EIGHT YEARS! Amazing really that the rich white boy was allowed to carry on regardless of the fact he was one of the stupidest people on the planet. Now they're turning against Obama because he couldn't end a global recession in a year. Seems like a bit of a big ask.

is pretty much how it is

[Livia]

Oh come off it! Even a lot of Democrats are now acknowledging that Obama's first 2 years (not one) have not lived up to expectations. The criticism directed at Obama has nothing to do with the fact that he's black, not with the vast majority of Americans.

Job figures are still terrible, house possessions have continued to rise, he has done little to correct the deficit, he was unable to effectively handle he BP oil spill, and while he did eventually push through his health reforms, most Americans felt their money was being wasted. His climate change bill was abandoned, Guantanamo hasnt been shut down, he has made no progress in Afghanistan, I could go on. Obviously he could not have been expected to solve all off the countrys problems but he could have made some progress. He has had a few successes I admit, but his failures far outweight those.


So you think during the time he's been in office, all of the problems you listed should have been sorted out? Or at least have begun to be sorted? The electorate thinks their money has been wasted... nothing new there, sounds like every country in the world. Guantanamo was shut down... about time too. His climate change bill was abandoned because Americans are gas-junkies who refuse to acknowledge there's a problem with climate change. He's made no progress in Afghanistan... and neither has every other country that's ever fought the Afghans so why would you think Obama could make a change in a year and a half? Home repossessions and a large deficit are not limited to the USA, it's happening all over the developed world.

I think the fact that Obama's black has MUCH to do with his current unpopularity. Watching one programme recently one of the Tea Party nutters was carrying a banner that said "Go home to Kenya". Or maybe you didn't see that. Or maybe you haven't heard that they're accusing him of not even being American! Your gun-toting, red-neck Republican is not down with having a black boy in the Whitehouse. And if you don't think that's really an issue, then you're dreaming.

[Tom4784]

Judge Obama on his achievements when his term has ended, hardly anything in politics happens quickly and he's put in place some long needed bills and such that's gonna help America when it comes to fruition. It could always be worse, Sarah Palin could have potentially had power *shudders*

[arista]

Judge Obama on his achievements when his term has ended, hardly anything in politics happens quickly and he's put in place some long needed bills and such that's gonna help America when it comes to fruition. It could always be worse, Sarah Palin could have potentially had power *shudders*


And worse
The Republicans are no good
as a New Party - the TEA party was started
by Glen Beck of Fox News who are UnFair and UnBalanced.

Why did a New Party get started
because of Pathetic Palin and the rest of those losers.

[GiRTh]

And worse
The Rubulicans are no good
as a New Party - the TEA party was started
by Glen Beck of Fox News who are UnFair and UnBalanced.

Why did a New Party get started
because of Pathetic Palin and the rest of those losers.There's no one fair on Fox News.

[arista]

There's no one fair on Fox News.


True.


Thery are Fun to watch at times.

[MTVN]

So you think during the time he's been in office, all of the problems you listed should have been sorted out? Or at least have begun to be sorted? The electorate thinks their money has been wasted... nothing new there, sounds like every country in the world. Guantanamo was shut down... about time too. His climate change bill was abandoned because Americans are gas-junkies who refuse to acknowledge there's a problem with climate change. He's made no progress in Afghanistan... and neither has every other country that's ever fought the Afghans so why would you think Obama could make a change in a year and a half? Home repossessions and a large deficit are not limited to the USA, it's happening all over the developed world.

I think the fact that Obama's black has MUCH to do with his current unpopularity. Watching one programme recently one of the Tea Party nutters was carrying a banner that said "Go home to Kenya". Or maybe you didn't see that. Or maybe you haven't heard that they're accusing him of not even being American! Your gun-toting, red-neck Republican is not down with having a black boy in the Whitehouse. And if you don't think that's really an issue, then you're dreaming.

You expect him to make some progress after close to 2 years in office. Two years ago unemployment in the States was 7.7%; now it's 9.6%. If that is not a failure I dont know what is. Ironically, unemployment has been rising the most among those who Obama promised to help, those who voted him into power: young people, black people and the white working class.

I'm not saying that all of America's economic problems should have been solved, they were too large for him to have done that completely. But that was something he didnt acknowledge back during his campaign, he was misleading as to his limitations.

And Livia, I seem to recall you supporting the Tories cuts to the public sector? If that is the case then why are you adamantly defending Obama when his only solution has been to try and stimulate recovery through high state spending which has effectively failed.

The Tea Party are morons, I never denied that, I'm happy to admit it. I'm sure some of them are racially prejudiced against Obama, but they are not the only ones who have criticised his Presidency. He has an approval rating on 37%, and that is not to do with his race. Believe it or not, not all opposition to Obama has been from racist, gun-toting, deep-South Republicans.

Obama's first two years have been a failure, no matter what spin you put on it, or how you try and excuse it.

[arista]

"Obama's first two years have been a failure, no matter what spin you put on it,"


True so the Next two more years are his only chance.

[Livia]

You expect him to make some progress after close to 2 years in office. Two years ago unemployment in the States was 7.7%; now it's 9.6%. If that is not a failure I dont know what is. Ironically, unemployment has been rising the most among those who Obama promised to help, those who voted him into power: young people, black people and the white working class.

I'm not saying that all of America's economic problems should have been solved, they were too large for him to have done that completely. But that was something he didnt acknowledge back during his campaign, he was misleading as to his limitations.

And Livia, I seem to recall you supporting the Tories cuts to the public sector? If that is the case then why are you adamantly defending Obama when his only solution has been to try and stimulate recovery through high state spending which has effectively failed.

The Tea Party are morons, I never denied that, I'm happy to admit it. I'm sure some of them are racially prejudiced against Obama, but they are not the only ones who have criticised his Presidency. He has an approval rating on 37%, and that is not to do with his race. Believe it or not, not all opposition to Obama has been from racist, gun-toting, deep-South Republicans.

Obama's first two years have been a failure, no matter what spin you put on it, or how you try and excuse it.


This debate isn't about my politics, nor is it about the Tory cuts.

Obama was misleading in his election campaign about his limitations? Surely not! I mean, every other politician in the world tells the absolute truth about his limitations when he's rrunning an election campaign, right?

Things move slowly in politics. It's a fact. And while Obama's first couple of years haven't been sparkling, he has had to deal with mopping up the mess from the previous imcumbent who, let's be honest, was a hopless, rich, white. moron. Didn't seen to have to deal with the hatred that Obama's having though... funny that.

And who said anything about "deep-South Republicans?" Sarah Palin is from Alaska, is she not?

I've spent a fair bit of time in the USA and I have to admit that I am not a massive Obama fan. However, I feel a lot of the vitriol aimed at him is racially motivated. We're only a couple of decades away from Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat on a bus for a white man. There is a huge section of the public of the USA who are just not ready to hand the running of their country over to a black man.

[MTVN]

This debate isn't about my politics, nor is it about the Tory cuts.

Obama was misleading in his election campaign about his limitations? Surely not! I mean, every other politician in the world tells the absolute truth about his limitations when he's rrunning an election campaign, right?

Things move slowly in politics. It's a fact. And while Obama's first couple of years haven't been sparkling, he has had to deal with mopping up the mess from the previous imcumbent who, let's be honest, was a hopless, rich, white. moron. Didn't seen to have to deal with the hatred that Obama's having though... funny that.

And who said anything about "deep-South Republicans?" Sarah Palin is from Alaska, is she not?

I've spent a fair bit of time in the USA and I have to admit that I am not a massive Obama fan. However, I feel a lot of the vitriol aimed at him is racially motivated. We're only a couple of decades away from Rosa Parks refusing to give up her seat on a bus for a white man. There is a huge section of the public of the USA who are just not ready to hand the running of their country over to a black man.

No, most politicians dont, all I'm saying is that if you're going to pretend that you have all the answers, and that you'll be able to solve the economic problems, then dont expect not to be faced with criticism when, 2 years down the line, there is no improvement and the economy is actually worse off.

Bush was an idiot, obviously, and yes Obama has had to try and mop up the mess. Trouble is the mess has been made worse, and even if he cant have been expected to solve problems right away, he wasnt expected to increase them. And I disagree that Bush wasnt subjected to as much hatred as Obama, I think Bush actually had to deal with a lot more. He was completely discredited and humiliated throughout his Presidency, and will go down in history as one of the worst Presidents ever.

I dont doubt that America is still plagued by racism, I just dont think it should be assumed that that's where the oppostion to his Presidency is coming from. It will be interesting to see how the political situation changes in the US after the results last night, things are going to be made difficult for him that's for sure

[Tom]

You expect him to make some progress after close to 2 years in office. Two years ago unemployment in the States was 7.7%; now it's 9.6%. If that is not a failure I dont know what is. Ironically, unemployment has been rising the most among those who Obama promised to help, those who voted him into power: young people, black people and the white working class.

I'm not saying that all of America's economic problems should have been solved, they were too large for him to have done that completely. But that was something he didnt acknowledge back during his campaign, he was misleading as to his limitations.

And Livia, I seem to recall you supporting the Tories cuts to the public sector? If that is the case then why are you adamantly defending Obama when his only solution has been to try and stimulate recovery through high state spending which has effectively failed.

The Tea Party are morons, I never denied that, I'm happy to admit it. I'm sure some of them are racially prejudiced against Obama, but they are not the only ones who have criticised his Presidency. He has an approval rating on 37%, and that is not to do with his race. Believe it or not, not all opposition to Obama has been from racist, gun-toting, deep-South Republicans.

Obama's first two years have been a failure, no matter what spin you put on it, or how you try and excuse it.

Obama is seen as a failure because of the high expectations the public had of him. HE created the expectations and he is fully to blame. False hope is one of the worst things you can do.

[Lewis.]

Not to sound stupid everyone. I'm quite into my history and that, although I've always been confused about the Mid-Term elections in America. What do they actually decide, trying to put it in the process of the UK elections, I'm guessing that it just decides how many seats each political party has. But does it mean that Barack Obama will not be president anymore?

[Shaun]

Not to sound stupid everyone. I'm quite into my history and that, although I've always been confused about the Mid-Term elections in America. What do they actually decide, trying to put it in the process of the UK elections, I'm guessing that it just decides how many seats each political party has. But does it mean that Barack Obama will not be president anymore?

With the UK we have Parliamentary elections - where MPs are voted for, and the result decides which political party is in power (this political party has already put forward a candidate for Prime Minister).

However in the US there's several different legislative bodies. There's the Senate, or 'Upper House', which I believe has one or two representatives per US State. I'm not really sure what they vote for or debate - but they have a big say in what the President is and isn't allowed to do. They also deal with Bills. (proposed laws)

Then there's the House of Representatives, which deals with more laws. But they have to be passed by the Senate.

It's almost like the difference between our House of Commons and House of Lords - except, the Senate is FAR more powerful than our Lords, and they're elected :P

[arista]

Barrack Live on SkyNews & SkyNewsHD & CNN
was asked by Bloomberg if he will hit the Reset Button.
He said yes.

No longer Live on the Bloated BBC news

[arista]

Barrack Live on SkyNews & SkyNewsHD & CNN
seems more positive now

[Lewis.]

With the UK we have Parliamentary elections - where MPs are voted for, and the result decides which political party is in power (this political party has already put forward a candidate for Prime Minister).

However in the US there's several different legislative bodies. There's the Senate, or 'Upper House', which I believe has one or two representatives per US State. I'm not really sure what they vote for or debate - but they have a big say in what the President is and isn't allowed to do. They also deal with Bills. (proposed laws)

Then there's the House of Representatives, which deals with more laws. But they have to be passed by the Senate.

It's almost like the difference between our House of Commons and House of Lords - except, the Senate is FAR more powerful than our Lords, and they're elected :P

Oh right, that's made it a lot clearer :hugesmile:. So what exactly are the USA voting for at the moment then?

[Shaun]

Both Houses - Senate and Representatives.

The Democrats (Obama's party) have held onto the Senate, but the Republicans have taken the HoR.

But to answer your earlier question - Obama won't be ousted from power until (at least) the next Presidential elections, because the Presidential Elections are voting for the 'Electoral College', another different political body :P

[Lewis.]

Both Houses - Senate and Representatives.

The Democrats (Obama's party) have held onto the Senate, but the Republicans have taken the HoR.

But to answer your earlier question - Obama won't be ousted from power until (at least) the next Presidential elections, because the Presidential Elections are voting for the 'Electoral College', another different political body :P

That's so much simpler to understand than what I had a look at on Wikipedia. Thanks :hugesmile:

[joeysteele]

So you think during the time he's been in office, all of the problems you listed should have been sorted out? Or at least have begun to be sorted? The electorate thinks their money has been wasted... nothing new there, sounds like every country in the world. Guantanamo was shut down... about time too. His climate change bill was abandoned because Americans are gas-junkies who refuse to acknowledge there's a problem with climate change. He's made no progress in Afghanistan... and neither has every other country that's ever fought the Afghans so why would you think Obama could make a change in a year and a half? Home repossessions and a large deficit are not limited to the USA, it's happening all over the developed world.

I think the fact that Obama's black has MUCH to do with his current unpopularity. Watching one programme recently one of the Tea Party nutters was carrying a banner that said "Go home to Kenya". Or maybe you didn't see that. Or maybe you haven't heard that they're accusing him of not even being American! Your gun-toting, red-neck Republican is not down with having a black boy in the Whitehouse. And if you don't think that's really an issue, then you're dreaming.

Livia, brilliant post, it blows my views into space. you always make me think my position on things like this, every word you said has foundation.

I can only stand back and admire, you have me re-thinking my position on this one too.

I've said it before and I say it again, you should stand for Parliament, you'd have my vote, no hesitation.

[MTVN]

Livia, brilliant post, it blows my views into space. you always make me think my position on things like this, every word you said has foundation.

I can only stand back and admire, you have me re-thinking my position on this one too.

I've said it before and I say it again, you should stand for Parliament, you'd have my vote, no hesitation.

Funny that, yesterday you didnt give a sh*t about the mid-term elections.

[joeysteele]

I did actually and I have opinions on all issues like everyone else, all I was against was the near blanket coverage of USA matters in the UK often long before the event. I said, they were very important if you read my comments, I then also agreed with another poster who was complaining as to the USA elections all over the place.

I have relatives in the USA, I consider it all important and if you can show me anywhere where I said it wasn't important and that I had no interest in them then please do so.

I only made a point of view, that we in the UK only need to be given the results and not necessarily the blAnket coverage of elections in the USA. I also was not the only one saying that too.

As it happens I have spent a fair bit of today analysing the results with Friends.The results that is, I cannot vote in the USA so only the results interest me especially in the mid term elections, in my view and even if it is only my view,I think we don't need the analysis and coverage weeks before them near non stop on UK TV.

[arista]

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2010/Nov/Week1/15794506.jpg

[Livia]

No, most politicians dont, all I'm saying is that if you're going to pretend that you have all the answers, and that you'll be able to solve the economic problems, then dont expect not to be faced with criticism when, 2 years down the line, there is no improvement and the economy is actually worse off.

Bush was an idiot, obviously, and yes Obama has had to try and mop up the mess. Trouble is the mess has been made worse, and even if he cant have been expected to solve problems right away, he wasnt expected to increase them. And I disagree that Bush wasnt subjected to as much hatred as Obama, I think Bush actually had to deal with a lot more. He was completely discredited and humiliated throughout his Presidency, and will go down in history as one of the worst Presidents ever.

I dont doubt that America is still plagued by racism, I just dont think it should be assumed that that's where the oppostion to his Presidency is coming from. It will be interesting to see how the political situation changes in the US after the results last night, things are going to be made difficult for him that's for sure

While I don't pretend to know everything about the politics of the USA, I do know about what politicans claim and what goes into election literature because that's my job. I've written more speeches, election addresses and publicity material than most people have read, and I can assure you that politicians claim to be able to do a lot of things that could potentially take them years to achieve. Obama isn't any different. You can't expect, in all seriousness, that he is going to be able to do everything he claimed within two years. It's unrealistic.

Bush will go down in history as one of the worst presidents ever. And yet he was voted in for a second term.

I would like to think that you were right about racism not really playing a part in Obama's castigation, but I think you're wrong. We can agree to differ.

[Livia]

Livia, brilliant post, it blows my views into space. you always make me think my position on things like this, every word you said has foundation.

I can only stand back and admire, you have me re-thinking my position on this one too.

I've said it before and I say it again, you should stand for Parliament, you'd have my vote, no hesitation.

Thanks joeysteele - the cheque's in the post ;-)