What is it With the Judges and Cher?

[Lee.]

I don't want an argument as to whether or not Cher is good or not; the fact of the matter is she was out of tune last night, something not ONE of the judges picked up on.

Why won't they give her any negative feedback? I mean Simon's suggestion last weeek that her performance was "the best of the season" was complete BS!

Are they scared that if they tell her the truth, she may have a mini breakdown, thus bringing unwanted negative attention from the media similar to SuBo's breakdown?

:conf:

[Yuna]

It's obvious the producers want to keep her in the show. It's not like the judges can say whatever they want, lol.

[Jack_]

I personally don't think she was out of tune. Not the strongest vocalist, obviously, but she wasn't out of tune. And to answer your question - it's their opinion [one that they're entitled to]. That's the whole point of having Judges, for them to give their opinion. Not everyone is going to agree with it, and if all the Judges agreed with each other/the public it would be a very dull show and would render the Judges pointless...

[Lee.]

I personally don't think she was out of tune. Not the strongest vocalist, obviously, but she wasn't out of tune. And to answer your question - it's their opinion [one that they're entitled to]. That's the whole point of having Judges, for them to give their opinion. Not everyone is going to agree with it, and if all the Judges agreed with each other/the public it would be a very dull show and would render the Judges pointless...

Fair comments..

I just think that over the past 5 weeks, nearly every one of the finalists have been given some sort of negative criticism, and let's face it, Cher has had a few very dubious performances, but the judges just keep telling her she's fantastic?!

I mean, even Louis who obviously loves getting his nails stuck in to the other judges acts seems to think the sun shines out of her arse!

[Jack_]

Fair comments..

I just think that over the past 5 weeks, nearly every one of the finalists have been given some sort of negative criticism, and let's face it, Cher has had a few very dubious performances, but the judges just keep telling her she's fantastic?!

I mean, even Louis who obviously loves getting his nails stuck in to the other judges acts seems to think the sun shines out of her arse!

It's not all about vocal talent though, it's about stage presence, the 'look', personality etc etc. Cher has pretty much all of those, just doesn't have the strongest vocal. She's a 'performer'. Far more comercially viable than most of the other acts - and that's essentially what they're looking for. I know she hasn't got the strongest voice out of all of the acts, but I really don't think it is as bad as some people are making out...

[Niamh.]

she was out of tune Jack

[patsylimerick]

It seems to be more about the perceived credibility or relevance of the show; even the past winners who are successful are decidedly 'uncool'. The judges seem to believe that they've found, in Cher, a 'quirky' performer. She makes me want to dig my fillings out with hot needles, but she's just a child and her deeply off putting attitude is being stirred up by the drivel from the judges, and cole in particular. Apparently, she does appeal to younger fans in particular; those who are too young to realise just how contrived and copy-cat her performances are. I'd include Cher herself, in that, by the way. I think she thinks she's beyond original. The judges haven't the first clue about anything other than the cheddar cheese end of the pop spectrum - not one of them. Cowell, I feel, can credit the loss of any remaining shred of personal credibility and musical nous to Cher and Katie.

[Jack_]

she was out of tune Jack

Not from what I heard she wasn't, and the Judges don't seem to think so either. Like I said, not the strongest vocally, but not awful...

[Lee.]

It's not all about vocal talent though, it's about stage presence, the 'look', personality etc etc. Cher has pretty much all of those, just doesn't have the strongest vocal. She's a 'performer'. Far more comercially viable than most of the other acts - and that's essentially what they're looking for. I know she hasn't got the strongest voice out of all of the acts, but I really don't think it is as bad as some people are making out...

I'm the first one to agree with you that the vocals aren't everything when it comes to finding a new star.. Image and stage presence ARE very important too. I think the likes of Katie, although not a belter of a singer, has a great image and IMO is a very good performer.. whereas Treyc has an incredibly strong voice but to me hasn't got a lot of stage presence at all.

However, I STILL think that although Cher has had a few stronger perfomances, the judges aren't being as honest with her as they usually are :)

[Niamh.]

Not from what I heard she wasn't, and the Judges don't seem to think so either. Like I said, not the strongest vocally, but not awful...

she sounded out of tune to me and my brother and husband who were all watching. The judges wouldn't dare say she was out of tune, they love her so much

[Lee.]

It seems to be more about the perceived credibility or relevance of the show; even the past winners who are successful are decidedly 'uncool'. The judges seem to believe that they've found, in Cher, a 'quirky' performer. She makes me want to dig my fillings out with hot needles, but she's just a child and her deeply off putting attitude is being stirred up by the drivel from the judges, and cole in particular. Apparently, she does appeal to younger fans in particular; those who are too young to realise just how contrived and copy-cat her performances are. I'd include Cher herself, in that, by the way. I think she thinks she's beyond original. The judges haven't the first clue about anything other than the cheddar cheese end of the pop spectrum - not one of them. Cowell, I feel, can credit the loss of any remaining shred of personal credibility and musical nous to Cher and Katie.

Yes, this doesn't help her either. I find her highly unlikeable.

[Jack_]

I'm the first one to agree with you that the vocals aren't everything when it comes to finding a new star.. Image and stage presence ARE very important too. I think the likes of Katie, although not a belter of a singer, has a great image and IMO is a very good performer.. whereas Treyc has an incredibly strong voice but to me hasn't got a lot of stage presence at all.

However, I STILL think that although Cher has had a few stronger perfomances, the judges aren't being as honest with her as they usually are :)

Fair enough, at least we agree on something [I especially agree with the Katie bit].

IMO though, her performance last week and her performance this week have been her two strongest performances.

she sounded out of tune to me and my brother and husband who were all watching. The judges wouldn't dare say she was out of tune, they love her so much

I wonder why? Erm...maybe because that's their opinion? :conf:

I don't buy into this either. Simon did criticise her, not regarding her vocal, but that the performance wasn't as good as last week. If he 'loved her' that much he wouldn't criticise her at all...

[Niamh.]

Fair enough, at least we agree on something [I especially agree with the Katie bit].

IMO though, her performance last week and her performance this week have been her two strongest performances.



I wonder why? Erm...maybe because that's their opinion? :conf:

I don't buy into this either. Simon did criticise her, not regarding her vocal, but that the performance wasn't as good as last week. If he 'loved her' that much he wouldn't criticise her at all...

I never realised being out of tune was a matter of opinion:conf:

[Novo]

Niamhxo i am sure you say everyone is out of tune apart from Matt.... who next. Rebecca maybe?

[Jack_]

I never realised being out of tune was a matter of opinion:conf:

Well it has to be, or else everyone would agree, surely? I don't think she was out of tune [but again, not the strongest vocally], neither did some other people, and neither did the Judges. So it's got to be a matter of opinion, no?

[Lee.]

Fair enough, at least we agree on something [I especially agree with the Katie bit].

IMO though, her performance last week and her performance this week have been her two strongest performances.

A braying donkey would have sounded good with the amount of backing Cher had last week; something that the XF received a lot of criticism for. This week they obviously stripped back a lot of the production, and we heardmore of what Cher's voice is like.. unfortunately, it's not very good.. :(

[joeysteele]

She wasn't totally in tune all the time, but I think the issue is that there has been an unsaid and unwritten guideline to the Judges that because of the controversy over Cher being in at all, that they say little if anything negative about her.

That can be the only logical explanation because some weeks she has not just been bad she has been chronically bad.

[Niamh.]

Niamhxo i am sure you say everyone is out of tune apart from Matt.... who next. Rebecca maybe?

Rebecca is incredible, so no:hugesmile:

Oh and I think it'll be a bye bye to Katie tonight, she absolutely crucified that song:nono:

[patsylimerick]

Rebecca is incredible, so no:hugesmile:

Oh and I think it'll be a bye bye to Katie tonight, she absolutely crucified that song:nono:

I've a mate with a 40 a day habit who does a far better smoky Gwen/Gaga/Madonna after five or six vodkas in a pub corner than Katie does to acclaim on the biggest talent show in the UK every Saturday night. The whole Cher thing is equal parts irritating/awww; Katie's just 100% grating, a below average singer who should stick to the acting.

[Novo]

Rebecca is incredible, so no:hugesmile:

Oh and I think it'll be a bye bye to Katie tonight, she absolutely crucified that song:nono:

She will be massive no matter what happens

[Novo]

Funny how most the people who hate Cher hate Katie has well...

[Niamh.]

I've a mate with a 40 a day habit who does a far better smoky Gwen/Gaga/Madonna after five or six vodkas in a pub corner than Katie does to acclaim on the biggest talent show in the UK every Saturday night. The whole Cher thing is equal parts irritating/awww; Katie's just 100% grating, a below average singer who should stick to the acting.

something is seriously wrong if she doesn't get the boot tonight.

She will be massive no matter what happens

lmao at you not even trying to defend that brutal performance:joker:

[Niamh.]

Funny how most the people who hate Cher hate Katie has well...

why is that funny? Both aren't very good, so I would say logical rather than funny

[Jack_]

Funny how most the people who hate Cher hate Katie has well...

I guess they just don't like performers, people with stage presence and personality :shrug:

[Lee.]

Funny how most the people who hate Cher hate Katie has well...

I don't! :nono:
I think Cher sucks, but love Katie!

[Novo]

why is that funny? Both aren't very good, so I would say logical rather than funny

And yet how **** would the show be if both of them went.. it would be like watching paint dry.. ****e dull performances every week from Matt, Rebecca and Mary... It's all been done before for the past 5/6 years..

[fruit_cake]

I prefer Katie or Cher over Mary

[fruit_cake]

and Wagner obviously

[Novo]

Imagine

Matt, Rebecca Mary and Aiden/TreyC in the final 4

Everyone would be falling asleep.. the ratings would be down to just over 900,000 and they would be the die hard fans of the acts.

[Niamh.]

And yet how **** would the show be if both of them went.. it would be like watching paint dry.. ****e dull performances every week from Matt, Rebecca and Mary... It's all been done before for the past 5/6 years..

eehhh yeah ok:conf2: Matt and Rebecca stole the show last night

[fruit_cake]

Matt, Aiden and Rebecca in the final sounds pretty good to me!!! would be the best ever final :dance:

[Niamh.]

Matt, Aiden and Rebecca in the final sounds pretty good to me!!! would be the best ever final :dance:

that would be my ideal 3 too:thumbs:

[Novo]

eehhh yeah ok:conf2: Matt and Rebecca stole the show last night

Yeah well the show isn't won in one night luckily

[Niamh.]

Yeah well the show isn't won in one night luckily

indeed, still loads more to come thankfully, not from Katie obviously:joker:

[Novo]

I'd rather One Direction won then Matt, Aiden, or Rebecca.. at least they would have a lot more success

[Novo]

indeed, still loads more to come thankfully, not from Katie obviously:joker:

You are forgetting what week it is, don't be so sure yet

http://i34.tinypic.com/331zyu1.jpg

[Niamh.]

I'd rather One Direction won then Matt, Aiden, or Rebecca.. at least they would have a lot more success

they will probably be in the final atleast, I actually don't mind them

[Niamh.]

You are forgetting what week it is, don't be so sure yet

http://i34.tinypic.com/331zyu1.jpg

what do you mean?

[Novo]

what do you mean?

Week 5

:hugesmile:

[patsylimerick]

And yet how **** would the show be if both of them went.. it would be like watching paint dry.. ****e dull performances every week from Matt, Rebecca and Mary... It's all been done before for the past 5/6 years..

Oh, I don't know.....I usually put the kids to bed when those two are on, myself. If you lost Katie and Cher, you could still get Friedman to stage a big production as a kind of interval act....don't think it would be any the poorer without either of the two most overestimated acts in the history of ex-factor. Personally, am fascinated to see what Matt, Rebecca, Aiden, Treyc and Paige come up with over the coming weeks. Am getting a bit meh about Mary....but she could always pull another show stopper out of the bag. And we always have Wagner for the over the top guilty pleasure type thing; he doesn't irritate me nearly as much as Katie and Cher.

[Niamh.]

Week 5

:hugesmile:

what is the significance of week 5? shock eviction?

[Novo]

what is the significance of week 5? shock eviction?

Yeah

[Niamh.]

Yeah

ooohhhhhhhhhhh Cher:dance:

[Lee.]

I'd rather One Direction won then Matt, Aiden, or Rebecca.. at least they would have a lot more success

I don't think One Direction are crap,but I feel they try a bit too hard,if that makes sense? I kind of feel that they are always trying to outdance/sing each other.

Liam should have been in the boys category!

NOTE; mods/admin, could we have a "nods" smiley please?

[Novo]

ooohhhhhhhhhhh Cher:dance:

Don't be silly

Tesco Mary is going home

[Niamh.]

Don't be silly

Tesco Mary is going home

nah, she has to much support

[fruit_cake]

I don't think One Direction are crap,but I feel they try a bit too hard,if that makes sense? I kind of feel that they are always trying to outdance/sing each other.

Liam should have been in the boys category!

NOTE; mods/admin, could we have a "nods" smiley please?

Liam's really good I agree

[fruit_cake]

nah, she has to much support

I'm not so sure she won't be in the bottom two tonight.. I guess we'll find out

[Novo]

nah, she has to much support

She didn't wear a poppy last night, the viewers will pick up on this and turn against her.. Meanwhile Katie will get loads of votes for wearing one

[Niamh.]

I'm not so sure she won't be in the bottom two tonight.. I guess we'll find out

I thin k it will be Katie and Treyc/wagner

[Niamh.]

She didn't wear a poppy last night, the viewers will pick up on this and turn against her.. Meanwhile Katie will get loads of votes for wearing one

she's Irish, why would she wear a poppy:conf:

[fruit_cake]

yeah the poppy mafia are gonna be after her!!!!

[Novo]

All the old people will be voting Katie

" Oh look she has a Poppy on what a great respectful young girl!! Arthur vote 12 times! "

" Alright Dot pass me the phone "

That is what will be happening all over the UK

[Lee.]

Liam's really good I agree

Yeah, and although I thought Paige was good last night, I think Liam deserved to be in Danii's final 4 over him.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

She brings in most of the headlines...oh I don't bloody know but it's annoying. She's too arrogant for my taste. Her speaking voice is annoying too. I don't see her lasting past one single after this is done. There are better looking girls out there that can actually sing and rap. Now that companies know people are craving for this kind of act maybe they will make an effort to sign a similar act worth our dosh and Cher will disappear into obscurity. :shrug:

[joeysteele]

Liam is the strongest by far of One Direction, Zain is the weakest, he always seems to be looking for guidance as to what to do next, I also think it a mistake that Liam wasn't put through to the Boys category because he alone in One Direction is the organiser and improving one of the group.

As to Cher, I don't think she will be in danger this week,I would like her to be but I think Katie has the problem again and if Katie is in the last 2, it should be recalled the times she has been there in only 5 weeks.

[Z]

I don't get it either. She deserved praise last week; Simon went too far with it. She deserved criticism in weeks 2, 3 and 5 - but the worst she got was week 5: Simon saying it wasn't as good as last week. They're definitely refraining from criticising her properly and I don't understand why - generally speaking if the judges criticise a favourite, their fans go mental and vote for them even more to make sure they aren't in the bottom two. So clearly the votes aren't the issue, I think they just want to make her seem unstoppable.

Mary, in my opinion, unravelled a bit last week, and then last night completely lost all the credibility she'd built up for herself. She's no longer the 50 year old woman with the impressive voice who can sing anything - she's been shown as a one trick pony who has flopped about miserably both times she's been tasked with a song outside of her comfort zone. Maybe that was an intentional move from the judges to gear Cher up to the invincible position? They're doing a lot of undermining of other, better acts in favour of Cher!

[Vicky.]

I wonder why? Erm...maybe because that's their opinion? :conf:

I don't buy into this either. Simon did criticise her, not regarding her vocal, but that the performance wasn't as good as last week. If he 'loved her' that much he wouldn't criticise her at all...

Its not really someones opinion if someone is out of tune or not though, they either are or they arent :conf:

It is someones choice, whether they will admit that someone was out of tune though ;)




Back to the OP...I have no idea, but it is stupid. Then again, Mary last night got no negative comments and she was atrocious, so maybe it is something to do with the more fragile acts getting special treatment. There has to be something as cher has been praised to high heavens every week, when the only week she deserved so much praise was last week. But even then, throwing the 'best performance of the series' label at her was a total joke :laugh2:

IF they are bigging her up because they are afraid of upsetting her fragile self...its the worst thing they can do, because she believes all her own hype, and if she doesnt win, it will be disastrous after being practically told that she will since the start.

To be honest, I dont even see why she is on the live shows. After failing at bootcamp and judges houses, even REFUSING to sing again after ****ing up at the judges houses, just walking off...why on earth was she still put through? Surely that showed what she would be like...

[Vicky.]

Matt, Aiden and Rebecca in the final sounds pretty good to me!!! would be the best ever final :dance:

Perfect final :D

[Kazanne]

she was out of tune Jack

It was an exact copy of the original too,which I think Simon picked up on,so it wasn't 'good' imo.

[nanaimo]

All the old people will be voting Katie

" Oh look she has a Poppy on what a great respectful young girl!! Arthur vote 12 times! "

" Alright Dot pass me the phone "

That is what will be happening all over the UK

ever hear the term clutching at straws novo
what has ******ing poppies to do with rock n roll ...haha or the x factor for that matter :dance:

[Jack_]

Its not really someones opinion if someone is out of tune or not though, they either are or they arent :conf:

It is someones choice, whether they will admit that someone was out of tune though ;)

Not really, because you could easily spin that around and say 'it's someones choice whether or not they will admit that someone was in tune, even though they dislike the act'.

[Vicky.]

Not really, because you could easily spin that around and say 'it's someones choice whether or not they will admit that someone was in tune, even though they dislike the act'.

Yes you could. Never said it didnt go the other way too :)

However it is ridiculous to say that it is someones opinion if an act was in tune. As it is not opinion at all.

[Jack_]

Yes you could. Never said it didnt go the other way too :)

However it is ridiculous to say that it is someones opinion if an act was in tune. As it is not opinion at all.

Well it's got to be, or else everyone would agree she was either in tune or out of tune, surely?

Just like you can't tell whether a Cher fan is just saying they were in tune because they like her, they can't tell whether you're just saying she wasn't in tune because you dislike her. How do you decipher who is right and who is wrong? It's not possible, because both sides will disagree with each other - thus it's got to be an opinion, no?

[patsylimerick]

I think the difficulty is that, even though all of Cher's fans may realise she was completely out of tune last night; they won't acknowledge it. Understandable, I suppose. But she was still out of tune.

[Z]

Well it's got to be, or else everyone would agree she was either in tune or out of tune, surely?

Just like you can't tell whether a Cher fan is just saying they were in tune because they like her, they can't tell whether you're just saying she wasn't in tune because you dislike her. How do you decipher who is right and who is wrong? It's not possible, because both sides will disagree with each other - thus it's got to be an opinion, no?

Stating if someone is in tune or not is an observation; bias playing into it is another issue entirely - but I think the vast majority of users who post in the X Factor forum can be sensible enough to pass judgment on whether a performance was in tune or not without being biased.

[Jack_]

Stating if someone is in tune or not is an observation; bias playing into it is another issue entirely - but I think the vast majority of users who post in the X Factor forum can be sensible enough to pass judgment on whether a performance was in tune or not without being biased.

I agree. And I'm not biased, I genuinely believe she was in tune [she went off-key for a small part, can't remember where, but for the large majority of the song she was in tune]. I'm definitely not biased, as in some weeks I end up rating my favourites lower than other acts in the 'Ratings' thread. But I genuinely believe she was in tune. So either other people are just saying she was out of tune because they dislike her, or it's an opinion?

[Vicky.]

Well it's got to be, or else everyone would agree she was either in tune or out of tune, surely?

Just like you can't tell whether a Cher fan is just saying they were in tune because they like her, they can't tell whether you're just saying she wasn't in tune because you dislike her. How do you decipher who is right and who is wrong? It's not possible, because both sides will disagree with each other - thus it's got to be an opinion, no?

That is called bias. Based on who you like.

Being in tune is not an opinion, its a fact.


That being said, she was not out of tune for the entire performance, only in parts.

[Vicky.]

See the thing is, she could sing a whole song, horrifically out of tune...and the fans would still say she wasnt out of tune.

She could sing a whole song perfect, and some people who dont like her would say she was out of tune.

But the fact of her actually being in tune or not, is not opinion...

[Livia]

she's Irish, why would she wear a poppy:conf:

Out of respect for all the Irish men who fought with the Allies in WW2, even though they didn't have to?

[Z]

I agree. And I'm not biased, I genuinely believe she was in tune [she went off-key for a small part, can't remember where, but for the large majority of the song she was in tune]. I'm definitely not biased, as in some weeks I end up rating my favourites lower than other acts in the 'Ratings' thread. But I genuinely believe she was in tune. So either other people are just saying she was out of tune because they dislike her, or it's an opinion?

Well there you go, you just admitted she was off key - therefore rendering what you're saying into an opinion by defending her performance. She was out of tune, just like Mary and Wagner.

[Jack_]

That is called bias. Based on who you like.

Being in tune is not an opinion, its a fact.

But my point is - how are we supposed to decipher whether someone is right that she was out of tune or that someone else is right that they were in tune? How is it possible to decipher who is right and who is wrong? Because both sides will believe they are right - so surely it's got to be an opinion? If it's not and it's just bias, then one of the sides could easily say 'you're the one that's biased', but the other could then say the same, thus providing no resolution. So it's got to be an opinion if everyone can't agree that she was in/out of tune and whether people are biased or not? What else could it be?

That being said, she was not out of tune for the entire performance, only in parts.

Well that I agree with, though only small parts.

[Vicky.]

Well there you go, you just admitted she was off key - therefore rendering what you're saying into an opinion by defending her performance. She was out of tune, just like Mary and Wagner.

Mary was horrifically off key. I love that song too :(

[Niamh.]

Out of respect for all the Irish men who fought with the Allies in WW2, even though they didn't have to?

eh no. They're not my army and so I would not be wearing a poppy.

[Jack_]

Well there you go, you just admitted she was off key - therefore rendering what you're saying into an opinion by defending her performance. She was out of tune, just like Mary and Wagner.

I said she was off-key for one small part. It seems to me most people in this thread [bar Vicky, who has just stated differently] are stating that she was out of tune for the entire song. That's something I don't agree with.

[Vicky.]

But my point is - how are we supposed to decipher whether someone is right that she was out of tune or that someone else is right that they were in tune? How is it possible to decipher who is right and who is wrong? Because both sides will believe they are right - so surely it's got to be an opinion? If it's not and it's just bias, then one of the sides could easily say 'you're the one that's biased', but the other could then say the same, thus providing no resolution. So it's got to be an opinion if everyone can't agree that she was in/out of tune and whether people are biased or not? What else could it be?

It is not opinion though. This is what I am saying.

Bias comes into it with people defending/slating her for being in/out of tune...but the fact of the matter is, each performance either IS or IS NOT out of tune. How people chose to take that is entirely up to them, but it is not someones opinion. At all.

This has kinda already been proved by you denying she was out of tune, and then later deciding that she was out of tune in parts :)



Anyways this is going round in circles, and i get the feeling that you are kinda missing the point deliberately (sorry if you are not) so this is my last post on this matter.

[Z]

I said she was off-key for one small part. It seems to me most people in this thread [bar Vicky, who has just stated differently] are stating that she was out of tune for the entire song. That's something I don't agree with.

And that's the matter of opinion - I also don't think she was out of tune for the whole song, but the unbiased observation is that she was off key during the song.

[Niamh.]

I said she was off-key for one small part. It seems to me most people in this thread [bar Vicky, who has just stated differently] are stating that she was out of tune for the entire song. That's something I don't agree with.

I never said the whole song either. And eventhough I don't like her I wouldn't say it unless I thought. I readily admitted that she was very good last week

[Jack_]

It is not opinion though. This is what I am saying.

But then what is? I see what you're saying, but if some people think she was in tune and others thing she was out of tune, how do you decide who is right and who is wrong? I understand that whether she was in tune/out of tune is a fact - but when people have differing views, how do people decide which is right and which is wrong?

This has kinda already been proved by you denying she was out of tune, and then later deciding that she was out of tune in parts :)

I didn't 'later decide', I always believed that - just like you did and chose not to say that she wasn't out of tune for the entire performance until later in the thread.

Anyways this is going round in circles, and i get the feeling that you are kinda missing the point deliberately (sorry if you are not) so this is my last post on this matter.

It's definitely not deliberate. I understand what you're saying [that it's a fact, not an opinion, so I apologise if I didn't make that clear enough, but what I'm just trying to say is what do you call people's differing ideas to the 'fact'? Because some people believe she was in tune, others believe she was out of tune.

And that's the matter of opinion - I also don't think she was out of tune for the whole song, but the unbiased observation is that she was off key during the song.

Fair enough.

[Jack_]

I never said the whole song either. And eventhough I don't like her I wouldn't say it unless I thought. I readily admitted that she was very good last week

Fair enough then. So I guess we can all agree that she was out of tune in parts, but for the majority she was in tune?

I'll settle for that, because that's what I believe :)

[Livia]

eh no. They're not my army and so I would not be wearing a poppy.

That's your choice. No one would force you... but you asked why should Cher wear a poppy if she's Irish and I offered a suggestion why.

Luckily for the Allies, a hundred thousand Irishmen thought it was a cause worth fighting for. Unluckily for them they were shunned by many of their countrymen, and despite stories of the Holocaust filtering back, de Valera actually paid his respects to the German representative in Dublin when he heard Hitler was dead. Nice to know that not all Irish people felt that way back then.

Edit: Mary not Cher... obviously. I'm having brain-fade today.

[patsylimerick]

That's your choice. No one would force you... but you asked why should Cher wear a poppy if she's Irish and I offered a suggestion why.

Luckily for the Allies, a hundred thousand Irishmen thought it was a cause worth fighting for. Unluckily for them they were shunned by many of their countrymen, and despite stories of the Holocaust filtering back, de Valera actually paid his respects to the German representative in Dublin when he heard Hitler was dead. Nice to know that not all Irish people felt that way back then.

Firstly, I'm Irish and my grandfather and his two brothers fought at the Somme. One of them's buried there. Right. That's out of the way. To be fair here, the wearing of poppies is a difficult and a complex issue in Ireland and I think it's far too complicated and grey to qualify as fodder for a discussion forum like this. No disrespect to anyone. Just find this discussion, on here, very uncomfortable.

[Niamh.]

That's your choice. No one would force you... but you asked why should Cher wear a poppy if she's Irish and I offered a suggestion why.

Luckily for the Allies, a hundred thousand Irishmen thought it was a cause worth fighting for. Unluckily for them they were shunned by many of their countrymen, and despite stories of the Holocaust filtering back, de Valera actually paid his respects to the German representative in Dublin when he heard Hitler was dead. Nice to know that not all Irish people felt that way back then.

Obviously Mary felt the same too:hugesmile:

[Pyramid*]

I gave a huge sigh when I saw it was back to the bow legged ghetto rapper style mix again... FFS, we get the message: and it's boring the tits off me now.

There were quite a few part that she was woefully out of tune, breathless at parts when she was jumping/dancing about, and one part that she sounded like a cat on heat.

Why Danni and Louis hold back - beggars belief. Surprised at Danni - as her judgments and opinions are usually spot on - honest.

Cowell did have an attempt at saying she wasnt as good, and it was the 'same old style again', but then when Miss Gurnface opened her gob to respond - he then gave it all the "Still think you're special" pish.

WTF???:shocked:

[Lee.]

I gave a huge sigh when I saw it was back to the bow legged ghetto rapper style mix again... FFS, we get the message: and it's boring the tits off me now.

There were quite a few part that she was woefully out of tune, breathless at parts when she was jumping/dancing about, and one part that she sounded like a cat on heat.

Why Danni and Louis hold back - beggars belief. Surprised at Danni - as her judgments and opinions are usually spot on - honest.

Cowell did have an attempt at saying she wasnt as good, and it was the 'same old style again', but then when Miss Gurnface opened her gob to respond - he then gave it all the "Still think you're special" pish.

WTF???:shocked:


Hi Pyramid :)

Yeah.. the bow legged thing gets on my tits too :laugh:

[GiRTh]

I gave a huge sigh when I saw it was back to the bow legged ghetto rapper style mix again... FFS, we get the message: and it's boring the tits off me now.

There were quite a few part that she was woefully out of tune, breathless at parts when she was jumping/dancing about, and one part that she sounded like a cat on heat.

Why Danni and Louis hold back - beggars belief. Surprised at Danni - as her judgments and opinions are usually spot on - honest.

Cowell did have an attempt at saying she wasnt as good, and it was the 'same old style again', but then when Miss Gurnface opened her gob to respond - he then gave it all the "Still think you're special" pish.

WTF???:shocked:I agree.

What I didn't like was that she only really sang the choirus and was out of tune in parts. The 'rapping' is getting old now. She needs to deliver new rhymes for anyone to say she can rap. At the moment she isnt rapping.

Simon was spot on when he called it a copycat. She's not an artist, she's an impressionist.

[Angus]

I guess they just don't like performers, people with stage presence and personality :shrug:

No I think it's more that we prefer to watch performers who have some vestige of talent to justify the "stage presence and personality". A decent singing voice helps. When I'm sat at home listening to my cds, stage presence and personality won't do it for me:rolleyes:

[bbfan1991]

Cher through:D, I fear for some peoples blood temperatures every week!:shocked::joker:.

[Pato]

Mary was out of tune and none of the judges mentioned it

[Jords]

They are up her arse so much that it makes Cher less likable!

[bbfan1991]

They are up her arse so much that it makes Cher less likable!

How's that her fault though:conf:, Cher is not psychic and can't control or predict what the judges are going to say about her:joker:. The judges say what they want, most of the time now most people seem to ignore their comments anyway and make their own mind up!.

[Jords]

^
Its not her fault, but its made her much more aragont.

[Locke.]

The judges know that Cher is the most amazing person to ever appear on the show, that's all there is to it really.

[Jords]

^
Thought that was Olly? :p

[Locke.]

No Olly was my second favourite last year. Jamie was my favourite, he is joint first with Cher.

[patsylimerick]

They are up her arse so much that it makes Cher less likable!

The services of the Chilean rescue team will be required shortly :dance:

[Jords]

Really!? Locke you have gone up in my estimations, Jamie was great.

[Locke.]

Really!? Locke you have gone up in my estimations, Jamie was great.

I should have already been sky high :nono:

But yeah I was one of his only fans on here, used to be arguing with Setanta every week about it. Liked Olly and Danyl aswell, didn't really like any of the others.

[bbfan1991]

^
Its not her fault, but its made her much more aragont.

Each to their own, I disagree and we don't really know any of the acts apart from what we see on the show, however backstage might be way different than what they are portrayed:).

[Locke.]

I watched all her video diarys last night she comes across really well, I agree that she comes across a bit arrogant when they talk to her on the actual show... But on the video diarys she is more like she was on her audition.

[Jack_]

No I think it's more that we prefer to watch performers who have some vestige of talent to justify the "stage presence and personality". A decent singing voice helps. When I'm sat at home listening to my cds, stage presence and personality won't do it for me:rolleyes:

Then to be honest, I think you're watching the wrong show. The show is looking for an artist to attempt to tap into the commerical, mainstream market. The majority of mainstream artists have little talent [especially vocal talent] - but it doesn't matter as with vocal enhancing technology there's not a problem. Like it or loathe it, that's the way it works. And so a 'decent singing voice' isn't the most important element. And I think you're forgetting that touring and gigs is a massive thing at the moment, so yes, stage presence and personality are very, very important factors. Unless you're someone with outstanding vocal talent, you're not going to shift ticket sales. You wouldn't pay for tickets to Gaga and expect to see her standing in a black dress for two hours, would you?