Mary is the best over 25/28 ever

[Tom]

Yeah she just is, even better than Ruth. Had a crap week last week but apart from that has given the best performances week in week out

Wagner a close second obviously

[Mystic Mock]

ruth had 1 bad week imo where as i think mary has had 2 bad weeks out of 5.

[joeysteele]

I really liked Ruth Lorenzo, I think she was very underrrated,for me she would be better than Mary but Mary does have a great voice especially on dramatic numbers though.

[tate]

i like Mary's voice but I do believe she would have been better suited to the britains got talent audience and grand prize rather than a recording artist for the pop markets

Ruth was my fave over ever, loved her voice, her style, her attitude and her fight, thought she was brill

[Zippy]

No way!!

Brenda had a more diverse voice and a much better personality. Andy, Ruth....Im sure I could think of several more if I tried but Ive made the point.

First two weeks she did well with the standards. But past 3 weeks she's gone from bad to worse. Shouldve been bottom two sunday but brought out the sob story and tears.

[Lewis.]

Nuh-Uh... Ruth Lorenzo...

[Jordan.]

*hopes this is a joke*

[ElProximo]

Mary is great.
She did have a 'repeat' (though it was a perfect or nearly better redux) and yes she had a bad night.

Mary's 'bad night' was still as good or better than anyone else besides Matt and Rebecca. So yes.. she is quite great.

[Shaun]

Oh please.

Ruth > Brenda > Maria > Dionne > Robert > Rowetta > Danyl > Mary > rest.

[Z]

Gonna have to disagree with you there Tom... Mary's audition was amazing; her performances on the first two live shows were excellent, and then with the third live show she fully exposed herself as a one trick pony with no desire to change things up - something she was forced to do anyway, and has failed at for two weeks running. She's gone from looking like one of the firm favourites to elimination fodder in the next couple of weeks in my eyes; I think if she was in the bottom two, Simon Cowell would send her home/force a deadlock situation for definite.

[nanaimo]

I think it all depends on this weeks performance, if she redeems herself i think she will be ok but she needs to up the game a bit for herself, not my favourite contestant but she has a great voice and hope she isn't a one trick pony and surprises us all.

[ElProximo]

I think it all depends on this weeks performance, if she redeems herself i think she will be ok but she needs to up the game a bit for herself, not my favourite contestant but she has a great voice and hope she isn't a one trick pony and surprises us all.

Agree.
She has been amazing but the 'repeat' and the follow-up weaker night has left her in a sort of nowhere-land and candidate for elimination in a few weeks,
but,
yeah, she does have a great voice and could turn it all around with just one or more excellent nights.

[Zippy]

Rowetta

I loved Rowetta! She brought the drama and the voice.

[King Gizzard]

I just think she shouts most of the time. Jane Mcdonald strike 2, not as wacky and weird as SuBo.

[Locke.]

Jamie, Olly, Chico & Danyl > the rest

[cub]

Mary is just an old fashioned working men's club singer. She can't sing anything but old Tom Jones/Shirley Bassey songs. That's no good.

[fruit_cake]

I prefer Danyl and Ruth

[ElProximo]

Mary is just an old fashioned working men's club singer. She can't sing anything but old Tom Jones/Shirley Bassey songs. That's no good.

Not only is it good... it is what makes her better.

MARY FTW!!

[Z]

She'd definitely be in the top 10; but nowhere near the best..

[cub]

I think she'll be the biggest over 25 there's ever been.

[Legend killer]

I love Mary but has to be Ruth Sex On Legs Lorenzo

[bbfan1991]

Disagree.. I thought Brenda Edwards, Danyl Johnson, Ruth Lorenzo, Andy Abrahams and Maria Lawson were much better:D.

[Beastie]

I hope Mary and Wagner go next.

[Vicky.]

Danyl and Ruth>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Mary

[MissKittyFantastico]

Danyl and Ruth were way better.

She's had two poor weeks now.

[bbfan1991]

Danyl and Ruth>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Mary

Danyl and Ruth were way better.

She's had two poor weeks now.

It's because till 7 is not working:(.

[Tom]

Those saying she is a one trick pony are talking complete BS and lapping up what Simon + co say. Almost all of them have sung the same style week in week out and Mary's Could It Be Magic was one of the better performances on that particular live show

People are forgetting the bottom line here, she can actually sing. Vocally shes one of the best people ever on the show, but for other people who are apparently better its their whole manner and performance that makes them good, not their voice. It was Ruth's fight that made her quite popular, as a vocalist she wasn't that good.

[Adamw92]

No chance, Ruth is the best over 25 to ever be on the show!

[Z]

Those saying she is a one trick pony are talking complete BS and lapping up what Simon + co say. Almost all of them have sung the same style week in week out and Mary's Could It Be Magic was one of the better performances on that particular live show

People are forgetting the bottom line here, she can actually sing. Vocally shes one of the best people ever on the show, but for other people who are apparently better its their whole manner and performance that makes them good, not their voice. It was Ruth's fight that made her quite popular, as a vocalist she wasn't that good.

Erm, no...

I'm not lapping anything up - Mary herself showed no interest in changing up her style, and her performances have been stale for the past three weeks. She's not "one of the best people ever on the show" - her voice isn't particularly strong as shown by the difficulties she had in performing There You'll Be. Obviously everyone has their own opinion, and my opinion is that Mary was the worst in week 4 (with Could It Be Magic). She is my definition of a one trick pony, and I say this as someone who loved her first audition and genuinely likes her as a person.

As for your comments about Ruth - I thought she was fantastic because of her voice, and I'm pretty sure everyone else in this thread is giving names based on their voice too... Anyway, it comes down to opinion of course, but I thought your post was a bit OTT and untrue.

[ElProximo]

Erm, no...

I'm not lapping anything up - Mary herself showed no interest in changing up her style, and her performances have been stale for the past three weeks.

What I see here is your sort of 'cultural bias' or 'ageism' in the sense you can easily discern between a Lady-Gaga song, a Madonna song or whatever modern pop songs are.
When you hear Mary.. to you that is all 'that style'. You don't appreciate any difference between an Aretha or a Tom Jones or a ... to 'your mind' those are 'all those style'.
The same thing.
In the same way you see Thai tourists, Japanese businessmen and 'to your eyes' they are 'all those people'.
They are 'All the same to me'.

Now... Mary did not 'gain' anything doing a repeat song. Not a 'loss' so much as not gaining anything I agree with that.


She's not "one of the best people ever on the show" - her voice isn't particularly strong as shown by the difficulties she had in performing There You'll Be.


Yes she is one of the best people ever on the show. She has captured the imagination of a nation and everyone loves her.

Yes, her voice is VERY STRONG. By far the strongest this season if you want power and substance (actually Treyc was good there too),
and,
I think what happened here is that she has been SO GOOD that when you saw her struggle (and no more than about 4 others) you saw it as some 'relatively' dramatic failure.
Even at her worst Mary was still better than half the contestants.


Obviously everyone has their own opinion, and my opinion is that Mary was the worst in week 4 (with Could It Be Magic).


Sure but your opinion is wrong :p

[Jevans]

What I see here is your sort of 'cultural bias' or 'ageism' in the sense you can easily discern between a Lady-Gaga song, a Madonna song or whatever modern pop songs are.
When you hear Mary.. to you that is all 'that style'. You don't appreciate any difference between an Aretha or a Tom Jones or a ... to 'your mind' those are 'all those style'.
The same thing.
In the same way you see Thai tourists, Japanese businessmen and 'to your eyes' they are 'all those people'.
They are 'All the same to me'.

Now... Mary did not 'gain' anything doing a repeat song. Not a 'loss' so much as not gaining anything I agree with that.


Yes she is one of the best people ever on the show. She has captured the imagination of a nation and everyone loves her.

Yes, her voice is VERY STRONG. By far the strongest this season if you want power and substance (actually Treyc was good there too),
and,
I think what happened here is that she has been SO GOOD that when you saw her struggle (and no more than about 4 others) you saw it as some 'relatively' dramatic failure.
Even at her worst Mary was still better than half the contestants.




Sure but your opinion is wrong :p

Agree with all of that! Mary has the strongest voice in the compettition. FACT. Not exactly the best but close but she is still ****ing immense.

[cub]

No chance, Ruth is the best over 25 to ever be on the show!

100% categorically correct.

[patsylimerick]

Erm, no...

I'm not lapping anything up - Mary herself showed no interest in changing up her style, and her performances have been stale for the past three weeks. She's not "one of the best people ever on the show" - her voice isn't particularly strong as shown by the difficulties she had in performing There You'll Be. Obviously everyone has their own opinion, and my opinion is that Mary was the worst in week 4 (with Could It Be Magic). She is my definition of a one trick pony, and I say this as someone who loved her first audition and genuinely likes her as a person.

As for your comments about Ruth - I thought she was fantastic because of her voice, and I'm pretty sure everyone else in this thread is giving names based on their voice too... Anyway, it comes down to opinion of course, but I thought your post was a bit OTT and untrue.

What does 'change up her style' even mean?:conf: Can you imagine anyone telling Barbra Streisand or Bette Midler to 'change up your style' :joker:
Or would it be what Cher's been doing.......a karaoke version of Jay-z and a children's choir one week was 'changed up' to a karaoke version of Jay-z and Alicia Keyes the next.

She's a hairs up on the back of your neck power ballad singer belter. That just is what she is. She's had a few bad weeks and she's not my favourite act, but the suggestion that she should change what's she's doing is ludicrous to my ears.

[fruit_cake]

I like Mary but she makes me fall asleep.. she is pretty dull :sleep::sleep:

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

rowetta, maria, brenda, dionne, kerry, beverly, nikki, rachael, ruth,

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

failiest thread ever

[MeMyselfAndI]

ummm mary is one of the worst lmao

Olly, Danyl, Ruth, Brenda, Maria, Andy, Beverly and Nikki are the best

Mary is probably in the worst 5

[Stacey.]

Nope, that title belongs to Danyl Johnson.

[KG.]

No over 25/28 will ever come close to Brenda or Ruth.

[Z]

What I see here is your sort of 'cultural bias' or 'ageism' in the sense you can easily discern between a Lady-Gaga song, a Madonna song or whatever modern pop songs are.
When you hear Mary.. to you that is all 'that style'. You don't appreciate any difference between an Aretha or a Tom Jones or a ... to 'your mind' those are 'all those style'.
The same thing.
In the same way you see Thai tourists, Japanese businessmen and 'to your eyes' they are 'all those people'.
They are 'All the same to me'.

Now... Mary did not 'gain' anything doing a repeat song. Not a 'loss' so much as not gaining anything I agree with that.


Yes she is one of the best people ever on the show. She has captured the imagination of a nation and everyone loves her.

Yes, her voice is VERY STRONG. By far the strongest this season if you want power and substance (actually Treyc was good there too),
and,
I think what happened here is that she has been SO GOOD that when you saw her struggle (and no more than about 4 others) you saw it as some 'relatively' dramatic failure.
Even at her worst Mary was still better than half the contestants.




Sure but your opinion is wrong :p

I'm offended that you concluded that from my post. My point is that Mary stood on the stage giving three performances that all merge into one in my head. That's not commenting on how good/bad she was; it was just a simple observation that for three weeks in a row, her performances were delivered in the same way. In stark contrast; other over 25s have given a variety of different performances that stood out over the years - whereas with Mary, she, in my mind, has undermined herself by giving three near enough identical performances, then two pretty dire ones afterwards. Had she done week 1, week 4, week 2, week 3, week 5 in that order; then weeks 1, 2 and 3 would have been stand out performances that blew the competition out of the water; but she hasn't, so that's where my point of view comes from. The judges' comments are to a similar effect, so I don't think I'm alone in thinking that.

As for your comments about me not appreciating the difference between a Tom Jones and an Aretha Franklin performance - that's extremely condescending, presumptuous and offensive - as are your comments about Oriental people.

She's hardly captured the imagination of the nation; and not everyone loves her. Personally, I like her, I think she's a very down to earth likable woman, but you only need to look around this section of the website to find that a few people find her grating. Mary's is one of the strongest this year, but that doesn't say much when her competition includes Katie, Cher, One Direction, Wagner... Again, your assumptions about who I am as a person and "my reasons" for whatever you think it is I think are completely unfounded and aren't true: She has been, on the whole, a very good singer; but her performances have been too similar for too long, and she's been exposed as a one trick pony. That isn't a bad thing, because she is really good at what she does - but in relation to the original post about whether she's the best over 25 - to me means she's not the best, there have been better. We've had so many great singers on the X Factor; to distinguish them they need to have something else to stand out, for me, standing on a stage, stationary, wearing a floaty black dress and being unwilling to try something different is a weakness.

[Shaun]

The way you see Thai tourists, Japanese businessmen and 'to your eyes' they are 'all those people'.
They are 'All the same to me'.


Aww. Glad to see you haven't lost your ability to be an out-of-touch douchebag :love:

[fruit_cake]

SuBo is a better singer, weirder and was there before Mary

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

^ :joker:

[Z]

What does 'change up her style' even mean?:conf: Can you imagine anyone telling Barbra Streisand or Bette Midler to 'change up your style' :joker:
Or would it be what Cher's been doing.......a karaoke version of Jay-z and a children's choir one week was 'changed up' to a karaoke version of Jay-z and Alicia Keyes the next.

She's a hairs up on the back of your neck power ballad singer belter. That just is what she is. She's had a few bad weeks and she's not my favourite act, but the suggestion that she should change what's she's doing is ludicrous to my ears.

To me, it means doing something different. She at least attempted to do it in week 4 by actually moving around the stage, unfortunately it didn't impress me but I appreciate the effort. She needs to be a bit less predictable; the voting public are fickle and anyone perceived to be boring will not gain support as the weeks go by.

[Tom]

Erm, no...

I'm not lapping anything up - Mary herself showed no interest in changing up her style, and her performances have been stale for the past three weeks. She's not "one of the best people ever on the show" - her voice isn't particularly strong as shown by the difficulties she had in performing There You'll Be. Obviously everyone has their own opinion, and my opinion is that Mary was the worst in week 4 (with Could It Be Magic). She is my definition of a one trick pony, and I say this as someone who loved her first audition and genuinely likes her as a person.

As for your comments about Ruth - I thought she was fantastic because of her voice, and I'm pretty sure everyone else in this thread is giving names based on their voice too... Anyway, it comes down to opinion of course, but I thought your post was a bit OTT and untrue.

So what if she doesn't want to change her style? Rebecca doesn't change hers, Matt doesn't change his, Paije doesn't change his and so on. Why have one rule for most of the contestants and another for Mary? Because the judges don't pull the others up on it.

I loved Ruth, I think she is my fave contestant ever but vocally Mary is streets ahead of her. Ruth shouted a lot and she was awful from weeks 2-5 whilst in week 1 she was average at best. Shes also quite guilty of being a one trick pony but people overlook that too.

Mary's week 3 performance of I Who Have Nothing was absolutely stunning and one of the best performances X Factor has ever seen, yet the judges called her for being a one trick pony when the performance was brilliant. If she got a standing ovation everyone would be raving about it. Go on youtube and watch it back with no pre-concieved ideas, imagine its the first time you've ever seen her and you'll have a very different opinion.

[Z]

So what if she doesn't want to change her style? Rebecca doesn't change hers, Matt doesn't change his, Paije doesn't change his and so on. Why have one rule for most of the contestants and another for Mary?

I loved Ruth, I think she is my fave contestant ever but vocally Mary is streets ahead of her. Ruth shouted a lot and she was awful from weeks 2-5 whilst in week 1 she was average at best. Shes also quite guilty of being a one trick pony but people overlook that too.

There isn't one rule for most of the contestants and another for Mary - just the thread is discussing Mary, that's why it's being pointed out. Comparing Mary and Ruth from weeks 1-5 (as we've obviously not heard Mary's remaining performances yet) then yes, Mary has been much better, but Ruth's Summertime still stands out as one of the best performances from that series IMO, and that was in week 3; so she wasn't "awful" that whole time - I do agree that Mary's been more consistent in that timeframe though. Ruth generally did ballads, but she did dabble in singing rock songs too.

[Z]

So what if she doesn't want to change her style? Rebecca doesn't change hers, Matt doesn't change his, Paije doesn't change his and so on. Why have one rule for most of the contestants and another for Mary? Because the judges don't pull the others up on it.

I loved Ruth, I think she is my fave contestant ever but vocally Mary is streets ahead of her. Ruth shouted a lot and she was awful from weeks 2-5 whilst in week 1 she was average at best. Shes also quite guilty of being a one trick pony but people overlook that too.

Mary's week 3 performance of I Who Have Nothing was absolutely stunning and one of the best performances X Factor has ever seen, yet the judges called her for being a one trick pony when the performance was brilliant. If she got a standing ovation everyone would be raving about it. Go on youtube and watch it back with no pre-concieved ideas, imagine its the first time you've ever seen her and you'll have a very different opinion.

Just replied to you and then saw you'd added another bit to your post :tongue:. I also think Mary's I Who Have Nothing was fantastic - the reason I'm not mad on it is because she'd done it before in her audition, I want to see them singing something different every week - similarly I wasn't that impressed with Rebecca singing Make You Feel My Love despite it being sung fantastically, for example. My opinion stays the same. Great vocals marred by the repetitive nature of the performance.

[Shaun]

Only in Weeks 1 and 2, I would say Mary has been great. 'Could it Be Magic' was weak as ****, last week's song even worse (There You'll Be).

[i missed week 3]

[Tom]

Only in Weeks 1 and 2, I would say Mary has been great. 'Could it Be Magic' was weak as ****, last week's song even worse (There You'll Be).

[i missed week 3]

youtube it, youll love it. and Zee, forgot about Summertime but Ruth came into her own after week 6 and her second sing off performance. If she went in week 2 or 5 noone would remember her

[Z]

youtube it, youll love it. and Zee, forgot about Summertime but Ruth came into her own after week 6 and her second sing off performance. If she went in week 2 or 5 noone would remember her

Definitely; she took a long time to become memorable but I think once she did, it established her as one of the best over 25s the X Factor has seen because she did it so spectacularly. Her final performance of Always goes down as my favourite ever X Factor performance.

[ElProximo]

As for your comments about me not appreciating the difference between a Tom Jones and an Aretha Franklin performance - that's extremely condescending, presumptuous and offensive - as are your comments about Oriental people.



It's your comments about 'oriental people' (a racist term now) but that shows me you are that type who puts people into categories. For you the Thai, Japanese are all: "Those orientals".

You do that same thing with Mary but its called 'Ageism'. "Those Old style'" songs.
Like the 'Orientals' all 'look the same to you' it is the same way with Marys 'old kind'.
The songs all 'sound the same to you'.

I'm not necessarily saying you are a racist (or always a racist) or always an Ageist,
but,
you have that 'mentality' and you go around pre-judging (prejudice) from your own viewpoint as if it were the superior and informed one. 'Ethnocentric' but for music.

Sorry, truth hurts sometimes.

[Z]

It's your comments about 'oriental people' (a racist term now) but that shows me you are that type who puts people into categories. For you the Thai, Japanese are all: "Those orientals".

You do that same thing with Mary but its called 'Ageism'. "Those Old style'" songs.
Like the 'Orientals' all 'look the same to you' it is the same way with Marys 'old kind'.
The songs all 'sound the same to you'.

I'm not necessarily saying you are a racist (or always a racist) or always an Ageist,
but,
you have that 'mentality' and you go around pre-judging (prejudice) from your own viewpoint as if it were the superior and informed one. 'Ethnocentric' but for music.

Sorry, truth hurts sometimes.

I've no idea how you've come to that conclusion, I've never been accused of being racist or ageist before, nor do I feel I've done anything to justify that label. The songs do not sound the same to me; the performances are visually the same to me - that has always been my point. I really don't understand where you're coming from, you're wrong.

[Shaun]

WAT.
no WAT.

[ElProximo]

...I've never been accused of being racist or ageist before, nor do I feel I've done anything to justify that label.

It is the mentality. When you say 'Those Orientals' as if they were all just some same style and look the same to you.

With Mary you have that mentality "Oh.. those are all the same kind of song and she looks the same each time".

We all have this issue 'naturally' (so to speak) and for example how you see all the Japanese, Thai as 'Orientals' is something called 'race recognition' and is so common it is used in courtrooms and police witnessing procedure to gauge accuracy.
I may have the same 'race grouping' problem as you except I travel often and although British Caucasian - I can distinguish Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Thai and so on.
VERY different peoples.

Anyways,
with music I am faced with the similar problem as your racism and for example is the boy band.
Because that music is 'foreign' to my experience it 'appears' to me they sing and dance the same exact thing every week.
Same song.
Same dances.
It all looks and sounds the same and the same as 100 other boy bands. Couldn't tell you a difference.

The difference is that I am aware of this and I take responsibility and consider the 'other view'.
You don't.
You just assume your 'vision' is the correct one.

[fruit_cake]

It is the mentality. When you say 'Those Orientals' as if they were all just some same style and look the same to you.

With Mary you have that mentality "Oh.. those are all the same kind of song and she looks the same each time".

We all have this issue 'naturally' (so to speak) and for example how you see all the Japanese, Thai as 'Orientals' is something called 'race recognition' and is so common it is used in courtrooms and police witnessing procedure to gauge accuracy.
I may have the same 'race grouping' problem as you except I travel often and although British Caucasian - I can distinguish Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Thai and so on.
VERY different peoples.

Anyways,
with music I am faced with the similar problem as your racism and for example is the boy band.
Because that music is 'foreign' to my experience it 'appears' to me they sing and dance the same exact thing every week.
Same song.
Same dances.
It all looks and sounds the same and the same as 100 other boy bands. Couldn't tell you a difference.

The difference is that I am aware of this and I take responsibility and consider the 'other view'.
You don't.
You just assume your 'vision' is the correct one.

both Harry and Liam are really good singers :dance:

[Benjamin]

No way! Ruth Lorenzo has been the best in the 'overs'. She was amazing! :love:

[Z]

It is the mentality. When you say 'Those Orientals' as if they were all just some same style and look the same to you.

With Mary you have that mentality "Oh.. those are all the same kind of song and she looks the same each time".

We all have this issue 'naturally' (so to speak) and for example how you see all the Japanese, Thai as 'Orientals' is something called 'race recognition' and is so common it is used in courtrooms and police witnessing procedure to gauge accuracy.
I may have the same 'race grouping' problem as you except I travel often and although British Caucasian - I can distinguish Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, Thai and so on.
VERY different peoples.

Anyways,
with music I am faced with the similar problem as your racism and for example is the boy band.
Because that music is 'foreign' to my experience it 'appears' to me they sing and dance the same exact thing every week.
Same song.
Same dances.
It all looks and sounds the same and the same as 100 other boy bands. Couldn't tell you a difference.

The difference is that I am aware of this and I take responsibility and consider the 'other view'.
You don't.
You just assume your 'vision' is the correct one.

But it was you who generalised in the first place; not me! I can tell the difference between Japanese, Chinese, Korean and Thai people because I have friends from those various backgrounds; they do not "all look the same to me." For whatever reason, you've decided that I'm racist and ageist without any apparent evidence and I'm not sure why you're continuing to throw this at me? You are extremely patronising if you think that I'm truly that ignorant; you don't know me at all. I am not an assuming person; I am very considerate when it comes to other people - and I cannot believe I'm trying to prove to someone that I'm not racist because he/she thinks I am, based entirely on me thinking that Mary Byrne isn't the best over 25/28 contestant that has been on the X Factor?! This is madness. I am not racist. I am not ageist. I've given my reasons for why I think Mary is not the best, the main reason being that she is a predictable performer. That is not a comment on her singing ability, nor is it a comment on anything other than why I think she is a predictable performer.

[Tom]

I don't really think it matters if they're predictable. She is still capable of performances which make your hairs stand on end (admittedly she hasn't done one for a while) but they're all predictable performers. We all know what they're going to do and whether they'll be any good or not when we see the song list

They all have their genres. Mary sings old ballads and theres nothing wrong with that, thats her comfort zone just like Rebecca's comfort zone is new soulful ballads but noone criticises her for that.

[ElProximo]

I am not racist. I am not ageist. I've given my reasons for why I think Mary is not the best, the main reason being that she is a predictable performer. That is not a comment on her singing ability, nor is it a comment on anything other than why I think she is a predictable performer.

It is something of a 'non-complaint'.
Divers predictably stand at the top of the diving board to jump off.
Race Car drivers typically sit in their seats while steering to win.
President Obama predictably stands at a podium or in one spot to speak.

So yeah, I guess it is predictable Mary will stand before the microphone. Okay. I guess you are right about that.
She had the unique arm waving thing but I see she has some camera angles last weekend.
Strange sort of 'non-criticism criticism' you have here.

Again, not saying you are always a racist or fully a racist. I was just pointing out the similar 'ethnocentric' mentality you have with Mary and her age group.
But sure.. I bet you will tell me 'some of my best friends are in their 50s'. that is what ageists always say hehe

[Z]

It is something of a 'non-complaint'.
Divers predictably stand at the top of the diving board to jump off.
Race Car drivers typically sit in their seats while steering to win.
President Obama predictably stands at a podium or in one spot to speak.

So yeah, I guess it is predictable Mary will stand before the microphone. Okay. I guess you are right about that.
She had the unique arm waving thing but I see she has some camera angles last weekend.
Strange sort of 'non-criticism criticism' you have here.

Again, not saying you are always a racist or fully a racist. I was just pointing out the similar 'ethnocentric' mentality you have with Mary and her age group.
But sure.. I bet you will tell me 'some of my best friends are in their 50s'. that is what ageists always say hehe

I'm nineteen years old.

Well I'm glad you're not saying I am a racist; I'm still a bit perplexed as to where that comparison came from, but I can assure you I'm not racist - if anything I spend too much time obsessing over being politically correct :laugh:.

[ElProximo]

I'm nineteen years old.

Well I'm glad you're not saying I am a racist; I'm still a bit perplexed as to where that comparison came from, but I can assure you I'm not racist - if anything I spend too much time obsessing over being politically correct :laugh:.

I'm not sure if you are a racist or not but referring to people as 'those orientals' and obsessing about being PC are definitely 'warning flags' someone is a racist. But hey.. you have to live with yourself.

[Z]

Whatever dude, I know that I'm not - that's all that matters.