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Kazanne
30-11-2010, 08:33 PM
Do you find it strange the amount of people who say they don't believe in God,yet relish in a festival that celebrates the birth of Jesus,year after year?

Tom
30-11-2010, 08:35 PM
Its more a secular cultural thing if anything that just happens to have religious roots. I do think its a bit hypocritical but celebrate it anyway.

Callum
30-11-2010, 08:35 PM
Yes I do, I love Christmas. I prefer it to Birthday's, Easter, Halloween and all the others annual celebrations.

Stacey.
30-11-2010, 08:39 PM
I celebrate christmas but never think anything about religion or Jesus etc.

Mystic Mock
30-11-2010, 08:41 PM
yes i do,and even more so when i get reborn as jesus christ on here.:hugesmile:

Jordan.
30-11-2010, 08:41 PM
I celebrate christmas but never think anything about religion or Jesus etc.

pmsl, this. :')

MTVN
30-11-2010, 08:42 PM
Yeah I celebrate it, I'm not particularly religious although I try and acknowledge it's origins

GypsyGoth
30-11-2010, 08:43 PM
I celebrate christmas but never think anything about religion or Jesus etc.

Same.

Niall
30-11-2010, 08:57 PM
I do celebrate Christmas for the Jesus part aswell. But most of the time my selfish brain thinks only of presents :p

Mystic Mock
30-11-2010, 08:59 PM
I do celebrate Christmas for the Jesus part aswell. But most of the time my selfish brain thinks only of presents :p

same here.

Jamie.....
30-11-2010, 09:00 PM
Yeah I celebrate it.
But it doesn't have anything to do with god really.
Jesus was born in the spring/summer, and Christmas was originally a Pagan celebration but Christians kinda took it over.

Vicky.
30-11-2010, 09:01 PM
I celebrate christmas but never think anything about religion or Jesus etc.

This :)

Kazanne
30-11-2010, 09:08 PM
Yeah I celebrate it.
But it doesn't have anything to do with god really.
Jesus was born in the spring/summer, and Christmas was originally a Pagan celebration but Christians kinda took it over.

Yes,i know that,but it IS looked on as the birth of Christ,hence the name,as Christians dedicated that day to celebrate his birth,so isn't it a bit hypocritical of people to selfishly celebrate something they don't believe in just to get 'presents' etc?

Stu
30-11-2010, 09:28 PM
This argument comes up year after year and I really don't see the complication. There is no hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is contradicting yourself. That would be me not believing in God and celebrating the birth of Jesus. That's not what I'm doing. I'm celebrating the most awesome time of the year and being a shamelessly materialistic prat. Reveling in the music, the food, the booze, the fact that everyone is that little bit happier. I couldn't care less what the days roots are. Me and the rest of the modernized world have hijacked those roots and turned it into a new kind of monster.

I mean do you people who believe in Jesus read his gospel all the time as your supposed to? I'm guessing not. I'm not the one guilty of hyposcrisy. Do you really understand the religion you claim to follow or is it just a convorsation piece?

Kazanne
30-11-2010, 09:58 PM
This argument comes up year after year and I really don't see the complication. There is no hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is contradicting yourself. That would be me not believing in God and celebrating the birth of Jesus. That's not what I'm doing. I'm celebrating the most awesome time of the year and being a shamelessly materialistic prat. Reveling in the music, the food, the booze, the fact that everyone is that little bit happier. I couldn't care less what the days roots are. Me and the rest of the modernized world have hijacked those roots and turned it into a new kind of monster.

I mean do you people who believe in Jesus read his gospel all the time as your supposed to? I'm guessing not. I'm not the one guilty of hyposcrisy. Do you really understand the religion you claim to follow or is it just a convorsation piece?

No need to get ancy,I only asked the question as i find it interesting ,so are you saying you believe in God?as you have said hypocrisy is celebrating something you dont believe in,that is all i asked,I can understand all the people celebrating and being materialistic if they are celebrating his birth,I just find it strange those that don't believe in him.it's no big deal and when did I say I followed a religion?I asked a question that is all,stop presuming you know about people.

_Seth
30-11-2010, 10:05 PM
I celebrate christmas but never think anything about religion or Jesus etc.

This.

Even though last year when I was a Christian I was like "Why do non-Christians celebrate Christmas?" :laugh:

InOne
01-12-2010, 12:45 AM
In a word. No.

Benjamin
01-12-2010, 12:53 AM
For me, Christmas has no religous meaning at all. My view on Christmas is family based; a traditional family holiday, where the family (including extended) all get together as a whole and spend some quality time with each other and enjoy it. To me religion (Christianity) has none of it's original context left in this day and age anyway.

Am I hypocrital? maybe

Do I care? No.

Stu
01-12-2010, 12:53 AM
No need to get ancy,I only asked the question as i find it interesting ,so are you saying you believe in God?as you have said hypocrisy is celebrating something you dont believe in,that is all i asked,I can understand all the people celebrating and being materialistic if they are celebrating his birth,I just find it strange those that don't believe in him.it's no big deal and when did I say I followed a religion?I asked a question that is all,stop presuming you know about people.
What on earth are you talking about? I'm not getting antsy. And I never assumed you were religious. In fact ... none of that post was directed at you. I was just commenting on religion in general.

My post seems to have gone way over your head. Yes ... it is hypocritical to celebrate something you don't believe in. That's why I don't celebrate the birth of Jesus.

I just celebrate the rest of Christmas. It is possible to have an atheist Christmas you know. Again I really, really don't see the complication.

I buy a Christmas tree, I share gifts, I get drunk, listen to Christmas music, and pass out at 4 in the morning.

I don't believe in god.

No problem.

Stu
01-12-2010, 12:59 AM
0bSkXa46yTo

MTVN
01-12-2010, 01:01 AM
Christmas has come to mean so much more beside the religious aspect of it; it now symbolises family, turkey, Christmas trees etc. just as much as it does Baby Jesus and the Nativity Play.

So, no I dont think it's hypocritical, I think we've got to a stage where it is acceptable for the non-religious qualities of it to be just as freely celebrated as the Christian element

Some may want to go to Church Christmas morning and think about the birth of Jesus, some may not, either is fine in my opinion..

Stu
01-12-2010, 01:04 AM
That exactly.

keithafc
01-12-2010, 02:00 AM
Christmas and religion DON'T mix anyway.

Very few people celebrate Christmas in a religious way anymore and thank F for that because it would be so boring.

Its all about the gifts, the great food, family, a time of people being happy, Christmas TV and so on.

The religion aspect should clear off tbh.

KG.
01-12-2010, 02:10 AM
I celebrate Christmas for the sake of celebrating.

Crimson Dynamo
01-12-2010, 12:05 PM
Do you find it strange the amount of people who say they don't believe in God,yet relish in a festival that celebrates the birth of Jesus,year after year?

yeah and all those who celebrate Halloween but dont believe in actual witches and Zombies, oh and Easter and the Easter bunny..

Santa and presents is nowt to do with religion. Religious people may "celebrate" the birth of Christ if they like but most folks will be celebrating santa, family and presents which is all non-religious.

Niamh.
01-12-2010, 12:58 PM
Like a few others have said, I do celebrate Christmas but I see it as a time to spend with family, put up lights and decorate the house, get time off work and eat and drink and be merry. I'm not religious at all and I don't pretend to be around Christmas either so I don't think I'm a hypocrite.

on a side note, Love the avatar kazanne, Christmas Gerard mmmmmmmmmm

Kazanne
01-12-2010, 01:27 PM
What on earth are you talking about? I'm not getting antsy. And I never assumed you were religious. In fact ... none of that post was directed at you. I was just commenting on religion in general.

My post seems to have gone way over your head. Yes ... it is hypocritical to celebrate something you don't believe in. That's why I don't celebrate the birth of Jesus.

I just celebrate the rest of Christmas. It is possible to have an atheist Christmas you know. Again I really, really don't see the complication.

I buy a Christmas tree, I share gifts, I get drunk, listen to Christmas music, and pass out at 4 in the morning.

I don't believe in god.

No problem.

Quote from your post=Do you really understand the religion you claim to follow or is it just a convorsation piece?
__________________
That seems like a question aimed at me,so I assume your post Was aimed at me,why is it people cannot ask a question on here without people getting so defensive,blimey,I was just curious,no wonder people leave here in droves.

Beastie
01-12-2010, 01:31 PM
I like Christmas more for the reason of a celebration and getting together with the family. Being festive and merry and getting a few days off work!

However I will try and go to the Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve.

Kazanne
01-12-2010, 01:33 PM
Like a few others have said, I do celebrate Christmas but I see it as a time to spend with family, put up lights and decorate the house, get time off work and eat and drink and be merry. I'm not religious at all and I don't pretend to be around Christmas either so I don't think I'm a hypocrite.

on a side note, Love the avatar kazanne, Christmas Gerard mmmmmmmmmm

It wasn't really a serious question,I was just curious,I am shocked some people seem to think I have insulted them,lol,not at all,I was just wondering how many celebrated it for it's religious roots,kind of the same as people having their children christened when they don't believe,I know loads of them,and hey,get out of my Christmas Gerard he is filling MY stocking this year,LOL.:xyxwave:

Niamh.
01-12-2010, 01:36 PM
It wasn't really a serious question,I was just curious,I am shocked some people seem to think I have insulted them,lol,not at all,I was just wondering how many celebrated it for it's religious roots,and hey,get out of my Christmas Gerard he is filling MY stocking this year,LOL.:xyxwave:

we'll see about!!!:nono: Oh! Have you seen the ad on telly with him in??? Yummmmmmmm

arista
01-12-2010, 01:51 PM
Do you find it strange the amount of people who say they don't believe in God,yet relish in a festival that celebrates the birth of Jesus,year after year?



I do not Celebrate Xmas.


It is for little Children only.




I have stock up with shopping
due to mums panic buying.




Life In The City.

Kazanne
01-12-2010, 02:18 PM
we'll see about!!!:nono: Oh! Have you seen the ad on telly with him in??? Yummmmmmmm

No I haven't,what is it for?,lol:xyxwave:

joeysteele
01-12-2010, 02:21 PM
Do you find it strange the amount of people who say they don't believe in God,yet relish in a festival that celebrates the birth of Jesus,year after year?

I find it very strange,considering the meaning of the word Christmas is Christ Mass, A holy descriptive made for the reverence of Jesus.

Theological bit over, Whether people are religious or not is immaterial since there are many festivals over all cultures all around the Christmas period, as well as the fact it was also a pagan time for some celebration too,Yes,I accept it was hijacked by the Churches for the Christian Christmas

If you say you celebrate Christmas then you are indicating a connection to its Christian roots.I find it so odd when I hear people say in Stores,as to religious scenes on Chrismas cards 'what has that to do to with Christmas'.Unbelieveable.

I personally hold a Christian belief and celebrate Christmas in both ways, one in the religious aspect and then with my friends and family. I actually find it sad that the message of Christmas seems lost now,its far too commercialised.

joeysteele
01-12-2010, 02:25 PM
Having said that, one overall thing the Christmas season does for the majority of people is bring them together more to be happy and be with one another so perhaps that should be the real meaning of Christmas,no heavy hang ups as to religion or anything else, just to come together and be happy,really enloy the season and look out for each other, friend, family or whoever.

Niamh.
01-12-2010, 02:26 PM
No I haven't,what is it for?,lol:xyxwave:

here :

dikfEwOUrMU

Beso
01-12-2010, 02:29 PM
pile of sh!t

Kazanne
01-12-2010, 02:32 PM
here :

dikfEwOUrMU

OMG,THUD:colour::banana::cheer::thumbs2::lovedup:

YOWZA

Niamh.
01-12-2010, 02:35 PM
OMG,THUD:colour::banana::cheer::thumbs2::lovedup:

YOWZA

:laugh: thought you might like it!!

arista
01-12-2010, 02:37 PM
http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/u558/dead_santa.jpg

Kazanne
01-12-2010, 02:39 PM
I find it very strange,considering the meaning of the word Christmas is Christ Mass, A holy descriptive made for the reverence of Jesus.

Theological bit over, Whether people are religious or not is immaterial since there are many festivals over all cultures all around the Christmas period, as well as the fact it was also a pagan time for some celebration too,Yes,I accept it was hijacked by the Churches for the Christian Christmas

If you say you celebrate Christmas then you are indicating a connection to its Christian roots.I find it so odd when I hear people say in Stores,as to religious scenes on Chrismas cards 'what has that to do to with Christmas'.Unbelieveable.

I personally hold a Christian belief and celebrate Christmas in both ways, one in the religious aspect and then with my friends and family. I actually find it sad that the message of Christmas seems lost now,its far too commercialised.

I'm pretty much like you Joey,I celebrate it,I love it,but we also remember the religious connection which can also be great fun,and it is great it seems to bring everyone together,but it can also be a very lonely sad time for some people,and how many people do you know have their kids christened when they do not believe in him?it's the same kind of thing,I just find it a bit 'odd' perhaps is a better word than hypocritical,lol,I did only ask out of interest .

Kazanne
01-12-2010, 02:40 PM
http://www.psychologytoday.com/files/u558/dead_santa.jpg

:joker:That's just cruel:joker:

Niamh.
01-12-2010, 02:48 PM
I'm pretty much like you Joey,I celebrate it,I love it,but we also remember the religious connection which can also be great fun,and it is great it seems to bring everyone together,but it can also be a very lonely sad time for some people,and how many people do you know have their kids christened when they do not believe in him?it's the same kind of thing,I just find it a bit 'odd' perhaps is a better word than hypocritical,lol,I did only ask out of interest .

well, my kids are christened and my daughter has made her communion and the reason for it is that her school is a catholic school, I could still opt to not have her do religion or make her communion but she would be the only one in her class not doing it, I don't want to make her feel like an outsider which she would, also her dads family are pretty religious so I doubt they'd be pleased (not that I care but you know) I just wish that religion and schools were a separate thing because I personally feel like I have no choice but to have my kids taught religion.

lately, I have been thinking about it alot and I really regret not sending my kids to a multi denominational school as everytime I have to go to mass (funerals, weddings etc.) I sit there and think, is this really happening, all these grown people chanting like cult members (I don't wish to insult any religious person btw these are just my own personal opinions) but if I did send them to a multi denominational school, it would be awkward as there isn't one in my area so it would be a bit of a trek plus they wouldn't have friends in our area.

Kazanne
01-12-2010, 03:00 PM
well, my kids are christened and my daughter has made her communion and the reason for it is that her school is a catholic school, I could still opt to not have her do religion or make her communion but she would be the only one in her class not doing it, I don't want to make her feel like an outsider which she would, also her dads family are pretty religious so I doubt they'd be pleased (not that I care but you know) I just wish that religion and schools were a separate thing because I personally feel like I have no choice but to have my kids taught religion.

lately, I have been thinking about it alot and I really regret not sending my kids to a multi denominational school as everytime I have to go to mass (funerals, weddings etc.) I sit there and think, is this really happening, all these grown people chanting like cult members (I don't wish to insult any religious person btw these are just my own personal opinions) but if I did send them to a multi denominational school, it would be awkward as there isn't one in my area so it would be a bit of a trek plus they wouldn't have friends in our area.

Don't you think sometimes we do things to please the older members of the family?My nan would not let me in her house until I had been 'churched'(I didn't even know what she meant)I found out that after you give birth you go to church to be blessed(this must be so alien to some members)so I had to do this before I could go back in her house after I had my first child,lol,wonder if any other members have heard about being 'churched'.I agree with you about the schools btw.

Niamh.
01-12-2010, 03:10 PM
Don't you think sometimes we do things to please the older members of the family?My nan would not let me in her house until I had been 'churched'(I didn't even know what she meant)I found out that after you give birth you go to church to be blessed(this must be so alien to some members)so I had to do this before I could go back in her house after I had my first child,lol,wonder if any other members have heard about being 'churched'.I agree with you about the schools btw.

lol, I haven't heard of that "churching" at all and yeah I definitely think pleasing older family members has alot to do with it as well. Coming from a country that is primarily Catholic it is also more difficult for people to bring their kids up as anything other than catholic without it being an issue for the kids (ie sending them to a catholic school but having them opting out of religion class plus communion, confirmation etc.) or sending them to a multi denominational school but then there aren't very many of them and it ends up being very awkward to do that

arista
01-12-2010, 03:12 PM
:joker:That's just cruel:joker:



Its Bliss to me.

Kazanne
01-12-2010, 03:15 PM
lol, I haven't heard of that "churching" at all and yeah I definitely think pleasing older family members has alot to do with it as well. Coming from a country that is primarily Catholic it is also more difficult for people to bring their kids up as anything other than catholic without it being an issue for the kids (ie sending them to a catholic school but having them opting out of religion class plus communion, confirmation etc.) or sending them to a multi denominational school but then there aren't very many of them and it ends up being very awkward to do that

I can understand that, some of our family are Catholic,some C of E and some don't believe at all.so you can imagine what our get togethers are like,:joker:

Niamh.
01-12-2010, 03:20 PM
I can understand that, some of our family are Catholic,some C of E and some don't believe at all.so you can imagine what our get togethers are like,:joker:

Religions do interest me though eventhough I'm not a religious person at all. I think what they should do is have religion class in schools but study all types of religion so the kids can then choose to follow one or not. That's the problem with religion you see, most people don't choose to follow them, they're born into them depending on what part of the world they are etc. I don't see how you can be a true follower of a particular faith when there are so many of them without having explored all your options and decided on one that makes most sense to you

arista
01-12-2010, 03:49 PM
There Is No God

Crimson Dynamo
01-12-2010, 04:33 PM
There Is No God

Santa is real you miserable bas tard

Mr XcX
01-12-2010, 04:34 PM
yes

Stu
01-12-2010, 05:18 PM
Quote from your post=Do you really understand the religion you claim to follow or is it just a convorsation piece?
__________________
That seems like a question aimed at me,so I assume your post Was aimed at me,why is it people cannot ask a question on here without people getting so defensive,blimey,I was just curious,no wonder people leave here in droves.
I didn't call your name. I didn't even quote your post. 'You' = any Christian reading the post who thinks its silly for non believers to celebrate.

Stop being so melodramatic. Nobody attacked you. I'm just answering the questions you are asking. I'm not getting defensive. You are. As a result of having to explain all of this to you in black and white I probably look like a pretentious prat through no fault of my own.

Simple.

Beastie
01-12-2010, 05:20 PM
I didn't call your name. I didn't even quote your post. 'You' = any Christian reading the post who thinks its silly for non believers to celebrate.

Stop being so melodramatic. Nobody attacked you. I'm just answering the questions you are asking. I'm not getting defensive. You are. As a result of having to explain all of this to you in black and white I probably look like a pretentious prat through no fault of my own.

Simple.

Stu V Kazanne :love:

*gets the popcorn*

Stu
01-12-2010, 05:21 PM
*sigh* There's nothing actually happening. I'm not looking for a 'fight'. I'm giving my views on Christmas then being told I'm a bit of a dick for doing so because I have to explain things to people who don't get it.

Shaun
01-12-2010, 06:43 PM
It's no more unusual than celebrating Halloween - it may shock you to hear that I don't believe the dead are resurrected for a festival.

edit: quite literally, if you're really Christian :laugh2:

Kazanne
01-12-2010, 06:55 PM
*sigh* There's nothing actually happening. I'm not looking for a 'fight'. I'm giving my views on Christmas then being told I'm a bit of a dick for doing so because I have to explain things to people who don't get it.

You've obviously taken my question the totally the wrong way,you don't have to explain anything to me,I was never personally attacking anyone,I was just curious,but seem to have offended you for some reason,so maybe it's best left at that.

Kazanne
01-12-2010, 06:58 PM
It's no more unusual than celebrating Halloween - it may shock you to hear that I don't believe the dead are resurrected for a festival.

edit: quite literally, if you're really Christian :laugh2:

Halloween is totally different,LOL We all know Halloween is not real,but some people feel that the birth of Christ IS,it may shock you to realise there is no comparison.

Patrick
01-12-2010, 07:02 PM
Christmas isn't about God anymore for ****** sake it's 2010, It hasn't been about that bloke God in years.

I feel sorry for people who still got mass tbh especially on Christmas day.

I celebrate it because I ******ing want Presents and I cba being the only one in the entire city not into it when everyone else is shoving it in your face.

Stu
01-12-2010, 07:04 PM
You've obviously taken my question the totally the wrong way
No I have not. You asked did I celebrate Christmas, I said I did. And I explained why.

I really, really, really don't see the complication.

Patrick
01-12-2010, 07:04 PM
Halloween is totally different,LOL We all know Halloween is not real,but some people feel that the birth of Christ IS,it may shock you to believe there is no comparison.

Halloween is a celebration thing for Ghosts and stuff, How the ****** is that not real?

Ghosts ARE Real.

Shaun
01-12-2010, 07:06 PM
Halloween is totally different,LOL We all know Halloween is not real,but some people feel that the birth of Christ IS,it may shock you to believe there is no comparison.

Yes but the point I'm making is that it's all to do with context. The traditional religious meaning behind Christmas is becoming more and more ignored, and in its place substituted with commercial, secular traditions.

1000 years ago it was probably not unusual for pagans to believe in the resurrection of the dead - but attitudes have changed.

[not to say I don't respect the religious aspect of the holiday...it at least makes a good story :hugesmile:]

Kazanne
01-12-2010, 07:19 PM
Christmas isn't about God anymore for ****** sake it's 2010, It hasn't been about that bloke God in years.

I feel sorry for people who still got mass tbh especially on Christmas day.

I celebrate it because I ******ing want Presents and I cba being the only one in the entire city not into it when everyone else is shoving it in your face.

Why dont you keep your foul rants for someone who gives a damn, you cant answer anything without swearing ,well I am not impressed save it for the like minded.

Kazanne
01-12-2010, 07:22 PM
Yes but the point I'm making is that it's all to do with context. The traditional religious meaning behind Christmas is becoming more and more ignored, and in its place substituted with commercial, secular traditions.

1000 years ago it was probably not unusual for pagans to believe in the resurrection of the dead - but attitudes have changed.

[not to say I don't respect the religious aspect of the holiday...it at least makes a good story :hugesmile:]

I understand that and at least you had the grace too answer in a decent way.you should give Patrick some lessons.

Shasown
01-12-2010, 07:31 PM
I find it very strange,considering the meaning of the word Christmas is Christ Mass, A holy descriptive made for the reverence of Jesus.

Theological bit over, Whether people are religious or not is immaterial since there are many festivals over all cultures all around the Christmas period, as well as the fact it was also a pagan time for some celebration too,Yes,I accept it was hijacked by the Churches for the Christian Christmas

If you say you celebrate Christmas then you are indicating a connection to its Christian roots.I find it so odd when I hear people say in Stores,as to religious scenes on Chrismas cards 'what has that to do to with Christmas'.Unbelieveable.

I personally hold a Christian belief and celebrate Christmas in both ways, one in the religious aspect and then with my friends and family. I actually find it sad that the message of Christmas seems lost now,its far too commercialised.

The word christ is from the greek Kristos which in turn is a translation of the Hebrew word Masiah which translates directly to English as Messiah. There were other people in the Jewish people both before and after old JC that would have also been called Christ.

The term christian meaning a follower of Jesus the Nazarean was first used by Syrians in Damascus.

Celebrating a mid winter feasting etc is far older than the christian celebration. The Romans celebrated Bruma later Saturnalia and the feasts of Sol Invictas well before there was a christmas. Pagans in Scandinavia and Northern Germany celebrated Yule at mid winter. Mithraists (a Zoroastrian religion from Persia) had the birth of their main deity as 25 Dec. Long before jesus was a missed period for Mary.

The mid winter date for JC's birth first appears in the 3rd century. But at that time celebrating a birth date was looked upon by early christians as being very pagan.

Thats not to say christians deliberately took the mid winter festival date to lure pagans into conversion as the date of christmas appears to have been set because of a belief the day he died was the same day of the year as he was conceived. Which some old scholar worked out as March 25(the feast of the Annunciation).

Some early christians had April as his birth day, others has Jan 6th, which to keep them sweet was kept as a holy day (the Epiphany) when the church adopted 25th Dec.

joeysteele
01-12-2010, 10:30 PM
The word christ is from the greek Kristos which in turn is a translation of the Hebrew word Masiah which translates directly to English as Messiah. There were other people in the Jewish people both before and after old JC that would have also been called Christ.

The term christian meaning a follower of Jesus the Nazarean was first used by Syrians in Damascus.

Celebrating a mid winter feasting etc is far older than the christian celebration. The Romans celebrated Bruma later Saturnalia and the feasts of Sol Invictas well before there was a christmas. Pagans in Scandinavia and Northern Germany celebrated Yule at mid winter. Mithraists (a Zoroastrian religion from Persia) had the birth of their main deity as 25 Dec. Long before jesus was a missed period for Mary.

The mid winter date for JC's birth first appears in the 3rd century. But at that time celebrating a birth date was looked upon by early christians as being very pagan.

Thats not to say christians deliberately took the mid winter festival date to lure pagans into conversion as the date of christmas appears to have been set because of a belief the day he died was the same day of the year as he was conceived. Which some old scholar worked out as March 25(the feast of the Annunciation).

Some early christians had April as his birth day, others has Jan 6th, which to keep them sweet was kept as a holy day (the Epiphany) when the church adopted 25th Dec.

There are many translations and many different assumptions as to what this word or that word means. Which is why I pointed out that all over in other cultures there were also set festivals around the Christmas period.

I also think you have far more eloquently than myself, (I am not a scholar of Theology),presented several other interpetrations and also aspects of them.

I found your post really interesting, comprehensive and there is little on it that I feel strongly enough to dispute or challenge.

In all reality, I would be more likely to agree with your detailed post as to this event rather than I would with learned Scholars and the Ministry of the Faith I belong to.

Whether you speak from a Christian, other Faith, agnostic or even Atheist perspective,in your post as I read it, I found near all of it I agreed with,I do however make a point of rarely discussing religion or arguing about it.
At the end of the day none of us really have all,few or all the answers anyway.

Princess
01-12-2010, 10:31 PM
It's not really about religion anymore and no one really celebrates it as such.

Livia
01-12-2010, 10:49 PM
Stu V Kazanne :love:

*gets the popcorn*

ahhhhhh... it all makes sense now.

Stu
01-12-2010, 10:51 PM
Don't keep us all in suspense, whatever you do.

[If you don't answer I will assume I'm on your world famous Ignore list].

Livia
01-12-2010, 10:54 PM
Do you find it strange the amount of people who say they don't believe in God,yet relish in a festival that celebrates the birth of Jesus,year after year?

I celebrate Christmas inasmuch as I do the tree, the prezzies, the celebrating. Today is the first day of Hanukkah, and as a Jew I celebrate that as a religious festival, but I still like to do the Christmas thing because it is a time of year when people are kinder to each other. Well, maybe not on here, but generally.

Happy Hanukkah any Jewish FMs, by the way. And any non-Jewish FMs actually.

30stone
02-12-2010, 02:13 PM
I love Christmas best time of the year :)