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Novo
02-02-2011, 03:23 PM
Champion trainer Paul Nicholls has 10 of the 102 entries for the Grand National at Aintree in April.
Nicholls has never won the race and his hopes include recent Cheltenham winner Neptune Collonges and What A Friend, part-owned by Sir Alex Ferguson.
The Midnight Club is among nine entries for Irish trainer Willie Mullins.
Jonjo O'Neill has three contenders - Don't Push It, who won the National for Tony McCoy in 2010, plus Synchronised and Can't Buy Time.
Entries for the Grand National closed on Wednesday, with the weights announced on 15 February. Of the 102 contenders, 34 are trained in Ireland and three in France.
Neptune Collonges and What A Friend are joined by stablemates The Tother One, Tricky Trickster, Taranis, Tatenen, Niche Market, Just Amazing, Gullible Gordon and Meanus Dandy.
McCoy won the National at the 15th attempt last year, and was voted the 2010 BBC Sports Personality.
It seems likely he will choose between Don't Push It and January's Welsh National winner Synchronised.

The Northern Irish jockey is retained by owner JP McManus, whose other entries are the recent purchase Quolibet (50/1), trained in France by Francois Doumen, as well as Arbor Supreme and Quiscover Fontaine, representing Willie Mullins
Ballabriggs, trained by Donald McCain, hardened as ante-post National favourite after winning over hurdles at Ayr on Monday.
The 10-year-old, ridden by Jason Maguire, was scoring his fifth straight victory as he took the novices' hurdle over two miles and four furlongs.
Ballabriggs is rated a 16-1 chance for the Aintree marathon on 9 April.
McCain's father Ginger won the National four times - three with Red Rum in the 1970s, plus Amberleigh House in 2004.
Hoping to win the National for a second time will be David Pipe, whose five hopefuls number the 2008 scorer Comply Or Die, now aged 12.
The Evan Williams-trained State Of Play, Howard Johnson's Tidal Bay and Ferdy Murphy's Big Fella Thanks are other interesting contenders.
The Irish entries include the 2008 Welsh National winner Notre Pere, the Edward O'Grady-trained Tranquil Sea, Noel Glynn's stable star Becauseicouldntsee, the Martin Lynch-trained Oscar Time and Gordon Elliott's Backstage, who unseated his rider in the 2010 race.
But one Irish challenger who will not be making the trip is the 2010 Grand National runner-up Black Apalachi, who has been ruled out for the season.

But Irish trainer Dessie Hughes fears he will never win the big race with Black Apalachi.
Now a 12-year-old, Black Apalachi was going ominously well when unseating Denis O'Regan at Becher's Brook on the second circuit in 2009 before finishing second to Don't Push It last April.
He was being prepared solely with the race in mind again but has sustained a tendon injury.
"Can you imagine it? He jumps around Aintree with not a bother year after year and then he gets a leg," said Hughes.
"I've no idea how it happened, it just appeared. We were lucky we didn't run him the other day.
"He might come back, but he's 12 now. He'll have to stand in his box for a month or two. This probably would have been his year.
"But maybe his year was the year he unseated - you don't get too many chances."
Another horse set to miss the race is David Pipe's The Package, who has suffered a setback.
Hew as creeping into contention before unseating Graham Lee at the 19th fence in the 2010 National.
"Fortunately he is a relatively lightly-raced eight-year-old so there is still plenty of time for him, and I look forward to getting him back on track next term," said Pipe on his official website.

Grand National entries
0P1-006 ALWAYS WAINING (IRE) 10 Peter Bowen
60U0-60 AMBOBO (USA) 11 Martin Brassil IRE
2212-52 APT APPROACH (IRE) 8 Willie Mullins IRE
0U2F-0P ARBOR SUPREME (IRE) 9 Willie Mullins IRE
256-021 ASKTHEMASTER (IRE) 11 Robert Tyner IRE
0BP-500 BACKSTAGE (FR) 9 Gordon Elliott IRE
3111-11 BALLABRIGGS (IRE) 10 Donald McCain
40F-044 BALLYFITZ 11 Nigel Twiston-Davies
0100-03 BALLYTRIM (IRE) 10 Willie Mullins IRE
2212-42 BECAUSEICOULDNTSEE (IRE) 8 Noel Glynn IRE
1F4/22-1 BELON GALE (IRE) 8 Wylie Howard Johnson
2U14-2F BIG FELLA THANKS 9 Ferdy Murphy
0C21-04 BLUESEA CRACKER (IRE) 9 James Motherway IRE
P12-UPP BURREN LEGEND (IRE) 10 Richard Rowe
4-56242 CALGARY BAY (IRE) 8 Henrietta Knight
16F-0P5 CAN'T BUY TIME (IRE) 9 Jonjo O'Neill
635P-6P CANE BRAKE (IRE) 12 Conor O'Dwyer IRE
12/- CARRONHILLS (IRE) 9 Rebecca Curtis
000-305 CHARACTER BUILDING (IRE) 11 John Quinn
30011-0 CHIEF DAN GEORGE (IRE) 11 Jimmy Moffatt
2/000-06 COMPLY OR DIE (IRE) 12 David Pipe
1P46-3U DEEP PURPLE 10 Evan Williams
363221- DEV (IRE) 11 Gordon Elliott IRE
23P1-P0 DON'T PUSH IT (IRE) 11 Jonjo O'Neill
01F24-4 DOONEYS GATE (IRE) 10 Willie Mullins IRE
21PP-PP DREAM ALLIANCE 10 Philip Hobbs
05241P DUERS (IRE) 9 Paul Magnier IRE
3/402P-0 FAASEL (IRE) 10 David Pipe
1500-10 FAIR ALONG (GER) 9 Philip Hobbs
1F3U-P1 FRANKIE FIGG (IRE) 9 Howard Johnson
313-355 FROM DAWN TO DUSK 12 Philip Hobbs
5/2613-P GALANT NUIT (FR) 7 Ferdy Murphy
F123-P2 GILES CROSS (IRE) 9 Victor Dartnall
1-P1440 GLENCOVE MARINA (IRE) 9 Eoin Griffin IRE
421001 GOLDEN KITE (IRE) 9 Adrian Maguire IRE
11FP10 GRAND SLAM HERO (IRE) 10 Nigel Twiston-Davies
P22-41F GULLIBLE GORDON (IRE) 8 Paul Nicholls
005P-1P HELLO BUD (IRE) 13 Nigel Twiston-Davies
P0-24U3 I'MONCLOUDNINE (IRE) 8 Neil Mulholland
F42040 I'MSINGINGTHEBLUES (IRE) 9 David Pipe
566U-34 IN COMPLIANCE (IRE) 11 Dessie Hughes IRE
3131-32 JUNIOR 8 David Pipe
121616- JUST AMAZING (IRE) 8 Paul Nicholls
315F-0(3) KHACHATURIAN (IRE) 8 Donald McCain
P2P-253 KILLYGLEN (IRE) 9 Stuart Crawford IRE
3211-11 KING FONTAINE (IRE) 8 Malcolm Jefferson
3P-0204 LE BEAU BAI (FR) 8 Richard Lee
16-1155 LITTLE JOSH (IRE) 9 Nigel Twiston-Davies
U62/1-31 MAJESTIC CONCORDE (IRE) 8 Dermot Weld IRE
P1P-41U MEANUS DANDY (IRE) 8 Paul Nicholls
0D61-0F MERIGO (FR) 10 Green Andrew Parker
1-41111 MIDNIGHT CHASE 9 Neil Mulholland
15P-614 MOBAASHER (USA) 8 Venetia Williams
1-122B0 NEDZER'S RETURN (IRE) 9 Gordon Elliott IRE
F14/-B01 NEPTUNE COLLONGES (FR) 10 Paul Nicholls
520P-F5 NICHE MARKET (IRE) 10 Paul Nicholls
331-P31 NICTO DE BEAUCHENE (FR) 10 Victor Dartnall
021-062 NOBLE CONCORDE 9 Jim Culloty IRE
P-55004 NORTHERN ALLIANCE (IRE) 10 Tony Martin IRE
4UP-250 NOTRE PERE (FR) 10 Barry Potts IRE
1P0-053 ONE COOL COOKIE (IRE) 10 Charlie Swan IRE
2F1425 OR NOIR DE SOMOZA (FR) 9 Jean Pierre Totain FR
1215/1P/- ORNAIS (FR) 9 Paul Nicholls
3152-26 OSCAR TIME (IRE) 10 Martin Lynch IRE
013111- OUR MONTY (IRE) 8 Willie Mullins IRE
00P-234 PIRAYA (FR) 8 David Pipe
PF4-536 POMME TIEPY (FR) 8 Willie Mullins IRE
321112 PUTNEY BRIDGE 9 Keith Goldsworthy
012P51 QUEZAC DE LA ROQUE (FR) 7 Francois Cottin FR
510-113 QUINZ (FR) 7 Philip Hobbs
0/1160-2 QUISCOVER FONTAINE (FR) 7 Willie Mullins IRE
2F-FF25 QUOLIBET (FR) 7 Francois Doumen FR
560-P23 REGAL HEIGHTS (IRE) 10 Tom George
3P6/454- ROLL ALONG (IRE) 11 Nigel Twiston-Davies
P5U-42P ROYAL ROSA (FR) 12 Howard Johnson
111U0-6 SADDLERS STORM (IRE) 9 Tony Martin IRE
31-PP11 SAGALYRIQUE (FR) 7 Donald McCain
6-22000 SANTA'S SON (IRE) 11Howard Johnson
20-3534 SCOTSIRISH (IRE) 10 Willie Mullins IRE
5121-00 SILVER BY NATURE 9 Lucinda Russell
41/313-0 SKIPPERS BRIG (IRE) 10 Nicky Richards
032236- SNOWY MORNING (IRE) 11 Colin Bowe IRE
11P61/0/- STARZAAN (IRE) 12 Hughie Morrison
0/144/P3- STATE OF PLAY 11 Evan Williams
PP2/111/- SURFACE TO AIR 10 Chris Bealby
131-561 SYNCHRONISED (IRE) 8 Jonjo O'Neill
14P//1-0F TARANIS (FR) 10 Paul Nicholls
UP-3631 TATENEN (FR) 7 Richard Rowe
301050 THAT'S RHYTHM (FR) 11 Martin Todhunter
U3133-2 THE MIDNIGHT CLUB (IRE) 10 Willie Mullins IRE
00-5064 THE SAWYER (BEL) 11 Bob Buckler
204/12-P THE SLIOTAR (IRE) 10Philip Hobbs
205-244 THE TOTHER ONE (IRE) 10 Paul Nicholls
104-322 TIDAL BAY (IRE) 10 Howard Johnson
4F2P-43 TINAKELLYLAD (IRE) 7 Mouse Morris IRE
311120- TOBY JUG 10 Sarah Humphrey
2106-11 TRANQUIL SEA (IRE) 9 Edward O'Grady IRE
F/116PP- TREACLE (IRE) 10 Tom Taaffe IRE
1/2100-P TRICKY TRICKSTER (IRE) 8 Paul Nicholls
501B-00 VIC VENTURI (IRE) 11 Dessie Hughes IRE
2P/00-11 WEST END ROCKER (IRE) 9 Alan King
61/211-5 WHAT A FRIEND 8 Paul Nicholls
\PJ/
02-02-2011, 03:24 PM
don't push it
Novo
02-02-2011, 03:28 PM
Good shout, last years winner as well AP was on him though not sure who will be riding him this year

The Midnight club for me
michael21
15-02-2011, 06:25 PM
The tother one
Locke.
15-02-2011, 08:46 PM
I will be picking out the winner this year, we've had two very silly winners the last 2 years.

Hopefully Black Apalachi is running again
Novo
08-04-2011, 03:35 AM
Full Field


Aintree Grand National field

1) 23P1-P070 DON'T PUSH IT (IRE) 11-11-10 Jonjo O'Neill Tony McCoy
2) 104-3226 TIDAL BAY (IRE) 10-11-09 Howard Johnson Brian Hughes
3) 61/211-524 WHAT A FRIEND 8-11-06 Paul Nicholls Daryl Jacob
4) 501B-7744 VIC VENTURI (IRE) 11-11-06 Dessie Hughes IRE Andrew Lynch
5) U62/1-31 MAJESTIC CONCORDE (IRE) 8-11-05 Dermot Weld IRE Mr Robbie McNamara
6) 2F1425 OR NOIR DE SOMOZA (FR) 9-11-05 David Pipe Tom Scudamore
7) 01F24-41 DOONEYS GATE (IRE) 10-11-04 Willie Mullins IRE Mr Patrick Mullins
8) 2U14-2F44 BIG FELLA THANKS 9-11-01 Ferdy Murphy Graham Lee
9) 205-244 THE TOTHER ONE (IRE) 10-11-00 Paul Nicholls Mr Ryan Mahon
10) 3111-112 BALLABRIGGS (IRE) 10-11-00 Donald McCain Jason Maguire
11) U3133-21 THE MIDNIGHT CLUB (IRE) 10-10-13 Willie Mullins IRE Ruby Walsh
12) 529P-F58 NICHE MARKET (IRE) 10-10-13 Paul Nicholls Harry Skelton
13) 5121-071 SILVER BY NATURE 9-10-12 Lucinda Russell Peter Buchanan
14) 0BP-57011 BACKSTAGE (FR) 9-10-12 Gordon Elliott IRE Paul Carberry
15) 30011-753F CHIEF DAN GEORGE (IRE) 11-10-12 Jimmy Moffatt Paddy Aspell
16) 4-56242 CALGARY BAY (IRE) 8-10-10 Henrietta Knight Hadden Frost
17) P2P-2536 KILLYGLEN (IRE) 9-10-10 Stuart Crawford IRE Robert Power
18) 3152-263 OSCAR TIME (IRE) 10-10-09 Martin Lynch IRE Mr Sam Waley-Cohen
19) 510-1131 QUINZ (FR) 7-10-08 Philip Hobbs Richard Johnson
20) 2212-42 BECAUSEICOULDNTSEE (IRE) 8-10-08 Noel Glynn IRE Davy Russell
21) 2/000-06P COMPLY OR DIE (IRE) 12-10-08 David Pipe Timmy Murphy
22) 2F-FF25P QUOLIBET (FR) 7-10-08 Jonjo O'Neill Mark Walsh
23) 11FP18P GRAND SLAM HERO (IRE) 10-10-07 Nigel Twiston-Davies Aidan Coleman
24) 0/144/P3- STATE OF PLAY 11-10-06 Evan Williams Paul Moloney
25) 3211-11P5 KING FONTAINE (IRE) 8-10-06 Malcolm Jefferson Denis O'Regan
26) 566U-3431U IN COMPLIANCE (IRE) 11-10-05 Dessie Hughes IRE Leighton Aspell
27) 005P-1P HELLO BUD (IRE) 13-10-05 Nigel Twiston-Davies Sam Twiston-Davies
28) 2P/07-11P WEST END ROCKER (IRE) 9-10-05 Alan King Robert Thornton
29) 6-2207710 SANTA'S SON (IRE) 11-10-05 Howard Johnson Jamie Moore
30) 0C21-046 BLUESEA CRACKER (IRE) 9-10-04 James Motherway IRE Andrew McNamara
31) 391059 THAT'S RHYTHM (FR) 11-10-04 Martin Todhunter James Reveley
32) PP2/111/-0 SURFACE TO AIR 10-10-04 Chris Bealby Tom Messenger
33) 00P-234PP PIRAYA (FR) 8-10-04 David Pipe Johnny Farrelly
34) 16F-8P5P CAN'T BUY TIME (IRE) 9-10-04 Jonjo O'Neill Richie McLernon
35) 000-30563 CHARACTER BUILDING (IRE) 11-10-04 John Quinn Miss Nina Carberry
36) 1215/1P/-52 ORNAIS (FR) 9-10-04 Paul Nicholls Nick Scholfield
37) 0U2F-0P2 ARBOR SUPREME (IRE) 9-10-03 Willie Mullins IRE David Casey
38) P5U-42P ROYAL ROSA (FR) 12-10-03 Howard Johnson Paul Gallagher
39) 41/313-011 SKIPPERS BRIG (IRE) 10-10-02 Nicky Richards Dominic Elsworth
40) 1d10019 GOLDEN KITE (IRE) 9-10-02 Adrian Maguire IRE Shane Hassett

Reserves (if there are any non-runners before 0900 BST on Friday):

41) 1-006704 ALWAYS WAINING (IRE) 10-10-02 Peter Bowen
42) 3/472P-02 FAASEL (IRE) 10-10-01 David Pipe
43) 3P-72043P LE BEAU BAI (FR) 8-10-01 Richard Lee
44) F123-P22 GILES CROSS (IRE) 9-10-00 Victor Dartnall
Tom.
08-04-2011, 11:49 AM
£20 on Don't Push It at 15/1

I'm normally quite lucky with the Grand National (apart from last year or the year before when I gave a winning bet slip away..) but not so sure this time. Might put another few quid across a few others
Locke.
08-04-2011, 01:47 PM
No Black Apalache :(

Comply or Die it is then.
Locke.
08-04-2011, 11:17 PM
Victor Chandler are paying out on the first 6 places
Novo
08-04-2011, 11:19 PM
1/5 or 1/4?
Locke.
08-04-2011, 11:20 PM
Daily Star are having a free £3 bet
Daily Express free £3 bet
Daily Mirror free £3 bet
The Sun free £1 bet
Locke.
08-04-2011, 11:21 PM
1/5 or 1/4?

Not sure just saw it on punters lounge
Novo
08-04-2011, 11:21 PM
Going to buy the Top 3 then
Locke.
08-04-2011, 11:23 PM
Hopefully you don't have to sign up for different sites with different bank accounts, i'm all out on ladbrokes and paddy power
Locke.
08-04-2011, 11:35 PM
The victor chandler payout is 1/4
Locke.
09-04-2011, 12:31 PM
The £3 free bets are all for blue square, just got mine then
Novo
09-04-2011, 12:55 PM
Is it a code you need to enter Online or is it an in store bet?
Locke.
09-04-2011, 12:56 PM
It's online.. You just go to bluesq.com/star, sign up and then it's supposed to automatically come up. Won't let me sign up though, every username I try it is saying it is taken. Have tried just pressing all random letters aswell
Novo
09-04-2011, 01:23 PM
Doing the same for me as well
Locke.
09-04-2011, 01:45 PM
All the betting sites going so slow
Novo
09-04-2011, 03:07 PM
Midnight Club and Don't Push it need to fall at the first
MTVN
09-04-2011, 03:11 PM
Put £2 on Ballabriggs at 18/1, always bet on this but have never won anything
MTVN
09-04-2011, 03:28 PM
:D :D :D

£36 heading my way!
Locke.
09-04-2011, 03:34 PM
Got Oscar Time, Niche Market and State of Play each way :)
Novo
09-04-2011, 03:38 PM
What a horrible grand national
Locke.
09-04-2011, 04:01 PM
2 horses dead
Novo
09-04-2011, 04:04 PM
Ornais and Dooney's gate
ButterflyGirl
09-04-2011, 05:57 PM
Poor horses , made to race and jump over stupidly high fences and whipped too ,it's just cruel.
Novo
09-04-2011, 07:03 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/04/09/article-1375210-0B8DF57900000578-709_970x815.jpg

Dooney's gate when he fell.. didn't realise it was that bad looks like he fell on his head
GypsyGoth
09-04-2011, 07:05 PM
:shocked:
MTVN
09-04-2011, 07:38 PM
Poor horses , made to race and jump over stupidly high fences and whipped too ,it's just cruel.

By all intents and purposes the horses are actually looked after and treated very well, a lot better than most horses are
Smithy
09-04-2011, 07:40 PM
Aww the poor horse :sad:
ButterflyGirl
09-04-2011, 09:38 PM
By all intents and purposes the horses are actually looked after and treated very well, a lot better than most horses are

They do look very well looked after and they aren't neglected like some horses are but it just upsets me that they have to do those races, maybe it would better if the heights they have to jump weren't so high then there would be no chance of them getting injured or dying.
Kerry
10-04-2011, 01:25 AM
Just read about the horses' deaths :(
Pyramid*
10-04-2011, 09:13 AM
Regardless of how well the horses are treated, they are trained for racing and jumping - to win races - not to die in them. It's as though it's been viewed as 'collatoral damage' which is pretty sick imo.

Everyone who has bet on the Grand National and whooping about what they 'won' - did so at the cost of the lives of 2 beautiful creatures. It's time this event was stopped.
MTVN
10-04-2011, 09:29 AM
Regardless of how well the horses are treated, they are trained for racing and jumping - to win races - not to die in them. It's as though it's been viewed as 'collatoral damage' which is pretty sick imo.

Everyone who has bet on the Grand National and whooping about what they 'won' - did so at the cost of the lives of 2 beautiful creatures. It's time this event was stopped.

It's sad that they died and there always is a chance they might do so, but their lives are far better than the majority of horses. Unless you're a vegetarian I would consider it pretty hypocritical for anyone to try and take the moral highground in this issue as well
Pyramid*
10-04-2011, 09:36 AM
It's sad that they died and there always is a chance they might do so, but their lives are far better than the majority of horses. Unless you're a vegetarian I would consider it pretty hypocritical for anyone to try and take the moral highground in this issue as well

I don't find it hypocritical at all. It's cruelty, plain and simple. Certain animals are bred for human consumption: race horses aren't - they are bred and trained to race - but it shouldn't be at the cost of their lives being put at risk - for what - so people can make a few £'s????

That's a world away from breeding animals to enter the food chain - for humans to exist and being killed by racing which is for financial gain.

And please don't bleat on about 'unless you are a vegetarian' ..... humans - and certainly babies and young children need the nutritional value of meat/animal products for healthy growth - if you don't believe me - check out the recent story of the veggie mother who breast fed her child and it died because babies need more than what veggie mother breast milk contains. I believe the mother is being charged with aiding the death OWTTE. Vegans are only a step away from Vegetarians....let's not kid on here. http://www.hunter-gatherer.com/blog/vegan-baby-dies-because-mothers-milk-was-vitamin-deficient
joeysteele
10-04-2011, 09:46 AM
I really hate to hear of Horses dying after or in any race, the Grand National seems to have a better record recently.Lots seemed to be injured or died in the past from reading up on it.

However, the Horses actually seem to love the race,you know the old saying of, you can take a horse to water but cannot make them drink it, well if they don't want to jump they pull up and often unseat the rider too.

Very sad for the 2 that died though.
They clearly are well looked after as MTVN said because it is very expensive to have and keep racehorses so there is no point in neglectiing the care of them.
I mean watch the ones who have unseated their rider, they still run round that course alone and still jumping the fences with the others even then.
MTVN
10-04-2011, 09:50 AM
I don't find it hypocritical at all. It's cruelty, plain and simple. Certain animals are bred for human consumption: race horses aren't - they are bred and trained to race - but it shouldn't be at the cost of their lives being put at risk - for what - so people can make a few £'s????

That's a world away from breeding animals to enter the food chain - for humans to exist and being killed by racing which is for financial gain.

And please don't bleat on about 'unless you are a vegetarian' ..... humans - and certainly babies and young children need the nutritional value of meat/animal products for healthy growth - if you don't believe me - check out the recent story of the veggie mother who breast fed her child and it died because babies need more than what veggie mother breast milk contains. I believe the mother is being charged with aiding the death OWTTE. Vegans are only a step away from Vegetarians....let's not kid on here. http://www.hunter-gatherer.com/blog/vegan-baby-dies-because-mothers-milk-was-vitamin-deficient

I think it's completely hypocritical, next time you sit down to a KFC or a McDonalds or just your average Roast, think about how well that animal must have been treated, how good a life it had. Compare that to having horses which are looked after very well, kept in top class stables, and regularly checked up on by vets.

And yes, there's a big difference between vegetarians and vegans, find me a link that says you cant survive on a vegetarian diet and then I'll listen. Noone needs to eat meat anymore, I do regularly, but I'm not the one getting on the moral highground here. You cant criticise horse racign for being cruel and then sit down to a meal where an animal has lived in sh*t conditions it's whole life just so it can eventually be eaten by you to satisfy your desire to have meat. It's hypocritical.
Pyramid*
10-04-2011, 09:57 AM
I think it's completely hypocritical, next time you sit down to a KFC or a McDonalds or just your average Roast, think about how well that animal must have been treated, how good a life it had. Compare that to having horses which are looked after very well, kept in top class stables, and regularly checked up on by vets.

And yes, there's a big difference between vegetarians and vegans, find me a link that says you cant survive on a vegetarian diet and then I'll listen. Noone needs to eat meat anymore, I do regularly, but I'm not the one getting on the moral highground here. You cant criticise horse racign for being cruel and then sit down to a meal where an animal has lived in sh*t conditions it's whole life just so it can eventually be eaten by you to satisfy your desire to have meat. It's hypocritical.

when was the last time a Sheep Dog died and was put into the food chain? ...... it doesn't happen -so therefore it has nothing to do with people eating animal meat or not.

Certain animals are bred for a variety of purposes. Race horses are bred to race - not to have their lives endangered and risk losing their lives all because some greedy people want to make bets and have a flutter.

I can critisise what I want to - as I am perfectly entitled to my opinion. You might not like it, you might not agree with it, but it's still an opinion, it's mine and I have every right to voice it - as do you.

FTR - I don't tend to eat meats that are raised in '****' conditions overall. As for Mc Donalds and KFC etc: again, it is something I very rarely ingest. The roasts I tend to eat happen to have grown up in the countryside - outside in the fresh air, being fed and watered, tended to as nature intended........
Pyramid*
10-04-2011, 10:00 AM
I really hate to hear of Horses dying after or in any race, the Grand National seems to have a better record recently.Lots seemed to be injured or died in the past from reading up on it.

However, the Horses actually seem to love the race,you know the old saying of, you can take a horse to water but cannot make them drink it, well if they don't want to jump they pull up and often unseat the rider too.

Very sad for the 2 that died though.
They clearly are well looked after as MTVN said because it is very expensive to have and keep racehorses so there is no point in neglectiing the care of them.
I mean watch the ones who have unseated their rider, they still run round that course alone and still jumping the fences with the others even then.

Horses like speed - it's one of the things that they are naturally built for: training them to run and race isn't my issue. What is my issue are races such as the GN - where conditions are cramped at jumps, jumps that are extremely high and dangerous. If they werent - 2 horses would not have died yesterday.
MTVN
10-04-2011, 10:11 AM
when was the last time a Sheep Dog died and was put into the food chain? ...... it doesn't happen -so therefore it has nothing to do with people eating animal meat or not.

Certain animals are bred for a variety of purposes. Race horses are bred to race - not to have their lives endangered and risk losing their lives all because some greedy people want to make bets and have a flutter.

I can critisise what I want to - as I am perfectly entitled to my opinion. You might not like it, you might not agree with it, but it's still an opinion, it's mine and I have every right to voice it - as do you.

FTR - I don't tend to eat meats that are raised in '****' conditions overall. As for Mc Donalds and KFC etc: again, it is something I very rarely ingest. The roasts I tend to eat happen to have grown up in the countryside - outside in the fresh air, being fed and watered, tended to as nature intended........

So it's alright for animals to be killed if that's the intention of their life but if a couple die as an unfortunate consequence of horse racing it's suddenly "cruel"? Would you object to people eating horse meat?
Pyramid*
10-04-2011, 10:18 AM
So it's alright for animals to be killed if that's the intention of their life but if a couple die as an unfortunate consequence of horse racing it's suddenly "cruel"? Would you object to people eating horse meat?

Yes. That's it precisely. The racehorse is not bred to die by being trained to race and then given cramped conditions and inordinately high jumps in which to risk it's life - for the sake of a bit of gambling. For let's be honest: that's what it amounts to.

I'm not in favour of horsemeat being consumed. I wouldn't expect to throw my cat into the pot when it dies either. By your reckoning - I'm guessing that you think pets should be eaten when they die - for that very much seems to be the angle that you are coming from.
MTVN
10-04-2011, 10:20 AM
Yes. That's it precisely. The racehorse is not bred to die by being trained to race and then given cramped conditions and inordinately high jumps in which to risk it's life - for the sake of a bit of gambling. For let's be honest: that's what it amounts to.

I'm not in favour of horsemeat being consumed. I wouldn't expect to throw my cat into the pot when it dies either. By your reckoning - I'm guessing that you think pets should be eaten when they die - for that very much seems to be the angle that you are coming from.

Where did I say that? :conf2:
Pyramid*
10-04-2011, 10:24 AM
Where did I say that? :conf2:

I'm trying to establish where your own views lie on the deaths of animals and eating them.

if you don't have boundaries - I feel it's very hypocritical of you to find fault that I have boundaries.
MTVN
10-04-2011, 10:34 AM
I'm trying to establish where your own views lie on the deaths of animals and eating them.

if you don't have boundaries - I feel it's very hypocritical of you to find fault that I have boundaries.

Well I have personal boundaries, but I dont get judgemental about the death of animals, we're all guilty of it one way or another, it's all relative depending on culture, custom etc I guess.
Pyramid*
10-04-2011, 10:42 AM
Well I have personal boundaries, but I dont get judgemental about the death of animals, we're all guilty of it one way or another, it's all relative depending on culture, custom etc I guess.

Ah right I see. It's okay for you to have boundaries, okay for you to criticise anothers boundaries that simply don't match yours.

As I say: pets are animals. They aren't usually eaten when they die - because they are deemed as pets - not as food. Working sheepdogs are animals, they aren't usuall eaten when they die - because they are deemed to be working animals, not food. Racehorses are animals, they aren't usually eaten as food when they die because they are deemed to be 'working animals' - but deaths suh as these 2 horses yesterday came about through having no other value to humans other than being bred (and ultimately die) for nothing more than entertainment value only. Doesn't matter how good they were treated: they are bred for nothing more then entertainment - as as shown yesterday: the price of that entertaiment value can be painful death.

And you have the temerity to call me a hypocrite.
MTVN
10-04-2011, 10:47 AM
Ah right I see. It's okay for you to have boundaries, okay for you to criticise anothers boundaries that simply don't match yours.

As I say: pets are animals. They aren't usually eaten when they die - because they are deemed as pets - not as food. Working sheepdogs are animals, they aren't usuall eaten when they die - because they are deemed to be working animals, not food. Racehorses are animals, they aren't usually eaten as food when they die because they are deemed to be 'working animals' - but deaths suh as these 2 horses yesterday came about through having no other value to humans other than being bred (and ultimately die) for nothing more than entertainment value only. Doesn't matter how good they were treated: they are bred for nothing more then entertainment - as as shown yesterday: the price of that entertaiment value can be painful death.

And you have the temerity to call me a hypocrite.

You missed the point; I'm not criticising you for having boundaries, I'm criticising you for trying to impose those on others and getting sanctimonious about it. And again, I reiterate that these horses live far better lives than most do, if they weren't racing they'd probably be in a lot worse condition than they are
Pyramid*
10-04-2011, 10:52 AM
You missed the point; I'm not criticising you for having boundaries, I'm criticising you for trying to impose those on others and getting sanctimonious about it. And again, I reiterate that these horses live far better lives than most do, if they weren't racing they'd probably be in a lot worse condition than they are


I'm not imposing anything on others at all. I'm putting my view across - if anyone is getting santamonious - it is you - after all, you are the one who brought the 'unless you are a vegetarian, you are a hypocrite and shouldn't be commenting' patter.

Well..... far as I see it: unless you are happy to eat your pets etc - you are in no position to critisise.

Animals are there for different purposes. I happen to disagree that entertainment value only - for the sake of a flutter - is a good reason for an animal to die. You seem to forget that racehorses don't just magically 'appear'....they are bred for the purpose of entertainment value. they aren't just rounded up from Dartmoor and trained. they are purposely bred to provide entertainment only - and ultimately, that entertaiment can lead to unnecessary death.
MTVN
10-04-2011, 11:04 AM
I'm not imposing anything on others at all. I'm putting my view across - if anyone is getting santamonious - it is you - after all, you are the one who brought the 'unless you are a vegetarian, you are a hypocrite and shouldn't be commenting' patter.

Well..... far as I see it: unless you are happy to eat your pets etc - you are in no position to critisise.

Animals are there for different purposes. I happen to disagree that entertainment value only - for the sake of a flutter - is a good reason for an animal to die. You seem to forget that racehorses don't just magically 'appear'....they are bred for the purpose of entertainment value. they aren't just rounded up from Dartmoor and trained. they are purposely bred to provide entertainment only - and ultimately, that entertaiment can lead to unnecessary death.

Well you said it should be banned. I wouldnt eat my own pets but as I'm sure you know, dog meat is eaten in some parts of the world and I dont judge them for it because as I said, it's all relative. But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one
Pyramid*
10-04-2011, 11:10 AM
Well you said it should be banned. I wouldnt eat my own pets but as I'm sure you know, dog meat is eaten in some parts of the world and I dont judge them for it because as I said, it's all relative. But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one

any animal that dies for entertaiment value only: yes, I agree, that type of human entertainment, should be banned.