Big Fat Gypsy Wedding - At the Cemetery

[Pyramid*]

this week they showed many of the travellers all congregating at the burial spot of a one of the sons - paying homage and respect on the boy's anniversary.

My initial reaction watching this was seeing them all there, sitting about and around the grave, complete with cans of booze, sitting, standing around drinking out of cans as they paid their respects - and to be perfectly honest, I was pretty appalled.

I understand the parents, immediate family etc, close friends wishing to visit - but I couldn't help but think of that them all standing around slugging beer and cider - how totally disrespectful to those who may be attending the burial of their own loved ones, in services which are naturally sad and sombre in nature and that as much I found it touching that so many of the travellers had actually gone to visit the graveside - I was equally as disgusted that they felt it was more than fine to sit there and have their own quiet but boozy party going on.

Far as I can see, in the main, those who have taken part in this documentary surely to christ cannot honestly think that it will show travellers in a good light or reflect well upon them? How anyone could think that a large squad of people, swigging booze at a graveside would be a positive image of their culture/tradition etc, totally dumbfounds me. :conf:

If you were burying a loved one of your own or attending a funeral at the same time and saw this: how do you think you would feel about it?

[Kerry]

I was uncomfortable watching it. Especially as I was quite sure I saw some of them casually sitting on other gravestones slugging lager. It'd certainly piss me off if I was visiting my loved ones graves but travellers tend not to be people to be reasoned with..... :( Most people would have to walk away and come back another time. Not something anyone should have to do

[Zippy]

My initial reaction watching this was seeing them all there, sitting about and around the grave, complete with cans of booze, sitting, standing around drinkin got of cans as they paid their respects - and to be perfectly honest, I was pretty appalled.



I can't believe theyre allowed to do that!

I'd be disgusted if my brothers grave was there and I was visiting on his birthday or something

such selfish scumbags

[Pyramid*]

I was uncomfortable watching it. Especially as I was quite sure I saw some of them casually sitting on other gravestones slugging lager. It'd certainly piss me off if I was visiting my loved ones graves but travellers tend not to be people to be reasoned with..... :( Most people would have to walk away and come back another time. Not something anyone should have to do

I didn't tape it, but I think I saw that as well - certainly they were standing on/ around the other graves etc.... and yes, I would be incensed if it was happening on my loved ones grave. I'm pretty sure if non travellers were to disrespect their loved ones burial spot in the same manner, they'd have something to say about it.

As I say, from the pov that many wanted to be there to 'show there respect' to the dead son - the manner in which they did it, with total disregard to the significance of the place, of the quiet, peaceful, serene nature of a place of rest that is not theirs soley - I thought they showed complete selfishness in their own needs/wants with no regard at all for others.

Unsurprising that Travellers get so much grief from so many if this is typical of what goes on and what they think is acceptable - given that they are part of society.

[Pyramid*]

I can't believe theyre allowed to do that!

I'd be disgusted if my brothers grave was there and I was visiting on his birthday or something

such selfish scumbags

Without a word of a lie - it wasn't even surrepticious. All very open, cans in hand, passing out the 'carry out' etc, standing, sitting, lying around the gravestones, grass area, seating area and footpath. Discreet it was not.

[Kerry]

Not to mention the music blaring from the car

[Zippy]

Oh I did see it. Just couldnt believe it was allowed.

this show aint winning them fans

[Pyramid*]

Not to mention the music blaring from the car

I can't recall hearing that tbf, but in saying that - I think I was stunned from taking in what I was seeing that it possibly never registered.

The one other image sticking in my mind is the father in his white vest top, kissing the photo of the son that was on the headstone, and seeing it look as though he'd spat on it (not deliberately, it just sort of looked like it happened accidentally) - whilst he had his can of beer in hand and raised the can to the gravestone to signify 'toasting'.

The trailer (no pun intended) for next week's show, highlighted a traveller saying that they were proud and honourable people. I didn't see much honour being bestowed to those who may have been sharing the cemetery that day to visit their own loved ones buried there.

[Pyramid*]

Oh I did see it. Just couldnt believe it was allowed.

this show aint winning them fans

Ahh... see what you mean!!! That's the thing I can't understand: where on earth did any of those that are taking part in the filming of these things, think that this would 'help their cause' - help in trying to bridge the gap between traveller and non travellers and the animosity that exists. What did they truly believe would be beneficial for all this to be filmed.

Certainly things can be edited and misrepresented / manipulated:- but there needs to be core activity to work on - and they were most certainly all there, behaving in this way - and I wouldn't be surprised if there was editing on that footage - I have a feeling that what we saw was the tamer, more 'palatable' viewer friendly version.

[GypsyGoth]

I thought it was a nice way to celebrate someone's life. Shame they don't do it for girl gypsies who die.

[Pyramid*]

I thought it was a nice way to celebrate someone's life. Shame they don't do it for girl gypsies who die.

You seriously think it was nice to see a large group of adults hanging around a grave, doing nothing much other than standing about, slugging booze, passing cans around each other and not respecting the other burial grounds of others non travellers? Words fail me.

[GypsyGoth]

You seriously think it was nice to see a large group of adults hanging around a grave, doing nothing much other than standing about, slugging booze, passing cans around each other and not respecting the other burial grounds of others non travellers? Words fail me.

I've drank in a graveyard with friends at night.

And it's good to see people going to one and having a sort of celebration. Also I don't think they were disrespecting other peoples grave.

Plus it was their custom, and I didn't see anyone complaining.

[Kerry]

Actually, a thoughts just crossed my mind.... they slug beers by the graveside. I dread to think where they relieve themselves :( Piss up a gravestone? :mad:

No, it's not respectful in the slightest and I'd actually wonder if many of the dead would want to be 'worshipped' that way

I've no problem with how people wish to live their lives but if they want respect from 'outsiders' they need to be respectful of them too. Travellers (many, not all) simply are not

Remember that student pissing up a war memorial? How the nation hated him? Well, think about it........

[Kerry]

I've drank in a graveyard with friends at night.

And it's good to see people going to one and having a sort of celebration. Also I don't think they were disrespecting other peoples grave.

Plus it was their custom, and I didn't see anyone complaining.

Because people daren't. Ever encountered a travellers threat? It's not pretty. Usually involves at the very slightest a brick though your window

[Judas]

I've drank in a graveyard with friends at night.


That hardly makes it ok. I've still not watched the programme in question, but this thread has finally inspired me to do just that now.

[Kerry]

That hardly makes it ok. I've still not watched the programme in question, but this thread has finally inspired me to do just that now.

Apparently (though don't quote me) next weeks is the more 'civilised' side

Check out C4 OD if you want to see the others :)

[Kerry]

Last weeks episode with the disrespect in question (http://www.channel4.com/programmes/big-fat-gypsy-weddings/4od#3163686)

[Pyramid*]

I've drank in a graveyard with friends at night.

And it's good to see people going to one and having a sort of celebration. Also I don't think they were disrespecting other peoples grave.

Plus it was their custom, and I didn't see anyone complaining.

That doesn't mean it was correct behaviour. Nor respectful - indeed, hanging around drinking in graveyards tends to be something underagers do at night because there is no one around to see them drinking.

You think standing around en masse drinking cans of booze at a graveyard can be classed as an appropriate place to celebrate anything?

What about the time old tradition and custom of graveyards being places of peace, of calm, respectful, reflective dignity or doesn't that count?

[Pyramid*]

Last weeks episode with the disrespect in question (http://www.channel4.com/programmes/big-fat-gypsy-weddings/4od#3163686)

Thanks for that. the very last section covers this topic..... yes, music blaring out from the car - as per Paddy... the mother plays them every year and doesn't care who hears it or doens't hear it. A squad of people tramping all over other people's graves whilst Paddy and his mates lift crates of stongbow out of car boots to pass around, to have along with their cigarettes. And I'm quite sure their fag butts will be left dropped where they stood....all over other people's graves.

Nice touch are the boxes of booze lying around at the gravesides.

In fact, at the end, pause and you'll see 2 men, sitting on someone else's headrest, being used as a seat, talking and drinking, with one of them with their feet inside the little brick boundary that's been laid. Yep, this is really respectful stuff.

[Kerry]

A lot of the time the police daren't touch them either. Is it even legal to drink there? And who's driving the car? Aren't they causing a nuisance? They get away with alsorts as people are sh!t scared of their reputation

On the plus side they do seem to be moving on by the generation...... (slightly)

[Pyramid*]

A lot of the time the police daren't touch them either. Is it even legal to drink there? And who's driving the car? Aren't they causing a nuisance? They get away with alsorts as people are sh!t scared of their reputation

On the plus side they do seem to be moving on by the generation...... (slightly)

Isn't drinking in a public place illegal? So is earning money on the side and not paying tax - but that's not stopped many (not all) travellers of this ilk doing precisely that.

Having watched the 'Cemetery' scene again, I didn't quite fully appreicate how many were there, how spread out over the area they were, or quite how many other people's graves they were trampling around.

As for the girl dressed in the pink shorts, demin boots.... can you imagine some other funeral party arriving, to bury their child and being met with that lot, with music belting out of car stereo, imagine a priest trying to say service with all that going on around.

[Kerry]

Isn't drinking in a public place illegal? So is earning money on the side and not paying tax - but that's not stopped many (not all) travellers of this ilk doing precisely that.

Having watched the 'Cemetery' scene again, I didn't quite fully appreicate how many were there, how spread out over the area they were, or quite how many other people's graves they were trampling around.

As for the girl dressed in the pink shorts, demin boots.... can you imagine some other funeral party arriving, to bury their child and being met with that lot, with music belting out of car stereo, imagine a priest trying to say service with all that going on around.

I think drinking in a public place is one of those grey areas. I know I've seen areas in the city centre which say 'drinking in this space is prohibited' which would lead you to believe anywhere else is fine. That said, I think it's at police descretion. Basically sitting and sharing a bottle of wine with a loved one in the park would be fine. Rioting through a graveyard....... well you'd like to think not...

[MTVN]

Last weeks episode with the disrespect in question (http://www.channel4.com/programmes/big-fat-gypsy-weddings/4od#3163686)

At what point does this bit get shown?

[Kerry]

At what point does this bit get shown?

Towards the end I believe

[MTVN]

Towards the end I believe

Ok thanks Kerry I'll have a look

[Pyramid*]

I think drinking in a public place is one of those grey areas. I know I've seen areas in the city centre which say 'drinking in this space is prohibited' which would lead you to believe anywhere else is fine. That said, I think it's at police descretion. Basically sitting and sharing a bottle of wine with a loved one in the park would be fine. Rioting through a graveyard....... well you'd like to think not...

found this... http://drinkdrivingpenalties.co.uk/drinking-alcohol-in-public

Illegal to be drunk and disorderly but local councils may impose by-laws to cover areas such as parks, public transport, city centres etc.

I'd certainly consider what these travellers to be doing in a cemetery could be considered being a nuisance though, and something that shouldn't be tolerated.

[Pyramid*]

At what point does this bit get shown?

It's the very last segment when the clip starts at around 42 minutes into it.

[MTVN]

Ok just had a look, and I'm personally not opposed to it

If you ask me there is no set way of honouring your dea; there is no law or rule that dictates how you are supposed to show respect. If this is they Gypsy custom to have a drink in memory of the departed then I'm not going to judge them for it and tell them what they are doing is wrong because in their eyes it certainly isnt

[Kerry]

Ok just had a look, and I'm personally not opposed to it

If you ask me there is no set way of honouring your dea; there is no law or rule that dictates how you are supposed to show respect. If this is they Gypsy custom to have a drink in memory of the departed then I'm not going to judge them for it and tell them what they are doing is wrong because in their eyes it certainly isnt

So you'd be fine with them sitting on one of your family members gravestone?

[Pyramid*]

Ok just had a look, and I'm personally not opposed to it

If you ask me there is no set way of honouring your dea; there is no law or rule that dictates how you are supposed to show respect. If this is they Gypsy custom to have a drink in memory of the departed then I'm not going to judge them for it and tell them what they are doing is wrong because in their eyes it certainly isnt

Having a drink in memory of their departed isn't the issue. What the issue is, is the fact that it's been done at the graveside, music blaring, carry outs lying around, other graves being trampled over, other's headstones being sat on and used as seats. That's the disrespectful part, not that they wish to honour their dead - it's the manner in which they are doing it.

[MTVN]

So you'd be fine with them sitting on one of your family members gravestone?

Well I didnt see anyone sitting on a gravestone tbh, plus we dont know who the surrounding graves were, they could have been fellow Gypsies who had been buried in the same area.

But if some of them were sitting on someone they didnt knows gravestone, then no I wouldnt condone that

[Pyramid*]

So you'd be fine with them sitting on one of your family members gravestone?

That also begs the question: taking the 2 travellers sitting on the headstones at the end..... if you were the person visiting that particular grave to pay your own respects - how would you feel to arrive, be met with strangers sitting on your loved ones headstone, getting tanked up.

I don't know anyone, and I mean anyone, who would meet with that situation who wouldn't have something very severe to say about it and who would not be incensed. I'm quite sure if Paddy and his missus arrived at Patrick's graveside and found people sitting all over it, smoking and drinking and not giving a **** about disrespecting a stranger's grave - they'd have plenty to say about that.

[MTVN]

Having a drink in memory of their departed isn't the issue. What the issue is, is the fact that it's been done at the graveside, music blaring, carry outs lying around, other graves being trampled over, other's headstones being sat on and used as seats. That's the disrespectful part, not that they wish to honour their dead - it's the manner in which they are doing it.

Well I suppose trying to make it into a less sombre occassion is all part of their way of honouring their dead.

But if there were some who trampled on others graves and sat on gravestones then as I said I wouldnt condone that. So just to clarfiy, it is not the custom itself that you didnt like, it was just the way it was carried out on this particular show?

[Kerry]

Well I didnt see anyone sitting on a gravestone tbh, plus we dont know who the surrounding graves were, they could have been fellow Gypsies who had been buried in the same area.

But if some of them were sitting on someone they didnt knows gravestone, then no I wouldnt condone that

LOL Ok if they just plonk their arses on a fellow Gypsy grave who they don't know then?

They were in a general cemetery

[Pyramid*]

Well I didnt see anyone sitting on a gravestone tbh, plus we dont know who the surrounding graves were, they could have been fellow Gypsies who had been buried in the same area.

But if some of them were sitting on someone they didnt knows gravestone, then no I wouldnt condone that

right at the end of the clip, sitting there supping out of their cans.

[MTVN]

LOL Ok if they just plonk their arses on a fellow Gypsy grave who they don't know then?

They were in a general cemetery

It isnt unheard of to have people from close-knit communities buried near each other you know

[Kerry]

That also begs the question: taking the 2 travellers sitting on the headstones at the end..... if you were the person visiting that particular grave to pay your own respects - how would you feel to arrive, be met with strangers sitting on your loved ones headstone, getting tanked up.

I don't know anyone, and I mean anyone, who would meet with that situation who wouldn't have something very severe to say about it and who would not be incensed. I'm quite sure if Paddy and his missus arrived at Patrick's graveside and found people sitting all over it, smoking and drinking and not giving a **** about disrespecting a stranger's grave - they'd have plenty to say about that.

Agree

:(

[Kerry]

It isnt unheard of to have people from close-knit communities buried near each other you know

Of course it isn't. I'm not stupid. I've lost enough people to write a book. Hence my increased anger at the total lack of respect. If I were to visit my mother or fathers place of rest and found that sight I'd be incensed

[Pyramid*]

Well I suppose trying to make it into a less sombre occassion is all part of their way of honouring their dead.

But if there were some who trampled on others graves and sat on gravestones then as I said I wouldnt condone that. So just to clarfiy, it is not the custom itself that you didnt like, it was just the way it was carried out on this particular show?

To clarify -I have no issue with honouring the dead, I do have issue however in the manner in which they felt it appropriate to walk over other people's graves, music belting out, sitting on other people's departed loved ones headstones, slugging cans of lager/cider - that's what I didn't like. I don't give a rat's arse whether they be travellers, pygmies, goblin or any other section of society fact or fiction - the manner in which they are chosing to 'honour their dead', in a public cemetery, is completely disrespectful.

A graveyard is a place for quiet reflection, not for having loud celebrations and drinking parties. That's what function rooms, hotels, bars etc are for.

[Pyramid*]

It isnt unheard of to have people from close-knit communities buried near each other you know

Absolutely. Burial ground has been like hens teeth in recent years (and has been the case for many years) so I'm not altogether convinced that this large group knew those buried around the grave they were there to pay respects to.

You're going on the premise that the amount of people that were there, who were walkign all over a fair area and fair amount of graves - all knew every single person who's graves they were walking on / and sitting on? Honestly, I doubt it, I really do.

I didn't see anyone sitting on Patrick's grave ... funny that eh! Perhaps they'd have thought that wasn't the right thing to do........ I wonder why that might have been.

[GypsyGoth]

Well anyway I'm not religious like you guys, maybe I would get more upset about it if I believed in your god.

[Kerry]

I'm not religious. Just respectful

[Kerry]

I'd just like anyone who thinks it's fine to behave that way to sit and think for 5 minutes. You lose someone you love. Dearly love. Family, best friend, pet.... they have a place of rest, wether they're buried or cremated. You arrive to pay your respects or indeed it's the actual day of the funeral to a graveyard full of people blaring out music, boozing, sitting on your loved ones memorial, trampling on whatever may be there and... well you've seen the rest. Goodness knows where they relieve themselves..... doesn't bear thinking about....

You'd be perfectly happy? If you daren't even approach the area? I'd be devastated and furious

[Pyramid*]

Well anyway I'm not religious like you guys, maybe I would get more upset about it if I believed in your god.

1. I'm not religious
2. I am Agnostic.

so you don't have to wory about getting upset about believing in my god since 'he/she/it' doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned.

It's nothing to do with believing in God, you don't have to believe in a God to bury a person.

I do however know the boundaries upon which something is considered respectful or not and sitting around on headstones, slugging booze, music thumping out, carry outs strewn all over other gravesides etc can never ever be considered respectful.

[Pyramid*]

I'd just like anyone who thinks it's fine to behave that way to sit and think for 5 minutes. You lose someone you love. Dearly love. Family, best friend, pet.... they have a place of rest, wether they're buried or cremated. You arrive to pay your respects or indeed it's the actual day of the funeral to a graveyard full of people blaring out music, boozing, sitting on your loved ones memorial, trampling on whatever may be there and... well you've seen the rest. Goodness knows where they relieve themselves..... doesn't bear thinking about....

You'd be perfectly happy? If you daren't even approach the area? I'd be devastated and furious

I am fully in agreement with you Kerry. That anyone could remotely consider that what was shown in this clip, to be regarded as being acceptable, not seemed disrespectful and bang out of order - I'm completely staggered.

[GypsyGoth]

It's nothing to do with believing in God, you don't have to believe in a God to bury a person.


Sorry I didn't know that, I thought graveyards were owned by churches.

[Kerry]

Sorry I didn't know that, I thought graveyards were owned by churches.

Do you think people who aren't religious get thrown in a skip? :D

[GypsyGoth]

Do you think people who aren't religious get thrown in a skip? :D

:hugesmile:

Well my dad was cremated. I just thought that's what non religious people did.

[Kerry]

:hugesmile:

Well my dad was cremated. I just thought that's what non religious people did.

Not as far as I'm aware. I believe it's the persons choice what they want. Both my parents were cremated too and my Nan. My Nan was religious

[dirtyvileHARRYuk]

THE JOE DISAGREES WITH MOST OF YOU POSTING ON THIS THREAD. a few reasons - who is any of us to judge how we remember people ? 2. is it so wrong and so disrespteful to drink and by whos standards? and if there was a funeral going on i am sure they would have respected them and been polite.

i have seen nothing in this community that is not 10 times better then our community and i for one will not agree with anyone on this thread. sorry but thats the joe for you lol

[InOne]

I would not want to cross Paddy Doherty D:

This is him in his not so humble days

fQzYnbljZ9Y

[Kerry]

I wouldn't cross most travellers. They're not usually reasonable

[Kerry]

THE JOE DISAGREES WITH MOST OF YOU POSTING ON THIS THREAD. a few reasons - who is any of us to judge how we remember people ? 2. is it so wrong and so disrespteful to drink and by whos standards? and if there was a funeral going on i am sure they would have respected them and been polite.

i have seen nothing in this community that is not 10 times better then our community and i for one will not agree with anyone on this thread. sorry but thats the joe for you lol

If I sit and get pissed as a fart blasting music out on your grave I'm sure your family would be delighted

[dirtyvileHARRYuk]

they would probably tell you to turn it up

[Kerry]

they would probably tell you to turn it up

Maybe so. But not everyone would

We'll agree to disagree

[Judas]

This is funny, after you suggested I watched the last episode... and it was entertaining to say the least! Then this morning I was speaking to people from home and found out 'gypsys' had been going around my home area and stealing scraps overnight.... stereotypical much!

[Zippy]

fQzYnbljZ9Y

who behaves like this?

lock them in a cage until they grow up

sadly, I don't think they ever do grow up

[Kerry]

The men seem to stay teens and the women are forced to grow up before their time as far as I can make out. No wonder the average age of death for travellers is 50