Does religion deserve respect?

[Crimson Dynamo]

It kills, it lies, it deludes and it makes billions. Do we respect it or should we hound it out?

[Zippy]

Its not a question of respecting religion. Its about respecting the right of others to believe whatever gives them comfort or answers. Even if theyre deluded.

[joeysteele]

No religion,like most anything else in life should get respect unless it earns it.That goes for people who have religious beliefs and all people and institutions in general too.

[Marsh.]

Does a tramp deserve respect?
Does a millionaire deserve respect?
Does a mother deserve respect?
Does opinions deserve respect?
Do differences deserve respect?

Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes.

And evidently religion is used as an excuse for people like Bin Laden to fulfil their own selfish ends.

Decent people who just so happen to share certain beliefs about Gods and the afterlife should be left to do as they please, as should non believers and agnostics.

There's a difference between you rightfully disagreeing with their beliefs and unnecessarily ridiculing people for daring to not see things as you do.

[Scarlett.]

Does a tramp deserve respect?
Does a millionaire deserve respect?
Does a mother deserve respect?
Does opinions deserve respect?
Do differences deserve respect?

Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes.

And evidently religion is used as an excuse for people like Bin Laden to fulfil their own selfish ends.

Decent people who just so happen to share certain beliefs about Gods and the afterlife should be left to do as they please, as should non believers and agnostics.

There's a difference between you rightfully disagreeing with their beliefs and unnecessarily ridiculing people for daring to not see things as you do.

:worship:

[Zippy]

http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/religionsoftheworld00.jpg

jehova's witness: Knock, Knock, "sh!t happens"

:laugh3:

[Smithy]

Its not a question of respecting religion. Its about respecting the right of others to believe whatever gives them comfort or answers. Even if theyre deluded.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lj3q7jIY5O1qclvgf.jpg

[Marsh.]

:worship:

http://th50.photobucket.com/albums/f301/Kiwi8/th_bowing.gif

[Crimson Dynamo]

Should we respect a religion that lies to children and tells them they will go to hell if they are bad and that a man died for them because they are sinners?

[Zippy]

Should we respect a religion that lies to children and tells them they will go to hell if they are bad and that a man died for them because they are sinners?

If you don't respect it then choose not to subscribe to it. Simples.

Or are you asking if it should be banned? Now that's very different.

[Marsh.]

Should we respect a religion that lies to children and tells them they will go to hell if they are bad and that a man died for them because they are sinners?

I'm sorry, are you going for the broad religious pool which is very vast or making specifications? Do make it clearer.

Or are you someone who lumps everyone in the same boxes just so your insults and assumptions seem stronger?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm sorry, are you going for the broad religious pool which is very vast or making specifications? Do make it clearer.

Or are you someone who lumps everyone in the same boxes just so your insults and assumptions seem stronger?

jesus H christ. your points dont get any clearer do they. spit it out.

[Vicky.]

I do not believe in forcing religion on children. I was made to go to sunday school and learn about god and stuff, and I knew from a very young age that it was a load of bollocks, yet still had to go.

But yes, if people decide to follow it...their CHOICE should be respected. I dont necessarily respect religion in general and the lies it tells/problems it seems to cause but if it gived others hope and that, then whats the problem?

[Marsh.]

jesus H christ. your points dont get any clearer do they. spit it out.

You're bashing "RELIGION". All religions are different and have different values.

So, throwing out insults and offensive remarks to "a religion" doesn't hold any water until you're specific.

Can your hard drive process that information or is your bandwidth limited?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I do not believe in forcing religion on children. I was made to go to sunday school and learn about god and stuff, and I knew from a very young age that it was a load of bollocks, yet still had to go.

But yes, if people decide to follow it...their CHOICE should be respected. I dont necessarily respect religion in general and the lies it tells/problems it seems to cause but if it gived others hope and that, then whats the problem?

are you saying that you dont think that the main religions cause problems in the world?

[Crimson Dynamo]

You're bashing "RELIGION". All religions are different and have different values.

So, throwing out insults and offensive remarks to "a religion" doesn't hold any water until you're specific.

Can your hard drive process that information or is your bandwidth limited?


All religions lie to children (maybe not Buddhism) but we are dealing, as others have worked out, with the main religions here.

[Vicky.]

are you saying that you dont think that the main religions cause problems in the world?

I think people who cause trouble tend to hide behind religion to try and justify themselves.

In general, I would say it does more good than harm.

[Marsh.]

are you saying that you dont think that the main religions cause problems in the world?

With people who use religion as an excuse for their evil deeds and ruin the reputation of the genuine everyday believer? Yes.

[Marsh.]

I think people who cause trouble tend to hide behind religion to try and justify themselves.

In general, I would say it does more good than harm.

Nail, banged on the head.

[joeysteele]

I think people who cause trouble tend to hide behind religion to try and justify themselves.

In general, I would say it does more good than harm.

Very strong post, very reasoned.

[Angus]

No-one has to respect Religion which is, after all, nothing but an umbrella term under which all faiths seem to have been dumped. However, one should respect the rights of other people to believe whatever the hell they want that gives meaning and structure to their lives. I would say that telling children there is NOTHING for them other than this short, miserable life, at the end of which there is a black and empty oblivion, irrespective of whether they have been good or evil human beings, is just as illogical and without factual evidence as would be indoctrinating them into any particular religion.

Why not just afford people the courtesy and respect of allowing them to decide for themselves what they wish to believe in? - I daresay most of the belief systems of those on this forum wouldn't stand up to empirical scrutiny.

[Marsh.]

All religions lie to children (maybe not Buddhism) but we are dealing, as others have worked out, with the main religions here.

Contradiction.
But even with the main religions free will is a big factor for when that person grows up and decide whether to be "confirmed" or not.

[Zippy]

In general, I would say it does more good than harm.

I'd say vice versa tbh

just the issue of contraception and safe sex alone has caused millions of unnecessary deaths. Religion certainly doesn't encourage an open mind.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think people who cause trouble tend to hide behind religion to try and justify themselves.

In general, I would say it does more good than harm.

What good does it do?

Do you know how much real estate the catholic church have for example (billions)?

and yet every day they preach about Jesus who taught people to give up wealth and give it to the poor?

[Stu]

People are free to believe what they want but under no circumstances are my obligated to respect it.

It's a persons choice if they want to respect a belief system or not. I hate the current trend that because something is a belief it is therefore sacred and bound to automatic respect.

**** right off. Mormons are knobs.

[Vicky.]

What good does it do?

Do you know how much real estate the catholic church have for example (billions)?

and yet every day they preach about Jesus who taught people to give up wealth and give it to the poor?

Agreed about the financial side. Churches seem out only to get money. I remember when I was young and was dragged along to church with my grandma, twice a week she used to put 20 quid in the collection, but one week she was a bit skint so put a fiver in instead...and the ****ing glare she got was unbelievable, she was actually asked where her 'usual' contribution' was...I think thats taking the mick to be honest, a fivers still a lot more than most would put in.

Anyways, the good it does...it gives hope to those who would have nothing. I know most religions teach ignorance and intolerance, but for every homophobe born out of christianity, theres 10 little old women welcoming death rather than being scared because they think that they are going to meet god or something like that. Personally I think there is nothing at all after death but if it helps those on their deathbed, who am I to begrudge them that.

Not everyone follows the religious teachings to a tee these days anyway, I think you would be hard pushed to find someone who lived their life totally according to the bible or whatever. Everything has its good points and bad points.

[Vicky.]

While saying all this though, I must admit that I still just shut the door on the jehovas witnesses when they come round :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

God told that guy to behead that woman

and if you think "that was not god" then lets see your proof

[Vicky.]

God told that guy to behead that woman

and if you think "that was not god" then lets see your proof

What on earth are you on about now...

So...some crazy guy says god told him to do something. And this means all religion is bad why?

[Zippy]

Personally I think there is nothing at all after death but if it helps those on their deathbed, who am I to begrudge them that.

that's what I think and I'm very happy to think that. Nothing there, nothing to fear.

[Crimson Dynamo]

What on earth are you on about now...

So...some crazy guy says god told him to do something. And this means all religion is bad why?

There is nothing stopping anyone saying god told me to do this. This is why religion is bad. People use a fictitious situation to make people do things like kill, blow them selves up, give money, feel guilt and so on.

[Vicky.]

There is nothing stopping anyone saying god told me to do this. This is why religion is bad. People use a fictitious situation to make people do things like kill, blow them selves up, give money, feel guilt and so on.

Thats terrible reasoning :laugh:

Just because a few crazy people make out that they did whatever for religion...

If there was no religion, they would just blame it on something else.

I massacred 200 people because the banana in my fridge told me to do it. Lets ban bananas.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Thats terrible reasoning :laugh:

Just because a few crazy people make out that they did whatever for religion...

If there was no religion, they would just blame it on something else.

I massacred 200 people because the banana in my fridge told me to do it. Lets ban bananas.

Suicide bombers, 9/11 - all religiously motivated. taliban?

[Stu]

Now I get it. His still a Jesus freak but by pulling off this sort of gimmickery with these **** arguments his getting us to argue for him.

You cunning fox, you.

[Vicky.]

Suicide bombers, 9/11 - all religiously motivated. taliban?

Allegedly

Strange given that the quran teaches peace though...sure it doesnt say in it anything along the lines of go blow up people you dislike.

[Marsh.]

There is nothing stopping anyone saying god told me to do this. This is why religion is bad. People use a fictitious situation to make people do things like kill, blow them selves up, give money, feel guilt and so on.

This post has summarised just how ill educated you are.

Terrorists use religion as an excuse for their selfish crimes and that automatically makes anyone who believes in a God bad?

I say "a God" because everyone believes in different things. Even within specific religions not everyone is the same.

The screams of a mentally unstable madman who beheaded a woman in a supermarket is hardly symbolic of everyone is it?

This is worse than the complaints that Ronnie's baby swap in Eastenders was trying to represent all mothers who lost children to cot death.

[Crimson Dynamo]

This post has summarised just how ill educated you are.

Terrorists use religion as an excuse for their selfish crimes and that automatically makes anyone who believes in a God bad?

I say "a God" because everyone believes in different things. Even within specific religions not everyone is the same.

The screams of a mentally unstable madman who beheaded a woman in a supermarket is hardly symbolic of everyone is it.

This is worse than the complaints that Ronnie's baby swap in Eastenders was trying to represent all mothers who lost children to cot death.


So the "madman" cannot speak to god but a local priest can?

a suicide bomber cannot speak to allah but a bloke down the local mosque can?

how?

[Zippy]

So the "madman" cannot speak to god but a local priest can?

a suicide bomber cannot speak to allah but a bloke down the local mosque can?

how?

:conf:

either you're not very good at explaining your points or I'm a bit slow. Local priests are not committing extreme offences.

[Marsh.]

So the "madman" cannot speak to god but a local priest can?

a suicide bomber cannot speak to allah but a bloke down the local mosque can?

how?

Since when do priests in general commit crimes and evil deeds?

Since when did priests claim they literally speak with God verbally?

Again, ill educated and not very bright at all.

And again, you're suggesting that if the madman did speak with God, that God is evil.
Well that's different to debating whether religion (belief or non belief) is wrong.

Clearly doesn't understand the concept of different religions and different people. You can't lump everyone in one category.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Since when do priests in general commit crimes and evil deeds?

Since when did priests claim they literally speak with God verbally?

Again, ill educated and not very bright at all.

And again, you're suggesting that if the madman did speak with God, that God is evil.
Well that's different to debating whether religion (belief or non belief) is wrong.

ireland for one place

all priests claim to speak to god via praying in churches

[Marsh.]

ireland for one place

all priests claim to speak to god via praying in churches

Praying in a church is not claiming to literally have a conversation with God.
If you think "praying" is literally "talking to God" then you are silly. Plenty people pray, not just priests. It can be a form of meditation.

Even if that was true, how does it represent all religious people?
Is this generalisation still not getting through to you?

And one point. Getting rid of religion will stop people like the madman in the supermarket how exactly?

If someone is criminally insane and is going to kill someone, they'll do it regardless of if there's a church down the road or not.

They'll just find another excuse to make themselves feel better about their evil act.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Praying in a church is not claiming to literally have a conversation with God.
If you think "praying" is literally "talking to God" then you are silly. Plenty people pray, not just priests. It can be a form of meditation.

Even if that was true, how does it represent all religious people?
Is this generalisation still not getting through to you?

And one point. Getting rid of religion will stop people like the madman in the supermarket how exactly?

If someone is criminally insane and is going to kill someone, they'll do it regardless of if there's a church down the road or not.

They'll just find another excuse to make themselves feel better about their evil act.


"If you think "praying" is literally "talking to God" then you are silly"


I nominate this is the single most ridiculous post of 2011:joker:

[Marsh.]

"If you think "praying" is literally "talking to God" then you are silly"


I nominate this is the single most ridiculous post of 2011:joker:

After all the tosh you've come out with today? Don't make me laugh.

Read the rest of my post.

There's a BIG difference between praying to God and talking to God, where a voice talks back telling you to kill people.

Do you understand?

[joeysteele]

:conf:

either you're not very good at explaining your points or I'm a bit slow. Local priests are not committing extreme offences.

:joker:good response Zippy.

[bananarama]

Its not a question of respecting religion. Its about respecting the right of others to believe whatever gives them comfort or answers. Even if theyre deluded.


The problem with that logic is that religious people more often than not don't respect the none religious or indeed those virgin to religion.

Religious people in positions of power will indulge their version of society onto others. Religious parents will indoctronate their children (often refered to as being raised with a particular religion) Inspite of the fact nothing they believe in can be proven and children are vunerable to being groomed with all sorts of rubbish.

As a result of the above comments I have made I conclude that deluded people of any sort should not be respected neither should their deluded beliefs.......

Anyone who takes advantage and grooms children with beliefs that cannot be proven deserves the most utter contempt one can give them....

[Marsh.]

The problem with that logic is that religious people more often than not don't respect the none religious or indeed those virgin to religion.

More generalised nonsense.

[Stu]

That ought to be Bananarama's custom status.

[bananarama]

More generalised nonsense.

Of which you are clearly an expert by making such a lack of detailed response with no intellectual satus what so ever...I feel sorry for people like you as you contribute nothing to a debate

[bananarama]

That ought to be Bananarama's custom status.


Another pointless response........

[Marsh.]

Of which you are clearly an expert by making such a lack of detailed response with no intellectual satus what so ever...I feel sorry for people like you as you contribute nothing to a debate

And you do contribute to the debate? Coming in at the last minute to make a comment on all religious people based off a couple of your own examples.

As I said before, unfair generalisation. And calling my posts a generalisation shows you don't understand anything in this thread.

Satus is not a word. And whatsoever is all one word. Just a tip.

[Liberty4eva]

It kills, it lies, it deludes and it makes billions. Do we respect it or should we hound it out?

Religion does not deserve respect. Probably my biggest gripe against it is it targets children who are the most vulnerable members of society. It deserves to be mocked.

[ElProximo]

Atheism does not deserve respect. Probably my biggest gripe against it is it targets children who are the most vulnerable members of society. It deserves to be mocked.

[joeysteele]

In the past Religion was forced onto Children in Schools,in one faith,the Children were even taught by Nuns. that has all changed in recent times, Religion is still taught obviously in faith schools but in many others it is more a topic than a main subject.

The thing is surely it is Parents who allow their Children to have this instruction, so while it's true that some schools and churches do flood Children with religion,it is supported by the Parents too.

We learn more from others in life, it's where I believe my best experiences will come from and from where I will learn most,maybe its time for all Church hierarchy and Parents to step back and not subject their Children to religious teaching of any format and as the grow and get older,let them make the decision as to if they wish to learn about it themselves.

I can't ever see that day coming though.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Atheism does not deserve respect. Probably my biggest gripe against it is it targets children who are the most vulnerable members of society. It deserves to be mocked.

It does not. People who do not believe in gods dont foist this on children the same way they dont teach them they believe in dragons, invisible men, fiery winged penis's and man eating fannies.

No parent would knowingly tell a small child that there were monsters under their bed so why tell them that there is a devil under the ground?

[ElProximo]

No parent would knowingly tell a small child that there were monsters under their bed so why tell them that there is a devil under the ground?

You are really asking this question?

Parents do not believe there is a monster under the bed and that is why they don't tell children as much.

Parents do believe there is a prison for criminals and they most certainly do tell their children there are police, a prison and they ought to avoid committing crimes.

Parents do believe there is a 'prison' and bad warden for some 'criminals' in the afterlife,
but,
with rare exceptions they don't discuss this with children until they are nearing adults (or old enough to deal with it),
and,
very very few Churches discuss hell other than in in the context of how Jesus makes it unnecessary.

What I did here was mirror your thinking which would go something like this:

It is a kind of 'abuse' to children to never warn them there is consequences to bad behavior. That there is a devil. See I presume that. So since the Devil does exist then it is right and correct and proper I should act accordingly.

and given that the Devil does exist then you are immoral and 'abusive' to children not telling them.
Actually you 'foist' your fake belief on them. Which is really sick.

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

religion-yes

People that use religion to twist for their benefit and use to justify killing-no

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Religion does not deserve respect. Probably my biggest gripe against it is it targets children who are the most vulnerable members of society. It deserves to be mocked.

religion or people that present themselves as priests/pastors?

I know there's a quote in the bible " many will come in my name but not all are pure of heart" or something like that

[Niamh.]

You are really asking this question?

Parents do not believe there is a monster under the bed and that is why they don't tell children as much.

Parents do believe there is a prison for criminals and they most certainly do tell their children there are police, a prison and they ought to avoid committing crimes.

Parents do believe there is a 'prison' and bad warden for some 'criminals' in the afterlife,
but,
with rare exceptions they don't discuss this with children until they are nearing adults (or old enough to deal with it),
and,
very very few Churches discuss hell other than in in the context of how Jesus makes it unnecessary.

What I did here was mirror your thinking which would go something like this:

It is a kind of 'abuse' to children to never warn them there is consequences to bad behavior. That there is a devil. See I presume that. So since the Devil does exist then it is right and correct and proper I should act accordingly.

and given that the Devil does exist then you are immoral and 'abusive' to children not telling them.
Actually you 'foist' your fake belief on them. Which is really sick.

obviously atheists don't believe there is a devil so therefore why would they warn their children about something they don't believe in?

[MTVN]

In a way yes, I wouldnt walk into a Church and piss on the altar and I think people's right to be religous deserves respect. But as a concept it doesnt inherently deserve respect no

[Glenn.]

No.

Nice controversial reply.:joker:




JK. Of course it deserves respect, like all other things.


Edit. Although people should respect what people believe in, I don't condone religion being thrust upon children.

[Stu]

No.

Nice controversial reply.:joker:




JK. Of course it deserves respect, like all other things.


Edit. Although people should respect what people believe in, I don't condone religion being thrust upon children.
Why does it deserve respect? What if you feel it's doctrines don't respect you? Why do 'all other things' deserve respect? Does this extend to homophobia and racism? What if they fit into someones 'beliefs'?

[InOne]

No it does not deserve respect :nono: But I'm not the type to tell an 84 year who goes to mass or anything they're wrong. Religion is not a big part of my life, I hardly ever think about it.

[ElProximo]

obviously atheists don't believe there is a devil so therefore why would they warn their children about something they don't believe in?

Exactly. That is what I was getting at.

[MTVN]

Exactly. That is what I was getting at.

Well which ever path that you yourself follow it is likely you will bring your kids up that way and there'll always be criticism from one side or the other.

[LaLaLand]

Does a tramp deserve respect?
Does a millionaire deserve respect?
Does a mother deserve respect?
Does opinions deserve respect?
Do differences deserve respect?

Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes.

And evidently religion is used as an excuse for people like Bin Laden to fulfil their own selfish ends.

Decent people who just so happen to share certain beliefs about Gods and the afterlife should be left to do as they please, as should non believers and agnostics.

There's a difference between you rightfully disagreeing with their beliefs and unnecessarily ridiculing people for daring to not see things as you do.

Touché!

[ElProximo]

Well which ever path that you yourself follow it is likely you will bring your kids up that way and there'll always be criticism from one side or the other.

Yes. You got the idea too.

[rk3388]

Atheism does not deserve respect. Probably my biggest gripe against it is it targets children who are the most vulnerable members of society. It deserves to be mocked.

^THIS.
I do respect everyone and there beliefs as i hope they do to me
BUT i think atheism does not deserve respect.
I mean who are you to go up to people and tell them what they believe in isnt true.

[joeysteele]

Well I have never got this devil and hell thing if you are bad. According to the writings,the devil acts against God or a God, so what one earth would the devil,if it exists, want to punish people for being bad for.Why would a devil take any soul, spirit or whatever and in a place like hell punish it for all eternity for being bad and annoying to or disobeying God or a God.
I have never seen any even basic common sense to that argument.

[keithafc]

Have more respect for spiritualism than i do mainstream religions but thats just me.

[ElProximo]

Well I have never got this devil and hell thing if you are bad. According to the writings,the devil acts against God or a God, so what one earth would the devil,if it exists, want to punish people for being bad for.Why would a devil take any soul, spirit or whatever and in a place like hell punish it for all eternity for being bad and annoying to or disobeying God or a God.
I have never seen any even basic common sense to that argument.

You don't see the basic common sense in that?
The Devil hates God. God loves his children. The Devil wants to take God's children and torture them. To make God suffer. To hurt God. To steal from God.

I mean it seems to me that would make sense in it's own evil horrifying way.

[Stu]

^THIS.
I do respect everyone and there beliefs as i hope they do to me
BUT i think atheism does not deserve respect.
I mean who are you to go up to people and tell them what they believe in isnt true.
Not all atheists do that.

The ones that do are preaching in a similar fashion to the annoying Religiotards who do it all the time.

I see no difference. You are an absoloute hypocrite for respecting some beliefs but not others.

[Zippy]

BUT i think atheism does not deserve respect.
I mean who are you to go up to people and tell them what they believe in isnt true.

it's called opinion

wasn't even aware atheism was actually a religion. So I am religious after all?

damn

[ElProximo]

I see no difference. You are an absoloute hypocrite for respecting some beliefs but not others.

Well if your presumption was correct and there is no difference then YOU would be a hypocrite for having different level of respect.

Then again I don't think you practice what you preach. I suspect you have a lot of respect for someone who (going to guesstimate) someone who was raised in a strict fundamentalist Christian home but somewhere in University fell into Rastafarianism... but a kind of 'Agnosticism',
versus,
a hardcore Scientologist.
I am going to guess you have have a healthy level of respect for the former and you have little respect for the latter?

Anyways, I do have varying levels of respect for whatever belief systems and worldviews.
High on my list would be Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and then much lower would be Islam,
and,
then I have very little respect for Scientology, Mormonism,
but,
Way way at the bottom is the belief system that is nearly by 'definition' the stupidest most illogical unreasonable belief system on the planet and that is Atheism.
Naturalistic Atheism. I mean this is a belief based on what could actually be a 'childrens first lesson' on illogical statements:
From Nothing came Something.

I mean seriously, if you had to stay up all night inventing the 'stupidest thing ever said' and hired professional writers and philosophers you would eventually come up with:
Something came from Nothing.

The Dictionary could use Atheism as an example near 'Stupid'. It is such a stupid belief system it makes Scientology slightly credible. That is amazing.

So yes I do have various degrees of respect but that is speaking to the belief system. Not the person themselves.
It is true that most Atheists are shltheads, bitter apples and dicks,
but,
I'm also aware that many of them are just scared or willfully ignorant or just naive enough like we all are. In a very human way.
For them, 'naturalistic evolutionism' is a comforting 'fairie tale for adults' that they need to help them get through life. A 'crutch' if you will. or a 'blinder' helping them avoid facing the scary.. actually terrifying idea of an afterlife and more specifically a 'Maker' whom they might just need to answer to.
I can respect that person. Also they may be quite good at many other things.

[joeysteele]

You don't see the basic common sense in that?
The Devil hates God. God loves his children. The Devil wants to take God's children and torture them. To make God suffer. To hurt God. To steal from God.

I mean it seems to me that would make sense in it's own evil horrifying way.

I have to admit, I've never thought of it that way.That would make more sense.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You are really asking this question?

Parents do not believe there is a monster under the bed and that is why they don't tell children as much.

Parents do believe there is a prison for criminals and they most certainly do tell their children there are police, a prison and they ought to avoid committing crimes.

Parents do believe there is a 'prison' and bad warden for some 'criminals' in the afterlife,
but,
with rare exceptions they don't discuss this with children until they are nearing adults (or old enough to deal with it),
and,
very very few Churches discuss hell other than in in the context of how Jesus makes it unnecessary.

What I did here was mirror your thinking which would go something like this:

It is a kind of 'abuse' to children to never warn them there is consequences to bad behavior. That there is a devil. See I presume that. So since the Devil does exist then it is right and correct and proper I should act accordingly.

and given that the Devil does exist then you are immoral and 'abusive' to children not telling them.
Actually you 'foist' your fake belief on them. Which is really sick.

Can you try and make that clearer as it does not make sense?

[Niamh.]

Exactly. That is what I was getting at.

ah ok, I see what you were saying now, that's a fair point.

[Stu]

Well if your presumption was correct and there is no difference then YOU would be a hypocrite for having different level of respect.
Not at all. I'm the one who has been giving the argument that no belief system is obligated respect - therefore it is up to me to choose what to respect.

rk3388 said on the other hand, and I quote, 'I do respect everyone and their beliefs' but then goes on to say Atheism he has no respect for.

So yeah. I won't even bother trying to tackle the rest Sailor Boy. You're far, far from the grasp of reality and I wouldn't ever bother trying to reason with you.

[BB_Eye]

Well if your presumption was correct and there is no difference then YOU would be a hypocrite for having different level of respect.

Then again I don't think you practice what you preach. I suspect you have a lot of respect for someone who (going to guesstimate) someone who was raised in a strict fundamentalist Christian home but somewhere in University fell into Rastafarianism... but a kind of 'Agnosticism',
versus,
a hardcore Scientologist.
I am going to guess you have have a healthy level of respect for the former and you have little respect for the latter?

Anyways, I do have varying levels of respect for whatever belief systems and worldviews.
High on my list would be Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, and then much lower would be Islam,
and,
then I have very little respect for Scientology, Mormonism,
but,
Way way at the bottom is the belief system that is nearly by 'definition' the stupidest most illogical unreasonable belief system on the planet and that is Atheism.
Naturalistic Atheism. I mean this is a belief based on what could actually be a 'childrens first lesson' on illogical statements:
From Nothing came Something.Spoken like a theologian. Have you never stopped to consider these two things? That since mass and energy can only be converted into energy and vice versa, that the beginning of the universe was completely spontaneous and that this fundamental physical property of all matter and energy mean that no causal relationship between matter and a non-corporeal deity is even possible? Also since time is finite (and not even completely linear as we've discovered in the past century), the Big Bang wasn't an event that occured somewhere along some abstract timeline of infinity, but in fact was the beginning full stop? It's emininently logical

I mean seriously, if you had to stay up all night inventing the 'stupidest thing ever said' and hired professional writers and philosophers you would eventually come up with:
Something came from Nothing.

The Dictionary could use Atheism as an example near 'Stupid'. It is such a stupid belief system it makes Scientology slightly credible. That is amazing.

So yes I do have various degrees of respect but that is speaking to the belief system. Not the person themselves.
It is true that most Atheists are shltheads, bitter apples and dicks,
but,
I'm also aware that many of them are just scared or willfully ignorant or just naive enough like we all are. In a very human way.
For them, 'naturalistic evolutionism' is a comforting 'fairie tale for adults' that they need to help them get through life. A 'crutch' if you will. or a 'blinder' helping them avoid facing the scary.. actually terrifying idea of an afterlife and more specifically a 'Maker' whom they might just need to answer to.
I can respect that person. Also they may be quite good at many other things.What is this born-again protestant fixation with trying to discredit the natural sciences? Even Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians know better and have done for a long time. Not even Augustine and the earlier Church fathers took the Creation story literally and we are talking about a man who ushered in the dark ages. I'm glad you say you respect such people (after insisting over 9000 times that you didn't, but then consistency is not really your strong point), otherwise there wouldn't be many people left to respect.

[arista]

Religion does not deserve respect. Probably my biggest gripe against it is it targets children who are the most vulnerable members of society. It deserves to be mocked.


Bang On Right.

[Judas]

Of course it does, it is plan disrespectfull to openly disrespect someones belief system or culture. Anyone who tries to justify otherwise is wrong.

[Stu]

Of course it does, it is plan disrespectfull to openly disrespect someones belief system or culture. Anyone who tries to justify otherwise is wrong.
Does that extend to those glorious cultures and belief systems that include hanging homosexuals and stoning women to death?

[Lee.]

Live and let live, that's what I say.

I have no religion myself, but if people feel better within themselves by attending church or paraying to a god or whatever, then so be it :)

[Livia]

I respect people who deserve respect, regardless of their religion. What religion people follow is probably the last question I would think to ask anyone.

[Judas]

Does that extend to those glorious cultures and belief systems that include hanging homosexuals and stoning women to death?

This is a tricky issue but obviously a very important one, and when reading what I respond you have to take into account we are both from westernised backgrounds.

The religion still needs respecting; but the extremist practises do not. I feel we must respect all religions - but not neccesarily the practises that have grown alongside it and the culture. Maybe I should of said all beliefs need respecting - and within your belief you must have some kind of respect for others and their welfare.

Again I understand religion isn't exactally known for being inclusive - I just feel they must continue to adapt to the world we live in, and it's too simple to simply slam all religons as institutions full of hate and homophobia.

[Stu]

This is a tricky issue but obviously a very important one, and when reading what I respond you have to take into account we are both from westernised backgrounds.

The religion still needs respecting; but the extremist practises do not. I feel we must respect all religions - but not neccesarily the practises that have grown alongside it and the culture. Maybe I should of said all beliefs need respecting - and within your belief you must have some kind of respect for others and their welfare.

Again I understand religion isn't exactally known for being inclusive - I just feel they must continue to adapt to the world we live in, and it's too simple to simply slam all religons as institutions full of hate and homophobia.
I'm not slamming all religions as institutions full of hate and homophobia but you cannot just cherry pick which bits are the religion and which bits are the laws and acts you don't like which as a sudden concequence you see fit to seperate from the religion.

Some people are influenced by the message of Jesus to help others. I respect that. Some people are influenced by the message of the Koran to stone adulteresses to death. I don't respect that. It all comes from belief however.

It's not extremist in those countries. They have laws for it. It's seen as fairly normal. Those laws are directly based on their interpretation of the Koran. You can't simply allow for exceptions in the 'respect others beliefs' argument just because it's reached the point where you don't like something.

We all pick and choose what to respect even if we say otherwise and that's absoloutely fine. We are, apparently, highly evolved, cognitive creatures capable of making rational judgement after all.

The idea that something deserves automatic respect just because it is a religious belief is quite frankly absurd. Nothing seperates Christian missionaries, Rastafari ganja smokers, and Buddhist meditators from suicide bombers and beheaders of Western journalists as far as beliefs go. They each have a belief that they call their own and believe in. They all qualify for being religious beliefs.

They don't all qualify for my respect.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The problem with religion in the UK is the fact that it has invaded schools and curriculum's as well as politics.

You cannot live and let live when the above scandal is in operation.

[BB_Eye]

The problem with religion in the UK is the fact that it has invaded schools and curriculum's as well as politics.

You cannot live and let live when the above scandal is in operation.
Although the flipside to this austerity budget debacle is no more free bus passes for faith school children. :hugesmile:

[InOne]

Islam and culture often seem to merge together when it suits them. Sometimes they blame culture, sometimes their religion. Can never make their mind up

[ElProximo]

rk3388 said on the other hand, and I quote, 'I do respect everyone and their beliefs' but then goes on to say Atheism he has no respect for.


Right. He seemed to think it wasn't a belief system. Otherwise, it remains that you would be a hypocrite IF you did expect 'equal respect'.

Can you try and make that clearer as it does not make sense?

Keep working on it yourself.

Not even Augustine and the earlier Church fathers took the Creation story literally and we are talking about a man who ushered in the dark ages.

Yes they did and there were no 'dark ages' ushered in by anyone.

[joeysteele]

I respect people who deserve respect, regardless of their religion. What religion people follow is probably the last question I would think to ask anyone.

I 100% agree with this.