Should Private Schools exist?

[Beastie]

Should Private Schools exist?

Or do you think every school should be the same? Free public schools for everyone!

If all the private schools and public schools were interlinked.. I bet public schools would perform better.

Like usually in Private schools there is only like 15 students per classroom. Where as in public schools there is about 30 to a classroom. If all the schools interlinked I bet the classes can spread out more and there would be like about 23 students to a class.

I think everyone deserves the same standard of education. There should always be a teacher and always be a teacher's assistant to give extra help for some students in the same class. I mean there can always be sets like there is now for Maths.. English.. etc.

Also every school should have a special needs department. For those who are obviously more clever than going to a special school but who just need some extra encouragement and help.

Therefore.. I think private schools should be scrapped. If the rich want to spend more on education then they could spend £20 or whatever an hour on extra French, singing, classical or whatever subjects they want their sprogs to do well in or learn.

I think Public schools are the same as Private schools. There are just less pupils in a private school classroom. They work like an hour extra a day usually but get longer holidays.

Anyway I think Private schools and public schools should be interlinked. All schools should be made better. There are good public schools but joining both forces together I think there will be a lot less "not so good" schools.

What do you think?

[Grimnir]

i dont believe in privatisation of anything

schools should be run by the people

[Niall]

No. It just encourages a class based society where the rich get the better things in life whilst the poor are saddled with the worst. Its wrong. Everyone should get the same education for free.

[Pyramid*]

Yes. Private schools should exist.


Private education tends to lend itself to a more disciplined, more responsible type of student in the main. When parents are forking out their hard earned cash: you tend to find that the students take 'learning' far more seriously.

State schools should of course exist - and in my opinion, that is absolutely without question. They should however be of a such a standard that they meet a higher criteria than many (not all, not by a long shot), currently do. Regrettably: due to the number of pupils required in each class in comparison to private schooling/class numbers etc: it is totally understandable that teachers (and the public sector schooling system) can and does fail. Is that their fault? Not entirely. As I say: when parents feel the cost of education straight from their pockets: you can be sure that they (the parents), the children and the tutors/teachers/ financial laid out - in comparions to State schooling for which those schools have little or no control over - all take education far more seriously - overall.

I can speak from experience of both: and I have to say, for many years I was taught within the Scottish educational system - and it was pretty disciplined. If anything, it was on par with the subsequent private education I was priviledged enough to experience in later years.

Unfortunately: it appears that the rules from 30 years ago in State Schools now, Scottish or otherwise, have gone down the drain.

In respect of 'people shouldn't have to pay'. Well, if I was a parent: I would prefer my money to be used towards privately educating my child: than using that money to be 'squandered' on giving them the gadgetry that tends to be used for social reasons, in having to clothe them in the latest 'must have designer' gear etc....

[MTVN]

No. It just encourages a class based society where the rich get the better things in life whilst the poor are saddled with the worst. Its wrong. Everyone should get the same education for free.

This, private schools just prove how big an advantage you get in life just from being lucky enough to have rich parents, it ensures a life of privilege, it means that social immobility is built into the system & it has an adverse effect on the quality of state run schools.

[Pyramid*]

This, private schools just prove how big an advantage you get in life just from being lucky enough to have rich parents, it ensures a life of privilege, it means that social immobility is built into the system & it has an adverse effect on the quality of state run schools.

More than one person has used the words 'rich parent's or 'rich'.

You do all realise that many very working class parents, slog their guts out and use their salaries to finance such private education to give their children the very best start in life? Many working class parents work incrediby long hard hours to do this: preferring the money to be used to benefit their child's / childrens education and long term prospects - rather than fritter the money on every day materialistic whims demanded by their offsping? (ie; designer clothing, the latest 'must have' gadgets, long haul tropical holiday abroad, parents sacrificing their own wants of bigger and more expensive houses, cars etc: to allow them to use the monies for their children - to give them the very best fundamental start to life.).

It appear some on here are blind to these very facts.

[MTVN]

More than one person has used the words 'rich parent's or 'rich'.

You do all realise that many very working class parents, slog their guts out and use their salaries to finance such private education to give their children the very best start in life? Many working class parents work incrediby long hard hours to do this: preferring the money to be used to benefit their child's / childrens education and long term prospects - rather than fritter the money on every day materialistic whims demanded by their offsping? (ie; designer clothing, the latest 'must have' gadgets, long haul tropical holiday abroad, parents sacrificing their own wants of bigger and more expensive houses, cars etc: to allow them to use the monies for their children - to give them the very best fundamental start to life.).

It appear some on here are blind to these very facts.

Well it'd be interesting to see some facts regarding the demographic of private schools but I'm fairly certain that those working class children who do go to private schools are very much in a tiny minority. Especially considering fees are constantly rising, I think it costs over £10,000 a year on average for private schools, you're mad if you think that most working class families could afford that though making a couple of small, materialistic sacrifices

[Niall]

More than one person has used the words 'rich parent's or 'rich'.

You do all realise that many very working class parents, slog their guts out and use their salaries to finance such private education to give their children the very best start in life? Many working class parents work incrediby long hard hours to do this: preferring the money to be used to benefit their child's / childrens education and long term prospects - rather than fritter the money on every day materialistic whims demanded by their offsping? (ie; designer clothing, the latest 'must have' gadgets, long haul tropical holiday abroad, parents sacrificing their own wants of bigger and more expensive houses, cars etc: to allow them to use the monies for their children - to give them the very best fundamental start to life.).

It appear some on here are blind to these very facts.

But thats probably the minority of people not the majority. The majority of those at private schools are those that are used to having an easy life where money is no issue. They're probably used to having everything at their beck and call not to mention being spoiled rotten.

Futhermore, their private education and their parent's wealth will probably allow the kid to access a high paying job easily and with little effort, getting the kid into the top class of society easily. It just goes on and on. Nearly all the top politicians had private schooling for example - David Cameron went to Eton for Christ sake.

I just think its wrong to willingly allow those with the cash to give their children an educational advantage whilst others are unable to gain the same thing. Its wrong and unfair and (like I said before) encourages a class based society.

[Chuck]

Obviously they should exist, what a stupid thread :bored:

I've studied in private schools my whole life and I wouldnt want my children to study in public schools. :nono:

[Pyramid*]

Well it'd be interesting to see some facts regarding the demographic of private schools but I'm fairly certain that those working class children who do go to private schools are very much in a tiny minority. Especially considering fees are constantly rising, I think it costs over £10,000 a year on average for private schools, you're mad if you think that most working class families could afford that though making a couple of small, materialistic sacrifices


Point me out to where I said, "Most working class families could afford...." and I'll address the rest of your points.

[Niall]

Obviously they should exist, what a stupid thread :bored:

I've studied in private schools my whole life and I wouldnt want my children to study in public schools. :nono:

No offence Chuck but you're obviously gonna see this differently to the rest of us. Brazil is still a developing country so public schools where you are aren't gonna be at the same standard as public schools where we are. :tongue:

[MTVN]

Point me out to where I said, "Most working class families could afford...." and I'll address the rest of your points.

I dont see why you're so indignant that I paraphrased and didnt quote you directly but you said "very many working class parents..." many working class parents": "Many" is generally considered to be the majority or at least a large number.

[Chuck]

No offence Chuck but you're obviously gonna see this differently to the rest of us. Brazil is still a developing country so public schools where you are aren't gonna be at the same standard as public schools where we are. :tongue:

:joker: It's ok.

[Pyramid*]

But thats probably the minority of people not the majority. The majority of those at private schools are those that are used to having an easy life where money is no issue. They're probably used to having everything at their beck and call not to mention being spoiled rotten.

Futhermore, their private education and their parent's wealth will probably allow the kid to access a high paying job easily and with little effort, getting the kid into the top class of society easily. It just goes on and on. Nearly all the top politicians had private schooling for example - David Cameron went to Eton for Christ sake.

I just think its wrong to willingly allow those with the cash to give their children an educational advantage whilst others are unable to gain the same thing. Its wrong and unfair and (like I said before) encourages a class based society.

BIB. I'd like you to back up your comments here.

I came from council house, working class territory - and still remain firmly working class.

My parents certainly did not have money to squander. I certainly was never spoilt. To the contrary -if I ever made any demands for anything, you can be quite sure that I never received. I can reply for myself, and let me assure you: if I did not work hard during my private education: I didn't just receive a bollocking from my parents...

you seem to have a rather small minded percetion with regards to private education: as shown by your David Cameron went to Eton for Christs sake comment.

I'd have expected many who attended such prestigious places as Eton etc: SHOULD be making a serious impact - in one way or another (suggests you check how many people who did benefit from such privileged education .... and see how successful they were... comedians, and policitians alike. That simply proves my point .... REGARDLESS of what profession they end up in: they have taken their education seriously - enough to have used their intelligence / wit / to the very best result in their adult life.)

[Pyramid*]

I dont see why you're so indignant that I paraphrased and didnt quote you directly but you said "very many working class parents..." many working class parents": "Many" is generally considered to be the majority or at least a large number.

You appear to be assuming that I am 'so indignant'. Please check back: you quoted my previous comment and replied. I responded to that.

therefore you were indeed responding to my comments, otherwise you would not have quoted my post. ;)

My post that you quoted:
More than one person has used the words 'rich parent's or 'rich'.

You do all realise that many very working class parents, slog their guts out and use their salaries to finance such private education to give their children the very best start in life? Many working class parents work incrediby long hard hours to do this: preferring the money to be used to benefit their child's / childrens education and long term prospects - rather than fritter the money on every day materialistic whims demanded by their offsping? (ie; designer clothing, the latest 'must have' gadgets, long haul tropical holiday abroad, parents sacrificing their own wants of bigger and more expensive houses, cars etc: to allow them to use the monies for their children - to give them the very best fundamental start to life.).

It appear some on here are blind to these very facts.


Your post - in reply - which quoted my post above


Well it'd be interesting to see some facts regarding the demographic of private schools but I'm fairly certain that those working class children who do go to private schools are very much in a tiny minority. Especially considering fees are constantly rising, I think it costs over £10,000 a year on average for private schools, you're mad if you think that most working class families could afford that though making a couple of small, materialistic sacrifices

[Chuck]

No. It just encourages a class based society where the rich get the better things in life whilst the poor are saddled with the worst. Its wrong. Everyone should get the same education for free.

The existence of private schools is just a mere consequence of a class based society.

[Vicky.]

I dont think so no.

Just makes the divide between poor and rich larger.

I dont see why having cash/your parents having cash should entitle you to a better life than say...someone who works 60 hours a week to keep food on the table. This goes for private doctors/dentists etc too.

[Pyramid*]

No offence Chuck but you're obviously gonna see this differently to the rest of us. Brazil is still a developing country so public schools where you are aren't gonna be at the same standard as public schools where we are. :tongue:


How utterly patronising. Unless you have quite specific and detailed knowledge of the educational system in Brazil, or have a specialised interest and higher knowlege than Chuck Pass themselves.... I have to honestly ask why you would be stating something as factual.

What evidence do you have that public schools in Brazil aren't 'gonna' be the same standard as public schools where 'we' are?

Do you have personal experience to validate and back up your personal knowledge?

If not: I would say that Chuck Pass has every right to offer their opinon on this subject without being told "You are going to see things differently".

[MTVN]

You appear to be assuming that I am 'so indignant'. Please check back: you quoted my previous comment and replied. I responded to that.

therefore you were indeed responding to my comments, otherwise you would not have quoted my post. ;)

My post that you quoted:


Your post - in reply - which quoted my post above

Huh, what's the relevance of this? I know I was responding to your comments, I'm not an idiot, but that doesn't mean I've commited some kind of offence against your person because I used the word "most" instead of "many" in regards to your post when the two are virtually synonyms.

[Pyramid*]

The existence of private schools is just a mere consequence of a class based society.


I think it's less to do with a class based society.

Evidently, those considered middle /upper class will have more finances at their disposal to afford private education. That is and always will be the case.

That does not detract from the fact that there are far higher numbers of working class individuals, working class families within the UK, that are prepared to pay for private education - than was evident in the past.

[Pyramid*]

Huh, what's the relevance of this? I know I was responding to your comments, I'm not an idiot, but that doesn't mean I've commited some kind of offence against your person because I used the word "most" instead of "many" in regards to your post when the two are virtually synonyms.

I am quite sure that members on the forum are perfectly capable of determining the meaning of the word 'many or most'. To use your post (previous and above) to assume that those involved or reading this thread, would not be able to establish what the word 'many or most' meant - I feel is condescending and somewhat patronising.

It appears that there seems to be many assumptions on your part, that is only my opinion, that is all I am saying.

[Chuck]

I think it's less to do with a class based society.

Evidently, those considered middle /upper class will have more finances at their disposal to afford private education. That is and always will be the case.
That does not detract from the fact that there are far higher numbers of working class individuals, working class families within the UK, that are prepared to pay for private education - than was evident in the past.

And I dont have a problem with that, I dont see why children whose parents have enough money to afford private education should send their children to a public school.
People who have more money are always going to be able to afford better things and thats perfectly fine by me.

[MTVN]

I am quite sure that members on the forum are perfectly capable of determining the meaning of the word 'many or most'. To use your post (previous and above) to assume that those involved or reading this thread, would not be able to establish what the word 'many or most' meant - I feel is condescending and somewhat patronising.

It appears that there seems to be many assumptions on your part, that is only my opinion, that is all I am saying.

I really don't see what you're trying to do here, you seemed to have a problem that something I said in my post wasnt a direct quote from you so I replyed to clarify myself, and now you're dragging this out into a ridiculous argument where you're attacking me for my semantics for no apparent reason. And there you go on the defensive again saying I'm being patronising :rolleyes:

[seanraff07]

No I don't think they should exist.

Most people that attend Private schools are posh, stuck-up twats who need to be dragged down a level, to reality. Anyone who isn't to their rich standards they treat/talk to like a piece of dirt.

I'd much rather attend a public school anyway cause despite some of the idiots that attend it, you'll meet much nicer people.

[Pyramid*]

And I dont have a problem with that, I dont see why children whose parents have enough money to afford private education should send their children to a public school.
People who have more money are always going to be able to afford better things and thats perfectly fine by me.

I agree. My point was more that Niall seemed to be offering views on an eduational system in a country which I believe they have no personal experience upon which to base their comments, in respect of the schooling standard - state or otherwise - in Brazil. (and I say, 'seemed', as I cannot answer for Niall)

I really don't see what you're trying to do here, you seemed to have a problem that something I said in my post wasnt a direct quote from you so I replyed to clarify myself, and now you're dragging this out into a ridiculous argument where you're attacking me for my semantics for no apparent reason. And there you go on the defensive again saying I'm being patronising :rolleyes:


No, I'm merely stating that you appear to finding moot points upon which you base your point of view. Nothing more, nothing less. Less that I am being defensive (so no need for your rolling eyes smilley...patronising much ;) ) - but more that I am pointing out the moot points upon which you raise as a point of debate.

[Pyramid*]

No I don't think they should exist.

Most people that attend Private schools are posh, stuck-up twats who need to be dragged down a level, to reality. Anyone who isn't to their rich standards they treat/talk to like a piece of dirt.

I'd much rather attend a public school anyway cause despite some of the idiots that attend it, you'll meet much nicer people.

Personally... I'd prefer less idiots ... but there you go, that's a personal opinion.

As for your comment on stuck up twats who need to be dragged down to a level... to reality. Good god, talk about having a prejudiced viewpoint !!

[Vicky.]

And I dont have a problem with that, I dont see why children whose parents have enough money to afford private education should send their children to a public school.
People who have more money are always going to be able to afford better things and thats perfectly fine by me.

I do, not everything in life should be about money.

And if private schools didnt exist, they would have to make public schools better to please the people who would have been paying for better education. So public schools would be up to the same standard of private schools.

Everyone wins.

[seanraff07]

Personally... I'd prefer less idiots ... but there you go, that's a personal opinion.

As for your comment on stuck up twats who need to be dragged down to a level... to reality. Good god, talk about having a prejudiced viewpoint !!

Yes as would I, but that's reality for you, you have to deal with it.

You'll notice that I said MOST people that attend Private Schools, not all people. I used to be close with a girl from a Private School and although she was very nice, all her pals were stuck-up, ignorant bitches. And that is not a biased opinion that is totally honest.

[Pyramid*]

Yes as would I, but that's reality for you, you have to deal with it.

You'll notice that I said MOST people that attend Private Schools, not all people. I used to be close with a girl from a Private School and although she was very nice, all her pals were stuck-up, ignorant bitches. And that is not a biased opinion that is totally honest.

How many people have you interracted with, that attended Private Schools, in comparion to those who attended State funded schools? The reason I ask is that it is pertinent.

It would seem that for you to offer your overall opinion, "MOST people that attend Private Schools".... that you would have to have known a high number of such persons who have been educated privately - upon which for you to base your 'unbiased' opinion. From your post above: it does appear that you have formed an opinion on the MANY who attend private schools, based on you knowning one person who attended a private school.

Rather than, what appears to be (from your post above), your experience that may be based on you knowing'A girl from a Private School' - ie one person?

Being able to quantify, would be helpful in ascertaining whether you are able to, fairly and without bias, offer an unpredujiced opinion.

[seanraff07]

How many people have you interracted with, that attended Private Schools, in comparion to those who attended State funded schools? The reason I ask is that it is pertinent.

It would seem that for you to offer your overall opinion, "MOST people that attend Private Schools".... that you would have to have known a high number of such persons who have been educated privately - upon which for you to base your 'unbiased' opinion. From your post above: it does appear that you have formed an opinion on the MANY who attend private schools, based on you knowning one person who attended a private school.

Rather than, what appears to be (from your post above), your experience that may be based on you knowing'A girl from a Private School' - ie one person?

Being able to quantify, would be helpful in ascertaining whether you are able to, fairly and without bias, offer an unpredujiced opinion.

I got to know her mates, hence why I brought them up. I have been to parties and met people from Private schools, most of whom I didn't warm to.

Yes there is a reason why I can't give many examples of people from Private schools... I hardly talk to any, cause the majority I have came across are selfish twats. And that is more than the 1 or 2 that you are suggesting I talk to.

[dizzy bint]

I spent the first 10 years of my life in a Council house with no bathroom, an outside toilet and no running hot water.

Then I spent from age 13 to age 16 at a fee paying all girl's boarding school.

There was no large jump in my parent's class in between, we were still working class. Many children go to private school when their parents go abroad to work or, in some cases, when they're in the armed forces.

I did not enjoy my time at private school and didn't send my children to one. However, I wouldn't advocate getting rid of them, people should have freedom of choice. All I would say is that they are, in my opinion, wasting their money.

[Pyramid*]

I got to know her mates, hence why I brought them up. I have been to parties and met people from Private schools, most of whom I didn't warm to.

Yes there is a reason why I can't give many examples of people from Private schools... I hardly talk to any, cause the majority I have came across are selfish twats. And that is more than the 1 or 2 that you are suggesting I talk to.

I'm afraid that not being able to give many examples, based on you knowing one girl and her friends (who let's be fair here: a person will associate with those with whom they have common boundaries etc: thus: if you found 'that girl' to be a twat - it's pretty reasonable that you would have found 'her friends' to be of the same ilk -given that we all tend to bond with those around us, that we share common ground with).

Given that you admit that 'you hardly talk to any'... I really have to take the view that your limited interaction with (through your own personal choice or not) - with what appears to be a handful of people - rather than 'many / most' - really is not indicative of an overall perception - and leads to you having a very skewed and biases opinion.

It appears that you are offering an opinion on 'most/many' people who have been privately educated: based on your interracting with only a few privately educated people. It does seem a rather unbalanced way of offering an unbiased opinion. :conf:

[Pyramid*]

I spent the first 10 years of my life in a Council house with no bathroom, an outside toilet and no running hot water.

Then I spent from age 13 to age 16 at a fee paying all girl's boarding school.

There was no large jump in my parent's class in between, we were still working class. Many children go to private school when their parents go abroad to work or, in some cases, when they're in the armed forces.

I did not enjoy my time at private school and didn't send my children to one. However, I wouldn't advocate getting rid of them, people should have freedom of choice. All I would say is that they are, in my opinion, wasting their money.


Something you touched upon in your post. I also happened to attend an armed forces school abroad - and I loathed it, and the pupils there - who looked down on me.

I then attended private schooling, both abroad and back in the UK - and found a complete turn around from the students at the Army schools - they were far more welcoming than those children parents in the Armed Forces -both in school and out of.

[dizzy bint]

Something you touched upon in your post. I also happened to attend an armed forces school abroad - and I loathed it, and the pupils there - who looked down on me.

I then attended private schooling, both abroad and back in the UK - and found a complete turn around from the students at the Army schools - they were far more welcoming than those children parents in the Armed Forces -both in school and out of.

Interesting. I don't have any personal experience of armed forces schools although the son of a friend attends one in this country and is very happy there.

I attended boarding schools both abroad and here and hated both occasions. The one abroad I hated the actual schooling, I was streamed far above my actual ability and my days were miserable, fortunately I wasn't there long. The one here was again a case of the other pupils looking down on me. I have to say though that I suffered a lot of bullying throughout my school life and had also hated the state schools I had attended. My sister loved boarding school and was evidence that a working class child can fit in as well as any other.

I think like every other school, with private schools it depends on the child and it depends on the school. Every experience is different.

[Pyramid*]

Interesting. I don't have any personal experience of armed forces schools although the son of a friend attends one in this country and is very happy there.

I attended boarding schools both abroad and here and hated both occasions. The one abroad I hated the actual schooling, I was streamed far above my actual ability and my days were miserable, fortunately I wasn't there long. The one here was again a case of the other pupils looking down on me. I have to say though that I suffered a lot of bullying throughout my school life and had also hated the state schools I had attended. My sister loved boarding school and was evidence that a working class child can fit in as well as any other.

I think like every other school, with private schools it depends on the child and it depends on the school. Every experience is different.

Have to agree with BIB. totally.

Army school in Cyprus for me, I went to private day school in Saudi , boarding school in England. With exception of Cyprus, I loved it and the experience.

As I say, I came from very serious working class background (and I mean serious as in, electricity being cut off coz of not being able to pay the bliddy bill etc !!!!! Thank god for coal fires - and I'm not kidding!) :joker:

[Niall]

BIB. I'd like you to back up your comments here.

I came from council house, working class territory - and still remain firmly working class.

My parents certainly did not have money to squander. I certainly was never spoilt. To the contrary -if I ever made any demands for anything, you can be quite sure that I never received. I can reply for myself, and let me assure you: if I did not work hard during my private education: I didn't just receive a bollocking from my parents...

you seem to have a rather small minded percetion with regards to private education: as shown by your David Cameron went to Eton for Christs sake comment.

I'd have expected many who attended such prestigious places as Eton etc: SHOULD be making a serious impact - in one way or another (suggests you check how many people who did benefit from such privileged education .... and see how successful they were... comedians, and policitians alike. That simply proves my point .... REGARDLESS of what profession they end up in: they have taken their education seriously - enough to have used their intelligence / wit / to the very best result in their adult life.)

You didn't listen to me. I said the majority. I didn't say you got into a private school that way, were spoilt etc. I said the majority of kids at private schools probably come from a wealthy background. No where in my post did I insinuate that you did.

And yes I am against private schooling. Like I said it encourages a class based society where the rich are privileged and remain so and the poor remain less privileged. I don't like the idea that you can buy your way into a better education (which can lead to a drastically better life) and be above everyone else. I don't think thats right. Everyone should be given a level playing field in terms of schooling imo.

[Niall]

The existence of private schools is just a mere consequence of a class based society.

But it also encourages and helps to sustain it. Thats the way I see it anyways.

[Conor]

The school system should exist to reward people who have the brains, not the money.

[Vicky.]

The school system should exist to reward people who have the brains, not the money.

Exactly. Very well put

[Niall]

The school system should exist to reward people who have the brains, not the money.

:worship: I couldn't have put it better myself.

[Pyramid*]

You didn't listen to me. I said the majority. I didn't say you got into a private school that way, were spoilt etc. I said the majority of kids at private schools probably come from a wealthy background. No where in my post did I insinuate that you did.

And yes I am against private schooling. Like I said it encourages a class based society where the rich are privileged and remain so and the poor remain less privileged. I don't like the idea that you can buy your way into a better education (which can lead to a drastically better life) and be above everyone else. I don't think thats right. Everyone should be given a level playing field in terms of schooling imo.

I did read exactly what you wrote Niall, and I asked you to do nothing more than to back up your comment.

I did not say that you were referring to me personally, and neither did say that you insinuated this either. I am perplexed at to why you should jump to such a conclusion?:conf: What I did do however, was provide details of my own personal experience. There are at least 2 other persons on this thread who have encountered private schooling - and from what I can glean from their comments (and pro rata for those on tibbs who are taking part in this thread), who HAVE had experience from both sides of the fence: and are able to offer a more balance viewpoint.

Sometimes it's very easy to offer opinions when they are based less on personal experiences: and more on 'perception' , and to use such opinions as fact - denying all existence of those posters who are in a position of put up views on a very personal basis, and those who have personal experience of having benefitted from both types of schooling and may be in pole position to offer views -having actually experienced the two differing types and what they offer.

Their opinon may not be agreeable, it may not be right: but it is may be seen as a far more validatory an opinion than those who have experience of only one type of educational system and therefore, have nothing upon which to offer real life comparison. That fact has to be taken into consideration.

[Pyramid*]

The school system should exist to reward people who have the brains, not the money.


It does. It's called sponsorship to prestigious schools.

[Niall]

I did read exactly what you wrote Niall, and I asked you to do nothing more than to back up your comment.

I did not say that you were referring to me personally, and neither did say that you insinuated this either. I am perplexed at to why you should jump to such a conclusion?:conf: What I did do however, was provide details of my own personal experience. There are at least 2 other persons on this thread who have encountered private schooling - and from what I can glean from their comments (and pro rata for those on tibbs who are taking part in this thread), who HAVE had experience from both sides of the fence: and are able to offer a more balance viewpoint.

Sometimes it's very easy to offer opinions when they are based less on personal experiences: and more on 'perception' , and to use such opinions as fact - denying all existence of those posters who are in a position of put up views on a very personal basis, and those who have personal experience of having benefitted from both types of schooling and may be in pole position to offer views -having actually experienced the two differing types and what they offer.

Their opinon may not be agreeable, it may not be right: but it is may be seen as a far more validatory an opinion than those who have experience of only one type of educational system and therefore, have nothing upon which to offer real life comparison. That fact has to be taken into consideration.

The only reason I thought that was because you seemed to take what I said very personally. I know your family may have had to work to put you through private schooling but I wasn't referring to that in my previous post, I was talking about the wealthy families that pay for their children's schooling. Thats why I was I tried to make the distinction that I wasn't talking about the working class families that work to pay for their child's education like your own family. :)

Fair enough at the rest of what you've said I just don't agree with the idea. I think its elitist and wrong and I'm not gonna change my mind on that matter. :joker:

[dizzy bint]

Have to agree with BIB. totally.

Army school in Cyprus for me, I went to private day school in Saudi , boarding school in England. With exception of Cyprus, I loved it and the experience.

As I say, I came from very serious working class background (and I mean serious as in, electricity being cut off coz of not being able to pay the bliddy bill etc !!!!! Thank god for coal fires - and I'm not kidding!) :joker:

:joker: I know you're not, we had one too! A tin bath in front of the fire on a Sunday night, water being heated in a big 'copper'. I tell my kids, they don't believe me.

It sounds like you had a very interesting childhood with periods spent abroad just like I did. My Dad was trying to get a better life for us, unfortunately it failed several times but I can't fault him for trying.

[Pyramid*]

The only reason I thought that was because you seemed to take what I said very personally. I know your family may have had to work to put you through private schooling but I wasn't referring to that in my previous post, I was talking about the wealthy families that pay for their children's schooling. Thats why I was I tried to make the distinction that I wasn't talking about the working class families that work to pay for their child's education like your own family. :)

Fair enough at the rest of what you've said I just don't agree with the idea. I think its elitist and wrong and I'm not gonna change my mind on that matter. :joker:

and like yourself, I am also attempting to dispel the myth that it is only the 'rich' that chose to use private educational facilities.

Another offshoot of this discussion regardind 'private / ie; privately funded' education - further ed, college and Uni - they are in great part, privately funded by the individul to a great extent.

As example: I chose to work full time from the age of 18. I also wanted to continue my eduction in differing topics that interested me - and subsequently, I paid to attend night school for college to obtain HND, and then continued to pay through OU studies for psychology degree.

should this also be looked down on, and frowned upon, because I chose to continue paying for my further education? (slightly offshooting I know, and if it may derail thread - I'll understand if there's no response to this: as it does digress)

[arista]

"Should Private Schools exist?

Or do you think every school should be the same? Free public schools for everyone!"


You need to move to China or Russia.

What a Crazy thread.

Whatever Next
Ban Boxing?

[Ammi]

I didn't personally send my children to private school because I didn't see the need, however I have no problem with them existing. What people choose to spend the money they have earned on is entirely up to them. A sofa, holiday, whatever, why not their child's education. If they feel it will make a difference thats up to them. Whether it actually will, well they can find out. I can't see its any different to anything else that can be bought, we have private healthcare so why not education. It may be nice to think that if it didn't exist the state school system would improve but who's to say it would. It may be worse because it would have to support a lot more children that are privately schooled, the same way as the national health system would have to support more people if they didn't choose private health care. Everything in life is only available to whoever can afford it no matter how cheap or expensive it is. Children can go to state school but their parents can't afford for them to go on any trips etc. Unfortunately its part of life. Its not about toffs in a lot of cases parents go without stuff themselves because it is their highest priority. Why should we dictate to them how to spend their money. Whether their children benefit or not, well thats up to them

[Pyramid*]

:joker: I know you're not, we had one too! A tin bath in front of the fire on a Sunday night, water being heated in a big 'copper'. I tell my kids, they don't believe me.

It sounds like you had a very interesting childhood with periods spent abroad just like I did. My Dad was trying to get a better life for us, unfortunately it failed several times but I can't fault him for trying.

LOL... You've thrown me back to reminiscing days now!!! No wonder we had the leckie cut off.... gran used to light the coal fire - and in really bad winter days: used to put the cooker on - elec oven, leave the oven door open to try to warm us up - because 'one of us' would be in the living room, in front of the coal fire: having a bath in the steel tub.

Feck... I'm laughing like hell here now!!!!

toast from the fire was brill btw!:joker:

[Niall]

and like yourself, I am also attempting to dispel the myth that it is only the 'rich' that chose to use private educational facilities.

Another offshoot of this discussion regardind 'private / ie; privately funded' education - further ed, college and Uni - they are in great part, privately funded by the individul to a great extent.

As example: I chose to work full time from the age of 18. I also wanted to continue my eduction in differing topics that interested me - and subsequently, I paid to attend night school for college to obtain HND, and then continued to pay through OU studies for psychology degree.

should this also be looked down on, and frowned upon, because I chose to continue paying for my further education? (slightly offshooting I know, and if it may derail thread - I'll understand if there's no response to this: as it does digress)

Well my opinion on Uni is that I think they should be factored into the educational system and be made free of charge like all other schools (or if necessary given a small charge for things like books etc).

But imo I don't think they should those types of classes and education should be made to have fees. They should be free to attend. Or if thats not feasible, then maybe a small fee again to maintain books etc.

Thats what I think anyways. :tongue:

[Niall]

I also don't really think attending night classes is the same as private schooling because its you doing something that isn't initially offered to you as free if you know what I mean? I frown upon private schooling because its the active rejection of state schooling because you can afford private schooling (well in most cases anyways - I know it wasn't like that for you). :)

[Pyramid*]

Well my opinion on Uni is that I think they should be factored into the educational system and be made free of charge like all other schools (or if necessary given a small charge for things like books etc).

But imo I don't think they should those types of classes and education should be made to have fees. They should be free to attend. Or if thats not feasible, then maybe a small fee again to maintain books etc.

Thats what I think anyways. :tongue:

Move to Scotland and your wish may just be granted !!:tongue:

Mabye the Scottish Government think this too....;)

[Niall]

Move to Scotland and your wish may just be granted !!:tongue:

Mabye the Scottish Government think this too....;)

I could never move. I love where I live far too much. :love:

[Pyramid*]

I could never move. I love where I live far too much. :love:

Even at the expense of your education and possible future? That would indicate to me that you may possibly regard neither as a priority for you, either now, or in later life.

[Niall]

Even at the expense of your education and possible future? That would indicate to me that you may possibly regard neither as a priority for you, either now, or in later life.

Well maybe in future but now I'm quite happy to stay right where I am. :laugh:

[dizzy bint]

LOL... You've thrown me back to reminiscing days now!!! No wonder we had the leckie cut off.... gran used to light the coal fire - and in really bad winter days: used to put the cooker on - elec oven, leave the oven door open to try to warm us up - because 'one of us' would be in the living room, in front of the coal fire: having a bath in the steel tub.

Feck... I'm laughing like hell here now!!!!

toast from the fire was brill btw!:joker:

Awww happy days. We didn't feel deprived did we. In those days we could play out in the street and run down to the corner shop to buy Dad's baccy.

If you'd told me then that I was going to end up at an all girl's boarding school playing Lacrosse and eating chocolate out of a tuck box I would have look at you as if you were mad :joker:.

[Pyramid*]

Awww happy days. We didn't feel deprived did we. In those days we could play out in the street and run down to the corner shop to buy Dad's baccy.

If you'd told me then that I was going to end up at an all girl's boarding school playing Lacrosse and eating chocolate out of a tuck box I would have look at you as if you were mad :joker:.

PMSL..... Yep, me too!!!

aye, my parents tried the All Girls School palava..... cant recall the name of the place, was in Sevenoaks, and run by The Montagues (I remember my dad pronouncing their name incorrectly and the owner was 'most insulted' !!)... bloody place was full of parquet flooring, 'girls' had to wear clogs to avoid damaging the floor.

I'll give you one guess what my reaction to that was!!

Needless to say I ended up in a nice co-ed school ;)

[dizzy bint]

PMSL..... Yep, me too!!!

aye, my parents tried the All Girls School palava..... cant recall the name of the place, was in Sevenoaks, and run by The Montagues (I remember my dad pronouncing their name incorrectly and the owner was 'most insulted' !!)... bloody place was full of parquet flooring, 'girls' had to wear clogs to avoid damaging the floor.

I'll give you one guess what my reaction to that was!!

Needless to say I ended up in a nice co-ed school ;)

You were lucky :joker:.

I will say though that education wise there is something to be said for single sex, much less distraction. Pastorally there is little to be said for it, although i remember the occasional boy being chased off the school grounds that he'd been encouraged to come onto by some of the girls in the first place! :joker:

[lostalex]

In a free country you should have as many choices as possible. Private schools create more choices, therefore private schools are good. IMO.

[joeysteele]

Yes. Private schools should exist.


Private education tends to lend itself to a more disciplined, more responsible type of student in the main. When parents are forking out their hard earned cash: you tend to find that the students take 'learning' far more seriously.

State schools should of course exist - and in my opinion, that is absolutely without question. They should however be of a such a standard that they meet a higher criteria than many (not all, not by a long shot), currently do. Regrettably: due to the number of pupils required in each class in comparison to private schooling/class numbers etc: it is totally understandable that teachers (and the public sector schooling system) can and does fail. Is that their fault? Not entirely. As I say: when parents feel the cost of education straight from their pockets: you can be sure that they (the parents), the children and the tutors/teachers/ financial laid out - in comparions to State schooling for which those schools have little or no control over - all take education far more seriously - overall.

I can speak from experience of both: and I have to say, for many years I was taught within the Scottish educational system - and it was pretty disciplined. If anything, it was on par with the subsequent private education I was priviledged enough to experience in later years.

Unfortunately: it appears that the rules from 30 years ago in State Schools now, Scottish or otherwise, have gone down the drain.

In respect of 'people shouldn't have to pay'. Well, if I was a parent: I would prefer my money to be used towards privately educating my child: than using that money to be 'squandered' on giving them the gadgetry that tends to be used for social reasons, in having to clothe them in the latest 'must have designer' gear etc....

I agree, I have just noticed this thread but I would say yes,they should exist and I cannot really add any more to what Pyramid has said above except mine wasn't in Scotland though.

[Boothy]

I think they should exist.

If people have money and want to send their child to a private school, then they should be allowed. In the same way people who can afford private health care have the option of private healthcare.

It's their money.

[Z]

I went to a private school. I think it was 10% of my school was made up of pupils who were there on bursaries/scholarships. My mum started working again so that my parents could get the money together to be able to send me and my younger brother to that school. She gets up at 5am to go to work, my dad's up at 6am, they work long days and they go without a lot of things that they would love to have in order to pay for my brother and I's education. I don't think I am a stuck up person or that I'm any of the things that people have said in this thread about privately educated school pupils. I worked my ass off to get 5As in my Highers, I've just finished my second year of a university degree. Some of my friends have extremely wealthy parents, some of them do not. I'm not sure why there are so many stereotypes being listed in this thread, but it's kind of grating to read because people who act like that in real life are nowhere near as commonplace as is being implied in this thread. Sure, there are some idiots with money (or rather, people with money who have idiot kids) but that can't be helped - in my experience the overwhelming majority of pupils at my school were there to do well and get the best education because everyone else was there to work. Two people left my year of school at the end of 4th year, the minimum age for leaving school. Two. Private schools don't just exist so wealthy people can throw money at them (and I should also mention that, in case it's being forgotten, people who pay for private education still have to contribute to the public school system too, just like everybody else) - they exist so that people have a more stable learning environment. Beastie, my class sizes were closer to 30 than they were to 15, so I'm not sure where you got that figure from.

If anything, I've found that people who went to state schools are openly hostile towards me when they discover I went to a private school because of their stereotypical views, and not because of me. That is, they have this idea in their head of what a private school kid is like and then transfer that on top of my personality, and hate away on a system by making snide comments to me. I'm humble about it. My parents sacrificed a lot to put me there and I tried my absolute hardest to make them proud of me, and I did, what's wrong with that?

[Jords]

No

[Stu]

This thread's great proof that reverse snobbery is even more annoying that regular snobbery.

Rich twats lol.

[Z]

This thread's great proof that reverse snobbery is even more annoying that regular snobbery.

Rich twats lol.

This. I'm sitting here reading this like, okay so I went to a private school, I forgot that that instantly makes me the son of millionaires! Let me go post this reply while I'm jetski-ing in the Maldives! Clarence! More tea!

[Pyramid*]

I went to a private school. I think it was 10% of my school was made up of pupils who were there on bursaries/scholarships. My mum started working again so that my parents could get the money together to be able to send me and my younger brother to that school. She gets up at 5am to go to work, my dad's up at 6am, they work long days and they go without a lot of things that they would love to have in order to pay for my brother and I's education. I don't think I am a stuck up person or that I'm any of the things that people have said in this thread about privately educated school pupils. I worked my ass off to get 5As in my Highers, I've just finished my second year of a university degree. Some of my friends have extremely wealthy parents, some of them do not. I'm not sure why there are so many stereotypes being listed in this thread, but it's kind of grating to read because people who act like that in real life are nowhere near as commonplace as is being implied in this thread. Sure, there are some idiots with money (or rather, people with money who have idiot kids) but that can't be helped - in my experience the overwhelming majority of pupils at my school were there to do well and get the best education because everyone else was there to work. Two people left my year of school at the end of 4th year, the minimum age for leaving school. Two. Private schools don't just exist so wealthy people can throw money at them (and I should also mention that, in case it's being forgotten, people who pay for private education still have to contribute to the public school system too, just like everybody else) - they exist so that people have a more stable learning environment. Beastie, my class sizes were closer to 30 than they were to 15, so I'm not sure where you got that figure from.

If anything, I've found that people who went to state schools are openly hostile towards me when they discover I went to a private school because of their stereotypical views, and not because of me. That is, they have this idea in their head of what a private school kid is like and then transfer that on top of my personality, and hate away on a system by making snide comments to me. I'm humble about it. My parents sacrificed a lot to put me there and I tried my absolute hardest to make them proud of me, and I did, what's wrong with that?


Absolutely first rate post Zee. The comments within your last paragraph being so very true: as exemplified by quite a few on this very thread in respect of stereotypical views and blinkered perceptions.

[Pyramid*]

This thread's great proof that reverse snobbery is even more annoying that regular snobbery.

Rich twats lol.

And life's a bitch but hey, that's life for you. lol

[Toxic]

NO!

Why let people who already have alot of money benefit further in life? we should all be given equal oppertunitys.

[Shaun]

eh sure why not.

grammar schools >

[Pyramid*]

NO!

Why let people who already have alot of money benefit further in life? we should all be given equal oppertunitys.

If ever proof was needed, if ever there was a reason for private education, this is it!!:hugesmile:

[Toxic]

If ever proof was needed, if ever there was a reason for private education, this is it!!:hugesmile:

Dont talk about me like that, how dare you, I was just giving my opinion and that doesn't make me any less intelligent than you.

[Pyramid*]

Dont talk about me like that, how dare you, I was just giving my opinion and that doesn't make me any less intelligent than you.

Who said anything about less intelligent - please don't jump to conclusions and pretend I said something I didn't.

I was in fact referring to your last post and in particular your words, 'those with a lot of money'.... you clearly haven't read many of the posts put up by members who HAVE had private education, but come from very humble backgrounds - and not because they came from families with a lot of money - but to the contrary.

You not acknowledging this basic fact, rather than showing you as being intelligent or not is not for me to decide: what it does show is an ability to avoid what others are clearly stating. That it does not take 'those with a lot of money' to be the only people who send their children to private schooling. What it does show is this misconception that it is only those 'with a lot of money' who benefit from such education. This is simply not true.

To avoid and dismiss the comments from members telling others on here that they did not come from well to do families seems not only a blinkered thing to do: it's also quite an ignorant viewpoint based on skewed perception.

[letmein]

This thread is ripe with Communists.

No wonder Britain is in the state it's in.

[Tom4784]

If somebody has the resources or the determination to attend these schools then good for them. If iIwas a parent and I had the chance to send my kids to one I'd do it. I just think that maybe there should be more scholarships and the like on offer to give more chances to talented pupils who don't have the money to attend these places.

[Pyramid*]

If somebody has the resources or the determination to attend these schools then good for them. If iIwas a parent and I had the chance to send my kids to one I'd do it. I just think that maybe there should be more scholarships and the like on offer to give more chances to talented pupils who don't have the money to attend these places.

Excellent point and I agree 100%.

Just think of the amount of scholarships that the government could fund: instead of ploughing such finances into handing out new IDs to child abusers and child murders. Would be nice for the Government to divert those millions of pounds that they put toward the evil people in our society - and gave it to the 'good people' in our society.

[Pyramid*]

At the point of me posting this comment: 22 members have put up comment.

Out of those 22 members: at least 4 have been educated (full or in part) privately.

That' represents 18.8% - ie: almost a fifth of the members on this thread have received private schooling - without knowing Chuck's background - all others have stated that they do not come from rich / well off /wealthy families.

I happen to be aware of at least 4 other members (and I don't mean those who never post: I mean regular active posters, who have been educated privately and are not 'rolling in it').

Kinda blows the myth that many have on here that private education is only for the elite few and the very rich in our society ......... hard to argue with the figures.

[CharlieO]

I go to a private school and my School in England previously and in future is/was a private school. I don't think I am stuck up in anyway and I don't look down on anyone who goes to a free school.
I don't see anything wrong with having other opportunities available. If parents can afford a school that needs to be paid for and can give the child better opportunities in the future I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to harness that.

I agree with the scholarship points though.

[Pyramid*]

I go to a private school and my School in England previously and in future is/was a private school. I don't think I am stuck up in anyway and I don't look down on anyone who goes to a free school.
I don't see anything wrong with having other opportunities available. If parents can afford a school that needs to be paid for and can give the child better opportunities in the future I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to harness that.

I agree with the scholarship points though.

*goes and reviews my stats* lol. ;)

[InOne]

Yes they should.

If I had the money to send my kids to the best school possible I would. What's the point in not?

[Angus]

It's staggering that so many people still believe you have to be rich to go to private schools. I'm working class and left school at 16 because I had to in order to get a job and start contributing to the family finances. I returned to higher education when I was in my 30s and gained a BSc(Hons), a BA(Hons), a PGCE and several diplomas. My kids grew up appreciating the value of education and they were bright kids who were being held back by the state system which thrives on mediocrity and treating all kids as if they are equal in intellect and ability when in fact we know damn well that's not true.

My eldest went to a private school age 11 on the Assisted Places scheme which Labour lost no time in abolishing in 1997 thereby depriving poor kids of the opportunities those hypocritical labour mps gave their own kids. My youngest then won a scholarship to a prestigious private school so I didn't pay any fees for either of them and they had the most amazing, productive and inspiring education. Contrary to the misinformed opinions on this forum, most private schools offer scholarships and their own assisted places schemes if you can't afford the fees.

Anyway, what on earth is it the business of anyone how others spend their money? Just because I can't afford a mansion, rolls royce, private health care and expensive holidays, does that give me the right to ban these things for others who can afford them?

Communism does NOT work, it just spreads mediocrity around, kills aspiration and motivation, and spawns different types of hierarchy and dictatorships. We are individuals with different talents, abilities and belief systems - there is no "one size fits all", so just live and let live.

[Pyramid*]

It's staggering that so many people still believe you have to be rich to go to private schools. I'm working class and left school at 16 because I had to in order to get a job and start contributing to the family finances. I returned to higher education when I was in my 30s and gained a BSc(Hons), a BA(Hons), a PGCE and several diplomas. My kids grew up appreciating the value of education and they were bright kids who were being held back by the state system which thrives on mediocrity and treating all kids as if they are equal in intellect and ability when in fact we know damn well that's not true.

My eldest went to a private school age 11 on the Assisted Places scheme which Labour lost no time in abolishing in 1997 thereby depriving poor kids of the opportunities those hypocritical labour mps gave their own kids. My youngest then won a scholarship to a prestigious private school so I didn't pay any fees for either of them and they had the most amazing, productive and inspiring education. Contrary to the misinformed opinions on this forum, most private schools offer scholarships and their own assisted places schemes if you can't afford the fees.

Anyway, what on earth is it the business of anyone how others spend their money? Just because I can't afford a mansion, rolls royce, private health care and expensive holidays, does that give me the right to ban these things for others who can afford them?

Communism does NOT work, it just spreads mediocrity around, kills aspiration and motivation, and spawns different types of hierarchy and dictatorships. We are individuals with different talents, abilities and belief systems - there is no "one size fits all", so just live and let live.


I think it's less to do with genuine belief that only the rich or well off pay for private education for their children - and more to do with not wanting to accept that it's more than just the 'occasional' working class parent/parents who actually do make that choice, and make sacrifices to do so.

It's the ill-informed judgements and prejudices on this thread that I find more staggering than anything!

The facts speak for themselves on this thread.

[Beastie]

This thread's great proof that reverse snobbery is even more annoying that regular snobbery.

Rich twats lol.

I created this thread because at the end of the day I think everyone should have the same level of education. Well except those who have learning difficulties or are disabled in which they get extra help anyway or go to a different special school. I think all schools should have a special needs department because most people are cabable. They just need extra help and encouragement. I actually think some parents are great that they save their money to put their sprogs in private schools. Rather than purchase other goods that are no use really.

I just think in the future the education system should change with no private schools. I know that some rich people or people who have been in private schools will disagree with this. Especially from going to a better education to a distinctly average education. I just think everything is too capitalist and everyone in education should be granted the same opportunities.

I have never said anything about stereotypes. You get knobheads in the public school and private school but you also get all round decent people in both schools too. You get snobbery EVERYWHERE. Reverse snobbery is just as bad as snobbery. Unfortunately I get the blunt of both snobbery and reverse snobbery. Because I am more fortunate than some people.. but some people look down at me in the job I do and they think I should have gone to university or something.

I think with no private schools the public schools will become more better off. If parents want their kids or if the kids themselves want to excel in something then they should have classes outside the national curriculum which should be provided for those who are "gifted".

[Chuck]

At the point of me posting this comment: 22 members have put up comment.

Out of those 22 members: at least 4 have been educated (full or in part) privately.

That' represents 18.8% - ie: almost a fifth of the members on this thread have received private schooling - without knowing Chuck's background - all others have stated that they do not come from rich / well off /wealthy families.

I happen to be aware of at least 4 other members (and I don't mean those who never post: I mean regular active posters, who have been educated privately and are not 'rolling in it').

Kinda blows the myth that many have on here that private education is only for the elite few and the very rich in our society ......... hard to argue with the figures.


I'm not very rich :nono:
My two half-sisters lost their father a long time ago and my parents are separated, so my mum had only herself to provide us with everything we needed and she wanted to give us the best she could possibly give and in order to do so she had to work really really really hard to be able to afford private education for us all and I'm not only talking about private schools but language courses and exchange programs as well.

My sisters and I are not stuck up, we dont look down on anyone who went to public school, we dont live in a bubble nor we feel superior to anyone regardless of their background. :nono:

[Pyramid*]

I'm not very rich :nono:
My two half-sisters lost their father a long time ago and my parents are separated, so my mum had only herself to provide us with everything we needed and she wanted to give us the best she could possibly give and in order to do so she had to work really really really hard to be able to afford private education for us all and I'm not only talking about private schools but language courses and exchange programs as well.

My sisters and I are not stuck up, we dont look down on anyone who went to public school, we dont live in a bubble nor we feel superior to anyone regardless of their background. :nono:

No need for the wagging fingers if you're wagging them at me ..... I actually included you in my earlier figures. ;)

[Chuck]

:joker:

[Pyramid*]

I created this thread because at the end of the day I think everyone should have the same level of education. Well except those who have learning difficulties or are disabled in which they get extra help anyway or go to a different special school. I think all schools should have a special needs department because most people are cabable. They just need extra help and encouragement. I actually think some parents are great that they save their money to put their sprogs in private schools. Rather than purchase other goods that are no use really.

I just think in the future the education system should change with no private schools. I know that some rich people or people who have been in private schools will disagree with this. Especially from going to a better education to a distinctly average education. I just think everything is too capitalist and everyone in education should be granted the same opportunities.

I have never said anything about stereotypes. You get knobheads in the public school and private school but you also get all round decent people in both schools too. You get snobbery EVERYWHERE. Reverse snobbery is just as bad as snobbery. Unfortunately I get the blunt of both snobbery and reverse snobbery. Because I am more fortunate than some people.. but some people look down at me in the job I do and they think I should have gone to university or something.

I think with no private schools the public schools will become more better off. If parents want their kids or if the kids themselves want to excel in something then they should have classes outside the national curriculum which should be provided for those who are "gifted".


Correct you didn't but still they showed up on the thread.

for what it is worth: I have found through very personal experience that many working to middle class 'children' - who go on to attend University - in my own experience from the great many I have met - they come into the workplace on internships / work placements -they are the very ones who look down on others, they are the ones who think they are something, and have the view that they are above even those far more experienced (academically and professionally).

Far more so than any person who has been privately educated during their school years.

Your comment that I've put in red though - confused the issue somewhat for me. Doesn't that invalidate to a degree, your feeling that there should be no private education at all - if on one hand you are 'applauding' parents who do that, but then are saying there shouldn't be different educational systems? :conf:

[CharlieO]

Through reading this thread you can see that the prejudices aren't coming from richer people looking down on others but rather the other way around.

I hate how people say things like 'if you are lucky enough to have enough money', I know my parents and other peoples parents work extremely hard to be able to afford things so to judge people that have money in a bad light is ridiculous. It's not like every rich person only has money because they won the lottery and then chooses to go rub it in other people's faces. I come from an upper middle class family but do not AT ALL look down on others who are different in monetary terms, and I work hard for the education my parents pay for.

Also if all people were forced to go to public schools all it would do is separate children more. Parents of richer families would have more disposable income as they would be saving money from not paying for education then would be spent on materialistic items, the 'richer' kids would have more expensive things for Christmas as an example then bullying would occur based on what majority the school held. More middle class students then the working class children would be bullied on a monetary basis and visa versa.

[Beastie]

Correct you didn't but still they showed up on the thread.

for what it is worth: I have found through very personal experience that many working to middle class 'children' - who go on to attend University - in my own experience from the great many I have met - they come into the workplace on internships / work placements -they are the very ones who look down on others, they are the ones who think they are something, and have the view that they are above even those far more experienced (academically and professionally).

Far more so than any person who has been privately educated during their school years.

Your comment that I've put in red though - confused the issue somewhat for me. Doesn't that invalidate to a degree, your feeling that there should be no private education at all - if on one hand you are 'applauding' parents who do that, but then are saying there shouldn't be different educational systems? :conf:



There should be a different educational system in the future. I am just applauding parents of what is happening now.

However I applaud parents more who actually give a damn about their children. Not the ones who just dump them at private schools AND public schools but who actually take time with them outside of school like reading them a story.. etc..

[Chuck]

Through reading this thread you can see that the prejudices aren't coming from richer people looking down on others but rather the other way around.

.

I know :bored:

[Pyramid*]

There should be a different educational system in the future. I am just applauding parents of what is happening now.

However I applaud parents more who actually give a damn about their children. Not the ones who just dump them at private schools AND public schools but who actually take time with them outside of school like reading them a story.. etc..

Mmm.... only my personal viewpoint: but I think that's entering a whole different territory and whole different debate.

[Pyramid*]

Through reading this thread you can see that the prejudices aren't coming from richer people looking down on others but rather the other way around.

I hate how people say things like 'if you are lucky enough to have enough money', I know my parents and other peoples parents work extremely hard to be able to afford things so to judge people that have money in a bad light is ridiculous. It's not like every rich person only has money because they won the lottery and then chooses to go rub it in other people's faces. I come from an upper middle class family but do not AT ALL look down on others who are different in monetary terms, and I work hard for the education my parents pay for.

Also if all people were forced to go to public schools all it would do is separate children more. Parents of richer families would have more disposable income as they would be saving money from not paying for education then would be spent on materialistic items, the 'richer' kids would have more expensive things for Christmas as an example then bullying would occur based on what majority the school held. More middle class students then the working class children would be bullied on a monetary basis and visa versa.

So true. Funnily enough: the ones who appear to be moaning, and being very prejudiced, are the very ones who are actually benefitting from hard working parents such as 'ours', who not only area paying into the public coffers to fund such state schooling, to allow them to study for 'free'....... even though those same parents are not putting any strain on that same State system, by opting to use their hard earned money toward private education.

Strange that eh..... ;)

[MTVN]

This thread's great proof that reverse snobbery is even more annoying that regular snobbery.

Rich twats lol.

Through reading this thread you can see that the prejudices aren't coming from richer people looking down on others but rather the other way around.

Noone's said anything like that, this isn't about hating someone or being jealous of them because they're rich, it's about not wanting to encourage inherent privilege & social immoblity built into the educational system.

Look at the evidence: private school kids are 4x more likely to get straight A's at A-level, 3x more likely to go to university and most of the top end high payedjobs like Lawyers & Politicians are dominated by those from private schools. This is the point: private schools all but ensure a life of privilege over those not lucky enough to go to one. As Pyramid has rightly pointed out, working class families can and do attend private schools but that doesn't mean they're quite easily accessible to all sectors of the population.

Of course noone blames parents who do have the money for sending their kids to private schools because most of the time they are better but that isnt the point here & any objection to private schooling shouldnt be simplified down to a dislike of rich people.

[Beastie]

So true. Funnily enough: the ones who appear to be moaning, and being very prejudiced, are the very ones who are actually benefitting from hard working parents such as 'ours', who not only area paying into the public coffers to fund such state schooling, to allow them to study for 'free'....... even though those same parents are not putting any strain on that same State system, by opting to use their hard earned money toward private education.

Strange that eh..... ;)

But not all parents can afford private education. There are plenty of hard working mums and dads who work long hours but still can't afford to pay for private education and they have no choice but to go to a public school. These parents still don't spend their money on fancy holidays or cars or whatever. All the hours they work can only pay for the bills and put food on the table and that's it. I do know that middle class families. Some of them save up every penny to put their sprog through private school but others.. even after every penny they have saved. Can't afford it!

[Pyramid*]

But not all parents can afford private education. There are plenty of hard working mums and dads who work long hours but still can't afford to pay for private education and they have no choice but to go to a public school. These parents still don't spend their money on fancy holidays or cars or whatever. All the hours they work can only pay for the bills and put food on the table and that's it. I do know that middle class families. Some of them save up every penny to put their sprog through private school but others.. even after every penny they have saved. Can't afford it!

And there are plenty of families who spend a fortune every single month on the most expensive clothing, shoes, trainers, jackets, iphones, ipads, laptops, XBoxes, Playstations, all the games etc, holidays spent lazing on a beach only, car replaced every 2 years, ....... who also take the view that 'they cannot afford to send their kids to private school'.

They could afford it 3 times over if they chose to...if they wanted to.

Of course there will be plenty who simply cannot afford - but to shut eyes to the great many who COULD -but spend the money on materialistic things, is far higher than many will admit to.

Much of it comes down to choice...and if some working class parents wish to divert any disposible income towards a better education: then so be it.

the point about scholarships etc, funding grants etc: all seems to be getting ignored - it's not only for those who can financially afford, there are other options available.

[Beastie]

And there are plenty of families who spend a fortune every single month on the most expensive clothing, shoes, trainers, jackets, iphones, ipads, laptops, XBoxes, Playstations, all the games etc, holidays spent lazing on a beach only, car replaced every 2 years, ....... who also take the view that 'they cannot afford to send their kids to private school'.

They could afford it 3 times over if they chose to...if they wanted to.

Of course there will be plenty who simply cannot afford - but to shut eyes to the great many who COULD -but spend the money on materialistic things, is far higher than many will admit to.

Much of it comes down to choice...and if some working class parents wish to divert any disposible income towards a better education: then so be it.

the point about scholarships etc, funding grants etc: all seems to be getting ignored - it's not only for those who can financially afford, there are other options available.


Much of it comes down to choice? Not really. Most people couldn't afford XX amount per year for a private school. Suppose it also depends how many sprogs you have too. Not all people spend money on the latest materialistic fashions. Some families are lucky enough to afford a day out somewhere with their kids!! There is too much stereotyping. It all comes down to the family itself. Yes.. one working class family could spend all their earnings on Sky TV or whatever. But then another saves every penny to put food on the table for the family and pay the bills!!

I think most families. Working, middle, upper class and whatever. Most of them want their children to have a decent education.

Yes I agree more funding grants and scholarships should be given out. My grandma got a funding grant/scholarship years ago because she came from quite a poor family. But she was gifted academically. She became a headteacher of a school and taught Maths.

However University. You only only have to pay the XX amount of tuition fees back if you earn over 21 grand a year. Bloody hell I would be over the moon earning 20 grand a year!! But then again if you go to Uni.. well it's free to get all your resources from the library. Well I think so.. when I was at college I think they were keeping an account of how often pupils were allowed to print off their college work. If you live at home it will be cheaper too usually if people can have that choice.

[lostalex]

If you work hard and earn money, you should be able to spend it however you like, including on private education for your children.
All of the arguments against private education are basically saying they want to live in a communist state. One school for everyone, no choices.

If you believe in freedom, then you should want to have as many choices as possible. Freedom means choices. Private schools mean more choices for everyone.

[Liberty4eva]

Personally, I think a more appropriate question would be should public schools exist? The primary function of public schools today is for you to learn how to be a good (and by good I mean subserviant) citizen of the state that has no backbone and is incapable of independent thought. The dirty little secret is you don't need to be super wealthy for kids to be homeschooled so I think public schools should be abolished. Think of all the less taxes people would have to pay.

[Liberty4eva]

Maybe I should elaborate a little more on my last post.

In public schools today (in the states) at the start of every single school day children put their right hand up over their heart, face the classroom flag and say "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." I bet at least 95% of adult Americans can still remember it by heart because that's what they recited every single day. And it's all about indoctrinating people into believing the US is a force for good. In school, you'll learn about how 9/11 happened the way the 9/11 commission said it happened. You'll learn about how Oswald shot Kennedy the way the Warren report says it happened. You'll learn about how the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan for security and altruistic/humanitarian reasons like "spreading democracy". You'll learn about how the north fought the American Civil War to end slavery when keeping the Southern tax revenue flowing to Washington was probably closer to the real reason. Most importantly, you'll learn that our government sometimes makes mistakes but ultimately they're trying their best because they care about each and every one of us. When you get to the University level, you'll learn how the Federal Reserve is there to stabilize our money supply, keep inflation low, and in general help our economy and how fiat money is superior to commodity money like gold or silver. Basically, they're out to squash any trace of independent thought and make you into someone who will ask no questions and obey all orders.

Public schools should be phased out.

[lostalex]

were you home schooled liberty4?

[Liberty4eva]

were you home schooled liberty4?

A little bit. In the 4th grade I was and for high school I was.

[lostalex]

A little bit. In the 4th grade I was.

Well i'm certainly glad i wasn't home-schooled. I think social interaction and having peers your own age is important for a child's development.

I don't think home-schoolin should be illegal, but i do think parents should have to have a certified teaching degree if they home-school their children.

homeschooling does seem like a bit of a cult...sometimes. :| no offense..

[Liberty4eva]

Well i'm certainly glad i wasn't home-schooled. I think social interaction and having peers your own age is important for a child's development.

It doesn't mean that you have no social interaction. Are you saying that before public schools existed kids had no social interaction?

[lostalex]

It doesn't mean that you have no social interaction. Are you saying that before public schools existed kids had no social interaction?

umm, unless you count farm animals... yes.

Maybe that's an unfair stereotype though?