Will The NOTW Scandal Bring Down David Cameron?

[letmein]

It's looking more and more that way. Apparently, even more ties between Cameron and NOTW is about to come out. What do you think?

[joeysteele]

I don't think it will likely bring him down,but if he does not set up very soon a body to look into this as well as the Police, and if he does not make that body more impartial with a judge at its head then he is likely to be seen as helping hide something.

His friend Coulson is it's reported being arrested tomorrow(?), if things come to light as to his involvement in anything untoward in this then Camerons judgement and capability will be well and truly questioned. He will be damaged badly by that.

It may not actually bring Cameron down but this news is going to run likely for the next year to 2 years at least so it will virtually I think see Cameron, if he stays PM, getting booted out at the next election in 3 years 9 months time.

[Shaun]

He's being too tentative to dish out punishments, he clearly has some hidden interests. Ho hum.

[Omah]

I don't think it will likely bring him down,but if he does not set up very soon a body to look into this as well as the Police, and if he does not make that body more impartial with a judge at its head then he is likely to be seen as helping hide something.

His friend Coulson is it's reported being arrested tomorrow(?), if things come to light as to his involvement in anything untoward in this then Camerons judgement and capability will be well and truly questioned. He will be damaged badly by that.

It may not actually bring Cameron down but this news is going to run likely for the next year to 2 years at least so it will virtually I think see Cameron, if he stays PM, getting booted out at the next election in 3 years 9 months time.

Yeah, I agree - Cameron's too well ensonced to be booted at the moment ..... but any more crises or disasters will see him ditched by his party sooner rather than later ..... :thumbs:

[joeysteele]

It is the sort of thing that can bring a Govt down though,as I said on another thread, it will depend on the Lib Dems, this may be something they can use to get out of the coalition.

This scandal is going to run for ages so anything can happen in politics.Cameron will be very damaged by it anyway because of Andy Coulson and also a great many Conservative MPs see Cameron as a loser anyway by failing to win an overall majority in an election that was the easiest ever for an opposition to win.

[Lewis.]

For people that don't really read into all of the events, a lot of then won't know of any kind of connection anyway. But for those that do read into the stories a little it may certainly be his downfall - it just depends on how many people can see the link and what they know about the background of the story.

[Zippy]

No.

[arista]

No.

[Marc]

Nah I doubt it... the hatred for him might come next elections! :wink:

[joeysteele]

A lot will depend on the Lib Dems as I said, they are effectively ruled by their party executive/Members at conference,if the members are up in arms on this and if revelations as to Coulson are bad, then Cameron's connection with him will really sicken the voters further.

The Lib Dems, should there be any rise in their fortunes in polls,by distancing themselves from this scandal,may well jump ship citing this as the reason.
That would likely mean a general election,in which,no way could the Conservatives ever win an overall majority even without this scandal, if Cameron is seen as having to be dragged kicking and screaming to address the issues arising then that could happen.

Many Tory MPs would like to see Cameron replaced anyway. I would imagine there are a fair few very nervous MPs at present, Cameron being one of the main ones because of his strong connection to Andy Coulson,if its proven he lied to the select committee, Cameron's judgement is blown to pieces completely.

[joeysteele]

Watching Cameron on Sky news this morning though, with a group of people some of whom are Conservative voters,even they found him very unconvincing in his answers and beleive now that even he may have known a lot more.

[Lewis.]

Watching Cameron on Sky news this morning though, with a group of people some of whom are Conservative voters,even they found him very unconvincing in his answers and beleive now that even he may have known a lot more.

Wouldn't surprise me really, I expect an awful lot of these kinds of scandals are covered up by the government.

[joeysteele]

Wouldn't surprise me really, I expect an awful lot of these kinds of scandals are covered up by the government.

Well he admitted working (very closely) with Coulson for 4 years, that he became a good friend, that they had discussed the issues of what had seemingly happened at the News of the World in the past, that he had given him a 2nd chance,(if he had done nothing really wrong why was it termed a 2nd chance), that he had served the Country and the Tory party well in his duties,(that could mean anything).

Then he said he had been in close contact with Coulson since his resignation but oddly he hasn't been in the last few weeks.
A very unconvincing performance and one that opens up far more questions than the very few he did answer to any satisfaction.

Cameron looks in a spot of bother on this one depending on what happens and transpires with Andy Coulson, If Coulson is deemed to have lied to the PM, lied to the Country, has known of payments to the Police etc, then Cameron is not just at fault for his judgement but for also even speaking for him,even today, in any kind of glowing terminology.

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14078781

"mea culpa, mea culpa, mea máxima culpa"

That's latin for "I'm talking bo11ox to save my ass" ..... :joker:

[joeysteele]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14078781

"mea culpa, mea culpa, mea máxima culpa"

That's latin for "I'm talking bo11ox to save my ass" ..... :joker:

They have now arrested Coulson in connection with corruption this morning so depending on the outcome of that, I would think the PM is a rather nervous person today now.

[Livia]

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who will be focusing attention on David Cameron over this issue. I say unfortunately because it is deflecting the attention from those who are actually to blame.

Will this be the end of Cameron? No, I don't think so. If the Iraq Inquiry didn't bring down the Labour Party, if widespread public protest against war in Iraq didn't stop Blair taking this country into a fruitless conflict, on a lie and against the wishes of the very people he was supposed to be representing, then those who are hoping this will finish Cameron are being a little optimistic.

[joeysteele]

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who will be focusing attention on David Cameron over this issue. I say unfortunately because it is deflecting the attention from those who are actually to blame.

Will this be the end of Cameron? No, I don't think so. If the Iraq Inquiry didn't bring down the Labour Party, if widespread public protest against war in Iraq didn't stop Blair taking this country into a fruitless conflict, on a lie and against the wishes of the very people he was supposed to be representing, then those who are hoping this will finish Cameron are being a little optimistic.

Naturally as ever, I will bow to your greater knowledge Livia, you know I always hold what you say in the highest regard as to politics.

I do think there is a difference with this scandal,as opposed to the Irag inquiry though.
Unfortunately for him,David Cameron failed to get an overall majority at the election,unlike Blair and Brown to a degree,he is in an already vulnerable situation as to Westminster.

He also has as his lifeboat at present, the volatile, highly unpredictable and also very untrustworthy Lib Dems,who, were they to be forced to really distance themselves by their party's executive at their conference from this scandal and therefore the coalition would leave him literally up the creek without a paddle.

I hope it doesn't bring him down although I do think some policies need changing and dramatically,especially as to the NHS. however he will need to be seen as taking the press on now, not playing to them,he hasn't come across as doing that or that he's even willing to thus far.

Some things stick with PMs, Blair the teflon Tony, seemed like he could get away with anything, Brown just had to open his mouth and few agreed with much he said and he was ridiculed for it.

I do know that many in the Tory party are still smouldering at Cameron for failing to get an overall majority and having to cosy up to the Lib Dems, so this may be the thing even they use to get to him too.
I think a very uncertain future hangs over the coalition and Cameron now and if this goes on as it's predicted to for possibly years then he may not be able to shake it off.

Both Conservative and Labour govts of the past should have had as good a relationship with the media as was possible, but not do as the Conservatives regularly have and also what Tony Blair did too fully embrace the likes of the Murdoch empire at least.
Most of the former Labour govt has some questions to answer on this one too.

I don't know, I am a novice at politics,you are far better at explaining and understanding the ways of Govt than I am Livia but listening to people around me recently,particularly today,even Conservative supporters, they are not convinced Cameron has his finger on the pulse of this one and if it really comes out that dead servicemens families have had phones hacked too then they think Cameron's days are numbered because few see him winning the next election either.

Some things become really toxic in politics, at the moment that is likely to become Andy Coulson (depending on what comes out eventually).
Cameron's association with him may be too much to dismiss in the future and could be his downfall.
So much still to run on this issue, I think the Cameron led govt could be in trouble.

[Livia]

Hey Joey...

It's interesting to hear what you think, even though I don't agree with all of it. For instance, you say Conservatives are smouldering at Cameron for failing to get an overall majority like Blair or Brown. Actually, Brown never won an election. He was a completely unelected PM.

It's true that some Tory policies to have to change, and Cameron has shown himself to be willing to do a u-turn in the face of public opposition. Of course he is criticised for u-turns just as he would be criticised if he were unwilling to do a u-turn. It's the nature of the beast; you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.

Whatever David Cameron's involvement with Andy Coulson, he is not responsible for the hacking of people's phones. It seems to me that to make David Cameron a scapegoat in this sordid affair is deflecting the blame from the people responsible and I wonder whether the energy that's being put into slagging the Tories could be more fruitful it it were directed elsewhere.

Always interesting to hear your take on things, joey.

[joeysteele]

Hello Livia too, bad punctuation on my part, I meant that Cameron failed to get an overall majority at the election, so unlike Blair and Brown, he is in a more vulnerable position as when they were both PMs they had overall majorities in Parliament.

Brown never won anything did he, except his own seat,(bad attempt at a joke that).

I also agree with you that Cameron does change policy and although I wish he would get it near right in the first place I agree it's good to have a PM who is prepeared to backtrack and change or abolish even some policy proven to be bad or unworkable.

I don't blame Cameron for the hacking, but he must be seen to be with no holds barred, going for sorting this out.
I am glad he today has said there will an inquiry headed by a Judge but it seems he has had to be dragged to that position by again media and other sources saying that was the only right way to go.
The fact he wouldn't even say that was likely at PMQs just the day before leaves him open to being seen as still cosying up to the press.

For instance, today, I was chatting to some people, they said he wouldn't give a gurantee early yesterday because he was still a likely close friend of Rebekah Brookes and the News of the World but once it was known the News of the World was to be shut down and also that Coulson was to be arrested today, he then gives that assurance.

People will rightly or wrongly see that as his not having grasped this issue by the throat yet or making sure he puts old loyalties aside and still acts with his eye on the media.

I too think it's wrong to just hammer the Conservatives on this, Labour cosied up the the Murdoch empire while the Sun etc supported Tony Blair.
This hacking issue began when they were in Govt,they did nothing to address it or deal with the press while in power.
However like the expenses scandal, Brown was PM when that broke and Labour in part paid the price for being the Govt. at the time all was revealed, now the Conservatives are in power and again rightly or wrongly this issue will be seen as a scandal in their time in office.

I actually agree with just about all you said in your post and your next post too.
The thread asks though, will this scandal bring down Cameron, I personally hope it doesn't but I do believe as it runs and runs that it could and I can see the Lib Dems running scared as this issue continues to run too.

Very often it seems PMs and Govts get the blame for things that are not wholly or sometimes in part even their fault but the mud stays with them and they pay the price for them.

[arista]

Good posts Joey


Brookes is no longer in charge.

That Paper did some good as well
I am buying it on sunday for the last one.

[joeysteele]

Good posts Joey


Brookes is no longer in charge.

That Paper did some good as well
I am buying it on sunday for the last one.

Wow, thank you arista,I consider your endorsement praise indeed.

[bananarama]

It's looking more and more that way. Apparently, even more ties between Cameron and NOTW is about to come out. What do you think?

Wishful thinking I am afraid........Rodents are good at surviving

[joeysteele]

I don't know as I said before on this thread, Cameron is being seen by many as dragging his heels on this one,even people who cannot stand Ed Miliband are saying he is saying the right things.

The Conservative party has rumblings in it against Cameron, they are worried about this one,they know only too well how scandals destroyed them in 1997.
I think Cameron has a hard road ahead unless he grasps the whole thing and ensures that Murdoch's bid for full control of BSkyB is blocked for the time being, that he gets these inquiries up and running faster than he seems to want to and that he really starts to massively distance himself from the Murdoch papers and empire.

The Lib Dems, with their itchy feet, could well be crucial too in whether Cameron rides out the storm that's brewing.
So much still to be made known, Police investigations seen to be at best a farce, it's not a good time to be seen as a friend of the Murdochs.

A lot of people and growing by the day, I have spoken to or know of, are not impressed at all with Cameron's response to this issue and if Coulson is in really deep trouble then Cameron has a very hard road ahead indeed.

He is still not high in the polls, barely where he was at best in 2010 at the election,the Conservative backbenchers and the 1922 committee will not be impressed if this scandal seems to take them down further.They will blame Cameron for that.

[Ammi]

I don't know as I said before on this thread, Cameron is being seen by many as dragging his heels on this one,even people who cannot stand Ed Miliband are saying he is saying the right things.The Conservative party has rumblings in it against Cameron, they are worried about this one,they know only too well how scandals destroyed them in 1997.
I think Cameron has a hard road ahead unless he grasps the whole thing and ensures that Murdoch's bid for full control of BSkyB is blocked for the time being, that he gets these inquiries up and running faster than he seems to want to and that he really starts to massively distance himself from the Murdoch papers and empire.

The Lib Dems, with their itchy feet, could well be crucial too in whether Cameron rides out the storm that's brewing.
So much still to be made known, Police investigations seen to be at best a farce, it's not a good time to be seen as a friend of the Murdochs.

A lot of people and growing by the day, I have spoken to or know of, are not impressed at all with Cameron's response to this issue and if Coulson is in really deep trouble then Cameron has a very hard road ahead indeed.

He is still not high in the polls, barely where he was at best in 2010 at the election,the Conservative backbenchers and the 1922 committee will not be impressed if this scandal seems to take them down further.They will blame Cameron for that.

Of course Ed Miliband is saying all the right things, he is not under the same pressure as Cameron, the NOTW situation is a gift to him, he'll milk it dry, talk is easy to him he doesn't have to put it into action.

Yes, the public want to see distance between Murdoch and Cameron, but that isn't going to be that simple, Cameron has inherited this relationship with the Murdoch that goes way back, he didn't suddenly start it and it's going to take time to create that distance and Murdoch has such power, of course Cameron will be nervous about how damaging it will all be for him to break off the relationship. This is just another mess that Cameron has inherited and has the nightmare of trying to clean up. As someone has posted, he's damned either way.

You're right Joey, he's still not high in the polls, that's why this will be used as a weapon to bring him down further. But if it wasn't this it would have been something else, no one seems to want him to suceed, so he's not really going to be given a chance.

As Livia said, this is just diverting from the actual situation and the real people responsible. David Cameron is just an easy target, and if the focus is on him, the problem will never get solved

[joeysteele]

Of course Ed Miliband is saying all the right things, he is not under the same pressure as Cameron, the NOTW situation is a gift to him, he'll milk it dry, talk is easy to him he doesn't have to put it into action.

Yes, the public want to see distance between Murdoch and Cameron, but that isn't going to be that simple, Cameron has inherited this relationship with the Murdoch that goes way back, he didn't suddenly start it and it's going to take time to create that distance and Murdoch has such power, of course Cameron will be nervous about how damaging it will all be for him to break off the relationship. This is just another mess that Cameron has inherited and has the nightmare of trying to clean up. As someone has posted, he's damned either way.

You're right Joey, he's still not high in the polls, that's why this will be used as a weapon to bring him down further. But if it wasn't this it would have been something else, no one seems to want him to suceed, so he's not really going to be given a chance.

As Livia said, this is just diverting from the actual situation and the real people responsible. David Cameron is just an easy target, and if the focus is on him, the problem will never get solved

I am absolutely no fan of Ed Miliband rhino, but people are listening to him on this issue,rightly or wrongly.
Cameron should have had the foresight, he is the PM after all,to ensure he was the one seen to be taking the initiative,not allowing Miliband to gather in so much ammunition.


As I said above, Cameron is the PM now, he has to distance himself from the Murdoch empire with credibility,inherited or not, it's something he should have done now, but need to do instantly.He is the PM, watching old newsreel back, I bet Margaret Thatcher would never have got caught out like this.

The expenses scandal was an issue that Brown was sort of left to clean up and do something about, few believe he did or has, he paid the (in part) price for that with a drumming at the ballot box,this issue could well turn into Camerons equivalent of that scandal and he isn't seen to be doing much at all, being made to drag his heels to every thing that needs to be done.

The poll rating is the main one though, there are many disgruntled voices in the Conservative party who are still asking how on earth did Cameron not win an overall majority in the easiest election ever for an opposition party to win,with a reckless Labour govt in deep trouble and a PM in Brown who had become a standing joke.
The fact that the Conservatives only polled 36% in the election and have rarely been above that since in the polls,is further damage to Cameron, this scandal and his at best only fair responses to the issues as yet may take his poll ratings down from low to even lower and that will be seen as massive failure by the Conservative party.

I feel sorry for Cameron, he has the deficit to deal with, the economy is still in poor shape,the recovery still extremely fragile, inflation higher, he has the added noose of Nick Clegg and his band of two faced deceivers around his neck, yapping like ankle biters all the time and now this scandal.

All the more reason to take full and assertive control, put all old loyalties aside and be the PM not like an assistant who has to be led by others to do and say the right things 'eventually'.
Failure to do so, will just continue to fuel the negatives as to his judgement,his reasons and moreso his competence.

He is the PM of the UK and sadly on issues like this all eyes and ears are on him,by having to be dragged near kicking and screaming to do anything he unfortunately makes himself an easy target for those who would bring him down, even worse for him is that many in his party have wanted that since he failed to get an overall majority and has then had to cosy up to the Lib Dems to be able to govern at all.

Had he not been able to get their support, he would have been gone a short time after the election.

[Ammi]

I am absolutely no fan of Ed Miliband rhino, but people are listening to him on this issue,rightly or wrongly.
Cameron should have had the foresight, he is the PM after all,to ensure he was the one seen to be taking the initiative,not allowing Miliband to gather in so much ammunition.


As I said above, Cameron is the PM now, he has to distance himself from the Murdoch empire with credibility,inherited or not, it's something he should have done now, but need to do instantly.He is the PM, watching old newsreel back, I bet Margaret Thatcher would never have got caught out like this.

The expenses scandal was an issue that Brown was sort of left to clean up and do something about, few believe he did or has, he paid the (in part) price for that with a drumming at the ballot box,this issue could well turn into Camerons equivalent of that scandal and he isn't seen to be doing much at all, being made to drag his heels to every thing that needs to be done.

The poll rating is the main one though, there are many disgruntled voices in the Conservative party who are still asking how on earth did Cameron not win an overall majority in the easiest election ever for an opposition party to win,with a reckless Labour govt in deep trouble and a PM in Brown who had become a standing joke.
The fact that the Conservatives only polled 36% in the election and have rarely been above that since in the polls,is further damage to Cameron, this scandal and his at best only fair responses to the issues as yet may take his poll ratings down from low to even lower and that will be seen as massive failure by the Conservative party.

I feel sorry for Cameron, he has the deficit to deal with, the economy is still in poor shape,the recovery still extremely fragile, inflation higher, he has the added noose of Nick Clegg and his band of two faced deceivers around his neck, yapping like ankle biters all the time and now this scandal.

All the more reason to take full and assertive control, put all old loyalties aside and be the PM not like an assistant who has to be led by others to do and say the right things 'eventually'.
Failure to do so, will just continue to fuel the negatives as to his judgement,his reasons and moreso his competence.

He is the PM of the UK and sadly on issues like this all eyes and ears are on him,by having to be dragged near kicking and screaming to do anything he unfortunately makes himself an easy target for those who would bring him down, even worse for him is that many in his party have wanted that since he failed to get an overall majority and has then had to cosy up to the Lib Dems to be able to govern at all.

Had he not been able to get their support, he would have been gone a short time after the election.

Unfortunately Cameron as not a strong leader and imo is to the Conservative party what Brown was to new labour. Comparing him to Thatcher is like comparing a lamb and a lion and he does not have the charisma or the popularity that got Blair elected in the first place. It's a shame because this could have been an opportunity to show certainly the younger generation that there was another (and better) government than Labour. I fear this won't be the case as Cameron is just not up to the job and that's a fact. Even if he was amazingly dynamic it would be a struggle at every step as the polls show the public are willing him to fail rather than be hopeful he may not.

Politics is politics Joey, and unfortunately that will mean all focus will be on Cameron and not on the despicable and disgusting behaviour of the people responsible for this NOTW exploitation

[joeysteele]

Unfortunately Cameron as not a strong leader and imo is to the Conservative party what Brown was to new labour. Comparing him to Thatcher is like comparing a lamb and a lion and he does not have the charisma or the popularity that got Blair elected in the first place. It's a shame because this could have been an opportunity to show certainly the younger generation that there was another (and better) government than Labour. I fear this won't be the case as Cameron is just not up to the job and that's a fact. Even if he was amazingly dynamic it would be a struggle at every step as the polls show the public are willing him to fail rather than be hopeful he may not.

Politics is politics Joey, and unfortunately that will mean all focus will be on Cameron and not on the despicable and disgusting behaviour of the people responsible for this NOTW exploitation

I easily agree with all that, somehow I still feel Rebekah Brookes has shocks coming and likely will fall. I also think the Police may find themselves far more scrutinised as more gets revealed as to their antics in this too.


I hope Cameron wakes up, gets the BSkyB deal put on the back boiler, with all this going on there is no way at present the Murdochs could be seen as appropriate people to own fully BSkyB. There must be ways to put all that on hold pending all these investiagtions and inquiries.

I then hope Cameron himself, distances himself from those he called friends,it's clear if Cameron asked if any more was to come out on this as to Andy Coulson,if Coulson said no, then he was deceived and lied to by Coulson, he owes him no loyalty whatsoever.

As you say politics is politics and the only friends you have there are fair weather friends, wanting to be there with you on the way up and while you are at the top but who desert you the moment you start to fall.

Cameron needs to learn that and do so with Coulson, Brookes and the Murdochs.

[Ammi]

I easily agree with all that, somehow I still feel Rebekah Brookes has shocks coming and likely will fall. I also think the Police may find themselves far more scrutinised as more gets revealed as to their antics in this too.


I hope Cameron wakes up, gets the BSkyB deal put on the back boiler, with all this going on there is no way at present the Murdochs could be seen as appropriate people to own fully BSkyB. There must be ways to put all that on hold pending all these investiagtions and inquiries.

I then hope Cameron himself, distances himself from those he called friends,it's clear if Cameron asked if any more was to come out on this as to Andy Coulson,if Coulson said no, then he was deceived and lied to by Coulson, he owes him no loyalty whatsoever.

As you say politics is politics and the only friends you have there are fair weather friends, wanting to be there with you on the way up and while you are at the top but who desert you the moment you start to fall.

Cameron needs to learn that and do so with Coulson, Brookes and the Murdochs.

.............in an ideal and just world................unfortunately for Cameron he has the unenvied task of holding the highly influential media executives accountable to appease the public while at the same time so desperately needing those executives on side so as try and keep what shaky amount of popularity he has - would take some real brain power to handle that problem and as I said before Cameron...............................poor guy, I do feel sympathy for him, too busy trying to clear up **** to have time to concentrate on any policies, but hey, problem is he's part of the **** we're given in politics these days. I don't think we could do much worse if we had an 'Apprentice' style reality show election

[lostalex]

I don't see what this has to do with David Cameron (or nick clegg)... Did not most of this happen under Labour's "rule"? This has been going on for quite some time.

This is a problem with Scotland Yard, not the government. It's not Cameron's job to catch criminals, it's Scotland Yard's job, right?

Cameron/Parliment make the laws, it's Scotland Yard's job to enforce them.

[Ammi]

i don't see what this has to do with david cameron (or nick clegg)... did not most of this happen under Labour's "rule"? this has been going on for quite some time.

Thats the point, just another inherited corruption surprise, surprise. But he is been judged on how he handles it, because that goes with the job........unfortunately for Cameron these dilemmas he is being faced with may just require showing some balls and you can't show what you havn't got

[lostalex]

Thats the point, just another inherited corruption surprise, surprise. But he is been judged on how he handles it, because that goes with the job........unfortunately for Cameron these dilemmas he is being faced with may just require showing some balls and you can't show what you havn't got


Well it's hard to show balls when the british public castrates all of it's politicians long before they reach any positions of power...

Say what you will about American, or Italian, or Russian politicians, but they arn't castrated.

[joeysteele]

Well yes, this did happen under Labours rule but they did have an inquiry and there was also a police investigation, the problem there was that the police found little to answer as to it, one Journalist was jailed and the police afterwards refused to re-open any investigations as they said no new evidence had been forthcoming, it appears they didn't even look for any at the time now though.

So Labour had an inquiry and police investigation, suggested another but then took the police at their word that no further case was to answer, the police for their part took Murdochs News of the World at their word too that it was all down to a rogue journalist.

Where Labour failed and did so badly was then not to take a stronger look at the press and how they work, thereby also taking no further action at all despite the rumblings from some quarters, John Prescott,their own MP for one.

Since the police were satisfied,so wrongly were the Labour govt. and hence it was shelved/closed because people believed there was no new evidence,which of course has been revealed now that the police had plenty of new evidence but for some reason at that time would not re-investigate.

The matter as to Cameron and this scandal, is that he appointed someone to an important post, knowing there were doubts over him, he was advised by many people not to appoint him,he did, this puts him in this issue also as to what he know, what he asked, what was he told, when he was told, what he ignored and what he may even have ignored that could have been very relevant.
It is likely we will have to wait for whatever happens with Andy Coulson before we get the answers to all those things.

Once a PMs judgement is questioned though, he has to answer quickly and with credibility, Cameron has skirted the issues and that is why such a focus remains on him.
He is running the Country, if his judgement is not proven to be sound, that is worrying for all.

Both Conservative and Labour have courted the Murdoch empire, mainly Tony Blair who actually won him over,really the Sun never supported Labour and neither did Murdoch, they supported Blair only, once he went as PM they reverted back to the Conservatives but both parties are to blame for the rpess getting out of hand, they wanted to be seen to be supported by the Murdoch press and thereby let things slide badly.
The chickens have now come home to roost and things hpefully will change now dramatically as to the press and politicians.

It is however again the vagueness with which Cameron talks as to the press and any new regulations, he has to make a major stand now against the Murdoch empire.H ehas to pull all stops out and be seen to pull all stops out and therefore being on his publics side to stop any way he can the BSkyB takeover fully by Murdoch.

As for Nick Clegg,well he is in effect an irrelevance as to decent politics too, but he and his party keep this govt. in power and if they were to see their party getting any further tarnished by this scandal then Clegg could pull the rug fully from under Cameron's feet and withdraw from the coalition which certainly would mean the end of this govt and after the ensuing election the end of Cameron too.

In many ways I bet Caemron has the thought that he wished he hadn't won the most seats in the last election now but he has to completely distance himself and hold back nothing as to Coulson, Brookes and the Murdoch empire if he is to have any chance of regaining any credibility.
Once credibility is lost, it rarely comes back, Gordon Brown was a useless PM, he found out what happened when you lose crediblity,he like Cameron is not a bad or uncaring man but when you take on the most important job in the UK, the buck stops with you and when it's a nasty buck like this scandal,where you are is a very lonely place indeed.

[lostalex]

^That is obnoxious.

This is a forum not a blog dude. srsly.

[joeysteele]

^That is obnoxious.

This is a forum not a blog dude. srsly.

I regret you found my post obnoxious lostalex,I can only apologise to you.
I have not as yet so far in life acquired the talent of being able to say a lot in a little. I can only say I will attempt to do better.This is a topic that covers a lot of issues though.

Again my apologies,I know I go on a lot, too much really, I get into bother at Uni in my work for that all the time.:joker:

[lostalex]

I regret you found my post obnoxious lostalex,I can only apologise to you.
I have not as yet so far in life acquired the talent of being able to say a lot in a little. I can only say I will attempt to do better.This is a topic that covers a lot of issues though.

Again my apologies,I know I go on a lot, too much really, I get into bother at Uni in my work for that all the time.:joker:


No worries. I respect the fact that we all communicate in different ways. You just happen to be naturally verbose i guess. But definitely on a forum, when you're meant to be discussing ideas in more of a conversational tone, posting long essays like that can definitely disrupt the rhythm of the conversation.

[Livia]

I regret you found my post obnoxious lostalex,I can only apologise to you.
I have not as yet so far in life acquired the talent of being able to say a lot in a little. I can only say I will attempt to do better.This is a topic that covers a lot of issues though.

Again my apologies,I know I go on a lot, too much really, I get into bother at Uni in my work for that all the time.:joker:

You had a lot to say and you said it eloquently. You are always willing to hear both sides of an argument and I have never seen you insult anyone, ever. You have nothing to apologise for.

[joeysteele]

You had a lot to say and you said it eloquently. You are always willing to hear both sides of an argument and I have never seen you insult anyone, ever. You have nothing to apologise for.

You are an amazing person Livia, thank you, I always respect your comments and greatly appreciate what you said above.

I did have a lot to say, still have, so I guess it's a good thing I didn't go on.As you know I also have a massive interest in politics anyway.
If I ever become a candidate in an election, heaven help who I am standing against, if we had to share a rostrum,they'd likely need their pillows with them.:joker:
Thank you very much again.

[arista]

^That is obnoxious.

This is a forum not a blog dude. srsly.




No we all like Joey who is Young
to give us his views.



He is a Bright Lad.


Feel The Force

[lostalex]

No we all like Joey who is Young
to give us his views.



He is a Bright Lad.


Feel The Force

way to pile on dude. stay classy.

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14137972

Nick Robinson :

David Cameron has had a major scare. Until today he has looked under the spell of events rather than in control of them. He has, however, now done all of what has been asked of him.

The dangers for him, though, are far from over - although today's announcements may take some of the immediate pressure off him the questions about his appointment of Andy Coulson and his relationships with the Murdochs and their lieutenants will mean that life remains very uncomfortable.

Good ..... :thumbs2:

[joeysteele]

I better keep this short after comments above.

I think he has swerved away from any danger to his status,I also think the dropping of the bid for full control by Murdoch for BSkyB will also help him.

He seems to have grasped the urgency to not only be doing something but being seen to be doing something which is strong and relevant.
It likely had to be, but because he has included Miliband and obviously the other one,Clegg, in things he has made it near impossible for them to criticise his efforts now.

What comes out will be the main test though, and if Andy Coulson is in very hot water on this issue then the clouds are still there over Cameron.
Personally I doubt there will be any challenge now against him until at least after the next election now.(Unless the Lib Dems jumped ship).

[arista]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/7/12/1310505570674/Steve-Bell-13.07.2011-001.jpg

[bbfan1991]

No, Cameron should never have appointed Coulson and he realises that mistake now but he obviously belived the man could do a good job?

The news have been bringing up Rebekah Brooks' links to Gordon Brown and Labour before as the newspapers obviously support different political parties so swings and roundabouts...

[Omah]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2015573/Rebekah-Brooks-vetoed-BBC-man-told-Cameron-No10-job-Andy-Coulson.html#ixzz1SJIvhEFy

Disgraced former News International boss Rebekah Brooks intervened to persuade David Cameron to make ex-News of the World editor Andy Coulson his spin doctor, it was claimed last night.

She is understood to have urged Mr Cameron to scrap plans to give the job to a senior BBC journalist. Mr Cameron was told it should go to someone who was ‘acceptable’ to News International.

It follows the revelation that Mr Coulson stayed at the Prime Minister’s country residence, Chequers, two months after he was forced to quit as Downing Street’s head of communications over the phone-hacking scandal.

Mr Cameron had been on the brink of appointing the BBC’s Guto Harri as his media chief when he was Opposition leader. Mr Harri and his family spent a weekend with the Camerons in 2007 to discuss the job offer.

However, it went to Mr Coulson after Mrs Brooks got involved, according to sources in the Tory party and at News International.

She is said to have told Mr Cameron that the post should go to Mr Coulson to strengthen links between the Tories and News International. He had resigned a few months earlier as News of the World editor over the phone-hacking storm.

What Rebekah wants, Rebekah gets ..... ;)

[joeysteele]

If that article is proven to be correct fully, David Cameron will have a lot of tricky questions to answer on that one.

There are now so many twists to this and it is likely to run for years too according to reports. Let's see what next week brings out.

[Omah]

If that article is proven to be correct fully, David Cameron will have a lot of tricky questions to answer on that one.

There are now so many twists to this and it is likely to run for years too according to reports. Let's see what next week brings out.

Yeah, every day there's something else ..... ;)

[joeysteele]

Yeah, every day there's something else ..... ;)

Also the Police investigations, what was it they said, they had almost 4000 referrals and have so far only got through 170 of them, thiat investigation is going to take ages.

A massive mess this is and on Tuesday it's clear we are not going to learn too much from Brookes and the Murdochs since they will be (sadly rightfully) able to hide behind not answering by saying they cannot answer questions because of the ongoing Police investigations.

[Omah]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/cristinaodone/100097273/camerons-in-peril-%E2%80%93-and-the-lib-dems-are-rubbing-their-hands-in-glee/

By Cristina Odone

The head count is scary, not so much because of the numbers involved, but because of the names: Sir Paul Stephenson, Rebekah Brooks, Les Hinton, Andy Coulson… the casualties of the News International scandal are getting more important every day.

But while everyone around them loses their heads, guess who’s sitting pretty in a corner? The Lib Dems are rubbing their hands in glee at the spectacle of their Coalition “partners” (a term that doesn’t quite capture the venomous nature of a marriage more akin to Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf? than Sam-n-Cam) trembling in fear. So the Tory boys got too close to the Evil Empire, did they? Now they’re paying the price! Cameron was courting Rupert and riding with Rebekah, and – whoa! – he got his fingers burnt. In fact, he stands to risk more than his fingers. But the Lib Dems won’t lift a finger to help the OE who has been lording it over them for more than a year.

Look at Vince Cable these days. He’s practically skipping down Downing Street: he suffered bitter humiliation when he boasted about how he would fix Murdoch, and see off the mogul’s bid for BSkyB; but that was then, in the days before the great purge, when Murdoch sneezed and British establishment caught a cold. No longer: events have vindicated our Vince. Look at Nick Clegg. Until recently, poor old Clegg had been the scapegoat of every anti-cut demonstrator, the butt of every anti-Coalition joke. He limped behind his Master Cameron, and hung about sheepishly, waiting for his cue. No longer: Clegg has let it be known that he’d warned Cameron about Coulson. He’s shown himself to be a round-head and not a cavalier when it came to dealings with Fleet Street.

Hold on a second, though. It’s easy to play the clean-hands hero when temptation never came your way. Let’s face it, the Lib Dems never got down and dirty with Murdoch’s people because Murdoch’s people never bothered with them. The third party was so beneath the parapet, the only Lib Demmer a News of the World reader would have known was Paddy Ashdown.

Sad, but true ..... :laugh2:

[joeysteele]

If this gets closer to the Govt, then I really can see the Lib Dems taking it as an opportunity to withdraw from the coalition, they and their members especially will be really concerned at being seen as getting embroiled in this scandal.

However and I don't think this can happen, they will need to see Cameron and the Conservatives go down in the polls. I cannot see the Conservatives going below 33% so I don't see any danger yet for Cameron but the storm clouds are there.

Where all this ends is beyond prediction, anything could happen yet.

[Omah]

If this gets closer to the Govt, then I really can see the Lib Dems taking it as an opportunity to withdraw from the coalition, they and their members especially will be really concerned at being seen as getting embroiled in this scandal.

However and I don't think this can happen, they will need to see Cameron and the Conservatives go down in the polls. I cannot see the Conservatives going below 33% so I don't see any danger yet for Cameron but the storm clouds are there.

Where all this ends is beyond prediction, anything could happen yet.

..... and probably will - watch this space ..... :idc:

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14181344

Prime Minister David Cameron is facing renewed questions over the phone-hacking scandal after the head of the Metropolitan Police resigned.

Sir Paul Stephenson was criticised for hiring ex-News of the World executive Neil Wallis as an adviser.

Sir Paul said his integrity was intact, but referred to the PM's former aide Andy Coulson. The ex-NoW editor and Mr Wallis have been questioned by police.

The PM said the Met Police's inquiry must go "wherever the evidence leads".

He made the comments at a press conference in South Africa, where he is currently on a trade visit aimed at boosting dealings with emerging African economies.

The prime minister has cut the trip from five days to two amid the continuing phone-hacking scandal.

During the press conference, Mr Cameron was asked about the difference between him employing former NoW editor Mr Coulson as his director of communications and the Met's employment of Mr Wallis as a public relations adviser.

The prime minister said: "I don't believe the two situations are the same in any shape or form.

"In terms of Andy Coulson, no-one has argued that the work he did in government in any way was inappropriate or bad. He worked well in government and then left government.

"There is a contrast with the situation at the Metropolitan Police where, clearly, the issues have been around whether or not the investigation is being pursued properly."

Ah, smell the bullsh ..... spin ..... :spin:

:joker:

[joeysteele]

Well David Cameron knew Brookes and the Murdochs were going to the committe on Tuesday so he knew questions would need to be asked on that.

Maybe he was unwise to go on this trip but its good he is cutting it short.He cannot leave Dopey Clegg to deal with this one, unless he wants it to massively explode.

He's in a sticky position is the PM on this one, people who are falling themselves if they know anything damaging are likely to turn on him.

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14183281

1155:

A new list of Prime Minister David Cameron's contacts with senior media figures will be released later after some "omissions" were identified, a Downing Street spokeswoman says.

"omissions" - how did that come about, then ..... :rolleyes:

[Livia]

I hope we're also going to see a list of contacts from Labour? And the LibDems of course. And good luck with any of their press offices offering up every bit of information they have.

The more David Cameron is pointed at, the less Ruper Murdock and Rebekah Brookes is pointed at. So let's not forget who's actually to blame.

[joeysteele]

I hope we're also going to see a list of contacts from Labour? And the LibDems of course. And good luck with any of their press offices offering up every bit of information they have.

The more David Cameron is pointed at, the less Ruper Murdock and Rebekah Brookes is pointed at. So let's not forget who's actually to blame.

Lib Dems, the whiter than white and oh so saintly party, they cannot possibly have any problem on this one. Or could they?

Labour,yes, while they had the support of the Murdoch press particularly, they were loathe to take on any changes or lose any main contact with them. Particularly Mr. Blair who is still held in high regard by the Murdochs.For what??

I feel a bit sorry for Cameron on this one,as I felt a bit sorry for Brown on the expenses scandal too.
Definately the attention should be in the main directed at the Murdoch's and Rebekah Brookes.

[Omah]

I hope we're also going to see a list of contacts from Labour? And the LibDems of course. And good luck with any of their press offices offering up every bit of information they have.

The more David Cameron is pointed at, the less Ruper Murdock and Rebekah Brookes is pointed at. So let's not forget who's actually to blame.

The buck's gotta stop somewhere - the PM, the CEO and the MPC are the people in charge ..... ;)

[joeysteele]

I personally don't think this should bring down the PM but it seems a lot of people and even the media are starting to turn on him now saying he has lots of questions to answer.

He may end up as beinfg seen too close to the conflict to keep any main distance from it,he is the PM and has to be able to credibly from distance inform and help deal with this, if he is to be brought into what Coulson, knew, what Coulson said to him and therefore what he then knew too,then the storm clouds will really gather.

I don't now think anyone can say for certain where this is going or how it will end but the big names falling like flies indicates far more serious issues still to be made known. Where the PM fits into it all will determine his future.

[Zippy]

OK Im getting tired of so many people losing their jobs over this. Most of them innocent.

Its getting ridiculous and seems to have moved on from being about the Dowlers and more about opportunists grappling for power.

I dont believe for a second that Cameron condoned this hacking of the Dowlers or anybody else so no way should he be yet another victim of this OTT drama. TBH Im so bored of hearing the word hacking. Just get the people who directly did it and punish them ffs.

[Omah]

OK Im getting tired of so many people losing their jobs over this. Most of them innocent.

Its getting ridiculous and seems to have moved on from being about the Dowlers and more about opportunists grappling for power.

I dont believe for a second that Cameron condoned this hacking of the Dowlers or anybody else so no way should he be yet another victim of this OTT drama. TBH Im so bored of hearing the word hacking. Just get the people who directly did it and punish them ffs.

I believe that the complex ramifications of the case may be eluding you ..... ;)

In effect, you semm to be saying shoot the soldiers and let the generals go free ..... :shocked:

Presumably, you would claim that Hitler was an innocent party in WWII ..... :rolleyes:

[Zippy]

I believe that the complex ramifications of the case may be eluding you ..... ;)

In effect, you semm to be saying shoot the soldiers and let the generals go free ..... :shocked:

oh ffs give it a rest with your "you don't get it, but I do" BS.

The prime minister doesnt order people to hack the phones of missing children. I know that much.

[Omah]

oh ffs give it a rest with your "you don't get it, but I do" BS.

The prime minister doesnt order people to hack the phones of missing children.

But he knows someone who does ..... :laugh3:

[Zippy]

But he knows someone who does ..... :laugh3:

well I start from the premise that all politicians are selfish corrupt bitches so really you have to accept that no PM is perfect or without dodgy connections. Lets get real.

Im baffled as to why so many are shocked at the notion of journalists and politicians using underhand, unscrupulous tactics to get secret information. Its always been that way.

[joeysteele]

But he knows someone who does ..... :laugh3:

Good response Omah.

Obviously I don't believe for one moment that the PM knew about phone hacking at the time, but as you say he certainly knows someone who does and if it turns out the PM knew more when he employed Coulson, then he is in (morally) deep water for not revealing all he knew and more to the point not getting rid of Coulson the moment he knew of anything.

I would say just about all the people around me at present and those I hear talking on this are furious at what's been going on. So I would say the majority of people are wanting to know all and everything as it becomes known.
Even as Livia said above, MPs,partcularly one she works close to, are being inundated with the queries and anger from the public about this issue,in person, via mail,e mail and phone.

[Zippy]

I think the public are just bored at this point.

[Omah]

I think the public are just bored at this point.

I think some of the public may well be, but others have a more diligent approach ..... :idc:

[Zippy]

I think some of the public may well be, but others have a more diligent approach ..... :idc:

then there's the likes of you who just seem to thrive on gossip and scandal.

[arista]

then there's the likes of you who just seem to thrive on gossip and scandal.




This is all in hand and being Dealt with,
Robot Milliboy has nothing else to do than go on and on
like a demented drone
about this.


But all this went down under Stinking New Labour.



And this Nation is so bored with this
we have more important problems.

[arista]

I think the public are just bored at this point.



Yes pointed out on ITV1's Loose Women
today.

[Omah]

then there's the likes of you who just seem to thrive on gossip and scandal.

Please don't make personal attacks ..... :nono:

[Zippy]

Yes pointed out on ITV1's Loose Women
today.
:joker:

well I thought it first
Please don't make personal attacks ..... :nono:

oh please. Youve posted about 798 Jordan/Andre threads before. Reading rags, mags and blogs seems to be your full time occupation.

[Omah]

:joker:

well I thought it first


oh please. Youve posted about 798 Jordan/Andre threads before. Reading rags, mags and blogs seems to be your full time occupation.

Oh dear ...... the irony of being accused of celebrity preoccupation in a political scandal thread - you do seem to be somewhat confused ..... :laugh2:

[Zippy]

Oh dear ...... the irony of being accused of celebrity preoccupation in a polical scandal thread - you do seem to be somehat confused ..... :laugh2:

point is you're a proven gossip-monger. Pretending to be all about upstanding morality and integrity.

People like you are so giddy with excitement at the prospect of a mighty leader being toppled that you can't see that this is just distracting from a whole wealth of serious issues that he needs to be urgently dealing with.

Talk about not being able to see the wood for the trees.

[Omah]

People like you are so giddy with excitement at the prospect of a mighty leader being toppled that you can't see that this is just distracting from a whole wealth of serious issues that he needs to be urgently dealing with.


Oh dear, you are so set on being personal, that you just can't see the big picture, can you ..... :pat:

[Omah]

James Landale Deputy Political Editor, BBC News, with the PM in Africa

When the allegations first emerged that murdered schoolgirl Millie Dowler's phone had been hacked, David Cameron was in Afghanistan and just about to begin the long flight home when the news came through.

The travelling team of officials and journalists were then trapped, effectively incommunicado for 12 hours, since the military are very nervous about the use of mobile phones and Blackberries on their aircraft; such devices tend to switch things on which should not be switched on at 20,000 feet.

It is little wonder that Downing Street was off the pace.

Twelve days on, as the phone hacking controversy continues to rage and destroy careers and reputations at quite astonishing speed, the prime minister is once again overseas, this time in South Africa, banging the drum for British business.

Instead of listening to the prime minister address local business leaders here, his officials can be seen huddling outside around an Ipad listening to BBC Radio 4's World at One or the News Channel.

Just as Assistant Commissioner Yates was issuing his statement, Mr Cameron was sipping tea with Desmond Tutu in a leafy suburb of Johannesburg that was once a meeting place of the armed wing of the ANC.

Some Tory MPs are nervous.

They think Mr Cameron's trips have left him slow to respond to fast-paced developments as the crisis has evolved - however good the communications, it is always difficult for a politician to judge the mood of a crisis back home.

So Mr Cameron has chosen to compromise. He has already scaled back this trip from four days to just two - and is now expected to cut it back further.
The balance he is trying to strike is to be in touch with the crisis but not distracted from other duties.

And not everyone thinks he getting the balance right. Once again, the reality of government is getting in the way of the duck and dive of politics.

C4 have, thoughtfully, provided Phone-Hacking: Connections Of The Key Players (http://www.channel4.com/news/phone-hacking-connections-of-the-key-players) for busy people, like Mr Cameron .... ;)

[joeysteele]

Loose Women, who takes any notice of what's said on that programme, it's the worst thing on TV.

I got and would be very bored at the topics they go on about all the time.Politics is life and affects the vast majority of people if not all of them in some way,this is the biggest story in media and politics since the expenses scandal.

I will stick with avidly following the developments of this issue rather than take any notice of the tripe included on the Loose Women show.

[Zippy]

Oh dear, you are so set on being personal, that you just can't see the big picture, can you ..... :pat:

you're the one who needs to look at the bigger picture, love. If you can put the gossip rags down for 2 minutes.

The bigger picture being that he was elected to run the country and not to be distracted or toppled by unsubstantiated accusations. Because him resigning and spending weeks finding a new PM is great for this countries major problems, right?

[Omah]

Loose Women, who takes any notice of what's said on that programme, it's the worst thing on TV.

I got and would be very bored at the topics they go on about all the time.Politics is life and affects the vast majority of people if not all of them in some way,this is the biggest story in media and politics since the expenses scandal.

I will stick with avidly following the developments of this issue rather than take any notice of the tripe included on the Loose Women show.

Yeah, the issues and ramifications of criminality within the so-called "ruling elite" are getting very near the top of the heap ..... ;)

[Omah]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/most-popular/headlines/2011/07/19/phone-hacking-panicked-david-cameron-flies-home-amid-questions-about-future-115875-23280878/#ixzz1SVeCTxG5

A PANICKED David Cameron was yesterday forced to abandon his trip to Africa as the phone-hacking furore threatened to engulf his administration.

The crisis deepened when the Tory Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, replied “that is a matter for No10” when asked if the PM could resign.

The lack of support from a senior ally came as Mr Cameron was accused of blundering by going to Africa instead of staying in the UK to deal with the crisis and as it emerged that Rebecca Brooks was at his 44th birthday party last October.

Her presence was left off a list of meetings between the PM and media figures published by Downing Street last week, which blamed the omission on “administrative errors”.

The rattled PM decided to abandon the African trade mission after agreeing to Ed Miliband’s demand for an emergency session of Parliament tomorrow.

In a sign of mounting panic, No10 cut the visit from four days to two, then cut it further so he can return this evening instead of Wednesday morning.

Labour leader Ed Miliband piled the pressure on the Premier : “Tomorrow we will have some of the most important select committee hearings in modern times.”

He added: “It is of great concern that the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police was unable to discuss vital issues with the Prime Minister because he felt that David Cameron was compromised on this issue because of Andy Coulson.

“It is also striking that Sir Paul Stephenson has taken responsibility and resigned over the employment of Mr Coulson’s deputy, while the Prime Minister hasn’t even apologised for hiring Mr Coulson.

“We need leadership to get to the truth. But David Cameron is hamstrung by his own decisions and his unwillingness to face them.”

Some of these “administrative errors” are a bit fortuitous ..... :joker:

[Omah]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cameron-flies-in-as-further-meeting-with-brooks-emerges-2315876.html

Downing Street's attempt to get on top of the scandal on Friday by publishing a full list of contacts between Mr Cameron and senior News International executives had to be revised yesterday after it emerged that they had left off a key social meeting between the Prime Minister and Ms Brooks.

The list revealed that Mr Cameron had met Ms Brooks four times since he became Prime Minister – but officials said yesterday the birthday party was not on the list because it had only just been recalled that she was present.

Yeah, with flame-red hair, she's a bit of a wall-flower ..... :joker:

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14193124

1040:

Bookmakers William Hill are offering odds of 16/1 about "under pressure" PM David Cameron being out of office by the weekend.

1041:

London Mayor Boris Johnson, at 4/1, is favourite to replace him as permanent leader of the Conservative Party

:laugh2:

[joeysteele]

Boris Johnson would love to be leader fo the Conservative party but it's not going to happen.

I can't see enough in place to make David Cameron think he should stand down, but if the focus stays on him with this intensity, his party will get very restless towrds him,even more than a fair few are now.
The party conferences are going to be likely interesting with all this going on especially the Lib Dem one as they are bound by what their conference insists they do.

[Omah]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cba8a85a-b208-11e0-a06c-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz1SagagzzX

By George Parker in London and Jim Pickard in Lagos

David Cameron will on Wednesday face his biggest parliamentary test since becoming Britain’s prime minister, as he attempts to extricate himself from the phone hacking scandal and his dangerous liaison with Rupert Murdoch’s media empire.

Mr Cameron flew back from a trip to Africa on Tuesday night with aides insisting that suggestions he might resign over the affair were “ridiculous”. He will give a statement on the government’s response to the scandal to MPs on Wednesday.

While Mr Cameron was in mid-air, Rupert Murdoch was giving lawmakers on the House of Commons culture committee a fascinating insight into his relationship with the prime minister and the sensitivity that surrounded it.

Mr Murdoch’s newspapers backed Mr Cameron in the 2010 election and the media tycoon was rewarded by being invited into 10 Downing St for “a cup of tea” within hours of the prime minister taking office.

“I was asked if I would please come through the backdoor,” Mr Murdoch said, explaining that Mr Cameron did not want him to be photographed entering the building. “I just did what I was told.”

Mr Cameron’s intense links with Mr Murdoch and his media group have caused him huge embarrassment but so far there have been only sporadic calls from a handful of Labour MPs for him to resign. “It’s absolute nonsense,” said Amber Rudd, a Conservative member of parliament. “Of course he won’t resign.”

The prime minister has acknowledged that he was part of a political culture of complicity with Mr Murdoch, which allowed him to exert huge influence over the national debate without little fear of politicians holding him to account.

Labour MPs are looking forward to his "statement" and will partake of hearty Parliamentary breakfasts and (possibly) liquid lunches before the fray ..... :joker:

[joeysteele]

Well in truth, had The Sun and News of the World continued to support Labour in the last election and had Labour won enough seats to form the govt even as a coalition then they too would have continued to court the Murdochs.

However the question mark that was, is and always will be until the end of this saga is the David Cameron appointment of Andy Coulson. It has turned out to be a massive error of judgement and if Coulson ends up with any criminal charges to answer,it will be even worse.

The fact the police investigation is likely to take 2 to 3 years to complete,means that this will be closing or just closed at the time of the next election and while I do not believe Cameron will fall because of this,I do believe he will be permanently politically damaged as a leader and will therefore probably lose the next election.

[Omah]

Well in truth, had The Sun and News of the World continued to support Labour in the last election and had Labour won enough seats to form the govt even as a coalition then they too would have continued to court the Murdochs.

However the question mark that was, is and always will be until the end of this saga is the David Cameron appointment of Andy Coulson. It has turned out to be a massive error of judgement and if Coulson ends up with any criminal charges to answer,it will be even worse.

The fact the police investigation is likely to take 2 to 3 years to complete,means that this will be closing or just closed at the time of the next election and while I do not believe Cameron will fall because of this,I do believe he will be permanently politically damaged as a leader and will therefore probably lose the next election.

Cameron has many more crises to face before the next election ..... ;

[joeysteele]

Cameron has many more crises to face before the next election ..... ;

I agree, you are right, and I cannot see him winning the next election, he didn't win the last one outright.

With all this going on,also the fact he allowed Miliband to take the first steps in this,then went along with all that was called for has tarnished him especially as to his judgement.

That happened too with Gordon Brown. I think economically his policies are not going to achieve what he hoped for too,certainly no way will the deficit be gone by 2015 as he insisited it would under his policies.
Then the Lib Dems, they will want to put great distance between them and the Conservatives to fight the next election.

I have no party allegiance, I like bits of all the main parties policies,(except now I will never likely trust the Lib Dems words again), I really feel sorry for Cameron on this, he is virtually in a no win situation,no matter what he now says and does.

[Omah]

0914:

The build-up to David Cameron's statement to the Commons at around 1130 BST continues. Labour MP Chris Bryant is giving an interview to the BBC's Laura Kuenssberg outside Parliament.

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14214197

1136:

David Cameron is on his feet in the Commons - here comes his statement

1139:

The PM outlines his action plan. He says he has a well-led police investigatiion and a wide ranging judicial inquiry to establish what went wrong to ensure it never happens again.

1142:

Mr Cameron says the inquiry should consider "not just the relationship betwen the press, police and politicians, but their individual conduct too". He says it will also look at broadcasters and social media to see if there is any evidence they have been involved in criminal activities.

1145:

Mr Cameron says police corruption must be rooted out. He says the police "should pursue the evidence wherever it leads and arrest exactly who they wish, and that is exactly what they have done".

1146:

This public inquiry will be as robust as possible, fully independent and Lord Justice Leverson will be able to call witnesses as he wishes, Mr Cameron says.


He talks the talk but can he walk the walk ?

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14214197

1237:

A quick round-up of the main points from David Cameron:

With hindsight, he would not have hired Andy Coulson as communications chief
Mr Coulson is innocent until proven guilty
He was unaware of any advice given to Mr Coulson by former News of the World deputy editor Neil Wallis
The meetings with News International broke no rules
Staff acted properly in turning down a police briefing about the hacking scandal


1249:

A reminder of Labour leader Ed Miliband's arguments:

The PM ignored damning information about Andy Coulson on at least five occasions
No 10 refused a police briefing because the PM was compromised by his relationship with Mr Coulson
The PM is guilty of deliberate attempt to "hide from the facts" about Mr Coulson
Mr Cameron's conflict of interest led to resignation of Met Police chief Sir Paul Stephenson
Sir Paul felt telling No 10 about hiring ex-News of the World deputy editor Neil Wallis would have compromised the PM

[joeysteele]

I have watched this today and still am with many friends,what I am finding is that those who have Labour leanings don't think Cameron will fall over this. However, those who are Conservatives are more against him then the others are.

It would seem to me that the Conservatives see Cameron as a loser,maybe also that's why Labour supporters want him to stay on and survive.

I wish he would just end the hullabaloo as to Coulson and just say yes, he made a mistake. Many people just don't get this, if he has lied,if he has done anything wrong as to hacking and knew about it then Cameron will say sorry.
As with the Murdochs, people want to hear humility and apologies for this chaos from all concerned. They don't want to be made to wait for that either.

I feel for Cameron, you pay a heavy price for loyalty in politics, he feels he has some loyalty still to Coulson but his association with him will I think bring electoral defeat at the next election.
We claim that we hate the brutality and coldness of politics and politicians.
Then when someone like Cameron holds on to his loyalty to someone,even now with a cloud over him but not convicted, then we want the brutality of politics to take over again.

Yeah, I feel sorry for Cameron on this one, I'd stand by a friend.