Who are the Norwegians praying to?

[Crimson Dynamo]

The church services, the candle lighting, the shrines


Are they praying to the god who did nothing on Friday?

[Livia]

Hey LT, nice to see ya.

I don't know much about the way God - if she exists - thinks. But I imagine that if you're a Christian (or a Jew or whatever...) you will believe what it says in the Bible. The Bible says that there is evil in the world that isn't of God's making.

[InOne]

God gave man free will

[Crimson Dynamo]

God gave man free will

So what does he actually do, why pray to him/her?

Surely an all powerful god can give free will and intervene at times to stop abject cruelty?

or indeed do anything at all, i mean he can only get 5% of this country to church for 1 hour a week.

I would not hire him if i were in the god business

[Crimson Dynamo]

Hey LT, nice to see ya.

I don't know much about the way God - if she exists - thinks. But I imagine that if you're a Christian (or a Jew or whatever...) you will believe what it says in the Bible. The Bible says that there is evil in the world that isn't of God's making.

the bible says that all things on earth were made by god.

[InOne]

So what does he actually do, why pray to him/her?

Surely an all powerful god can give free will and intervene at times to stop abject cruelty?

or indeed do anything at all, i mean he can only get 5% of this country to church for 1 hour a week.

I would not hire him if i were in the god business

Going by the bible God is a sadist and enjoys watching people suffer

[Crimson Dynamo]

Going by the bible God is a sadist and enjoys watching people suffer

amen

I just find it incredible that these evil priests and ministers can have the bare cheek to conduct memorial services and no one in the press bats an eyelid

[Livia]

the bible says that all things on earth were made by god.

According to the Bible, Lucifer started out his career as an archangel made by God. One third of all angels fell into sin and became demons. Not everything that was [claimed in the Bible to have been] made by God is good and never becomes tainted.

People just need comfort. I don't think now is the right time to hit them with your opinion that God doesn't exist. People are comforted by their religion.

[Livia]

Going by the bible God is a sadist and enjoys watching people suffer

As far as I can see, there is only one person responsible for the atrocity in Norway, and that wasn't God. People who don't believe in God never want to thank him for good things, but are always ready to blame him for bad things.

[Crimson Dynamo]

According to the Bible, Lucifer started out his career as an archangel made by God. One third of all angels fell into sin and became demons. Not everything that was [claimed in the Bible to have been] made by God is good and never becomes tainted.

People just need comfort. I don't think now is the right time to hit them with your opinion that God doesn't exist. People are comforted by their religion.

there is scant comfort in lies. luckily 95% of Norway do not believe in gods.

[Crimson Dynamo]

As far as I can see, there is only one person responsible for the atrocity in Norway, and that wasn't God. People who don't believe in God never want to thank him for good things, but are always ready to blame him for bad things.

You could not thank him for anything as he appears to do nothing whatsoever.

the problem for religionists is that they want to praise him for all the good things but bury their collective heads in the sand for the bad. that is why you will not hear any religious leaders talking about this incident. I wish they would.

[Livia]

You could not thank him for anything as he appears to do nothing whatsoever.

the problem for religionists is that they want to praise him for all the good things but bury their collective heads in the sand for the bad. that is why you will not hear any religious leaders talking about this incident. I wish they would.

yeah well, like I said. Maybe save your criticism for the Devil. After all, if you believe in God, then you are duty bound to believe in the Devil.

You are a little ray of sunshine today, aren't you! :-)

[Crimson Dynamo]

yeah well, like I said. Maybe save your criticism for the Devil. After all, if you believe in God, then you are duty bound to believe in the Devil.

You are a little ray of sunshine today, aren't you! :-)

Yeah, the Devil. lol:devil:

Anyway how are you Livia?

[Livia]

Yeah, the Devil. lol:devil:

Anyway how are you Livia?

I'm fighting fit LT, How're you? And what have you done to Uma??

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm fighting fit LT, How're you? And what have you done to Uma??

dont look at her beard, its rude

[Livia]

You're a bad, bad man.

[InOne]

As far as I can see, there is only one person responsible for the atrocity in Norway, and that wasn't God. People who don't believe in God never want to thank him for good things, but are always ready to blame him for bad things.

I didn't say it was God, if you see my post earlier I said God gave man free will

[Crimson Dynamo]

I didn't say it was God, if you see my post earlier I said God gave man free will

On the whole i would say that giving man free will has been a bit of a cock up and he should be assessed in terms of eligibility for omnipotence.

i mean he is getting on a bit...

[InOne]

On the whole i would say that giving man free will has been a bit of a cock up and he should be assessed in terms of eligibility for omnipotence.

i mean he is getting on a bit...

It's just a nice excuse for why god lets people do bad things really lol

[lostalex]

When you love something you allow it freedom. God gives us all freedom. That doesn't mean he doesn't care.

If God didn't love us, then we'd all just be his puppets. The world might be nicer, and horrible things wouldn't happen, but we would be miserable slaves.

God doesn't create the horror in this world, we do.

[Livia]

I didn't say it was God, if you see my post earlier I said God gave man free will

Sorry InOne, I saw your comment about free will, I wasn't referring to your post.

[Crimson Dynamo]

When you love something you allow it freedom. God gives us all freedom. That doesn't mean he doesn't care.

If God didn't love us, then we'd all just be his puppets. The world might be nicer, and horrible things wouldn't happen, but we would be miserable slaves.

God doesn't create the horror in this world, we do.

Yes the puppets answer is the stock one but if you buy the god can do anything line and made everything then i am quite sure he could allow free will and stop needless suffering.

If you really loved something you would not let what happens in the world every day of every year.

That is just sick

[joeysteele]

I have no strong religious identity at all but from reading the Bible, it would seem Humankind was entrusted with the Earth,with total free will to do and choose between good and bad,right and wrong.

This is a bad comparison I know but it's a 'bit' like your Parents,they go off round the World out of contact and entrust their home and land to their Family.
In the time they have that free run of things, should the family ruin or destroy elements or all of the home and land,also should they get into battles and maybe harm or even kill another family member/s , Who is to blame for that? The Parents who entrusted their property,land and all else to them in their absence or the family who carried out and allowed to be carried out the destruction and harm?

I forget who said it, (I think Oliver Cromwell may have), but in despair or conflict everyone who believes,believes God (whatever,whoever any deity may be),is on their side. It may be pertinent to ask 'God must often wonder who is on his side'.

If faith and prayer helps to console in any way then that likely is a good thing.

The Earth though is a very beautiful place,Humans have full access and full running of it, if a mess is made of that surely the only people to blame are the people who cause harm and destruction to it and to their fellow humans from their free will and choice to do so.
Nothing to do with a God who gives the total freedom to choose good or bad, right or wrong.

[Marc]

I'm not a believer. I see this as a horrid case of somebody who was clearly mentally ill

It's sad :(

[Crimson Dynamo]

I have no strong religious identity at all but from reading the Bible, it would seem Humankind was entrusted with the Earth,with total free will to do and choose between good and bad,right and wrong.

This is a bad comparison I know but it's a 'bit' like your Parents,they go off round the World out of contact and entrust their home and land to their Family.
In the time they have that free run of things, should the family ruin or destroy elements or all of the home and land,also should they get into battles and maybe harm or even kill another family member/s , Who is to blame for that? The Parents who entrusted their property,land and all else to them in their absence or the family who carried out and allowed to be carried out the destruction and harm?

I forget who said it, (I think Oliver Cromwell may have), but in despair or conflict everyone who believes,believes God (whatever,whoever any deity may be),is on their side. It may be pertinent to ask 'God must often wonder who is on his side'.

If faith and prayer helps to console in any way then that likely is a good thing.

The Earth though is a very beautiful place,Humans have full access and full running of it, if a mess is made of that surely the only people to blame are the people who cause harm and destruction to it and to their fellow humans from their free will and choice to do so.
Nothing to do with a God who gives the total freedom to choose good or bad, right or wrong.


So what does god do?

he makes it and then nothing?


Its worse than a bad sci fi movie at best

[joeysteele]

So what does god do?

he makes it and then nothing?


Its worse than a bad sci fi movie at best

I can't answer that because I am not certain there is a God anyway.The Bible though states that as almost a yes,God takes a back seat,free will given totally to Humans to protect the World and all in it or to ruin it.

The vast majority would want to protect and nurture the Earth,a minority seem determined to destroy it.

The Bible adds that 'one' day the World will end, that will be when 'God' whoever or whatever they may be will then intervene and pick up the pieces.

It's a bit like the perfect in-laws and Parents, who are always there to listen as to problems or good times in a marriage but hold their tongues and never interfere,in that the couple have decided the path they are on,it's only if all goes horribly wrong in time that then those Parents are there to pick up the pieces.

As I said I have no major religious beliefs, I don't know,I was only pointing out what was in the Bible.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I can't answer that because I am not certain there is a God anyway.The Bible though states that as almost a yes,God takes a back seat,free will given totally to Humans to protect the World and all in it or to ruin it.

The vast majority would want to protect and nurture the Earth,a minority seem determined to destroy it.

The Bible adds that 'one' day the World will end, that will be when 'God' whoever or whatever they may be will then intervene and pick up the pieces.

It's a bit like the perfect in-laws and Parents, who are always there to listen as to problems or good times in a marriage but hold their tongues and never interfere,in that the couple have decided the path they are on,it's only if all goes horribly wrong in time that then those Parents are there to pick up the pieces.

As I said I have no major religious beliefs, I don't know,I was only pointing out what was in the Bible.

Your not certain there is a god?

What would even give you even the smallest inkling there was as there is and has never been the smallest iota of evidence?

[joeysteele]

Your not certain there is a god?

What would even give you even the smallest inkling there was as there is and has never been the smallest iota of evidence?

For goodness sake, I am not certain there is a God but I am not certain there is not a God either.

If you can prove to me here and now that there isn't one, fine.
The thing is we can hold a view there is, or not, or like most people there can be doubt on either side but it cannot be proven that there wasn't, isn't or always will be a God.

At the end of the day though as to this thread, if praying to a Deity helps people who have lost loved ones, then I see nothing wrong at all with that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

For goodness sake, I am not certain there is a God but I am not certain there is not a God either.

If you can prove to me here and now that there isn't one, fine.
The thing is we can hold a view there is, or not, or like most people there can be doubt on either side but it cannot be proven that there wasn't, isn't or always will be a God.

At the end of the day though as to this thread, if praying to a Deity helps people who have lost loved ones, then I see nothing wormg at all with that.

There is no need to prove the non existence of anything. Like unicorns, dragons, space monkeys, turd eskimo ninjas

Praying to a diety who we are told can so anything, crated everything including man and who loves us all dearly but sits back and lets this happen is sick and wrong and should not be encouraged.

read below for your amusement.

Let's agree that there is no empirical evidence showing that God exists.
If you think about it as a rational person, this lack of evidence is startling. There is not one bit of empirical evidence indicating that today's "God", nor any other contemporary god, nor any god of the past, exists. In addition we know that:

If we had scientific proof of God's existence, we would talk about the "science of God" rather than "faith in God".
If we had scientific proof of God's existence, the study of God would be a scientific endeavor rather than a theological one.
If we had scientific proof of God's existence, all religious people would be aligning on the God that had been scientifically proven to exist. Instead there are thousands of gods and religions.
The reason for this lack of evidence is easy for any unbiased observer to see. The reason why there is no empirical evidence for God is because God is imaginary.

http://godisimaginary.com/i11.htm

[Niamh.]

There is no need to prove the non existence of anything. Like unicorns, dragons, space monkeys, turd eskimo ninjas

Praying to a diety who we are told can so anything, crated everything including man and who loves us all dearly but sits back and lets this happen is sick and wrong and should not be encouraged.

read below for your amusement.

Let's agree that there is no empirical evidence showing that God exists.
If you think about it as a rational person, this lack of evidence is startling. There is not one bit of empirical evidence indicating that today's "God", nor any other contemporary god, nor any god of the past, exists. In addition we know that:

If we had scientific proof of God's existence, we would talk about the "science of God" rather than "faith in God".
If we had scientific proof of God's existence, the study of God would be a scientific endeavor rather than a theological one.
If we had scientific proof of God's existence, all religious people would be aligning on the God that had been scientifically proven to exist. Instead there are thousands of gods and religions.
The reason for this lack of evidence is easy for any unbiased observer to see. The reason why there is no empirical evidence for God is because God is imaginary.

http://godisimaginary.com/i11.htm

While I agree with most of your post, I suppose it comes down to the question "How are we here then" I know there's the big bang theory and all that but then you have to ask "Well where did the stuff that banged come from" etc etc.

[Livia]

There is no need to prove the non existence of anything. Like unicorns, dragons, space monkeys, turd eskimo ninjas etc. etc. etc................

http://godisimaginary.com/i11.htm

I watched My Name Is Earl last night, and The Crabman came out with something I felt was thought-provoking and profound. He said "In times of great stress, people give heightened significance to random acts of physics". Made me think of you LT... I thought you'd kind of like it.

[Niamh.]

I watched My Name Is Earl last night, and The Crabman came out with something I felt was thought-provoking and profound. He said "In times of great stress, people give heightened significance to random acts of physics". Made me think of you LT... I thought you'd kind of like it.

The Crabman is amazing :love:

[Livia]

The Crabman is amazing :love:

He's like a funky prophet.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I watched My Name Is Earl last night, and The Crabman came out with something I felt was thought-provoking and profound. He said "In times of great stress, people give heightened significance to random acts of physics". Made me think of you LT... I thought you'd kind of like it.

I like the true story of the plane in NY that was heading into the Hudson River. On one seat you have a jewish guy who is praying with his eyes closed and next to him is a guy reading the safety card about what to do if the plane crashes into water...

[Crimson Dynamo]

While I agree with most of your post, I suppose it comes down to the question "How are we here then" I know there's the big bang theory and all that but then you have to ask "Well where did the stuff that banged come from" etc etc.

It does not as it would be the wrong question to ask if you understand the big bang and to try and attribute an answer to some great god would be preposterous

[Livia]

I like the true story of the plane in NY that was heading into the Hudson River. On one seat you have a jewish guy who is praying with his eyes closed and next to him is a guy reading the safety card about what to do if the plane crashes into water...

Haha... excellent.

[Niamh.]

It does not as it would be the wrong question to ask if you understand the big bang and to try and attribute an answer to some great god would be preposterous

I don't understand the big bang theory at all but I'm assuming that there had to be something there for it to happen? Anyway, I was reading this book Shantaram and I loved the idea about God and life etc that he had in this book, here's a snippet of it :

"The universe," he continued, "this universe that we know, began in almost absolute simplicity, and it has been getting more complex for about fifteen billion years. In another billion years it will be still more complex than it is now. In five billion, in ten billion -- it is always getting more complex. It is moving toward...something. It is moving toward some kind of ultimate complexity. We might not get there. An atom of hydrogen might not get there, or a leaf, or a man, or a planet might not get there, to that ultimate complexity. But we are all moving towards it -- everything in the universe is moving towards it. And that final complexity, that thing we are all moving to, is what I choose to call God. If you don't like that word, God, call it the Ultimate Complexity. Whatever you call it, the whole universe is moving toward it."

I thought it was an interesting theory

[joeysteele]

There is no need to prove the non existence of anything. Like unicorns, dragons, space monkeys, turd eskimo ninjas

Praying to a diety who we are told can so anything, crated everything including man and who loves us all dearly but sits back and lets this happen is sick and wrong and should not be encouraged.

read below for your amusement.

Let's agree that there is no empirical evidence showing that God exists.
If you think about it as a rational person, this lack of evidence is startling. There is not one bit of empirical evidence indicating that today's "God", nor any other contemporary god, nor any god of the past, exists. In addition we know that:

If we had scientific proof of God's existence, we would talk about the "science of God" rather than "faith in God".
If we had scientific proof of God's existence, the study of God would be a scientific endeavor rather than a theological one.
If we had scientific proof of God's existence, all religious people would be aligning on the God that had been scientifically proven to exist. Instead there are thousands of gods and religions.
The reason for this lack of evidence is easy for any unbiased observer to see. The reason why there is no empirical evidence for God is because God is imaginary.

http://godisimaginary.com/i11.htm


I have to say, you are on form today LT, while I think what you say above does not in itself prove completely there has not been,is or always will be some being that is for want of a better word a 'God',what you list above does make a very strong case against there being so,I admit that.

[InOne]

Just wait till ExProximo gets his hands on this thread LT. He'll have a field day

[Crimson Dynamo]

Just wait till ExProximo gets his hands on this thread LT. He'll have a field day

Yes a 1000 word essay on diddly squat:joker:

cant wait


(but he does have the best avatar bar none, damn him)

[Redway]

Silly thread, IMO.

[Livia]

Silly thread, IMO.

The thread is provoking the discussion about whether or not God exists. It's an age-old question and hardly silly. Didn't you post a thread yesterday asking whether racists have a place in our society? now THAT'S a silly thread.

[Ammi]

I think praying is just a robot like reaction to the people who do believe in God. They really don't know what to do, there isn't anything they can do, so they pray, probably what they do in any crisis or faced with an atrocity like this. I don't suppose they even do know what they're praying for. Lots of people don't live in a world of reality they live in a world of faith, it opts them out of lots of things because their God makes all the decisions anyway. I'm not really criticising though, because having faith gives them strength and helps them get through bad stuff, different strokes...........and all that

[Ammi]

I like the true story of the plane in NY that was heading into the Hudson River. On one seat you have a jewish guy who is praying with his eyes closed and next to him is a guy reading the safety card about what to do if the plane crashes into water...

Ha good story, but the plane's going to crash anyway so I guess both are pointless, but maybe comforting and distracting to the people doing them:hugesmile:

[joeysteele]

I think praying is just a robot like reaction to the people who do believe in God. They really don't know what to do, there isn't anything they can do, so they pray, probably what they do in any crisis or faced with an atrocity like this. I don't suppose they even do know what they're praying for. Lots of people don't live in a world of reality they live in a world of faith, it opts them out of lots of things because their God makes all the decisions anyway. I'm not really criticising though, because having faith gives them strength and helps them get through bad stuff, different strokes...........and all that

Really good post rhino as is Livia's too. The last part as to faith and praying giving these people strength to cope with this, is a good thing,anything that helps in these tragedies is good.

[Ammi]

Really good post rhino as is Livia's too. The last part as to faith and praying giving these people strength to cope with this, is a good thing,anything that helps in these tragedies is good.

Yes Joey, mind you just because we believe in something, doesn't make it real:wink: