would you give a day's pay to help Africa ?

[waterhog]

would you give a day's pay to help Africa ?

empty your pockets,
calling is Africa,
people are dieing,
worst hit is Somalia.
forget comic relief,
that will not scrape,
the war lords are hungry,
they need to eat well to rape.
to shoot and kill,
gun's it dose require,
Britain is a supplier,
talk about add fuel to the fire.
year after year,
the problems will never erase,
because just like the propaganda of aid,
the givers are desperate for praise.
we need to go in,
set up and remove the cause,
feed the people in need,
unlike Iraqi, we will get applause.
10 years from now,
Africa will still be deceiving,
because from all round the world,
the help for the corruption they are receiving.

(i watched this debate on the wrightstuff debate this morning and i came to the conclusion that it dose not matter how much aid we give while they have a corrupt government help will never reach the people. is the joe being to hard and unkind on this issue ? or have i got a point ?)


ps can not wait for bb to start its soon lol

[King Gizzard]

If the government agreed to pay the same for every person that done it then yeah sure

[Pyramid*]

No. done so many time in the past - and still it continues so pouring money in is not a solution.

Harsh perhaps, but there it is.

[King Gizzard]

We could try get rid of these clueless idiots that run these countries, start with Mugabe..oh whats that? no oil? That's a no then!

[spitfire]

No.

[Pyramid*]

We could try get rid of these clueless idiots that run these countries, start with Mugabe..oh whats that? no oil? That's a no then!


Possibly sterilising the women after say 2 babies....that could be a start.

[ElProximo]

Convinced to stop contributing after some discussions with a former 'receiver' of Aid in Zimbabwe. He was part of the big well-known Christian charity on the Africa side of things and in his case teaching (and administration of food and about 20 other jobs hehe).

Anyways, I became convinced that donating to Africa is actually causing more harm than good.
I don't pretend I know a solution either. I just know that, good intentions aside, this seems to be backfiring and possibly what we do there contributes to never-ending strife and long-lasting political problems.

One possible solution worth considering:
Basically divide up large sections of Africa to be colonized. Drive all the inhabitants into a corner of Africa.
But you see what i mean is not really 'colonizing' but simply take the countries and evict everyone.
After about 20 years those countries would become modern '1st world' places.

I mean just a thought to consider.

[Pyramid*]

Amina Mohammed, 25, is nine months pregnant, due to give birth any day



Amina has four children, and also cares for two orphaned boys she picked up on her 15-day walk from Balhathawa in Somalia.

Surrounded by her children Shamsa, 6, Ahmed, 4, Abdi, 3, Abdinasir, 2, and orphaned brothers Abdinasir, 11, and Shire 7







About to give birth to her 5th child.

My heart breaks for the children being brought into the world by parents who cannot feed those that they already have, but yet, continue to breed like rabbits - and doing nothing but add to their own problems.

time to take stock. Time for a bit of 'If you can't help yourself..... why expect others to continually bail you out' attitude.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020938/Somalian-famine-Mother-conceals-childs-body-food-ration-starving-twin-sister.html#ixzz1Tm9fPJfF

[Livia]

It's hardly fair to castigate women, and surprising coming from a woman. Women have more babies in developing countries for a number of reasons; their culture, ignorance of contraception and the fact that women in those countries are largely powerless. For many of them it's not a choice to "breed like rabbits". Many of them have no control over their lives, no access to healthcare or education and a number of them die in childbirth, or from complications related to childbirth.

I would not give a day's pay to Africa. If only the money that has been so freely given in the past had reached those who need it most... but it hasn't. When they sort out the way the money is distributed and what it's spent on, I will give. I am not contributing to yet another private plane for an African despot.

[Pyramid*]

It's hardly fair to castigate women, and surprising coming from a woman. Women have more babies in developing countries for a number of reasons; their culture, ignorance of contraception and the fact that women in those countries are largely powerless. For many of them it's not a choice to "breed like rabbits". Many of them have no control over their lives, no access to healthcare or education and a number of them die in childbirth, or from complications related to childbirth.

I would not give a day's pay to Africa. If only the money that has been so freely given in the past had reached those who need it most... but it hasn't. When they sort out the way the money is distributed and what it's spent on, I will give. I am not contributing to yet another private plane for an African despot.


You think it surprising that one woman can see the failure to control birth rates in undeveloped countries with decades of famine behind them and should not suggest sterilisation after a woman has borne one or two children as a possible solution?

I'd call that an intelligent solution. Being a woman doesn't mean I have to share the desire to allow women to continue breeding and bringing more mouths into the world than they can already feed, clothe, etc.

The reason so many die in childbirth - or children die young is down to the very lifestyle they are living: in famine and destitution. Much of all that is connected would slow down and cease. It's long known that the usual methods of contraception are shunned. If they can't help themselves in some way.....

[joeysteele]

I am at Uni, if I was working then I would be willing to donate a days pay to help stop Children dying, they don't ask to be brought into the World and it is horrendous to me that Babies are being born anywhere to be left to starve to death as Children.

I have contributed to these causes in the past but I am tired of the same problem arising month after month,year after year.
There should be one main charity to focus on this issue, so that all resources are in one place. However to donate to this cause should demand that it goes 'directly' to those in need of it.
If it cannot get there then no, I would not be willing to donate more.

The argument in the current problem is that the Somalian rebels won't let aid through.
That being so then, really the other Nations around the area should ensure these rebels are despatched forthwith and that aid can get through to those who need it.No more funds going to the richest or politicians of these Countries to use for other purposes.

I hate to see the film of Children dying of starvation, however a lot more needs to be done to enforce strict regulation as to where aid goes, also the problem of continually having Children that cannot be fed should be stopped, if it's a Church issue,(such as contraception) on that then the Church needs to back off on that too or it then itself take on the task of feeding these Children born to die.

People are generous and genuinely I am sure the vast majority hate to think of any child dying for the want of food and medical help but all Nations need to ensure and show that all donated funds and aid does go 'directly' to those who need it and also those who do donate need to see the results of their contributions too.

[Vicky.]

Nope. It doesnt actually help.

[Boothy]

I prefer to save up a couple of thousand pound and go on one of those volunteer trips. At least then you know where your money's going.

[Lee.]

Yeah I would.

[Josy]

No I wouldn't.

[InOne]

Nah, not if I wasn't emotionally attached

[tmi]

I maybe shot in the the foot, but I think it would be better to educate these people about sexual education , I know it may be against they're religion . Women have numerous children and they have no way or means of educating ,
supporting them, if they should be handed out condoms it would stop the spread of Aids as well, these people have been having this problems for over 50 years , they need education to learn how to support themselves and the tools to do it. I would be willing to hand over a days pay if they could educate these people
of the above. We send all this aid and in another decade they will still be in the same boat, I think something has to be done , or sterilize them after 2 children. China have done this. The world be soon be over populated, ask the bigwigs in the banks to hand over half of they profits. It's funny how things turn out the bigwigs get they bounses but people in the banking sector losing jobs and people having they pensions cut, oh this country needs fixing as well, the banks caused the debt in the first place by handing out loans to people they probably knew couldnt afford it. My father once said look after the pennies and the pounds will take care of themselves.

[Harry!]

Only if I could see exactly where my money was going.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No

we should give no aid to africa or india or pakistan or any of the 3rd world

[Pyramid*]

No

we should give no aid to africa or india or pakistan or any of the 3rd world

At all?

What about those hit by tsunami for example. Plenty of countries regarded as Third World but who don't have over population and famine ravaging their country..... so why no aid to them?

[Vicky.]

I wonder if anyone would help us if...say a tsunami hit us. Unlikely to happen yeah, but interesting to wonder. I cant see it myself tbh.

[tmi]

I wonder if anyone would help us if...say a tsunami hit us. Unlikely to happen yeah, but interesting to wonder. I cant see it myself tbh.

Hey the thing is we bend over backwards to help other countries, no is the answer, we are too nice and thats why we are laughed at, we should be stronger country when it comes to immigration, benefit cheats etc. Like Australia when we have enough people living in Britain we should shut the gates to more immigrants, they are allowed to have houses and benefits and the people who pay in the system get fark all. Also dont get me started on the nanny state .

[Pyramid*]

I wonder if anyone would help us if...say a tsunami hit us. Unlikely to happen yeah, but interesting to wonder. I cant see it myself tbh.

I think the usual allies would certainly chip in. wouldn't be good for old world politics if they didn't.

[_Seth]

One day's, yeah.

[Redway]

I'd like to point out that the whole of Africa isn't dying of starvation - it's only Somalia. In regards to the question, I would.

[MTVN]

I'd like to point out that the whole of Africa isn't dying of starvation - it's only Somalia. In regards to the question, I would.

Umm no, Somalia is not the only African country where people are suffering from starvation

[Pyramid*]

I'd like to point out that the whole of Africa isn't dying of starvation - it's only Somalia. In regards to the question, I would.


Really? someone needs to do a little more research. Here's a starter for ten for you.....


Some "12.4 million people in Kenya, Ethiopia, Somalia and Djibouti are in dire need of help and the situation is getting worse," U.N. under-secretary-general and emergency relief coordinator Valerie Amos told reporters.

[Livia]

You think it surprising that one woman can see the failure to control birth rates in undeveloped countries with decades of famine behind them and should not suggest sterilisation after a woman has borne one or two children as a possible solution?

I'd call that an intelligent solution. Being a woman doesn't mean I have to share the desire to allow women to continue breeding and bringing more mouths into the world than they can already feed, clothe, etc.

The reason so many die in childbirth - or children die young is down to the very lifestyle they are living: in famine and destitution. Much of all that is connected would slow down and cease. It's long known that the usual methods of contraception are shunned. If they can't help themselves in some way.....

I think it surprising that as a woman, you seem to be totally unaware of the plight of women in the developing world. Because the usual methods of contraception are shunned, you're going to force a woman to be sterilised. Well, that's not a new idea, Hitler thought along the same lines: they're worth less than us so we can decide to sterilise them.

The reason many die in childbirth is that access to healthcare is sporadic at best, and in some Islamic countries women are denied heathcare all together. Many women in the third World have no choice because they have no power. Education is the only thing that will save them in the long run, but like access to healthcare, access to education is not a right for women.

Finally, to refer to them as "breeding" likens them to animals.

[Pyramid*]

I think it surprising that as a woman, you seem to be totally unaware of the plight of women in the developing world. Because the usual methods of contraception are shunned, you're going to force a woman to be sterilised. Well, that's not a new idea, Hitler thought along the same lines: they're worth less than us so we can decide to sterilise them.

The reason many die in childbirth is that access to healthcare is sporadic at best, and in some Islamic countries women are denied heathcare all together. Many women in the third World have no choice because they have no power. Education is the only thing that will save them in the long run, but like access to healthcare, access to education is not a right for women.

Finally, to refer to them as "breeding" likens them to animals.

I think as a woman - and one that thinks if a mother cannot feed the children she already has - nor feed herself thus endangering both her life and the life of her 'baby to be' - to bring another mouth to fed, clothe etc is sheer idiocy.

I don't need some lecturing educational lesson from you. I'm very well aware why the normal methods of contraception are not successful. Plenty are privvy to education by means of volunteers and various charities and organisations who set out to do exactly this - and as you say, these methods are shunned.

The Chinese introduced a similar policy - to deal with overpopulation.

I will refer to people breeding if I so chose. That is precisely what we do... breed. If you don't like that word, that's your issue, not mine.

Quit with the dramatics and Hitler. Goodwins Law kicks in - you lost the debate Livia.

[Livia]

I think as a woman - and one that thinks if a mother cannot feed the children she already has - nor feed herself thus endangering both her life and the life of her 'baby to be' - to bring another mouth to fed, clothe etc is sheer idiocy.

I don't need some lecturing educational lesson from you. I'm very well aware why the normal methods of contraception are not successful. Plenty are privvy to education by means of volunteers and various charities and organisations who set out to do exactly this - and as you say, these methods are shunned.

The Chinese introduced a similar policy - to deal with overpopulation.

I will refer to people breeding if I so chose. That is precisely what we do... breed. If you don't like that word, that's your issue, not mine.

Quit with the dramatics and Hitler. Goodwins Law kicks in - you lost the debate Livia.

I am not trying to lecture you. I wouldn't dream of lecturing someone who thinks they are right all the time, what would be the point?

Yes, the Chinese have used the "two kids" method. They're heavily into Human Rights in China aren't they. Look a little closer into it if you're going to hold it up as an ideal.

I haven't "lost" anything. There are no winners or losers in a debate like this. Godwin's law does not apply if we're discussing an idea you've had that Hitler had first. You think no one is ever going to make that analogy because you stumbled over Godwin's Law and you apply it where it does not apply? You're always banging on about how your opinions are your opinions, the same goes for me. If you're going to post contentious ideas you've got to be prepared for people to challenge you on them from time to time. You are not always right. No one is.

[Pyramid*]

I am not trying to lecture you. I wouldn't dream of lecturing someone who thinks they are right all the time, what would be the point?

Yes, the Chinese have used the "two kids" method. They're heavily into Human Rights in China aren't they. Look a little closer into it if you're going to hold it up as an ideal.

I haven't "lost" anything. There are no winners or losers in a debate like this. Godwin's law does not apply if we're discussing an idea you've had that Hitler had first. You think no one is ever going to make that analogy because you stumbled over Godwin's Law and you apply it where it does not apply? You're always banging on about how your opinions are your opinions, the same goes for me. If you're going to post contentious ideas you've got to be prepared for people to challenge you on them from time to time. You are not always right. No one is.

I don't believe I said I was right. Neither did I state that the Chinese method of population control was an Ideal, so let's stop misquoting or making mountains out of molehills.

I said I don't need a lecture from you. Whilst you are on the subject of Human Rights... I don't see you making any mention of the Human Rights of the unborn children being brought into a world that they have to be borne to starve in the most awful way. Yes, let's forget about their Human Rights. Let's allow woman who cannot care, fed, clothe their current family - and continue to let them breed, brining more mouths into the world that they cannot feed - and KNOW that they cannot feed.

If you are going to post comparisons to Hitler - you have lost the ability to have any form of reasonable discussion. It's really as simply as that.

[tmi]

I think it surprising that as a woman, you seem to be totally unaware of the plight of women in the developing world. Because the usual methods of contraception are shunned, you're going to force a woman to be sterilised. Well, that's not a new idea, Hitler thought along the same lines: they're worth less than us so we can decide to sterilise them.

The reason many die in childbirth is that access to healthcare is sporadic at best, and in some Islamic countries women are denied heathcare all together. Many women in the third World have no choice because they have no power. Education is the only thing that will save them in the long run, but like access to healthcare, access to education is not a right for women.

Finally, to refer to them as "breeding" likens them to animals.

I think knowledge is power, it is like teaching a child not to touch things that are hot they get burned. I think these women should have pse lessons like in primary schoool and comprehensive schools. If they are given the education they will perhaps take means of contraception. What is the bets if things dont change they will be in the same boat, ten years down the line.

[Pyramid*]

I think knowledge is power, it is like teaching a child not to touch things that are hot they get burned. I think these women should have pse lessons like in primary schoool and comprehensive schools. If they are given the education they will perhaps take means of contraception. What is the bets if things dont change they will be in the same boat, ten years down the line.

Funny you mention time scales tmi. When I was at primary school... 40 years ago, we used to put pennies into something called (way back then), Black Babies. For this very purpose - to help educate, provide basic irrigation, basic schooling, basic medical facilites bla bla bla. 40 years on and still it continues.

[tmi]

Funny you mention time scales tmi. When I was at primary school... 40 years ago, we used to put pennies into something called (way back then), Black Babies. For this very purpose - to help educate, provide basic irrigation, basic schooling, basic medical facilites bla bla bla. 40 years on and still it continues.

I think they should be imposed with some kind of restrictions, we seem to think that we can invade Iraq and give them means to ends, so why not Africa. ....
ponders a moment .......that is an oil country although we only get 2% of the oil from there we seem to think we need to impose sanctions on the way the country is run. I think if two parents have Hiv perhaps they should not have children , its like giving a child a death sentence, I really do think they need education , If we didnt help them what would they do? I think its a lost cause unless they start knowing basic sexual education. FFs put a johnny on the end (condom). Only takes once or get of the stop before you need to unload.

[Pyramid*]

I think they should be imposed with some kind of restrictions, we seem to think that we can invade Iraq and give them means to ends, so why not Africa. ....
ponders a moment .......that is an oil country although we only get 2% of the oil from there we seem to think we need to impose sanctions on the way the country is run. I think if two parents have Hiv perhaps they should not have children , its like giving a child a death sentence, I really do think they need education , If we didnt help them what would they do? I think its a lost cause unless they start knowing basic sexual education. FFs put a johnny on the end (condom). Only takes once or get of the stop before you need to unload.

Excellent point in respect of condoms / prevention of HIV and HIV infected children. Also there is a lot of rape in these countries.

But the problem is: many thousands of pounds are spent in 'educating' these woman on the matter of contraception - condoms etc. For various reasons, they chose not to use as well as the fact that given the location nipping to the local family health planning ... it just isn't available.

Sterilisation after one or two babies: that would have a dramatic effect on the over population: together with stopping babies, resulting from rape, being born, many of whom are as you say, HIV positive.

[MTVN]

I've got to agree with Livia, and to be honest Pyramid I think you're coming across as pretty narrow-minded

And forced sterilisation is just *****ing disgusting, even more so if you want to impose it on those who are completely innocent. And who's going to enact this policy exactly, in war torn Somalia which has no real government to speak of?

[tmi]

Excellent point in respect of condoms / prevention of HIV and HIV infected children. Also there is a lot of rape in these countries.

But the problem is: many thousands of pounds are spent in 'educating' these woman on the matter of contraception - condoms etc. For various reasons, they chose not to use as well as the fact that given the location nipping to the local family health planning ... it just isn't available.

Sterilisation after one or two babies: that would have a dramatic effect on the over population: together with stopping babies, resulting from rape, being born, many of whom are as you say, HIV positive.

Waves to mid sent you email, uv sends her regards, I think we can all throw ideas at the things we want to happen, but will we see major changes in our lifetime, has anything changed since band aid, if they have people like Britain and countries around the world throwing money at them why havent these issues been addressed. I wonder what state are country would be in if we didnt have any education. I tell you a little story, someone I know has two children and they put a limit of crap they eat, then someone says there should be no restriction they are young they will wear it off yes, that maybe the case but if the bad habits are not monitored they may turn into worst eating habits, the funny part of the story is the one who said no restrictions is at least a few stone overweight and the children are as well , who is right, education what your need.

[Pyramid*]

I've got to agree with Livia, and to be honest Pyramid I think you're coming across as pretty narrow-minded

And forced sterilisation is just *****ing disgusting, even more so if you want to impose it on those who are completely innocent. And who's going to enact this policy exactly, in war torn Somalia which has no real government to speak of?

I don't particularly care if I come across as pretty narrow minded. I have my opinion and that's that really.

You may think forced sterilisation is just *****ing disgusting. I don't. It's a discussion, and that's my choice in how I wish to discuss it - and that is my view on the matter - for all of the reasons I have given. I'm here to offer my own thoughts.You don't have to like it - I'm not here to curry favour

[Redway]

Really? someone needs to do a little more research. Here's a starter for ten for you.....

Well, those select countries.

[Livia]

I don't believe I said I was right. Neither did I state that the Chinese method of population control was an Ideal, so let's stop misquoting or making mountains out of molehills.

I said I don't need a lecture from you. Whilst you are on the subject of Human Rights... I don't see you making any mention of the Human Rights of the unborn children being brought into a world that they have to be borne to starve in the most awful way. Yes, let's forget about their Human Rights. Let's allow woman who cannot care, fed, clothe their current family - and continue to let them breed, brining more mouths into the world that they cannot feed - and KNOW that they cannot feed.

If you are going to post comparisons to Hitler - you have lost the ability to have any form of reasonable discussion. It's really as simply as that.

No, it's as simple as this: I posted a comparison to Hitler because he supported enforced sterlisation, just like you claim to. It was relevant. Like you've said in numerous threads, that is my opinion and if you don't like it, that's your issue, not mine.

Your comments about Human Rights come across as hysterical. I said earlier that education is the only way things will change. But that doesn't mean educating just the women, because in all your posts you've laid the blame at the feet of women in the Third World - the ones with the least power - and ignored men in the Third World - the ones with all the power.

I've said all I need to say on this topic. I have no intention of carrying on this discussion and watch you get more and more belligerent because you feel that no one's opinion carries any weight except your own.

[Livia]

I think knowledge is power, it is like teaching a child not to touch things that are hot they get burned. I think these women should have pse lessons like in primary schoool and comprehensive schools. If they are given the education they will perhaps take means of contraception. What is the bets if things dont change they will be in the same boat, ten years down the line.

Yes, you're right - knowledge is power. But it's not just the women that need to be taught.

[Redway]

Really? someone needs to do a little more research. Here's a starter for ten for you.....

But 49 countries in Africa aren't. :hugesmile:

[MTVN]

But 49 countries in Africa aren't. :hugesmile:

Basically the whole of Africa is rampant with starvation, even if not all of the countries are suffering from the current famine as much as Somalia is

[tmi]

Yes, you're right - knowledge is power. But it's not just the women that need to be taught.

Yes I agree the men should be taught has well but it is the women who carry the children, how many men take contraceptive pills:conf:
Hiv should be priority Both sexes, contraceptive more with women.

[Redway]

Basically the whole of Africa is rampant with starvation, even if not all of the countries are suffering from the current famine as much as Somalia is

I don't agree. http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com/

I know people who are from Africa; I have friends from Africa. Trust me, the whole of Africa is not suffering with starvation, but there is a massive difference between the rich and the poor. A rich person in, say, Nigeria is equivalent to an upper middle-class person here. A poor person in Nigeria is equivalent to...let's not go there.

[tmi]

I don't agree. http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com/

I know people who are from Africa; I have friends from Africa. Trust me, the whole of Africa is not suffering with starvation, but there is a massive difference between the rich and the poor. A rich person in, say, Nigeria is equivalent to an upper middle-class person here. A poor person in Nigeria is equivalent to...let's not go there.

I can understand us helping more poverished societies, but where is the charities for the homeless here, they have bed for a few nites and then back to streets sometimes its not the persons fault they are homeless, a few pay cheques they didnt have, the bills not paid next think you know house gone the lot. I heard today that if your drug user or alcoholic you have £25.00 a day. I will say no more.

[Pyramid*]

No, it's as simple as this: I posted a comparison to Hitler because he supported enforced sterlisation, just like you claim to. It was relevant. Like you've said in numerous threads, that is my opinion and if you don't like it, that's your issue, not mine.

Your comments about Human Rights come across as hysterical. I said earlier that education is the only way things will change. But that doesn't mean educating just the women, because in all your posts you've laid the blame at the feet of women in the Third World - the ones with the least power - and ignored men in the Third World - the ones with all the power.

I've said all I need to say on this topic. I have no intention of carrying on this discussion and watch you get more and more belligerent because you feel that no one's opinion carries any weight except your own.

Hysterical? I think not. I think I simply touched upon something you yourself gave no consideration to, and I suspect you simply didn't like that - whether or not there is truth in that, I have no idea, that is however, my opinion. I respect anyone and everyone's right to their own opinion and manage to do it without asserting that someone's comments are hysterical - my point in respect of the Human Rights of either the unborne child or the babies born to such a life are valid. VERY.

I lay the blame at the woman's feet Livia for one very simply basic reason. They are the ones who fall pregnant. It's not difficult to figure out why I feel that the main responsibility lies with the females and not the males.

[Pyramid*]

I don't agree. http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com/

I know people who are from Africa; I have friends from Africa. Trust me, the whole of Africa is not suffering with starvation, but there is a massive difference between the rich and the poor. A rich person in, say, Nigeria is equivalent to an upper middle-class person here. A poor person in Nigeria is equivalent to...let's not go there.

When was the last time you visited any African country? Serious question. How many have you visited, seen houses made from rusting corregated steel, piss and crap floating by makeshift front doors that are no more than a filthy ragged bit of scrap material?

I have visited several and believe me, there is far more poverty and destitution than many people are aware of.

[Redway]

When was the last time you visited any African country? Serious question. How many have you visited, seen houses made from rusting corregated steel, piss and crap floating by makeshift front doors that are no more than a filthy ragged bit of scrap material?

I have visited several and believe me, there is far more poverty and destitution than many people are aware of.

2009. I have seen plenty of Africa. Yes, there are very poor people there, and their standards of poor are shocking, but look at the rich. It's not all the people in Africa that are poor, you know.

[Pyramid*]

2009. I have seen plenty of Africa. Yes, there are very poor people there, and their standards of poor are shocking, but look at the rich. It's not all the people in Africa that are poor, you know.


the rich aren't the ones with the problems though. That's the very point.

Pro rata, you will find the numbers of impoverished people far far outweight those who are classed as rich.

[Redway]

the rich aren't the ones with the problems though. That's the very point.

Pro rata, you will find the numbers of impoverished people far far outweight those who are classed as rich.

Fair enough, Pyramid. I see your point. :)

[Vicky.]

When was the last time you visited any African country? Serious question. How many have you visited, seen houses made from rusting corregated steel, piss and crap floating by makeshift front doors that are no more than a filthy ragged bit of scrap material?

I have visited several and believe me, there is far more poverty and destitution than many people are aware of.

Was like that when I went on holiday to tunisia. Was in hammamet, obviously the tourist area. But literally about 5 minutes walk away was the locals houses. I hooked up with a tunisian guy who worked in the hotel i was in, he took me to mine, and I was actually disgusted at the place he was living :/

There were about 20 people there, in a hut thing, with just kinda a hole where they all **** and pissed. It stunk to the high heavens. Really opened my eyes and made me grateful for my own house and living in a developed country D:

[InOne]

At the end of the day there is plenty going on with our own country. We have kids over here that are in poverty and I'd rather concentrate on that.

[Pyramid*]

At the end of the day there is plenty going on with our own country. We have kids over here that are in poverty and I'd rather concentrate on that.

I have the same thought myself these days. ie: Let's get our own house in order first .....

[InOne]

I have the same thought myself these days. ie: Let's get our own house in order first .....

Yeah, like tmi said we help others out too much without sorting our own problems out first.

[Liberty4eva]

I think a more practical way to help africa would be for the western world to eliminate its subsidies on agriculture.

[AJ.]

yeah although it would probably be wasted, they seem to spend all the money on cures rather than prevention.

[Shaun]

I wonder if anyone would help us if...say a tsunami hit us. Unlikely to happen yeah, but interesting to wonder. I cant see it myself tbh.

If you consider recent natural disasters in two of the three richest economies - USA (Hurricane Katrina) and Japan (earlier this year) - both of these received a lot of donations even from countries with little to spare. And they're traditionally seen as economically stable (although the current debt problems might say otherwise :tongue:) I don't think the Red Cross or other such worldwide charities are that swayed by politics.

I probably would but like others have said I'd rather make sure it went to something useful rather than the plane fares there. Though I guess someone has to pay for that :/

[Jords]

If I could personally hand it over Id give them 2 days.

[joeysteele]

If I could personally hand it over Id give them 2 days.

Very good point, that is why I originally said in my earlier post that one organisation should be handling the funds donated, fully accountable to those who have donated and that it is clearly seen that the aid goes 'directly' to those who need it and that the results are documented and shown to all.

I also think contraception is vital, not in a forced way but encouraged to be used, there is absolutely no point in bringing children into the World to die as babies and children. I am pleased to see the poll has moved away from the firm 'no' level it was at in the beginning.

If contraception is denied becasue of a church or religious issue then that also needs to be thrown out too, if any church objects in the continent of Africa to contraception then that church should feed and protect the starving and sick babies and children too.

I doubt very many children in the UK are starving to death or unable to get basic medical aid,we do have poverty in the UK but a free NHS there for all,(at present anyway).
I am with you Jords on this,I would be happy to donate much more if I could see exactly who gets the funding, what it does and have it well documented as to showing the aid going direct to the people who need it.

I really hate seeing the film of babies and children who didn't ask to be born, who had no choice but to be born,who are now dying slowly and painfully for basic food and medical help.
For evil to thrive good people just need to sit back and do nothing (or words to that effect) is an old saying very apt to this problem.

[AJ.]

^
But alot have kids so they can go & earn :/

If we wanted to help we could, if the world pitched in & sacrificed their luxuries we could have it sorted in <10yrs but we don't want to because we're naturally greedy & selfish. The lack of care or urgency in those who have power is pretty disgusting..

[Ammi]

No I wouldn't give a day's pay, there wouldn't be any point, African Governments are so so corrupt and only a small amount of aid given actually gets through to the people who need it anyway. It was the same with BandAid, they struggled to get the aid through. Much better to save that money and go out there and help out - help build classrooms in Namibia is something I would hope to do. Two or three weeks of people's lives will make much more of a difference.

[joeysteele]

No I wouldn't give a day's pay, there wouldn't be any point, African Governments are so so corrupt and only a small amount of aid given actually gets through to the people who need it anyway. It was the same with BandAid, they struggled to get the aid through. Much better to save that money and go out there and help out - help build classrooms in Namibia is something I would hope to do. Two or three weeks of people's lives will make much more of a difference.

I agree that in the past aid has not got in total to the areas and those it was given for, that is why I and Jords are saying all aid given must be clearly proven to be going angdhave gone to the people who need it.

In Somalia for instance, one major problem seems to be the Somalian guerrillas or rebels who won't let aid through also, well the other African nations in the area should make sure those rebels are cleared away forthwith so that aid can get through.

I agree with you, past funds have been wasted and that is why it needs to be fully transparent as to how much is given and how and where it goes,ensuring all of it gets to those who need it.
None handed to govts or politicians of those Nations though.

[ElProximo]

There is nothing wrong with having children. There is nothing wrong with having babies. People don't cause starvation. People solve it. Or cause it.
One reason why we can send 100 million to Africa is because our Grandparents had a lot of children. So now there are 1000s of Brits who exist and work efficiently and produce grain, boats, Aid Charities.

If you double the number of Kenyans you can have twice as many people producing twice as many crops, bringing in twice as many tourists (and their money) and producing twice as many energy-efficient innovations.
You could have twice as many Africans paying taxes into hospitals and making twice as many Aids-vaccines of the future.

So there is nothing wrong with having people. Birth rates can double or triple or quadruple and be good or bad.

The problem is that we have existing people in Africa who are doing things like destroying crops (or the ability to even make such a thing),
and
creating puppet regimes which are then attacked and murdered and replaced with another gang of criminals who set up a new 'President' and meanwhile nothing is being built or repaired and no social programs etc.
and,
Gangs of Somalian warlords are sitting on enough grain to easily feed 1000 new babies however they use the grain as 'money' and for 'power' and 'loyalty' etc.
There is enough food to feed twice as many babies per village,
but,
the warlord is punishing the village for not helping him kill another warlord.

but its not having children that is any problem. China has 1.4 billion people and is emerging to a 1st world nation.
India is emerging and improving education, infrastructure, health (granted in a cluster****ing frankenstein kind of way),
and,
did this while experiencing a massive population growth.

So population growth is not, in itself, here nor there. If Africa had a declining population it still have (relatively speaking) the exact same problems. There would just be less corrupt agents and criminals causing same rates of starvation to less people.
But the same rates of death and starvation etc.

[Niamh.]

Yes I would. I'm aware that most of it probably won't reach the people it's intended for but if some does then it's better than nothing. You can't just give up on these people and let them die. I think it's awful that it's their own governments that's keeping them in this situation and have been allowed to do so for so long.

[MTVN]

We don't really help that much tbf, isn't it about time we cancelled the Third World Debt?

[Vicky.]

I dont really understand much about politics and that I'll be honest But on the news yesterday I caught something about america increasing its debt instead of just 'defaulting'. Now this might sound like a ridiculous question to those who understand stuff like this...but can poor countries not just 'default'?

And if greece can just be given millions upon millions, why cant countries who need it more be given it?

[Niamh.]

I dont really understand much about politics and that I'll be honest But on the news yesterday I caught something about america increasing its debt instead of just 'defaulting'. Now this might sound like a ridiculous question to those who understand stuff like this...but can poor countries not just 'default'?

And if greece can just be given millions upon millions, why cant countries who need it more be given it?

I'm no expert on this kind of thing either but I presume Greece have been given so much help because they're part of the EU and share the currency, I think if they weren't helped out it would be very bad for both the EU and the currency

[Vicky.]

I'm no expert on this kind of thing either but I presume Greece have been given so much help because they're part of the EU and share the currency, I think if they weren't helped out it would be very bad for both the EU and the currency

The defaulting thing though too :/

If america could have done it, why cant others? :S

[Niamh.]

The defaulting thing though too :/

If america could have done it, why cant others? :S

I'm not sure what the repercussions are if you default, presumably it wouldn't have been good for the American economy and currency. I'm not sure what effect it would have on a third world country though

[Vicky.]

I'm not sure what the repercussions are if you default, presumably it wouldn't have been good for the American economy and currency. I'm not sure what effect it would have on a third world country though

I cant see it making things any worse tbh.

Then again it might not be possible for them to that. As I say, my knowledge on politics is pretty much non-existent :laugh:

[MTVN]

America don't really need to default, the only reason people talked about it was because they have a maximum debt ceiling set to prevent the government borrowing too much money (we don't have on in the UK). They were going to exceed that as things were going which would have meant having to default in theory but it wouldn't have been necessary so now they're just going to raise the debt ceiling and cut spending to bring it back down and avoid defaulting. I think that's right anyway but anyone feel free to correct me

I'm not entirely sure why Third World countries can't just default, Mexico did it before, and so did Argentina, I suppose the people who have lent the money (a lot of it's by private firms, banks etc.) simply won't let them, a lot of countries have cancelled a lot of the debt but I guess they're not willing to completely cancel it

[Vicky.]

Well they are never realistically going to be able to pay it back, so to not let them default is just stupid IMO :/

[Redway]

At the end of the day there is plenty going on with our own country. We have kids over here that are in poverty and I'd rather concentrate on that.

Not really. Africa suffers from starvation (East Africa, at least). At least help is easy to find in Britain. East Africa needs help the most.

I'd help them.

[InOne]

Not really. Africa suffers from starvation (East Africa, at least). At least help is easy to find in Britain. East Africa needs help the most.

I'd help them.

If help is easy to find then why is it happening? And why Africa? Why not help Indians in poverty? It's like deciding who is more worthy or something so I'd rather just help people in the UK in need first.

[Niamh.]

If help is easy to find then why is it happening? And why Africa? Why not help Indians in poverty? It's like deciding who is more worthy or something so I'd rather just help people in the UK in need first.

People are actually starving to death in Africa though, people in the UK aren't. The thought of dying like that or having to watch your kids die like that is just horrific. You were lucky enough to be born in the UK, try to imagine if you did happen to be born over there and everyone just turned their backs and said "it's not my problem"

[Redway]

If help is easy to find then why is it happening? And why Africa? Why not help Indians in poverty? It's like deciding who is more worthy or something so I'd rather just help people in the UK in need first.

Well, India isn't in severe enough famine. Seeing as they mentioned Africa, I'd happily go down there and help.

[Redway]

People are actually starving to death in Africa though, people in the UK aren't. The thought of dying like that or having to watch your kids die like that is just horrific. You were lucky enough to be born in the UK, try to imagine if you did happen to be born over there and everyone just turned their backs and said "it's not my problem"

Exactly. The worst that can happen in the UK is not having a bed to sleep on (and that's usually down to child abuse). People in Africa are actually starving. When was the last time somebody was starving in England (excluding child abuse)? Never. Even if they were, you can get something for £1 just down the street. In Somalia (for example), you'd probably have to walk hundreds of miles, before you could reach a shop, and, in famine, do they really have the energy to walk all the way?

[Livia]

When was the last time somebody was starving in England (excluding child abuse)?

Elderly people are starved to death every year in the UK - the sixth richest country in the world.

[Niamh.]

Elderly people are starved to death every year in the UK - the sixth richest country in the world.

I might be wrong but isn't that more to do with the fact elderly people don't feel hunger as they get older and just stop eating and less to do with poverty?

[Redway]

I might be wrong but isn't that more to do with the fact elderly people don't feel hunger as they get older and just stop eating and less to do with poverty?

You're right. Most of them can't be bothered eating.

[Livia]

I might be wrong but isn't that more to do with the fact elderly people don't feel hunger as they get older and just stop eating and less to do with poverty?


It's more to do with the people who are caring for them failing on almost every level to offer them any kind of care at all. I don't see any haunting TV commercials about that. the question was, when was the last time someone starved to death in the UK.

[Livia]

You're right. Most of them can't be bothered eating.

Most of them can't be bothered eating? Do you think elderly people are a different species? Most of the elderly people who starve to death, do so in care homes while being charged thousands of pounds a month to be looked after.

[Niamh.]

It's more to do with the people who are caring for them failing on almost every level to offer them any kind of care at all. I don't see any haunting TV commercials about that. the question was, when was the last time someone starved to death in the UK.

Yes, I see your point but I think that it's down to completely different reasons, like, we on the side of the globe seeming to have lost all sense of community.

[Niamh.]

Most of them can't be bothered eating? Do you think elderly people are a different species? Most of the elderly people who starve to death, do so in care homes while being charged thousands of pounds a month to be looked after.

really? :shocked: that I am shocked by

[Livia]

really? :shocked: that I am shocked by

Well... it's shocking! And care home owners make a fortune from elderly people and their families, yet pay their care workers minimum wage.

I realise it's a different topic... but it does happen to people who are powerless, wherever they live.

[Niamh.]

Well... it's shocking! And care home owners make a fortune from elderly people and their families, yet pay their care workers minimum wage.

I realise it's a different topic... but it does happen to people who are powerless, wherever they live.

Yeah, care homes are so expensive and yeah, you are right of course, I suppose with Africa it seems to happen on a much grander scheme. Unfortunately though, it will never change unless something is done about their corrupt governments and police :/

[Vicky.]

Most of them can't be bothered eating? Do you think elderly people are a different species? Most of the elderly people who starve to death, do so in care homes while being charged thousands of pounds a month to be looked after.

I can believe this. A lot of 'care' homes are ridiculous.

[InOne]

People are actually starving to death in Africa though, people in the UK aren't. The thought of dying like that or having to watch your kids die like that is just horrific. You were lucky enough to be born in the UK, try to imagine if you did happen to be born over there and everyone just turned their backs and said "it's not my problem"

But still, whilst our own are in poverty, they should be made priorty. Need to sort ourselves our before we help others which is our main problem.

[Niamh.]

But still, whilst our own are in poverty, they should be made priorty. Need to sort ourselves our before we help others which is our main problem.

Well, if everyone had that attitude, they'd never get any help.

[InOne]

Well, if everyone had that attitude, they'd never get any help.

Luckily everyone doesn't then :tongue:

[Niamh.]

Luckily everyone doesn't then :tongue:

Indeed :tongue:

[InOne]

But I'm not going to be made to feel guilty for wanting to help my own country before Africa, they get loads of aid and money. I know it's not enough but doesn't mean we can't try do ourselves some good here instead of trying to look like heroes everywhere else.

[Livia]

But I'm not going to be made to feel guilty for wanting to help my own country before Africa, they get loads of aid and money. I know it's not enough but doesn't mean we can't try do ourselves some good here instead of trying to look like heroes everywhere else.

People choose which causes to support. It'd be a nightmare scenario of everyone decided to support foreign charities and ignore those at home. I don't think anyone's trying to make you feel guilty.

[Niamh.]

People choose which causes to support. It'd be a nightmare scenario of everyone decided to support foreign charities and ignore those at home. I don't think anyone's trying to make you feel guilty.

except me :hmph:









JK :bigsmile:

[Livia]

except me :hmph:









JK :bigsmile:

LOL... well, obviously except you. That goes without saying....

[joeysteele]

Most of them can't be bothered eating? Do you think elderly people are a different species? Most of the elderly people who starve to death, do so in care homes while being charged thousands of pounds a month to be looked after.

Therein lies a whole new issue and as you point out, in care homes the elderly are not only often malnourished but abused as well.
The care home system at present leaves most of them free to do as they please, you are correct,what happens in some care homes against elderly,vulnerable people is horrific too.

[jaybitches]

No i would not give them my days wage. The white man has been over thr teaching them how to build wells and that for years now. Someone should go "Right we will take it from here." But know they sit back and let us do all the work

[bananarama]

Well... it's shocking! And care home owners make a fortune from elderly people and their families, yet pay their care workers minimum wage.

I realise it's a different topic... but it does happen to people who are powerless, wherever they live.


Also I think it's more probable that the starvation will take place in hospitals with nurses to busy to ensure sick people who need help feeding are fed properly.

I have seen for myself a blind woman given a fish meal full of tiny bones she could easily choke on. She was helped by my mother who was also a patient but lucky enough to be able to help her.

Meals are served in hospitals but not enough attention paid to see if the patience have eaten enough.

[InOne]

After seeing the riots sod the little scrotes over here, they africans can have it :joker:

[Legend killer]

Not a chance heck im nearly as broke as those Africans

[bananarama]

I am 70 years old and ever since I can remember appeals for the starving have been on going. We are told give us the money and we will buy the tools so they can feed themselves.

The year 2011 and nothing has changed. Still mass starvation. Feeding money is a bit like feeding a drug addict money and expect them to stop taking drugs. Tragically it doesn't work in itself.

Setting aside natural disasters some countries simply have religious or cultural beliefs that will literaly kill them in their millions regradless of how much money you spend.

Women are enslaved to MEN with their ridiculous control freak religious and cultural beliefs and are doomed to have children that cannot be fed or treated for illness. The irony is the more you make well the more indiscriminate births will happen as a result of the culture and lack of education.

Money needs to go in line with cultural and religious change......Alas the only part of that equasion going on is "money from generous people hoping in vane it will help. Cultural and religious and political change is largly absent.

So no matter how much you give or for how long nothing will change. When todays people who are giving reach my age of 70 they will find nothing they have given has stopped the starvation. Only a political and cultural miracle can do that........

[lostalex]

Africa needs to help itself, otherwise they will have nothing to be proud of itself for. Africa needs to be proud of itself, fixing it for them would steal that away from them. People need to have pride in their own land. You can't give it to someone.

[Sunny_01]

Personally I would not give up a days pay to send to any other country.

Our own country has such huge pockets of poverty and deprivation that I would rather give up a days pay to donate to something positive in the UK.