Black Urban Youth

[InOne]

Do you think there is any reason why they really have not moved up in the social ladder after the years they've been here? I mean, you see the massive estates in London which is basically a society in it's own, they've never seemed to really properly intergrate. And how have this gangster culture adopted from the yanks. So many come from broken homes.

People always say we should listen to them, but what do they actually want? And what do they think could help them better their lives?

[lostalex]

Are black people as a group doing well anywhere? People say it because of racism, but even in countries where they are the majority, they don't seem to do well. Africa is by far the poorest continent in the world. East asians seem to do great in majority white countries, so you can't blame racism for lack of social mobility. Jews have been horribly oppressed, but they seem to do just fine. I think there is more to it than just racism.

It's an interesting question, and unfortunately i think because of political correctness one that will not be answered anytime soon.

[InOne]

Are black people as a group doing well anywhere? People say it because of racism, but even in countries where they are the majority, they don't seem to do well. Africa is by far the poorest continent in the world. East asians seem to do great in majority white countries, so you can't blame racism for lack of social mobility. Jews have been horribly oppressed, but they seem to do just fine. I think there is more to it than just racism.

It's an interesting question, and unfortunately i think because of political correctness one that will not be answered anytime soon.

I think you're right :joker:

[ILoveTRW]

If you think Blacks are not integrated into the society then you really have no idea what it is like up north with all the asians

[Zippy]

Education. Black culture just doesn't value education. Its not cool to carry books, be seen at a library, gain high qualifications etc etc. Then there's the lack of good male role models. In London particularly, crime amongst black males is of a shockingly high level. Of course, nobodies allowed to point to it without being branded racist. Which is why the problem will never be truly addressed or dealt with.

Everybody in power is tiptoeing around the real issues. Ive read many times elsewhere that the reason the police held back was because of the ethnic make up of the initial riots. If they were white football hooligans they'd be in there like a shot with batons and a heavy hand.

Truth is many of the real root problems stem from black culture itself. How they raise their young and the media influences they worship; for instance, hip hop positively glamorises crime whilst at the same time sending the message that you need the bling to be a somebody. Thats a lethal mixed message that brainwashes black kids from a very young age. Rappers bragging about bullet wounds and prison sentences...then on mtv cribs bragging about all their material goods. Well how the hell do they think their fans are gonna acquire such goods themselves? With no education, crime is the only way.

Education, schools, books and libraries are accessible to ALL kids in this country. Any child of any colour can work hard and get great qualifications. I know its still hard to get a job with qualifications but a young black male with no qualifications stands little chance. They have to be encouraged to work hard and get all their material goods in a legitimate way. But its like they don't want to have to work for anything. Again, lousy role models.

[Livia]

I think poor white males suffer in much the same way as young black males; they are castigated, will probably leave school without qualifications and if they do look for a job they will struggle to find work. Like young black men they have few role models and may well lack a male influence in their life. They have also been overlooked historically in favour of people from ethnic minorities due to positive discrimination. No wonder so many have absorbed themselves into black culture because being white and working class is not a good thing be these days. Black culture is seen as cool, where as white working class culture has been reduced to one word: “chav”. I saw a post on Yahoo during the height of the riots which said, “If the white working-class of this country had any fight left in them, it would have been them rioting”.

I want to say that this is a difficult and potentially inflammable subject dealt with on this thread with great eloquence, subtlety and tact.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Give me 2 twin children


bring one up in hackney with a feckless mum and no dad and they will probably grow up as feckless


bring the other up in a middle class family in bath and they will probably grow up a useful member of society with a career and nice family.

[lostalex]

Give me 2 twin children


bring one up in hackney with a feckless mum and no dad and they will probably grow up as feckless


bring the other up in a middle class family in bath and they will probably grow up a useful member of society with a career and nice family.

So you are saying it's nurture over nature. I agree. But what you are really saying is culture over over race.

So what does that say about "multiculturalism"?

[Crimson Dynamo]

So you are saying it's nurture over nature. I agree. But what you are really saying is culture over over race.

So what does that say about "multiculturalism"?

that would depend on what you mean by multiculturalism

for me the word does not exist

[InOne]

that would depend on what you mean by multiculturalism

for me the word does not exist

Why is that? (Out of curiosity)

[AfroMullet]

I dont really think this is a forum you will get any answers that actually hold any weight on. Unless there has been a mass serge of black people signin up since i was last here, how can anyone else really give a point of view. That said, im only one person i can speak for us all but still. I'll write up a proper answer tomoro, im tired now, racism is still alive and kickin though i dont care what anyone says.

[Wildcat!]

I dont really think this is a forum you will get any answers that actually hold any weight on. Unless there has been a mass serge of black people signin up since i was last here, how can anyone else really give a point of view. That said, im only one person i can speak for us all but still. I'll write up a proper answer tomoro, im tired now, racism is still alive and kickin though i dont care what anyone says.

Thank you! And thats why, I dont even bother responding to these kind of threds anymore, I use to, but it seems to fall into deaf ears.
But the usual suspects, remain the same.

So now, I just read them, shake my head, and laugh! :)

[SoBig]

Thank you! And thats why, I dont even bother responding to these kind of threds anymore, I use to, but it seems to fall into deaf ears.
But the usual suspects, remain the same.

So now, I just read them, shake my head, and laugh! :)
Amen.

[Zippy]

..racism is still alive and kickin though i dont care what anyone says.

nobody says it isn't. But it cuts all ways. And blame doesn't go in all one direction. Like I said, education is there for all and some choose not to take it.

I don't see the point of you two coming on this thread just to state its not worth commenting because the other posters are white. And apparently you know so much better because youre black. Ironic that you can't see the racism in that.

We may not be black but we still have awareness of our communities and social surroundings. Sometimes those on the outside have a better view. I grew up in an innercity with huge ethnic diversity. My closest friends at school were black. So Im not exactly ignorant to black culture.

But yeah, how dare white people comment on black culture.

[lostalex]

I dont really think this is a forum you will get any answers that actually hold any weight on. Unless there has been a mass serge of black people signin up since i was last here, how can anyone else really give a point of view. That said, im only one person i can speak for us all but still. I'll write up a proper answer tomoro, im tired now, racism is still alive and kickin though i dont care what anyone says.

Umm last time i checked black people are living in the same world as the rest of us, so everyone's opinions and experiences are equally valid. The idea that only a black person's experience can shed light on the problem is just ridiculous. That's like saying a doctor isn't fit to diagnose cancer unless he has cancer himself.

[letmein]

nobody says it isn't. But it cuts all ways. And blame doesn't go in all one direction. Like I said, education is there for all and some choose not to take it.

I don't see the point of you two coming on this thread just to state its not worth commenting because the other posters are white. And apparently you know so much better because youre black. Ironic that you can't see the racism in that.

We may not be black but we still have awareness of our communities and social surroundings. Sometimes those on the outside have a better view. I grew up in an innercity with huge ethnic diversity. My closest friends at school were black. So Im not exactly ignorant to black culture.

But yeah, how dare white people comment on black culture.

You don't know what it's like to be black if you aren't black. Case closed, and there's no racism in saying that. As a white person, you sure are showing the same ignorance you're labeling others with. The irony!

The thread's gonna be closed anyway.

[arista]

Thank you! And thats why, I dont even bother responding to these kind of threds anymore, I use to, but it seems to fall into deaf ears.
But the usual suspects, remain the same.

So now, I just read them, shake my head, and laugh! :)



Spiffing

[Zippy]

You don't know what it's like to be black if you aren't black. Case closed, and there's no racism in saying that. As a white person, you sure are showing the same ignorance you're labeling others with. The irony!

The thread's gonna be closed anyway.

oh ffs

you really need to learn what the word ironic means for starters.

As a white person? I wasn't aware giving opinions on this topic was dependent on colour. Silly me. And please do show me where I claim to be speaking from a black perspective?

Forums are about giving your opinion from your own perspective. Do I need to put a disclaimer in every post for those too stupid to figure it out.

And yeah it will be closed if antagonistic tools like you jump on with your usual utterly useless drivel.

[Sunny_01]

There was some very well thought out discussion taking place in this thread.

Please contribute in an appropriate way otherwise the thread will end up locked and that would be sad as this should be a topic that can be discussed in a mature manner.

[Livia]

There was some very well thought out discussion taking place in this thread.

Please contribute in an appropriate way otherwise the thread will end up locked and that would be sad as this should be a topic that can be discussed in a mature manner.

I totally agree.

[Livia]

I dont really think this is a forum you will get any answers that actually hold any weight on. Unless there has been a mass serge of black people signin up since i was last here, how can anyone else really give a point of view. That said, im only one person i can speak for us all but still. I'll write up a proper answer tomoro, im tired now, racism is still alive and kickin though i dont care what anyone says.

I'm a women, and I'm a Jew. Two sections of society that have been discriminated against for centuries... but I'm not black. Do you consider I have a right to speak about discrimination? Or because my skin is white, do you think I don't understand what discrimination is?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Thank you! And thats why, I dont even bother responding to these kind of threds anymore, I use to, but it seems to fall into deaf ears.
But the usual suspects, remain the same.

So now, I just read them, shake my head, and laugh! :)

it would be more gracious of you to just admit you dont have the capacity for the debate rather than hoist yourself up the clackety steps of your ivory tower so you can pontificate to the fictitious well wishers below.

[AfroMullet]

If your not black then you cannot comment on the struggle of a black man or black youth. Its that simple. Can cant even begin to understand someones stuggle unless you have been through it, and its something you never have or ever will go through. Im not saying you dont have stuggles as a white man, asian man, whatever, but the struggles are different. I dont know or understand your stuggle, you dont understand mine.

[AfroMullet]

I'm a women, and I'm a Jew. Two sections of society that have been discriminated against for centuries... but I'm not black. Do you consider I have a right to speak about discrimination? Or because my skin is white, do you think I don't understand what discrimination is?

Of course you know what discrimination is, in certain circles Jewish people are seen as devils, there believed to control the world with underground secret socioties, etc etc. Thats your stuggle, i dont know what its like to be called a devil, then i have my own stuggle, you dont know what its like to be called a ****** or a coon. Everyone has a basic understanding of what discrimination and stuggle is, but no one can understand another mans stuggle.

[Shaun]

I don't think race really comes into it. Although from figures I was presented with in my sociology course there seems to be a very high number of single-parent families within the Afro-Caribbean community in the UK, and I guess as the race with the biggest proportion of this (and the (IMO) ensuing disciplinary problems) they usually get the most representation in the media as being troublemakers.

But it's quite easy to see now that urban youth and criminals are hardly of one race. It's down to neglect and class, ahead of race, IMO.

[Sunny_01]

We may not know how it feels but we can have empathy for a situation as many of us have faced some level of discrimination in our lives.

I guess I would suggest that you read the OPs thread again, it was actually a question and I figure they were looking for honest answers, it would be really nice if someone who knows what they are talking about and is in that situation answered them.

[lostalex]

Black people are not the most discriminated against minority in the world. Homosexuals are far more discriminated against that blacks. At least black people have equal rights under the law, gay people never have. And the ironic thing is that black people are the most homophobic people in the world.

The idea that Black people have some sort of "special" minority status needs to end.

Discrimination is not worse because of skin colour. Women and homosexuals are far more persecuted and discriminated against than black str8 men.

[SoBig]

Mods ban this user. This dude is clearly a troll. How can this guy keep getting away with ignorant racist posts like this? This is not the first time he has posted stuff like this about black people either.

Black people are not the most discriminated against minority in the world. Homosexuals are far more discriminated against that blacks. At least black people have equal rights under the law, gay people never have. And the ironic thing is that black people are the most homophobic people in the world.

The idea that Black people have some sort of "special" minority status needs to end.

Discrimination is not worse because of skin colour. Women and homosexuals are far more persecuted and discriminated against than black str8 men.


And the ironic thing is that black people are the most homophobic people in the world.
You gotta love this racist comment here.

Last time I looked at the history books white people had black people as slaves for hundreds of years. Where they were beaten to death, raped and made to feel like s**** simply because of the colour of their skin. How dare you type s**** like this. When homosexuals go through that type of physical and psychological torture then come holler, until then shut the ******** up. You bigot.

[Shaun]

Oh goody, this has turned into "who's the biggest victim?"

[lostalex]

Mods ban this user. This dude is clearly a troll. How can this guy keep getting away with ignorant racist posts like this? This is not the first time he has posted stuff like this about black people either.





You gotta love this racist comment here.

Last time I looked at the history books white people had black people as slaves for hundreds of years. Where they were beaten to death, raped and made to feel like s**** simply because of the colour of their skin. How dare you type s**** like this. When homosexuals go through that type of physical and psychological torture then come holler, until then shut the ******** up. You bigot.

Well atleast black epople are mentioned in history books,. did it ever occur to you that Homosexual discrimination isn't even represented in those same history books?

And it's not racist it's true, atleast in America. I can't speak for UK, but i can speak for America and Africa, Africa where homosexuality is punishable by the death penalty.

Remind me again of any country in the world where you can be put to death just for being black? oh yea, there isn't one.

You are typical of the same victim black comunity that thyinks they are "special victims"

Everything you've talked about has happened WORSE and for LONGER to women and homosexuals then it ever happened to blacks.

AND BLACKS ARN'T THE ONLY PEOPLE TO BE SLAVES. INFACT THERE ARE MORE WOMEN IN SEX SLAVERY NOW THEN THERE EVER WERE BLACK AFRICAN SLAVES IN AMERICA.

you really need to educate yourself. You should be ashamed of your ignorance, instead of slinging around terms like "racist"

[Vicky.]

Oh goody, this has turned into "who's the biggest victim?"

Doesnt it always.

[Wildcat!]

Oh goody, this has turned into "who's the biggest victim?"

Thats what these threads are designed to do! And again, its the same people who always open them. I actually would answer a thread like that, if I knew it was genuine. BUt I know the history of most of the posters, so I know their intentions.

Sobig, dont get sucked in really not worth it!

[lostalex]

Thats what these threads are designed to do! And again, its the same people who always open them. I actually would answer a thread like that, if I knew it was genuine. BUt I know the history of most of the posters, so I know their intentions.

Sobig, dont get sucked in really not worth it!


Sobig shouldn't get sucked in? It's Sobig that is the exact type of person that should be reading this thread. He is an ignorant little bigot. Reading too much malcom X, one of the worst racists of all times.

[Livia]

Of course you know what discrimination is, in certain circles Jewish people are seen as devils, there believed to control the world with underground secret socioties, etc etc. Thats your stuggle, i dont know what its like to be called a devil, then i have my own stuggle, you dont know what its like to be called a ****** or a coon. Everyone has a basic understanding of what discrimination and stuggle is, but no one can understand another mans stuggle.

That's one of the saddest things I've ever read.

[AfroMullet]

That's one of the saddest things I've ever read.

How is that sad? Go on then, tell me what its like to spend a week in the shoes of a young black male, who doesnt know his father, his mums works for a minimum wage, lives in a council estate in Hackney, doesnt have a job dispite applying constantly, and routinly gets pulled and harassed by police for no good reason.

[Vicky.]

How is that sad? Go on then, tell me what its like to spend a week in the shoes of a young black male, who doesnt know his father, his mums works for a minimum wage, lives in a council estate in Hackney, doesnt have a job dispite applying constantly, and routinly gets pulled and harassed by police for no good reason.

What you just said is also true of many many white males/females though.

Its not exclusive to people with a certain skin colour.

[MTVN]

Sobig shouldn't get sucked in? It's Sobig that is the exact type of person that should be reading this thread. He is an ignorant little bigot. Reading too much malcom X, one of the worst racists of all times.

Oh Jesus come on, one of the worst racists of all time? Rubbish, he was a very inspirational figure fighting against racial oppression. Any seperatist views he did have he denounced before his death

[Zippy]

If your not black then you cannot comment on the struggle of a black man or black youth. Its that simple.

Well it's not that simple and yes we can comment. It's a free forum. I don't see anybody claiming to know what a black mans struggle is. But when your struggles affect the rest of society it becomes everybodies business.

Clearly there are serious issues that need to be addressed. As I hinted at before, the violent crime statistics in London as regards young black males is shocking:

2009/10 figures

12% of Londons population is black or have a black parent.

67% caught for gun crimes were black.

54% of street robberies(actually proceeded against) were black males.

32% of sex offence suspects were black males.

Black females also figure highly in knife crimes(45%) and gun crimes(58%).

So it's pretty clear that we have a minority subculture that is responsible for a hugely disproportionate amount of crime...especially violent crime. So it's very much a topic for everybody to comment on. And it's not all about your struggle; it's also about the damage you are inflicting on the rest of society. Or do you think your struggle justifies that damage?

[MTVN]

Well it's not that simple and yes we can comment. It's a free forum. I don't see anybody claiming to know what a black mans struggle is. But when your struggles affect the rest of society it becomes everybodies business.

Clearly there are serious issues that need to be addressed. As I hinted at before, the violent crime statistics in London as regards young black males is shocking:

2009/10 figures

12% of Londons population is black or have a black parent.

67% caught for gun crimes were black.

54% of street robberies(actually proceeded against) were black males.

32% of sex offence suspects were black males.

Black females also figure highly in knife crimes(45%) and gun crimes(58%).

So it's pretty clear that we have a minority subculture that is responsible for a hugely disproportionate amount of crime...especially violent crime. So it's very much a topic for everybody to comment on. And it's not all about your struggle; it's also about the damage you are inflicting on the rest of society. Or do you think your struggle justifies that damage?

You know who's also responsible for a hugely disproportionate amount of crime? Poor people. You have to put those figures into the context of the socio-economic status of black people in this country

[Zippy]

You know who's also responsible for a hugely disproportionate amount of crime? Poor people. You have to put those figures into the context of the socio-economic status of black people in this country

Well there are a huge amount of poor white people in London so the numbers still don't add up.

And you say that as if being poor is an excuse for violent crime. Sorry, I don't get the connection.

[Wildcat!]

I am just gonna post one comment just to give you guys an idea, of how off base you are. I am actually from Senegal, a west Africa country, obviously like 99% black.
My point is, if you go to most of those countries that are majority black, crime is a lot less than any modern country. Broken homes, is not even close, divorce rate is probably like less than 5%. People value education, family, more than anything in the world. Respect, for people, elders, women, are the cornerstone of most of our societies. Our motto is "Teranga" In Wolof it means hospitality. Our national team is called the "Teranga" Lions! We are raised to be the best hosts possible to people who come into our country. They will give you the clothes on their backs, to make you feel comfortable
If you ask any white foreigner, who has ever been there, they will tell you how well they ARE TREAted.

So, maybe you should ask yourself, why is it, that most Black communities, who are a minority in a caucasian society, end up being, the criminals, the ones from broken homes, and the ones who disrespect everything! Could it be, its because of their place in that society, or is it simply like some people are insinuating, because they are Black!!

Well let me tell you, As a Senegalese, outsider, who have lived in the United States, for more than 10 years, in the UK for 5 years, I can tell you, that however black people become in those societies, is a direct reflection of where they were raised. And its not because of poverty only either, because where I am from, people are a lot poorer, and a lot more desperate.

Again, like I said before, I dont like to reply to certain people on this forum, because I know that they are not genuine. They are just here to, yes, post their RACIST, and anti semitic views, and I know who they are. So I apologize if I sounded like I am holier than thou, and my opinion is too good for this forum,its not the case. I have just been down that road, and I know how some of them are, and what their real intentions are.
However, I have read this thread, and it seems some of you guys are actually genuinely trying to have a debate and maybe learn something, so I gladly give you my opinion on the matter.


And let e give you some statistics just when it comes to my country Senegal, from an Articlel I read:

INCIDENCE OF CRIME

The reported crime rate in Senegal is extremely low compared to industrialized countries. An analysis was done using INTERPOL data for Senegal. For purpose of comparison, data were drawn for the seven offenses used to compute the United States FBI's index of crime. Index offenses include murder, forcible rape, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary, larceny, and motor vehicle theft. The combined total of these offenses constitutes the Index used for trend calculation purposes. Senegal will be compared with Japan (country with a low crime rate) and USA (country with a high crime rate). According to the INTERPOL data, for murder, the rate in 2000 was 0.33 per 100,000 population for Senegal, 1.10 for Japan, and 5.51 for USA. For rape, the rate in 2000 was 1.71 for Senegal, compared with 1.78 for Japan and 32.05 for USA. (Data for Senegal are for "sex offences (including rape)", to replace missing data for rape) For robbery, the rate in 2000 was 2.07 for Senegal, 4.08 for Japan, and 144.92 for USA. For aggravated assault, the rate in 2000 was 6.62 for Senegal, 23.78 for Japan, and 323.62 for USA. For burglary, the rate in 2000 was 2.47 for Senegal, 233.60 for Japan, and 728.42 for USA. The rate of larceny for 2000 was 46.98 for Senegal, 1401.26 for Japan, and 2475.27 for USA. The rate for motor vehicle theft in 2000 was 4.11 for Senegal, compared with 44.28 for Japan and 414.17 for USA. The rate for all index offenses combined was 64.29 for Senegal, compared with 1709.88 for Japan and 4123.97 for USA.




YOu can read the rest and other numbers from this link:

http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/rwinslow/africa/senegal.html

[MTVN]

Well there are a huge amount of poor white people in London so the numbers still don't add up.

And you say that as if being poor is an excuse for violent crime. Sorry, I don't get the connection.

Yes but it's very clear that black people are disproporptionately disadvantaged, these figures are for the USA but it isn't that different over here:

African American children are three times more likely to live in poverty than Caucasian children. American Indian/Alaska Native, Hispanic, Pacific Islander, and Native Hawaiian families are more likely than Caucasian and Asian families to live in poverty (Costello, Keeler, & Angold, 2001; National Center for Education Statistics, 2007).

Minorities are more likely to receive high-cost mortgages: African Americans (53 percent) and Latinos (43 percent), in comparison to Caucasians (18 percent) (Logan,2008).

Unemployment rates for African Americans are typically double those of Caucasian Americans. African American men working full time earn 72 percent of the average earnings of comparable Caucasian men and 85 percent of the earnings of Caucasian women (Rodgers, 2008).

And no I'm not saying that being poor is an excuse for crime, I'm saying there's a very clear relationship between the two, poverty and crime are inextricablly linked

[Zippy]

Wildcat

Your point about low crime rates in majority black countries is somewhat misleading. Many of those countries are third world and do not often even have reliable figures. Plus there is often great poverty so the temptations and opportunities for materialistic crime are far less than in western world.

And Jamaica has one of the highest crime and murder rates in the world. Oops, so much for your theory.

[Wildcat!]

Picking up from where I left off, I would like to now compare the two societies I have lived in USA and the UK. Both societies, where Black is a minority.

They both have their problems of racism, and inequalities, but the difference is, the steps taken to rectify or help the situation. I have lived in both places, and I can tell you this, I feel a lot more welcome, and integrated in the US, than in the UK! Black people mix a lot more with other races in the US than they do here. I am not saying they dont have racism and stuff there, they do, very much so. But the point is, they have taken the steps to make a change. I have always felt like Black people in the UK were not oppressed, but suppressed. Like a lot of them dont feel like they should have the same opportunities as the white people. Affirmative action was used in teh US, to help minorities get more jobs, and it actually worked. It gets a lot of criticism, but it worked. a black person growing up in the us know that if they get an education, they have a great chance of belonging to the elite in the society. Not so much here. Of course, its still a work in progress, but the point is, the steps were taken. I feel like the UK is at the same point as the US was back in the 80s, during the LA riots. I could never see something like that ever happening again, because people dont feel that desperate anymore.

The point of this post is that, it seems like people in this country do not want to see anything change. They are happy with the status quo. And I dont see the Black people themselves doing anything to change that. Again, probably because they dont feel entitled.

So to me a big problem is, in the UK, people dont want to hear it! Period.

[lostalex]

Wildcat

Your point about low crime rates in majority black countries is somewhat misleading. Many of those countries are third world and do not often even have reliable figures. Plus there is often great poverty so the temptations and opportunities for materialistic crime are far less than in western world.

And Jamaica has one of the highest crime and murder rates in the world. Oops, so much for your theory.

Eggsactly. He seems to think that the corrupt politicians that lead these african countries actually properly fund and report REAl studies. You must be kidding if you actually believe thjat african countries have lower crime rates. WTF.

Unbelievable. LITERALLY.

[MTVN]

Picking up from where I left off, I would like to now compare the two societies I have lived in USA and the UK. Both societies, where Black is a minority.

They both have their problems of racism, and inequalities, but the difference is, the steps taken to rectify or help the situation. I have lived in both places, and I can tell you this, I feel a lot more welcome, and integrated in the US, than in the UK! Black people mix a lot more with other races in the US than they do here. I am not saying they dont have racism and stuff there, they do, very much so. But the point is, they have taken the steps to make a change. I have always felt like Black people in the UK were not oppressed, but suppressed. Like a lot of them dont feel like they should have the same opportunities as the white people. Affirmative action was used in teh US, to help minorities get more jobs, and it actually worked. It gets a lot of criticism, but it worked. a black person growing up in the us know that if they get an education, they have a great chance of belonging to the elite in the society. Not so much here. Of course, its still a work in progress, but the point is, the steps were taken. I feel like the UK is at the same point as the US was back in the 80s, during the LA riots. I could never see something like that ever happening again, because people dont feel that desperate anymore.

The point of this post is that, it seems like people in this country do not want to see anything change. They are happy with the status quo. And I dont see the Black people themselves doing anything to change that. Again, probably because they dont feel entitled.

So to me a big problem is, in the UK, people dont want to hear it! Period.

Seriously? I mean, I've never lived there of course, but racial divisions in the USA seem far more prominent than here in the UK. Those figures I quoted up above were about the USA from here http://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/factsheet-erm.aspx and it really doesn't look to me like the US is some beacon of racial progressiveness

And the South. There's so much racism in the South, they even still have the Confederacy flag flying above the Louisiana State Courthouse

[Wildcat!]

Wildcat

Your point about low crime rates in majority black countries is somewhat misleading. Many of those countries are third world and do not often even have reliable figures. Plus there is often great poverty so the temptations and opportunities for materialistic crime are far less than in western world.

And Jamaica has one of the highest crime and murder rates in the world. Oops, so much for your theory.


I gave you figures, just to illustrate my point. BUt I actually live there, and I know for a fact that there are hardly ever any crimes there.
In my neighborhood, when I was growing up, if someone is caught stealing, they almost get lynched by the habitant, and they have to run and hide in the police station.

Yes, I understand that there will be exception to the rule, Jamaica, NIgeria for example, but point is, its not because of your race, its because of how you were raised, and where you were raised.

I can guarantee you, if you one day go to university, and meet someone from anywhere in West Africa, they value education, and chances are, they are some of the most intelligent people in the class.
Most of people I know from my country in a foreign school, have the best grades. Its not because they are smarter, but because education is everything to them as to how they were raised.

[Zippy]

Wildcat

Again you make sweeping claims and generalisations. You havent lived in all parts of America Im sure. Just as you do not know the crime stats for all black countries. Maybe you were lucky to be in a black friendly part. Or a part with a huge black population. But there are many parts that are far behind the UK in terms of racial harmony.

And Im pretty sure that mixed relationships were far more acceptable in the UK and Europe long before the US. Indeed, they only seem to have caught up in recent years.

[Wildcat!]

Seriously? I mean, I've never lived there of course, but racial divisions in the USA seem far more prominent than here in the UK. Those figures I quoted up above were about the USA from here http://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/factsheet-erm.aspx and it really doesn't look to me like the US is some beacon of racial progressiveness

And the South. There's so much racism in the South, they even still have the Confederacy flag flying above the Louisiana State Courthouse


See, this is why its always dangerous to listen to what the numbers tell you, or what TV shows you. I have lived, there, and I tell you from experience.

If you have a college degree in the US, an go try to get a job, I believe you have the same chance as anyone to get that job. The thing is, its gonna take some time to change the mentality, that you can only succeed through sport, or entertainment. BUt its getting there.
Affirmative action was that if you have a company that doesnt have a cetain amount of minority working for you, and you have a choice between hiring a white or minority with the same qualification, you had to hire the minority. It was well criticized, but people followed them, or they were heavily penalized financially!

As for the mix of society its a lot more than it is here.
And its not just with white and black, in the UK (london at least), its with everyone. People all live seperately, its like unoficial apartheid!

[MTVN]

See, this is why its always dangerous to listen to what the numbers tell you, or what TV shows you. I have lived, there, and I tell you from experience.

If you have a college degree in the US, an go try to get a job, I believe you have the same chance as anyone to get that job. The thing is, its gonna take some time to change the mentality, that you can only succeed through sport, or entertainment. BUt its getting there.

As for the mix of society its a lot more than it is here.
And its not just with white and black, in the UK (london at least), its with everyone. People all live seperately, its like unoficial apartheid!

Because there's no black ghettos in the US? Come on, the country's well known for racially segregated neighbourhoods in a lot of places. Personally I find statistics more reliable than anecdotal evidence which doesn't really offer a wide perspective

[Wildcat!]

Seriously? I mean, I've never lived there of course, but racial divisions in the USA seem far more prominent than here in the UK. Those figures I quoted up above were about the USA from here http://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/factsheet-erm.aspx and it really doesn't look to me like the US is some beacon of racial progressiveness

And the South. There's so much racism in the South, they even still have the Confederacy flag flying above the Louisiana State Courthouse


And racists are gonna be racists. My point is how much society gives you a chance. Even if someone has a business, and they are racist, they have to follow the law. So those racists had to hire some black people or they were fined!

Like I said, I am not saying there arent racists, just that people fought for their rights, and got at least a fighting chance.

[Wildcat!]

Because there's no black ghettos in the US? Come on, the country's well known for racially segregated neighbourhoods in a lot of places. Personally I find statistics more reliable than anecdotal evidence which doesn't really offer a wide perspective

Of course there are black ghettos. But you cant just use the example of big city ghettos, you have to look a the whole country. I have family everywhere in the US, and I know that there is a lot more racial harmony!

And its not like I am american, I am not here talking up my country, I am telling you from what I have seen. From talking to black people here. Their state of minds, their goals for the future etc. I just feel like a lot of black people here feel like they have no hope. ANd hte worst part, they seem to accept it!

[Wildcat!]

Anyways, thats my 2 and a half cent, I said I wasnt gonna say nothing, but some of you guys deserved an honest opinion.

[lostalex]

Well, to start with I know that in America men don't rape young black girls because they believe it will cure them of AIDS. That's just one very extreme example of the difference.

To compare any part of the USA to Africa is ridiculous. I'm sorry dude, but if you believe it is comparable at all, then maybe you should ask the hundreds of thousands of Africans applying for USA citizenship on refugee status every year.

I wonder how many Americans are applying for african countries citizenship, and how many of them claim to be refugees from this horrible racism that you claim exists in America. I'd really like to know, how many Americans are refugees from America TO africa? As far as i know... ZERO. But if you know differently, let me know.

[lostalex]

Because there's no black ghettos in the US? Come on, the country's well known for racially segregated neighbourhoods in a lot of places. Personally I find statistics more reliable than anecdotal evidence which doesn't really offer a wide perspective

Are you serious? Umm, America is by far the most racially diverse country in the world,. OF course when you have more diversity, you have more racial conflicts. It's stupid to compare the Uk to America, when America has only 52% white population, but UK has 80% white population.

Obviously, the less diversity you have, the less racial conflict you have. Does that mean that LESS diversity is a GOOD thing????

Wow, countries with less races have less racism... who would have thunk it?? DUH!!! lol

FUnny how China has very little racism against blacks.. gee, maybe because they have almost NO black people living there!!!

[Zippy]

And no I'm not saying that being poor is an excuse for crime, I'm saying there's a very clear relationship between the two, poverty and crime are inextricablly linked

My references on this thread are mostly regards VIOLENT crime. That is the real specific worry about black culture. That is more than just about poverty.

There is a cultural leaning towards violence that has nothing to do with the goverment or other outside sources. Its an influence and peer pressure that comes from within black culture itself. It seems they are sucked into a negative way of life at a very young age. Before theyve even had time to start thinking of a career or gaining qualifications.

[MTVN]

Are you serious? Umm, America is by far the most racially diverse country in the world,. OF course when you have more diversity, you have more racial conflicts. It's stupid to compare the Uk to America, when America has only 52% white population, but UK has 80% white population.

Obviously, the less diversity you have, the less racial conflict you have. Does that mean that LESS diversity is a GOOD thing????

Wow, countries with less races have less racism... who would have thunk it?? DUH!!! lol

FUnny how China has very little racism against blacks.. gee, maybe because they have almost NO black people living there!!!

What an awful straw man that is, do you actually follow the thread and the discussion or do you just pull out some quotes out of context and proceed with a bizarre rant?

Racial segregation is not an inevitable consequence of racial diversity like you seem to think it is

[lostalex]

What an awful straw man that is, do you actually follow the thread and the discussion or do you just pull out some quotes out of context and proceed with a bizarre rant?

Racial segregation is not an inevitable consequence of racial diversity like you seem to think it is

so show me then this african country that does racial diversity so much better than the US? South Africa maybe? where they round up Zimbawean immigrants and set them on fire?

That's black south africans setting black zimbaweans on fire, because to south africans, zimbaweans are a different race to them.

But you wanna talk about race relations in America?? seriously?

[ElProximo]

FUnny how China has very little racism against blacks.. gee, maybe because they have almost NO black people living there!!!

China has serious problems with Blacks where they do live. Africans living in China overstay their visas and to be perfectly honest have been causing plenty of trouble in China.
As usual, when Chinese authorities simply try and apply the laws (and actually LESS strictly than they do on their own people) there are near riots in the streets.
uZ1y3346Ppg
Keep in mind his African mates decided, rather than immediately rush him to a hospital, decide to dance his dying body.

China has serious and horrifying 'race riots' which, surprise surprise, involve 'Turks' (Muslims).
I can post the LEAST horrifying videos and in a way this is a huge lesson to those thinking they have it bad because police in the UK may shoot you if you try and shoot them:
Here they storm streets murdering and beating Han Chinese (girls, men whatever):
z61RbRJFJPw

I have personally been pulled from crowds after Muslims attempted to cajole and aggravate the crowd into racist taunts and trouble at me.
I've also met and shaken hands with Muslims in China happy to meet a westerner for the first time.
I have also been subjected to all kinds of racist slurs, mocking my physical appearance (skin colour, native british facial features etc) by Han Chinese.

Chinese have all manner of racist incidents as broadly as 'Cantonese versus Mandarin' kinds of pointless nonsense,
or,
all kinds of various incidents between some 50 different ethnicities around China which can go as far as 'race riots' to murders.

In the broader spectrum - the racism between Japanese, Koreans and Chinese would BLOW YOUR MIND.
It is a level so FAR BEYOND anything you see in the highly over-sensitive UK as to become downright comical.
Someone on TV mentions 'nappy hair' in the USA and you would think a nation mourns in self-shame.
In China there are words for Japanese (and vice-versa) that make '******' seem like a compliment.

On the bright side. They could care less if someone calls them 'chink' or some adorable funny endearing word compared to what they consider 'real racism'.
They have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA why someone on UK television is 'apologizing to India' for a bad impersonation.

..which reminds me. we don't have time to get into the most outrageous racism between Indians and Chinese.

Anyways, not really disagreeing with you but just thought I'd share.

[Livia]

How is that sad? Go on then, tell me what its like to spend a week in the shoes of a young black male, who doesnt know his father, his mums works for a minimum wage, lives in a council estate in Hackney, doesnt have a job dispite applying constantly, and routinly gets pulled and harassed by police for no good reason.

I can't tell you exactly what it's like to spend a week in the shoes of a young black male. And if it's never discussed, how will I ever know fully? You seem to be annoyed that people are discussing it, but that's how people learn about each other and their problems. Nothing will ever be solved by people not learning about each other because they're frightened of upsetting you, and you do seem really upset.

If I can't learn about your struggles, I will end up as misinformed and ignorant of your culture as you clearly are of mine. How will that ever help any of us to understand each other?

[InOne]

None of the questions of the OP have really been answered, I guess there isn't one :joker:

But like people have said there have been all sorts of discrimination, prejudice and racism to all sorts of ethnic groups. There has to be more to it than "being black" Yes poverty is an issue but seems like an endless cycle at the moment.

[Zippy]

LOL thats not the post I remember seeing before ^

[InOne]

LOL thats not the post I remember seeing before ^

Look at the edit reason :tongue:

[lostalex]

Anyways, not really disagreeing with you but just thought I'd share.

Very enlightening.

[letmein]

America is by far more racially progressive and aware. The country has a black man as President for god's sake! That would never happen in Europe -- at least not anytime soon. Yes, the US has a problem with racism, just like every other country in the world. However, the problems are more out in the open and discussed, and minority groups are protected. America is the only country that is officially a melting pot. It's amazing that the place didn't implode due to having so many different cultures all living under the same roof. Europe is a million times more racist than America. What flies in Europe, would never fly in the US. The US has had to deal with race relations because everyone is so diverse. In Europe, racism is more easily swept under the carpet, and the population is more ignorant when it comes to people who are not of the same background as themselves. Look at Germany. They still believe that the Jews have too much influence. Some things never change. In America, speech is protected, even hate speech. With this taken into account, minorities have still been able to survive since the public has been forcibly educated on ethnic differences. Europe is having problems adapting to the melting pot model. Its countries are not used to diversity. One only has to look towards America to see how it can actually work and be beneficial. America, which is a much younger country, is light years ahead of the rest of the world, which is light years older. It's extraordinary.

[Wildcat!]

America is by far more racially progressive and aware. The country has a black man as President for god's sake! That would never happen in Europe -- at least not anytime soon. Yes, the US has a problem with racism, just like every other country in the world. However, the problems are more out in the open and discussed, and minority groups are protected. America is the only country that is officially a melting pot. It's amazing that the place didn't implode due to having so many different cultures all living under the same roof. Europe is a million times more racist than America. What flies in Europe, would never fly in the US. The US has had to deal with race relations because everyone is so diverse. In Europe, racism is more easily swept under the carpet, and the population is more ignorant when it comes to people who are not of the same background as themselves. Look at Germany. They still believe that the Jews have too much influence. Some things never change. In America, speech is protected, even hate speech. With this taken into account, minorities have still been able to survive since the public has been forcibly educated on ethnic differences. Europe is having problems adapting to the melting pot model. Its countries are not used to diversity. One only has to look towards America to see how it can actually work and be beneficial. America, which is a much younger country, is light years ahead of the rest of the world, which is light years older. It's extraordinary.

Very good post! And thats my point. It doesnt seem like people over here want to change anything. They'd rather say, no, there is no racism, an tell you to shut up, if you are pointing it out. There is racism everywhere, like I said, but in the US, like you said, they arent afraid, to talk about it, educate people about other races, etc.... Thats whats lacking here. The attitude is, listemn, you are a guest in our country, so be happy that you are here at least! The attitude, in my opinion comes from the fact that the US belonged to the native americans, and the europeans, in fact are also immigrants, so they dont feel entitled like they do in Europe. In Europe, you actually feel like a guest if you are Black, even if you are British, at least from what I have observed. IN the US, I know for a fact they all feel like americans, even though they know racism is alive and well, they just deal with it, as americans.

[Zippy]

The black population of the UK is just 2%.The black population of Americas is about 13%. Blacks are the second biggest racial group there. Numbers equals power. Over 95% of blacks voted Obama to victory, for example.

Black people did not really start to populate this country significantly until post second world war. But in America they have had a significant presence for hundreds of years. Even back in the 18th century they made up a massive 20% of the US population. Yes, largely due to slavery for the most part but it's still a presence. But as a result of slavery they have had a very long running succession of laws and regulations put in place to protect their rights. The UK or other European countries cannot compete with that foundation or history.

And it wasnt until very recently that blacks got a foothold in power; the first elected governor wasn't until 1989. That's a long long wait to be acknowledged considering they are the 2nd biggest racial group. As for Barack, well here's his mother;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/Stanley_Ann_Dunham_1960_Mercer_Island_High_School_ yearbook.jpg

that must have been one hell of a flash to make her look white. Oh wait, she is white!

And if you wanna pretend that America is now some idealistic wonderland of racial harmony then..GOOD LUCK WITH THAT! Try googling the words race, America, inequality, ghetto, low pay, poverty, crime, statistics, education. Happy reading.

Then go view the LA riots on youtube. Makes the UK riots look like a teddy bears picnic. The Uk riots were not race on race.

[lostalex]

And if you wanna pretend that America is now some idealistic wonderland of racial harmony then..GOOD LUCK WITH THAT! Try googling the words race, America, inequality, ghetto, low pay, poverty, crime, statistics, education. Happy reading.

Then go view the LA riots on youtube. Makes the UK riots look like a teddy bears picnic. The Uk riots were not race on race.

I disagree on all counts. Googling race in America, first of all google anything ab out America and you will find more articles, simply because the US media is far larger and more sophisticated than any other country, also because America talks about race and analyzes itself more than other country. No other country is as self-reflective as America, we are constantly studying ourselves, no other country puts more money and resources into studying itself.

Foreign people complain about the fact that America is too insular, and Americans only know about America, and don't focus much on the rest of the world, well maybe other countries should start analyzing themselves and talking about themselves more like America does. If they did, i think they'd find the same problems in their own backyard.

Instead they'd rather just focus on America, and ignore their own problems. It's easy to forget your own problems when you are more interested in Britney Spears' problems.

[Wildcat!]

I disagree on all counts. Googling race in America, first of all google anything ab out America and you will find more articles, simply because the US media is far larger and more sophisticated than any other country, also because America talks about race and analyzes itself more than other country. No other country is as self-reflective as America, we are constantly studying ourselves, no other country puts more money and resources into studying itself.

Foreign people complain about the fact that America is too insular, and Americans only know about America, and don't focus much on the rest of the world, well maybe other countries should start analyzing themselves and talking about themselves more like America does. If they did, i think they'd find the same problems in their own backyard.

Instead they'd rather just focus on America, and ignore their own problems. It's easy to forget your own problems when you are more interested in Britney Spears' problems.


Very good analysis, I never thought about the insular thing, but its a good point. ANd every other country is kind of obsessed with america.

Another problem with that is, unless you actually live somewhere, you dont really know how the people really are. To me, the way they portray america, or americans in the press here, is nothing like when you meet or live with the average american. I have always found them very caring, welcoming, and good in general. They also are a lot more religious than Europeans, which can explain certain things.

[InOne]

I don't get why this thread has turned into something about racism? It's clearly not a race war or anything over here, black kids are killing eachother over postcodes, it's like a community imploding on itself.

[Zippy]

I disagree on all counts. Googling race in America, first of all google anything ab out America and you will find more articles, simply because the US media is far larger and more sophisticated than any other country, also because America talks about race and analyzes itself more than other country. No other country is as self-reflective as America, we are constantly studying ourselves, no other country puts more money and resources into studying itself.

Foreign people complain about the fact that America is too insular, and Americans only know about America, and don't focus much on the rest of the world, well maybe other countries should start analyzing themselves and talking about themselves more like America does. If they did, i think they'd find the same problems in their own backyard.

Instead they'd rather just focus on America, and ignore their own problems. It's easy to forget your own problems when you are more interested in Britney Spears' problems.

Well most of this is a Captain obvious moment.

Yeah yeah, trust me, we're all very aware of how Americans just love to talk about themselves. And analyse themselves round and round in circles until theyre even more screwed up than they were to begin with. Does it solve your problems? No!

And I never said anything about the amount of articles to be found on Google. I was just pointing towards all the info highlighting the issues in America. If you want to act like theyve all been solved then you a crazy bitch. Its not even just about blacks; there are huge issues with hispanics and Asians. They don't all get along with each other. Then there's the whole other issue of black on black crime.

The USA black prison population % is 5 times the black nationl population. But yeah, you got it all sussed.

[lostalex]

And it wasnt until very recently that blacks got a foothold in power; the first elected governor wasn't until 1989. That's a long long wait to be acknowledged considering they are the 2nd biggest racial group.


Just out of curiosity, what year was the first black MP elected? ( I know it's not comperable because US governors are not the same as MP's, MP's are more like US congressmen, when was the first US black congressman elected?)

You're post is not very complete when it comes to viewing things in relativity. It would be nice if you put your comments into some kind of context.

[lostalex]

Its not even just about blacks; there are huge issues with hispanics and Asians. They don't all get along with each other. Then there's the whole other issue of black on black crime.

The USA black prison population % is 5 times the black nationl population. But yeah, you got it all sussed.

Hispanic is not a race, most latin Americans are White/European decent, Asians are doing fine, in fact actually Asians are doing even better than the average white/european American, infact there is actually a disproportionately HIGH amount of asians in the US University system. so i don't know what you're talking about.

You wanna talk about disproprtionate prison populations, why don't you talk about the first nations proportion in Canadian prisons, or about the same disproportions in UK prisons and all across europe. or about the disproportionate number of Aborigionals in Australian prisons? Why are you singling out America?

Oh wait, you prolly don't know about that, cause yur only interested in and focused on America, you actually havn't looked at the proportions of OTHER countries, have you?

[MTVN]

Just out of curiosity, what year was the first black MP elected? ( I know it's not comperable because US governors are not the same as MP's, MP's are more like US congressmen, when was the first US black congressman elected?)

You're post is not very complete when it comes to viewing things in relativity. It would be nice if you put your comments into some kind of context.

We had an Asian MP in 1892

[lostalex]

We had an Asian MP in 1892

Care to elaborate? lol what a minimalist post.

[Zippy]

Jesus christ

you're babbling about Ameriac this and America that and then you ask why Im talking about America? I didnt bring America into this. Go look back.

And Hispanic is a bloody race. Your white/eurpopean tag is absolute BS. No hispanic would refer to themselves as that!

and the first black UK elected MP was in 1987.

[lostalex]

Jesus christ

you're babbling about Ameriac this and America that and then you ask why Im talking about America? I didnt bring America into this. Go look back.

And Hispanic is a bloody race. Your white/eurpopean tag is absolute BS. No hispanic would refer to themselves as that!

and the first UK elected MP was in 1987.

Hispanic is not a race. DO you consider Spanish and italian and greek and MEDITERRANEAN to be a race? NO, they are white. They are european. Hispanics are no more a race than USAmerican is a race.

There are black latinos, white latinos and asian latinos. None of which are native to South America.



And i didn't bring America into this. You're the one that needs to go back and read the thread.

[Zippy]

Hispanic is not a race. DO you consider Spanish and italian and greek and MEDITERRANEAN to be a race? NO, they are white. They are european.

And i didn't bring america into this. You're the one that needs to go back and read the thread.

I never said you did. You have an annoying habit of making irrelevant points. Pay attention.

Hispanics are a huge and very powerful racial group in America and you damn well know it. Quit being pedantic it aint pretty. You know who Im referring to.

[lostalex]

It's impossible to comare elected officials in the US and UK anyway, because the UK doesn't actually have a democratic system./ IN the UK political parties can just appoint MP'
s and there is no democratic vote like primaries nhere in the US.

Even if there is a Black PM some day, it won't mean anything, because the political party decides who is their leader, not the people of the UK. The British people never elected Gordon Brown but he was PM.

[lostalex]

I never said you did. You have an annoying habit of making irrelevant points. Pay attention.

Hispanics are a huge and very powerful racial group in America and you damn well know it. Quit being pedantic it aint pretty. You know who Im referring to.

It's not any kind of racial group because HIspanic is NOT a race... you obviously arn't paying attention, so why am i wasting my time?

[Zippy]

It's not any kind of racial group because HIspanic is NOT a race... you obviously arn't paying attention, so why am i wasting my time?

and were you not the clever little that spoke of the American race?

yeah, because Americans are not diverse at all. Try being consistent for once.

There are a a huge percentage of Americans who refer to themselves as Hispanic. Or black. Or Asian. In the context of my original point, that is all that matters; point being that they are different groups that do not get along in harmony.

[lostalex]

and were you not the clever little bitch that spoke of the American race?



Wow, resorting to name calling, you must be very intelligent.

Arn't there rules on this forum against that? I've gotten infractions for far less.

Anyways, if you want to learn what LATINO means, read a book about the Roman Empire. I'm not going to waste my time trying to educate you about the Latin countries and their colonialism into South America. The fact that they all speak spanish and are catholic should give you some clue, but you probably havnt made the connection yet.

[Kerry]

Right, I'm not reading the entire thread but have seen enough. Argue your points but do NOT resort to insults, abuse or taunting

[lostalex]

Right, I'm not reading the entire thread but have seen enough. Argue your points but do NOT resort to insults, abuse or taunting

I edited myself. :)

[Kerry]

I edited myself. :)

Thankyou :)

[Livia]

I have been racially abused on this forum many times, but only by two individuals, interestingly, neither of them British.

[lostalex]

I have been racially abused on this forum many times, but only by two individuals, interestingly, neither of them British.
Which race are you?

[SoBig]

Jesus christ

you're babbling about Ameriac this and America that and then you ask why Im talking about America? I didnt bring America into this. Go look back.

And Hispanic is a bloody race. Your white/eurpopean tag is absolute BS. No hispanic would refer to themselves as that!

and the first black UK elected MP was in 1987.

Dude you are sounding so ignorant. Hispanic is definitely NOT A RACE. You can be white, Asian, black, native american or mixed and be Hispanic. Hispanic basically means that you are from a Spanish speaking country thats NOT SPAIN.

[SoBig]

Jesus christ

you're babbling about Ameriac this and America that and then you ask why Im talking about America? I didnt bring America into this. Go look back.

And Hispanic is a bloody race. Your white/eurpopean tag is absolute BS. No hispanic would refer to themselves as that!

and the first black UK elected MP was in 1987.
No you are wrong. Most Hispanics are of European descent. Mostly Portuguese and Spanish.

Example Puerto Rico and Mexico. Most Mexicans are White, Native American or mixed with both. Puerto Ricans are usually White, White/Native American, Black, White/black/native american, or White/black.

Dominican Republic. Majority of Dominicans are of African descent.

You can be any race and be a Hispanic.

[Zippy]

somebodies been googling and wiki-ing away..

technicalities aside, my main point stands. Some can't see the wood for the trees.

[SoBig]

Googling and wikiing?

Hispanic not being a race is common knowledge. It's like knowing that Canadian and American aren't races, but nationalities. Only ignorant people think that they are races.

[Zippy]

Only ignorant people think that they are races.

who the hell cares?

if you think branding hispanics a race is any big deal you wanna get out more. I only used it to signify a certain group so whether they are a race or not is not that relevant to my point.

and yes you clearly have been googling for info. But pretend you posted all that off the top of your head if it suits.

[Cromwell1900]

Risky topic OP, good on you for having the Balls to open it up, iv not had chance to read all the replies but on many Forums you'd have the PC dunce's on your back.

Are black people as a group doing well anywhere? People say it because of racism, but even in countries where they are the majority, they don't seem to do well. Africa is by far the poorest continent in the world. East asians seem to do great in majority white countries, so you can't blame racism for lack of social mobility. Jews have been horribly oppressed, but they seem to do just fine. I think there is more to it than just racism.

It's an interesting question, and unfortunately i think because of political correctness one that will not be answered anytime soon.

I Don't think it's Political Correctness preventing a discussion on Africans being naturally under achievers which appears to be the suggestion coming from you. Rather investigate what the Belgiuns did to the Hutu's & Tutsis
Maybe you will see one Example of why Africa's poverty is not down to it's people. I do agree though Black Youth aren't doing as well as Asians or Jew's in the UK and that Racism is'nt the reason

It is telling to compare the way Jews, Asians have fared in the UK vs Jamaican's, African's and I'm not sure why some people think Black people have not integrated. Turn on your Tv and if it's not a White face you see it's a Black face. Go to a Social gathering i.e a Club and you'll see many Black faces, at Work there is a proportional number of Black people working there. There is a Jewish community near where i live and they seem incredibly happy with there lives, they don't fight with each other, or steal from their neighbour, take drugs, or take part in riots because they want the latest pair of Nike. Yet to any measure i think is relevant they have not integrated into the English way of life. Traveling through their Town feels like going to a different Country. The Shops have different names, There clothes are different, Hairstyles, Food. Maybe they are successful because they have NOT Integrated, likewise with Asians who give jobs to each other via word of mouth rather than adverts at the Job Centre.

Black Urban Youth is White Urban Youth the excuses are different that's all
If your Black it's Racism if your White it's no Jobs Urban Youth seem to be growing up without rational thoughts and a fear of consequence. The question is how to fix Urban Youth.


On a side note The Riots we're not a Gang thing. I was fascinated to hear after the riots, Politicians talking about "Parts of our society is broken". I thought what a massive statement. Truly we are at one of those watershed moments in history which inspires momentus change, that at last Politicians were going to open up the festering can of worms that is the inability of large numbers of our youth to simply think rational thoughts. I should of known better and when i heard them talking about Gang Culture i did. Politicians are expert at conceptualizing, repackaging, and selling us a false reality. So there going to try and cure cancer with an Asprin and in 10 years we'll do it all again, rinse repeat ad infinitum.

[SoBig]

and yes you clearly have been googling for info. But pretend you posted all that off the top of your head if it suits.

Got to love the ignorant. :bored:

I guess its because you've always been stuck in the UK for your entire life and don't know what the world outside the UK is like. You probably have never even met a Hispanic person in your life. I've actually lived in the USA and been to PR several times in the last ten years.

Maybe you should be googling for info, because you are clearly misinformed.

[Zippy]

Got to love the ignorant. :bored:

I guess its because you've always been stuck in the UK for your entire life and don't know what the world outside the UK is like. You probably have never even met a Hispanic person in your life. I've actually lived in the USA and been to PR several times in the last ten years.

Maybe you should be googling for info, because you are clearly misinformed.

what the hell has meeting hispanic people got to do with the definition of what one is? This "Ive met hispanics/americans therefore Im now an expert on them" is such a laughable argument. A bit like claiming you know black people because youve met a few. Im sure you'd love that suggestion, right?

And Hispanics make up over 17% of the US population. They happily refer to themselves as hispanic. Not Asian, not Black. So back to my original reference my point stands that they do not all mix.

but keep getting hung up on semantics if you think you're winning points. And yes you did look up that info about hispanics...its obvious from your wording that its lifted from elsewhere. :xyxwave:

[Grimnir]

depends on what type of family they come from and their intelligence

if they are thick AND come from a **** family, they are gonna be a ****

if they are intelligent and come from decent family, there is very good chance they will become decent respectable member of society

[keithafc]

If your not black then you cannot comment on the struggle of a black man or black youth. Its that simple. Can cant even begin to understand someones stuggle unless you have been through it, and its something you never have or ever will go through. Im not saying you dont have stuggles as a white man, asian man, whatever, but the struggles are different. I dont know or understand your stuggle, you dont understand mine.
Everyone in the UK now has the choice to get a job and to work and do what they want. Freedom of choice, colour or religion. It makes no difference. I think a lot of people of all colours are suffering now but i think it is fair if some people on here think black people have a bigger problem with it than say white people.