Next year: All-Stars, new cast, or mixed?

[Roy Mars III]

Okay, even though this season isn't over, I can't help but think of next year. So I have to ask, what would you like for next year: Full blown All-stars, a whole new cast, or mixed vets and newbies like this year?

[Wildcat!]

I dont like the mix. I still think veterans, always have a huge advantage on rookies. Even on Survior, like Boston Rob and Russell last season. They have too much advantage.
All Stars is great, I dont mind that, in fact, I would love to see a proper all stars pretty soon, like BB7. \just make sure there arent too many people from the same season.

[Wildcat!]

I dont like the mix. I still think veterans, always have a huge advantage on rookies. Even on Survior, like Boston Rob and Russell last season. They have too much advantage.
All Stars is great, I dont mind that, in fact, I would love to see a proper all stars pretty soon, like BB7. \just make sure there arent too many people from the same season.

[Roy Mars III]

Agreed. I'm not a fan of the vets and newbies playing together. I much rather have a full blown All-Stars.

[Callum]

We had a thread asking the same question a few weeks back. I voted newbies and still stand by that, I don't want another All-Stars yet considering we've had previous contestants in BB13.

[Roy Mars III]

I think cbs is scared that a full cast of newbies will result in another season 12, so they rely on players from other seasons to make the season interesting. They're doing it with survivor as well. Rather just have all newbies or just All-stars.

[SoBig]

Full blown all-stars. I want the BEST PLAYERS EVER to play. Not who maybe funny and have the most fans like they did in BB7. Players like Chicken George, Howie, Mike Boogie and Kaysar had no business being in all-stars.

[Roy Mars III]

Mike was only there because it was the only way Will would play. And I agree about the other three. Marvin, from BB5, should've invited.

[SoBig]

I dont like the mix. I still think veterans, always have a huge advantage on rookies. Even on Survior, like Boston Rob and Russell last season. They have too much advantage.
All Stars is great, I dont mind that, in fact, I would love to see a proper all stars pretty soon, like BB7. \just make sure there arent too many people from the same season.
Well Boston Rob had an advantage, but Russell surely didn't. Those fools even threw a competition so that they could vote out Russell. Glad that came back and bit them in the behind. :bored:

[Roy Mars III]

Getting Russell out hurt that tribe in the long run. It was like in All-Stars when the tribe voted out Richard Hatch. It was more about voting off the godfather of survivor than it was a game move. And in the long run it hurt them.

[rk3388]

its gonna be an all new cast, i dont think theyll make the same mistake as this season and an all all star cast is already ruled out

[LemonJam]

They just need an all new cast that aren't afraid of making moves. The problem with BB12 is that they were even too scared to make freaking alliances. Just put in 14 people who're interesting, willing to play the game and have no fear of how they're perceived.

[Bluerang1]

I was looking forward to a new cast this year but it was great to see Brenchel again. New cast next year please.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Getting Russell out hurt that tribe in the long run. It was like in All-Stars when the tribe voted out Richard Hatch. It was more about voting off the godfather of survivor than it was a game move. And in the long run it hurt them.

I hope you're calling Richard the godfather and not Russell. Because Russell sucks at Survivor. End of story.

[001steven]

would be good to have an all stars as it would 7 series after the 1st all stars.

[Firewire]

BB14 Casting Calls have been announced, so that rules out All-Stars.

Full new cast please.

[Marc]

Well this season has kinda encroached into All Stars so I reckon next one should be all new people

[lostalex]

There's no way there will be another all-stars for atleast the next 2 or 3 years. Just based on how they do it in Survivor and Amazing Race, there will definitely be atleast 2 years of all new cast.

I'm sure that The producers consider this to be the equivelant of an all-stars, so they won't do it twice in a row.

[BBfanUSA]

BB14 Casting Calls have been announced, so that rules out All-Stars.

Full new cast please.

They did that for all stars too then they said screw it

[Roy Mars III]

I hope you're calling Richard the godfather and not Russell. Because Russell sucks at Survivor. End of story.

Yeah, I meant Richard Hatch as the godfather. I'm not the biggest Russell hater in the world, but I'm no fan.

[swinearefine]

BB14 should be a regular series; BB15 should be 'Ultimate Big Brother' or something" with like 16 people from BB2 to BB14.

[SoBig]

Mike was only there because it was the only way Will would play. And I agree about the other three. Marvin, from BB5, should've invited.
Disagree. I don't think Marvin was that good of a player. Average at best.

Jun, Nicole(BB2), Drew and Maggie should have all made all-stars.

[Roy Mars III]

Disagree. I don't think Marvin was that good of a player. Average at best.

Jun, Nicole(BB2), Drew and Maggie should have all made all-stars.

He wasn't, I just found him hilarious.

Jun and Nicole were both asked back, but turned it down, I believe.

[SoBig]

I hope you're calling Richard the godfather and not Russell. Because Russell sucks at Survivor. End of story.

:laugh3::laugh3::laugh3::laugh3:

Russell Hantz is the greatest Survivor player ever. End of story.

LMAO @ saying he sucks.

[SoBig]

Getting Russell out hurt that tribe in the long run. It was like in All-Stars when the tribe voted out Richard Hatch. It was more about voting off the godfather of survivor than it was a game move. And in the long run it hurt them.

That whole team was a bunch of idiots.

They made so many stupid decisions. Its mind boggling.

1. Voting out your best swimmer (Hatch)
2. Voting out your best competitor (Colby)
3. Voting out out one of your best players (Ethan)
4. Voting OUT YOUR OWN TRIBE MEMBER INSTEAD OF THE OTHER TEAMS (Jerri)

Honestly, that tribe has to go down as one of the dumbest, if not the dumbest in Survivor history.

[BBfanUSA]

Jun was offered but she never got the message b4 it was too late that's why she hosted one of the veto comps and she can't do it next year anyway. She just annouced on her twitter account she's pregnant

[Roy Mars III]

I think Jun's father died so she didn't want to do it. So we got Erika. :yuk:

[Roy Mars III]

:laugh3::laugh3::laugh3::laugh3:

Russell Hantz is the greatest Survivor player ever. End of story.

LMAO @ saying he sucks.

I wouldn't call him the best(he's never won), but he's definitely one of them, especially from a strategic view point.

The Ice man(Brian Heidik) will always be the best survivor player for me. Even if he only played one season, and a somewhat boring one.

[Lostie!]

Newbies. I like getting to know the new cast, forming opinions, etc.

[Macie Lightfoot]

:laugh3::laugh3::laugh3::laugh3:

Russell Hantz is the greatest Survivor player ever. End of story.

LMAO @ saying he sucks.

Explain why he's the greatest ever. He hasn't won, he's never going to win, he's an awful player. He is his own downfall and he doesn't even realize that :joker: You don't get how Survivor works if you think he's the best player ever.

[SoBig]

I don't want to hear **** about winning.

Will was the best player in BB7, did he win? Do you think Mike Boogie was a better player than him?

Do you honestly believe that Rachel is a better player than Danielle Bb3 and Danielle BB8?

We all damn well know that the best player gets robbed in survivor every 2 years or so.

Tina beating Colby in 2.

Amber beating Rob in 8

Natalie beating Russell in 19.

The list goes on and on.

I put very little stock in how the jury votes at the end, because most of the time they are bitter. They can't deal with the fact that they were outwitted, outplayed and outlasted.

Russell destroys anyone when it comes to strategies and manipulating people.

[swinearefine]

I don't want to hear **** about winning.

Will was the best player in BB7, did he win? Do you think Mike Boogie was a better player than him?

Do you honestly believe that Rachel is a better player than Danielle Bb3 and Danielle BB8?

We all damn well know that the best player gets robbed in survivor every 2 years or so.

Tina beating Colby in 2.

Amber beating Rob in 8

Natalie beating Russell in 19.

The list goes on and on.

I put very little stock in how the jury votes at the end, because most of the time they are bitter. They can't deal with the fact that they were outwitted, outplayed and outlasted.

Russell destroys anyone when it comes to strategies and manipulating people.

I hate when idiots say that the jury votes wrong. Is it really that hard to comprehend that the game does NOT end when you make the finals? The point is to make sure you have the jury votes to win. Stupid people such as Russell Hanz realize that that is a task a bit beyond their thinking capabilities, so they backstab and lie just to stroke their egos and make them feel powerful, and then when they inevitably lose in the end, they bitch and moan like little pussies that the jury voted wrong. What's worse than these idiotic players is the equally idiotic fanbases who worship them for some reason and then proceed to spread their moronic logic on forums and discredit actual strategists such as Sandra and Natalie. I wish people could just grasp the basic concept of survivor: make it to the end and garner the most jury votes. THAT IS ALL. You don't have to be a trollish little ***** and parade around like a big shot spinning a web of lies and making countless enemies of the people you vote off. I understood this when I watched survivor for the first time when I was 12.

Sorry for the rant but I'm in a balls mood and I'm sick of hearing the same lunacy over and over by people who can't grasp a VERY simple concept. The moronic fanbase of Survivor is one of the reasons I stopped watching after Nicaragua.

Rant is over.

[Roy Mars III]

Colby was an idiot, and brought the wrong person to the final, and deserved to lose because of it.

Rob did deserve to win, I'll give you that.

Russel would've won if he didn't act like an aggressive asshole all throughout the game.

Maybe it's just me, but I can think of someone as the best player, unless they win. There have been people who've played similar aggressive games like Russel, Brian Heidik and Chris Daugherty and still won.

[swinearefine]

Rob did deserve to win, I'll give you that.

Rob should have been smarter - being All-Stars, the jury all had HUGE egos. They weren't gonna let Rob backstab them all and then vote for him. His problem, no theirs.


Maybe it's just me, but I can think of someone as the best player, unless they win. There have been people who've played similar aggressive games like Russel, Brian Heidik and Chris Daugherty and still won.

That would be because every jury is different. You need to work to get the members of the jury to vote for you.

[Roy Mars III]

Rob should have been smarter - being All-Stars, the jury all had HUGE egos. They weren't gonna let Rob backstab them all and then vote for him. His problem, no theirs.

Rob, in reality, should've took Jenna with him. He would have beat her easily. But he chose 'love' instead.


That would be because every jury is different. You need to work to get the members of the jury to vote for you.

True. You also have to take someone you can beat. Brian Heidik, for example, took someone who half the jury thought was racist and sexist.

And I think Natalie White is somewhat underrated as a player. She didn't make and moves or gameplays, but at the same time, she was smart enough to basically tag after Russel knowing he'd piss off enough people, that she could get Anti-Russel votes at the jury. And she did.

[swinearefine]

And I think Natalie White is somewhat underrated as a player. She didn't make and moves or gameplays, but at the same time, she was smart enough to basically tag after Russel knowing he'd piss off enough people, that she could get Anti-Russel votes at the jury. And she did.

Exactly! Natalie was a great winner. Coat tail riding is a perfectly fine strategy. She completely outsmarted Russell, just like Sandra did in HIV.

[Macie Lightfoot]

I don't want to hear **** about winning.

Will was the best player in BB7, did he win? Do you think Mike Boogie was a better player than him?

Do you honestly believe that Rachel is a better player than Danielle Bb3 and Danielle BB8?

We all damn well know that the best player gets robbed in survivor every 2 years or so.

Tina beating Colby in 2.

Amber beating Rob in 8

Natalie beating Russell in 19.

The list goes on and on.

I put very little stock in how the jury votes at the end, because most of the time they are bitter. They can't deal with the fact that they were outwitted, outplayed and outlasted.

Russell destroys anyone when it comes to strategies and manipulating people.

No we don't o_o Tina and Colby were evenly respected, and Rob and Russell both suffered from the same mistakes. They were openly assholes. An asshole will never win Survivor, plain and simple. Russell even said that the reason he picked to work with Natalie over Liz was because Natalie was better with people and could get good with the Jury. He knowingly aligned with a Jury threat and brought her to the finals! That's completely asinine. He's made countless mistakes every season and has blinders on, convincing himself that he's the best. He's far from it, it sucks.

[Roy Mars III]

No we don't o_o Tina and Colby were evenly respected, and Rob and Russell both suffered from the same mistakes. They were openly assholes. An asshole will never win Survivor, plain and simple. Russell even said that the reason he picked to work with Natalie over Liz was because Natalie was better with people and could get good with the Jury. He knowingly aligned with a Jury threat and brought her to the finals! That's completely asinine. He's made countless mistakes every season and has blinders on, convincing himself that he's the best. He's far from it, it sucks.

I think they can. You just have to hid how big of an asshole you really are.

[Macie Lightfoot]

I think they can. You just have to hid how big of an asshole you really are.

Lemme rephrase myselef: An outright, known asshole will never win. Someone who is abrasive.

[Roy Mars III]

True. Though one could argue that Brian Heidik is probably one of the biggest assholes to ever play the game, but he still won. Of course, he was against a 'supposed' racist in the final 2, and still only won by one vote.

And Chris Daugherty, as another example. Though those are really the only two, if I remember correctly.

[Macie Lightfoot]

True. Though one could argue that Brian Heidik is probably one of the biggest assholes to ever play the game, but he still won. Of course, he was against a 'supposed' racist in the final 2, and still only won by one vote.

And Chris Daugherty, as another example. Though those are really the only two, if I remember correctly.

Right. Brian was pretty much a sociopath, but at the end of the day, he was still respected. The three votes for Clay were partly because Brian made no attempt to get to know the Jurors on a personal level. It also helps that Clay was even more unlikable than Brian.

I don't think Chris was really much of an asshole, but that's all debatable. Twila was hated by all the females and Chris read them perfectly. Seriously, Chris's Jury performance was one of the best ever, IMO.

But yeah, what I was really trying to get at what that when it's a nice, inoffensive player is teamed up with abrasive assholes, it's common sense that the nice guy's gonna win. You let the abrasive one take all your bullets and use them as a smokescreen. Ethan did with Lex, Vecepia did it with Sean, and then Amber did with Rob and Natalie did it with Russell. It's not hard to understand, unless your name is Russell Hantz, I suppose. He didn't get that he knowingly brought a Jury threat (he even acknowledges it) along for the ride with him, and she was smart enough to play a strong social game and let Russell make his own mistakes. It may not be cutthroat, some people may say it's boring, but it's sure as hell effective and respectable.

[SoBig]

I hate when idiots say that the jury votes wrong. Is it really that hard to comprehend that the game does NOT end when you make the finals? The point is to make sure you have the jury votes to win. Stupid people such as Russell Hanz realize that that is a task a bit beyond their thinking capabilities, so they backstab and lie just to stroke their egos and make them feel powerful, and then when they inevitably lose in the end, they bitch and moan like little pussies that the jury voted wrong. What's worse than these idiotic players is the equally idiotic fanbases who worship them for some reason and then proceed to spread their moronic logic on forums and discredit actual strategists such as Sandra and Natalie. I wish people could just grasp the basic concept of survivor: make it to the end and garner the most jury votes. THAT IS ALL. You don't have to be a trollish little ***** and parade around like a big shot spinning a web of lies and making countless enemies of the people you vote off. I understood this when I watched survivor for the first time when I was 12.

Sorry for the rant but I'm in a balls mood and I'm sick of hearing the same lunacy over and over by people who can't grasp a VERY simple concept. The moronic fanbase of Survivor is one of the reasons I stopped watching after Nicaragua.

Rant is over.

I hate when idiots say that the jury is always right. :rolleyes: You know how many people that are INNOCENT that are in jail? and how many people that are GUILTY that aren't in prison because of a jury? Jury consistent of people and people are NEVER perfect. They make mistakes. Its that ****ing simple.

N They were openly assholes. An asshole will never win Survivor, plain and simple.
Complete and utter BS. Last time I checked these two were openly assholes to EVERYONE and everyone hated them.

Todd
http://i52.tinypic.com/343qjon.jpg

Richard
http://i51.tinypic.com/9qixbs.jpg

[SoBig]

Colby was an idiot, and brought the wrong person to the final, and deserved to lose because of it.

Rob did deserve to win, I'll give you that.

Russel would've won if he didn't act like an aggressive asshole all throughout the game.

Maybe it's just me, but I can think of someone as the best player, unless they win. There have been people who've played similar aggressive games like Russel, Brian Heidik and Chris Daugherty and still won.
No way Brian is the best player ever.

I can name at least 13 players that are much better than Chris and Brian.

Todd
Yul
Russell
Boston Robb
Fairplay
Parvati
Sash
Tom
Yau-Man
Rob Cesternino
Cirie (Probably the best manipulator ever)
Ozzy (Just based on competitions, dude literally won EVERY COMP that he played)

Why I don't like saying the best player has to be someone that has won are, most of the time the best player gets knocked out at the 3 spot ( for example Cirie, Lex, Rob, Yau-Man, Fairplay ) or the jury is just bitter and no matter what they won't vote for them. Bob barely beat Susie in Gabon. It was a 4-3 vote. Susie nearly won who did absolutely noting in the game, only because Randy changed his vote at the last minute Bob won.

EDIT: Hatch only beat Kelly, because he guessed a number between 1 and 10 that one of the jury members asked. Same with Brian over Clay. Wtf does having to guess a number have to do with winning survivor? Are you kidding me?

[swinearefine]

I hate when idiots say that the jury is always right. :rolleyes: You know how many people that are INNOCENT that are in jail? and how many people that are GUILTY that aren't in prison because of a jury? Jury consistent of people and people are NEVER perfect. They make mistakes. Its that ****ing simple.

There is a gigantic difference between the jury on a reality show and the jury in a court room, and if someone has difficulty distinguishing between them, that's worrying. In a courtroom there is an objective truth that the jury is trying to find; on survivor there is a subjective truth the jury decides on. The truth in a courtroom lies in the action itself, not in the decision of a jury; the truth in survivor lies in the opinions of the jury. On Survivor each juror decides who they want to win based entirely on their opinion, and one's opinion cannot be wrong when it's a subjective matter, wheres a jury in a courtroom can be wrong, because it's not their opinions that define the truth, but the evidence. If new evidence is found to dispute the jury's findings, then their opinions were wrong, because it is an objective matter.

[Macie Lightfoot]

I hate when idiots say that the jury is always right. :rolleyes: You know how many people that are INNOCENT that are in jail? and how many people that are GUILTY that aren't in prison because of a jury? Jury consistent of people and people are NEVER perfect. They make mistakes. Its that ****ing simple.

You can't compare a real life Jury to a Survivor Jury. The rules of the game are to get to the end and get the Jury votes. If you can't do that, something went wrong (whether it be your own fault, luck, production manipulation, etc.) Who "played the best game" isn't factual, it's all subjective. It's whoever can sell themselves the best. If you piss off the whole Jury and they hate you for it, then of course they're not going to vote for you. It's a simple concept to understand.

Complete and utter BS. Last time I checked these two were openly assholes to EVERYONE and everyone hated them.

Todd
http://i52.tinypic.com/343qjon.jpg

Richard
http://i51.tinypic.com/9qixbs.jpg

Todd wasn't openly an asshole to everyone :joker: Just because he was kind of a dick in his confessionals doesn't mean he was like that in camp. And Richard, although the wasn't particularly liked, he wasn't hated. There's a fine line between being disliked and being abrasive (and therefore hated), and Richard and Todd were able to avoid being abrasive. At the end of the day, the Jury respected them enough to vote for them, not matter how disliked they were. If you're hated, however, it's almost impossible to gain respect.

Todd wasn't openly an asshole :joker:

[swinearefine]

EDIT: Hatch only beat Kelly, because he guessed a number between 1 and 10 that one of the jury members asked. Same with Brian over Clay. Wtf does having to guess a number have to do with winning survivor? Are you kidding me?

Greg has said before that his vote was locked on Richard going into TC, and the numbers Richard and Kelly chose had absolutely nothing to do with his vote. If you're trying to say that Richard didn't deserve to win, you're deluded.

[Macie Lightfoot]

No way Brian is the best player ever.

I can name at least 13 players that are much better than Chris and Brian.

Todd
Yul
Russell
Boston Robb
Fairplay
Parvati
Sash
Tom
Yau-Man
Rob Cesternino
Cirie (Probably the best manipulator ever)
Ozzy (Just based on competitions, dude literally won EVERY COMP that he played)

Yul, Russell (all three times), Boston Rob (All-Stars), Fairplay, Parvati (Heroes vs. Villains), Sash, Yau Man, and Ozzy are in no way, shape, or form better than Chris and Brian. You're 100% delusional to think that some of them, especially ones like Russell, Sash, and Ozzy are. I suppose arguments could be made for Cirie (both times), Cesternino, and Parvati (Micronesia) as better players than Chris, but I don't really see it either. The only people I see as better than Chris from your list are Tom and Todd. But none of those people beat Brian. Boston Rob (Redemption Island) is another one I would put in between too. Ultimately, he's hard to judge because he was playing against a bunch of dumbasses.

Why I don't like saying the best player has to be someone that has won are, most of the time the best player gets knocked out at the 3 spot ( for example Cirie, Lex, Rob, Yau-Man, Fairplay ) or the jury is just bitter and no matter what they won't vote for them. Bob barely beat Susie in Gabon. It was a 4-3 vote. Susie nearly won who did absolutely noting in the game, only because Randy changed his vote at the last minute Bob won.

Ethan was definitely better than Lex, Earl was definitely better than Yau Man, and Sandra was definitely better than Fairplay. And Susie played a pretty solid game. It's funny that you act like Bob deserved to win over Susie without a doubt, but Bob is one of the worst winners (if not the worst) and Susie really was a good player. I think the biggest issue with how you watch Survivor is that you buy into what the editing wants you to see, believing that people are good players because they're so over the top and insistent that they are good players.

EDIT: Hatch only beat Kelly, because he guessed a number between 1 and 10 that one of the jury members asked. Same with Brian over Clay. Wtf does having to guess a number have to do with winning survivor? Are you kidding me?

No, Hatch went into the finale with 5 votes, Kelly went in with 2. Colleen ended up switching up her vote from Hatch to Kelly, but that was the only switch. And in Thailand, Helen, Ted, and Jake would've never voted for Clay. And Jan didn't dislike Clay, but definitely liked Brian more. Brian had those four votes going into the finale for sure, and the only reason he didn't get Penny/Ken/Erin's vote was that he didn't get to know them on a personal level and played the game like a sociopath, pretty much. His Jury performance wasn't that great, but he already had the votes he needed beforehand.

[SoBig]

Troy I can't even take you seriously. How the hell can anyone watch Russell Hantz in Survivor Samoa and think that he is a terrible player? Like seriously? You are letting your hatred for the man cloud your judgement. Even Jeff Probst the biggest Russell Hater out there has said numerous times that he is without a doubt one of the top 5 ever.

[SoBig]

LMAO @ Ethan being a better player than Lex. :laugh3::laugh3:

Earl over Yau-Man is arguable, they are around the same level.

[swinearefine]

Troy I can't even take you seriously. How the hell can anyone watch Russell Hantz in Survivor Samoa and think that he is a terrible player? Like seriously? You are letting your hatred for the man cloud your judgement. Even Jeff Probst the biggest Russell Hater out there has said numerous times that he is without a doubt one of the top 5 ever.

Russel had no chance of getting the votes to win, thus he was a horrible player. Natalie completely played him and was a very deserving winner. And ew @ your comment about Jeff Proust - he is a horrible little man who has a crush on every dominant male who plays the game and he has no idea what the true Survivor fans want. He's one of the main reasons I stopped watching after Nicaragua.

[Roy Mars III]

No way Brian is the best player ever.

I can name at least 13 players that are much better than Chris and Brian.

Todd
Yul
Russell
Boston Robb
Fairplay
Parvati
Sash
Tom
Yau-Man
Rob Cesternino
Cirie (Probably the best manipulator ever)
Ozzy (Just based on competitions, dude literally won EVERY COMP that he played)

Why I don't like saying the best player has to be someone that has won are, most of the time the best player gets knocked out at the 3 spot ( for example Cirie, Lex, Rob, Yau-Man, Fairplay ) or the jury is just bitter and no matter what they won't vote for them. Bob barely beat Susie in Gabon. It was a 4-3 vote. Susie nearly won who did absolutely noting in the game, only because Randy changed his vote at the last minute Bob won.

EDIT: Hatch only beat Kelly, because he guessed a number between 1 and 10 that one of the jury members asked. Same with Brian over Clay. Wtf does having to guess a number have to do with winning survivor? Are you kidding me?

Greg would have voted for Hatch anyway. He was just ****ing around, like he did the whole time on the island.

[Roy Mars III]

Troy I can't even take you seriously. How the hell can anyone watch Russell Hantz in Survivor Samoa and think that he is a terrible player? Like seriously? You are letting your hatred for the man cloud your judgement. Even Jeff Probst the biggest Russell Hater out there has said numerous times that he is without a doubt one of the top 5 ever.

Jeff is not the biggest Russel hater. :joker: he loves the guy, and everything he has done for the program. If Jeff hated him, Russel never would have come back.

Russel is terrible. I don't even hate him, in fact I think he is great television. He is just terrible player. You aren't great, because people let you stay in the game because they know even Hitler could beat you in the final tribal council.

[SoBig]

Russel is terrible. I don't even hate him, in fact I think he is great television. He is just terrible player. You aren't great, because people let you stay in the game because they know even Hitler could beat you in the final tribal council.
Oh please dude. Several players tried to get Russell Hantz out and they couldn't. In Samoa every effin person tried to get him out, but he kept knocking them off one by one. Same in Heroes VS Villians, Boston Rob tried to get him out TWO times and couldn't. Sandra tried multiple times before and after the merge and couldn't.

And this what you said about Russell last week.

I wouldn't call him the best(he's never won), but he's definitely one of them, especially from a strategic view point.

And now you are singing a different song about how he is terrible? Last week he was one of the best according to YOU and now you are saying that he is terrible? :laugh3:

[Roy Mars III]

Oh please dude. Several players tried to get Russell Hantz out and they couldn't. In Samoa every effin person tried to get him out, but he kept knocking them off one by one. Same in Heroes VS Villians, Boston Rob tried to get him out TWO times and couldn't. Sandra tried multiple times before and after the merge and couldn't.

And this what you said about Russell last week.


And now you are singing a different song about how he is terrible? Last week he was one of the best according to YOU and now you are saying that he is terrible? :laugh3:

:joker: i don't even remember writing that. What was I thinking?

[SoBig]

Jeff is not the biggest Russel hater. :joker: he loves the guy, and everything he has done for the program. If Jeff hated him, Russel never would have come back.
Follow Jeff on twitter. He hates him.

[SoBig]

:joker: i don't even remember writing that. What was I thinking?
You asking me? You should know, since you posted that on page 2.

[Roy Mars III]

I followed Jeff on twitter for a bit, but the arrogance of his tweets got to much.

[SoBig]

I followed Jeff on twitter for a bit, but the arrogance of his tweets got to much.
Yea, and dude is corny.

[Macie Lightfoot]

Troy I can't even take you seriously. How the hell can anyone watch Russell Hantz in Survivor Samoa and think that he is a terrible player? Like seriously? You are letting your hatred for the man cloud your judgement. Even Jeff Probst the biggest Russell Hater out there has said numerous times that he is without a doubt one of the top 5 ever.

I'm fine with that cause I've never been able to take you seriously. I'm not letting my hatred cloud my judgment, Russell has made countless mistakes along the way and will never win, no matter how many times he plays. He's the perfect person to get to the end with, like Natalie and Sandra saw. Lemme run through some of Russell's mistakes...

-Weakening his own tribe on purpose, resulting in only one Immunity Challenge win, resulting in being down in numbers in the merge
-Taking Natalie over Liz into the merge because she'll work well with the jurors (he says this himself, that he picked Natalie over Liz because she'll talk with the jurors a lot and get in with them, inherently becoming a Jury threat that he never saw coming.)
-Not even considering what Monica told him about how he needs to put people into the Jury that will vote for him (he just says "I don't think so," ignoring that you can't win the game by yourself.)

He's so stubborn that he doesn't realize any of this is his fault. He claims to have such a respect for the game, but wants to change the rules cause he didn't win. :joker: It's laughable. He'll never win.

[Macie Lightfoot]

LMAO @ Ethan being a better player than Lex. :laugh3::laugh3:

Earl over Yau-Man is arguable, they are around the same level.

Ethan played a very solid game. His social game was nearly flawless: Tom, Kim, and Lex all would've taken him to the final two, and Ethan would've beat them all. Who else can say that they were in that position at the final four? Ethan didn't have much of a strategic game, but he didn't need one. Lex took all the bullets and turned some off with his arrogance. Ethan used him a smokescreen, assuring that he was never the first target. I'm not saying Lex played a bad game, but Ethan played it better. You get all caught up in who makes the big moves, but what you need to realize is that a good social game can override the efforts of a power hungry, cutthroat, bridge-burning player. Just ask Natalie about that one.

[SoBig]

You basically look down upon players that make strategic moves and praise players that basically just float through the game and ride coattails. Its shocking that you don't have Jordan as the greatest Big Brother player. She plays the exact type of game that you are a fan of.

I have more respect for players like Evel Dick and both Danielles over players like Jordan and Adam that sit back and don't make any moves.

The reason Lex didn't win Survivor Africa was because he became ill the day of the final immunity challenge. That girl picked Ethan over Lex, because she thought that it was going to be easier to beat him. She even said so. It was not because she liked Ethan better.

Google the "Greatest Survivor players" and any list from 09 till now will have Russell in the top 5. Thats just the way it is, whether you like it or not. He is considered one of the greatest if not the greatest survivor player by most people that watch Survivor.

[SoBig]

I'm fine with that cause I've never been able to take you seriously. I'm not letting my hatred cloud my judgment, Russell has made countless mistakes along the way and will never win, no matter how many times he plays. He's the perfect person to get to the end with, like Natalie and Sandra saw. Lemme run through some of Russell's mistakes...

-Weakening his own tribe on purpose, resulting in only one Immunity Challenge win, resulting in being down in numbers in the merge
-Taking Natalie over Liz into the merge because she'll work well with the jurors (he says this himself, that he picked Natalie over Liz because she'll talk with the jurors a lot and get in with them, inherently becoming a Jury threat that he never saw coming.)
-Not even considering what Monica told him about how he needs to put people into the Jury that will vote for him (he just says "I don't think so," ignoring that you can't win the game by yourself.)

He's so stubborn that he doesn't realize any of this is his fault. He claims to have such a respect for the game, but wants to change the rules cause he didn't win. :joker: It's laughable. He'll never win.
So he made mistakes, so what? No one has ever played the perfect game and no one ever will.

Russell went as far as he did, because he took control of the tribe. Majority of the time in Survivor the player that's calling the shots, make it to the final 3 at very least. If he didn't do what he did both times, he would been gone in the first couple of weeks.


He'll never win.
People said the same thing about Boston Rob.

[Roy Mars III]

You basically look down upon players that make strategic moves and praise players that basically just float through the game and ride coattails. Its shocking that you don't have Jordan as the greatest Big Brother player. She plays the exact type of game that you are a fan of.

I have more respect for players like Evel Dick and both Danielles over players like Jordan and Adam that sit back and don't make any moves.

The reason Lex didn't win Survivor Africa was because he became ill the day of the final immunity challenge. That girl picked Ethan over Lex, because she thought that it was going to be easier to beat him. She even said so. It was not because she liked Ethan better.

Google the "Greatest Survivor players" and any list from 09 till now will have Russell in the top 5. Thats just the way it is, whether you like it or not. He is considered one of the greatest if not the greatest survivor player by most people that watch Survivor.

On Rob C.'s podcast he had people vote for the top 20 surivor players(I think about 700 voted) The list was:

1. Parvati Shallow
2. Boston Rob
3. Sandra Diaz-Twine
4. Richard Hatch
5. Rob Cesternino
6. Cirie Fields
7. Todd Herzog
8. Yul Kwon
9. Tom Westman
10. Brian Heidik
11. Russell Hantz
12. Jonny Fairplay
13. Chris Daughtery
14. J.T. Thomas
15. Stephen Fishbach
16. Yau-Man Chan
17. Amanda Kimmel
18. Earl Cole
19. Ethan Zohn
20. Ozzy Lusth

I think it's a pretty good list bar a few.

[SoBig]

No way in hell is Ethan in the top 20. Replace him with Terry Deitz or Lex. Richard Hatch is way too high. Same with Sandra. Overall the list isn't bad. Just the order that they are in is the problem.


Parvati as the best ever? No way. She was never the best player in any of her seasons. In the Cook Islands, Yul and Ozzy were clearly on another level. In Fans Vs Favorites, Cirie was by far the best player. She dominated from start to finish. If they had kept it as a final 3 instead of a final 2, Cirie would have won hands down. In Panama, Cirie would have won if she knew how to make a freaking fire. Cirie was the best player in 2 seasons. Pavati's best case for being the best player was in Heroes Vs Villians, but I still give Russell the edge because he controlled who was voted out and who was not. Parvati only made it far when she had support from other great players(FvF Amanda and Cirie, HvV Russell).

Off topic. In Heroes Vs Villains why were Stephanie, Candice and Cirie on the Heroes side? Did they forget how Stephanie played in Guatemala? She backstabbed and lied to EVERYONE that was in her alliance. She was also very arrogant.

Candice flipped over to the other tribe the first chance she got. Betrayed everyone in her alliance.

Cirie was the most cut throat person in Fans Vs Favorites. She was the mastermind behind every single plan in the women's alliance. She was just as much as a "Villain" as Pavatti was.

[Macie Lightfoot]

You basically look down upon players that make strategic moves and praise players that basically just float through the game and ride coattails. Its shocking that you don't have Jordan as the greatest Big Brother player. She plays the exact type of game that you are a fan of.

I have more respect for players like Evel Dick and both Danielles over players like Jordan and Adam that sit back and don't make any moves.

The reason Lex didn't win Survivor Africa was because he became ill the day of the final immunity challenge. That girl picked Ethan over Lex, because she thought that it was going to be easier to beat him. She even said so. It was not because she liked Ethan better.

Google the "Greatest Survivor players" and any list from 09 till now will have Russell in the top 5. Thats just the way it is, whether you like it or not. He is considered one of the greatest if not the greatest survivor player by most people that watch Survivor.

No I don't. All I said is that someone with a good social game has the ability to overpower a "strategic mastermind," it happens time and time again. Jordan didn't play that type of game because she didn't even play a game. You're pretty thick if you think what I said has anything to do with how Jordan (or Adam, since you brought him into it too) played the game. I never said strategic games aren't good, I just said that some people can overcome them.

You're wrong about that. Kim knew she wasn't going to win against Ethan or Lex, but she voted Lex off because she felt that Lex felt entitled to winning. Even if Lex won the final Immunity Challenge, he would've gone to the end with Ethan and most likely have lost. Ethan would've had Kim J, Tom, and Kelly's votes automatically, and then Lex would've only had Brandon's. Frank/Kim P/Teresa would've been more likely to vote for Ethan, but perhaps Lex could've pulled it off with an extremely impressive performance at Tribal Council, but the odds were heavily stacked against him. I'm not trying to say Lex was a bad player. He would've won easily against Kim J or Tom. However, he was 100% set on going with Ethan, which wouldn't have done him any good.

And so? Do I care what Google says? I'm sure if you Google "Greatest Big Brother players" Dick comes in the top 5, but that means nothing. Google has no credibility. Just because random lists you find online say that Russell's a great player doesn't mean that he is. Editing does wonders, people only think Russell was so great because of the constant "I'm Russell Hantz!" confessionals and the fact that Natalie (and Sandra too, to some degree) were ignored by the editors. Just because a lot of people can't see past that doesn't mean they're right.

[Macie Lightfoot]

So he made mistakes, so what? No one has ever played the perfect game and no one ever will.

Russell went as far as he did, because he took control of the tribe. Majority of the time in Survivor the player that's calling the shots, make it to the final 3 at very least. If he didn't do what he did both times, he would been gone in the first couple of weeks.

Uh if you're inherently the "best player" that means you make few, if any mistakes :joker: I'd need to take off my shoes to count all the mistakes Russell's made, and that's just in Samoa.

[BBfanUSA]

We should add survivor all stars to this list the way this is going because this is way off topic

[Macie Lightfoot]

No way in hell is Ethan in the top 20. Replace him with Terry Deitz or Lex. Richard Hatch is way too high. Same with Sandra. Overall the list isn't bad. Just the order that they are in is the problem.

:joker::joker::joker::joker::joker::joker::joker:: joker::joker: at Terry even being considered top 20, that such a joke. Lex definitely isn't top 20 either. Here's how I would rank them...

1. JT
2. Tina
3. Brian
4. Richard
5. Todd
6. Tom
7. Danni
8. Earl
9. Chris
10. Cirie
11. Sandra
12. Rob
13. Parvati
14. Natalie
15. Yul
16. Amber
17. Stephen
18. Vecepia
19. Yau Man
20. Ethan


Parvati as the best ever? No way. She was never the best player in any of her seasons. In the Cook Islands, Yul and Ozzy were clearly on another level. In Fans Vs Favorites, Cirie was by far the best player. She dominated from start to finish. If they had kept it as a final 3 instead of a final 2, Cirie would have won hands down. In Panama, Cirie would have won if she knew how to make a freaking fire. Cirie was the best player in 2 seasons. Pavati's best case for being the best player was in Heroes Vs Villians, but I still give Russell the edge because he controlled who was voted out and who was not. Parvati only made it far when she had support from other great players(FvF Amanda and Cirie, HvV Russell).

I don't know why you think Ozzy was some great player who was "clearly" on another level. But in terms of people who played better than Parvati in Cook Islands, I would say Yul, Candice, Ozzy, Becky, and Adam in that order. Micronesia, Cirie was better than Parvati. And I don't know why you think Russell was that amazing in Heroes vs. Villains either. I'd say he was the worst player of the final six, but Colby and Rupert weren't much better. Jerri, Parvati, and Sandra, though, were definitely better.

Off topic. In Heroes Vs Villains why were Stephanie, Candice and Cirie on the Heroes side? Did they forget how Stephanie played in Guatemala? She backstabbed and lied to EVERYONE that was in her alliance. She was also very arrogant.

Candice flipped over to the other tribe the first chance she got. Betrayed everyone in her alliance.

Cirie was the most cut throat person in Fans Vs Favorites. She was the mastermind behind every single plan in the women's alliance. She was just as much as a "Villain" as Pavatti was.

Because of editing. It's really not that complicated. Yes, they did forget how Stephenie played in Guatemala, because they choose to ignore that season completely. She's better remembered as the heroine in Palau. Candice's is contradictory. Even though Yul/Ozzy/Becky/Sundra got a very forced and fraudulent positive edit, Probst said that Candice's mutiny was heroic because she was returning to her allies. And then Cirie is again about editing, just like Stephenie. Parvati embraces her cutthroat "black widow" style and gets a negative edit, Cirie is bubbly and giggles a lot, she gets a positive edit.