Amanda Knox - To Face Retrial

[Lewis.]

According to the Italian press, 3:30pm ET time (20:30 GMT)..


thoughts?

[MTVN]

I didn't follow it in a lot of detail but the evidence against her didn't seem particularly convincing and they seemed to have used some questionable methods in questioning her. Although that said, it wouldn't surprise me if she were guilty, there were a few holes in her story if I remember rightly

Oh and, alleged murdering aside, she's pretty hot :cool:

[MTVN]

When's this verdict :idc:

[MTVN]

On now: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15156861

[MTVN]

Think the verdict's been overturned :o

[Kazanne]

Anyone know whats happened?

[Lewis.]

She's free!!!

YES!

[MTVN]

She's been freed, the court's overturned the murder conviction

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2044585/Amanda-Knox-verdict-Freed-appeal-court-overturns-murder-conviction.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

[Kazanne]

Mmmm,not sure about that one.

[Cromwell1900]

Wow

[Lewis.]

Was watching live on CNN - very intense indeed.

[GypsyGoth]

I'm glad she's free I never thought she done it.

[MTVN]

Here's an interesting piece, giving 5 reasons as to why she might be guilty and 5 for why she might be innocent: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8803077/Amanda-Knox-Guilty-or-innocent-five-reasons-why.html

Got to say the 5 reasons for her being guilty seem more convincing to me

[Tom4784]

I'm not surprised, the accusations seemed a bit flimsy and I heard that the Italian police screwed up a lot during the investigation. It's what happens when you just aim to close a case instead of discovering the truth, innocent people will most likely suffer.

[Cromwell1900]

Sky News

A Bra clasp of Merideth's was analized 6 weeks after the Murder and found to have Rafaele Selechito's Blood on it. Cross contamination possible. And DNA evidence found to be unreliable.

If that's the Courts finding it's hard to argue i guess.

['Conor]

is she the nurse girl?

[GypsyGoth]

is she the nurse girl?

No, she was a foreign student in italy, I'm not sure what she was studying. She was accused of murdering a british girl with her boyfriend, they were meant to have helped a crazy guy do it.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsia8pDKvE1r47oqzo1_500.jpg

Hayden Panettiere played her in a movie.

[Cromwell1900]

is she the nurse girl?

Not sure what she did but she an American, was accused of Murdering an English girl (Merideth Knox) in Italy, after accusing a local Bar owner who had a rock solid Alibi she was tried and Convicted.

[MTVN]

She was a Literature student I think

['Conor]

oh i'm thinking of that Rebecca one who was a nurse and some of her patients died? was around the time of the whole Norway shooting

[Cromwell1900]

She has been convicted of Slandering the Bar Owner and that conviction has stood. 3 Years time served now though

[MTVN]

oh i'm thinking of that Rebecca one who was a nurse and some of her patients died? was around the time of the whole Norway shooting

The saline nurse thing, yeah she's been released now though

[Tom]

Its the right decision on the basis of the evidence but I'm not convinced shes innocent. No smoke without fire and all that.

If she is guilty then I guess the 4 years in prison and having her name dragged through the mud on a worldwide scale (not usually done in murder cases) is punishment enough. If she didn't do it then she can take consolation in the alleged big money deals coming her way. No doubt she'll be on ITV's This Morning at some point, they love stories like hers.

[Cromwell1900]

I see Rudy gadae has been convicted of killing Merideth Kartcher, Amanda Knox was convicted of helping Rudy Gadea. I did not know that.

[MeMyselfAndI]

She went to jail for 4 years??

[MTVN]

She went to jail for 4 years??

Yep - arrested in 2007, got found guilty in 2009 and have just been acquitted tonight

['Conor]

Wait so she didn't do it :suspect:

[Cromwell1900]

Its the right decision on the basis of the evidence but I'm not convinced shes innocent. No smoke without fire and all that.

If she is guilty then I guess the 4 years in prison and having her name dragged through the mud on a worldwide scale (not usually done in murder cases) is punishment enough. If she didn't do it then she can take consolation in the alleged big money deals coming her way. No doubt she'll be on ITV's This Morning at some point, they love stories like hers.

Well it's not just that the conviction has been found to be unsafe, she has actually been cleared according to Sky.

[Cromwell1900]

Italian Burden of Proof

Burden of Proof: In Italy the "burden of proof" is extremely high, and this allows many criminals to go free. While this is obviously a serious matter in organised crime, it is also relevant in matters of lesser gravity. For example, the fact that a man is in possession of stolen property, whether automobiles, motor scooters or jewellery, may not be held against him to the extent that it would be in Britain, Australia, Canada or the United States, even though possession of stolen property is a criminal offence in Italy as elsewhere. The question of burden of proof also comes into play in rape trials (see below).

http://www.bestofsicily.com/mag/art315.htm

[Tom]

Well it's not just that the conviction has been found to be unsafe, she has actually been cleared according to Sky.

I know but it still doesn't mean shes innocent. They just haven't got enough evidence. A lot doesn't add up.

[Smithy]

i can see this becoming another thread for omah to spam with pointless news stories for the next 6 months

[Jordan.]

i can see this becoming another thread for omah to spam with pointless news stories for the next 6 months

When she gets an ITV2 show maybe

[bbfan1991]

So on the basis of the evidence both have been cleared after some more evidence was brought into question, they will have to rebuild their lives after spending a few years in jail.

It's Meredith Kercher's family I feel sorry for because they will never be able to forget her murder and the fact that 2 people who were innocent according to the court now was originally found guilty leaves a lot of questions about the law.

[Cromwell1900]

I know but it still doesn't mean shes innocent. They just haven't got enough evidence. A lot doesn't add up.

Yep! as always with these things i guess. If your sat on a Jury and you are faced with such a confusing array of evidence i think i'd be thankful that i could say there is a reasonable doubt in my mind and equit

[Smithy]

When she gets an ITV2 show maybe

roflmao

[Marsh.]

I can't believe that both were released on account of the evidence not being strong enough. From what I've read its quite clear that at least one of them did do it. And if they didn't would easily have information on who it would be.

It annoys me when this happens, there was sufficient evidence when they were originally sentenced. Sickened me when I heard the reporter say "they'll be given a hero's welcome back in the States". Disgusting.

[Cromwell1900]

I can't believe that both were released on account of the evidence not being strong enough. From what I've read its quite clear that at least one of them did do it. And if they didn't would easily have information on who it would be.

It annoys me when this happens, there was sufficient evidence when they were originally sentenced. Sickened me when I heard the reporter say "they'll be given a hero's welcome back in the States". Disgusting.

Well part of the idea that they are innocent is the Police investigation and bad Police practice.

A possible Murder weapon was a kitchen knife, which was taken by the Police out of the Kitchen draw, and tested for Amanda's DNA. A small piece was found on the blade. That is shockingly bad Police work, it's a Kitchen knife in her own kitchen why would there be no DNA on it

[Marsh.]

Well part of the idea that they are innocent is the Police investigation and bad Police practice.

A possible Murder weapon was a kitchen knife, which was taken by the Police out of the Kitchen draw, and tested for Amanda's DNA. A small piece was found on the blade. That is shockingly bad Police work, it's a Kitchen knife in her own kitchen why would there be no DNA on it

I didn't hear about that. I thought traces of Meredith's blood were found on the kitchen knife???

[Omah]

There's no smoke without fire ..... :suspect:

[Cromwell1900]

I didn't hear about that. I thought traces of Meredith's blood were found on the kitchen knife???

DNA can come from Blood so it could of been blood found on the knife, as apposed to say a lose flake of skin say, im not sure on that, a Sky news analysed was saying that a small sample of DNA which was so small there was not enough for a crucial second test to be done on it. If it was Blood, and you think the first test was adequate that still leaves the slim but not beyond a doubt chance that she cut herself on that Knife and left some blood on the blade weeks before, doesn't it?

[Iceman]

So on the basis of the evidence both have been cleared after some more evidence was brought into question, they will have to rebuild their lives after spending a few years in jail.

It's Meredith Kercher's family I feel sorry for because they will never be able to forget her murder and the fact that 2 people who were innocent according to the court now was originally found guilty leaves a lot of questions about the law.

Im sure the 500 grand for being falsely imprisoned will give her a good kick start. :wink: or whatever she makes from interviews, I bet Piers Morgan will have her on within the week.

[GypsyGoth]

Im sure the 500 grand for being falsely imprisoned will give her a good kick start. :wink: or whatever she makes from interviews, I bet Piers Morgan will have her on within the week.

Yep I think she's become a millionaire pretty fast, there will be loads of tv shows wanting her on as a guest in the states, she's get a book deal and another movie will probably be made now that there is a happy ending.

[Iceman]

Yep I think she's become a millionaire pretty fast, there will be loads of tv shows wanting her on as a guest in the states, she's get a book deal and another movie will probably be made now that there is a happy ending.

Happy ending for her, not the poor girl who died. :sad:

Also Im pretty sure they'll try have her extradited and tried at the supreme court.

[Omah]

She'll never be able to walk down a street alone ever again ..... she's a natural target for nutters .....

[Iceman]

She'll never be able to walk down a street alone ever again ..... she's a natural target for nutters .....

She'll make a few million and fall into obscurity onto America ina few years

[Omah]

She'll make a few million and fall into obscurity onto America ina few years

If she lives .....

[lostalex]

It's about time. I think Rudy Guede did this alone, he only pointed to Knox and Rafelle to save his own skin and also because italian prosecuters put pressure on him. He's also got a history of knife crime before. He assualted another women after he broke in and threated her with a knife before. Amanda and Rafelle had no prior connection to crime at all.

Amanda has suffered everyone's worst nightmare, her friends and family have suffered as well. Her parents lost their house in order to pay for her lawyers. If Amanda is able to make some money, and buy her parents a new house, i see nothing wrong with that, and also it's important she tells her story so that hopefully she can help other people in similar positions who face discrimination in foreign countries and don't get a fair trial.

[Sticks]

I am hoping that the Italian authorities stop her fleeing back to the US.

The prosecutors have already said they will contest this "aquittal"

There is a lot more I would want to say, but as with another case, money can buy"justice" and stifle free speech.

[psychtracker]

That's a good result (imho), i looked into this case in quite a bit of detail about a year ago, and quite frankly the guilty verdict was bizarre and unfounded. Flimsy evidence at best, a complete crime scene botch up by the italian police, and trial by media because she exhibited some unusual behaviour after her flatmates death. Regardless if she did do it (and seems unlikely), it's more speculation rather than any hard evidence, i'm glad they saw common sense and finally released her.

[lostalex]

Watching Meredith Kertcher's family holding a press conference now. They really have behaved appaulingly. They clearly want Amanda punished even though she is innocent. They should focus more on grieving their loss, instead of pointing fingers at innocent people. Meredith would be ashamed of her family's behavior throughout this whole thing.

[Sticks]

I hear that Miss Knox changed planes in London

Someone dropped the ball

She is accused of murdering a British national in many people's eyes. Why could our British police have not arrested her here in London? Even if it happens abroad, I always thought you could be tried for the murder of a British national here in the UK?

:mad:

[MTVN]

I hear that Miss Knox changed planes in London

Someone dropped the ball

She is accused of murdering a British national in many people's eyes. Why could our British police have not arrested her here in London? Even if it happens abroad, I always thought you could be tried for the murder of a British national here in the UK?

:mad:

Yeah I'm sure the Italians and the Americans would just love that

Edit - actually a lot of Italians probably would :laugh: Not the Americans though

[Tom4784]

I hear that Miss Knox changed planes in London

Someone dropped the ball

She is accused of murdering a British national in many people's eyes. Why could our British police have not arrested her here in London? Even if it happens abroad, I always thought you could be tried for the murder of a British national here in the UK?

:mad:

She was cleared and the evidence against her was weak at best, why waste money persecuting someone who has already been cleared of a crime? Just because of some irrational people who haven't been following the case has assumed her guilty regardless?

They should put their efforts into finding the real killer instead of punsihing innocent parties just so they can close the case quickly. Going after Knox now is a waste of time and resources.

[letmein]

I can't believe that both were released on account of the evidence not being strong enough. From what I've read its quite clear that at least one of them did do it. And if they didn't would easily have information on who it would be.

It annoys me when this happens, there was sufficient evidence when they were originally sentenced. Sickened me when I heard the reporter say "they'll be given a hero's welcome back in the States". Disgusting.

Then you obvious having been reading the right material. The drifter's dna was found inside the victim for god's sake, not to mention his blood on the walls, and his dna on the knife. Amanda had nothing to do with any of it.

[letmein]

If she lives .....

Amanda is seen as innocent in America. She's safe.

Guede was caught leaving the country after she was killed. The guy is as guilty as the day is long.

Britain just hates Amanda because she's American. Anyone who has studied the case knows that there is no way she did it. Many have read salacious material that was debunked years ago. She was interrogated for 54 hours straight, with no lawyer, and by police who weren't fluent in English, and they wouldn't allow her anything to drink for hours. Britain better be careful, because if they even attempt going after this girl, it's going to backfire, and America will act accordingly.

[MTVN]

Amanda is seen as innocent in America. She's safe.

Guede was caught leaving the country after she was killed. The guy is as guilty as the day is long.

Britain just hates Amanda because she's American. Anyone who has studied the case knows that there is no way she did it. Many have read salacious material that was debunked years ago. She was interrogated for 54 hours straight, with no lawyer, and by police who weren't fluent in English, and they wouldn't allow her anything to drink for hours. Britain better be careful, because if they even attempt going after this girl, it's going to backfire, and America will act accordingly.

:rolleyes: And what are you basing that on? Most people in this thread have been supportive of Knox, as has a lot of the British press

[Iceman]

I hear that Miss Knox changed planes in London

Someone dropped the ball

She is accused of murdering a British national in many people's eyes. Why could our British police have not arrested her here in London? Even if it happens abroad, I always thought you could be tried for the murder of a British national here in the UK?

:mad:

Was accused, she's a free woman and can do what she likes.

[Omah]

Amanda is seen as innocent in America. She's safe.

Nobody's safe in the USA - some prominent assassinations :

Elijah P. Lovejoy (1837), editor of an abolitionist newspaper, the "Alton Observer", by a mob of pro-slavery advocates.
James Strang (1856), Michigan State Representative and leader of the Strangite Church.
Abraham Lincoln (1865), 16th President of the United States.
James A. Garfield (1881), 20th President of the United States.
David Hennessy (1890), Police Chief of New Orleans.
Samuel Newitt Wood (1891), Kansas Legislator and Senator.
Carter Harrison (1893), Mayor of Chicago.
William Goebel (1900), governor of Kentucky.
William McKinley (1901), 25th President of the United States.
Don Mellett (1926), newspaper editor and campaigner against organized crime.
Anton Cermak (1931), Mayor of Chicago.
Huey Long (1935), U.S. Senator, Louisiana.
Walter Liggett (1935), Minnesota newspaper editor.
Carlo Tresca (1943), anarchist organizer.
Curtis Chillingworth (1955), a Florida judge.
John F. Kennedy (1963), 35th President of the United States.
Medgar Evers (1963 June 12), U.S. civil rights activist.[1]
Malcolm X (1965 February 21), black Muslim leader, killed in a Manhattan banquet room as he began a speech.
George Lincoln Rockwell (1967), founder of the American Nazi Party.
Martin Luther King, Jr. (1968 April 4), U.S. civil rights activist.[1]
Robert F. Kennedy (1968), leading presidential candidate in the 1968 presidential election
Fred Hampton (1969), Deputy Chairman of the Illinois chapter of the Black Panther Party.
Dan Mitrione (1970), FBI agent and torture expert, killed by the guerrilla movement Tupamaros.
Marcus Foster (1973), School District Superintendent in Oakland CA, killed by members of the Symbionese Liberation Army.
Don Bolles (1976), Investigative reporter for Arizona Republic, killed in car bomb, Max Dunlap and James Robison convicted, alleged Mafia ties.
Orlando Letelier (1976), Chilean ambassador to the United States under the administration of Salvador Allende.
George Moscone (1978, November 27) Mayor of San Francisco, shot and killed by Dan White in San Francisco City Hall.
Harvey Milk (1978, November 27) San Francisco city supervisor, shot and killed by Dan White in San Francisco City Hall.
John Lennon (1980 December 8), British musician, member of The Beatles, shot and killed by Mark David Chapman.
Alan Berg (1984), radio talk-show host, killed by Neo-nazis.
Henry Liu (1984), Taiwanese-American writer, allegedly killed by Kuomintang agents.
Alex Odeh (1985), Arab anti-discrimination group leader, killed when bomb exploded in his Santa Ana, California office.
Alejandro González Malavé (1986), famous undercover policeman, in Bayamón, Puerto Rico.
Meir David Kahane (1990), Member of the Israeli Knesset, Founder of the JDL and the Kach Party, Zionist
Ioan P. Culianu (1991), Romanian historian of religion, culture, and ideas, professor at the University of Chicago, assassinated there in Swift Hall, apparently for his political writings.
David Gunn (1993), abortion doctor.
John Britton (1994), abortion doctor.
Selena Quintanilla (1995), tex-mex singer assassinated by Yolanda Saldivar, her fan club's president.
Barnett Slepian (1998), abortion doctor.
Thomas C. Wales (2001), federal prosecutor and gun control advocate.
Chauncey Bailey (2007), Oakland Tribune journalist.
Bill Gwatney (2008), Chairman of The Arkansas Democratic Party
George Tiller (2009), late-term abortion doctor, shot as he ushered at his church.
John M. Roll (2011), federal judge in Arizona

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinated_people

..... and, of course, on 9 Jan 2011, congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was shot in the head and six people were killed .....

[arista]

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2011/Oct/Week1/16082791.jpg

Ch5 Matt Wright is front page today
he says this morning it was bad graphics
on his show. He did not mean sleep with her, he claims.

[fruit_cake]

Matt has gone a bit far there but generally I think he's quite good as a chat show host

[Tom4784]

Nobody's safe in the USA - some prominent assassinations :



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinated_people

..... and, of course, on 9 Jan 2011, congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was shot in the head and six people were killed .....

You're being overdramatic. Knox is going to pretty much get a hero's welcome in America, from what I remember the media was pretty much championing her all the way. She'll fade from the spotlight in a few weeks time and that'll be the last we hear from her.

[Niamh.]

Here's an interesting piece, giving 5 reasons as to why she might be guilty and 5 for why she might be innocent: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8803077/Amanda-Knox-Guilty-or-innocent-five-reasons-why.html

Got to say the 5 reasons for her being guilty seem more convincing to me

Don't know much about the case, but reading that, I would lean much more towards her being guilty. Especially for reason No.1 an innocent person doesn't make up a story and accuse someone else, they just tell the truth.

[Ammi]

I feel so sad for Meredith's family.....to have to face what happened to her......and that the person/people responsible will probably never be caught and punished.

[Cromwell1900]

In respect of the Media coverage, here we have 2 people

Knox & Sollecito

both convicted of the same crime, receiving the same sentence Knox 26yrs Sollecito 25yrs, freed by the same court on the same day, yet all the media coverage in the UK has been on Knox.

I just find that a bit wrong!:nono:

[Omah]

You're being overdramatic. Knox is going to pretty much get a hero's welcome in America, from what I remember the media was pretty much championing her all the way. She'll fade from the spotlight in a few weeks time and that'll be the last we hear from her.

Some US citizens just don't like "heroes" and select them as "targets" ..... :eek:

[Iceman]

Some US citizens just don't like "heroes" and select them as "targets" ..... :eek:

Yeah but she's gonna have so much money, she'll fade into the background after she sets herself up for life.

[MTVN]

In respect of the Media coverage, here we have 2 people

Knox & Sollecito

both convicted of the same crime, receiving the same sentence Knox 26yrs Sollecito 25yrs, freed by the same court on the same day, yet all the media coverage in the UK has been on Knox.

I just find that a bit wrong!:nono:

I'm sure Sollecito isn't complaining! Or did you mean it's unfair on Knox?

[Cromwell1900]

On a few levels really.

A. Isn't the Media suppose to be imparcial, so as to best deliver the truth.
I mean Knox is a good looking chick is British Media doing a "C5 Big Brother Edit" and concentrating on delivering an "interesting" story rather than delivering us facts

B. If the Italian Media was as bad how could the 2, actually yes Knox..... possibly get a fair trial in the first place given italian Juries are not required to be isolated from the Media and are allowed to watch anything they like.

[Omah]

Yeah but she's gonna have so much money, she'll fade into the background after she sets herself up for life.

People with "so much money" never "fade into the background" - they just want more money and more fame - after the media rights have been settled, Knox plans to set up an Amnesty International-style organisation fighting for wrongly convicted prisoners - that's hardly going 'low-profile' ..... no doubt she'll be 'hob-nobbing' with the likes of Annie Lennox, Elton John, Bono, Brad Pitt, Bill Clinton, Angelina Jolie, George Clooney and Scarlett Johansson ..... ;)

[Tom4784]

You should be a journalist Omah, you've got a flair for dramatics :laugh:

[Omah]

You should be a journalist Omah, you've got a flair for dramatics :laugh:

Mark my words ..... :evilgrin:

[Marsh.]

It's about time. I think Rudy Guede did this alone, he only pointed to Knox and Rafelle to save his own skin and also because italian prosecuters put pressure on him. He's also got a history of knife crime before. He assualted another women after he broke in and threated her with a knife before. Amanda and Rafelle had no prior connection to crime at all.

Amanda has suffered everyone's worst nightmare, her friends and family have suffered as well. Her parents lost their house in order to pay for her lawyers. If Amanda is able to make some money, and buy her parents a new house, i see nothing wrong with that, and also it's important she tells her story so that hopefully she can help other people in similar positions who face discrimination in foreign countries and don't get a fair trial.


What about the barman who Amanda Knox unfairly accused of being involved? He went through hell and had his life turned upside down because of that woman. Turned out he was just a random bloke she dragged in to save her own skin.

Whether she's innocent or not she's proven herself throughout the trial to be one hell of a compulsive liar. Something does not add up with her.

who face discrimination in foreign countries

To an extent I agree with this. With all these kinds of cases I always get the feeling (in this case the Italians) the country involved just think sod it, and don't give it their full attention because the people involved aren't natives.

[Omah]

Whether she's innocent or not she's proven herself throughout the trial to be one hell of a compulsive liar. Something does not add up with her.

My feeling entirely ..... she is definitely :suspect:

[Marsh.]

Matt has gone a bit far there but generally I think he's quite good as a chat show host

On the few occasions I've watched the show, Matthew Wright irritates me beyond belief. At first it was his sense of humour and how he went on and on and on about a joke if he thought it was funny. But then I saw his petty and arrogant streak when he'd cut callers off the phone if he didn't agree with their opinion.

[lostalex]

I hear that Miss Knox changed planes in London

Someone dropped the ball

She is accused of murdering a British national in many people's eyes. Why could our British police have not arrested her here in London? Even if it happens abroad, I always thought you could be tried for the murder of a British national here in the UK?

:mad:

If Amanda was tried in the UK instead of Italy, with all the same evidence in the Italian trial, she never would have been convicted in the first place in the UK. All UK legal experts have said that.

[lostalex]

What about the barman who Amanda Knox unfairly accused of being involved? He went through hell and had his life turned upside down because of that woman. Turned out he was just a random bloke she dragged in to save her own skin.

Whether she's innocent or not she's proven herself throughout the trial to be one hell of a compulsive liar. Something does not add up with her.



To an extent I agree with this. With all these kinds of cases I always get the feeling (in this case the Italians) the country involved just think sod it, and don't give it their full attention because the people involved aren't natives.

The man she "falsely accussed" although really the police falsely accussed him, and got Amanda to sign a document in Italian (she didn't speak or read italian fluently at the time" that accussed him. He spent i believe 2 weeks in jail? Amanda spent 4 years in jail falsely accussed. How can you compare a man being falsely imprisoned for 2 weeks to someone who's been falsley imprisoned for 4 years? I don't think you can.

[lostalex]

I feel so sad for Meredith's family.....to have to face what happened to her......and that the person/people responsible will probably never be caught and punished.

The person responsible has already been caught and punished. His name is Rudy Guede and his DNA was all over the crime scene and IN the victims body. He is currently serving 16 years in Italian Prison for it.

[lostalex]

My feeling entirely ..... she is definitely :suspect:

She's not a compulsive liar. Don't you wonder why the Italian police didn't record their interogation of Amanda knox??? It's standard practice in all civilized countries so it can be used it court, but mysteriously, the Italians don't record and play the interrogation of Amanda knox??

It's because she was interrogated in a way that was even worse than what you'd see in Guantanamo Bay, that's why they don't record it and play it.

[Omah]

She's not a compulsive liar.

Time will tell ..... :hmph:

[Sticks]

Even the Kercher family are 100% behind the Italian prosecutors in their efforts to overturn this travesty of justice. We all need to get our MP's to get the UK government to make representations to the US government so that Amanda Knox is extradited back to Italy to serve her sentence when this acquittal is over turned as it surely will be.

The entire appeal was a sham

We had a judge speaking out of turn, and the so called independent experts getting too chummy with the defence.

:mad:

[Iceman]

Even the Kercher family are 100% behind the Italian prosecutors in their efforts to overturn this travesty of justice. We all need to get our MP's to get the UK government to make representations to the US government so that Amanda Knox is extradited back to Italy to serve her sentence when this acquittal is over turned as it surely will be.

The entire appeal was a sham

We had a judge speaking out of turn, and the so called independent experts getting too chummy with the defence.

:mad:

She wont get extradited. IIRC they said on Sky News that although there is a treaty in place for extradition from US to Italy, nobody could find any records of anyone who had been extradited.

[Jords]

Talking about this in school today, dont know much on the story :S

[Tom4784]

Even the Kercher family are 100% behind the Italian prosecutors in their efforts to overturn this travesty of justice. We all need to get our MP's to get the UK government to make representations to the US government so that Amanda Knox is extradited back to Italy to serve her sentence when this acquittal is over turned as it surely will be.

The entire appeal was a sham

We had a judge speaking out of turn, and the so called independent experts getting too chummy with the defence.

:mad:

It got overturned because the proof against her was pathetic, is getting a result more important then getting the right one?

[Marsh.]

The man she "falsely accussed" although really the police falsely accussed him, and got Amanda to sign a document in Italian (she didn't speak or read italian fluently at the time" that accussed him. He spent i believe 2 weeks in jail? Amanda spent 4 years in jail falsely accussed. How can you compare a man being falsely imprisoned for 2 weeks to someone who's been falsley imprisoned for 4 years? I don't think you can.


She ruined his reputation. And even had his own wife doubting him.
Amanda Knox has been released purely on the incompetence of the Italian police force. Doesn't mean she's innocent at all, just means they buggered up all the evidence. The first 24 hours are crucial and they allowed the crime scene to be contaminated.

And yes, she is a compulsive liar. Not just through the trial but when the whole story of her time with her boyfriend and Meredith. Not to mention all the sex addiction stuff, guilty or not guilty of murder that woman is a walking psycho.

[Sticks]

She wont get extradited. IIRC they said on Sky News that although there is a treaty in place for extradition from US to Italy, nobody could find any records of anyone who had been extradited.

There is always a first time :nono:

This is why we need to get our government to make representations to make sure she does not escape justice, and to get the US government to honour its commitment by agreeing to extradite Miss Knox.

That appeal was flawed right at the beginning when that judge spoke out of turn. Ergo the so called aquittal will rightly be overturned when they get to the next higher court.

If that happens, as according to the prosecutor it should, there will have to be an international arrest warrant on Amanda Knox to drag her back to finish her sentence, which hopefully will be bumped up to life!!

Justice for Meredtith :mad:

[Sticks]

It got overturned because the proof against her was pathetic, is getting a result more important then getting the right one?

So the evidence was not collected like they show on CSI?

Is this not the CSI effect where juries who have watched that TV show have unrealistic expectations about forensic evidence?

[lostalex]

The murder scene was COVERED in Rudy Guede's DNA.

Please tell me how Amanda and Rafeale were involved in the murder, but it was ONLY Rudy Guede's DNA that was all over the murder scene, and INSIDE the victims body, but they couldn't find any DNA from Amanda or Rafaele???

Please explain to me how Amanda could clean up just her own DNA and Rafaele's DNA but leave only Rudy's DNA....

OOHHHh that's right, you think she's a satanic witch with magical powers. *rolls eyes*

[Tom4784]

So the evidence was not collected like they show on CSI?

Is this not the CSI effect where juries who have watched that TV show have unrealistic expectations about forensic evidence?

The evidence wasn't strong enough for a conviction as it's obvious they just wanted a result. Convictions don't get turned for no reason at the end of the day. It's strange that you're determined to continue down this path with Knox but you haven't mentioned the more likely suspect who is still serving time, you know the one who was convicted of attacking women in the past? The one who's DNA was closely linked to the crime?

The law and the evidence is on Knox's side and a lot of experts that know more about the field then me and you ever will have said that the same result would have been achieved in other countries. In the law's eyes she's innocent yet you keep going on saying that she should be retrialed on nothing more but emotional sensationalism. What's the point of even having a verdict if people are going to be seen as guilty anyway?

[Sticks]

She IS going to be retried

The prosecutors are appealing against this acquittal with the 100% backing of the Kercher family

Her actions after the murder were seen as deeply suspicious and lets not forget she has been convicted of slander. As the chief prosecutor says, why would she commit slander, if it were not a deliberate misdirection?

Smoke - Fire?

As for the man convicted, the courts system has ruled he DID NOT act alone. The lack of defensive wounds indicate there were three people at least in this murder, and the more severe sentence handed to Miss Knox at the original trial, indicated she was the lead assailant.

[lostalex]

She IS going to be retried

The prosecutors are appealing against this acquittal with the 100% backing of the Kercher family

Her actions after the murder were seen as deeply suspicious and lets not forget she has been convicted of slander. As the chief prosecutor says, why would she commit slander, if it were not a deliberate misdirection?

Smoke - Fire?

As for the man convicted, the courts system has ruled he DID NOT act alone. The lack of defensive wounds indicate there were three people at least in this murder, and the more severe sentence handed to Miss Knox at the original trial, indicated she was the lead assailant.

If anyone tries to remove Amanda from this country, I will personally protect her. She has suffered enuf of this crap, no more will be allowed.

I recommend you let it alone.

The Kerchers need to start GRIEVING properly and stop POINTING FINGERS. Their behavior is a disgrace to Meredith.

[Sticks]

If anyone tries to remove Amanda from this country, I will personally protect her.

And thereby hangs the perception about the way extradition treaties between the US and other countries operate or as some believe don't

The US hardly ever hands anyone over in extradition requests, but when it is the other way around, even when the alleged offence or offenders were never in the US, the US demands and belligerently gets it way.

Just why is that - Maybe another thread can be set up, to avoid further thread hijacks.

If the prosecution authorities in Italy are still pursuing this, they must have a good reason?

Compare that with here in the UK where in the past there have been successful appeals, part of the reason they succeed has been that the CPS recognises an error has been made and offers no evidence.

If the US is ever going to be seen in a more favourable light over seas, it must be prepared to play fair and respond to extradition requests, just like it demands we hand over anyone it seeks.

[Z]

I just feel sorry for Amanda Knox. I think it's ridiculous that, regardless of whether she was involved in the murder or not, she's been turned into the scape goat and face of this whole trial - there are, after all, allegedly three of them involved in the murder, I couldn't even tell you what the two men look like because whenever I've seen headlines about the whole fiasco, it's solely been Amanda Knox's face on the covers. I believe she's innocent, and I think while the Kercher family have every right to want someone to blame, they're being pushed towards blaming Amanda Knox (or at least the media portrays it that way) with no apparent regard for the other two accused? I dunno, it just seems mad to me, that three people were jailed for her murder, yet only one of them has been receiving the fury of the media. Sexism?

[Sticks]

From the Sun Online (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3855523/Pizza-party-for-Knoxbut-the-fight-goes-on-for-Meredith-family.html)

But it was a very different homecoming for the anguished family of Meredith, 21. Her loved ones are in despair following the acquittal of Knox and her former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, 27, in the Italian city of Perugia.

They spoke for the first time yesterday of their backing for Italian prosecutors who plan to appeal against the decision.

And they refused to rule out a private prosecution in their quest for justice for Meredith who had her throat cut in the horrific killing four years ago.

Sister Stephanie, 28, speaking after arriving back at the family semi in Coulsdon, Surrey, said: "The prosecution will be appealing and we will be behind that, as well as maybe taking another route."

Meredith's frail-looking mother Arline, 65, said: "We are talking to our lawyers... " But then Stephanie interrupted: "We want to find out, if they are not guilty who is."

Arline was asked if she thought Knox was innocent and added: "I don't really know at the moment — I just had the verdict and no explanation. It has been a difficult few years let alone difficult few days."

Quizzed about whether they would launch a private legal battle, Stephanie added: "It's too early to say at the moment."

Drifter Rudy Guede, 24, from the Ivory Coast, is in jail for the murder of Meredith after his DNA was found all over her Perugia flat.

The Kercher family's concern about the success of the Knox and Sollecito appeal centres on evidence used to convict him which suggested he acted with two others.

Stephanie said: "If it was not those two, they did say that Rudy Guede was convicted on the basis there were two other people there. So if it genuinely isn't them, obviously we don't want to see the wrong people put away, but we need to get evidence of who it was or look at evidence more closely.

"So it's just trying to find the truth — we want to get some rest."

Furious Italian prosecutors, who say they will take their appeal all the way to Italy's Supreme Court, were more strident in their criticism of Knox yesterday.

Giuliano Mignini said: "Since the verdict of the court a killer is now free to walk the streets. The judges came into this appeal with their ideas already formed... it was already decided and it was wrong."

Mignini's colleague Manuela Comodi said: "I have a message for Knox: Have a nice trip. Justice has not been done, it was a victory of the rich over the poor, America over Italy, private over the public."

Judge Claudio Pratillo Hellmann added to the controversy last night, saying that despite the verdict Knox and Sollecito might well know who else was responsible — and it could even be them.

In his first public comments since the acquittal on Monday, he said the verdict "resulted from the truth that was created in the trial". But he went on: "The real truth could be different." Hellmann added: "They could also be responsible but the proof isn't there.

"So, maybe they know, too, but as far as we go, they didn't."

Experts say any attempt to extradite Knox back from the US to face further legal action, even if compelling new evidence is found, will be an uphill struggle.

[Omah]

Judge Claudio Pratillo Hellmann added to the controversy last night, saying that despite the verdict Knox and Sollecito might well know who else was responsible — and it could even be them.

In his first public comments since the acquittal on Monday, he said the verdict "resulted from the truth that was created in the trial". But he went on: "The real truth could be different." Hellmann added: "They could also be responsible but the proof isn't there.

"So, maybe they know, too, but as far as we go, they didn't.*"

"*Così, forse sanno, anche, ma per quanto ne andare, non hanno."

I guess that's the Italian equivalent of the Gallic shrug ..... :shrug:

[Tom4784]

She IS going to be retried

The prosecutors are appealing against this acquittal with the 100% backing of the Kercher family

Her actions after the murder were seen as deeply suspicious and lets not forget she has been convicted of slander. As the chief prosecutor says, why would she commit slander, if it were not a deliberate misdirection?

Smoke - Fire?

As for the man convicted, the courts system has ruled he DID NOT act alone. The lack of defensive wounds indicate there were three people at least in this murder, and the more severe sentence handed to Miss Knox at the original trial, indicated she was the lead assailant.

At the end of the day there's no DNA evidence against Knox and the boyfriend while there is for the third man, you can't remove some DNA while leaving another person's and the nature of the crime would have left a lot of their DNA at the scene if they were involved. There's very little solid evidence to link her to the crime, just people determined to do so and thankfully that doesn't hold up in court. Evidence is what matters here and there's only evidence pointing to the third man. No point in damning a person because you THINK they might have done something wrong when you have no evidence to back it up.

She might be a liar but that doesn't instantly mean she's a killer.

[Cromwell1900]

I just feel sorry for Amanda Knox. I think it's ridiculous that, regardless of whether she was involved in the murder or not, she's been turned into the scape goat and face of this whole trial - there are, after all, allegedly three of them involved in the murder, I couldn't even tell you what the two men look like because whenever I've seen headlines about the whole fiasco, it's solely been Amanda Knox's face on the covers. I believe she's innocent, and I think while the Kercher family have every right to want someone to blame, they're being pushed towards blaming Amanda Knox (or at least the media portrays it that way) with no apparent regard for the other two accused? I dunno, it just seems mad to me, that three people were jailed for her murder, yet only one of them has been receiving the fury of the media. Sexism?


Shocked me when i really looked into the details of this and realized there was no criminal reason for the media to focus on Amanda more than the other 2. Sexism or just a better story for the Press. Women aren't suppose to be murderers are they that's what Men do Stereotypically. When the Press gets the chance to turn the tables they jump at the chance. I suppose that is Sexist actually.

[Sticks]

If the evidence against her is allegedly so weak and non-existent, then why are the prosecuting authorities still pursuing this?

They must know something if they are confident that this acquittal will be overturned.

If that happens, we expect the US to honour the extradition treaty it signed and return Miss Knox to serve her sentence.

[Tom4784]

Because they're trying to save face by pinning it on her since the whole ordeal has made the Italian law system look crap. If they can get her convicted then it makes it look as though they were right all along. Let's put it this way, if the evidence against her was compelling then how did she get the verdict overturned? If the prosecution had some decent evidence then why didn't they use it when they had the chance?

It's because the evidence wasn't there, there's no compelling evidence to link her to the crime otherwise she wouldn't be free now.

[Sticks]

This article in the People (http://www.people.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2011/10/09/mother-of-key-witness-at-meredith-kercher-trial-speaks-of-her-daughter-s-torment-after-amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-aquittal-102039-23476085/)

Indicates there was more than the DNA evidence presented.

And she said Robyn, 27, can’t come to terms with the way Amanda Knox and boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito joked about the tragedy as they waited to be quizzed by cops in Perugia only a few hours after the murder.

Robyn told the jury at Knox and Sollecito’s murder trial: “When I arrived at the police station I found Amanda’s behaviour very strange.

“She had no emotion while everyone else was upset.

“I remember one thing that really upset me – a friend of Meredith said, ‘I hope she wasn’t in too much pain’.

“Amanda said, ‘What do you think? She *******ing bled to death.

“At that point no one had told us how Meredith had died.”

She added: “Everyone was crying – but Amanda wasn’t.

“She and Raffaele were kissing and joking together.

“They were cuddling and at one point she stuck her tongue out at him.”

Robyn also told the court how she felt uncomfortable about Knox after seeing a vibrator and condoms in her vanity-case at the flat she shared with Meredith and two Italian women.

Read again what the witness Robyn Butterworth says, “At that point no one had told us how Meredith had died.”

How did Amanda Knox know how Meredith died? How did she have that information when it had not been released?

Surely this is information that only the murderer of Meredith Kercher would have. Is it therefore suspicious that Amanda was in possession of this information?

Also why was Miss Butterworth not called at the Appeal? Something is not adding up there?

[lostalex]

This article in the People (http://www.people.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2011/10/09/mother-of-key-witness-at-meredith-kercher-trial-speaks-of-her-daughter-s-torment-after-amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-aquittal-102039-23476085/)

Indicates there was more than the DNA evidence presented.



Read again what the witness Robyn Butterworth says, “At that point no one had told us how Meredith had died.”

How did Amanda Knox know how Meredith died? How did she have that information when it had not been released?

Surely this is information that only the murderer of Meredith Kercher would have. Is it therefore suspicious that Amanda was in possession of this information?

Also why was Miss Butterworth not called at the Appeal? Something is not adding up there?

Misses Robyn Butterworth? This sounds like a made up name, and it certainly doesn't even sound like an Italian name. lol

You ask why wasn't she called to the appeal, well that's a good question, why didn't the prosecuters call "mrs. butterworth" to the appeal is she is such an important witness? Obviously because the prosecuters don't even believe she was a good witness.

As far as Amanda and Rafaele kissing and comforting each other, yes, how dare they comfort each other in such a horrible situation. Obviously that makes them murderers. gimme a break.

[Livia]

The Italian prosecution is appealing and if they are successful, I hope the USA step up to the mark and allow this woman to be returned to Italy. If they do not, I hope every country in the world in future refuse to cooperate with the USA when it comes to extradition. It is not one rule for the USA and one rule for the rest of the world.

[Omah]

Misses Robyn Butterworth? This sounds like a made up name, and it certainly doesn't even sound like an Italian name. lol

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2864713.ece

November 13, 2007

Sophie Purton and Robyn* Butterworth**, two friends of Ms Kercher, have told police that all three had had an early supper of pizza, ice cream and coffee at Robyn's flat "at about 6pm", drinking only water and no alcohol (forensic tests on Merediths body have confirmed this).

They then watched a film on DVD, "The Notebook", until "about 9pm". Ms Purton has testified that she then walked home with Ms Kercher, but their ways parted and she went to her own home, leaving Ms Kercher to walk the 500 yards to the cottage in Viale Sant' Antonio. This would put Ms Kercher's return to the cottage at about 9.15pm.

Pathologists at first put the time of her death at between midnight and 2am. They later revised this because of analysis of the food in her stomach, which was only partly digested, suggesting that she was killed sooner after eating her meal.

Investigators are reportedly to re-question Ms Purton and Ms Butterworth to double check the time they had supper. The provisional time of death, meanwhile, is between 9pm and 11pm, although the fatal blow could have been struck earlier since Ms Kercher bled to death slowly.

http://www.people.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2011/10/09/mother-of-key-witness-at-meredith-kercher-trial-speaks-of-her-daughter-s-torment-after-amanda-knox-and-raffaele-sollecito-aquittal-102039-23476085/

Oct 9 2011

GRIEVING Robyn Butterworth, who was on a university exchange from Leeds, England, to the Italian town of Perugia, is still haunted by the sex-murder of best pal Meredith Kercher – and the callous reaction of the girl cleared of the killing.

Robyn told her mum Sue she will never get over how Meredith had her throat cut at a student flat in Italy in 2007.

Sue, 61, said: “She won’t rest till justice is done for Meredith – she is always at the forefront of Robyn’s mind.

“My daughter believes the years that have passed mean nothing because it is back to square one now.”

Robyn’s damning testimony played a key role in getting American Knox, 21, and her 27-year-old Italian boyfriend convicted of the killing of the British student, which made headlines around the world.

But speaking at her Northampton, England, home days after the couple were acquitted last Monday, retired French teacher Sue, 61, said: “When Robyn was told they’d won their appeal she was in tears – she couldn’t believe it.

“Now she can’t bring herself to watch the news whenever the story comes on and just covers her ears."

http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/0/Robyn

*Robyn \r(o)-byn, rob-yn\ as a girl's name (also used as boy's name Robyn), is a variant of Roberta (Old English, Old German) and Robin (English), and the meaning of Robyn is "bright fame".

http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Butterworth#ixzz1aVZyAVmm

**Butterworth is a name of Anglo-Saxon origin, and is locational from a place thus called near Rochdale in Lancashire. Recorded as "Buterwrth" in the 1235 Fine Court Rolls of that county, and as "Butterwurth" in the 1246 Assize Court Rolls; the place was so called from the Olde English pre 7th Century "butere", butter, from the Latin "butyrum", plus the Olde English "worth", a homestead, or enclosure round a homestead; hence, "homestead where butter was made". Presumably, the butter produced in this place was distinguished by excellence of blend or quality. The surname was first recorded in the mid 12th Century (see below), while, in 1559, one John Butterworth, of Butterworth, was noted in the Wills Records at Chester, and in 1587, Alice Butterworth of Rochdale, was noted in the same records. James Butterworth (1771 - 1837), wrote poems in the Lancashire dialect. His youngest son Edwin (1812 - 1848), collected materials for the history of Lancashire. Some of his collections are preserved at Oldham. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of Reginald de Boterworth, which was dated circa 1160, in Baines "History of Lancashire", during the reign of King Henry 11, known as "The Builder of Churches", 1154 - 1189. Surnames became necessary when governments introduced personal taxation. In England this was known as Poll Tax.

[Sticks]

The Italian prosecution is appealing and if they are successful, I hope the USA step up to the mark and allow this woman to be returned to Italy. If they do not, I hope every country in the world in future refuse to cooperate with the USA when it comes to extradition. It is not one rule for the USA and one rule for the rest of the world.

Exactly

We need to make sure our elected officials press the US to honour their commitments and extradite Amanda Knox when this sham of an appeal is overturned, as it surely will be.

[lostalex]

The Italian prosecution is appealing and if they are successful, I hope the USA step up to the mark and allow this woman to be returned to Italy. If they do not, I hope every country in the world in future refuse to cooperate with the USA when it comes to extradition. It is not one rule for the USA and one rule for the rest of the world.

If by rule, you mean America should allow the currupt misogynist italian justice system to use an American citizen as a sacrificial lamb to save face... then shame on you.

Amanda is home for good, and any xenophobic racist foreign government that tries to punish her to use an American citizen to appease the baying masses of idiots calling for blood to save face can go FOOK themselves.

[Sticks]

But when they do seek her extradition, any other country she visits will hand her over to the Italians, if they have any shred of respect for international law.

[lostalex]

But when they do seek her extradition, any other country she visits will hand her over to the Italians, if they have any shred of respect for international law.

Yea, and isn't it funny how Roman Polanski, who admitted and has never denied drugging and raping a 13 y/o American child is still free all over Europe and no one will extradite him, but anyone could expect America to extradite Amanda knox who is guilty of no crime?

Get your house in order Europe, seriously. You wonder why European justice is a joke in America...??? really?

[MTVN]

Yea, and isn't it funny how Roamn Polanski, who admitted and has never denied drugging and rapping a 13 y/o girl is still free all over Europe, but anyone could expect America to extradite Amanda knox who is guilty of no crime?

Get your house in order Europe, seriously. You wonder why European justice is a joke in America...??? really?

Ha and this is the country that executes innocent men

[lostalex]

Ha and this is the country that executes innocent men

hmm, let;s look at history, who has executed more innocent people, America or Europe?.... ever heard the SPanish Inquisition?? try reading a book sometime.

[Omah]

hmm, let;s look at history, who has executed more innocent people, America or Europe?.... ever heard the SPanish Inquisition?? try reading a book sometime.

Who murdered the Native Americans and shot all the American Bison ?

:rolleyes:

[lostalex]

Who murdered the Native Americans and shot all the American Bison ?

:rolleyes:

The American Idnians were killed mostly by european diseases by the spanish, british, dutch and french, that's not murder.

And killing animals, are you joking? now you are equating animals to humans seriously??? I'm pretty sure native americans killed lots of bison, so what's your point???

[Marsh.]

Let's not turn this into an us versus them. Back to the subject at hand...

lostalex, your passionate "defence" of Amanda Knox is laughable. Thanks for the afternoon chuckle.

You are entitled to your opinion (of course) and have made some valid points but to discuss the case as though she's 100% "guilty of no crime" is an absolute joke.

[Omah]

The United States has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world. At year-end 2009 it was 743 adults incarcerated per 100,000 population.

According to the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) 2,292,133 adults were incarcerated in U.S. federal and state prisons, and county jails at year-end 2009 — about 1% of adults in the U.S. resident population. Additionally, 4,933,667 adults at year-end 2009 were on probation or on parole. In total, 7,225,800 adults were under correctional supervision (probation, parole, jail, or prison) in 2009 — about 3.1% of adults in the U.S. resident population."

On January 1, 2008 more than 1 in 100 adults in the United States was in prison or jail.

In 2008 approximately one in every 31 adults (7.3 million) in the United States was behind bars, or being monitored (probation and parole). In 2008 the breakdown for adults under correctional control was as follows: one out of 18 men, one in 89 women, one in 11 African-Americans (9.2 percent), one in 27 Latinos (3.7 percent), and one in 45 whites (2.2 percent). 70% of prisoners in the United States are non-whites.

In addition, there were 86,927 held in juvenile facilities as of the 2007 Census of Juveniles in Residential Placement (CJRP), conducted by the Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention.

[Marsh.]

:rolleyes: :laugh2:

Can you not drop it?

[Omah]

The American Idnians were killed mostly by european diseases by the spanish, british, dutch and french, that's not murder.

And killing animals, are you joking? now you are equating animals to humans seriously??? I'm pretty sure native americans killed lots of bison, so what's your point???

My point is that you seem to know very little about the history and nature of the xenophobic, racist, misogynist and genocidal United States ..... ;)

The Trail of Tears is a name given to the relocation and movement of Native American nations from southeastern parts of the United States following the Indian Removal Act of 1830. The removal included many members of the Cherokee, Muscogee (Creek), Seminole, and Choctaw nations, among others in the United States, from their homelands to Indian Territory (eastern sections of the present-day state of Oklahoma). The phrase originated from a description of the removal of the Choctaw Nation in 1831. The Native Americans suffered from exposure, disease and starvation en route to their destinations. Many died, including 4,000 of the 15,000 relocated Cherokee.

19th century bison hunts

Bison were hunted almost to extinction in the late 19th century primarily by white hunters and were reduced to a few hundred by the mid-1880s. They were hunted for their skins, with the rest of the animal left behind to decay on the ground.

The US Army sanctioned and actively endorsed the wholesale slaughter of bison herds. The US federal government promoted bison hunting for various reasons, to allow ranchers to range their cattle without competition from other bovines, and primarily to weaken the North American Indian population by removing their main food source and to pressure them onto the reservations. Without the bison, native people of the plains were forced either to leave the land or starve to death.

As if that wasn't enough :

The American Civil War was one of the earliest true industrial wars. Railroads, the telegraph, steamships, and mass-produced weapons were employed extensively. The practices of total war, developed by Sherman in Georgia, and of trench warfare around Petersburg foreshadowed World War I in Europe. It remains the deadliest war in American history, resulting in the deaths of 620,000 soldiers and an undetermined number of civilian casualties. Historian John Huddleston estimates the death toll at ten percent of all Northern males 20–45 years old, and 30 percent of all Southern white males aged 18–40.

Japanese-American internment was the relocation and internment by the United States government in 1942 of approximately 110,000 Japanese Americans and Japanese who lived along the Pacific coast of the United States to camps called "War Relocation Camps," in the wake of Imperial Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor.The internment of Japanese Americans was applied unequally throughout the United States. Japanese Americans who lived on the West Coast of the United States were all interned, while in Hawaii, where more than 150,000 Japanese Americans composed over one-third of the territory's population, 1,200 to 1,800 Japanese Americans were interned. Of those interned, 62% were American citizens.

Probably only the Russian czars treated their "subjects" worse .....

[MTVN]

hmm, let;s look at history, who has executed more innocent people, America or Europe?.... ever heard the SPanish Inquisition?? try reading a book sometime.

Lmao I'm not talking about history, I'm happy to admit that it's been European countries that have been responsible for some of the worst atrocities of all time, and I do read plenty of books thanks. But you wanted to compare justice systems, and Western European countries have not been in the practice of executing people for quite some time, and certainly not innocent people

[Omah]

hmm, let;s look at history, who has executed more innocent people, America or Europe?.... ever heard the SPanish Inquisition?? try reading a book sometime.

García Cárcel estimates that the total number processed by the Spanish Inquisition throughout its history was approximately 150,000; applying the percentages of executions that appeared in the trials of 1560–1700 — about 2% — the approximate total would be about 3,000 put to death.

So, not a lot really, and hardly any at all compared to the ravages of war and disease of the time .....

Of course, lots more were tortured, but that was considered "normal" :

Although the Inquisition was technically forbidden from permanently harming or drawing blood, this still allowed for methods of torture. The methods most used, and common in other secular and ecclesiastical tribunals, were garrucha, toca and the potro.

The application of the garrucha, also known as the strappado, consisted of suspending the victim from the ceiling by the wrists, which are tied behind the back. Sometimes weights were tied to the ankles, with a series of lifts and drops, during which the arms and legs suffered violent pulls and were sometimes dislocated.

The toca, also called interrogatorio mejorado del agua, consisted of introducing a cloth into the mouth of the victim, and forcing them to ingest water spilled from a jar so that they had the impression of drowning (see: waterboarding).

The potro, the rack, was the instrument of torture used most frequently.

The Church, itself, did not kill. The most serious punishment was relaxation to the secular arm for burning at the stake. This penalty was usually applied to impenitent heretics and those who had relapsed. Execution was public. If the condemned repented, they were shown mercy by being garroted before burning; if not, they were burned alive.

[Omah]

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2011-10-12/untold-amanda-knox-story-for-channel-5

A Channel 5 documentary about Amanda Knox is to show previously unseen footage of the murder scene of British student Meredith Kercher.

Amanda Knox: the Untold Story, made by ITN, will recount the details of the 2007 murder and the case that culminated in Knox's acquittal earlier this month. The documentary will also focus on the ongoing search for Kercher's killer.

Members of Knox's family are due to contribute to the programme, which is also expected to feature an exclusive interview with Patrick Lumumba, the man Knox initially accused of the murder.

Channel 5's Michelle Chappell, commissioning editor for news, current affairs and documentaries said: "The case of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito has gripped the world for over four years and this documentary attempts to unravel some of the unanswered questions and shocking mistakes surrounding the high-profile trial.

"It will seek to answer what happened that night in Perugia."

The hour-long documentary is in production now and planned to air before the end of October.

Now THAT should be interesting and, possibly, illuminating ..... :idc:

[Sticks]

This programme is on this Tuesday at 20:00

I wonder if this programme will prove that Amanda is guilty

[Iceman]

This programme is on this Tuesday at 20:00

I wonder if this programme will prove that Amanda is guilty

If two trials couldnt I highly doubt that Channel 5 can. :laugh2:

[Sticks]

Another link (http://primetime.unrealitytv.co.uk/amanda-knox-the-untold-story-on-five/)to the Channel Five programme

Some of the comments make interesting reading, and some of them seem to point to a website explaining why they say Amanda is guilty and the appeal court ruling is a travesty of justice

[InOne]

An interesting programme. I doubt they will ever find out what truly happened that night.

[Sticks]

The first half just showed that Amanda Knox still has a case to answer

[lostalex]

The channel; 5 programme was a remake of another programme they'd shown BEFORE the appeal. It was a total propaganda piece and the amount of time they allowed the corrupt and discredited prosecuter, MIGNINI, to speak in it proved what a hit piece it was.

It was the biggest load of CRAP i'd ever seen.

My favourite quote from it was "after ONLY 5 hours of interogation, Amanda pointed the finger at an innocent man". LMAO 2 "ONLY" 5 hours, as if 5 hours of being interogated in a foreign language is not much time at all???

Amanda suffered worse interogation techniques than people at Guantanamo bay would face!! Atleast epople at Guantanamo have3 laywers and translators and they arn't physically abused like Amanda was. Pathetiuc effort from channel 5.

If Meredith was not British i doubt we'd see this type of BS propaganda from the UK media, but unfortunately, the UK is incredibly nationalist and xenophobic. Especially against Americans and Italians.

[Sticks]

So what about her suspicious behaviour as pointed out by the programme?

As for the interrogation, when someone is hiding something you need to use a robust technique to break through the lies and make them tell the truth. Even with these robust techniques she was still wrapped up in lie, indicated by her trying to frame an innocent man.

Lets not forget she is still a convicted criminal who served three years for lying to the police about her former boss. As the prosecutors say, why would she lie, if she were not involved?

That is why the next court will overturn this appeal and lets hope if that happens, we can make the US government finally honour their treaties and hand Amanda back to serve her sentence for murder.

[Jords]

I watch the Ch4 documentary. Its awful how shes lost 4 years of her life.

Im really interested what actually took place though.

[Sticks]

I watch the Ch4 documentary. Its awful how shes lost 4 years of her life.

Im really interested what actually took place though.

Did you mean the Channel 5 documentary or was there one on Channel 4 as well:conf:

[Ammi]

We are none the wiser as to what happened that night and I'm not sure we ever will be. The only 'fact' in the documentary is that Meredith is the victim here and I cannot imagine how difficult this is for her family..the 'details' of what happened to her that night are hard enough to bear..but to feel that there is a very real probability that the persons responsible will never be brought to justice is horrendous. My thoughts are for Meredith and her family.

[Jords]

Did you mean the Channel 5 documentary or was there one on Channel 4 as well:conf:

Yepp youre right :tongue:

[Sticks]

This website (http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php) seems to have quite a bit of evidence still against Miss Knox.

One paragraph states

Lawyers posting on PMF and TJMK and some others who don’t but talk with us are suspecting that Judge Hellman, in his blunt refusal to allow the prosecution any DNA re-testing, in his jury briefing, in his garbled announcement of the appeal verdict, and in his contradictory comments in the next several days, may have made enough legal mistakes for a 75% probability that the Supreme Court will insist on a major revisiting of the case or even a complete new appeal trial.

It seems to think that the Supreme court will definitely overturn this travesty of justice and reinstate the guilty verdicts

[Mystic Mock]

Im sorry but the evidence was enough to find her guilty imo.

[lostalex]

Im sorry but the evidence was enough to find her guilty imo.

remind me again of the evidence....?????

there was ZERO evidence, so please, if you have evidence, give it to the italians, cause they don't have any!!!

[lostalex]

The Italian prosecution is appealing and if they are successful, I hope the USA step up to the mark and allow this woman to be returned to Italy. If they do not, I hope every country in the world in future refuse to cooperate with the USA when it comes to extradition. It is not one rule for the USA and one rule for the rest of the world.

Why should the USA return any extradition request, when Roman Polanski, who admits to raping and drugging a small girl, is allowed to live freely in Europe with no extradition to the USA???

If you give us Roman Polanski, then maybe we can talk about Amanda Knox. Until then, you have NO room to talk about extradition.

[Sticks]

remind me again of the evidence....?????

there was ZERO evidence, so please, if you have evidence, give it to the italians, cause they don't have any!!!

What about the evidence put forward by this website (http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php)

[Shasown]

Why should the USA return any extradition request, when Roman Polanski, who admits to raping and drugging a small girl, is allowed to live freely in Europe with no extradition to the USA???

If you give us Roman Polanski, then maybe we can talk about Amanda Knox. Until then, you have NO room to talk about extradition.

Europe is not one country, if the US negotiates an extradition treaty with a country, the treaty should stand for both sides.

Having seen the way the US backed out of ratifying the US/UK Extradition treaty and still expect the UK to turn over anyone the US want, most countries wont bother listening to the US.

Just to reiterate, Amanda Knox trial - Italy Roman Polanski - France and Switzerland.

You appear to have also overlooked in the Polanski case the fact he did undergo trial and thought a bargain had been reached by the reduction of charges and probation and treatment in a clinic at the courts order. The judge then indicated to Polankski's attroney that he had changed his mind and though jail and deportation to be a more suitable punishment even though the prosecuting attorney asked for probation.

Even the prosecuting attorney stated that Polanski's treatment at the hands of a fame hungry judge was unfair. France doesnt have an extradition treaty with the US and Switzerland stated that Polanski had indeed served his original sentence.

Cant wait to read the garbage you will write in defence of the US legal system regarding extradition in rebuttal.

[Sticks]

I was surprised that given the prosecution was always planning to appeal, (and from what I read will be successful in overturning this travesty of justice), why they could not have got a judge to have Amanda detained in Italy and banned from leaving until the the Supreme court in Rome heard the case.

[lostalex]

Europe is not one country, if the US negotiates an extradition treaty with a country, the treaty should stand for both sides.

Having seen the way the US backed out of ratifying the US/UK Extradition treaty and still expect the UK to turn over anyone the US want, most countries wont bother listening to the US.

Just to reiterate, Amanda Knox trial - Italy Roman Polanski - France and Switzerland.

You appear to have also overlooked in the Polanski case the fact he did undergo trial and thought a bargain had been reached by the reduction of charges and probation and treatment in a clinic at the courts order. The judge then indicated to Polankski's attroney that he had changed his mind and though jail and deportation to be a more suitable punishment even though the prosecuting attorney asked for probation.

Even the prosecuting attorney stated that Polanski's treatment at the hands of a fame hungry judge was unfair. France doesnt have an extradition treaty with the US and Switzerland stated that Polanski had indeed served his original sentence.

Cant wait to read the garbage you will write in defence of the US legal system regarding extradition in rebuttal.

really? drugging and rapping a child should just cary a punishment of rehab??

Sorry, but in America, when you drug and rape a child, you get jail time.

Here's a messege to all people who want to drug and rape children, don't do it in America, because we'll put you in jail!

If you want to drug and rape children, do it in Europe.

[Sticks]

Meanwhile back on topic, as the Italian prosecutors are taking this to the Supreme Court in Rome where experts are 100% certain this appeal will be overturned and the original conviction reinstated, why could they not block Amanda Knox leaving Italy?

That website I linked to earlier shows that there is plenty of other evidence to show that Amanda is guilty of murdering Meredith in a sordid sex game, just as the Italian Prosecutor said.

Just because they did not collect evidence like they do on the TV show, CSI, the biased and flawed appeal court chose to discount it and ignore the mountain of other evidence against Amanda Knox.

As for that Roman Polanski side issue, we were taught that two wrongs do not make a right, so if there is a shred of decency in the US administration and any respect for the rule of law, they will have Amanda Knox extradited back to serve her sentence.

[Shasown]

really? drugging and rapping a child should just cary a punishment of rehab??

Sorry, but in America, when you drug and rape a child, you get jail time.

Here's a messege to all people who want to drug and rape children, don't do it in America, because we'll put you in jail!

If you want to drug and rape children, do it in Europe.

Before you get on your high horse and getting all pretentious about American Justice and good old US family values etc. I would go have a read up on the trial and the whole situation, it will save you looking like an idiot.

Ooooops tooo late for that.


Meanwhile back on topic, as the Italian prosecutors are taking this to the Supreme Court in Rome where experts are 100% certain this appeal will be overturned and the original conviction reinstated, why could they not block Amanda Knox leaving Italy?

That website I linked to earlier shows that there is plenty of other evidence to show that Amanda is guilty of murdering Meredith in a sordid sex game, just as the Italian Prosecutor said.

Just because they did not collect evidence like they do on the TV show, CSI, the biased and flawed appeal court chose to discount it and ignore the mountain of other evidence against Amanda Knox.

As for that Roman Polanski side issue, we were taught that two wrongs do not make a right, so if there is a shred of decency in the US administration and any respect for the rule of law, they will have Amanda Knox extradited back to serve her sentence.

Hopefully the Supreme Court will see sense and order at least a retrial

They couldnt block her from leaving the country because of the ruling by the appeal judge, "she was innocent" if it had of been possible for him to make a ruling whereby she could have been retrialed then he probably would have. However because of the nature of the appeal he had to deceide about the validity of certain evidence used in the trial and in its invalidation as to the likely outcome of the trial as was.

Unlikely the US will allow her to be extradited their laws and consttution dont really allow for it.

[Sticks]

Then the Italians will have to issue an international arrest warrant so that if she steps one foot out of the US we can get here.

Interestingly Seattle in Washington State is just a few hours drive of the Canadian border. If she were in Canada when the Italians demand her back, they would be more likely to comply with the rule of law.

[Bluerang1]

The main investigator was a sneak! He did the same thing with another case.

[lostalex]

Then the Italians will have to issue an international arrest warrant so that if she steps one foot out of the US we can get here.

Interestingly Seattle in Washington State is just a few hours drive of the Canadian border. If she were in Canada when the Italians demand her back, they would be more likely to comply with the rule of law.
yur joking right? lol, you think Canada, under the ultra right leadership of Harper would go against the USA? you obviously don't know much about Canadian politics.

Yur talking about the same Canada that is the only western country that didn't repatriate it's detaine's from Guantanamo right? the same Canada that let little Omar Khadr sit in Guantanamo for 6 years, right???

lol

here, i'll do the home work for you... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Khadr

You obviously know nothing about Canada.

[lostalex]

Europe is not one country, if the US negotiates an extradition treaty with a country, the treaty should stand for both sides.

Having seen the way the US backed out of ratifying the US/UK Extradition treaty and still expect the UK to turn over anyone the US want, most countries wont bother listening to the US.

Just to reiterate, Amanda Knox trial - Italy Roman Polanski - France and Switzerland.

You appear to have also overlooked in the Polanski case the fact he did undergo trial and thought a bargain had been reached by the reduction of charges and probation and treatment in a clinic at the courts order. The judge then indicated to Polankski's attroney that he had changed his mind and though jail and deportation to be a more suitable punishment even though the prosecuting attorney asked for probation.

Even the prosecuting attorney stated that Polanski's treatment at the hands of a fame hungry judge was unfair. France doesnt have an extradition treaty with the US and Switzerland stated that Polanski had indeed served his original sentence.

Cant wait to read the garbage you will write in defence of the US legal system regarding extradition in rebuttal.

tell me how it was unfair. he drugged and rapped a child by his own admission. Tell me what YOU think is a fair punishment for drugging and RAPING a child. having sex with a CHILD that is unconcious on drugs that he gave her,. please tell me what YOU think would be a fair punishment.!

I'm curious to know.

I'd like to know what punishment you think is fair if it was your daughter who was drugged and raped.

An old man gave drugs to a child and then had sex with the child while the child was unconscious., what punishment do YOU think would be fair???

Please explain how thew US justice system is wrong for demanding he pay for that crime. Tell me what YOU think would be fair punishment.

Please tell me what is the "fair" punishment for someone who RAPES A CHILD. You tell me.

[Livia]

tell me how it was unfair. he drugged and rapped a child by his own admission. Tell me what YOU think is a fair punishment for drugging and RAPING a child. having sex with a CHILD that is unconcious on drugs that he gave her,. please tell me what YOU think would be a fair punishment.!

I'm curious to know.

I'd like to know what punishment you think is fair if it was your daughter who was drugged and raped.

An old man gave drugs to a child and then had sex with the child while the child was unconscious., what punishment do YOU think would be fair???

Please explain how thew US justice system is wrong for demanding he pay for that crime. Tell me what YOU think would be fair punishment.

Please tell me what is the "fair" punishment for someone who RAPES A CHILD. You tell me.


What's this got to do with the Amanda Knox case?

[Shasown]

tell me how it was unfair. he drugged and rapped a child by his own admission. Tell me what YOU think is a fair punishment for drugging and RAPING a child. having sex with a CHILD that is unconcious on drugs that he gave her,. please tell me what YOU think would be a fair punishment.!

I'm curious to know.

I'd like to know what punishment you think is fair if it was your daughter who was drugged and raped.

An old man gave drugs to a child and then had sex with the child while the child was unconscious., what punishment do YOU think would be fair???

Please explain how thew US justice system is wrong for demanding he pay for that crime. Tell me what YOU think would be fair punishment.

Please tell me what is the "fair" punishment for someone who RAPES A CHILD. You tell me.

I didnt say it was fair or unfair, please READ my posts properly, if you have problems with any big words ask an adult to explain them to you.

If you had read up on the Polanski case you would find out that a plea bargain had taken place with the judge involved and punishments etc already agreed upon. That was the reasoning behind the Swiss refusal to extradite.

But why let the facts get in the way of your usual "America is wonderful" rants.

Just to reiterate the point, the Amanda Knox trial and potential retrial doesnt have anything to do with the Polanksi case, there are three (thats three - pointee finger, middle finger and ringo) separate countries involved in the two different cases.

[lostalex]

I didnt say it was fair or unfair, please READ my posts properly, if you have problems with any big words ask an adult to explain them to you.

If you had read up on the Polanski case you would find out that a plea bargain had taken place with the judge involved and punishments etc already agreed upon. That was the reasoning behind the Swiss refusal to extradite.

But why let the facts get in the way of your usual "America is wonderful" rants.

Just to reiterate the point, the Amanda Knox trial and potential retrial doesnt have anything to do with the Polanksi case, there are three (thats three - pointee finger, middle finger and ringo) separate countries involved in the two different cases.

Rreally this is about my being American? so now being American means that justice isimpossible. Has Roman Polanski ever denied drugging and raping a child?? no.

So why are you defending him??

I've asked you dozens of times now, what do you think is fair punishment for drugging and raping a child?? Why can't you answer that question??

[lostalex]

If you have evidence against Amanda Knox, then why arn't you giving it to the Italians?? There is no evidence against her.

[lostalex]

Then the Italians will have to issue an international arrest warrant so that if she steps one foot out of the US we can get here.

Interestingly Seattle in Washington State is just a few hours drive of the Canadian border. If she were in Canada when the Italians demand her back, they would be more likely to comply with the rule of law.


lol, you think Canadians would support Italy over the US? you obvioously know nothing about the relationship between Canada and the US.

[Sticks]

lol, you think Canadians would support Italy over the US? you obvioously know nothing about the relationship between Canada and the US.

And how many troops did Canada send to operation Restore Freedom in Iraq as opposed to how many we sent to Iraq?

Moving on from that foray off topic


Both Amanda and her ex are now set to receive their blood money as she has signed a book deal (See here) (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2070305/Amanda-Knox-strikes-deal-President-Obamas-book-agent-just-ex-lover-announces-pen-tell-book-too.html)

I note that the DM stopped allowing comments on that story and anyone supporting this pair get red arrows.

Am still awaiting the decision of the supreme court in Rome where experts confidently predict that that sham of an appeal will overturned and the original convictions reinstated.

When that happens, as stated before, ad nauseum, we should use our special relationship with the US to make them send Amanda Knox back to Italy to serve her sentence for murdering Meredith Kercher :mad:

[Marsh.]

lostalex, yes there was evidence against her but the Italian police were too damn incompetent to make sure they got it and contaminated the crime scene.

It's like the incompetence shown during the Stephen Lawrence investigation, with evidence not being secured properly.

I may not 100% know Amanda Knox is guilty for murder but she sure as hell is not 100% innocent, she was involved one way or another it's as plain as the nose on her face. Her stories in the investigation already prove what a liar she is.

Whatever part she did play in the death of Meredith I hope she gets what she deserves eventually. Nothing more disgusting than seeing this criminal making money out of the situation.

OT - There's so many Americans who don't think about the fact there's a whole world outside the Supreme US of A so I'm not surprised they think of Europe as one of its own.

[lostalex]

lostalex, yes there was evidence against her but the Italian police were too damn incompetent to make sure they got it and contaminated the crime scene.

It's like the incompetence shown during the Stephen Lawrence investigation, with evidence not being secured properly.

I may not 100% know Amanda Knox is guilty for murder but she sure as hell is not 100% innocent, she was involved one way or another it's as plain as the nose on her face. Her stories in the investigation already prove what a liar she is.

Whatever part she did play in the death of Meredith I hope she gets what she deserves eventually. Nothing more disgusting than seeing this criminal making money out of the situation.

OT - There's so many Americans who don't think about the fact there's a whole world outside the Supreme US of A so I'm not surprised they think of Europe as one of its own.

what are you talking about? America treats all good looking white girls like angels? i guess tyou've never heard of CASEY ANTHONY lol.

America can smell guilty, but when there's no evidence, there's no evidence. All of America thinks Casey Anthony is guilty, but she was found not guilty, because there was no evidence. So don't act like it's just America thinking we're superior to Italy, we have cases liek this here too, but if there is no evidence, you have to follow the law. The italian prosecutors did not follow the law.

If there's not enuf evidence, then you have to set them free, that's how justice works.

[Marsh.]

America treats all good looking white girls like angels? i guess tyou've never heard of CASEY ANTHONY lol.

So don't act like it's just America thinking we're superior to Italy,


You've read my post and come to that conclusion?

My post had nothing to do with America's treatment of "pretty white girls" or being superior to Italy. I won't bother repeating myself because you've ignored what I put in the post and started a completely different discussion.

My comment about Europe and America was referring to some American's thinking of Europe as one country, nothing to do with the Amanda Knox case (hence the use of OT).

[Sticks]

The report on why the appeal judges did what they did, from:

The Daily Mail (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2074638/Amanda-Knox-Police-prosecutors-blasted-harsh-treatment-Foxy-Knoxy.html)

The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/15/amanda-knox-trial-flawed-says-judge?newsfeed=true)

I await the third round, which experts have said will reinstate the convictions as the appeal was flawed and biased from the very start.

[Sticks]

The third round has started (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2101078/Amanda-Knox-Italian-prosecutors-launch-appeal-acquittal.html)

Lets hope the US complies with extradition requests when this woman is sent back to jail after that appeal is overturned as most experts say it will

[Ammi]

I've just read that she's landed a £2.5 million book deal :(

[King Gizzard]

No money should be made from this whatsoever. Just move on

[Jords]

No money should be made from this whatsoever. Just move on

She had 4 years of her life wasted...

[Jords]

2.5 million is crazy though :laugh:

[King Gizzard]

She wouldn't have made that much money in that time though, that's crazy

Fair enough it was probably a bidding war by publishers but still

[Sticks]

She had 4 years of her life wasted...

And what of Meredith?

Experts which have looked at this say she has a case to answer and is most likely GUILTY of first degree murder.

That appeal was a sham and some of the so called independent witnesses were too cosy with the defence, and one of the appeal judges made a comment that should have stopped the appeal right there.

Ergo this appeal will be overturned, according to legal experts and the guilty verdicts reimposed.

I found it incredible that while they had this third round, they let the pair of them go! They should have been held in jail pending this third round :mad:

Right now we need to all press our MP's or whoever to get our government to make the US authorities extradite this woman to serve the rest of her sentence should that appeal be overturned, as some experts say it will be.

[arista]

And what of Meredith?

Experts which have looked at this say she has a case to answer and is most likely GUILTY of first degree murder.

That appeal was a sham and some of the so called independent witnesses were too cosy with the defence, and one of the appeal judges made a comment that should have stopped the appeal right there.

Ergo this appeal will be overturned, according to legal experts and the guilty verdicts reimposed.

I found it incredible that while they had this third round, they let the pair of them go! They should have been held in jail pending this third round :mad:

Right now we need to all press our MP's or whoever to get our government to make the US authorities extradite this woman to serve the rest of her sentence should that appeal be overturned, as some experts say it will be.


Yes Sticks Very Valid Point

[Jords]

Not valid at all.

Its very sad what happened to Meredith. A waste of a life. But if Amanda IS innocent she has no to have 4 years of life snatched and way and for people to say so what? If you were in her shoes youd feel very very different about that. Not fair at all.

[Livia]

It's a matter of conjecture. No one here has seen the evidence, no one has read the police reports, examined the crime scene, heard transcripts of the suspects being interviewed... the only people who can say whether there is enough evidence to put Amanda Knox away for murder are the lawyers handling the case. Until they get their act together and either present the evidence they have, or admit that there is not enough evidence for a retrial, the discussion will just go round in circles.

[arista]

Not valid at all.

Its very sad what happened to Meredith. A waste of a life. But if Amanda IS innocent she has no to have 4 years of life snatched and way and for people to say so what? If you were in her shoes youd feel very very different about that. Not fair at all.



No she is Not
she is part of that sex gang game.

[Ammi]

It's a matter of conjecture. No one here has seen the evidence, no one has read the police reports, examined the crime scene, heard transcripts of the suspects being interviewed... the only people who can say whether there is enough evidence to put Amanda Knox away for murder are the lawyers handling the case. Until they get their act together and either present the evidence they have, or admit that there is not enough evidence for a retrial, the discussion will just go round in circles.

Exactly..and when the conclusion is reached, Meredith's family will have to accept it and if it's the case, find peace with it. There was a case in 1988 of Julie Ward who was brutally murdered in Kenya, after several trials but insufficient evidence, her murderer/s were never convicted. Her father has devoted over 20 years to unsuccessfully achieve justice for her death. It has been his life. I hope this doesn't happen to the Kercher family too. I hope they are able to accept the court decisions...what we think is irrelevant

[Livia]

Oops... I meant "read transcripts".

[Tom4784]

If the conviction was overturned in the first place then it mustn't have been that strong of a case against her in the first place. Innocent until proven guilty with a conviction that sticks I guess.

[Jords]

No she is Not
she is part of that sex gang game.

Not my thing but its not a crime.............................

[Sticks]

Not my thing but its not a crime.............................

Except when you slit someone's throat

[Sticks]

Amanda is now on trial for slander

Link 1 (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/02/amanda-knoxs-slander-trial-moved-to-florence/)

Link 2 (http://www.examiner.com/article/should-amanda-knox-be-convicted-of-slander)

If there is any justice in the world, she will be convicted of slander, given the maximum and extradited back to Italy.

Also this March the prosecution will finally get to over turn that farce of an appeal, and with luck treble her sentence for murdering Meredith.

[lostalex]

Amanda is now on trial for slander

Link 1 (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/02/amanda-knoxs-slander-trial-moved-to-florence/)

Link 2 (http://www.examiner.com/article/should-amanda-knox-be-convicted-of-slander)

If there is any justice in the world, she will be convicted of slander, given the maximum and extradited back to Italy.

Also this March the prosecution will finally get to over turn that farce of an appeal, and with luck treble her sentence for murdering Meredith.

the Italian Police make Guantanamo Bay look like a summer camp. They tortured her. And now they are SUING her basically for telling the world about how they tortured her.

Italy is a 3rd world country. There's no doubt about that any more.

Let's remember that originally the prosecution accussed her of being a satanic WITCH. This is a country that still thinks calling a woman a witch is an acceptable form of prosecution.

this is a country where Berlusconi is not in jail, even though it's obvious he raped a child. Why does anyone take anything from Italy seriously anymore? Italy, who's closest relationship is Russia.

[Sticks]

She was never tortured, that is a lie and why she is being prosecuted for slander

[Glenn.]

You have no evidence to suggest she wasn't tortured?

[Sticks]

Why would they be prosecuting her for slander if she was?

She is a known liar.

She lied about her boss to deflect attention away from her and her then boyfriend.

[SharkAttack]

Why would they be prosecuting her for slander if she was?

She is a known liar.

She lied about her boss to deflect attention away from her and her then boyfriend.

Regardless of whether she was tortured or not, they *have* to prosecute for slander to save face. Natural turn of events. Hated this case from the beginning, and still despise it now.

[Benjamin]

I still don't believe she had anything to with the murder.

[lostalex]

Why would they be prosecuting her for slander if she was?

She is a known liar.

She lied about her boss to deflect attention away from her and her then boyfriend.


No. She "lied" about her boss because the brutal Italian police were Beating her until she agreed that her boss was guilty. It was the Italian Police that suspected her boss, and they tortured her for 10 hours including both mental and physical abuse until she finally agreed with their scenario. Then when it was proven that her boss was innocent, to save face, they claimed that it was her who was lying, when it fact it was the italian cops all along who forced her to point the finger at her boss.

Why did it take 10 hours of interrogation before she pointed the finger at her boss? If she was going to lie, why didn't she point the finger at him right away? If she had a plot to point the finger at her boss why did it take 10 hours of police torture before she pointed the finger at her boss? It's because the police wanted her to say it was her bioss, and they beat her until she said what they wanted her to say.


I've followed the entire case closely, and there is not a single shred of evidence that points to Amanda or Raffaele in the murder at all.

The man that is guilty of killing Meredith is already in jail serving 16 years for her murder. His name is Rudy Guede.

Why is it that Rudy Guede's finger prints were all over the entire crime scene , but Amanda or Raffaele's finger prints were nowhere to be found? Can you explain how someone can only erase their own fingerprints, and still leave thousands of finger prints by Rudy Guede? It makes no sense.

[MTVN]

the Italian Police make Guantanamo Bay look like a summer camp. They tortured her. And now they are SUING her basically for telling the world about how they tortured her.

Italy is a 3rd world country. There's no doubt about that any more.

Let's remember that originally the prosecution accussed her of being a satanic WITCH. This is a country that still thinks calling a woman a witch is an acceptable form of prosecution.

this is a country where Berlusconi is not in jail, even though it's obvious he raped a child. Why does anyone take anything from Italy seriously anymore? Italy, who's closest relationship is Russia.

Not sure that's entirely accurate.. Berlusconi is currently standing trial as well

[lostalex]

Not sure that's entirely accurate.. Berlusconi is currently standing trial as well

well it's my understanding that he is back in politics recently... he's being treated like a serious candidate for his party...

[MTVN]

He is running again for Prime Minister but it's very unlikely he'll be voted in, he'll have to contend for election while fighting this current court case as well

[lostalex]

He is running again for Prime Minister but it's very unlikely he'll be voted in, he'll have to contend for election while fighting this current court case as well

yea, also wasn't the prosecutor that first called Amanda a "witch" and claimed she was performing a "satanic ritual" wasn't he also being investigated for corruption? what ever happened with that?

The level of corruption in the italian political and judicial system are more than clear to me. We all know how *******ed the Italian system is. Anyone with half a brain knows. (no offense Sticks)

[Sticks]

Today is the day, hopefully the Italian Supreme court will overturn that monstrosity of an appeal that freed Amanda Knox

See here on the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21921883)

Prosecutors argue that the October 2011 acquittals failed to take into account other key evidence against Miss Knox and Mr Sollecito.

[SharkAttack]

Today is the day, hopefully the Italian Supreme court will overturn that monstrosity of an appeal that freed Amanda Knox

See here on the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21921883)

Democratic courts are slow and have several appeals and waiting, and trials, and delays with more waiting for evidence, and recesses. Years pass, and then it's still ongoing. I know that's there for the protection of people, but it does not make for good news watching. :joker:

[Nedusa]

No chance of any appeal being turned over in this case... Be rest assured this case is do e and dusted.

I do not honestly believe the Italian authorities would dare to take this course of action after everything that has happened in this case. To overturn this appeal would create a serious rift between Italy and the US.

The US would never recognise such a move and would certainly never allow her to be extradited back to Italy. It is certainly not in Italy's interests to go down this road..!!!

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21936308

Italy's highest court has ordered US student Amanda Knox and her former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito to face a retrial over the 2007 killing of Briton Meredith Kercher.

Prosecutors appealed and the Court of Cassation overturned the acquittals.

Addressing the court on Monday, they urged the judges to "make sure the final curtain does not drop on this shocking and dire crime".

Miss Knox's Italian lawyer, Luciano Ghirga, said on Monday her client was "very anxious" about the latest hearing.

Miss Knox lives in Seattle and a retrial is likely to take place in absentia, as the US is unlikely to extradite her, analysts say.

:idc:

[Jords]

fgs

[Omah]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21936308

Miss Knox said the news was "painful" but she was "confident in the truth".

Italian law cannot compel Miss Knox, who lives in Seattle, to return for the re-running of her appeal.

If she is convicted, Italy could seek her extradition.

In a statement, Miss Knox said: "It was painful to receive the news that the Italian Supreme Court decided to send my case back for revision when the prosecution's theory of my involvement in Meredith's murder has been repeatedly revealed to be completely unfounded and unfair."

She added: "No matter what happens, my family and I will face this continuing legal battle as we always have, confident in the truth and with our heads held high in the face of wrongful accusations and unreasonable adversity."

Confidence unfounded ..... :suspect:

[Sticks]

With the overturning of the acquittal this eans Amanda Knox is a Convicted Murderer

She murdered Meredith because she refused to take part in Amanda's sordid sex game, exactly as the prosecution says.

If the US president cares a fig for rule of law and Justice, this convicted murderer will be put on a plane in chains back to Italy.

Amanda Fox in the eyes of the law is guilty of murdering Meredith Kercher, that is what the Italian Supreme court has said, vindicating the original prosecutors.

Does anyone know if there is an E-petition to ask the PM to press Obama for her extradition to Italy?

[lostalex]

With the overturning of the acquittal this eans Amanda Knox is a Convicted Murderer

She murdered Meredith because she refused to take part in Amanda's sordid sex game, exactly as the prosecution says.

If the US president cares a fig for rule of law and Justice, this convicted murderer will be put on a plane in chains back to Italy.

Amanda Fox in the eyes of the law is guilty of murdering Meredith Kercher, that is what the Italian Supreme court has said, vindicating the original prosecutors.

Does anyone know if there is an E-petition to ask the PM to press Obama for her extradition to Italy?

Meredith's family really are despicable creatures for pressing this. They can't accept that their daughter was just raped and murdered by a drifter who is already being punished for his crime, instead they need some grand conspiracy involving satanism, or maybe it's because they want to be able to sue Amanda Knox and get money from her family.

Meredith would be very ashamed of her family. They don't belong in any respectable courtroom, they belong on the Jeremy Kyle show. imho.

This whole thing has been a farce. Amanda and Rafaelle have been the only respectable characters in this whole sordid story. Shame on the Italian and British tabloid media, and shame on the Kercher family.

[Nedusa]

The evidence in this case was flawed along with the police investigation, I never believed these two would plan to trap a good friend into a Satanic ritual and then rape and murder her. The prosecution's case was full of holes and I was shocked when they were both found guilty. I am happy the case was overturned on appeal but outraged they had to stay in prison for over 4 years. The Italian authorities have a lot to answer for in this case.

As for the latest developments to overturn the appeal and re-instate the guilty verdicts well this is too much and I hope the defence teams in this case now have the backing of US officials at the highest levels and that they say to the Italians in no uncertain terms enough is enough. The convictions were and still are unsafe and as such these two people will never be allowed to be extradicted back to Italy for another Kangaroo trial.

The Italian Police & Judiciary need to be severely chastised over this whole sad incident and it made very clear to them that International Law will not tolerate such second rate flawed, corrupt investigations/trials in a supposed modern democratic European country...!!!!!

[lostalex]

The evidence in this case was flawed along with the police investigation, I never believed these two would plan to trap a good friend into a Satanic ritual and then rape and murder her. The prosecution's case was full of holes and I was shocked when they were both found guilty. I am happy the case was overturned on appeal but outraged they had to stay in prison for over 4 years. The Italian authorities have a lot to answer for in this case.

As for the latest developments to overturn the appeal and re-instate the guilty verdicts well this is too much and I hope the defence teams in this case now have the backing of US officials at the highest levels and that they say to the Italians in no uncertain terms enough is enough. The convictions were and still are unsafe and as such these two people will never be allowed to be extradicted back to Italy for another Kangaroo trial.

The Italian Police & Judiciary need to be severely chastised over this whole sad incident and it made very clear to them that International Law will not tolerate such second rate flawed, corrupt investigations/trials in a supposed modern democratic European country...!!!!!


perfect post.

I don't see how anyone that has actually looked at all of the evidence could come to any other conclusion. How can there be thousands of fingerprints from Rudy Guede, but none from Amanda and Rafealle. I still haven't heard any of the Kercher family, or the prosecution, or people like Sticks explain how it's possible to only erase your own finger prints but leave someone else's behind.

How do you wipe surfaces and clean surfaces of your own finger prints, and leave the finger prints of someone else behind? it makes no sense. Italy is just embarassed because of what a mess they've made in this case, and frankly, i feel sorry for the many innocent Italians in jail that don't have the same kind of media interest and the Knox family's efforts to fight this. i wonder if even my own family would fight for me as hard as they have fought for her. They truly are a very good family to fight for her so hard, even mortgaging their house to pay for lawyers. The Knox family have been amazing, she is very lucky to have such a great family.

I am very critical of the American justice system for many reasons, but this case has definitely made me appreciate the American justice system. Now i have to admit, at least it's not as bad as the Italian justice system. It could be a LOT worse.

[Tom4784]

It's a waste of time, I can't imagine them being able to achieve anything at this stage and even if they could I doubt they'd actually ever be able to extradite her now she's back in the US.

[Sticks]

Rafealle is in Italy so he can be locked up and good riddence

If Americans even care about RULE OF LAW!!! or obsolete concepts like justice, they will put Amanda Knox on a plane in handcuffs back to Italy to serve the rest of her sentence for the cold blooded murder of Meredith Kercher.

There was plenty of other evidence, like the odd behaviour and the lies Amanda told to pass the blame. I am not even sure the man serving time even did the murder, and I suspect he could be totally innocent of this crime. He just happens not to be white.

(Check out the US penal system with the number of non whites in prison compared to whites)

The ruling from the Italian supreme court has totally vindicated the prosecution case and shown so called concerns over forensics to be a total red herring cooked up by a defence team clutching at non existent straws!!! The evidence against Amanda Knox is compelling, total and damming.

The Kercher family have been dignified in their grief while actions of the parents of Amanda have been totally reprehensible. They have even committed slander, just like Amanda has done against the police claiming falsely that they beat her. How can anyone believe a compulsive and convicted slanderer like Amanda Knox.

If the Knox family had had any shred of decency, they would have disinherited and disowned their murdering daughter and let her rot for the crime she has been rightly convicted of

Justice for Meredith!
Extradite Amanda Knox NOW!!

[lostalex]

There was plenty of other evidence, like the odd behaviour and the lies Amanda told to pass the blame.

Odd behavior is not EVIDENCE, and who are you to determine what is odd behavior in that situation? And the only lies Amanda told were after 10 hours of "interrogation" (which if it were in Guantanamo would be called "torture") by the Italian Police. Maybe if you had been locked in a small room and physically abused for 10 hours you'd say whatever you can to make them stop.

[Sticks]

Odd behavior is not EVIDENCE, and who are you to determine what is odd behavior in that situation? And the only lies Amanda told were after 10 hours of "interrogation" (which if it were in Guantanamo would be called "torture") by the Italian Police. Maybe if you had been locked in a small room and physically abused for 10 hours you'd say whatever you can to make them stop.

And that so called interrogation was another pack of lies told by Amanda Knox, it never happened and she has been convicted of slander for saying it happened

[lostalex]

And that so called interrogation was another pack of lies told by Amanda Knox, it never happened and she has been convicted of slander for saying it happened

She was convicted of slander by the same people that abused her. That's like asking an oil company to estimate the cost of their own oil spill.

[Nedusa]

Rafealle is in Italy so he can be locked up and good riddence

If Americans even care about RULE OF LAW!!! or obsolete concepts like justice, they will put Amanda Knox on a plane in handcuffs back to Italy to serve the rest of her sentence for the cold blooded murder of Meredith Kercher.

There was plenty of other evidence, like the odd behaviour and the lies Amanda told to pass the blame. I am not even sure the man serving time even did the murder, and I suspect he could be totally innocent of this crime. He just happens not to be white.

(Check out the US penal system with the number of non whites in prison compared to whites)

The ruling from the Italian supreme court has totally vindicated the prosecution case and shown so called concerns over forensics to be a total red herring cooked up by a defence team clutching at non existent straws!!! The evidence against Amanda Knox is compelling, total and damming.

The Kercher family have been dignified in their grief while actions of the parents of Amanda have been totally reprehensible. They have even committed slander, just like Amanda has done against the police claiming falsely that they beat her. How can anyone believe a compulsive and convicted slanderer like Amanda Knox.

If the Knox family had had any shred of decency, they would have disinherited and disowned their murdering daughter and let her rot for the crime she has been rightly convicted of

Justice for Meredith!
Extradite Amanda Knox NOW!!

Get a grip.... Your ridiculous trolling posts are fooling nobody... !!! You don't believe Amanda Knox is guilty for one second. You have followed this case and are well aware of the shortfalls in the evidence and the high degree of corruption and incompetence shown by both the Italian Police and the Italian courts.

No... I think you just enjoy playing devils advocate to make the people who do actually care about this story jump through hoops replying to your ever more contrived posts citing the capture and execution of Amanda Knox

You must be quite amused by all of this but this is a forum for serious well reasoned debate not somewhere where you can play your sick mind games.

So I would respectfully suggest you stop this nonsense and have some respect for people who are trying to earnestly debate these issues...!!!

[Sticks]

If you look through this thread you will find other members convinced of her guilt, even the statistic about the US prison system having 70% of the inmates being non white.

There are other arguments for her guilt here (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111003211928AAdPvPp) on Yahoo answers

[Ammi]

Get a grip.... Your ridiculous trolling posts are fooling nobody... !!! You don't believe Amanda Knox is guilty for one second. You have followed this case and are well aware of the shortfalls in the evidence and the high degree of corruption and incompetence shown by both the Italian Police and the Italian courts.

No... I think you just enjoy playing devils advocate to make the people who do actually care about this story jump through hoops replying to your ever more contrived posts citing the capture and execution of Amanda Knox

You must be quite amused by all of this but this is a forum for serious well reasoned debate not somewhere where you can play your sick mind games.

So I would respectfully suggest you stop this nonsense and have some respect for people who are trying to earnestly debate these issues...!!!

..whether anyone personally believes Amanda Knox' innocence or not is irrelevant as for the moment she has been found innocent and so she is unless proven otherwise in a court of law...but if you look through this thread you will see that the member you're addressing most definately does believe her guilt and if you look at any other threads and posts made by this member, you will see that they are most definately not a troll, but very well respected..and with genuine and intelligent views ....

[Sticks]

This article (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/27/us-italy-knox-extradition-idUSBRE92Q01020130327) gives a glimmer of hope that the US will be compelled to send her back when she is again considered guilty of murder in the retrial.

[Munchkins]

If you look through this thread you will find other members convinced of her guilt, even the statistic about the US prison system having 70% of the inmates being non white.

There are other arguments for her guilt here on Yahoo answers


Yeah Yahoo answers the most reliable source :laugh2: :laugh2:

[Kizzy]

Well much as I hate to jump into a debate feet first, I don't think for a second Amanda Knox will be returned to Italy.
Don't they have double jeopardy, so to them a retrial would be unlawful wouldn't it?

[Sticks]

Well much as I hate to jump into a debate feet first, I don't think for a secong Amana Knox will be returned to Italy.
Don't they have double jeopardy, so to them a retrial would be unlawful wouldn't it?

Double Jeopardy my not apply - See here (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/27/us-italy-knox-extradition-idUSBRE92Q01020130327)

Like I said earlier, I was surprised the Italian authorities did not stop her leaving the country since it was certain the prosecution were going to appeal.

[Nedusa]

..whether anyone personally believes Amanda Knox' innocence or not is irrelevant as for the moment she has been found innocent and so she is unless proven otherwise in a court of law...but if you look through this thread you will see that the member you're addressing most definately does believe her guilt and if you look at any other threads and posts made by this member, you will see that they are most definately not a troll, but very well respected..and with genuine and intelligent views ....

I do take your point re this members previous posts arguing her guilt, but its the voracity of his posts that led me to wonder why he personally felt so strongly that she was guilty.When you look at all the evidence and familiarise yourself with the whole story ie botched/corrupt Police investigation, unusual court practices, I wondered why someone could still be so convinced of her guilt.

It was for that reason that I rightly or wrongly took the view that his posts had an element of "Devils advocate with a mild degree of trolling". Baiting posts are nothing new on these forums but most serious informed people even if they leaned towards her guilt would not be shouting from the rafters to start E-Petitions...completely ridiculous in my view.

[Ammi]

I do take your point re this members previous posts arguing her guilt, but its the voracity of his posts that led me to wonder why he personally felt so strongly that she was guilty.When you look at all the evidence and familiarise yourself with the whole story ie botched/corrupt Police investigation, unusual court practices, I wondered why someone could still be so convinced of her guilt.

It was for that reason that I rightly or wrongly took the view that his posts had an element of "Devils advocate with a mild degree of trolling". Baiting posts are nothing new on these forums but most serious informed people even if they leaned towards her guilt would not be shouting from the rafters to start E-Petitions...completely ridiculous in my view.



..I don't know obviously, but I think maybe he just feels very passionately that she's guilty and has from the beginning...for me it's irrelevant anyway because the law has found her innocent, therefore she is..I haven't really followed the case closely myself but I did watch a documentary which catalogued the botched up police investigations which were very many indeed....for me, the only important thing is that her family agree with the verdict and that they feel justice has been served over the loss of Meredith in such a dreadful way...

[Kizzy]

They don't they want a retrial...
''Italy's Supreme Court has overturned the acquittal of Knox and her Italian former boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito, who were originally sentenced to 26 and 25 years in prison for killing and sexually assaulting Miss Kercher in 2007.

The pair were acquitted on appeal in 2011 after four years in prison, but elder sister Stephanie Kercher said that she and her family were pleased at the court’s decision to overturn the acquittal.''

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9954098/Meredith-Kercher-family-welcomes-Amanda-Knox-retrial.html

[Shasown]

perfect post.

I don't see how anyone that has actually looked at all of the evidence could come to any other conclusion. How can there be thousands of fingerprints from Rudy Guede, but none from Amanda and Rafealle. I still haven't heard any of the Kercher family, or the prosecution, or people like Sticks explain how it's possible to only erase your own finger prints but leave someone else's behind.

How do you wipe surfaces and clean surfaces of your own finger prints, and leave the finger prints of someone else behind? it makes no sense.

Let me explain in simple terms then just so you understand. You might want to read it carefully through and consider it.

Life isnt really like "CSI anywhere".

Simply because no fingerprint evidence was presented does not mean "no fingerprint evidence" was found.

If the taking of a suspects fingerprints in any way flaunted rules/regulations/laws, the evidence of that persons fingerprints in the crime scene is not even allowed to be hinted at.

Same goes for DNA and all other forensic material.

Is there anything there you didnt understand?

Incidentally being in a small room for ten hours with the occassional slap(allegedly) is in no way to be compared to months, even years, of sensory deprivation, physical and mental abuse including waterboarding. Trust me on that, I know which one I would go for. So stop making silly comparisons.

[Marsh.]

Oh dear, what an awful flashback.

[lostalex]

..whether anyone personally believes Amanda Knox' innocence or not is irrelevant as for the moment she has been found innocent and so she is unless proven otherwise in a court of law...but if you look through this thread you will see that the member you're addressing most definately does believe her guilt and if you look at any other threads and posts made by this member, you will see that they are most definately not a troll, but very well respected..and with genuine and intelligent views ....


His views are not respected and most certainly NOT intelligent.

He hasn't responded intelligently to any of the points made to him about this case. Every time someone corrects him he has another outburst spewing tabloid BS. His views are as intelligent as Vanessa Feltz is slim.

[lostalex]

Let me explain in simple terms then just so you understand. You might want to read it carefully through and consider it.

Life isnt really like "CSI anywhere".

Simply because no fingerprint evidence was presented does not mean "no fingerprint evidence" was found.

If the taking of a suspects fingerprints in any way flaunted rules/regulations/laws, the evidence of that persons fingerprints in the crime scene is not even allowed to be hinted at.

Same goes for DNA and all other forensic material.

Is there anything there you didnt understand?


Incidentally being in a small room for ten hours with the occassional slap(allegedly) is in no way to be compared to months, even years, of sensory deprivation, physical and mental abuse including waterboarding. Trust me on that, I know which one I would go for. So stop making silly comparisons.


You didn't answer my question, you just made yourself look like a tit for being patronizing to me, and not even understanding the question to begin with.

explain how Amanda and Rafealle's finger prints were not in Meredith's room, but there were thousands of Rudy Guede's finger prints.

According to the prosecution, all three committed the crime together, so how is it that only 1 of the three left behind finger prints?

Do you understand the question now?


And wow, did you just justify torture? Yea, go ahead and abuse a young girl, who cares, she's American right? you are dispicable.

[Tom4784]

At the end of the day the evidence proved fallible enough to overturn her verdict, I don't see what's to gain from repeating the same song and dance over and over again. We'll never know if she's truly guilty or not because of the incredibly flawed investigation, it's a cold case now.

[Sticks]

At the end of the day the evidence proved fallible enough to overturn her verdict, .

No it wasn't

That is what the Italian Supreme court has said.

It has overturned the acquittals so therefore she and her boyfriend should be considered still guilty of first degree murder. Amanda Knox should be extradited and the pair of them should be locked to serve their sentences.

Why do people think because a guy is not white, he is guilty, but if it is a white women, she can not possibly be guilty?

Remember Amanda Knox is also convicted of lying through her teeth by accusing the manager of the bar where she worked and lying about being hit by police officers.

[lostalex]

No it wasn't

That is what the Italian Supreme court has said.

It has overturned the acquittals so therefore she and her boyfriend should be considered still guilty of first degree murder. Amanda Knox should be extradited and the pair of them should be locked to serve their sentences.

Why do people think because a guy is not white, he is guilty, but if it is a white women, she can not possibly be guilty?

Remember Amanda Knox is also convicted of lying through her teeth by accusing the manager of the bar where she worked and lying about being hit by police officers.


his race has nothing to do with it. They think he's guilty because there were thousands of fingerprints found, all belonging to him... he didn't know Meredith before this event, so why were his finger prints found all over her room and her body? Also He has a history of knife crime. He was also caught breaking in, and threatening a woman with a knife on a completely separate occasion. You think it's just a coincidence?

Rudy Guede is the killer. It's obvious. The only racism here is against Amanda for being American.

You claiming racism in this case is truly the boy crying wolf, and you disgrace all real racism victims in the world with these false claims of racism.

[Nedusa]

You have to wonder why the Italian authorities who had evidence and motive for the killer sought to weave a rather unlikely unconvincing and somewhat strange story involving Satanic ritual and sex and murder which drew the the other two including of course Amanda Knox. Was there some sought of Political motive involved ? Who knows but the relentless and misguided zeal that the Italian authorities employed to convince everyone that this was a planned conspiracy to murder a good friend does seem unusual.

Given where we are now serious questions have to be raised by the defence team in conjunction with the US authorities as to how a rather straight forward murder case evolved into a ridiculous unlikely horror film plot that has resulted in the lives of two innocent people being ruined.

The international criminal court must bring Italy to account over this fiasco

[Sticks]

No

Amanda and her former boyfriend should be rotting in prison for the murder of Meredith because she would not go along with their sordid little sex game, exactly as the prosecution said, as that is what the Italian supreme court has decided.

The scenario is utterly convincing because people do these things.

[billy123]

Lets hope that the extradition laws are equal to all that need to use them not just just the US that abuse them at every opportunity they get.

[lostalex]

Lets hope that the extradition laws are equal to all that need to use them not just just the US that abuse them at every opportunity they get.

You mean like when the US requested Gary Mckinnon to be extradited and he wasn't? The UK doesn't respect extradition laws, so why should the US?

[letmein]

Amanda is innocent. Stop getting your info from trashy tabloids. The prosecuter was a religious nut, who hated her because she was an unmarried girl having sex. She was basically being prosecuted by the Catholic Church, and the Pope. The person who did it was Rudy Guede. Anyone who hasn't put that together by now either hates her because the British media told them to, or they hate her because she's a white, American, female. Look at what the media put out about her today, it's all misogyny, calling her a slut. What was done to her is unbelievable. A complete nightmare. Italy is one messed up place. It's legal system has always been a debacle.

[letmein]

You have to wonder why the Italian authorities who had evidence and motive for the killer sought to weave a rather unlikely unconvincing and somewhat strange story involving Satanic ritual and sex and murder which drew the the other two including of course Amanda Knox.

Because the prosecutor was a conservative religious nutcase, a man who hates women. He was one step away from claiming demotic possession. They questioning her for days on end, to the point where she couldn't even think straight. They don't follow modern Western law. You need to keep that in mind. What they did with her would be illegal in Britain or the US.

[lostalex]

Amanda is innocent. Stop getting your info from trashy tabloids. The prosecuter was a religious nut, who hated her because she was an unmarried girl having sex. She was basically being prosecuted by the Catholic Church, and the Pope. The person who did it was Rudy Guede. Anyone who hasn't put that together by now either hates her because the British media told them to, or they hate her because she's a white, American, female. Look at what the media put out about her today, it's all misogyny, calling her a slut. What was done to her is unbelievable. A complete nightmare. Italy is one messed up place. It's legal system has always been a debacle.


where the hell have you been? welcome back.

[letmein]

The scenario is utterly convincing because people do these things.

:rolleyes:

[letmein]

where the hell have you been? welcome back.

:joker::xyxwave:

[Nedusa]

Amanda is innocent. Stop getting your info from trashy tabloids. The prosecuter was a religious nut, who hated her because she was an unmarried girl having sex. She was basically being prosecuted by the Catholic Church, and the Pope. The person who did it was Rudy Guede. Anyone who hasn't put that together by now either hates her because the British media told them to, or they hate her because she's a white, American, female. Look at what the media put out about her today, it's all misogyny, calling her a slut. What was done to her is unbelievable. A complete nightmare. Italy is one messed up place. It's legal system has always been a debacle.

Thanks for this info , I agree this whole story is hard to believe and in a European country to boot. I personally do not understand why there has not been more of an outcry over this whole sad affair, it's bad enough we have to stomach such an outrageous miscarriage of justice but to do so whilst reading the misguided and ridiculous ramblings of some members on this forum just makes matters even worse...!!!!

[Shaun]

Wow, found guilty again :/

[Samm]

It's been going on for so long I don't understand it anymore

[Sticks]

Basically Amanda Knox and her boyfriend murdered Meredith Kercher

We need to start a petition now to force Obama to extradite her now!

[Ammi]

..doesn't this just make a mockery of the courts..how can she be found not guilty of such a serious crime and then be found guilty...surely that in itself casts enough doubt on it for her to be legally not guilty...

[Nedusa]

Under Italian law you have to be found guilty 3 times before you are actually guilty, but if you are found not guilty then this may rise to 5 times...!!!

What a complete joke .... Makes a mockery of justice

Hopefully the US authorities will tell the Italians exactly what they can do with any extradition request...

[Z]

I'll be interested to see if the USA gives her up to the Italians or not.

[Sticks]

If they have a shred of respect for justice they should

[Nedusa]

The US constitution protects Amanda Knox from being extradited. Specifically, the 5th Amendment "...nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb". Knox was acquitted in her retrial; therefore, by US law, she cannot be retried again for the same crime; else it is double jeopardy and a violation of the US constitution.

[Jesus.]

No woman that hot should ever be locked up.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Film/Pix/pictures/2013/5/3/1367581168909/Amanda-Knox-arrives-at-he-010.jpg

NOT GUILTY.

[MTVN]

She's ruined her looks with her short hair now, looks like a grandma

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/01/30/article-2548823-1B0F45BD00000578-91_296x225.jpg

[Niamh.]

She's ruined her looks with her short hair now, looks like a grandma

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/01/30/article-2548823-1B0F45BD00000578-91_296x225.jpg

Send her back then :fist:

[Jesus.]

Oh god, yeah. GUILTY.

[Niamh.]

:laugh:

[Sticks]

Double jeopardy does not apply as the acquittals were made none and void. This was thankfully, an unsuccessful appeal against the original convictions

Ship that murderer back now!!!

[Tom4784]

If they have a shred of respect for justice they should

Italy obviously doesn't given how they're abusing their own Judical system to get the result they want. They did a piss poor job or trying to convict her and they need to face up to the consequences of their incompetence.

[BBfanUSA]

Italy obviously doesn't given how they're abusing their own Judical system to get the result they want. They did a piss poor job or trying to convict her and they need to face up to the consequences of their incompetence.

This I think they convicted her since she was there

[Nedusa]

Double jeopardy does not apply as the acquittals were made none and void. This was thankfully, an unsuccessful appeal against the original convictions

Ship that murderer back now!!!

I agree double jeopardy may not apply here as technically it is just a continuation of the first prosecution . However the absence of a jury and the fact this case has now had 3 verdicts does rather make a mockery of Italian justice and does give grounds for the US authorities to make a judicial decision not to extradite her on the grounds she cannot receive a fair trial.

[Jesus.]

Double jeopardy is irrelevant in this case for a more obvious reason - it's not an American case, so isn't bound by American law, nor protected by the constitution.

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/01/31/article-2549284-1B1A1E2500000578-689_634x454.jpg
[First interview: Amanda Knox became emotional
as she appeared in her first live interview
on Good Morning America since her shock
guilty verdict was announced on Thursday.
She said she will fight the verdict ]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2549284/Sister-murdered-British-student-Meredith-Kercher-admits-family-never-know-happened-night-Knox-Sollecito-guilty-verdicts-reinstated.html#ixzz2rzkpgmeV

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/01/31/article-2549284-1B1A01F700000578-238_634x487.jpg
Is she a Killer?

[Z]

I can't believe this happened in 2007, been so drawn out

[arista]

I'll be interested to see if the USA gives her up to the Italians or not.


They have to
in the end.



Unless she goes on the run in Mexico

[arista]

I can't believe this happened in 2007, been so drawn out


Have you Seen the Corruption in
Italy ?

[Z]

Have you Seen the Corruption in
Italy ?

It's such a shambles. Italy's surely one of the poorest functioning Western states if not the worst.

[arista]

It's such a shambles. Italy's surely one of the poorest functioning Western states if not the worst.


What do you Expect they were Pro Hitler

[Jesus.]

What do you Expect they were Pro Hitler

Who wouldn't support this loveable scamp?

http://ver-o-peso.com/default/images/site/interessante/hitler_um_hum/hitler_shorts_02.jpg

[Z]

What do you Expect they were Pro Hitler

So was Germany but that hasn't stopped it from becoming Europe's leading economic power or being a key member in all European institutions. Italy's a poorly functioning mafia state in the south; I'm surprised it hasn't split up into different countries yet.

[Sticks]

What do you Expect they were Pro Hitler


And Godwin's law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law) prevails :bored: