Syria - over 200 rebals have left Homs

[arista]

Reported on all news
and a undercover reporter yesterday on ch4.



Do Not Protest at All
you will be killed if you do.
Avoid Trouble
Stay Alive in Syria.



Sign Of The Times

[Smithy]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmhvjzZoOB1qfuzq7.jpg

[Shaun]

**** you arista, i've already made 3 banners for this.

[arista]

**** you arista, i've already made 3 banners for this.


Then those Peoples are sent to Death.



Do Not Protest in Syria
Stay Alive.


The World is Not Under One Control


Life In The Fast Lane.

[arista]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10257208/US-will-not-intervene-in-Syria-as-rebels-dont-support-interests-says-top-general.html

Red line Crossed - President Of USA - what will he do?


http://news.sky.com/story/1131320/syrian-rebels-1300-killed-in-gas-attack

[Nedusa]

Clearly this was timed to coincide with UN inspectors investigating the last so called chemical attack. Clearly this was a carefully timed plan to try and blame on the Assad regime. But we don't believe a word of it and Russia is carrying out its own investigation into this. Angry that the western powers will do anything to destabilise the Assad govt.

Fact is the rebels cannot win this as Russia is supporting Assad and to be honest it's all over for the rebels.

The last throw of the dice for a failed and discredited opposition.

Arab Spring ....???? Do me a favour ....!!!!

[Nedusa]

Clearly this was timed to coincide with UN inspectors investigating the last so called chemical attack. Clearly this was a carefully timed plan to try and blame on the Assad regime. But we don't believe a word of it and Russia is carrying out its own investigation into this. Angry that the western powers will do anything to destabilise the Assad govt.

Fact is the rebels cannot win this as Russia is supporting Assad and to be honest it's all over for the rebels.

The last throw of the dice for a failed and discredited opposition.

Arab Spring ....???? Do me a favour ....!!!!

[Nemo123]

I agree Nedusa. There are greater geopolitical forces at work. I think Russia's position now is a kind of compromise. I think they'll accept Assad's head, but they want whoever replaces him to be on their side. Syria is Russia's last hold on the middle East, and the west is doing their best to unstable Russia.

[Roy Mars III]

Clearly this was timed to coincide with UN inspectors investigating the last so called chemical attack. Clearly this was a carefully timed plan to try and blame on the Assad regime. But we don't believe a word of it and Russia is carrying out its own investigation into this. Angry that the western powers will do anything to destabilise the Assad govt.

Fact is the rebels cannot win this as Russia is supporting Assad and to be honest it's all over for the rebels.

The last throw of the dice for a failed and discredited opposition.

Arab Spring ....???? Do me a favour ....!!!!

I agree Nedusa. There are greater geopolitical forces at work. I think Russia's position now is a kind of compromise. I think they'll accept Assad's head, but they want whoever replaces him to be on their side. Syria is Russia's last hold on the middle East, and the west is doing their best to unstable Russia.

Yea agree with bith of you

[Z]

Wouldn't be surprised if the US starts trying to cause trouble in Armenia so it's got a monopoly on the Caspian Sea oil industry. US/Russia conflicts of interest are on so many different levels in so many different territories...

[Nedusa]

People should not be so quick to jump on the "Assad uses Chemical weapons against his own people" bandwagon. There are many inconsistancies with the story currently being touted in the western media and press.

Why did this happen as UN weapons Inspectors happened to be in Syria to investigate the previous suspected use of Chemical weapons. I think the timing is very suspicious to say the least.

Why on earth would Assad use these weapons on his own people when he is clearly winning the conflict in Syria in any case...it makes no sense

But the most importantly evidence that this was the work of the FSA is that the Chemical agents that Assad has like Mustard Gas,VX & Sarin are known as "persistant agents" and have clearly visible symptoms like convulsions and discoluring of the skin. All news footage of the victims of this attack show symptoms that are inconsistant with the use of the type of weapons Assad has.

And probably most importantly of all the VX gas and Sarin gas would persist on the victims clothes and hair BUT we have clearly seen victims in the aftermath of this attack being treated by Doctors and Emergency workers who are not wearing any Chemical protection suits. if these agents were indeed Sarin of VX nerve gas then the people helping these victims would also be dead and that is not the case.

It is now thought by experts looking at the footage that the symptoms shown as probably caused by Industrial chemicals and poisons and NOT actual Chemical warfare weapons.

So ....is this a crude attempt to again try and blame Assad for an atrocity he did not commit to get the World's attention and possibly force Obama to react by allowing more weapons to the Rebels or even threatening new Military action against Assad. ?

But a final thought....somebody decided to launch these weapons into residential areas in Damacus and murder Men, Women and Children and that is truly Shocking & Unforgiveable....

[arista]

Yes is the story fake
as no outside people can get near it
due to Snipers?



As for Red Lines
that was stupid of the President.

[Nedusa]

The more I look at this story the more I start to think this is the last desperate attempt by the Syrian rebels to try and create a situation where they gain in terms of weapons and possibly more help from the western powers.

My real concern in all of this is that these people the so called free Syrian army are so consumed by anger and hatred for Assad and so determined to do whatever it takes to overthrow him , that they could consciously decide to exterminate hundreds if not thousands of innocent people to achieve that aim...

What sort of people are we dealing with the mind boggles ...!!!

These people these cold blooded murderers are going to become the next Govt of Syria

I swear to God you couldn't make this up....!!!!!!!

[arista]

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/8/22/1377208940457/230813-Ben-Jennings-Syria-002.jpg

[Nemo123]

Clearly this was timed to coincide with UN inspectors investigating the last so called chemical attack. Clearly this was a carefully timed plan to try and blame on the Assad regime. But we don't believe a word of it and Russia is carrying out its own investigation into this. Angry that the western powers will do anything to destabilise the Assad govt.

Fact is the rebels cannot win this as Russia is supporting Assad and to be honest it's all over for the rebels.

The last throw of the dice for a failed and discredited opposition.

Arab Spring ....???? Do me a favour ....!!!!

+1 Nedusa.

Tonight's news carries William Hague's attempt to blame this on Assad. How stupid would it be for Assad to launch a chemical attack on his enemies at the same time a UN inspectorate arrived in Syria?
I cannot abide William Hague! He has been pushing for all out war for 2 years. What has Assad's "regime" done that was so terrible recently? It has been in power without issue for about the last 20 years.

[Nemo123]

There are 2 countries which haven't yet fallen under American Hegemony: Syria and Iran. They are lined up in that order to be conquered. Syria is Russia's last ally in the Middle East, and I doubt they'll let it go easily. Russia was irate over the overthrow of Gadaffi.
Before I say any more, I want to inform people who didn't know that Iraqis and Libyans enjoyed wonderful health care and guaranteed minimum incomes. They weren't bad at all or evil, they were benign, albeit totalitarian. Irish nurses, for example, use to go to work in state of the art hospitals in Iraq, for better money they could get in Ireland or Britain. People who demonise Gadaffi or Hussein paper over the welfare system they brought to their countries.

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/8/25/255536/default/v1/theipaper-1-329x437.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/8/25/255531/default/v1/mail-1-329x437.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/8/25/255527/default/v1/telegraph-1-329x437.jpg


WW3 on the way

[Nemo123]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/8/25/255536/default/v1/theipaper-1-329x437.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/8/25/255531/default/v1/mail-1-329x437.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/8/25/255527/default/v1/telegraph-1-329x437.jpg


WW3 on the way

I despair. WW3 is indeed on its way.

I hope people who are educated enough will resist.

[Nemo123]

Conspiracy theorists are mocked. Indeed, the term "conspiracy theorist" has become a pejorative term. Dismissed as outlandish and ridiculous. But, to deny conspiracy theories, is to deny conspiracies. Conspiracies can't take place because conspiracies are ridiculous. But they do exist, obviously. The 15 hijackers who flew planes into the twin towers and the Pentagon, conspired to do that, (if you believe that particular conspiracy theory). There's another conspiracy theory which says the twin towers were attacked by manless remote-control drones. Yet the one where 15 Saudi Arabians did it reached the news' stands first, quicker than the twin towers fell. You have to ask yourself who put out that particular version of events. All the mainstream media picked i up and suddenly that particular conspiracy theory became the unquestioned truth.

[Nemo123]

You also have to question why Osama Bin Laden was blamed within hours or days, when he consistently denied having anything to do with it.

[Nemo123]

The 911 Commission report never deviated from the presumption that 15 Saudis flew 4 hijacked planes into the WTC, The Pentagon, and a field somewhere. That presumption was their starting point, and they made their findings fit into that hypothesis. They should have started with an open mind, but instead their conclusions were their starting point, and they had to make the facts fit into them. It's very reminiscent of the Warren Commission over JFK's assassination for anyone who is familiar with that. They too started out with a conclusion, that Oswald had killed JFK, and make the facts fit their conclusion.

[Nedusa]

I think Obama will refrain from starting any non UN authorised military action in Syria as the possible unforseen consequences could ignite the whole of the middle East and the effect on the already somewhat shaky markets could make the crash of 2008 look like a walk in the park.

The fragile US economy is in my opinion unable to sustain funding for another war this time on a larger scale coupled with the negative effects on the markets

Also the fallout from this with relations with Russia and China could also be extremely worrying.

No I think Obama may deliver angry press soundbites but will wait until all UN inspections have finished before going back to the UN for any further resolutions.

No stomach for a fight especially one which has the potential to develop into a Global Conflict.....IMHO !!!!!!

[Nedusa]

I am puzzled why David Cameron is still talking about unilateral Military action against Syria when the US agrees with Russia to allow weapons Inspectors time to investigate the attacks before reporting back to the UN.

Seems the UK is chomping at the bit again to start another doomed Military adventure.

[arista]

Syria, Russia , China and Iran Vs USA and UK

What does the west want outright murder
and destruction with a End Result of more War?

[arista]

UK Gov to meet on Weds
to talk about options.


Looks like we may support, back up
USA attacks yet again

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/8/26/255643/default/v1/260813-syria-region-map-1-268x201.jpg

[Nedusa]

UK Gov to meet on Weds
to talk about options.


Looks like we may support, back up
USA attacks yet again

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/8/26/255643/default/v1/260813-syria-region-map-1-268x201.jpg

I don't think we will be backing up US attacks this time, no I think this time the UK will take unilateral action and fire off a few cruise missiles, they can only use cruise missiles of course as any military aircraft tracked in Syrian airspace will surely be shot down.

So a few cruise missiles and then onto the House of Commons bar for a few whiskeys and a few slaps on the back then home to jump the missus...

A day in the life of a complete knobhead who think he has put one over on Syria, the mans a fool , an idiot who should hope Syria with Russia's help don't decide to retaliate... If they do then God help us all...!!!!

[arista]

"Syria with Russia's help don't decide to retaliate.."


They should
if Attacked - thats normal.
Sink a USA Ship would be fair

[MTVN]

It's really frustrating how the West are just going to bypass the UN again and get involved in a conflict which they will only exacerbate. I just don't see why they are in such a rush and have clearly already decided everything without waiting for the reports of the inspectors, Assad may have carried out the attack but it would be so illogical for him to do so that there needs to be far more concrete proof than there is atm

[arista]

It's really frustrating how the West are just going to bypass the UN again and get involved in a conflict which they will only exacerbate. I just don't see why they are in such a rush and have clearly already decided everything without waiting for the reports of the inspectors, Assad may have carried out the attack but it would be so illogical for him to do so that there needs to be far more concrete proof than there is atm


Yes its wrong


I want Syria to Sink a USA Ship that fires on them,
using hi tech Russian Planes

[Livia]

Yes its wrong


I want Syria to Sink a USA Ship that fires on them,using hi tech Russian Planes

Jesus...

I hope our troops and US troops don't get involved in Syria. Let them sort it out themselves, and if they die in their droves, so be it. At least we won't have to listen to people bleat on about how many people our troops have killed, and like Arista's post, wish allied troops dead.

[Nedusa]

Jesus...

I hope our troops and US troops don't get involved in Syria. Let them sort it out themselves, and if they die in their droves, so be it. At least we won't have to listen to people bleat on about how many people our troops have killed, and like Arista's post, wish allied troops dead.

I agree, as much as I shudder at the thought of the western powers getting involved, and as angry as I would be with our politicians for taking us into another war, I would not want to see any of our Troops hurt as they have no choice where and when they go. They put their lives on the line regardless of the political circumstances surrounding the legitimacy of the conflict. They are always there ready to defend the people of the UK and for that we should be eternally grateful.......!!!!

[MTVN]

Quite a good piece on the whole thing here: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100232698/syria-why-would-assad-invite-a-western-intervention-by-using-wmds-in-a-war-he-was-winning/

Second, why would the Assad regime do something so stupid? It must know that by using chemical weapons it would isolate itself from any international support and invite a Western military response. More importantly, Assad was already winning the war – so why bother to use WMDs during the last lap to victory? Indeed, the only people who have anything to gain by Assad using chemicals are the rebels, because that would internationalise the conflict in a way that they have long lobbied for.


This is my main problem and I'm still yet to hear a good answer from anyone for it

[arista]

David Cameron recalls parliament over Syria crisis on Thursday


http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/aug/27/david-cameron-recalls-parliament-syria


with a vote until 10PM
soon


Russia has said the West are like a monkey with a grenade


USA AirForce ready to attack - Once the President OK's it


Ref: SkyNewsHD and RT.

[billy123]

Iran are starting to make threatening statements warning the US that if they stage any kind of military intervention that conflict would soon engulf the entire region.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/26/syria-us-un-inspection-kerry


But i think Iran is their ultimate goal anyway. Syria is just a handy stepping stone along the way.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/933988_478790908886204_1226679229_n.jpg

[arista]

"But i think Iran is their ultimate goal anyway. Syria is just a handy stepping stone along the way."

That Would be Evil
back door route to kill Iran
bloody American Army

[Nedusa]

Folks as far as a limited Cruise missile strike is concerned then Yes I think we had all better brace for this as it will happen probably on Friday...

To be fair it can't really not happen, the US has backed itself into a corner with Obama's red line comments.

To NOT act would send out a dangerous signal to countries like Russia,Iran, China and North Korea that the US makes empty threats, threats backed up by nothing but more words.

So yes some form of Military Action is now definite....!!!

Fingers crossed everyone ....!!!!!

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/8/27/255890/default/v1/guardian-1-329x437.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/8/27/255893/default/v2/mirror-1-329x437.jpg

[GypsyGoth]

This all sounds pretty syria-ous.

[joeysteele]

I really think the UK should be kept firmly out of this situation. I would not support myself any moves for the UK to be involved in any way.

Of course I have sympathy for those suffering in Syria but I am sorry,in my opinion, no way should we be be even considering involving ourselves in this never mind actually doing so.

[arista]

"From billionaire's yacht Blair urges Syria attack,
but...This war monger is the very last man we should listen to"

Bloody Right DM

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2403499/From-billionaires-yacht-Blair-urges-Syria-attack--This-war-monger-man-listen-to.html#ixzz2dFPRGX00


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/27/article-2403499-1B748026000005DC-655_312x524.jpg
Blair watching his back

[arista]

I really think the UK should be kept firmly out of this situation. I would not support myself any moves for the UK to be involved in any way.

Of course I have sympathy for those suffering in Syria but I am sorry,in my opinion, no way should we be be even considering involving ourselves in this never mind actually doing so.



Labour United with Conserv-LibDem views



Pathetic.

[Z]

The UK, USA, France and Germany will undoubtedly wade in once again.

[Livia]

We've lost enough servicemen in futile wars. Haven't we learned anything from the past? If Cameron takes us to war it was be the biggest mistake he's made so far, in a long line of big mistakes. They're cutting our Army down to the bone, they're getting rid of historic regiments, they're relying more and more on the TA... and now they want to take us into a yet another war we can't win. If the USA so desperately want to go in, they should go in alone.

[arista]

The UN people are due to Leave
on Sunday.

Which gives Syria days to clear its people & weapons away
from the places they are due to attack.

SkyNewsHD has reported
that many of those hit zones have been evacuated

[Nedusa]

The attack will probably take place on tue/wed next week as there will be no Moonlight (time of New Moon) in those few days.......

[Nedusa]

Unless of course they decide to attack under the cover of Daylight......but the Networks prefer night attacks as it looks better and increases viewing figures.......!!!!

[joeysteele]

Labour United with Conserv-LibDem views



Pathetic.

They never learn or listen,sadly.

[billy123]

Charles Veitch with an open message to the US/British military.
tZPy_r0Mi3g

[smudgie]

We've lost enough servicemen in futile wars. Haven't we learned anything from the past? If Cameron takes us to war it was be the biggest mistake he's made so far, in a long line of big mistakes. They're cutting our Army down to the bone, they're getting rid of historic regiments, they're relying more and more on the TA... and now they want to take us into a yet another war we can't win. If the USA so desperately want to go in, they should go in alone.

Indeed. Do we even know for sure which side used the chemical weapons?

[Tozzie]

The UK, USA, France and Germany will undoubtedly wade in once again.

did Germany say they are staying out of it? I could be wrong though. I wish the UK would keep out of it, I doubt the majority of the general public want them to go in but the government don't bother to listen to us nobodies.

[BBfanUSA]

I think Islamist Extremists are doing this to lure the world into a trap or Rebels are to drag in the US. I mean I think it's a bit odd that this is brought up this late into the war. Why would Assad do this when he's overwhelmingly winning? All he would be doing with Chemical Weapons is adding fuel to the rebel's fire

Also Russia's moved warships into the Mediterranean sea

[arista]

I think Islamist Extremists are doing this to lure the world into a trap or Rebels are to drag in the US. I mean I think it's a bit odd that this is brought up this late into the war. Why would Assad do this when he's overwhelmingly winning? All he would be doing with Chemical Weapons is adding fuel to the rebel's fire

Also Russia's moved warships into the Mediterranean sea


Yes it will look dumb if later we find out
it was Rebals trapping USA in this fight.


And the Russia warship should be there
as they have much Military gear in Syria.


The President gave a interview on USA PBS newshour,
he seems to be slowing down on his action.
Of course, he can change his mind at any moment
and go down in History like GW Bush.

[arista]

Brits say no to war in Syria

[BRITS are against missile strikes on Syria
by a big majority of two to one,
the first poll on the new crisis has found.
An exclusive YouGov survey for The Sun has revealed
there is still strong opposition to all types of UK involvement
in the bitter two year long civil war despite
last week's chemical weapons atrocity.]

[Nemo123]

Let me say, I'm delighted with 90% of the replies to the question. It gives me hope for the future.

[Nemo123]

I saw something very interesting on the net. It was a recording of Bradley Manning's testimony. He went to his superiors to report an abuse in the electoral system. HIS army was identifying political opponents to the Iraqi police. These legitimate opponents were subsequently arrested, tortured, and killed. He was told to shut up and ignore it. The Irqias who were extra-judiciously killed were just political opponents, not terrorists. Yet Bradley was told to shut up.

[Nemo123]

There is a hidden of Badley Manning's testimony on the net. I could look for it, but I heard it only yesterday. It's pretty conclusive in what it says.
I'll summarise. The US secret service identified political opponents to the government, and passed their name on to the Iraqi govt., who the arrested them, jailed them and probably tortured them They were just political opponents in a "New" Iraq.

[Nemo123]

I think Obama will refrain from starting any non UN authorised military action in Syria as the possible unforseen consequences could ignite the whole of the middle East and the effect on the already somewhat shaky markets could make the crash of 2008 look like a walk in the park.

The fragile US economy is in my opinion unable to sustain funding for another war this time on a larger scale coupled with the negative effects on the markets

Also the fallout from this with relations with Russia and China could also be extremely worrying.

No I think Obama may deliver angry press soundbites but will wait until all UN inspections have finished before going back to the UN for any further resolutions.

No stomach for a fight especially one which has the potential to develop into a Global Conflict.....IMHO !!!!!!

__________________________________________________ ___________________

[arista]

In Parliament

No 285
Yes 272
Maj 13



They voted No to the War.

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/8/29/256332/default/v1/indy-front-1-329x437.jpg

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/29/article-2405633-1B850E23000005DC-969_634x411.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/29/article-2405633-1B857C77000005DC-888_634x408.jpg


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/29/article-2405633-1B84E277000005DC-591_634x400.jpg

[Nemo123]

Is America the real enemy of the world, just as the Nazis were in the 1930's?

[joeysteele]

Really glad this all took place today and with the results of the votes too, it has ended up a good time for democracy and in particular the UK Parliament too.

[arista]

Really glad this all took place today and with the results of the votes too, it has ended up a good time for democracy and in particular the UK Parliament too.


http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/8/29/256342/default/v2/cameron-composite-1-626x352.jpg


Yes we do not want a Another War


America can go in Alone

[Nedusa]

Really sad to hear Paddy Ashdown (former Lib Dem leader) say he felt saddened that the UK had voted not to start a War with Syria, he felt sorry that our Armed forces were not going to fire off dozens of Cruise Missiles which would almost certainly have caused more deaths of innocent Syrians, he felt sad that the UK was not going to eventually commit more of our young Soldiers/Seamen/Airmen to early graves.

Are these the words of a sensible well informed Political thinker or the rantings of a rather sad deluded, washed up, ex-politician............You decide !!!!!

[BBfanUSA]

I'm watching the news over here. I'm shocked the president has opted not to do it. Because if he does the senate will be a republican majority by 2014, and have a republican (Hopefully a financial one, not a go by the bible one) in the white house by 2016. There was some Democratic Representative from NY telling CNN and the NBC Today show that he would vote yes to declare war on Syria.

Also there's video evidence of a Napalm attack.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-23892594

[Josy]

There isn't enough evidence of who done it though ^^^

I'm glad the UK voted no but Cameron said he will keep calling for a robust response, despite losing the vote last night.

[Tom4784]

I'm glad we aren't taking military action, it would be the wrong thing to do especially since it hasn't been proven that Assad is responsible for the chemical attacks. We can do more for Syria by not turning it into even more of a war zone.

[Josy]

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/69560000/jpg/_69560537_front-page-8-30-2013.jpg

[arista]

I'm watching the news over here. I'm shocked the president has opted not to do it. Because if he does the senate will be a republican majority by 2014, and have a republican (Hopefully a financial one, not a go by the bible one) in the white house by 2016. There was some Democratic Representative from NY telling CNN and the NBC Today show that he would vote yes to declare war on Syria.

Also there's video evidence of a Napalm attack.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-23892594



The US President is still going for attack
but not fast

[arista]

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/69560000/jpg/_69560537_front-page-8-30-2013.jpg




Yes a Great Front Page


Shown on ITVNewsHD

[arista]

I'm glad we aren't taking military action, it would be the wrong thing to do especially since it hasn't been proven that Assad is responsible for the chemical attacks. We can do more for Syria by not turning it into even more of a war zone.


Yes thats the Americans job

[BBfanUSA]

I meant hasn't opted to do it Sorry

[joeysteele]

Really sad to hear Paddy Ashdown (former Lib Dem leader) say he felt saddened that the UK had voted not to start a War with Syria, he felt sorry that our Armed forces were not going to fire off dozens of Cruise Missiles which would almost certainly have caused more deaths of innocent Syrians, he felt sad that the UK was not going to eventually commit more of our young Soldiers/Seamen/Airmen to early graves.

Are these the words of a sensible well informed Political thinker or the rantings of a rather sad deluded, washed up, ex-politician............You decide !!!!!

The latter for me Nedusa.

[arista]

I meant hasn't opted to do it Sorry


Yes he has to Fit it in this Weekend
as he goes off to meet Putin and other leaders soon.

"Last time any British PM was defeated
over issue of war and peace was in 1782"

Germany has confirmed they are not going into this attack.

The French are with America - so long as they get all the UN data first.

[arista]

The USA President has confirmed he will attack.


On all News media

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/8/30/256489/default/v1/independent-1-329x437.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/8/30/256490/default/v1/i-1-329x437.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/8/30/256493/default/v1/guardian-1-329x437.jpg

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/8/30/256494/default/v1/times-1-329x437.jpg

[Nemo123]

Arista, the dual standards make me sick. Earlier this year there was a chemical weapons attack by the rebels, yet not a dickie bird on the news. The British media, to my mind have always be the fairest in the world. Now I can longer bear to watch them. The have become tools of the establishment the world over.

[Novo]

XIKHF6VQ0IY

Go on Vlad :worship:

[Josy]

They did present what they say is evidence, anyone can read it it's even on the BBC website :suspect:

I'm not saying it's actual evidence btw just what they are passing off as being enough proof.

[Nedusa]

Not good enough to use as a pretext to start more murder and mayhem. No lets see real hard incontrovertible evidence that links the Assad govt to the use of these weapons.

Why the rush to War (again) ??

[arista]

Not good enough to use as a pretext to start more murder and mayhem. No lets see real hard incontrovertible evidence that links the Assad govt to the use of these weapons.

Why the rush to War (again) ??


In 5 days the President is Due to go the G20 in Russia
so he may try to fit it in before or after?

http://www.g20.org/docs/summit/summit_2013.html

[BBfanUSA]

President Obama is speaking right now. He's really trying to justify attacking Syria right now.

There's going to be a congressional vote on whether or not we should attack Syria.

[Tom4784]

I hope Congress votes against it, going to war would be senseless.

[Nedusa]

Poor President Obama I almost feel sorry for him, he really does not want to get involved in any of this nasty War stuff. He is a peace president and a Nobel Peace Laureate he doesn't want his name linked to warmongering . Dam that red line comment, please someone help me find a diplomatic way out of this mess...!!!

[Nemo123]

Thanks to the coalition govt Britain won't getting involvrd,

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/31/article-2407974-1B8E4E72000005DC-955_306x478.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/31/article-2407974-1B8E4E7F000005DC-472_306x478.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/31/article-2407974-1B8E4E8B000005DC-730_634x509.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/31/article-2407974-1B8DBEEC000005DC-527_634x737.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/08/31/article-2407974-1B8DBDD4000005DC-293_634x415.jpg

[arista]

I hope Congress votes against it, going to war would be senseless.


The may do.


But that Will Not Stop America
Attacking Syria.


Not the same politics as us.

[Nedusa]

I think President Obama is playing for time by referring it to Congress he has a another 9 days to wait, perhaps Congress will vote no, either way its another week for Assad to move or hide all his valuable military assets out of harms way.

I think the idea of a surprise attack is well and truly over ..!!

[arista]

I think President Obama is playing for time by referring it to Congress he has a another 9 days to wait, perhaps Congress will vote no, either way its another week for Assad to move or hide all his valuable military assets out of harms way.

I think the idea of a surprise attack is well and truly over ..!!


Yes could be.


Also how many innocent people will Barack Murder?

[Nedusa]

I'm reading that the US Congress is by no means convinced of military action in Syria. It could be that Obama knows this and has already hedged his bets that the US Congress will reject the motion to support Military action.

This could have been Obama's strategy all along.

Could be now this is not going to happen anytime soon...!!!

[Z]

I don't really know how I feel about this. I believe the USA and France are making a mistake, trying to get involved in the Syrian situation; but the Syrian people do need help regardless of who perpetrated what in the territory.

[arista]

Syria: Obama Makes New Military Action Vow

[The US has a plan to help Syria's rebels
bring down the Assad regime
after launching military strikes,
President Obama has said.
Mr Obama said again that military action against
Syria would be "limited" but suggested a strike
would go further than simply punishing
President Bashar al Assad's alleged use
of chemical weapons.
The president said he was confident that
Congress would vote in favour of military
action and called for a prompt vote on the issue.
During a meeting of congressional leaders at the
White House, he said: "What we are envisioning
is something limited. It is something proportional.
It will degrade Assad's capabilities.
"At the same time we have a broader
strategy that will allow us to upgrade
the capabilities of the opposition."]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/9/3/257099/default/v1/030913-syria-israel-map-1-522x293.jpg

http://news.sky.com/story/1136626/syria-obama-makes-new-military-action-vow


What about the Genral Public
who are Not Fighting
how many with America Murder

[Josy]

:bored:

[Nedusa]

Let us all be in no doubt if Assad is attacked for using Chemical weapons even if he didn't , then he will decide he can use Chem Weapons now and as such I think he will hit the FSA hard with real Chemical Weapons. He will use the cover of air strikes to carry out this policy as it will help him rid Syria of his enemies inside and out.

Also if detected by the outside world ( which is almost certain) he will blame it on the US having targeted and hit a Chemical weapons storage bunker.

He has already moved all his real military assets to secure hidden locations so he might as well use the Air strikes as cover to continue waging his own internal war .

Get ready for things to become really messy with many possible casualties !!!!

[Ninastar]

I don't really know how I feel about this. I believe the USA and France are making a mistake, trying to get involved in the Syrian situation; but the Syrian people do need help regardless of who perpetrated what in the territory.

but they are making threats... I would agree, if it had nothing to do with the US or france, i'd think there was no reason for us to be involved. But when threats are being made and these terrorists are killing 100's of their own people... it's a terrifying thought.

[Josy]

but they are making threats... I would agree, if it had nothing to do with the US or france, i'd think there was no reason for us to be involved. But when threats are being made and these terrorists are killing 100's of their own people... it's a terrifying thought.

How many people from the general public do you think are going to be killed or badly injured if these strikes go ahead though?

Not to mention the fact that if they do go ahead and attack there is a very high probability of more chemical weapons attacks too.

[Josy]

The US has a plan to help Syria's rebels bring down the Assad regime


That sentence just doesn't sound right to me at all either...

[Josy]

The Senate Hearing is happening atm if anyone is interested..

http://www.livestation.com/reuters?source=redirect

[Nemo123]

Youtube is still a bastion of free speech and if you want to study the situation it's out there. I have only a broadbrush understanding, based on something George Walker Bush said: "If you're not with us you're agin us".
There are a lot of goldbugs out there, notably Max Keiser. I think he makes a mistake by overplaying the significance of gold and silver, and largely ignoring oil. The currency of the world is the oil-dollar. The promise to pay the bearer one dollar's worth in oil. This is why the USA wants to utterly dominate the middle east and has done so for the past 80 years or so.

[Nemo123]

The Senate Hearing is happening atm if anyone is interested..

http://www.livestation.com/reuters?source=redirect

There was a time, like in Britain, when you could distinguish one side from the other. Now they are all corporate mouthpieces, motivated by profit only.

[Nedusa]

I'm hearing on the news now that John Kerry is saying Assad fired the Chemical weapons from regime territory into rebel held territory. He is saying there is conclusive proof from the intelligence community.

So maybe he did, but why oh why would be do it ??

Can't get my head round the fact that he would be shooting himself in the foot in every way and by murdering so many innocent people he would be effectively signing his own death warrant.

I'm still not 100% convinced.... Just a small nagging doubt in my mind...!!!

[Nemo123]

I'm hearing on the news now that John Kerry is saying Assad fired the Chemical weapons from regime territory into rebel held territory. He is saying there is conclusive proof from the intelligence community.

So maybe he did, but why oh why would be do it ??

Can't get my head round the fact that he would be shooting himself in the foot in every way and by murdering so many innocent people he would be effectively signing his own death warrant.

I'm still not 100% convinced.... Just a small nagging doubt in my mind...!!!

"Just a small nagging doubt?"

I've a huge whopping doubt. Why won't they wait for the UN to determine where those chemical weapons came from???

[Nemo123]

The coalition of the willing wouldn't wait for Hans Blix to do his job in 2003. Same old same old!

[Josy]

Woman just got launched out for protesting

[Nedusa]

"Just a small nagging doubt?"

I've a huge whopping doubt. Why won't they wait for the UN to determine where those chemical weapons came from???

I agree they should wait for 100 % proof from UN but having just listened to John Kerry he is saying Publicly probably under oath that the US Has that proof so the UN cannot add or change anything... It's 100% done deal

So if you have whopping doubts you are effectively saying one of the most respected US politicians probably under oath is LYING...!!!!

That's a serious charge.... Or perhaps someone is lying to him, but now we are getting into dangerous territory ie secret Govt etc...

So tbh I'm not happy about Air strikes on Syria but it does look like Assad has brought this on himself....!!!

[Nemo123]

I am not at all happy that the US cannot wait for the findings of the UN, and show them to the world. Kerry hasn't done anything bad afaik, except for his dodgy Vietnam record, or is dubious a better word? Why can't the world wait? Isn't this what happened in 2003, when the "coalition of the willing" effectively kicked the UN ou before they'd done their job, before they had exposed the WoMD as a huge lie sold to the UN by other venerable US politicians, GW Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, the list of liars goes on and on.

[Nemo123]

I agree they should wait for 100 % proof from UN but having just listened to John Kerry he is saying Publicly probably under oath that the US Has that proof so the UN cannot add or change anything... It's 100% done deal

So if you have whopping doubts you are effectively saying one of the most respected US politicians probably under oath is LYING...!!!!

That's a serious charge.... Or perhaps someone is lying to him, but now we are getting into dangerous territory ie secret Govt etc...

So tbh I'm not happy about Air strikes on Syria but it does look like Assad has brought this on himself....!!!


"you are effectively saying one of the most respected US politicians probably under oath is LYING...!!!!"

YES I BLOODY WELL AM!

[Nedusa]

"you are effectively saying one of the most respected US politicians probably under oath is LYING...!!!!"

YES I BLOODY WELL AM!

I cannot believe he would deliberately lie to effectively the whole watching world, what is his reason for doing this , what could be more important to him that he would risk his career and reputation for ??

If found to be lying the way you suggest is almost impossible to comprehend. The man only has to wait a few days to get the evidence back which he says would only confirm the evidence he already has.

I do not know why he would risk everything for the same of a few days ?? Because the UN data will come out by the end of this week latest.

It doesn't make any sense...!!!

[Nemo123]

"A developed capable moderate opposition, and we know how to do that", General X at the table.
America is losing its covert war against, so now they are stepping up the game by pretending Assad attacked his own people.

[Nemo123]

I cannot believe he would deliberately lie to effectively the whole watching world, what is his reason for doing this , what could be more important to him that he would risk his career and reputation for ??

If found to be lying the way you suggest is almost impossible to comprehend. The man only has to wait a few days to get the evidence back which he says would only confirm the evidence he already has.

I do not know why he would risk everything for the same of a few days ?? Because the UN data will come out by the end of this week latest.

It doesn't make any sense...!!!

They can't wait for the UN results because Assad didn't gas his own people. This was done by rebels.

[the truth]

It can only happen through nato

[Nedusa]

They can't wait for the UN results because Assad didn't gas his own people. This was done by rebels.

But they're not going to start any military action until the US Congress passes a yes vote and that will not happen until at least the 9th/10th of September by which time the UN data will be available....

[Nemo123]

It can only happen through nato

Well thank God the British Parliament rejected it! A false flag operation and a crude one.

[Nemo123]

Senator Rubo said, without a hint of irony in his face that Assad was a supporter of Al Queada. America is arming and financing barbarians who cut peoples' heads off with 6" knieves, and set human beings alight like live torches.

[Josy]

Sky News Newsdesk ‏@SkyNewsBreak 8m
Syrian Government tells French Parliament in letter that "we can work together to reach a diplomatic solution"

.

[Ninastar]

How many people from the general public do you think are going to be killed or badly injured if these strikes go ahead though?

Not to mention the fact that if they do go ahead and attack there is a very high probability of more chemical weapons attacks too.

Just as many that are getting killed by their own people... I think if nothing is done, more innocent people will be killed. You can't talk to these terrorists and convince them to stop. You need to take action. And yeah it's sad that innocent people will be killed. i wouldn't want that to happen at all. but i think the terrorists need to know that what they are doing is not okay.

all just my opinion of course :)

[the truth]

I agree we must pressurise nato and the UN but the UN is merely a talking shop but we can use it to build support. then its down to NATO because we need a united stand to take action. we simply have to win popular opinion and get a strong majority on side to take action of some kind. even if it meant we reached a stage that backed syrias dictator into a corner. I just don't think we the americans and maybe the French can go it alone again. the downside would be too atrocious. we also need to finally help the Africans or else we look like oil obsessed greedy hypocrites

[Nemo123]

The counter argument goes: the rebels are losing and they need the USA to interfere on their behalf.

[Nedusa]

Why does NATO have to get involved ? It's nothing to do with NATO, why can't the Arab League send in a peacekeeping force. Also NATO getting involved would mean the UK as a senior member also having to get involved.

Looks like the UK is going to get dragged into this one way or another...!!!

[Nemo123]

Why does NATO have to get involved ? It's nothing to do with NATO, why can't the Arab League send in a peacekeeping force. Also NATO getting involved would mean the UK as a senior member also having to get involved.

Looks like the UK is going to get dragged into this one way or another...!!!

You need numbers to justify your actions.

[Livia]

The USA backed the rebels when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan in the 1980s. The CIA even trained the Mujahedeen in Pakistan. Well, that all ended well for the USA, didn't it. Afghanistan's sorted now, isn't it. Oh no, hang on...

Someone has to do something about Syria. I'm not convinced that 'someone' is either us, or the USA. Ideally, the Arab League need to take the lead on this because western countries are viewed with great distrust by the Middle East generally and I feel intervention by the west will exacerbate the situation and lead to a long, bloody conflict where no one wins and lots of people die. I live in hope that one day, the useless, overpaid, overrated twats at the UN will get off their collective arses, stop procrastinating and actually do something.

[Nemo123]

I honestly admit I don't know what's going on in the middle east. I'm guessing the Arab Spring was meant to be the Prague Spring, MKII. Only it hasn't quite worked out that way. Grand plans don't always come off because they're too ambitious. I think the Libyans are already regretting getting rid of Ghadaffi. Iraq was a wonderful country before the West West messed with it. Oil rich Benign dictators don't sit easily with the west.

[GypsyGoth]

I feel sad for the syrian people, it seems like they're being used like pawns in a game of chess.

[Nemo123]

Funny that, I'm tired and confuddled and I'm starting to wonder how Big Brother might affect the people of Syria. Of course they have nothing to do with each other but in my tired state I'm beginning to wonder.

[BBfanUSA]

Funny that, I'm tired and confuddled and I'm starting to wonder how Big Brother might affect the people of Syria. Of course they have nothing to do with each other but in my tired state I'm beginning to wonder.

You mean the concept or the show? Because there was a Middle Eastern version of BB that was cancelled within days because of something.

[Nemo123]

It's just silly to think BB has anything to do with Syria, just because there's a serious discussion thread.

[Nemo123]

I don't watch Western Media any more for my international news. Instead I watch Russia Today and occasionally Press TV from Iran. I know they have gaping holes in their own news, but I'm not interested in their own news. The Western TV news did untold damage to themselves over their coverage of the 2nd Iraq war.

[Josy]

McCain was playing poker on his iPhone during the Senate Hearing..he even tweeted about it :laugh:

Snapped by a Washington post photographer.

http://i43.tinypic.com/iof509.jpg

375022721169506305

[arista]

Up to 90 days of this American Air Attack Murdering
sounds like Hell for the General Public.

No proof who did the gas
thats the crime here

[Nemo123]

Just watched, "Syria Crisis, Free Speech", and nobody questioned whether Assad had did it or not. That was just a futile exercise in debate when the entire premise for your case is likely a lie. If Bashir Al Assad is a brutal dictator then the media has done a lousy job reporting it till now.

[Shaun]

Not sure it's been posted, but the Senate's voted 10-7 for military action.

Oh dear.

[Nemo123]

We need China and Russia to say stop to this imperialism.

[Nedusa]

I know lets go over to Syria and fire off hundreds of cruise missiles which will probably kill thousands of innocent people as revenge for Assad killing thousands of innocent people.

Anybody see the flaw in the logic there...???

[GypsyGoth]

We need China and Russia to say stop to this imperialism.

Yea, because China and Russia are great when it comes to democracy and justice.

[Tom4784]

Foolish Senate.

We should not get involved in a military capacity, send aid to the civilians that are caught in the middle but keep out of the conflict. It's not ours, France's or the US' battle and our presence there will only cause more chaos. Both sides are as bad as each other and neither be favoured.

Let them destroy each other and just do what we can to help the civilians.

[Nedusa]

The astonishing hypocrisy of the US knows no limits, the jaw dropping speeches on Tuesday from senior US politicians almost takes ones breath away.

There has been over 100,000 people killed in the SYRIAN civil war. Now suddenly because chemical weapons were used it matters? To the point where we are going to raise tensions over there to a boiling point?

I didn't see the US crying about red lines when Israel was shelling gaza with white phosphorus... I didn't see the US crying when Iraq was gassing Iran. I didn't see anyone blink when crusty old McCain was meeting with terrorists in Syria (you know.. the guy who cut out the heart of a Syrian christian, and ate it)...

Nope.. don't fear all. The US "Intelligence Community" has all the proof you'll ever need. Oh.. of course they can't SHOW it to you.. just rest easy knowing they HAVE the proof.

I swear, its as if they are sitting in the White House going "let's see how friggin stupid the American public is.. let's see if we can get away with it again".

This whole situation stinks and I'm glad the UK has the sense to stay out of this...!!!

[arista]

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/9/4/257348/default/v1/guardian-1-329x437.png

http://media.skynews.com/media/images/generated/2013/9/4/257350/default/v1/times-1-329x437.png

[Z]

It angers me a little bit reading about the USA openly discussing how best to bomb Syria. Gun toting war lords, they've got to justify their military somehow...

[arista]

It angers me a little bit reading about the USA openly discussing how best to bomb Syria. Gun toting war lords, they've got to justify their military somehow...


Yes its Like a Criminal America President
with the numbers of General Public
not knowing if they are safe.


Also on Ch4News
the PM while still on Holiday just before the Vote
was Phoned by the President to get the Vote.

Fecking America
your plan got Destroyed
due to not enough votes who wanted the Deadly Attack.


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/09/05/article-2412831-1BA3AC51000005DC-62_634x464.jpg

[Nemo123]

Yea, because China and Russia are great when it comes to democracy and justice.

The Americans don't care a hoot about Democracy. They don't even have one in America, just 2 parties financed by wealthy oligarchs.

[Nedusa]

Most Americans don't even know that they are living in chains, they talk about land of the free, fat chance they are free to work themselves into an early grave with no meaningful job security and no real welfare state they are at the mercy of their employers all the time. With only 2 weeks a year paid vacation the lowest in the developed world they can't even look forward to a decent holiday.

So they are free to do what ?? Travel abroad ? How with only 2 weeks a year most will go no where probably stay within their home state and remain fairly ignorant to the outside world. In fact 55% of all Americans don't even have passports..

Land of the free.... Pleeeeasee !!!

[GypsyGoth]

I get it, both of you hate america and americans. However I don't think you should take it out on them just because of bad choices that Obama makes. Isn't that like being annoyed at the syrian people for bad choices their leader is making?

[Nemo123]

I don't hate Americans. I spent 4 months there in my youth and they were thoroughly decent people for the most part.

[GypsyGoth]

Oh sorry, I was sure you disliked people from there.

[Nemo123]

They are very badly informed by their news services especially Fox News, but they for the most part are a decent lot. They ought to question more the veracity of what they're being told, given the history they have of being lied to. The military industrial complex is all too keen to get the US involved in wars because it means big bucks for them.

[Donovan.]

Yeah, I was coming in here to read about Syria, but the 'ignorant Americans' comments are pretty hard to read. I don't mind the 'ignorant American government' comments, it's the distinction that makes me feel better about it.

[Nemo123]

The Project for a New American Century, or PNAC, seems to be the governing principle for the colonisation of the entire Middle East. Only Syria and Iran stand in the way of a complete set.

[the truth]

They are very badly informed by their news services especially Fox News, but they for the most part are a decent lot. They ought to question more the veracity of what they're being told, given the history they have of being lied to. The military industrial complex is all too keen to get the US involved in wars because it means big bucks for them.

americans on average are nicer than british people
at least a person can become successful in America unlike the radical socialist European superstate, which consists of endless bankruptcy and endless erosions of civil rights

Europe is down the toilet, the gap between rich and poor is bigger in Europe now

[the truth]

Yeah, I was coming in here to read about Syria, but the 'ignorant Americans' comments are pretty hard to read. I don't mind the 'ignorant American government' comments, it's the distinction that makes me feel better about it.

agreed this is more like ignorant English men

[Nemo123]

Well, I think a lot of Americans understand the importance of the oil-dollar to the wealth of their economy, and tacitly endorse these wars for oil. Libya and Iraq both threatened to trade their oil in Euros or gold, and that marked the end of them.

[arista]

Yeah, I was coming in here to read about Syria, but the 'ignorant Americans' comments are pretty hard to read. I don't mind the 'ignorant American government' comments, it's the distinction that makes me feel better about it.



Yes it is the Leaders only.

Not the Public of America
they are great.

[arista]

I get it, both of you hate america and americans. However I don't think you should take it out on them just because of bad choices that Obama makes. Isn't that like being annoyed at the syrian people for bad choices their leader is making?


No its the President and his Red Line.
Utter Fool he has become ,worldwide

[the truth]

Well, I think a lot of Americans understand the importance of the oil-dollar to the wealth of their economy, and tacitly endorse these wars for oil. Libya and Iraq both threatened to trade their oil in Euros or gold, and that marked the end of them.

that's is true. this is the main reason Iraq war happened, saddam wanted to trade his oil in euros

[Nedusa]

I get it, both of you hate america and americans. However I don't think you should take it out on them just because of bad choices that Obama makes. Isn't that like being annoyed at the syrian people for bad choices their leader is making?

No, I don't hate Americans on the contary I actually think Americans are in general friendlier than Europeans. Having spent time in the US what struck me the most was the slightly warped worldview they seem to have. They see the world very much through a rosy US prism. They seem to believe the hype re their nation being the absolute leader on so many fronts a vanguard for peace love, freedom and benevolence . They are to a degree politically naive and insular due lack of travel to foreign countries which would broaden their minds.

They do not see what their Govt does in their name ie 800 military bases around the world , over a Trillion dollars a year spent on defence, more than all the other nations of the world combined. The flouting of the UN, the ease with which they start one illegal war after the next to fulfill a corporate Military industrial elite's wishes . The blind allegiance to Israel and the shameful support of their murderous policies.

This is just a glimpse of what the US does but the general US public cannot see this instead seeing their politics wrapped in a bouquet of patriotism. They have no idea of the vast array of arrogant, self serving , immoral and sometimes illegal policies being pursued in their name.

I wish the general US public would wake up to all of this and reclaim their Govt and like their constitution states " by the people for the people"....

[the truth]

No, I don't hate Americans on the contary I actually think Americans are in general friendlier than Europeans. Having spent time in the US what struck me the most was the slightly warped worldview they seem to have. They see the world very much through a rosy US prism. They seem to believe the hype re their nation being the absolute leader on so many fronts a vanguard for peace love, freedom and benevolence . They are to a degree politically naive and insular due lack of travel to foreign countries which would broaden their minds.

They do not see what their Govt does in their name ie 800 military bases around the world , over a Trillion dollars a year spent on defence, more than all the other nations of the world combined. The flouting of the UN, the ease with which they start one illegal war after the next to fulfill a corporate Military industrial elite's wishes . The blind allegiance to Israel and the shameful support of their murderous policies.

This is just a glimpse of what the US does but the general US public cannot see this instead seeing their politics wrapped in a bouquet of patriotism. They have no idea of the vast array of arrogant, self serving , immoral and sometimes illegal policies being pursued in their name.

I wish the general US public would wake up to all of this and reclaim their Govt and like their constitution states " by the people for the people"....

This is merely some americans , mainly those who actually think fox news is a news channel. believe it or not the democrats get a stronger jewish vote than the republicans, because a lot of jews think whats happening in Israel is a disgrace and are against some of the Zionist policies. I also find americans on the whole friendlier than English people. I don't like going to many parts of England any more. that's why I left and went to Wales. Much of England, south east especially is a cold hostile mostly overcrowded concrete jungle with no identity these days.

As for americans, they hate their government and politicians even more than we do, this is partly why they fight to keep it small. Their constitution is a mere 13 pages , the new European one is 580 pages. Ours is a farce. its almost impossible to actually do business in Europe in many sectors. look at fishing, agriculture, transport etc even Gordon brown couldn't get through the new constitution, its unreadable....

The US constitution grew from the grass roots up, its smart its concise too...ironically written by scots Englishmen and Welshmen, dislillusioned by the tyranny of the English monarchy. the US system is infinitely better imho

However the US system does need serious looking at too. as you rightly say many of their foreign policies are an absolute disgrace. However I would rather question what are we doing than merely blaming the superpower. why do so many American companies succeed and so many European ones fail? thus resulting in making them so rich and powerful in the first place?

we are slaves to a Neanderthal-like socialist system of waste government interference, erosion of civil liberties. more cctv here per head in UK than anywhere on earth....the endless stealth taxes , the endless new petty contradictory laws and rules and fines in UK and Europe. all designed to pilfer more cash for the freeloading useless corrupt money grabbing politicians

we need to sort our mess if were ever to even have a presence on the world stage.....we haven't even got aiscraft carriers. our soldiers buy kit off the yanks on the battlefield, we haven't even got a military hospital...we are a disgrace yet we feel the divine right to lecture other nations on ethics? why? our empire was the worst in history? our undemocratic monarchy is still in ownership of the country? what a joke. oh lets keep them to attract American tourists? is that the height of our lowly ambitions

yes bush was a psycho, yes the tea party are mental. But what are we? we don't even make decisions were poodles who follow them regardless
we are the ones who peddled the dodgy dossier and the lies about wmd's we set up Israel as it is? the great leader we could have had was john smith a class act and one who would have skillfully avoided the heinous nightmare of blairism

this government needs to terminate some of blairs 3000 petty laws, they need to back out of Europe too..we need more common sense less petty laws and rules and stupid targets. les sstealth taxes. tighter regulation on the corporate giants and far less regulation on the little man
oh and we should terminate vat too....that pernicious tax accelerated by the so called friend of business HA HA Maggie thatcher milk snatcher is simply a tax designed to stop small people expand their businesses and for corporate sto reclaim any losses. it is the single most immoral economic decision ever made by a british government

in the meantime, we need to find out exactly who carried out what crimes in Syria....probably through nato , though we also need to win public support in the UN and the EU. no one trusts the UN much and Russia has the veto, but it can be used as a useful tool to first win the argument, which the awful blair failed to do , hence the enemy became emboldened

[Nemo123]

I agree with you Nedusa again. I spent 4 months in America. They'd go out of their way to help you. But the World barely existed outside of the 50 States, and they do really think they are the cowboys with the white hats, well the naive ones do, and there's a lot of them. Their sacred 2nd amendment means they are ever vigilant of their own govt, so much so they need automatic rifles at the ready to repel them.There are a lot of libertarians among them unable to square hospitals and motorways with their ideology. I have a lot of sympathy for libertarians when I see the way govt.'s waste money, but people have to get on as a society in order to undertake and complete great projects. Otherwise we'd all be living in huts in the forest with slings and arrows, (because without cooperation we wouldn't have evolved the gun).

[Nedusa]

This is merely some americans , mainly those who actually think fox news is a news channel. believe it or not the democrats get a stronger jewish vote than the republicans, because a lot of jews think whats happening in Israel is a disgrace and are against some of the Zionist policies. I also find americans on the whole friendlier than English people. I don't like going to many parts of England any more. that's why I left and went to Wales. Much of England, south east especially is a cold hostile mostly overcrowded concrete jungle with no identity these days.

As for americans, they hate their government and politicians even more than we do, this is partly why they fight to keep it small. Their constitution is a mere 13 pages , the new European one is 580 pages. Ours is a farce. its almost impossible to actually do business in Europe in many sectors. look at fishing, agriculture, transport etc even Gordon brown couldn't get through the new constitution, its unreadable....

The US constitution grew from the grass roots up, its smart its concise too...ironically written by scots Englishmen and Welshmen, dislillusioned by the tyranny of the English monarchy. the US system is infinitely better imho

However the US system does need serious looking at too. as you rightly say many of their foreign policies are an absolute disgrace. However I would rather question what are we doing than merely blaming the superpower. why do so many American companies succeed and so many European ones fail? thus resulting in making them so rich and powerful in the first place?

we are slaves to a Neanderthal-like socialist system of waste government interference, erosion of civil liberties. more cctv here per head in UK than anywhere on earth....the endless stealth taxes , the endless new petty contradictory laws and rules and fines in UK and Europe. all designed to pilfer more cash for the freeloading useless corrupt money grabbing politicians

we need to sort our mess if were ever to even have a presence on the world stage.....we haven't even got aiscraft carriers. our soldiers buy kit off the yanks on the battlefield, we haven't even got a military hospital...we are a disgrace yet we feel the divine right to lecture other nations on ethics? why? our empire was the worst in history? our undemocratic monarchy is still in ownership of the country? what a joke. oh lets keep them to attract American tourists? is that the height of our lowly ambitions

yes bush was a psycho, yes the tea party are mental. But what are we? we don't even make decisions were poodles who follow them regardless
we are the ones who peddled the dodgy dossier and the lies about wmd's we set up Israel as it is? the great leader we could have had was john smith a class act and one who would have skillfully avoided the heinous nightmare of blairism

this government needs to terminate some of blairs 3000 petty laws, they need to back out of Europe too..we need more common sense less petty laws and rules and stupid targets. les sstealth taxes. tighter regulation on the corporate giants and far less regulation on the little man
oh and we should terminate vat too....that pernicious tax accelerated by the so called friend of business HA HA Maggie thatcher milk snatcher is simply a tax designed to stop small people expand their businesses and for corporate sto reclaim any losses. it is the single most immoral economic decision ever made by a british government

in the meantime, we need to find out exactly who carried out what crimes in Syria....probably through nato , though we also need to win public support in the UN and the EU. no one trusts the UN much and Russia has the veto, but it can be used as a useful tool to first win the argument, which the awful blair failed to do , hence the enemy became emboldened

Thanks Truth.... Very well constructed post in reply to mine, you expanded on a lot of the points I made and added a fair amount of background context.

Thanks for taking the time to post this .....

[arista]

Kerry is on a World tour
saying how its not a Iraq.


Yes its not
but it could become Far Worse like WW3.



Russia has put 3 more shios near there
they say for anty russians that need to get out of Syria?


You would think any Russians would have left
before this weeks Deadly Evil Shock & Awe Mega Bombing
by President Obama
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-S8_Bs7anuVM/TX0yYUZh7xI/AAAAAAAABeE/gO-K1H5wjOc/s320/Tomahawk%2Bmissile.bmp

[arista]

Kerry has Arrived in the UK.
SkyNewsHD Live


Feck Off back to your War Nation USA

[Nedusa]

I'm finding it hard to call this now, as each day passes I think it's less likely the US will go ahead with any Military action. In fact the noises coming from Obama suggest he is veering away from this course. I think he is praying the vote in congress fails on Tuesday and that he can do a David Cameron.

Nearly all the major powers are against Military action if not sanctioned by the UN. Only France, Turkey and Saudi Arabia want immediate military action but they all have their own personal reasons for wanting to remove Assad.

I hope no action will be taken as the further deaths of thousands of innocent Syrians helps nobody...!!!

[arista]

I'm finding it hard to call this now, as each day passes I think it's less likely the US will go ahead with any Military action. In fact the noises coming from Obama suggest he is veering away from this course. I think he is praying the vote in congress fails on Tuesday and that he can do a David Cameron.

Nearly all the major powers are against Military action if not sanctioned by the UN. Only France, Turkey and Saudi Arabia want immediate military action but they all have their own personal reasons for wanting to remove Assad.

I hope no action will be taken as the further deaths of thousands of innocent Syrians helps nobody...!!!


No USA and France are going to Attack
The President does not have to get congress behind him
He has power above them - The Evil Git

[arista]

http://i40.tinypic.com/2j5anoj.jpg

Back in 1972 America Used
this.


The irony

[Nemo123]

No USA and France are going to Attack
The President does not have to get congress behind him
He has power above them - The Evil Git

They were asking on the News today, Russia Today, if he would dare defy them, although he has the power to do so.

It's in the Democrats style to just fire missiles, just like they did in Clinton's time. War at an arm's remove.

[Nemo123]

Arista, if you thought that was ironic, watch this, from 2.45 with George Galloway:

http://ausbullion.blogspot.ie/2013/09/abby-martin-and-george-galloway-discuss.html

[arista]

Arista, if you thought that was ironic, watch this, from 2.45 with George Galloway:

http://ausbullion.blogspot.ie/2013/09/abby-martin-and-george-galloway-discuss.html


seen it



Meanwhile The Evil USA Attack on Syria
goes ahead soon

[Nedusa]

Talking to reporters after the conclusion of the G-20 meeting, the president of Russia, Vladimir Putin, declared that any military intervention in Syria without United Nations Security Council authorization is an illegal act of aggression. He also said that his country will supply (sell, that is) the Syrian government with weapons to defend itself.

This statement, in a sense, clarifies an earlier declaration by his foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, when he said that if the United States starts a war in Syria, Russia will not be part of it. Some analysts thought that Lavrov's statement signaled Russia's readiness to abandon Assad. The increased number of Russia warships near Syria and Putin's statement reveal a different strategy.

When the US provided weapons and training to the 1970-1980s Afghan rebels who exhausted the Soviet Union to the point of collapse, Putin was a KGB officer. Now a president, he is well aware of how the US exhausted the Soviet Union using proxy fighters and without committing American troops to the decade and a half long war in Afghanistan.

The Soviet Union on the other hand, bled money and troops in a war of attrition. Putin, publicly, likes to compare the possible war on Syria to the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Privately, however, he might be thinking of the 1980s conflict in Afghanistan.

By refusing to send troops to support the Syrian government and providing it with sophisticated weapons instead, he is adopting the American strategy of the 1980s. He might be hoping that the US will be dragged into a protracted war of attrition similar to the one that, in addition to other factors, caused the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The similarities are striking. In the 1980s, the US worked with its ally, Saudi Arabia, to sharpen the propaganda campaign against the regime in Afghanistan and its backer, the Soviet Union. Consequently, tens of thousands of religious Wahhabis (using former secretary of state Hillary Clinton's words) from the Arab world gathered in military training camps in Pakistan to begin their holy war against the secular Afghan regime and its Soviet backers. The outcome is well known.

Today, again, with US consent, Saudi Arabia and Qatar have launched a propaganda war painting Assad as a brutal dictator and an agent of Russia and Iran. They have facilitated the transfer of religious zealots from Tunisia, Libya, Jordan, the Gulf States, and even Europe to Turkey where they have received training and weapons. They have then been helped to sneak into Syria.

Today, it is estimated that 10,000 foreigners fighting on the side of the Free Syrian Army in Syria for a single purpose: overthrowing the Syrian government. But what would happen after the fall of the government is anyone's guess because each group of rebels has a different agenda.

The engineers of this civil war reckoned that Assad would fall in months, if not weeks. Three years later, it appears that Assad is actually reversing the rebels' earlier gains. Saudi Arabia decided to pressure its ally, the US to do more to hasten the fall of the Syrian regime. Hence Obama's decision to launch military strikes to degrade Assad's military capabilities.

Obama faces strong resistance at home and abroad. While attending the meeting of the G-20, he hoped that he could drum some support and build a coalition. Only Canada, France, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey supported a military strike with or without UNSC consent. He returns to Washington to build support at home for his war of choice despite a low 20% public support - a 20% of Americans unlikely to be from among the people who actually voted for him.

Putin does not need to prevent the attack and he does not seem interested in doing so. He seems interested in providing the Syrian government with the means to absorb the first strikes and react in a protracted way, forcing the US administration and its allies to do more over a long time, just like what happened in Afghanistan in the 1980s.

In other words, Putin is equally happy with or without a war that would cost his country nothing (Assad is paying for the weapons). As this deadly game between giants unfold, more Syrians will be killed, more civilians will be forced out of their homes, and more physical damage will be inflicted on an already devastated country, transforming Syria into another failed state due to acts of others.

The US, too, will bleed money and credibility because of another purposeless war. The way out for President Obama is to realize that he is being goaded into war by Saudi Arabia and an imaginary red line, to resist the sense of grandeur and hubris that comes with the privilege of commanding the most powerful army in the world today, and to launch a new diplomatic strategy initiative that will transform the Middle East and end the war in Syria by forcing all parties to reach a political settlement.

The proposed Geneva-2 peace conference remains the only path on which all (responsible) regional and global powers agree, though it may not be an option if Obama attacks the Syrian government.

[arista]

One Option now floating about
is Syria hand over all their Chemical Weapons

That would delay it all

[Nedusa]

One Option now floating about
is Syria hand over all their Chemical Weapons

That would delay it all

Perhaps they might if Israel could be persuaded to hand over all their Nuclear weapons.....

I don't think the ice sheet has formed in Hell quite yet............!!!!

[arista]

Perhaps they might if Israel could be persuaded to hand over all their Nuclear weapons.....

I don't think the ice sheet has formed in Hell quite yet............!!!!


No they would never give up their Nukes
and in any case
its not them attacking (unless they are attacked)

[arista]

On Ch4News
just now in America a Lady shouted at a meeting
in Washington DC that she voted twice for this President
why are the Public - Not Getting a Vote on this.

Thats America - Not Democratic on this.

[Nedusa]

Just heard on RT news now that there is a plan for Syrian rebels to try and create a false flag attack on Israel using chemical weapons. This attack would come from Syrian govt held territory and would surely be blamed by the Israeli's on Assad's regime.

If this happens then all bets are off and forget all votes in US or anywhere else, the War would start immediately and it will destabilise the whole of the Middle East... The beginnings of a World conflict for sure....!!!!

[arista]

Just heard on RT news now that there is a plan for Syrian rebels to try and create a false flag attack on Israel using chemical weapons. This attack would come from Syrian govt held territory and would surely be blamed by the Israeli's on Assad's regime.

If this happens then all bets are off and forget all votes in US or anywhere else, the War would start immediately and it will destabilise the whole of the Middle East... The beginnings of a World conflict for sure....!!!!



Yes Rebels/al-Qaeda today also killed loads in
The Syrian Christian town of Maalula

Thats who the President likes - the rebels

[BBfanUSA]

On Ch4News
just now in America a Lady shouted at a meeting
in Washington DC that she voted twice for this President
why are the Public - Not Getting a Vote on this.

Thats America - Not Democratic on this.

Because if just the public decided on this, then WE WOULD GET NOTHING DONE. The majority of Americans would choose not to go to war. This is why we send representatives and senators to Washington

[Josy]

Read a few times tonight that Assad is willing to turn over his chemical weapons so why does Obama still want to go ahead with this attack?

Seems like he wants rid of the Regime...

[arista]

Read a few times tonight that Assad is willing to turn over his chemical weapons so why does Obama still want to go ahead with this attack?

Seems like he wants rid of the Regime...




He said If they get Control/Ownership of all Chemical Weapons
then no attack.


Of course Assad is not moving fast on this - even
though all reports have said they want to give them up.
Assad should go on Worldwide TV News
and say he is giving them up
unless he wants America attacking.


Russia , China & Iran also want the chemical weapons given up.

[BBfanUSA]

Okay Russia is getting them and they have been very antiLGBT lately.What's wrong here?

[arista]

Okay Russia is getting them and they have been very antiLGBT lately.What's wrong here?


Russia trades with Syria
they are Connected


Like USA and China is.

[Z]

Read a few times tonight that Assad is willing to turn over his chemical weapons so why does Obama still want to go ahead with this attack?

Seems like he wants rid of the Regime...

Because the USA wants to isolate Iran.

[arista]

Russia has now given a statement
saying they have the plans to hand
all Syria owned
chemical weapons
to International Control.

Kerry is on his way to Geneva.


Russia in full control


Ref: SkyNewsHD , RT HD

[MTVN]

The system works

Maybe

[GypsyGoth]

I think Obama looks very weak over this whole thing.

[arista]

I think Obama looks very weak over this whole thing.


Bang On Right

[Nemo123]

He said If they get Control/Ownership of all Chemical Weapons
then no attack.


Of course Assad is not moving fast on this - even
though all reports have said they want to give them up.
Assad should go on Worldwide TV News
and say he is giving them up
unless he wants America attacking.


Russia , China & Iran also want the chemical weapons given up.
They had the same assurance from Iraq in 2003 but wouldn't give the UN inspectors time to verify there were no weapons. The very same is likely to happen here if the US are really determined to go ahead with their attack.

[Nemo123]

Just got the 10'oC news in my ear, and I have to repeat exactly my last post. Saddam opened its doors to UN inspectors but that didn't save them from attack on spurious and illegal grounds.
I'm a Westerner and God I hate the West. If there was a call to arms I know which side would draw me. It's like the Spanish Civil War where idealists were drawn to one side, the fascists, or the communists.

[Livia]

Just got the 10'oC news in my ear, and I have to repeat exactly my last post. Saddam opened its doors to UN inspectors but that didn't save them from attack on spurious and illegal grounds.
I'm a Westerner and God I hate the West. If there was a call to arms I know which side would draw me. It's like the Spanish Civil War where idealists were drawn to one side, the fascists, or the communists.

It's comfortable to sit in the safety of a country where freedoms have been fought for by people you're renouncing, and use the freedom of speech other people have died for to say you'd support the other side. It's good to live in a society where you can say stuff like that and not end up - at best - in a cell somewhere.

[Nemo123]

It's comfortable to sit in the safety of a country where freedoms have been fought for by people you're renouncing, and use the freedom of speech other people have died for to say you'd support the other side. It's good to live in a society where you can say stuff like that and not end up - at best - in a cell somewhere.

Whenever I hear that, and it's quite often, though not said directly to me, I say it's not YOUR gift and don't patronise me with it. We have free speech on internet forums, but try to tell the public your govt. are acting illegally and see where that gets you. Bradley Manning tried telling his superiors (up the command chain) the US were passing on names of political opponents to the Iraqi Govt, and he got 35 years in clink.

[the truth]

I think Obama looks very weak over this whole thing.

In what way? Hes pressurised the Russians to step in and get the weapons off the Syrians. Hes made a stern threat to go to war if all else fails and seems pretty convincing. He has shown more leadership on this than anyone else. Or would you rather he reacted like..that aggressive prank monkey George Warmonger Bush, who attacked Iraq as revenge for 911 which had nothing to do with Iraq? if hed spotted genocide in Syria hed have gotten so mad hed have invaded Canada land

[MTVN]

Vlad the Impaler leading the world once again

[GypsyGoth]

In what way? Hes pressurised the Russians to step in and get the weapons off the Syrians. Hes made a stern threat to go to war if all else fails and seems pretty convincing. He has shown more leadership on this than anyone else. Or would you rather he reacted like..that aggressive prank monkey George Warmonger Bush, who attacked Iraq as revenge for 911 which had nothing to do with Iraq? if hed spotted genocide in Syria hed have gotten so mad hed have invaded Canada land

He mentioned there being a red line (I think) that if the Syria's crossed, he would act. He said using chemical weapons was crossing that line.

Now when they were used in that country, he said he was going to fire missiles and teach Assad a lesson, perhaps even do so much damage to his army that the coalition of crazy muslims and normal rebels might get the upper hand in that war (maybe that's what him and his advisers want).

However the crazy muslim part of that coalition is a lot like the one that has been attacking america and caused 911. So getting rid of Assad might let them get into power in a country and allow them to enforce sharia law.

Anyhoo when it came time for Obama to give the word and start the attack, he first lost the UK as a war ally, then it turned out the people in the US were against the idea (I think it's to do with the fatigue from the seemingly endless wars in that part of the world for them), and if it was put to a vote, the republicans, and the members of his own party who disagreed with attacking Syria, would have defeated Obama.

I might add that Obama mentioned he didn't even need approval of his congress, that he could launch an attack regardless. This turned out to be false, he can only do that if the US is under threat. So when this idea that the russian would supervise Syria getting rid of their chemical weapons, Obama jumped on it as if it was his plan all along.

But in reality he couldn't launch the attack he wanted, that is why I say he looked weak to me.

And who knows what Bush would have done in that situation, there would have been different advisers guiding him and thus a different agenda.

[Novo]

Putin has dealt with this whole situation so well, i dread to think where Syria would be now if Putin wasn't around to keep order and offer reasonable ways out of this situation without the loss of more lives, but no doubt people will turn a blindeye to his negotiating and peacekeeping skills during this whole thing and choose to target his own personal beliefs and the way he chooses to lead Russia

[arista]

Putin has dealt with this whole situation so well, i dread to think where Syria would be now if Putin wasn't around to keep order and offer reasonable ways out of this situation without the loss of more lives, but no doubt people will turn a blindeye to his negotiating and peacekeeping skills during this whole thing and choose to target his own personal beliefs and the way he chooses to lead Russia


Yes Putin has Control.



The American Leader can not even get on the Daily Show.

[Nedusa]

I think Obama looks very weak over this whole thing.

Or very strong.....??????

[Nedusa]

Putin has dealt with this whole situation so well, i dread to think where Syria would be now if Putin wasn't around to keep order and offer reasonable ways out of this situation without the loss of more lives, but no doubt people will turn a blindeye to his negotiating and peacekeeping skills during this whole thing and choose to target his own personal beliefs and the way he chooses to lead Russia

Yes I agree Putin is a master strategist an expert in Geopolitics probably stemming from his prowess on the Chess board.

He seems to be 3 or 4 moves ahead of Obama at any given time...!!

[Nemo123]

Assad is very hard to portray as a villain. He just doesn't come across as evil. He's ruled Syria a long time and I've never heard the News bleat on about his brutality until now. So I just don't buy it that he is a brutal dictator or an oppressor. He's mild mannered and speaks almost perfect English, unlike Saddam. He stole the PR high ground from Obama yesterday by getting on CNN before Obama, and he preempted the US excuse for attacking Syria. Of course NATO can always do what the did with Saddam and declare he's not meeting his commitments. The US will be making a terrible error if they do attack Syria, because right behind Syria is Russia.

[the truth]

He mentioned there being a red line (I think) that if the Syria's crossed, he would act. He said using chemical weapons was crossing that line.

Now when they were used in that country, he said he was going to fire missiles and teach Assad a lesson, perhaps even do so much damage to his army that the coalition of crazy muslims and normal rebels might get the upper hand in that war (maybe that's what him and his advisers want).

However the crazy muslim part of that coalition is a lot like the one that has been attacking america and caused 911. So getting rid of Assad might let them get into power in a country and allow them to enforce sharia law.

Anyhoo when it came time for Obama to give the word and start the attack, he first lost the UK as a war ally, then it turned out the people in the US were against the idea (I think it's to do with the fatigue from the seemingly endless wars in that part of the world for them), and if it was put to a vote, the republicans, and the members of his own party who disagreed with attacking Syria, would have defeated Obama.

I might add that Obama mentioned he didn't even need approval of his congress, that he could launch an attack regardless. This turned out to be false, he can only do that if the US is under threat. So when this idea that the russian would supervise Syria getting rid of their chemical weapons, Obama jumped on it as if it was his plan all along.

But in reality he couldn't launch the attack he wanted, that is why I say he looked weak to me.

And who knows what Bush would have done in that situation, there would have been different advisers guiding him and thus a different agenda.

Im sorry I think youre totally wrong. Youre making the fatal error of mistaking decency and patience for weakness. Obama has already got a result with the russians fully supporting and implementing the syrian disarmourment of chemical weapons. maybe the russians have had a sweetener who knows. but this is true progress, obama style. He has the list of weapons to be delivered within a week. if not forthcoming the UN will enforce it as obama and kerry have persuaded putin not to veto this.

what else would you want from him at this moment? surely not a bomb and all decade long george bush style war? killing several 100 thousand ?

forget ye not, obama took OBL and 100s of his underlings , he ended the iraq war, he assisted the toppling of ghaddafi and he is withdrawing from the 12 year afghanistan nightmare too. He has helped thwart a vast number of terrorist plots. He has also started a comprehensive nucleur disarmourment programme. Yes there have been mistakes like benghazi, yes he needs to get firmer with israel and Palestine. He has at least kept the Iranian situation under some control, though of course that will run and run. But his foreign results incomparable to warmonger bush. Ultimately he has been respectful , he has been thoughtful , learned (he is a historian too) which helps. Cleary Putin does have a decent relationship with him , otherwise he probably wouldnt have gotten so deeply involved here.

[GypsyGoth]

Im sorry I think youre totally wrong. Youre making the fatal error of mistaking decency and patience for weakness. Obama has already got a result with the russians fully supporting and implementing the syrian disarmourment of chemical weapons. maybe the russians have had a sweetener who knows. but this is true progress, obama style. He has the list of weapons to be delivered within a week. if not forthcoming the UN will enforce it as obama and kerry have persuaded putin not to veto this.

what else would you want from him at this moment? surely not a bomb and all decade long george bush style war? killing several 100 thousand ?

forget ye not, obama took OBL and 100s of his underlings , he ended the iraq war, he assisted the toppling of ghaddafi and he is withdrawing from the 12 year afghanistan nightmare too. He has helped thwart a vast number of terrorist plots. He has also started a comprehensive nucleur disarmourment programme. Yes there have been mistakes like benghazi, yes he needs to get firmer with israel and Palestine. He has at least kept the Iranian situation under some control, though of course that will run and run. But his foreign results incomparable to warmonger bush. Ultimately he has been respectful , he has been thoughtful , learned (he is a historian too) which helps. Cleary Putin does have a decent relationship with him , otherwise he probably wouldnt have gotten so deeply involved here.

You are mistaken, I am not wrong at all, where you and Nedusa see strength in the wishy washy way he's handled this, I see it for what it is.

What I want from the situation is for peace to happen. But that's not what my comment was about, I was referring to Obama's lack of decisiveness.

From my understanding russia & syria are allies, the notion that russia are doing this for the good of the US is incorrect.

And you left out stuff about Obama, like how the egyptian army are bankrolled by his government, they get about 1 billion a year from his government, this army recently overthrew the democratically elected president.

Also you left out how people have been locked up by Obama without trial and are still imprisoned by him, he has the power to release them.

Obama is just as much a warmonger as Bush was, but one of the differences is that Bush would have been decisive over this syrian thing.

[arista]

"Obama is just as much a warmonger as Bush was"


Bang On Right

[Nedusa]

You are mistaken, I am not wrong at all, where you and Nedusa see strength in the wishy washy way he's handled this, I see it for what it is.

What I want from the situation is for peace to happen. But that's not what my comment was about, I was referring to Obama's lack of decisiveness.

From my understanding russia & syria are allies, the notion that russia are doing this for the good of the US is incorrect.

And you left out stuff about Obama, like how the egyptian army are bankrolled by his government, they get about 1 billion a year from his government, this army recently overthrew the democratically elected president.

Also you left out how people have been locked up by Obama without trial and are still imprisoned by him, he has the power to release them.

Obama is just as much a warmonger as Bush was, but one of the differences is that Bush would have been decisive over this syrian thing.

No..... Obama is nothing like Bush... Bush was a cretin, stupidest man ever to hold the office of President of the United States of America. Starting war after war after war and sacrificing thousands of American servicemen not to mention the hundreds of thousands of innocent victims was never the actions of a sensible, rational president .

Obama at least tries to pursue a policy of least use of force or force as a LAST resort not a first resort like Bush. I agree Obama has not handled the present crises from the front but you could argue Syrian disarmament of chemical weapons has resulted from the threat of use of force.

This has to make The US ultimately look as if they have achieved Syria's abandonment of Chemical weapons as a personal triumph for the current US administration.

[Kizzy]

Syria hails US-Russia deal on chemical weaponsBreaking news
The US-Russia agreement on destroying Syria's chemical weapons enables Syria to "avoid war", a senior minister says.

The framework document says Syria must provide full details of its stockpile within a week - with the chemical arsenal eliminated by mid-2014.

If Syria fails to comply, the deal could be enforced by a UN resolution with the use of force as a last resort.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24100296

[the truth]

You are mistaken, I am not wrong at all, where you and Nedusa see strength in the wishy washy way he's handled this, I see it for what it is.

What I want from the situation is for peace to happen. But that's not what my comment was about, I was referring to Obama's lack of decisiveness.

From my understanding russia & syria are allies, the notion that russia are doing this for the good of the US is incorrect.

And you left out stuff about Obama, like how the egyptian army are bankrolled by his government, they get about 1 billion a year from his government, this army recently overthrew the democratically elected president.

Also you left out how people have been locked up by Obama without trial and are still imprisoned by him, he has the power to release them.

Obama is just as much a warmonger as Bush was, but one of the differences is that Bush would have been decisive over this syrian thing.


1) re guantanamo bay, progress has been slow. But the place that expanded under bush for years with water boarding, now the number of inmtes has fallen to 169 and obama has been opposed by the republicans evert single step of the way
2) re syria Obama has been decisive though what could or should have been done by him the UN and the international community before the atrocities is a major question. But obama demanded action, he demanded a list of weapons, he got kerry on the case and kerry has risen to the task, obama persuaded the ruskies to sort it out too, he also demanded UN action. Where is your blame for the rest of the world?
3) whether the ruskies are doing for the good of america is utterly irrelevant, all that matters is that putin is acting thanks in part to obama.
4) As big a warmonger as bush? please back up that monolithic nonsense? the 1 difference is their decisiveness? yes decisiveness to go into massive bloodbath wars over lies where vast numbers are destroyed for illogical dishonest reasons? creating more terorism and more carnage for innocent people. if thats decisiveness , give me ponderous, thoughful , patient, cautious thanks very much.

Bush invaded a nation for no logical reason and left 100s of thousands of innocents dead, some estimate a million. for what? the premise of this 10 year carnage was based on pure lies. meanwhile bush let the actual people responsible for 911 off the hook? my how decisive? what has obama done that comes within a million miles of this atrocity?
5) as for the eqyptian situation. firstly Im not going to defend the US on this. their hand picking of puppet regimes has gone on across the middle east for decades. its all part of their empire. but you want to lay all that at obamas door for this? really? one glorious day the US will finally take all of their 1000 army camps worldwide and go home. until such a day the us president has to play the hand he is dealt. I dont think its conclusive that obama deliberately funded a military coup either , though the us governments have been doing this for a very long time. morsi seemed to be a diaster. but it was a democratic disaster. was the military funding sent to embolden him or to weaken him?

[GypsyGoth]

@ the truth & Nedusa, I don't have time to reply now, but I will get around to it during the week.

[GypsyGoth]

No..... Obama is nothing like Bush... Bush was a cretin, stupidest man ever to hold the office of President of the United States of America. Starting war after war after war and sacrificing thousands of American servicemen not to mention the hundreds of thousands of innocent victims was never the actions of a sensible, rational president .

Obama at least tries to pursue a policy of least use of force or force as a LAST resort not a first resort like Bush. I agree Obama has not handled the present crises from the front but you could argue Syrian disarmament of chemical weapons has resulted from the threat of use of force.

This has to make The US ultimately look as if they have achieved Syria's abandonment of Chemical weapons as a personal triumph for the current US administration.

I think just because Bush found it difficult speaking to people and got muddled at times, that doesn't make him stupid. He became the president, I really don't believe a cretin could do such a thing.

1) re guantanamo bay, progress has been slow. But the place that expanded under bush for years with water boarding, now the number of inmtes has fallen to 169 and obama has been opposed by the republicans evert single step of the way
2) re syria Obama has been decisive though what could or should have been done by him the UN and the international community before the atrocities is a major question. But obama demanded action, he demanded a list of weapons, he got kerry on the case and kerry has risen to the task, obama persuaded the ruskies to sort it out too, he also demanded UN action. Where is your blame for the rest of the world?
3) whether the ruskies are doing for the good of america is utterly irrelevant, all that matters is that putin is acting thanks in part to obama.
4) As big a warmonger as bush? please back up that monolithic nonsense? the 1 difference is their decisiveness? yes decisiveness to go into massive bloodbath wars over lies where vast numbers are destroyed for illogical dishonest reasons? creating more terorism and more carnage for innocent people. if thats decisiveness , give me ponderous, thoughful , patient, cautious thanks very much.

Bush invaded a nation for no logical reason and left 100s of thousands of innocents dead, some estimate a million. for what? the premise of this 10 year carnage was based on pure lies. meanwhile bush let the actual people responsible for 911 off the hook? my how decisive? what has obama done that comes within a million miles of this atrocity?
5) as for the eqyptian situation. firstly Im not going to defend the US on this. their hand picking of puppet regimes has gone on across the middle east for decades. its all part of their empire. but you want to lay all that at obamas door for this? really? one glorious day the US will finally take all of their 1000 army camps worldwide and go home. until such a day the us president has to play the hand he is dealt. I dont think its conclusive that obama deliberately funded a military coup either , though the us governments have been doing this for a very long time. morsi seemed to be a diaster. but it was a democratic disaster. was the military funding sent to embolden him or to weaken him?

I'll go through your points in reverse order.


5. I don't fully understand what you're asking me. I feel that no one wanted egypt to become a muslim state, and it seem like it was heading that way, I think that is why the US had a problem with it.

And I think the world is a safer place with american army bases dotted around it, I believe we'd be speaking chinese or russian or forced to wear hijaabs without them keeping other countries in check.

4. Ok I did a bit a research and Obama has entered the US into more conflicts than Bush, also in the year 2010 & 2011 Obama spent more on the military that any other president before him. (If you are interested in disputing this, go look it up, it's not just my opinion, it's based in facts, Obama is as big a warmonger as Bush was).

He isn't a peaceful person at all, in fact the US has been involved in war every day of his presidency.

And these drone attack that he carries out in Pakistan, it's creating a steady amount of recruits for these terror organisation that attack america. He's just creating a bigger problem for others to deal with after he's gone.

3. Just because you think the russians motivation for acting are irrelevant, that doesn't make it so.

2. You say Obama demanded this and that. If he had the power to make demands of people, he would have got his way and bombed syria. Instead he had to back down and look for a way out of the conflict.

1. Isn't the real reason that these are dangerous people who hate america and there is no safe way to deal with them, so the best thing to do is ignore their human rights and keep them locked up, that way more americans (and innocent people throughout the world) are protected, but if you want to credit republicans with that, it's fine by me.

[the truth]

[QUOTE=GypsyGoth;6383838]I think just because Bush found it difficult speaking to people and got muddled at times, that doesn't make him stupid. He became the president, I really don't believe a cretin could do such a thing.



I'll go through your points one by one. I will put my responses in capitals so as to differentiate from your quotes, sorry if it looks like shouting.


5. I don't fully understand what you're asking me. I feel that no one wanted egypt to become a muslim state, and it seem like it was heading that way, I think that is why the US had a problem with it.

IM ASKING DO YOU BLAME OBAMA FOR THE STATE OF EGYPT? IF SO WHY?

And I think the world is a safer place with american army bases dotted around it, I believe we'd be speaking chinese or russian or forced to wear hijaabs without them keeping other countries in check.

YOU SEEM TO CRITICIZE US IMPERIALISM BUT HERE YOU SEEM TO COMMEND IT?

4. Ok I did a bit a research and Obama has entered the US into more conflicts than Bush, also in the year 2010 & 2011 Obama spent more on the military that any other president before him. (If you are interested in disputing this, go look it up, it's not just my opinion, it's based in facts, Obama is as big a warmonger as Bush was).

INTO MORE CONFLICTS? SO WHAT? ITS NOT THE NUMBER OF CONFLICTS, ITS THE RIGHTS AND THE WRONGS, THE RESULTS AND THE NUMBERS KILLED OR INJURED THAT MATTER SURELY?

He isn't a peaceful person at all, in fact the US has been involved in war every day of his presidency.

AS WITH ALL PRESIDENTS. THE 2 MAIN WARS WERE SET IN MOTION SEVERAL YEARS EARLIER. HE HAS AT LEAST ENDED ONE AND BROUGHT DEADLINES TO THE OTHER. HIS OTHER INCURSIONS WERE IN STRONGER COALITIONS AND SHORT BATTLES. HE HAS FOUND FAR BETTER RELATIONS WITH COALITION PARTNERS THAN BUSH. HE IS AN INFINITELY BETTER COLLABORATOR.

And these drone attack that he carries out in Pakistan, it's creating a steady amount of recruits for these terror organisation that attack america. He's just creating a bigger problem for others to deal with after he's gone.

EASY TO SAY BUT HE SAYS THIS IS THE PRICE THAT NEEDED TO BE PAID TO A) AVOID INVADING NATIONS WITH BOMBS AND MISSILES AND VAST KILLINGS OF INNOCENTS. THIS METHOD IS ENORMOUSLY MORE ACCURATE AND THE DEATH TOLL IS VASTLY SMALLER. THE NUMBER OF SOLDIERS AND CITIZENS WHO HAVE BEEN KILLED UNDER OBAMAS RULE IS MUCH SMALLER THAN UNDER BUSH.

3. Just because you think the russians motivation for acting are irrelevant, that doesn't make it so.

YES IT DOES, THE RESULTS ARE ALL THAT MATTER.

2. You say Obama demanded this and that. If he had the power to make demands of people, he would have got his way and bombed syria. Instead he had to back down and look for a way out of the conflict.

WRONG. TOTALLY WRONG. HE HAD TO MAKE A REASONABLE REALISTIC THREAT. THE FACT HE ACTED SO QUICKLY AND WITH KERRY AND CO SO EFFECTIVELY HAS SEEN THIS MOVE FORWARD QUICKLY. THE UN HAVE NOW PROVED THIS WAS A CHEMICAL ATTACK. THE WORLD IS NOW TOTALLY AGAINST ASSAD AND IN SUPPORT OF OBAMA AND OF THE DEAL HE HAS WITH THE RUSSIANS. HE HAS SMARTLY AND PATIENTLY WON THE PUBLIC SUPPORT THROUGH PATIENCE , COMMON SENSE AND THOUGHTFULNESS.
COMPARE THAT TO THE HYSTERICAL LIES AND CARNAGE OF BUSH AND BLIAR?


1. Isn't the real reason that these are dangerous people who hate america and there is no safe way to deal with them, so the best thing to do is ignore their human rights and keep them locked up, that way more americans (and innocent people throughout the world) are protected, but if you want to credit republicans with that, it's fine by me.

THIS POINT MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL. YOU CRITICIZED GUANTANAMO BAY. OBAMA HAS REDUCED THE POPULATION BY 50%. WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT REPUBLICANS V DEMOCRATS?



I WAITED 24 HOURS FOR YOUR RESPONSES AND I HAVE TO SAY IM DEEPLY DISAPPOINTED IN THEM?

CAN YOU PLEASE CLARIFY WHAT YOU WANTED OBAMA TO DO IN THESE SITUATIONS?

[Nedusa]

I think just because Bush found it difficult speaking to people and got muddled at times, that doesn't make him stupid. He became the president, I really don't believe a cretin could do such a thing.



I'll go through your points in reverse order.


5. I don't fully understand what you're asking me. I feel that no one wanted egypt to become a muslim state, and it seem like it was heading that way, I think that is why the US had a problem with it.

And I think the world is a safer place with american army bases dotted around it, I believe we'd be speaking chinese or russian or forced to wear hijaabs without them keeping other countries in check.

4. Ok I did a bit a research and Obama has entered the US into more conflicts than Bush, also in the year 2010 & 2011 Obama spent more on the military that any other president before him. (If you are interested in disputing this, go look it up, it's not just my opinion, it's based in facts, Obama is as big a warmonger as Bush was).

He isn't a peaceful person at all, in fact the US has been involved in war every day of his presidency.

And these drone attack that he carries out in Pakistan, it's creating a steady amount of recruits for these terror organisation that attack america. He's just creating a bigger problem for others to deal with after he's gone.

3. Just because you think the russians motivation for acting are irrelevant, that doesn't make it so.

2. You say Obama demanded this and that. If he had the power to make demands of people, he would have got his way and bombed syria. Instead he had to back down and look for a way out of the conflict.

1. Isn't the real reason that these are dangerous people who hate america and there is no safe way to deal with them, so the best thing to do is ignore their human rights and keep them locked up, that way more americans (and innocent people throughout the world) are protected, but if you want to credit republicans with that, it's fine by me.

The man (Bush) should never have been President, was never clever enough to hold that office and only did so because of his father. He received the Republican nomination through a mixture of coercement,blackmail and lies.He had no real aspirations to lead his country , the guy was a failed businessman a drunk, a womaniser,a liar ,drug taker and a cheat. Really good presidential qualities...!!!

But the choices he made in office completely vindicated his reputation, treating the middle east as a large computer game where he could take on all comers, his reaction to 911 ??? his bombing of Afghanistan, Iraq and Guantanamo Bay....outrageous... the actions of a moron told what to do by everybody around him as his grasp on the subtleties of Middle east politics were as non existent as were his florida votes in the 2004 US Presidential elections.

All in all one of the worst if not the worst US Presidents in History, a shameful period for America, as he left America a much worse place than he found it.

[arista]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/07/syrian-rebels-homs-evacuation

The Rebals leave after losing


Reported on Ch4News tonight

[Nedusa]

The rebels are losing because the west has come to it's senses and after the UK govt decided not to get involved militarily the writing was on the wall.

But more importantly when it was disclosed to the world that the US was covertly supporting the very terrorists it had been fighting in Iraq & Libya ie (Al-Queda) the shock and indignation from vast swathes of the American middle classes, this support had to stop.

It has since stopped and the remaining FSA and other terrorists factions have no chance of gaining any sort of victory and in fact will soon be expelled from all Syrian territory.

Also Assad has been receiving additional help from Russia in the form of Arms and logistical support since Putin is furious with the US for it's actions in precipitating the Ukraine crisis.