19 year old 'fare dodger' thrown off train by passenger after refusing to leave

[Jack_]

eKKADFIEX84

This video is doing the rounds at the minute...just wondering what everyone's opinions on it is?

[Smithy]

he was a bit rough, but if he hadn't paid then he shouldn't have been on the train, seems pretty simple to me

[Pyramid*]

For all the people who moan about the price of public transport - it's arseholes like this to blame.

Loads of people get away with fare dodging - this guy got caught - he should have had the sense to take it on the chin and left when he was asked to.

The Scots don't put up with this pish - and it was nice to see a more younger guy helping out the older conductor - who was only doing his job but had a young yob thinking he was some sort of hard man, cursing away at the old guy. He showed him no respect - so the other passenger gave the gobsh*te as dose of his own 'no respect' medicine.

Good on the big guy.

[Ramsay]

I dont think yer man should of interfered
Defo too rough .didnt even let him pick up his things from the train
It was dark who knows what the kid is going through he mightnt of been able to afford the train who knows
and the fact the people are clapping after witnessing the bigger fella bully the smaller dude off is retarded

[Mystic Mock]

I dont think yer man should of interfered
Defo too rough .didnt even let him pick up his things from the train
It was dark who knows what the kid is going through he mightnt of been able to afford the train who knows

Why did he go on the train then if he cant afford it? theres no excuses imo.

[Roy Mars III]

What a prick. He basically mauled the kid off the bus.

[Smithy]

Why did he go on the train then if he cant afford it?

exactly, I can't afford a Lamborghini, but that doesn't mean I take one from the sales room

[Roy Mars III]

He never should have gotten on, but he shouldn't have been thrown off like that. And the guy shouldn't have gotten applause for doing it.

[Ramsay]

Why did he go on the train then if he cant afford it? theres no excuses imo.

Maybe it was his only way home
We dont know him none of us do
We're all so quick to judge him based on a 2 min clip
We have no idea what he could be going through..for all we know maybe it was a huge misunderstanding , maybe he did have a right ticket but the old guy was getting it wrong..anyway they should of just let the police handle it not some big guy who thinks hes tough

[arista]

he was a bit rough, but if he hadn't paid then he shouldn't have been on the train, seems pretty simple to me



Yes it was on Ch4News

The Punk would not move as the Rail Man was real old.


So Well Done to the Public Big Bloke
who chucked the Stinking Punk Off the Train.


Justice.

[Jack_]

Still no excuse for this so-called 'big man' to use physical force against him though. Yeah, I'm not denying the 19 year old was clearly in the wrong, but if he needed to be removed then it should have been up to the relevant authorities to do that, not some passenger on a train who thinks he can take matters into his own hands in to be honest, what looks like an attempt to show off to everybody else on the train.

At the end of the day the 19 year old didn't exert any physical force or violence himself and so the 'big man' had no right to either...and the use of bad language doesn't automatically mean you can do that either, they're not on the same level at all. Oh, and the applause was totally pathetic.

Both are in the wrong here if you ask me.

[Mystic Mock]

The applause was the right thing to do as these bastards need to learn there place,and the way some people are going on you would think that the 19 year old was beaten black and blue.

[Doogle]

To be honest I strongly disagree with dodging the fares. There's no reason to do it. Sure he may not have had money and maybe if I was desperate to get home or something I may have acted the same way he did and boarded the train anyway. Even so though, we all have to pay and if someone does it they should be punished. If I did it I'd feel forever guilty about it. I know so many people don't though. I'm not sure what to think of the applause but I do think he had it coming.

My friend has dodged fares before and it's just as bad as any type of theft, and I was disgusted with him. It's bad because so many people don't get caught.

[Pyramid*]

I dont think yer man should of interfered
Defo too rough .didnt even let him pick up his things from the train
It was dark who knows what the kid is going through he mightnt of been able to afford the train who knows
and the fact the people are clapping after witnessing the bigger fella bully the smaller dude off is retarded

He never should have gotten on, but he shouldn't have been thrown off like that. And the guy shouldn't have gotten applause for doing it.

Still no excuse for this so-called 'big man' to use physical force against him though. Yeah, I'm not denying the 19 year old was clearly in the wrong, but if he needed to be removed then it should have been up to the relevant authorities to do that, not some passenger on a train who thinks he can take matters into his own hands in to be honest, what looks like an attempt to show off to everybody else on the train.

At the end of the day the 19 year old didn't exert any physical force or violence himself and so the 'big man' had no right to either...and the use of bad language doesn't automatically mean you can do that either, they're not on the same level at all. Oh, and the applause was totally pathetic.

Both are in the wrong here if you ask me.


He was asked by the conductor to remove himself. Several times.

The gobsh*te was rude and verbally abusive.

If you listen to the vid, there are others who are expressing their displeasure and backing up the conductor.

Moral of the story is: If you want to fare dodge and get caught - don't be dickhead about it.....otherwise you'll find the ones who DO PAY will make sure you get turfed out.

He could have left of his own volition. He chose not to. Therefore he was removed - by force as he was unwilling to leave through choice.

Not a thing wrong here.

This country is too soft with this type of yob - that's the problem.

[Jordan.]

People had places to be and he wasn't going to move so fair enough chucking him out on his arse.

[Ramsay]

But we dont know if the kid was in the wrong at all
If i was him and i bought a ticket and was accused of trying to get a free ride i wouldnt leave, i'd tell the old guy to **** off and stay where i am
For all we know thats what happened and this big ****er thinks its his place to physically throw the kid out and then gets APPLAUDED makes me sick
It could just be a huge misunderstanding and at the end of the day they should of let the proper authorities deal with it

[Samuel.]

Yeah he was a bit rough, but no harm was done.

He should have just left the train, I'm not sure what he was expecting to happen. Especially his attempt at getting back on.

[Ramsay]

He should have just left the train, I'm not sure what he was expecting to happen. Especially his attempt at getting back on.

Probably to get the stuff he had that was left behind the big **** didnt seem to give him a chance at all

[Jack_]

He was asked by the conductor to remove himself. Several times.

The gobsh*te was rude and verbally abusive.

If you listen to the vid, there are others who are expressing their displeasure and backing up the conductor.

Moral of the story is: If you want to fare dodge and get caught - don't be dickhead about it.....otherwise you'll find the ones who DO PAY will make sure you get turfed out.

He could have left of his own volition. He chose not to. Therefore he was removed - by force as he was unwilling to leave through choice.

Not a thing wrong here.

This country is too soft with this type of yob - that's the problem.

Just because he may have spouted some verbal abuse (which if you ask me is stretching that term a bit far, he swore a few times), that doesn't mean someone else can use physical abuse to remove him (again that'd be stretching that term too, physical force more like). The two don't go together and since the guy was never once violent, there is no excuse for anyone else to be violent (of the sort) towards him, other than any relevant authorities that have that power.

He wasn't just escorted out either, the guy dragged and hurled him out, which is totally unnecessary and there's no excuse for it.

An annoyance or not, you don't take things into your own hands - it is none of your business.

[Pyramid*]

The applause was the right thing to do as these bastards need to learn there place,and the way some people are going on you would think that the 19 year old was beaten black and blue.

To be honest I strongly disagree with dodging the fares. There's no reason to do it. Sure he may not have had money and maybe if I was desperate to get home or something I may have acted the same way he did and boarded the train anyway. Even so though, we all have to pay and if someone does it they should be punished. If I did it I'd feel forever guilty about it. I know so many people don't though. I'm not sure what to think of the applause but I do think he had it coming.

My friend has dodged fares before and it's just as bad as any type of theft, and I was disgusted with him. It's bad because so many people don't get caught.


Absolutely agree.

If everyone who used trains dodged fare paying - then the train companies would go bust....... then the ones on here who think it's was OTT would be moaning the lack of pubic train services.

[Roy Mars III]

The guy could have taken the kid off the train much gentler instead of just mauling him off.

At least give the kid his stuff

[Locke.]

Haven't paid for the train in years, it is all about bunking

[Pyramid*]

Just because he may have spouted some verbal abuse (which if you ask me is stretching that term a bit far, he swore a few times), that doesn't mean someone else can use physical abuse to remove him (again that'd be stretching that term too, physical force more like). The two don't go together and since the guy was never once violent, there is no excuse for anyone else to be violent (of the sort) towards him, other than any relevant authorities that have that power.

He wasn't just escorted out either, the guy dragged and hurled him out, which is totally unnecessary and there's no excuse for it.

An annoyance or not, you don't take things into your own hands - it is none of your business.


Actually Jack, it is MY business: even though I wasn't even on the train. Monies from train fares are liable for taxation, which hits the public purse. If those monies are depleted due to arseholes like this guy: the defecit has to be made up from some other sector. In effect: we ALL pay it.

How much of your hard earned wages go into the pubic purse...... ;)

[Mystic Mock]

But we dont know if the kid was in the wrong at all
If i was him and i bought a ticket and was accused of trying to get a free ride i wouldnt leave, i'd tell the old guy to **** off and stay where i am
For all we know thats what happened and this big ****er thinks its his place to physically throw the kid out and then gets APPLAUDED makes me sick
It could just be a huge misunderstanding and at the end of the day they should of let the proper authorities deal with it

I think if he really did pay the fare then it would have been found out before him being chucked off the train.

[Jack_]

then the ones on here who think it's was OTT would be moaning the lack of pubic train services.

Considering I've already stated once in this thread that I don't for one second agree with fare dodging, that is complete and utter bull****.

Fare dodging is theft and it annoys me, however hauling a 19 year old out of a train when he wasn't violent towards anyone himself is uncalled for. It didn't concern him and not only that, as Karl has already mentioned, who is to say the 'fare dodger' was completely in the wrong? Without the full story he has even less of a right to take matters into his own hands.

Just because I don't agree with what the 'big man' in this video did, it doesn't mean I agree with fare dodging. Alright?

[Ramsay]

I think if he really did pay the fare then it would have been found out before him being chucked off the train.
I dont think so it seemed to escalated pretty quickly

[Samuel.]

But we dont know if the kid was in the wrong at all
If i was him and i bought a ticket and was accused of trying to get a free ride i wouldnt leave, i'd tell the old guy to **** off and stay where i am
For all we know thats what happened and this big ****er thinks its his place to physically throw the kid out and then gets APPLAUDED makes me sick
It could just be a huge misunderstanding and at the end of the day they should of let the proper authorities deal with it

Even if he had bought the wrong ticket (a single instead of a return by the sounds of it), he should have still left the train in that situation. Being stubborn like that, holding up hundreds of passengers and potentially other trains is selfish no matter how you look at it, even if there was a misunderstanding. Sort it out off the train, and then get the next one. Even if he had to be somewhere, he had to get that train, I'm willing to bet collectively the other people's journey was a lot more important than his own.

[Mystic Mock]

Considering I've already stated once in this thread that I don't for one second agree with fare dodging, that is complete and utter bull****.

Fare dodging is theft and it annoys me, however hauling a 19 year old out of a train when he wasn't violent towards anyone himself is uncalled for. It didn't concern him and not only that, as Karl has already mentioned, who is to say the 'fare dodger' was completely in the wrong? Without the full story he has even less of a right to take matters into his own hands.

Just because I don't agree with what the 'big man' in this video did, it doesn't mean I agree with fare dodging. Alright?

The fare dodger must have been in the wrong as everybody else on the train was siding with the big man.

[Pyramid*]

Considering I've already stated once in this thread that I don't for one second agree with fare dodging, that is complete and utter bull****.

Fare dodging is theft and it annoys me, however hauling a 19 year old out of a train when he wasn't violent towards anyone himself is uncalled for. It didn't concern him and not only that, as Karl has already mentioned, who is to say the 'fare dodger' was completely in the wrong? Without the full story he has even less of a right to take matters into his own hands.

Just because I don't agree with what the 'big man' in this video did, it doesn't mean I agree with fare dodging. Alright?

It's my opinion - and it's not bullsh*t.

The laddo was asked to remove himself, and get off the train numerous times. He choose not to. He was then assisted in leaving by force. Not a thing wrong with that. Alright.

[Jack_]

Actually Jack, it is MY business: even though I wasn't even on the train. Monies from train fares are liable for taxation, which hits the public purse. If those monies are depleted due to arseholes like this guy: the defecit has to be made up from some other sector. In effect: we ALL pay it.

How much of your hard earned wages go into the pubic purse...... ;)

The words 'straw' and 'clutching' come to mind, seems like a pretty indirect way of saying it is your business to me.

Once again, I don't agree with fare dodging, but the man who seems to think he can take matters into his own hands is also in the wrong. Because no, it isn't any of his business...it is the business of the relevant authorities that would deal with the case properly. Had that have been the case, chances are the 19 year old would have had to have paid up anyway, all that without having been unnecessarily hauled off a train by a fellow customer in the meantime.

[Ramsay]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073660/Big-Man-Scotrail-ticket-video-Alan-Pollock-throws-fare-dodger-Sam-Main-train.html

Seems it was just a misunderstanding
The kid was half asleep and handed him the wrong ticket it seems and **** got way out of hand way too fast

[Pyramid*]

The fare dodger must have been in the wrong as everybody else on the train was siding with the big man.

Yes, everyone who had paid their way.

Unfortunately, it's ones like this guy that give others in their generation a bad name.

I'd love to a return ticket to the Maldives - so in effect, I should only buy a one way ticket and sneak my way back home again and not be expected to leave the plane when I'm requested to do so but should be allowed to remain in my seat until we reach the return destination. It's exactly the same thing this guy was wanting to get away with only on a grander scale.

*looks out holiday clothes, packs suitcase, orders one way flight*

[Pyramid*]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073660/Big-Man-Scotrail-ticket-video-Alan-Pollock-throws-fare-dodger-Sam-Main-train.html

Seems it was just a misunderstanding
The kid was half asleep and handed him the wrong ticket it seems and **** got way out of hand way too fast

That's no ones fault but his. How do you know it got out of hand way too fast...... judging by other people's voices and irritation I doubt it. Also as Jordan pointed out: trains have timetable to stick to, other passengers have places to go, to be at, to arrive at on time. One hears the public moan and bitch about trains being late, appointments missed etc: well you have guys like this idiot to thank for holding up train journeys.


You go into any train station and onto any train and it tells you to have your ticket ready for inspection.

He didn't. Couldn't provide it - he'll learn.

[Jack_]

It's my opinion - and it's not bullsh*t.

Yes it is bull****, because you said that anybody in this thread moaning about how 'OTT' it was (which I am one of), would moan about the lack of public train services, implying that I am perfectly alright with his fare dodging which would lead to that eventual consequence.

However, since I stated in my second post in this thread that I didn't agree with the fare dodging, I am quite obviously not alright with it. And I stated that in this thread, which was clear for you to read before you assumed that I, amongst others who objected the 'big mans' actions, would moan about the lack of public train services.

So yes. Yes it is bull****.

The laddo was asked to remove himself, and get off the train numerous times. He choose not to. He was then assisted in leaving by force. Not a thing wrong with that. Alright.

The guy himself didn't once use physical force towards anybody though, and so the 'big man' had even less of a right intervening with physical force. There is no excuse whatsoever for unnecessary displays of physical force/violence, unless used in self defence or in extreme cases.

[Ramsay]

So its his fault he was half asleep and gave the man the wrong ticket which he thought was the right one..yeah of course its his fault..of course people dont ever make mistakes

[Pyramid*]

The words 'straw' and 'clutching' come to mind, seems like a pretty indirect way of saying it is your business to me.

Once again, I don't agree with fare dodging, but the man who seems to think he can take matters into his own hands is also in the wrong. Because no, it isn't any of his business...it is the business of the relevant authorities that would deal with the case properly. Had that have been the case, chances are the 19 year old would have had to have paid up anyway, all that without having been unnecessarily hauled off a train by a fellow customer in the meantime.


No indirect insult to you at all.

I'm sure when you've worked nearly 30 years, paying through the nose in taxes - you'll have a better understanding of why people were so pissed off at this guy.

That's not an insult Jack, that's pretty much fact.

[Ramsay]

The dude was obviously drunk if he was out celebrating so it was just a big misunderstanding
Can we all just leave it at that?

[Pyramid*]

Yes it is bull****, because you said that anybody in this thread moaning about how 'OTT' it was (which I am one of), would moan about the lack of public train services, implying that I am perfectly alright with his fare dodging which would lead to that eventual consequence.

However, since I stated in my second post in this thread that I didn't agree with the fare dodging, I am quite obviously not alright with it. And I stated that in this thread, which was clear for you to read before you assumed that I, amongst others who objected the 'big mans' actions, would moan about the lack of public train services.

So yes. Yes it is bull****.



The guy himself didn't once use physical force towards anybody though, and so the 'big man' had even less of a right intervening with physical force. There is no excuse whatsoever for unnecessary displays of physical force/violence, unless used in self defence or in extreme cases.

I LOVE the way you give it the big dramatics........ you'd think the guy had been kicked up and down the passageway the way you're going on.

You're just annoyed because some people aren't agreeing with you. C'est la vie.

[King Gizzard]

Big Man :worship:

[Jack_]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073660/Big-Man-Scotrail-ticket-video-Alan-Pollock-throws-fare-dodger-Sam-Main-train.html

Seems it was just a misunderstanding
The kid was half asleep and handed him the wrong ticket it seems and **** got way out of hand way too fast

Knew it wouldn't be completely one-sided, as not many things are. If this does happen to be true the 'big man' in question should be forced to apologise, compensate and then be banned from using train services on the ScotRail network.

The same should happen in reverse to the 19 year old if it doesn't turn out to be true.

[Pyramid*]

The dude was obviously drunk if he was out celebrating so it was just a big misunderstanding
Can we all just leave it at that?

Great. I'm going to go out tonight, get plastered then sneak my way into the local Mercedes garage, get myself a comfy seat in the latest convertible model: and when I'm asked to remove myself - I'll kick up hell, curse the person asking me to leave.......... and then expect everyone to feel sorry for me.

[Pyramid*]

Knew it wouldn't be completely one-sided, as not many things are. If this does happen to be true the 'big man' in question should be forced to apologise, compensate and then be banned from using train services on the ScotRail network.

The same should happen in reverse to the 19 year old if it doesn't turn out to be true.

guess you are ignoring the fact that tickets have to be made readily available for inspection...... and you're ignoring the fact that yobbo was unable to produce something he said he had paid for.

How convenient.

I'd like you to try that one out when your in a shop - pay cash for goods, and then continue to stay in that shop. You get pulled over for shoplifting and cannot find your receipt. Let's see how you get on.

;)

[Ninastar]

Meh, he deserved it

[Jack_]

No indirect insult to you at all.

I'm sure when you've worked nearly 30 years, paying through the nose in taxes - you'll have a better understanding of why people were so pissed off at this guy.

That's not an insult Jack, that's pretty much fact.

I understand that (I'm sure you'll say I won't, but hopefully you understand what I mean) and I don't take it as an insult, but my point is - no matter how pissed off you may feel, and no matter how much you may think it concerns you, it does not. It's the duty of the relevant authorities, not regular folk who think they can step in and act as security.

I LOVE the way you give it the big dramatics........ you'd think the guy had been kicked up and down the passageway the way you're going on.

You're just annoyed because some people aren't agreeing with you. C'est la vie.

You're making no sense. And you've also avoided the part where I responded to your assumptions that I would in future complain about the lack of train services, why is that?

I am annoyed because you made an assumption about a group of people that included me, even though I clearly stated in numerous posts in this thread that I didn't agree with fare dodging. You saw that, yet continued to make an assumption which implied that I had no problem with it. Now that is what I have a problem with - you making assumptions when I had already stated differently loud and clear several times. It's beyond irritating.

[Shaun]

Surely that'd technically get classed as assault?

[Pyramid*]

So its his fault he was half asleep and gave the man the wrong ticket which he thought was the right one..yeah of course its his fault..of course people dont ever make mistakes

PMSL. Whose fault then do you think it was..... Yours? Jacks? Anyone elses fault apart from the guy himself!! :D :D

[Pyramid*]

I understand that (I'm sure you'll say I won't, but hopefully you understand what I mean) and I don't take it as an insult, but my point is - no matter how pissed off you may feel, and no matter how much you may think it concerns you, it does not. It's the duty of the relevant authorities, not regular folk who think they can step in and act as security.



You're making no sense. And you've also avoided the part where I responded to your assumptions that I would in future complain about the lack of train services, why is that?

I am annoyed because you made an assumption about a group of people that included me, even though I clearly stated in numerous posts in this thread that I didn't agree with fare dodging. You saw that, yet continued to make an assumption which implied that I had no problem with it. Now that is what I have a problem with - you making assumptions when I had already stated differently loud and clear several times. It's beyond irritating.

I disagree with you. Be annoyed all you want. That's your right.

[Jack_]

guess you are ignoring the fact that tickets have to be made readily available for inspection...... and you're ignoring the fact that yobbo was unable to produce something he said he had paid for.

How convenient.

I'd like you to try that one out when your in a shop - pay cash for goods, and then continue to stay in that shop. You get pulled over for shoplifting and cannot find your receipt. Let's see how you get on.

;)

No, but as someone's already mentioned in this thread...we all make mistakes, and falling asleep on public transport is certainly not uncommon. But of course you've never made a mistake have you? Forgot about that...

I don't really understand your example completely, because if I couldn't find my receipt, and I'd lost it, I would find it extremely rude if somebody automatically assumed I was therefore some sort of thief, calling me one and hauling me out of the shop instead of giving me the benefit of the doubt until it was investigated properly. Jumping to conclusions is what it would be called. Innocent until proven guilty, no? That's if I've understood your example correctly.

[Ramsay]

Great. I'm going to go out tonight, get plastered then sneak my way into the local Mercedes garage, get myself a comfy seat in the latest convertible model: and when I'm asked to remove myself - I'll kick up hell, curse the person asking me to leave.......... and then expect everyone to feel sorry for me.

You're not getting my point IMO its just a misunderstanding and he actually did have a ticket he just didnt show the old fella the right one

PMSL. Whose fault then do you think it was..... Yours? Jacks? Anyone elses fault apart from the guy himself!! :D :D

Again you're not getting what im saying..its nobodys fault its a mistake
Whatever ...in a few days hopefully everyone will know the truth
If the kid was in the wrong the whole time he should of left and he should apologise as should Big Man
If the kid was in the right the ticket dude should get fired and Big Man sued to ****

[Jack_]

Surely that'd technically get classed as assault?

Hopefully, because it is a form of one.

I disagree with you.

Elaborate. Because making assumptions about someone when they've already clearly stated an opinion that would immediately disprove those assumptions is extremely rude.

[Pyramid*]

No, but as someone's already mentioned in this thread...we all make mistakes, and falling asleep on public transport is certainly not uncommon. But of course you've never made a mistake have you? Forgot about that...

I don't really understand your example completely, because if I couldn't find my receipt, and I'd lost it, I would find it extremely rude if somebody automatically assumed I was therefore some sort of thief, calling me one and hauling me out of the shop instead of giving me the benefit of the doubt until it was investigated properly. Jumping to conclusions is what it would be called. Innocent until proven guilty, no? That's if I've understood your example correctly.

Oh I make mistakes. Difference is, I try to learn from them. ;)

it's not rocket science. You buy a train ticket, have it to hand ready for inspection. Therefore he WAS guilty of not being able to do so. Of that it is very clear to see. ;)

if you cannot producesaid ticket when asked - don't act like a smart arse, don't be a gobshi*te about it, don't curse and swear when you are asked to produce said ticket, and don't get a smarearse when you are asked to got off the train...... : Instead.... learn from your mistakes.

As I said earlier, it's guys like this teenage yobbo, that give others in their generation a bad name.

[Pyramid*]

No, but as someone's already mentioned in this thread...we all make mistakes, and falling asleep on public transport is certainly not uncommon. But of course you've never made a mistake have you? Forgot about that...

I don't really understand your example completely, because if I couldn't find my receipt, and I'd lost it, I would find it extremely rude if somebody automatically assumed I was therefore some sort of thief, calling me one and hauling me out of the shop instead of giving me the benefit of the doubt until it was investigated properly. Jumping to conclusions is what it would be called. Innocent until proven guilty, no? That's if I've understood your example correctly.

Oh I make mistakes. Difference is, I try to learn from them. ;)

it's not rocket science. You buy a train ticket, have it to hand ready for inspection. Therefore he WAS guilty of not being able to do so. Of that it is very clear to see. ;)

if you cannot produce said ticket when asked - don't act like a smart arse, don't be a gobshi*te about it, don't curse and swear when you are asked to produce said ticket, and don't get a smarearse when you are asked to got off the train...... : Instead.... learn from your mistakes.

As I said earlier, it's guys like this teenage yobbo, that give others in their generation a bad name.

[joeysteele]

You do have to have your ticket ready for inspection at all times travelling on train or bus, so the lad should have made sure he had that.

I am with Snowball(Pyramid*) and Bethlehem(Jedward fever), on this issue totally.

[Pyramid*]

You're not getting my point IMO its just a misunderstanding and he actually did have a ticket he just didnt show the old fella the right one



Again you're not getting what im saying..its nobodys fault its a mistake
Whatever ...in a few days hopefully everyone will know the truth
If the kid was in the wrong the whole time he should of left and he should apologise as should Big Man
If the kid was in the right the ticket dude should get fired and Big Man sued to ****


You have no relevant point imo.

The guy was unable to produce, when asked, his ticket.

That IS his fault. HIS alone.

The Big Man did the right thing. Anyone being abusive, verbally or otherwise, and failing to comply with the regulations of said train company upon which all passengers are expected to adhere to (which yobba was failing to do), and abusing and employee of the company, quite simply deserved what he got.

I'm so glad I live in Scotland - at least we don't put up with this kind of pish as I said earlier and don't take the nambie pampie approach.

I bet yer laddo will make sure he's always got his ticket to hand in the future. That, my friend, is called learning his lesson. ;)

[Ramsay]

You have no relevant point imo.

The guy was unable to produce, when asked, his ticket.

That IS his fault. HIS alone.

The Big Man did the right thing. Anyone being abusive, verbally or otherwise, and failing to comply with the regulations of said train company upon which all passengers are expected to adhere to (which yobba was failing to do), and abusing and employee of the company, quite simply deserved what he got.

I'm so glad I live in Scotland - at least we don't put up with this kind of pish as I said earlier and don't take the nambie pampie approach.

I bet yer laddo will make sure he's always got his ticket to hand in the future. That, my friend, is called learning his lesson. ;)

The kid says in the video that hes given the old guy the ticket he says ''IVE GIVEN YOU THE ****ING TICKET'' ... he thinks hes given him the right one but it obviously wasent and if i was him and i was accused of doing something that i didnt do i'd be pissed off and give out if i was asked to leave the train for which i paid for..
like i said before everyone is so quick to judge him based on a 2 minute clip..wait until all the facts are out before jumping to conclusions
innocent until proven guilty

[Pyramid*]

Surely that'd technically get classed as assault?
Nope.

He was asked to leave, he was unable to provide proof of payment for his journey. He was unable to.

He became verbally abusive to an employee of the rail company. He also failed to follow the request of an employee who is there to enforce the conditions of passenger carriage for the rail company. It is therefore fine that he was removed from said train, with force if he refused to leave. That is ALL that happened.

No assault on the yobbo.

[Pyramid*]

The kid says in the video that hes given the old guy the ticket he says ''IVE GIVEN YOU THE ****ING TICKET'' ... he thinks hes given him the right one but it obviously wasent and if i was him and i was accused of doing something that i didnt do i'd be pissed off and give out if i was asked to leave the train for which i paid for..
like i said before everyone is so quick to judge him based on a 2 minute clip..wait until all the facts are out before jumping to conclusions
innocent until proven guilty

A 19 year old is regarded as an adult. Not a kid.

He gives the conductor an invalid ticket: therefore when he states (abusively) that "''IVE GIVEN YOU THE ****ING TICKET'' - yobbo was WRONG. The only guilty one is the yobbo who was unable to produce something he was asked for as proof of payment.

Simple.

[joeysteele]

A 19 year old is regarded as an adult. Not a kid.

He gives the conductor an invalid ticket: therefore when he states (abusively) that "''IVE GIVEN YOU THE ****ING TICKET'' - yobbo was WRONG.

Simple.

He was totally in the wrong and invited more trouble for himself by refusing to leave and 'not' presenting a valid ticket either.

[Ramsay]

A 19 year old is regarded as an adult. Not a kid.

He gives the conductor an invalid ticket: therefore when he states (abusively) that "''IVE GIVEN YOU THE ****ING TICKET'' - yobbo was WRONG. The only guilty one is the yobbo who was unable to produce something he was asked for as proof of payment.

Simple.

I know he's an adult its just easier to call him 'kid' instead of 'the 19 year old'
Are you not listening to what im saying?
If what the kid is saying is true , at the time he thought he gave him the right ticket but the conducter wasent having any of it..anyone in his position would get pissed off especially if he was woken up because of it
Yes he was wrong butnI think its just a honest mistake and thats that

[Shaun]

Nope.

He was asked to leave, he was unable to provide proof of payment for his journey. He was unable to.

He became verbally abusive to an employee of the rail company. He also failed to follow the request of an employee who is there to enforce the conditions of passenger carriage for the rail company. It is therefore fine that he was removed from said train, with force if he refused to leave. That is ALL that happened.

No assault on the yobbo.

Not by the other passenger who threw him off, he wasn't. He was basically acting as a vigilante, and whilst I understand the frustrations of the other passengers with the kid for holding up their journey, they have no right whatsoever to use any kind of physical force on him, let alone that much. In fact he literally jumps at the chance: "Do you want me to get him off the train?" he doesn't even ask the kid to move, just grabs him.

[MTVN]

A couple of weeks back I missed my train, got on a different one at a different time going to a different place, used my old ticket and the conductor couldn't care less, this guy seems like the annoying kind of person who takes a really menial job far too seriously. I didn't real all 3 pages but it does seem a bit harsh to me, but then I've also had it where my train got delayed for half an hour because some stupid woman got on as it was leaving and she didn't have a ticket but went and locked herself in the toilet, wouldn't have minded seeing her chucked off :nono:

[Mystic Mock]

Bloody hell why do some people on here always want to take the soft lefty apporach? the guy didnt show the ticket to the conductor so its not anybodys fault really as they assumed he hadnt got his ticket,while the 19 year old made a mistake with the ticket,but the 19 year old did start to disrupt the train so I can understand why they chucked him off the train.

[Shaun]

It's always annoying when there's no conductor to check your ticket... you just think you could have saved the money :(

[Pyramid*]

I know he's an adult its just easier to call him 'kid' instead of 'the 19 year old'
Are you not listening to what im saying?
If what the kid is saying is true , at the time he thought he gave him the right ticket but the conducter wasent having any of it..anyone in his position would get pissed off especially if he was woken up because of it
Yes he was wrong butnI think its just a honest mistake and thats that

No, it makes it 'sound' better to call him a kid..... because it gives a very false impression.

The conductor is paid to do a job. He was doing it.

The yobbo boyo couldn't do something more simple: show the ticket.

His fault. End of.

[Ramsay]

Innocent until proven guilty. End of.

[Shaun]

Bloody hell why do some people on here always want to take the soft lefty apporach?

oh lord are we really resorting to Daily Mail speak? (i'm aware this is a comment of the exact same calibre)

so I can understand why they chucked him off the train.

they, however, should have been the police or transport security, not a total random passenger, that's the only point I'm making. I'd totally understand if the film was of him being physically removed by police, but it's the fact that it's someone with no legal position to do it that's (obviously.... sometimes I feel like I'm arguing with kindergarten children) unjust.

[MTVN]

It's always annoying when there's no conductor to check your ticket... you just think you could have saved the money :(

Yeah I always think that, I reckon a lot of the time if you're only going one stop you can easily get away without needing a ticket unless you're in a coach near to where the conductor comes out

[Shaun]

They usually only come up and down (depending on how many carriages there are, too) once every 4 stops in my experience, and that's the most frequent.

[Pyramid*]

A couple of weeks back I missed my train, got on a different one at a different time going to a different place, used my old ticket and the conductor couldn't care less, this guy seems like the annoying kind of person who takes a really menial job far too seriously. I didn't real all 3 pages but it does seem a bit harsh to me, but then I've also had it where my train got delayed for half an hour because some stupid woman got on as it was leaving and she didn't have a ticket but went and locked herself in the toilet, wouldn't have minded seeing her chucked off :nono:

How utterly patronising.... at least the conductor is out earning a crust..... and most probably has been doing so all his working life. Unlike many others. I wonder what other jobs you regard as menial....... I think you will find that most people in menial jobs, actually keep this country running.........

Funny you moan all the same though when it affected you and you'd have been happy to see the woman who was on your train chucked off.

[MTVN]

How utterly patronising.... at least the conductor is out earning a crust..... and most probably has been doing so all his working life. Unlike many others. I wonder what other jobs you regard as menial....... I think you will find that most people in menial jobs, actually keep this country running.........

Funny you moan all the same though when it affected you and you'd have been happy to see the woman who was on your train chucked off.

Don't be silly, I love conductors.. when they don't take their jobs too seriously. In my case I had spent £30 for a ticket, I'm damned if I'm then going to splash out another £50 for another ticket for almost the same journey because I missed my train by literally 30 seconds, and the conductor recognised that and didn't have a problem. Those who actually enforce this "YOU MUST HAVE A VALID TICKET FOR THIS EXACT TIME" rule are assholes however.

And yes because she was delaying me and causing a racket :nono:

[GypsyGoth]

I'm glad he was thrown off.

[Livia]

But we dont know if the kid was in the wrong at all
If i was him and i bought a ticket and was accused of trying to get a free ride i wouldnt leave, i'd tell the old guy to **** off and stay where i am
For all we know thats what happened and this big ****er thinks its his place to physically throw the kid out and then gets APPLAUDED makes me sick
It could just be a huge misunderstanding and at the end of the day they should of let the proper authorities deal with it

Stop referring to him as a kid. He is a nineteen year old MAN.

What makes me sick are all the bleeding hearts, wringing their hands and boo hooing about a law breaker.

He was asked for his ticket, he produced a single for a return journey. Then he refused to get off. Why the hell should he get a free ride? If he's too stupid to get himself home he shouldn't have been out on his own. The onus is not on the conductor to prove he was fare dodging, it was on the passenger to produce his ticket. Public transport is not a charity, if he didn't have the fair he shouldn't have travelled, or found some other way of getting where he was going. It's what real people do.

The bloke who threw him off the train had paid and had to sit there while the train was stationary because the freeloading moron was refusing to get off.

Good on the bloke for chucking him off. If I'd been at work all day and had to wait for a freeloader, I'd have applauded him throwing him off too.

[Pyramid*]

Don't be silly, I love conductors.. when they don't take their jobs too seriously. In my case I had spent £30 for a ticket, I'm damned if I'm then going to splash out another £50 for another ticket for almost the same journey because I missed my train by literally 30 seconds, and the conductor recognised that and didn't have a problem. Those who actually enforce this "YOU MUST HAVE A VALID TICKET FOR THIS EXACT TIME" rule are assholes however.

And yes because she was delaying me and causing a racket :nono:

I'm not being silly.

This is what you stated.

this guy seems like the annoying kind of person who takes a really menial job far too seriously


What do you think his job is then?

What do you think the purpose is of a Train Conductor/Inspector is....... just wander up and down carriages to waste time and be paid for it?

Whether you regard his job as menial or otherwise far less whether you think he was taking it too seriously, THAT IS the man's job.The man WAS doing his job - the job he is paid to do.

[Ramsay]

Read over my other replies Livia i cant be arsed to start up debating all over again

[Black Dagger]

The twerp got what he deserved IMO.

If you don't pay, you don't get away.

[Livia]

Innocent until proven guilty. End of.

You are required to produce a valid ticket on demand. If you can't, you are the one that's breaking the rules. As you so eloquently put it... end of.

[MTVN]

I'm not being silly.

This is what you stated.


What do you think his job is then?

What do you think the purpose is of a Train Conductor/Inspector is....... just wander up and down carriages to waste time and be paid for it?

Whether you regard his job as menial or otherwise far less whether you think he was taking it too seriously, THAT IS the man's job.The man WAS doing his job - the job he is paid to do.

It is a menial job yes, unless you'd like to convince me otherwise?

And yes I understand IT IS HIS JOB, doesn't change my opinion, I'm entitled to my opinion Pyramid

[Tom4784]

I wonder if that bloke would have been so happy to intervene if the fare dodger was the same size as him? He came off as an arse and a bully really and I don't know why anyone would clap at seeing a larger man throw around a lad half his size. Says a lot about them.

The lad shouldn't have done what he did but that's not an excuse for some fat bloke in the midst of a mid life crisis to throw his weight about in a bad attempt to show off.

[Livia]

Read over my other replies Livia i cant be arsed to start up debating all over again

You say the same thing over and over. I'm the one who "can't be arsed".

[MTVN]

I don't believe I said you weren't entitled to your opinion.

I did however point out that that WAS exactly one of the roles in which he is expected to fulfill - in his 'menial' job.

At least the Conductor is still out earning a crust.... even in his advanced years. More than can be said of some of today's younger generation who haven't worked a day in their lives, quite happy to sign for their giro every 2 wks.... I wouldn't be surprised if the yobbo fell into that category tbh. Wouldn't surprise me at all.

Like I said I love conductors, never denied that they were "earning a crust" :thumbs:

[Pyramid*]

To be honest JF you were trying to use "lefty" in a derogative way as well. And anyway we're talking about a train journey here, hardly one of the great political issues of our time

So what if they were? Thatis (as you mentioned earlier to me), is JF's opinion and he (like you and any of us) is allowed to 'voice' that on here.

If people want to be offended because someone uses the term 'lefty' as not what they perceive to be the best way forward: that's their sujbective opinion. It is not necessarily fact.

[Pyramid*]

Like I said I love conductors, never denied that they were "earning a crust" :thumbs:

But you have some issue with people in menial jobs, doing the very job in which they are paid to do.... :thumbs:

[Mystic Mock]

It seems like you have created a popular talking point Jack.

[Locke.]

Time to make all public transport free

[Marc]

One of the best things I've seen in a long time! So worthy of being thrown off the train :D

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

i would have enjoyed that more if the guy who threw him off was attractive

also hes a dick everybody knows if you dont want to pay you hide in the toilets the ticket attendants rarely check them

[Josy]

The guy that interfered was far too rough, yeah the one that never had a ticket was in the wrong but that was between him and the conductor, no one else, just because he never had a ticket doesnt mean the other guy had a right to assault him, the conductor should have done his job properly and kept him on the train then radio through for the police to be waiting at the next station.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

preach josy the big guy wanted to look like some kind of hero bet he thought he was gonna get a pride of britain award and he just ended up looking like a **** and he nearly squashed that poor woman

[Shasown]

The guy that interfered was far too rough, yeah the one that never had a ticket was in the wrong but that was between him and the conductor, no one else, just because he never had a ticket doesnt mean the other guy had a right to assault him, the conductor should have done his job properly and kept him on the train then radio through for the police to be waiting at the next station.

Very true and the conductor should also have offered to allow the man to purchase a valid ticket or provide some acceptable form of ID in order for the company to send an invoice for the fare for the youth to pay at a convenient time (Thats part of the provisions Rail compainies must follow imposed when the network was sold off).

The passenger had no right to interfere or to manhandle the youth off the train, thats called vigilantism. Would have been funny if the youth had knocked him on his ass after fat man grabbed him, fat man would have had no comeback.

Even though the act was carried out apparently as a public spirited action, in order to help out the conductor and make sure people werent overly delayed because of the action of one numpty its still illegal.

[GypsyGoth]

The fare dodger wants us to argue.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

The fare dodger wants us to argue.

:joker::joker::joker:

[fruit_cake]

I always go in the car

[fruit_cake]

So you have no opinion then on the subject?:conf:

what Karl has said

[Benjamin]

Good, the little scumbag deserved it. All this molly coddling like 'oh he may have had his reasons for not paying', bull****. If you you can't afford the train don't get on it, simple as.

[Pyramid*]

Good, the little scumbag deserved it. All this molly coddling like 'oh he may have had his reasons for not paying', bull****. If you you can't afford the train don't get on it, simple as.


GOD has spoken.

I am in agreement with GOD.

Not much more to say.

[Benjamin]

I'm temporarily locking this and cleaning it up as some of the posts are way off topic.

[Benjamin]

Right, cleaned it up as best as I can whilst my internet is running slow. Please keep on topic everyone.

[Pyramid*]

Very true and the conductor should also have offered to allow the man to purchase a valid ticket or provide some acceptable form of ID in order for the company to send an invoice for the fare for the youth to pay at a convenient time (Thats part of the provisions Rail compainies must follow imposed when the network was sold off).

The passenger had no right to interfere or to manhandle the youth off the train, thats called vigilantism. Would have been funny if the youth had knocked him on his ass after fat man grabbed him, fat man would have had no comeback.

Even though the act was carried out apparently as a public spirited action, in order to help out the conductor and make sure people werent overly delayed because of the action of one numpty its still illegal.

We don't know if the conductor perhaps did offer the youth this option and that's where it began to kick off. The start of the clip seems to be whereby the 'discussion' has become a heated one.

For all we know, the conductor may have offered the guy the option and he told him to eff off that he had a ticket.....

[InOne]

Yes the guy was a twat but the "big man" took it too far. Don't get why this whole "lefty" argument is used, surely there is a limit to what is soft and what is not. The guy who chucked him off was just some thug and worse than the guy that didn't have a ticket. I hope he gets done for assault. If that's how they do it in Scotland thank god I don't live there.

[Pyramid*]

Yes the guy was a twat but the "big man" took it too far. Don't get why this whole "lefty" argument is used, surely there is a limit to what is soft and what is not. The guy who chucked him off was just some thug and worse than the guy that didn't have a ticket. I hope he gets done for assault. If that's how they do it in Scotland thank god I don't live there.

I'm thankful I do - having seen the other clip and stories & clips of late that appear to show those south of Scotland in a far worse light, and being dealt with in a far more nambie pampie, wrap people in cotton wool and allow them to do what they like attitude - yep I'm thankful for living in Scotland.

[InOne]

I'm thankful I do - having seen the other clip and stories & clips of late that appear to show those south of Scotland in a far worse light, and being dealt with in a far more nambie pampie, wrap people in cotton wool and allow them to do what they like attitude - yep I'm thankful for living in Scotland.

Do they not have the police in Scotland?

[Josy]

Conductors are trained to handle situations like that discreetly without involving any of the public, there was no need at all for any of the other passengers to get involved in that incident, the conductor could have walked away, used his radio to report it and then went about his work without holding up the train and the guy with no ticket would have been dealt with by the proper authorities at the next station, fair enough if you think interfering guy was in the right but to suggest that's the way it's done in Scotland is ridiculous, that makes it sound as if things like than happen here on a daily basis where in most cases that kind of thing would be sorted out through the proper channels.

[Vicky.]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073660/Big-Man-Scotrail-ticket-video-Alan-Pollock-throws-fare-dodger-Sam-Main-train.html

Seems it was just a misunderstanding
The kid was half asleep and handed him the wrong ticket it seems and **** got way out of hand way too fast

When reading this thread up til this point...I was thinking this might have been what happened. As this has happened to me before (though not half asleep...I was a bit drunk and gave the inspector a ticket that was like a week old :laugh: )

If some big dickhead who thought they were 20 men had tried to remove me with force...when I knew I had paid, they would have been eating the curb...

[Locke.]

Vicky I have a bit of a feeling you are a fellow bunker

[Pyramid*]

Do they not have the police in Scotland?

Why waste public funds .....when a good chuck out suffices?

[InOne]

Why waste public funds .....when a good chuck out suffices?

Because it's not very civil is it...

[Vicky.]

Nope.

He was asked to leave, he was unable to provide proof of payment for his journey. He was unable to.

He became verbally abusive to an employee of the rail company. He also failed to follow the request of an employee who is there to enforce the conditions of passenger carriage for the rail company. It is therefore fine that he was removed from said train, with force if he refused to leave. That is ALL that happened.

No assault on the yobbo.
Its not the place of some random guy thinking hes hard to do that though. So IMO it WOULD be classed as assault.

It would not be assault if the relevant authorities had done that, but some randomer...its a little different

[Pyramid*]

Conductors are trained to handle situations like that discreetly without involving any of the public, there was no need at all for any of the other passengers to get involved in that incident, the conductor could have walked away, used his radio to report it and then went about his work without holding up the train and the guy with no ticket would have been dealt with by the proper authorities at the next station, fair enough if you think interfering guy was in the right but to suggest that's the way it's done in Scotland is ridiculous, that makes it sound as if things like than happen here on a daily basis where in most cases that kind of thing would be sorted out through the proper channels.

There's me thinking Scots don't push up with shi*te like this, don't accept youngsters being verbally abusive to someone who is doing their job, that the Scots don't just stand back and let terrorists try to blow up Glasgow airport, andthey don't sit back and give idiots who create FB pages inciting riots & damage to buildings and civil servants just a wee slap on the wrist.

I must have got that wrong then eh?

[Vicky.]

I wonder if that bloke would have been so happy to intervene if the fare dodger was the same size as him? He came off as an arse and a bully really and I don't know why anyone would clap at seeing a larger man throw around a lad half his size. Says a lot about them.

The lad shouldn't have done what he did but that's not an excuse for some fat bloke in the midst of a mid life crisis to throw his weight about in a bad attempt to show off.

Yes...I highly doubt it somehow ;)

[Pyramid*]

Because it's not very civil is it...

you prefer social etiquette over wasteful use of public fundings then - that's fine, but I disagree.

Its not the place of some random guy thinking hes hard to do that though. So IMO it WOULD be classed as assault.

It would not be assault if the relevant authorities had done that, but some randomer...its a little different

The guy was unable to produce his ticket. He was asked repeatedly - and could not do so. He then proceeded to verbally abuse the conductor.

He was asked, repeatedly to remove himself and get off the train. He refused. His own actions led to him being removed. He created the situation.

I don't see the issue. The guy will no doubt have learned his lesson,

[Marsh.]

But we dont know if the kid was in the wrong at all
If i was him and i bought a ticket and was accused of trying to get a free ride i wouldnt leave, i'd tell the old guy to **** off and stay where i am
For all we know thats what happened and this big ****er thinks its his place to physically throw the kid out and then gets APPLAUDED makes me sick
It could just be a huge misunderstanding and at the end of the day they should of let the proper authorities deal with it

If the kid was at all right, he would have tried explaining himself instead of telling the conductor to f off. He sat there and refused to move after being asked several times. Therefore they had every right to physically remove him. Maybe it was wrong for a random passenger to do the heavy lifting, but he was helping out the older conductor guy.

The conductor had the ticket in his hand and was telling him he had paid one fair and not a return ticket. Pretty simple logic to me.

[Pyramid*]

Yes...I highly doubt it somehow ;)

Given that many others on the train were voicing the same opinion, and also that another man got up to keep the yobbo off the train and then got off himself: I suspect it if it had not been the man in question, it would have been someone else who would have taken the same action.

[Vicky.]

The guy that interfered was far too rough, yeah the one that never had a ticket was in the wrong but that was between him and the conductor, no one else, just because he never had a ticket doesnt mean the other guy had a right to assault him, the conductor should have done his job properly and kept him on the train then radio through for the police to be waiting at the next station.

Very true and the conductor should also have offered to allow the man to purchase a valid ticket or provide some acceptable form of ID in order for the company to send an invoice for the fare for the youth to pay at a convenient time (Thats part of the provisions Rail compainies must follow imposed when the network was sold off).

The passenger had no right to interfere or to manhandle the youth off the train, thats called vigilantism. Would have been funny if the youth had knocked him on his ass after fat man grabbed him, fat man would have had no comeback.

Even though the act was carried out apparently as a public spirited action, in order to help out the conductor and make sure people werent overly delayed because of the action of one numpty its still illegal.

Yup, exactly...to both.

I fail to see how people can think this idiot (the big bloke) was in the right by throwing his weight around...

[Benjamin]

If the kid was at all right, he would have tried explaining himself instead of telling the conductor to f off. He sat there and refused to move after being asked several times. Therefore they had every right to physically remove him. Maybe it was wrong for a random passenger to do the heavy lifting, but he was helping out the older conductor guy.

The conductor had the ticket in his hand and was telling him he had paid one fair and not a return ticket. Pretty simple logic to me.

Absolutely in agreement with this. People are getting soft too soft nowadays in my opinion and let the dregs of society rule them in fear of by actually doing something, something may happen back to them in return. We seem to be becoming a nation of pushover's.

[Josy]

There's me thinking Scots don't push up with shi*te like this, don't accept youngsters being verbally abusive to someone who is doing their job, that the Scots don't just stand back and let terrorists try to blow up Glasgow airport, andthey don't sit back and give idiots who create FB pages inciting riots & damage to buildings and civil servants just a wee slap on the wrist.

I must have got that wrong then eh?

Terrorists trying to blow up the airport and someone not having a train ticket are on 2 entirely different levels imo.

If the conductor had done his job properly in the first place we wouldnt even be having this discussion, and it's not about putting up with ****e it's about dealing with it properly.

I hope the guy that thought he was a big man gets done with assault.

[Pyramid*]

for those who go on about the laddo should have been allowed to get his bag and his stuff..... look at the clip again.... 1min 40sec.

A red haired person with a blue and white jacket - (check in the reflection in the window when he is being pushed towards the door) - he goes and lifts the laddo's bag, he then turns, follows them to the door & throws a black haversack bag out to the lad.

This is then confirmed by a female voice; when he complains about not having his bag telling him at 1min 55 secs that his back is ''out, it's out''

[Vicky.]

There's me thinking Scots don't push up with shi*te like this, don't accept youngsters being verbally abusive to someone who is doing their job, that the Scots don't just stand back and let terrorists try to blow up Glasgow airport, andthey don't sit back and give idiots who create FB pages inciting riots & damage to buildings and civil servants just a wee slap on the wrist.

I must have got that wrong then eh?

And scots also champion random assault do they?

This could...and should have been dealt with properly. Without some random thug throwing his weight around (and nearly squishing some poor woman and her kids D: ) and being applauded for it.

Not too sure how it is in scotland but I would think its the same as here...the conductor will have had his radio...could have called for security/police. But no. People think its ok for some random bloke to remove someone by force.

[MTVN]

I don't really see what the fact that he's Scottish has to do with anything, it's just a coincidence, not like Scotland naturally has tougher train conductors or anything

[Vicky.]

The guy was unable to produce his ticket. He was asked repeatedly - and could not do so. He then proceeded to verbally abuse the conductor.

He was asked, repeatedly to remove himself and get off the train. He refused. His own actions led to him being removed. He created the situation.

I don't see the issue. The guy will no doubt have learned his lesson,

And this has WHAT to do with the big guy?

Ah yeah, nothing. Just a chance to show off. Bravo you thug, bravo.

I dont disagree that he should have been removed (though he DID have a valid ticket, but could not produce...and there was no need for the swearing). It was just handled completely wrong.

[Pyramid*]

And scots also champion random assault do they?

This could...and should have been dealt with properly. Without some random thug throwing his weight around (and nearly squishing some poor woman and her kids D: ) and being applauded for it.

Not too sure how it is in scotland but I would think its the same as here...the conductor will have had his radio...could have called for security/police. But no. People think its ok for some random bloke to remove someone by force.

I'm quite happy with the way the matter was handled.

I'd far rather see this than having to call the police, to have the train and all it's passengers held up due to the actions of some drunken little twat - for the police to come and do exactly what the 'big man' did.

I see his father is lying in the papers about him not being allowed to get his backback/bag. It's very clearly seen in the video that it was taken and thown out - and even confirmed by another female voice.

Looks like his Daddy believes his lying son - given that the evidence is there for all to see.

What was this to do with teh 'big man'. the fact that he was a paying passenger. The fact that he did not want his journey delayed due to this arsehole? The fact that others on the train were voicing their own opinion that they weren't prepared to wait all night either .......

[Vicky.]

I'm quite happy with the way the matter was handled.


Oh well. That makes it all ok then.

Luckily most people dont agree with others being assaulted...its kind of against the law...more so I would imagine...than not having a valid train ticket :)

[Vicky.]

What was this to do with teh 'big man'. the fact that he was a paying passenger. The fact that he did not want his journey delayed due to this arsehole? The fact that others on the train were voicing their own opinion that they weren't prepared to wait all night either .......

Ahhh...this makes everything fine again then.

I will remember this next time Im in a bar and the person in front of me is taking ****ing ages to find their purse or something...I can just grab em and chuck them out of the door. After all, they are holding me up and others will be pissed off too, they may even be vocal about it. After all, I am a paying customer so I can do what I like :)

They wouldnt have had to wait all night if the conductor had actually done his job properly and just used his bloody radio :bored:

[Pyramid*]

Absolutely in agreement with this. People are getting soft too soft nowadays in my opinion and let the dregs of society rule them in fear of by actually doing something, something may happen back to them in return. We seem to be becoming a nation of pushover's.

Totally agree....

As it is it seems some here are happy to allow the drunks to do what the hell they want, be verbally abusive to who they want to, and go around telling lies to make their story sound better (ie: the guy lying that he wasn't allowed to get his backback/bag).

[Pyramid*]

Oh well. That makes it all ok then.

Luckily most people dont agree with others being assaulted...its kind of against the law...more so I would imagine...than not having a valid train ticket :)

Most people including me, do agree that assault should be punishable.

The boyo wasn't assaulted. he was removed from a train.

[InOne]

A minor incident that probably happens all the time shouldn't have lead to assault. Is this the society we really want to live in?

[Jack_]

I'm sorry but I'm still finding it hard to believe that anyone could condone the behaviour of this 'big man', I mean seriously it's just delusional.

There is no excuse for anybody other than senior relevant authorities to step in and use physical force to remove somebody from a certain situation, that is after all what they're employed for. It is nothing more than a pathetic attempt at showing off to other people. I've got news for you, and him - you are not security officers or the police force, you are regular people, customers of a train service, and you do not have any right whatsoever to intervene with issues that let's be honest, do not really concern you (no, being delayed is no excuse, as relevant authorities would still have sorted the problem), and you almost certainly do not have any right to use physical force against someone unless in self defence. Seeing as he didn't physically attack anyone at any point, and you are just a regular person, it is nothing to do with you, and that is that.

Innocent until proven guilty. No excuses for physical force/violence. Talk about sending the wrong message out...

[Vicky.]

Most people including me, do agree that assault should be punishable.

The boyo wasn't assaulted. he was removed from a train.

With way too much force, by a random person who had nothing to do with it all and was just trying to show off (IMO of course ;) )

[MTVN]

Most people including me, do agree that assault should be punishable.

The boyo wasn't assaulted. he was removed from a train.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/12/13/article-0-0F29A45700000578-497_306x423.jpg

[Pyramid*]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/12/13/article-0-0F29A45700000578-497_306x423.jpg


The guy states he had been out and drinking. is there proof that this is due to the train incident or perhaps he was that pissed, he fell on his way home on foot.

After all........ the guy LIES about not getting his bag back..... so I'll hazard a guess that this was not as a result of him being chucked off the train either.

That's the thing with liars MTVN....... tell one lie and get caught out; and it weakens anything else you say.

[Jordan.]

Why would he still have fresh blood on his face? must have got home quick.

[MTVN]

How do you know he lied about not getting his bag, why couldn't he have two bags, one of the might have been in the compartment or something?

[Pyramid*]

I'm sorry but I'm still finding it hard to believe that anyone could condone the behaviour of this 'big man', I mean seriously it's just delusional.

There is no excuse for anybody other than senior relevant authorities to step in and use physical force to remove somebody from a certain situation, that is after all what they're employed for. It is nothing more than a pathetic attempt at showing off to other people. I've got news for you, and him - you are not security officers or the police force, you are regular people, customers of a train service, and you do not have any right whatsoever to intervene with issues that let's be honest, do not really concern you (no, being delayed is no excuse, as relevant authorities would still have sorted the problem), and you almost certainly do not have any right to use physical force against someone unless in self defence. Seeing as he didn't physically attack anyone at any point, and you are just a regular person, it is nothing to do with you, and that is that.

Innocent until proven guilty. No excuses for physical force/violence. Talk about sending the wrong message out...

Really.... how does that work with bouncers then?

How does that work with people in pubs who have had one too many too drink, are becoming awkward, difficult and causing upset to other customers....... I know for absolute FACT ----- FACT, that the same type of 'Right, you're leaving NOW" and being man handled, takes place in pubs, clubs all over the UK night in, night out.

[Shasown]

We don't know if the conductor perhaps did offer the youth this option and that's where it began to kick off. The start of the clip seems to be whereby the 'discussion' has become a heated one.

For all we know, the conductor may have offered the guy the option and he told him to eff off that he had a ticket.....

Ah at last some common sense. Thats very true, nor do we know what excuses the youth gave, nor the conversation or tones of the conductor prior to whats shown on the clip.

There is lots we dont know.

But as admirable as you think the passenger who threw the youth off is, we do know he committed an assault on the youth. The only people allowed to "lay hands" on another person and physically remove them from a train are the police, transport police and duly authorised personnel in the execution of their duty.

This isnt a case of citizen's arrest. It is assault, pure and simple and as soon as some other numpty whispers the word compensation claim in the youths ear he will no doubt make a complaint. Such is life.

[Vicky.]

Really.... how does that work with bouncers then?

How does that work with people in pubs who have had one too many too drink, are becoming awkward, difficult and causing upset to other customers....... I know for absolute FACT ----- FACT, that the same type of 'Right, you're leaving NOW" and being man handled, takes place in pubs, clubs all over the UK night in, night out.

Bouncers are trained to do that though, it is their job to remove people from pubs and clubs.

It is not the job of random passengers on trains to act the big man and throw others off.

Jack did mention the 'relevant autorities'...in the case of bars and clubs...that would be the bouncers. And if things escalated too much, then the police.

[Pyramid*]

How do you know he lied about not getting his bag, why couldn't he have two bags, one of the might have been in the compartment or something?

Call it a very educated guess..... how many students go out for a night out on the razz and have several bags with them?

Who is to say that even IF he had a 2nd/3rd bag, that he didn;t leave it somewhere else and didn't even board the train with it....after all, he and daddy confess he was out on the schwally......... does things to your memory that, as well as your balance. ;)

[Jack_]

Really.... how does that work with bouncers then?

How does that work with people in pubs who have had one too many too drink, are becoming awkward, difficult and causing upset to other customers....... I know for absolute FACT ----- FACT, that the same type of 'Right, you're leaving NOW" and being man handled, takes place in pubs, clubs all over the UK night in, night out.

Am I seriously having to respond to this?

It works because bouncers are employed specifically with the job of removing people who are (or will start) causing trouble, using physical force if required. They are employed for that very reason. It is their job to do that.

For some strange reason I don't think the 'big man' was employed to sit on ScotRail train services waiting for someone not to pay their fare and for him to then throw them off the train. Can't say I've ever seen job advertisements for that.

[MTVN]

Call it a very educated guess..... how many students go out for a night out on the razz and have several bags with them?

Who is to say that even IF he had a 2nd/3rd bag, that he didn;t leave it somewhere else and didn't even board the train with it....after all, he and daddy confess he was out on the schwally......... does things to your memory that, as well as your balance. ;)

A night on the razz? He went to an exam and had a couple of pints afterwards

[Shasown]

Really.... how does that work with bouncers then?

How does that work with people in pubs who have had one too many too drink, are becoming awkward, difficult and causing upset to other customers....... I know for absolute FACT ----- FACT, that the same type of 'Right, you're leaving NOW" and being man handled, takes place in pubs, clubs all over the UK night in, night out.

And one point you have missed in your apparent patriotic fervour is in Scotland door staff are legally required to be licensed and trained.

The Security Industry Authority trains them not only in aspects of applicable law but also in basic restraint and manhandling techniques. That doesnt of course mean they will always act according to their training but they are authorised under scottish law and also local council bye laws to manhandle people if necessary in the pursuit of their duties.

[Pyramid*]

Bouncers are trained to do that though, it is their job to remove people from pubs and clubs.

It is not the job of random passengers on trains to act the big man and throw others off.

Jack did mention the 'relevant autorities'...in the case of bars and clubs...that would be the bouncers. And if things escalated too much, then the police.

How do we know that the 'big man' wasn't such a person off duty? How do we know he was not a police officer off duty?

How do pubs deal with such things..... very few that I know off, wait for the relevant authorities to be contacted and respond. more often than not, the same force is used to remove them, and often - by other punters in the pub who have had enough. What's the difference then?

[Pyramid*]

A night on the razz? He went to an exam and had a couple of pints afterwards

Where does it say that?


'I had been out celebrating after an exam and I was half asleep on the train

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073660/Big-Man-Scotrail-ticket-video-Alan-Pollock-throws-fare-dodger-Sam-Main-train.html#ixzz1gT7juz00

[Shasown]

How do we know that the 'big man' wasn't such a person off duty? How do we know he was not a police officer off duty?

How do pubs deal with such things..... very few that I know off, wait for the relevant authorities to be contacted and respond. more often than not, the same force is used to remove them, and often - by other punters in the pub who have had enough. What's the difference then?

If he was an off duty copper he would have tried to calm the situation probably by explaining that he was a policeman, thats often enough to nip problems in the bud.

Again funny old thing policemen are taught about not escalating situations where possible, they are taught how to defuse situations by calm conversation etc.

[Pyramid*]

Am I seriously having to respond to this?

It works because bouncers are employed specifically with the job of removing people who are (or will start) causing trouble, using physical force if required. They are employed for that very reason. It is their job to do that.

For some strange reason I don't think the 'big man' was employed to sit on ScotRail train services waiting for someone not to pay their fare and for him to then throw them off the train. Can't say I've ever seen job advertisements for that.

clearly you felt the answer to be yes, given that you just did.

[MTVN]

Where does it say that?

His Uncle

'He was sitting on the train when he noticed both tickets were for Polmont to Edinburgh Park, but he decided to concentrate on his exam and explain the mix-up to the inspector on the train home.

'After his exam he went out for a few drinks. He got on the train and everyone's seen the video, but he's no fare dodger, he was just sold the wrong ticket and the inspector's decided he's off at Linlithgow.


And his Dad

'He's diabetic and all his things were in that bag - his medication, his university notes, his money, his mobile phone and his Ipod.


Doubt he'd take his notes on a night out

[Jack_]

How do we know that the 'big man' wasn't such a person off duty? How do we know he was not a police officer off duty?

Well if that was the case, then I'm not exactly sure how these things work but I'd assume that off-duty it is still not their problem and they have no right to intervene? If so then I stick by what I said, and regardless, it is none of their business. If not then fair enough, if he is allowed to because of his profession then so be it. But the bottom line of it is, only people in such positions should be allowed to use physical force to remove him, not random passengers on the train.

How do pubs deal with such things..... very few that I know off, wait for the relevant authorities to be contacted and respond. more often than not, the same force is used to remove them, and often - by other punters in the pub who have had enough. What's the difference then?

No difference, and I'd hope that if other people in the pub took it upon themselves to use physical force to remove someone who had not been violent at all, i.e. not in self defence, that they would then be prosecuted for it.

Again, the bottom line of it is - unless it is in self defence, you have no right to physically force someone, or be violent towards someone no matter what the reason behind it is is.

[Vicky.]

How do we know that the 'big man' wasn't such a person off duty? How do we know he was not a police officer off duty?

How do pubs deal with such things..... very few that I know off, wait for the relevant authorities to be contacted and respond. more often than not, the same force is used to remove them, and often - by other punters in the pub who have had enough. What's the difference then?

OK I think you are seriously clutching at straws now tbh

I very much doubt the guy was an off duty police officer...or he would have mentioned that...and he would have been trained in control and restraint, conflict management etc etc so he wouldnt have nearly squashed someones kid while just pushing the other guy...

He would also have known that mentioning he was a PC/flashing his badge would probably make the 19 yr old more likely to listen to him

Im going to leave this thread now. So its up to you if you reply or not. But IMO this argument is now getting very very silly :p

[Pyramid*]

If he was an off duty copper he would have tried to calm the situation probably by explaining that he was a policeman, thats often enough to nip problems in the bud.

Again funny old thing policemen are taught about not escalating situations where possible, they are taught how to defuse situations by calm conversation etc.

Possibly he'd had enough of listening to a man trying to do his job, who (as per the newpaper report) suggested he buy a ticket and the yobbo refused, preferring instead to verbally abuse an employee of the Rail company and just got rid of bad rubbish, promptly and without ceremony.

[InOne]

Pyramid at the end of the day there was no excuse for Big mans actions, he was a thug and jumped at the chance to throw him off the train. He is no hero and he should be dealt with by the law, he was by far the worst out of the three of them.

[Jack_]

clearly you felt the answer to be yes, given that you just did.

Bit pathetic though. Come on, you clearly know, as do most people, the difference between an employed bouncer and a passenger on a ScotRail train service. There is no correlation between the two, and you are definitely clutching at straws for comparisons.

[Pyramid*]

OK I think you are seriously clutching at straws now tbh

I very much doubt the guy was an off duty police officer...or he would have mentioned that...and he would have been trained in control and restraint, conflict management etc etc so he wouldnt have nearly squashed someones kid while just pushing the other guy...

He would also have known that mentioning he was a PC/flashing his badge would probably make the 19 yr old more lilely to listen to him

Im going to leave this thread now. So its up to you if you reply or not. But IMO this argument is now getting very very silly :p

I actually agree...... it is getting silly - but it remains a possibility (slim albeit). I didn't think Police Officers carried their badges around whilst out socialising, perhaps that's why the guy didn't have it to flash?

Far as I am concerned, the one in the wrong was the 19 year old for all f the reasons I have stated.

Nighty night !!:wavey:

[Pyramid*]

Pyramid at the end of the day there was no excuse for Big mans actions, he was a thug and jumped at the chance to throw him off the train. He is no hero and he should be dealt with by the law, he was by far the worst out of the three of them.

At the end of the day: I am perfectly entitled to my own opinion -whether people agree or not.

[InOne]

At the end of the day: I am perfectly entitled to my own opinion -whether people agree or not.

Mmmmhmm and don't you just let us know about it.

[Shasown]

Possibly he'd had enough of listening to a man trying to do his job, who (as per the newpaper report) suggested he buy a ticket and the yobbo refused, preferring instead to verbally abuse an employee of the Rail company and just got rid of bad rubbish, promptly and without ceremony.


But an off duty copper knows that if he fails to identify himself and then lays hands on someone he is as guilty as anyone else of assault and will probably be convicted of said offense where as the lay citizen would be admonished. By way of the fact he is trained in the law.

Same reason why coppers always give the "police" shouts when entering houses on raids.

Until the person (target) is aware that the people grabbing him are police the grabbee is under common law(even in Scotland) allowed to defend themselves using minimum force, of course.

[MTVN]

Mmmmhmm and don't you just let us know about it.

:laugh:

[Callum]

The big man was a bit harsh there, I don't think there was any need for him to get so rough but the boy shouldn't have been on the train in the first place so I feel no sympathy for him. The conductor was doing his job and the boy clearly wasn't listening to him so I'm glad that someone helped the conductor out and did something about the situation even though I feel he was a bit too rough with that boy. The person who I felt most for in that video was the conductor, just a man doing his job and he has to deal with a chav who hasn't paid for his fare and not willing to leave the train.

[Novo]

Can remember me and my friend were cycling back from Wales about 4/5 years ago when my bike got a punture.. so we decided to take the train and not pay we had the clever idea of locking ourselves in the toilet to hide from the ticket man but i left my bike outside the toilet door next minute all i heard was a massive crash ( my bike falling ) and the door wouldn't open.. took me about 10 minutes to work out that my bike was jamming the door, the guy must have heard us trying to open the door as well, all we heard on repeat was " I know your in there " & " i can wait here all night for you " :joker: :joker: :joker: we waited for ages for the **** to go away but ended up about 3 stops further then where we intended when we finally got off

[fruit_cake]

Pyramid at the end of the day there was no excuse for Big mans actions, he was a thug and jumped at the chance to throw him off the train. He is no hero and he should be dealt with by the law, he was by far the worst out of the three of them.

I agree, I think he should have paid his fare it's not nice to put the ticket man in such a position and the swearing must have been intimidating for him, awful.

However, the big man seemed to be chomping at the bit to grab him, he didn't just escort him either, he threw him of the train. Big man was the worst of the three by a long way imo

[Niamh.]

The guy that interfered was far too rough, yeah the one that never had a ticket was in the wrong but that was between him and the conductor, no one else, just because he never had a ticket doesnt mean the other guy had a right to assault him, the conductor should have done his job properly and kept him on the train then radio through for the police to be waiting at the next station.

Yeah, this would have been the best option really. It was quite uncomfortable viewing tbh. Yeah, he was verbally rude to the conductor but the conductor should have acted more professionally and called the proper authorities instead of giving a passenger the go ahead to basically assault him. That kid/man (whatever), would be within his rights to sue the rail company too I reckon.

[Omah]

For all the people who moan about the price of public transport - it's arseholes like this to blame.

Loads of people get away with fare dodging - this guy got caught - he should have had the sense to take it on the chin and left when he was asked to.

The Scots don't put up with this pish - and it was nice to see a more younger guy helping out the older conductor - who was only doing his job but had a young yob thinking he was some sort of hard man, cursing away at the old guy. He showed him no respect - so the other passenger gave the gobsh*te as dose of his own 'no respect' medicine.

Good on the big guy.

Why did he go on the train then if he cant afford it? theres no excuses imo.

People had places to be and he wasn't going to move so fair enough chucking him out on his arse.

Big Man :worship:

Meh, he deserved it

You do have to have your ticket ready for inspection at all times travelling on train or bus, so the lad should have made sure he had that.

I'm glad he was thrown off.

The twerp got what he deserved IMO.

If you don't pay, you don't get away.

Good, the little scumbag deserved it. All this molly coddling like 'oh he may have had his reasons for not paying', bull****. If you you can't afford the train don't get on it, simple as.

Yeah, the toe-rag had it coming ..... swearing at public servants is contemptible and unforgiveable ..... :mad:

[arista]

The big man was a bit harsh there, I don't think there was any need for him to get so rough but the boy shouldn't have been on the train in the first place so I feel no sympathy for him. The conductor was doing his job and the boy clearly wasn't listening to him so I'm glad that someone helped the conductor out and did something about the situation even though I feel he was a bit too rough with that boy. The person who I felt most for in that video was the conductor, just a man doing his job and he has to deal with a chav who hasn't paid for his fare and not willing to leave the train.


Yes he got Clapped
he is Now a Hero



Well Done Big Guy


(press went to his door but he does
not want to talk to the press)



Punk Student
ignore a real old rail man.


Hero Chucks the Punk Off




Life In The Fast Lane.

[Tom4784]

He's such a hero for attacking a diabetic teenager and refusing to let him get his medication. Give him a parade and gold plated statues in every city.

Slightly off topic but I love reading Daily Mail comments, it's like a list of everything that's wrong with the UK.

[Benjamin]

I agree, I think he should have paid his fare it's not nice to put the ticket man in such a position and the swearing must have been intimidating for him, awful.

However, the big man seemed to be chomping at the bit to grab him, he didn't just escort him either, he threw him of the train. Big man was the worst of the three by a long way imo

Well considering the train wasn't going to move until the lad got off, I would have thrown the scumbag off too.

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

i feel sorry for him :sad:

the teenager i mean

i hope the fat guy gets sent to jail

[fruit_cake]

Well considering the train wasn't going to move until the lad got off, I would have thrown the scumbag off too.

we all know you move in mysterious ways, lord :hmph:

[Omah]

He's such a hero for attacking a diabetic teenager and refusing to let him get his medication. Give him a parade and gold plated statues in every city.

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/edinburgh/around-the-capital/train_row_teen_says_he_wasn_t_dodging_fare_as_clip _goes_viral_1_2005949

Sam Main, 19, a student at Heriot-Watt University, was chucked off the train at Linlithgow station by a burly commuter, to the applause of other passengers, after he became involved in a shouting match with a conductor who told him his ticket was not valid.

But today Mr Main is reported as saying: “I had been out celebrating after an exam and I was half asleep on the train. I did have a ticket but I must have handed over the wrong one.

“The next thing I know this big guy is manhandling me to the door and throwing me off. I landed on my face and I have cuts all over my cheek and legs.

“I couldn’t believe it when the footage turned up on YouTube. People have been asking me if I’m going to go to the police, but I have more exams on Thursday and at the moment I just want to concentrate on them.”

Is the germ going to celebrate after every exam, because if he is, he should bear in mind :

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/Healthy_lifestyle/Alcohol_and_diabetes/Medication-and-alcohol/

Taking diabetes medication doesn’t mean you need to give up drinking alcohol. But you do need to limit your intake.

Men should not drink more than 3 units of alcohol per day.

That's ONE PINT of beer - perhaps he'll be able to moderate his attitude and his language then ..... :rolleyes:

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

germ

:nono::nono::nono:

[Tom4784]

http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/edinburgh/around-the-capital/train_row_teen_says_he_wasn_t_dodging_fare_as_clip _goes_viral_1_2005949



Is the germ going to celebrate after every exam, because if he is, he should bear in mind :

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-diabetes/Healthy_lifestyle/Alcohol_and_diabetes/Medication-and-alcohol/



That's ONE PINT of beer - perhaps he'll be able to moderate his attitude and his language then ..... :rolleyes:

And how do you know how often he drinks and how is it relevant? It doesn't give the lout the right to throw him about. At the end of the day the fat one was just looking for an excuse to stop dragging his fists along the floor and use them.

If it was a woman or an elderly man being thrown off I wonder if people would be so quick to jump to the fat man's defense then.

[Benjamin]

And how do you know how often he drinks and how is it relevant? It doesn't give the lout the right to throw him about. At the end of the day the fat one was just looking for an excuse to stop dragging his fists along the floor and use them.

If it was a woman or an elderly man being thrown off I wonder if people would be so quick to jump to the fat man's defense then.

That kid should have watched his mouth then and not had such an attitude if he was in the right. If he 'handed over the wrong ticket', like he claimed, he made no attempt to look for said correct ticket or to rectify the situation. This little scumbag deserved what he got and it's good to see some people will not tolerate being a pushover like the majority of the UK at the moment.

[Vicky.]

Well considering the train wasn't going to move until the lad got off, I would have thrown the scumbag off too.

I dont get this bit at all

Surely if the bloke was doing his job right, he would just radio through and have the transport police waiting at the next station for him or something.

No way would the train just have sat there for 6 hours or so with nothing else happening...the conductor was talking crap, and clearly doesnt even know how to do his job properly if he thought the train would just stay stationary until the guy decided it was time to leave :joker:

[Omah]

And how do you know how often he drinks and how is it relevant?

I don't know - I queried his intention re alcohol ..... ;)

It's relevant because the poster was using an alleged "diabetic" condition in the drunken lout's defence ..... :idc:


If it was a woman or an elderly man being thrown off I wonder if people would be so quick to jump to the fat man's defense then.

Good job it was a foul-mouthed drunken young lout then ..... :laugh2:

[Vicky.]

If it was a woman or an elderly man being thrown off I wonder if people would be so quick to jump to the fat man's defense then.

That kid should have watched his mouth then and not had such an attitude if he was in the right. If he 'handed over the wrong ticket', like he claimed, he made no attempt to look for said correct ticket or to rectify the situation. This little scumbag deserved what he got and it's good to see some people will not tolerate being a pushover like the majority of the UK at the moment.
Fair enough, but any answer to dezzys question?

I think its just because its a young lad that people are happy with him being assaulted tbh...

[arista]

i feel sorry for him :sad:

the teenager i mean

i hope the fat guy gets sent to jail




Typical of You



The Punk was Rude to the Old Rail Man.
Fact.

[arista]

Fair enough, but any answer to dezzys question?

I think its just because its a young lad that people are happy with him being assaulted tbh...




Not just a Young Lad


A Punk Kid who hates Old Workers

[Vicky.]

Not just a Young Lad


A Punk Kid who hates Old Workers

Which part of the video drew you to that conclusion arista? :confused:

[Niamh.]

Fair enough, but any answer to dezzys question?

I think its just because its a young lad that people are happy with him being assaulted tbh...

Yep. Exactly. But instead he gave that passenger the go ahead to throw him off the Train. The boy was being rude, absolutely, but he wasn't being threatening towards anyone so the conductor should have called the proper authorities.

[Benjamin]

Fair enough, but any answer to dezzys question?

I think its just because its a young lad that people are happy with him being assaulted tbh...

I wish people would stop saying assaulted, you make it all sound as if he was beaten and attacked. He was escorted off the train for not paying his fare.

And no offence, but I don't know many older people who don't pay their fare and then tell the ticket inspector to ****** off when he asks them for a valid ticket as the one they have provided is incorrect. It's easy to flip it to what if the person was old, but their attitude to the situation would be very different from the young lads and so probably never would have escalated to the situation that occurred.

[Vicky.]

I wish people would stop saying assaulted, you make it all sound as if he was beaten and attacked. He was escorted off the train for not paying his fare.

And no offence, but I don't know many older people who don't pay their fare and then tell the ticket inspector to ****** off when he asks them for a valid ticket as the one they have provided is incorrect. It's easy to flip it to what if the person was old, but their attitude to the situation would be very different from the young lads and so probably never would have escalated to the situation that occurred.

The second part of your post is such a ridiculous generalization.

Old people arent rude and dont swear...basically. :S

I know quite a few older people who go on worse than most teens I know.

[fruit_cake]

I think the young man got what he deserved, but big man so far has not got what he deserves.

[Tom4784]

That kid should have watched his mouth then and not had such an attitude if he was in the right. If he 'handed over the wrong ticket', like he claimed, he made no attempt to look for said correct ticket or to rectify the situation. This little scumbag deserved what he got and it's good to see some people will not tolerate being a pushover like the majority of the UK at the moment.

There's prcedures in place though and the Conductor should have known that, why did he not follow them and instead opened the floor for violence towards the lad? He pretty much invited people to throw him out by telling them they should be annoyed. The fat chav should be prosecuted and this incident investigated because the conductor handled it incredibly poorly.

I don't know - I queried his intention re alcohol ..... ;)

It's relevant because the poster was using an alleged "diabetic" condition in the drunken lout's defence ..... :idc:




Good job it was a foul-mouthed drunken young lout then ..... :laugh2:

But you haven't answered my question, how do you know how much he had been drinking and what do you know about his drinking habbits? You must know a lot to make such accusations so please enlighten us. In fact please tell me about the lad's condition since you obviously know enough about his case to give him dietary advice.

The truth is you don't know and you're just making assumptions, what we do know is that he is diabetic and there was medication in his bag. Both would have been very easy to disprove if he was lying.

[Omah]

But you haven't answered my question, how do you know how much he had been drinking and what do you know about his drinking habbits? You must know a lot to make such accusations so please enlighten us. In fact please tell me about the lad's condition since you obviously know enough about his case to give him dietary advice.

The truth is you don't know and you're just making assumptions, what we do know is that he is diabetic and there was medication in his bag. Both would have been very easy to disprove if he was lying.


If he's diabetic, why is he out getting drunk ?

[arista]

Which part of the video drew you to that conclusion arista? :confused:


He tells the Rail Man - No
he ain't moving. at the start.

[Vicky.]

He tells the Rail Man - No
he ain't moving. at the start.

Yeah but this doesnt mean he hates old workers...

[arista]

Yeah but this doesnt mean he hates old workers...


Yes because he was Old
he told him to Feck Off.



That Punk Held the Train Up.

[Pyramid*]

He's such a hero for attacking a diabetic teenager and refusing to let him get his medication. Give him a parade and gold plated statues in every city.

Slightly off topic but I love reading Daily Mail comments, it's like a list of everything that's wrong with the UK.

Diabetic teenager shouldn't have been out on the bevvy if he cannot be compos mentis afterwards.
Diabetic teenager should have been able to produce the 2 tickets that he claims he bought (he's now claiming that he was given 2 of the same type of one way singles..... ). Scotrail are checking this - and I'd laugh my socks off if that also was shown to be a lie.

Diabetic teenager was given his bag - no one refused him anything. Watch the vid again, it was thrown out to to by a person in a blue and white jacket, who reached for it as soon as he was removed from seat,. this is also confirmed by a woman's voice; shouting to the yob that his back had been put out also.

Also: watch the vid, the laddo tries to punch the big man - just as he's raised up from his seat - the big man stops the punch just as the boyo's clenched fist is about shoulder height.

Talking of the Daily Mail comments: you'll see that the vast majority are in favour of what happened.

[MTVN]

Talking of the Daily Mail comments: you'll see that the vast majority are in favour of what happened.

Shocking

[Vicky.]

Yes because he was Old
he told him to Feck Off.



That Punk Held the Train Up.

He wouldnt have held the train if the conductor had known how to do his job properly and just radioed through to have the relevant authorities waiting at the next stop :)

[Vicky.]

Shocking

:joker:

[arista]

The Rude Punk is on BBC News.



Its gone Global.

[arista]

He wouldnt have held the train if the conductor had known how to do his job properly and just radioed through to have the relevant authorities waiting at the next stop :)


We do not know there was Staff for that.


The Big Bloke
Chucked him off
All Around the World they Like him.

[Vicky.]

[/B]


We do not know there was Staff for that.


The Big Bloke
Chucked him off
All Around the World they Like him.

All this proves is that there are still people about who prefer violence/force to sorting things out the proper way.

[Pyramid*]

And how do you know how often he drinks and how is it relevant? It doesn't give the lout the right to throw him about. At the end of the day the fat one was just looking for an excuse to stop dragging his fists along the floor and use them.

If it was a woman or an elderly man being thrown off I wonder if people would be so quick to jump to the fat man's defense then.

Talking of fists, the one person who did anything with their fist, was the yob, in trying to punch the big man,and he was lifted out of the seat that he refused to leave....

It matters not how often he drinks - and it is relevant because you mentioned him being diabetic -hence the reason the link was provided. If his diabetes was such a big issue: then he'd have been better not drinking at all, if that leads him to falling asleep on a train. He could have taken ill and been unable to self medicate.

[arista]

All this proves is that there are still people about who prefer violence/force to sorting things out the proper way.



Yes as to many times the Working Public
are held up because of Punk Students

[Shasown]

Talking of fists, the one person who did anything with their fist, was the yob, in trying to punch the big man,and he was lifted out of the seat that he refused to leave....

It matters not how often he drinks - and it is relevant because you mentioned him being diabetic -hence the reason the link was provided. If his diabetes was such a big issue: then he'd have been better not drinking at all, if that leads him to falling asleep on a train. He could have taken ill and been unable to self medicate.

Again you just cant see the wood for the trees, Big man committed the first assault by grabbing gobby diabetic.

Doesnt matter what the idiot had done up until then, short of threatening to assault or actually assaulting the conductor, fat man has no rights to grab the kid and has assaulted him by grabbing him.

As for the drinking diabetic issue, maybe he shouldnt have drunk, thats his decision, you going to go round and twat every diabetic you see drinking or every drunk you see?

[Vicky.]

Yes as to many times the Working Public
are held up because of Punk Students

Well as long as you would think the same way if this had been a woman being chucked off the train in the video...or an elderly person. :)

[arista]

Well as long as you would think the same way if this had been a woman being chucked off the train in the video...or an elderly person. :)


No it was because he was male and rude

[Vicky.]

No it was because he was male and rude

I thought so.

Simply because he is a young male, its fine. Have a feeling this may be the same with the other people who are in support of the 'big man'

[Pyramid*]

Again you just cant see the wood for the trees, Big man committed the first assault by grabbing gobby diabetic.

Doesnt matter what the idiot had done up until then, short of threatening to assault or actually assaulting the conductor, fat man has no rights to grab the kid and has assaulted him by grabbing him.

As for the drinking diabetic issue, maybe he shouldnt have drunk, thats his decision, you going to go round and twat every diabetic you see drinking or every drunk you see?


I'll wait to see if the Big Man is charged with assault -if you and others feel it was, let's see what (if) the Police actually charge him with anything.

I don't believe he did assault anyone. It's a word people on here are throwing around to give weight to them backing this gobby guy up.

People should not be expected to have to put up verbally abuse in their workplace.

As for your final comments, that is ludicrous and has not one thing to do with this story.

[Tom4784]

If he's diabetic, why is he out getting drunk ?

Who's to say he was drunk? Even if he was does that justify assault in your eyes? I'm sure he knows his own condition and his limits better then you do.

Diabetic teenager shouldn't have been out on the bevvy if he cannot be compos mentis afterwards.
Diabetic teenager should have been able to produce the 2 tickets that he claims he bought (he's now claiming that he was given 2 of the same type of one way singles..... ). Scotrail are checking this - and I'd laugh my socks off if that also was shown to be a lie.

Diabetic teenager was given his bag - no one refused him anything. Watch the vid again, it was thrown out to to by a person in a blue and white jacket, who reached for it as soon as he was removed from seat,. this is also confirmed by a woman's voice; shouting to the yob that his back had been put out also.

Also: watch the vid, the laddo tries to punch the big man - just as he's raised up from his seat - the big man stops the punch just as the boyo's clenched fist is about shoulder height.

Talking of the Daily Mail comments: you'll see that the vast majority are in favour of what happened.

Same as I said to Omah, You're making assumptions on his conditions without knowing the specifics of his case. Just like you made the assumption that it'd be okay for the fat man to assault the lad on the off chance he might be a police officer despite the fact that if he was he would be trained to not agitate the siutation like that.

As for the Daily Mail comment, most of the comments on that page that state how wrong it was for the fat chav to assault have been downvoted while any stupid remark by the armchair warriors demanding capital punishment because teenagers are a blight on Britain and our future would be brighter if they didn't exist have been upvoted a lot.

It says a lot about the Daily Mail readership.

[Pyramid*]

I thought so.

Simply because he is a young male, its fine. Have a feeling this may be the same with the other people who are in support of the 'big man'

I will be honest here: if it was anyone giving the conductor verbals the way this guy did: I don't care what age or sex the person is - I still would not have found fault.

He was asked to remove himself and get off the train several times. He refused. Could it have been handled better? Of course: but the one person who started it all off and continued it, was the yob. All the big man did was put an end to it.

He couldn't produce his ticket

He tone, attitude and behaviour overall was unacceptable.

He refused to remove when he was asked - several times.

Thereafter the lies appeared about him not being allowed to get his bag - when the bag is clearly thrown off the train.

[arista]

I thought so.

Simply because he is a young male, its fine. Have a feeling this may be the same with the other people who are in support of the 'big man'



Yes as the Big Man got the Train going,

Someone else Chucked his bag out.



The Lad that Filmed it on his mobile
was speaking on bbc breafast and said the Big Man
helped,

[Niamh.]

I'll wait to see if the Big Man is charged with assault -if you and others feel it was, let's see what (if) the Police actually charge him with anything.

I don't believe he did assault anyone. It's a word people on here are throwing around to give weight to them backing this gobby guy up.

People should not be expected to have to put up verbally abuse in their workplace.

As for your final comments, that is ludicrous and has not one thing to do with this story.

No body is saying that the conductor should have to put up with verbal abuse in his work place, and I don't think anyone here is defending the boy either in his treatment of the conductor, the point is, the conductor should have followed proper procedure and called either the rails security or the police to deal with the boy, not give some random passenger the ok to physically throw him off the train.

[Shasown]

I'll wait to see if the Big Man is charged with assault -if you and others feel it was, let's see what (if) the Police actually charge him with anything.

I don't believe he did assault anyone. It's a word people on here are throwing around to give weight to them backing this gobby guy up.

People should not be expected to have to put up verbally abuse in their workplace.

As for your final comments, that is ludicrous and has not one thing to do with this story.

Laddo has to make a complaint, somehow I dont think he will, he seemed a bit reluctant to do so in the comments in the various newspaper stories about the incident. He probably was fare dodging.

Problem with the story is public perception will think its ok to do what fat man done and in another incident the "have a go hero" will either get slapped down or prosecuted.

There is an old saying that is very apt for this story. Two wrongs dont make a right.

[Pyramid*]

Who's to say he was drunk? Even if he was does that justify assault in your eyes? I'm sure he knows his own condition and his limits better then you do.



Same as I said to Omah, You're making assumptions on his conditions without knowing the specifics of his case. Just like you made the assumption that it'd be okay for the fat man to assault on the off chance he might be a police officer despite the fact that if he was he would be trained to not agitate the siutation like that.

As for the Daily Mail comment, most of the comments on that page that state how wrong it was for the fat chav to assault have been downvoted while any stupid remark by the armchair warriors demanding capital punishment because teenagers are a blight on Britain and our future would be brighter if they didn't exist have been upvoted a lot.

It says a lot about the Daily Mail readership.

You speak about others making assumptions here - you seem to be jumping to many yourself. You don't know what kicked off before the video began to be taken - you don't know what other abuse the conductor had to take before it got to this stage.

I didn't assume anything re police officer etc: all that discussion last night was nothing more than 'what if' situations.

I'll wait to see if the police charge the 'big man' - if it was in fact assault which I don't believe it was.

Love your comments about DM readership - seeing as you were the one who clearly had read the comments to the point that you made mention of arrows for the types of comments - you brought that matter up yourself. Therefore you are also one of the Daily Mail readership that you attempt to mock in your post above.

[arista]

The video continues with the student protesting his innocence and claiming that he showed the ScotRail employee his ‘*********g ticket’ while a group of stunned young children sit close by with their furious mother.
But the conductor adds: 'No you have not. Stop swearing.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2073929/Big-Man-Scotrail-ticket-video-Alan-Pollock-throws-fare-dodger-Sam-Main-train.html#ixzz1gW4llHDy




The Rude Punk had this Coming

[Pyramid*]

Laddo has to make a complaint, somehow I dont think he will, he seemed a bit reluctant to do so in the comments in the various newspaper stories about the incident. He probably was fare dodging.

Problem with the story is public perception will think its ok to do what fat man done and in another incident the "have a go hero" will either get slapped down or prosecuted.

There is an old saying that is very apt for this story. Two wrongs dont make a right.

Could it have been handled better? Of course it could and hindsight is a wonderful thing - but we are commenting on what did actually take place - not what 'should have'.

I believe he was fare dodging and I look forward to ScotRail investigating this - given his claim that he was sold 2 one way tickets for the same journey. That is think is nothing more than a cock and bull story - as is his claim that he wasn't allowed to get his bag - that was very clearly lifted from where he was sitting and put off the train right behind him.

I'm sure the boyo knows he's lying through his teeth.......and now that it's reached this level, he realised what a complete fool he has made of himself.

As for the publicity this has been given: I'm glad it has received it - because it seems too often that people (regardless of age) think they can say what they like to someone else, think it's fine to do what they like without consequence.

[Niamh.]

I'm sure whatever rights Scotrail had to prosecute him for not having a ticket, have now been invalidated by the way the conductor handled the situation.

[Vicky.]

I will be honest here: if it was anyone giving the conductor verbals the way this guy did: I don't care what age or sex the person is - I still would not have found fault.

He was asked to remove himself and get off the train several times. He refused. Could it have been handled better? Of course: but the one person who started it all off and continued it, was the yob. All the big man did was put an end to it.

He couldn't produce his ticket

He tone, attitude and behaviour overall was unacceptable.

He refused to remove when he was asked - several times.

Thereafter the lies appeared about him not being allowed to get his bag - when the bag is clearly thrown off the train.

See in my eyes, the only yob in that video was the bloke chucking his weight around.

The other was just rude. Swearing does not make someone a yob...to me anyway.

[Omah]

Who's to say he was drunk?

Who's to say he wasn't :conf:

He'd been out "celebrating" ;)

Even if he was does that justify assault in your eyes?

What assault ?

I'm sure he knows his own condition and his limits better then you do.

And I'll bet he doesn't care :rolleyes:

[Vicky.]

No body is saying that the conductor should have to put up with verbal abuse in his work place, and I don't think anyone here is defending the boy either in his treatment of the conductor, the point is, the conductor should have followed proper procedure and called either the rails security or the police to deal with the boy, not give some random passenger the ok to physically throw him off the train.

This.

I dont think the lad was in the right for the way he spoke to the conductor...but then again I do not think the conductor behaved professionally either...it was almost like he was inviting the other pasengers to come have a go. If this had been delat with the right way, we wouldnt be having this argument now. In the daily mail article it even says the rail staff are trained in dealing with conflict...IMO that conductor needs to re-do his training.

[Omah]

You speak about others making assumptions here - you seem to be jumping to many yourself. You don't know what kicked off before the video began to be taken - you don't know what other abuse the conductor had to take before it got to this stage.

Absolutely right - the video-taker said there was FIVE MINUTES of foul-mouthed invective from the drunken lout BEFORE he decided to record the tirade ..... :eek

[Vicky.]

As for the publicity this has been given: I'm glad it has received it - because it seems too often that people (regardless of age) think they can say what they like to someone else, think it's fine to do what they like without consequence.

Yeah, and now, we will have people who think its fine to chuck their weight around just because they disagree with a situation instead.

Cue more cases of people using violence/force just to appear 'hard' to an audience. Fantastic :D

[Pyramid*]

No body is saying that the conductor should have to put up with verbal abuse in his work place, and I don't think anyone here is defending the boy either in his treatment of the conductor, the point is, the conductor should have followed proper procedure and called either the rails security or the police to deal with the boy, not give some random passenger the ok to physically throw him off the train.

I'm sure this will be raised with the Conductor & ScotRail - however since we do not know what the full ins and outs are .... perhaps there was some very good reason for the conductor not doing so - or perhaps not being able to do so.

Unmanned stations are not unheard of these days, perhaps there would have been no one around.

Perhaps he did not have the means with which to contact Scotrail security?

By the sound of the other passengers becoming rather impatient: this stand off may have gone on for far longer than the short clip we all saw - there are so many other factors that may have given rise to the situation as we have viewed it.

[Omah]

Yeah, and now, we will have people who think its fine to chuck their weight around just because they disagree with a situation instead.

Cue more cases of people using violence/force just to appear 'hard' to an audience. Fantastic :D

OTOH, maybe drunken foul-mouthed young louts will think twice before breaking the law and abusing a public servant on ScotRail when there's a "Big Man" about ..... :dance:

[Vicky.]

OTOH, maybe drunken foul-mouthed young louts will think twice before breaking the law and abusing a public servant on ScotRail when there's a "Big Man" about ..... :dance:

Yeah...great. lets all live in fear of a big yob assaulting us if we happen to say a bad word. :thumbs:

Infact, who needs police or security? Lets just give all 'big' people the right to sort out problems by violence or force :D

[Vicky.]

I hope to god this guy tries to do the same thing in the future...with someone his OWN size...and gets knocked the **** out.

Then again, I doubt he would even have got involved if the person in question wasnt a weedy little teenager tbh :)

[Tom4784]

You speak about others making assumptions here - you seem to be jumping to many yourself. You don't know what kicked off before the video began to be taken - you don't know what other abuse the conductor had to take before it got to this stage.

I didn't assume anything re police officer etc: all that discussion last night was nothing more than 'what if' situations.

I'll wait to see if the police charge the 'big man' - if it was in fact assault which I don't believe it was.

Love your comments about DM readership - seeing as you were the one who clearly had read the comments to the point that you made mention of arrows for the types of comments - you brought that matter up yourself. Therefore you are also one of the Daily Mail readership that you attempt to mock in your post above.

What assumptions have I made? Go on tell me. I said that it was wrong to manhandle the lad which is true since there are procedures in place for dealing with fare dodgers. Granted none of us saw what happened in full but the Conducter shouldn't have stirred the situation by threatening to stop the train and he shouldn't have OK'd the lout to assault him. He should have called ahead to the next station to prepare security or the police. I did say that he had Diabetes and medication in his bag which was written in the article and would be easy to disprove he was lying. It was you two that made assumptions on his illness and alcohol levels while I just stated the fact that he had Diabetes.

It seems to me you're relying more on 'What If' scenarios rather then utilising what we already know. I'm not defending the lad, him being in the wrong is pretty much obvious, like Niamh said it's the fat man's actions that are up for debate here.

As for the Daily Mail bit, my sight isn't great but it's not awful and when it comes to the comments it isn't exactly hard to see what great big red and green numbers mean when similar systems tend to be present in comment sections on a lot of different sites. It's less to do with being a fan of the Daily Mail and more to do with common sense.

You're reaching by making out me out to be some hypocrite when I was just reading the article so that I'm at least a bit clued up on things. Reading an article that was posted and relevant to the topic does not instantly make me part of the regular Daily Mail readership, it just means that unlike you I like to try to base my arguments on facts rather then blind assumptions.

It's quite funny how you think that reading one article makes you a regular fan of something. It's a bit of a silly argument Pyramid. Keep reaching and stay classy.

[Pyramid*]

Yeah, and now, we will have people who think its fine to chuck their weight around just because they disagree with a situation instead.

Cue more cases of people using violence/force just to appear 'hard' to an audience. Fantastic :D

Who said anything about wanting to 'appear hard' for an audience. Others applauded him afterwards because they agreed with his actions - not because he wanted an audience.

If you listen to the voices in the vid in the background - the big man is not the only one sick of waiting around whilst this petulant (probably too worse for wear, diabetes or not) yob refused to get off when he is asked.

The laddo showed absolutely no respect to anyone - not to the conductor, the other passengers who were being held up, no respect for the young kids listening to his verbal abuse, no respect for the request that was being made to him to get off the train. I really don't see it being the issue some on here think it is.

[Niamh.]

I'm sure this will be raised with the Conductor & ScotRail - however since we do not know what the full ins and outs are .... perhaps there was some very good reason for the conductor not doing so - or perhaps not being able to do so.

Unmanned stations are not unheard of these days, perhaps there would have been no one around.

Perhaps he did not have the means with which to contact Scotrail security?

By the sound of the other passengers becoming rather impatient: this stand off may have gone on for far longer than the short clip we all saw - there are so many other factors that may have given rise to the situation as we have viewed it.

I find it very hard to believe that he had absolutely no way of contacting either the rail security or the police, if he had no radio or phone to do so, I'm 100% certain, one of the other oh so helpful passengers would have let him borrow their mobile phone ;)

[Vicky.]

Who said anything about wanting to 'appear hard' for an audience. Others applauded him afterwards because they agreed with his actions - not because he wanted an audience.

If you listen to the voices in the vid in the background - the big man is not the only one sick of waiting around whilst this petulant (probably too worse for wear, diabetes or not) yob refused to get off when he is asked.

The laddo showed absolutely no respect to anyone - not to the conductor, the other passengers who were being held up, no respect for the young kids listening to his verbal abuse, no respect for the request that was being made to him to get off the train. I really don't see it being the issue some on here think it is.

I think he just wanted to play the big man...if its fine for others to make assumptions then its fine for me to do the same thing ;)

Just because others are voicing their displeasure...this makes it right? Lets say I was in a shop on my lunch hour, and someone was taking absolutely forever to pay for their goods...people behind me are tutting and moaning...Im unhappy as I have to be back at work soon, the person serving looks sick to the back teeth of it...would it be fine for me to just grab the slowcoach and manhandle them out of the door? Of course it bloody wouldnt. Just because others are pissed off too, doesnt make it right

I am not going to argue against the last bit, because I agree. The kid was in the wrong. Its the actions of the conductor...and more so the bloke who chucked him off...that I find to be wrong too.

[Vicky.]

I find it very hard to believe that he had absolutely no way of contacting either the rail security or the police, if he had no radio or phone to do so, I'm 100% certain, one of the other oh so helpful passengers would have let him borrow their mobile phone ;)

Yeah that is reaching a little bit tbh

If, for example, the radios were down. I doubt they would allow the inspectors onto the trains until the matter was sorted. As the inspector would be massively at risk if there was no way to contact anyone...if for example, someone belted him one or something.

[Omah]

What assumptions have I made? Go on tell me.

OK :

Granted none of us saw what happened in full but the Conducter shouldn't have stirred the situation by threatening to stop the train and he shouldn't have OK'd the lout to assault him. He should have called ahead to the next station to prepare security or the police.

I like to try to base my arguments on facts rather then blind assumptions.


The video-taker said that the drunken lout abused the Conductor for 5 MINUTES previous to the video starting ..... :idc:

I ASSUME that there are relevant FACTS withing those 5 MINUTES, of which you know nothing ..... :hmph:

[Pyramid*]

See in my eyes, the only yob in that video was the bloke chucking his weight around.

The other was just rude. Swearing does not make someone a yob...to me anyway.

I agree it doesn't, it makes them uncouth and feel like hard men when they use curse words - due to a lack of their own vocabularly and inability to express themselves in an acceptable manner.

What does make a yob is someone who cannot prove they have a ticket, who resorts to swearing at someone who is asking him to do so or leave, who refuses to leave and then lies about not being allowed to get his bag (and most probably lied about his elongated story of having being sold 2 single tickets, realised this earlier on, claims he meant to do somethign about it, didn't but somehow still managed to argue like hell with the conductor saying he gave him the *******ing ticket;....yet he claimed in the news article that he knew he had a wrong ticket and had done nothing to sort it out....as he'd 'intended' on doing').

He didn't give a damn that he was holding up the train, didn't give a damn about the inconvenience HE was causing.

Add all that up, and to me, that is a yob.


Here: according to what he told his father: - now that's a whole different version from what we've all seen on the vid: he was adamant that he HAD to correct ticket:- yet this indicates he knew fine well he didn't.



He said Sam went to the railway station at Polmont at 8am to buy a return ticket, but was told two singles would be cheaper as he planned to return off peak.

He said: 'He was sitting on the train when he noticed both tickets were for Polmont to Edinburgh Park, but he decided to concentrate on his exam and explain the mix-up to the inspector on the train home.

'After his exam he went out for a few drinks. He got on the train and everyone's seen the video, but he's no fare dodger, he was just sold the wrong ticket and the inspector's decided he's off at Linlithgow.

[Tom4784]

OK :



The video-taker said that the drunken lout abused the Conductor for 5 MINUTES previous to the video starting ..... :idc:

How was that an assumption on my part? I said none of us saw what happened in full which is true unless you're the person that recorded the video in question. I made a statement, not an assumption.

Like I said before I'm not discussing if the lad was in the wrong because that's obvious to anyone, even if there was verbal abuse involved that doesn't give the fat man the right to assault him. It was down to the Conductor to handle the situation properly and he failed to do so. The fat man was in the wrong for getting involved and getting violent.

[Vicky.]

I agree it doesn't, it makes them uncouth and feel like hard men when they use curse words - due to a lack of their own vocabularly and inability to express themselves in an acceptable manner.

Agreed...though I swear a lot myself...not At people, but in general :blush2:


What does make a yob is someone who cannot prove they have a ticket, who resorts to swearing at someone who is asking him to do so or leave, who refuses to leave and then lies about not being allowed to get his bag (and most probably lied about his elongated story of having being sold 2 single tickets, realised this earlier on, claims he meant to do somethign about it, didn't but somehow still managed to argue like hell with the conductor saying he gave him the *******ing ticket;....yet he claimed in the news article that he knew he had a wrong ticket and had done nothing to sort it out....as he'd 'intended' on doing').

Speculation. he may have had another bag. That part of the news story is a bit odd though,, but even so...he still did not deserve to be manhandled by a randomer.



He didn't give a damn that he was holding up the train, didn't give a damn about the inconvenience HE was causing.

He wouldnt have held up the train if the conductor had actually done his job properly instead of making a big scene and inviting others to have a go. Great 'conflict management' training that train line gives its staff, yeah? :laugh:


Add all that up, and to me, that is a yob.

Fair enough. To me a yob is someone who uses unnecessary violence, purposely causes trouble, uses intimidation to get what they want etc etc. But each to their own :)

[arista]

See in my eyes, the only yob in that video was the bloke chucking his weight around.

The other was just rude. Swearing does not make someone a yob...to me anyway.


Typical From a Pub Worker




Life In The City.

[Vicky.]

Typical From a Pub Worker




Life In The City.

:joker: Thats very true

I hear swearing all day every day, maybe it just doesnt affect me as much as it affects others

[Shasown]

OTOH, maybe drunken foul-mouthed young louts will think twice before breaking the law and abusing a public servant on ScotRail when there's a "Big Man" about ..... :dance:

What public servant?

Scotrail isnt a government run agency.

Obviously up in your ivory tower, it may seem ok to call us menial folk servants, doesnt mean we have to like it though.

Anyway looks like the "ned" or a member of his family or even another passenger has complained

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-16177725

[Vicky.]

What public servant?

Scotrail isnt a government run agency.

Obviously up in your ivory tower, it may seem ok to call us menial folk servants, doesnt mean we have to like it though.

Anyway looks like the "ned" or a member of his family or even another passenger has complained

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-16177725

So if this story is to be believed...he only got agitated when the conductor started accusing him, after he tried to explain the situation "There was a discussion with me trying to explain myself for about a minute and then the conductor started shouting at me," he said. :suspect:

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out if they do proper investigations and that.

I hope the complaint is not withdrawn. That big guy needs to learn he cant just do what he likes because hes big

[Omah]

How was that an assumption on my part?

You assumed what you saw was the whole story ..... :nono:

I said none of us saw what happened in full which is true unless you're the person that recorded the video in question. I made a statement, not an assumption.

You made a statement based on an assumption (i.e. that nothing had happened previously) ..... :suspect:

[Pyramid*]

I find it very hard to believe that he had absolutely no way of contacting either the rail security or the police, if he had no radio or phone to do so, I'm 100% certain, one of the other oh so helpful passengers would have let him borrow their mobile phone ;)

I'm only putting forward possibilities - which is what we all are doing.


I think he just wanted to play the big man...if its fine for others to make assumptions then its fine for me to do the same thing ;)

Just because others are voicing their displeasure...this makes it right? Lets say I was in a shop on my lunch hour, and someone was taking absolutely forever to pay for their goods...people behind me are tutting and moaning...Im unhappy as I have to be back at work soon, the person serving looks sick to the back teeth of it...would it be fine for me to just grab the slowcoach and manhandle them out of the door? Of course it bloody wouldnt. Just because others are pissed off too, doesnt make it right

I am not going to argue against the last bit, because I agree. The kid was in the wrong. Its the actions of the conductor...and more so the bloke who chucked him off...that I find to be wrong too.

Oh don't get me wrong, I can understand why some are viewing it the way they are - I totally understand that. I simply don't agree with that view.

The fact that there's all this cock and bull story (IMO) about being sold 2 incorrect tickets, him knowing about it before going in for his exams, him going to sort it out etc - yet we see all to clearly, him arguing the bit with the conductor that he HAD the right ticket - when he knew he didn't.

Between that and him then lying about not being allowed to get his bag: that's all leading upto me thinking the one who though he was a big man, was the boyo.

Been a long while since i've seen a debate on here like this one......... pio asked for the forum to get lively: I think we've all managed to do exactly that on this thread ! :D

[arista]

:joker: Thats very true

I hear swearing all day every day, maybe it just doesnt affect me as much as it affects others



There was kids and Mother near him.


So thats Why the Punk had to be Ejected

[Omah]

What public servant?

Scotrail isnt a government run agency.

I believe you're confusing "public" with "civil" ..... ;)

[Niamh.]

I'm only putting forward possibilities - which is what we all are doing.


And I'm only responding to the possibilities you're putting forward - like we're all doing ;)

[Tom4784]

You assumed what you saw was the whole story ..... :nono:



You made a statement based on an assumption (I.e. that nothing had happened previously) ..... :suspect:

I never said anything about what may or may not have happened beforehand. Just another assumption on your part, my argument from the start has been that the man shouldn't have got involved and that he was needlessly violent. I never said anything about the lad apart from that he was in the wrong and that he had diabetes.

Your assuming incorrect things and painting them as my own. Stick to what I actually said if future and not what you wanted to hear.

[Vicky.]

Yes it has been a very long time since we all had a proper debate. At least this has given us something to talk about. Seems to have totally polarized opinions too, no-one is on the fence :D

[Shasown]

He didn't give a damn that he was holding up the train, didn't give a damn about the inconvenience HE was causing.


Behave the train was standing at Linlithgow station, thats on the main Edinburgh to Glasgow(/Falkirk) lines. Its quite a busy line, the train wouldnt have been allowed to stop for long.

Something to do with Scotrail not wanting other trains to crash into them.

Besides according to the Daily Gers

A spokesman for British Transport Police said: “We are aware of the YouTube video and our inquiries are ongoing.

“Transport police did not receive a complaint from anyone on the train at the time the incident is believed to have taken place.”

Normal policy for dealing with passengers who have no ticket or cash is for them to be given an option to have a bill sent to their home.

If a passenger refuses to pay, transport police are generally informed and told to meet the train at the next station to deal with the incident so that the service is not held up


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2011/12/13/police-hunt-for-big-man-who-threw-alleged-fare-dodger-off-scottish-train-86908-23631110/

[Vicky.]

Besides according to the Daily Gers

Would be interesting to know why the normal policy wasnt followed this time ;)

[Shasown]

I believe you're confusing "public" with "civil" ..... ;)

Not at all.


A civil servant or public servant is a person in the public sector employed for a government department or agency. The term explicitly excludes the armed services, although civilian officials will work at "Defence Ministry" headquarters. The term always includes the (sovereign) state's employees; whether regional, or sub-state, or even municipal employees are called "civil servants" varies from country to country. In the United Kingdom, for instance, only Crown employees are referred to as civil servants, county or city employees are not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_service




Get on the program eh?


Its ok though no need to apologise.

[MTVN]

I was a bit confused by him being referred to as publicly funded and a public servant as well, the rails were privatised years ago?

[Pyramid*]

Agreed...though I swear a lot myself...not At people, but in general :blush2:


Speculation. he may have had another bag. That part of the news story is a bit odd though,, but even so...he still did not deserve to be manhandled by a randomer.



He wouldnt have held up the train if the conductor had actually done his job properly instead of making a big scene and inviting others to have a go. Great 'conflict management' training that train line gives its staff, yeah? :laugh:



Fair enough. To me a yob is someone who uses unnecessary violence, purposely causes trouble, uses intimidation to get what they want etc etc. But each to their own :)

I can swear like a trooper when the notion takes me: I don't tend to unleash it in public, on crowded trains to act tough.

I find it very difficult to believe that he had another bag. how many student attend an exam laden with bags......and who is to say that after his few drinks, that he didn't leave 'this other bag' in the pub and hadn't even taken it on the train in the first instance.

The train was as standstill. The yob made it clear he had no intention of moving - he made it clear he was happy to hold the journey up regardless of there being other paying passengers on the train.

No one invited others to have a go. The big man asked the conductor if he would like the yob off the train.

As for training.....I suspect this vid is a perfect training tool. It could also be said that the father needs to teach his son to be a bit more honest and a lot more respectful.

[Omah]

I never said anything about what may or may not have happened beforehand.

Exactly, you were remiss in your interpretation.

[Vicky.]

I can swear like a trooper when the notion takes me: I don't tend to unleash it in public, on crowded trains to act tough.

I find it very difficult to believe that he had another bag. how many student attend an exam laden with bags......and who is to say that after his few drinks, that he didn't leave 'this other bag' in the pub and hadn't even taken it on the train in the first instance.

The train was as standstill. The yob made it clear he had no intention of moving - he made it clear he was happy to hold the journey up regardless of there being other paying passengers on the train.

No one invited others to have a go. The big man asked the conductor if he would like the yob off the train.

As for training.....I suspect this vid is a perfect training tool. It could also be said that the father needs to teach his son to be a bit more honest and a lot more respectful.
Of course he did...he made a point of pretty much telling the other passengers that they should be pissed off by what he said to the lad :laugh:

The vid is the perfect training tool? In what sense? Conflict management...is not escalating situations and then allowing a randomer to get involved.

[Omah]

Not at all.




Get on the program eh?


Its ok though no need to apologise.

Public services


Public services is a term usually used to mean services provided by government to its citizens, either directly (through the public sector) or by financing private provision of services. The term is associated with a social consensus (usually expressed through democratic elections) that certain services should be available to all, regardless of income. Even where public services are neither publicly provided nor publicly financed, for social and political reasons they are usually subject to regulation going beyond that applying to most economic sectors. Public service is also a course that can be studied at a college and/or university.

Sectors

Public services tend to be those considered as so essential to modern life that for moral reasons their universal provision should be guaranteed. They may be associated with fundamental human rights (such as the right to water). An example of a service which is not generally considered an essential public service is hairdressing. The Volunteer Fire Dept. and Ambulance Corps. are institutions with the mission of servicing the community. A service is helping others with a specific need or want. Here, service ranges from a doctor curing an illness, to a repair person, to a food pantry. All of these services are essential to people's lives.

In modern, developed countries the term public services often includes:

Broadcasting
Education
Electricity
Environmental protection
Fire service
Gas
Health care
Military
Police service
Public information and archiving, such as libraries
Public transportation
Social housing
Social services
Telecommunications
Town planning
Waste management
Water services

Characteristics

A public service may sometimes have the characteristics of a public good (being non-rivalrous and non-excludable), but most are merit goods, that is, services which may (according to prevailing social norms) be under-provided by the market. In most cases public services are services, i.e. they do not involve manufacturing of goods such as nuts and bolts. They may be provided by local or national monopolies, especially in sectors which are natural monopolies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_services

[Shasown]

I can swear like a trooper when the notion takes me: I don't tend to unleash it in public, on crowded trains to act tough.

I find it very difficult to believe that he had another bag. how many student attend an exam laden with bags......and who is to say that after his few drinks, that he didn't leave 'this other bag' in the pub and hadn't even taken it on the train in the first instance.

The train was as standstill. The yob made it clear he had no intention of moving - he made it clear he was happy to hold the journey up regardless of there being other paying passengers on the train.

No one invited others to have a go. The big man asked the conductor if he would like the yob off the train.

As for training.....I suspect this vid is a perfect training tool. It could also be said that the father needs to teach his son to be a bit more honest and a lot more respectful.

Conductor may have offered to let yob pay, may have offered to send bill to yobs house, Yob may be totally in the wrong. Yob might have tourettes, he may actually be telling the truth, unlikely as that possibility is. Lots and lots of possibilities.

Still doesnt give big man the right to manhandle him off the train.

[arista]

Yes it has been a very long time since we all had a proper debate. At least this has given us something to talk about. Seems to have totally polarized opinions too, no-one is on the fence :D


Yes we need a Poll



Was the Big Man


Right



or


Wrong



Simple Poll.

[Pyramid*]

Behave the train was standing at Linlithgow station, thats on the main Edinburgh to Glasgow(/Falkirk) lines. Its quite a busy line, the train wouldnt have been allowed to stop for long.

Something to do with Scotrail not wanting other trains to crash into them.

Besides according to the Daily Gers

Precisely, and all the more reason for getting the yob removed quickly - as it was holding up the journey..... remember, the train wasn't just nipping from Falkirk to Edinburgh..... it was going up to Perth. Calling and waiting on Security etc would have caused even further delay.


Re your quoted part:


transport police are generally informed and told to meet the train at the next station to deal with the incidentso that the service is not held up




Generally being the operative word here - ie: not always..... as was the case here.



Normal policy for dealing with passengers who have no ticket or cash is for them to be given an option to have a bill sent to their home.



Do you seriously believe that this yob would have given the conductor is home address to send a bill to? He wouldn't do as he was told, far less be expected to hand over his personal home address......

[Niamh.]

Yes we need a Poll



Was the Big Man


Right



or


Wrong



Simple Poll.

Oh good Idea Arista!

[Pyramid*]

Conductor may have offered to let yob pay, may have offered to send bill to yobs house, Yob may be totally in the wrong. Yob might have tourettes, he may actually be telling the truth, unlikely as that possibility is. Lots and lots of possibilities.

Still doesnt give big man the right to manhandle him off the train.

aye right.

So we'll add tourettes to his list of problems.

How's the list doing ....so far he may have:-

Diabetes
Tourettes
Memory problems
Unable to seperate fact from fiction
Oh...and a grazed face (that may have happend on his walk home for all we know)

Any further advances people?

[Pyramid*]

Oh good Idea Arista!


Yeeahhhh.....we agree.

Good shout Arista.

[Niamh.]

Yeeahhhh.....we agree.

Good shout Arista.

:laugh: added (hope Jack doesn't mind!)

[Omah]

Thank you for that. Lovely interesting reading.

But thats public sector and services. To then link it with the term public servant may seem to be correct but actually isnt.



Actually it is ..... ;)