View Full Version : The USA did elect an atheist president, but has the UK ever elected an atheist PM?
Liberty4eva
10-01-2012, 10:04 AM
Can you guess which American president I'm speaking of? Here are some of his quotes through the years which span over 40 years of his life:
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians.
History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government.
The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute enquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest. The artificial structures they have built on the purest of all moral systems, for the purpose of deriving from it pence and power, revolts those who think for themselves, and who read in that system only what is really there.
You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know.
Priests...dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live.
Among the sayings and discourses imputed to him [Jesus] by his biographers, I find many passages of fine imagination, correct morality, and of the most lovely benevolence; and others again of so much ignorance, so much absurdity, so much untruth, charlatanism, and imposture, as to pronounce it impossible that such contradictions should have proceeded from the same being.
To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no god, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise: but I believe I am supported in my creed of materialism by Locke, Tracy, and Stewart.
It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it [the Apocalypse], and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.
Yes, America once elected this man president (twice). And let him write the Declaration of Indendence. And put him on the nickle and 2 dollar bill. And Mount Rushmore. And he's usually the most loved founding father.
If you don't know by now you really need to brush up on your history but it was Thomas Jefferson.
Has the UK ever elected anyone prime minister who made such statements as skeptical of religion as America once did?
King Gizzard
10-01-2012, 10:05 AM
Does it really matter?
Liberty4eva
10-01-2012, 10:09 AM
Does it really matter?
I just take issue with this perception that we're all religious crackpots.
James Callaghan is the only self-confessed Atheist PM I think although I'm not sure, it's by no means proven that Jefferson was an atheist though, he seems to have just had quite complex religious beliefs and was against organized religion
Roy Mars III
10-01-2012, 10:59 AM
Jefferson wasn't really an atheist, though he had problems with organized religion, he still believed in a god.
Liberty4eva
10-01-2012, 11:07 AM
James Callaghan is the only self-confessed Atheist PM I think although I'm not sure, it's by no means proven that Jefferson was an atheist though, he seems to have just had quite complex religious beliefs and was against organized religion
You can never prove or disprove whether Jefferson was an atheist but even the biggest cynic would have to admit that Jefferson flirts with atheism quite a bit.
Roy Mars III
10-01-2012, 11:17 AM
You can never prove or disprove whether Jefferson was an atheist but even the biggest cynic would have to admit that Jefferson flirts with atheism quite a bit.
Jefferson was a deist, which means he believed in a god. Just not in the way most Americans did at the time
So they didn't then ..... :conf:
Roy Mars III
10-01-2012, 11:21 AM
So they didn't then ..... :conf:
Not as such, no
As well as James Callaghan KG, PC (1912–2005): British politician, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from 1976 to 1979 and the only person to have served in all four of the Great Offices of State (mentioned above), there was also Clement Attlee 1st Earl Attlee, KG, OM, CH, PC (1883–1967): Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from 1945 to 1951, under whose government the National Health Service and Welfare State were established.
Other prominent UK politicians who were/are atheists include :
Bessie Braddock JP (1899–1970): British Labour politician, vice-chairman of the party in 1968.
Charles Clarke (1950–): British Labour Party politician, a Member of Parliament since 1997 and former Home Secretary.
Michael Foot (1913–2010): British politician and writer, leader of the Labour Party 1980–1983.
Roy Hattersley PC (1932–): British Labour Party politician, author and journalist, Deputy Leader of the Labour Party 1983–1992.
Neil Kinnock PC (1942–): British Labour politician, Leader of the Opposition and Labour Party leader 1983–1992.
Ken Livingstone (1945–): Mayor of London 2000-08.
David Miliband (1965–): British Labour politician, Foreign Secretary from 2007 to 2010.
Ed Miliband (1969–): British Labour politician, Leader of the Labour Party from 2010 to the present.
Mo Mowlam (1949–2005): Former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland.
Michael Portillo former British Member of Parliament for the Conservative party, former Minister of Defence.
Clare Short (1946–): British politician, former Labour Secretary of State for International Development.
Marsh.
10-01-2012, 11:45 AM
Someone has a major chip on their shoulder.
a) If British people have made these comments on America, it doesn't mean the entire country agrees.
b) This forum is hardly representative of the people that would have those views with it being a reality television forum with the average member being teen or 20 something.
Stop taking everything so personally and just accept opinions instead of making thread after thread of US vs UK.
Glenn.
10-01-2012, 12:02 PM
What's with the sudden Bash the Brits threads?
Britain is great hence the name Great Britain.
Scarlett.
10-01-2012, 12:07 PM
I've never heard of a modern UK PM using their faith to be elected, unlike in America where it is made out to be a big thing
BBfanUSA
10-01-2012, 02:16 PM
One of my teachers pointed this out.
America is more religous because of the seperation of church and state.
Isn't the queen or the monarchy the head of the church of england?
That's something to think about.
He saw it in some book that was made in 1830 by some frenchman that toured the US.
If it wasn't for religion america wouldn't actually be as "powerful" than they are today.
America is more religous because of the seperation of church and state.
If it wasn't for religion america wouldn't actually be as "powerful" than they are today.
I'm struggling to understand the apparent contradiction of those statements ...... :conf2:
Crimson Dynamo
10-01-2012, 04:21 PM
My thread was about now. I very much doubt the folks who voted for jefferson had any idea at all what his true religious feelings were. Back then it was hard enough to find out about your neighbours.
America is severly hampered by the vile religious far right and jewish lobby.
BBfanUSA
10-01-2012, 04:29 PM
I'm struggling to understand the apparent contradiction of those statements ...... :conf2:
I realized i screwed up on something
I meant America is religious because of the seperation of church and state.
Wildcat!
10-01-2012, 05:11 PM
Whats with all these threads lately about you are not atheist enough! Who the hell cares. You atheists posters actually make it sound like an organized religion ironically.
Yes, people in the US believe in god more than in the UK! So what? Did someone win a prize? Do you think they care about the percentage of atheists!
Some of you guys, are the worst kind of atheist I have ever seen with the sort of subjects you come up with. But obviously most atheists would not want to have anything to do with you.
InOne
10-01-2012, 05:24 PM
Whats with all these threads lately about you are not atheist enough! Who the hell cares. You atheists posters actually make it sound like an organized religion ironically.
Yes, people in the US believe in god more than in the UK! So what? Did someone win a prize? Do you think they care about the percentage of atheists!
Some of you guys, are the worst kind of atheist I have ever seen with the sort of subjects you come up with. But obviously most atheists would not want to have anything to do with you.
Blame the yanks on here constantly wanting to get one up on the Brits. They keep starting these threads.
Wildcat!
10-01-2012, 05:40 PM
Blame the yanks on here constantly wanting to get one up on the Brits. They keep starting these threads.
Do you really believe that?> "the yanks' like you call them, have no idea what the hell is going on outside the US, in general. They couldnt care less whats going on here. The UK on the other hand is the complete opposite, just watch tv. Its quite evident who's trying to one up whom, and who really cares.
And even though they are as pointless as each other, this thread was in response to the one about americans, never electing an atheist.
Agin, why do you care?
Wildcat!
10-01-2012, 05:40 PM
Blame the yanks on here constantly wanting to get one up on the Brits. They keep starting these threads.
Do you really believe that?> "the yanks' like you call them, have no idea what the hell is going on outside the US, in general. They couldnt care less whats going on here. The UK on the other hand is the complete opposite, just watch your tv, or read the newspapers. Its quite evident who's trying to one up whom, and who really cares.
And even though they are as pointless as each other, this thread was in response to the one about americans, never electing an atheist.
AgAin, why do you care?
I don't think you have any idea what is going on four feet from your face. Joe is right. If you had been paying attention at all you would have noticed that this isin't really an 'atheist' thing. It's just another one of liberty4eva's apple pie threads about where he's from. Made in response to the one recent thread you are refering to with the atheist overtones. That one recent thread with it's handful of atheist viewpoints.
Run for cover! The atheist religion is taking over the forum with their pretentious ability to type coherently!
InOne
10-01-2012, 05:49 PM
Do you really believe that?> "the yanks' like you call them, have no idea what the hell is going on outside the US, in general. They couldnt care less whats going on here. The UK on the other hand is the complete opposite, just watch your tv, or read the newspapers. Its quite evident who's trying to one up whom, and who really cares.
And even though they are as pointless as each other, this thread was in response to the one about americans, never electing an atheist.
AgAin, why do you care?
So are they basically trolling by making these threads? The OP especially. And I don't care, that wasn't what I was on about...
Wildcat!
10-01-2012, 06:00 PM
So are they basically trolling by making these threads? The OP especially. And I don't care, that wasn't what I was on about...
So youre talking about one poster! There are 2 ridiculous american posters I notice here, who I tend to ignore, this op, and another named lostalex or something, and I dont get why you'd lump them with the whole country, which like I said, couldnt care less.
As for the subject, its so hilarious, bragging about my country is more atheist than yours, or less religious. Like somehow, it makes them better or more intelligent.
Roy Mars III
10-01-2012, 06:11 PM
To be honest, there are a few posters(2 mainly) on here who feel the need to attack anyone with any sort of criticism of the United States. There really is no need for some of the threads the past two days which are obviously just some sort of 'retaliation' for that atheist president thread.
And I don't think anyone has said one country is smarter than the other because it's more atheist.
All the recent UK/US comparisons and debates are starting to get a bit annoying tbh, and they seem to work their way into every serious debates thread
BBfanUSA
10-01-2012, 06:34 PM
All the recent UK/US comparisons and debates are starting to get a bit annoying tbh, and they seem to work their way into every serious debates thread
As a american i agree with you. These threads are starting to get annoying.
Can we just drop this US vs UK, religion vs atheist bullcrap?
People are trolling.
Also i wish the american media would look to the outside more. Maybe because our country is so big, that's why to world's issues don't matter to us.
What makes me truely sick is the fact that christians will seriously attack other religions because "we" as a religion will attack another religion because they are attacking us and vice versa.
Shasown
10-01-2012, 07:50 PM
Do you really believe that?> "the yanks' like you call them, have no idea what the hell is going on outside the US, in general. They couldnt care less whats going on here. The UK on the other hand is the complete opposite, just watch tv. Its quite evident who's trying to one up whom, and who really cares.
And even though they are as pointless as each other, this thread was in response to the one about americans, never electing an atheist.
Agin, why do you care?
Inone didnt say Yanks as in the whole of the US he said:
Blame the yanks on here constantly wanting to get one up on the Brits. They keep starting these threads.
Although I have only emboldened the first five words of the first sentence for effect, reading the first sentence as a whole should enlighten as to who he was referring.
rk3388
10-01-2012, 08:07 PM
What's with the sudden Bash the Brits threads?
Britain is great hence the name Great Britain.
I think this is based off the " isnt it disgusting the usa never elected an atheist" thread, pretty much saying the usa is full of catholic loonies
Shasown
10-01-2012, 08:30 PM
I think this is based off the " isnt it disgusting the usa never elected an atheist" thread, pretty much saying the usa is full of catholic loonies
Whilst Catholicism is the largest of the Christian groups in the US at about 25% of the population, over 50% of the population is made up of other christian groups.
Incidentally, do you mean all catholics are loonies or just the one in the US?
InOne
10-01-2012, 10:22 PM
So youre talking about one poster! There are 2 ridiculous american posters I notice here, who I tend to ignore, this op, and another named lostalex or something, and I dont get why you'd lump them with the whole country, which like I said, couldnt care less.
As for the subject, its so hilarious, bragging about my country is more atheist than yours, or less religious. Like somehow, it makes them better or more intelligent.
When have I ever said they represent the whole country? You seem to be putting words into my mouth here, do you even have a point?
InOne
10-01-2012, 10:24 PM
Inone didnt say Yanks as in the whole of the US he said:
Although I have only emboldened the first five words of the first sentence for effect, reading the first sentence as a whole should enlighten as to who he was referring.
Exactly, it's annoying when people dive into threads head first and talk nonsense.
Niall
10-01-2012, 10:24 PM
The religious beliefs of a leader count for nothing so long as they don't let such beliefs influence how they lead their nation, IMO. I don't understand what the issue is.
The beliefs of the Christian right in America directly influence their politics. They will tell you that themselves. They are a huge political lobby and they want the 'good ol' America back.
Liberty4eva
10-01-2012, 11:29 PM
The beliefs of the Christian right in America directly influence their politics. They will tell you that themselves. They are a huge political lobby and they want the 'good ol' America back.
The Jewish lobby trumps all other religious lobbies in the states put together. My theory is that the Christian Right prides itself on influence when in reality it doesn't have much power. It can get presidential candidates to wear their religion on their sleaves but I doubt they influence policy much.
nicole_burks
11-01-2012, 12:16 AM
All the recent UK/US comparisons and debates are starting to get a bit annoying tbh, and they seem to work their way into every serious debates thread
I agree with this, they're getting annoying. Even though I don't come onto the forum all that often, but still what does it matter?
Why is it important about whether we had an atheist president or not?
If you've never lived here than how can you make a judgement without proof?
I guess i'm just confused..
Mystic Mock
11-01-2012, 12:24 AM
The thing is Lostalex and the OP keep starting these pro America threads (which is fine I dont care) but they then start insulting Britain on a British reality tv forum which I do not get.
Imo that is trying to cause trouble between the British posters and the American posters.
Liberty4eva
11-01-2012, 01:08 AM
The thing is Lostalex and the OP keep starting these pro America threads (which is fine I dont care) but they then start insulting Britain on a British reality tv forum which I do not get.
Imo that is trying to cause trouble between the British posters and the American posters.
I wouldn't call it a pro-American thread but rather a response to an anti-American thread which said it was "disgusting" that we'd never elect an atheist.
Mystic Mock
11-01-2012, 01:11 AM
I wouldn't call it a pro-American thread but rather a response to an anti-American thread which said it was "disgusting" that we'd never elect an atheist.
Tbh I dont think that is right as the Americans should vote for who is best for there country,the same goes for this country aswell but for some reason religion always creeps into it,and no offence but especially in the United States.
Scarlett.
11-01-2012, 09:30 AM
I wouldn't call it a pro-American thread but rather a response to an anti-American thread which said it was "disgusting" that we'd never elect an atheist.
No, a poster with an American flag in their signature with the words "I am the hero" could never create threads with pro American connotations, could they?
It's almost as if lostalex plays up to every American sterotype in history.
Crimson Dynamo
11-01-2012, 09:43 AM
I agree with this, they're getting annoying. Even though I don't come onto the forum all that often, but still what does it matter?
Why is it important about whether we had an atheist president or not?
If you've never lived here than how can you make a judgement without proof?
I guess i'm just confused..
The fact that your country would not vote for a president who did not believe in supernatural beings, being a problem, is a mystery to you?
jesus
lostalex
11-01-2012, 11:59 AM
What's with the sudden Bash the Brits threads?
Britain is great hence the name Great Britain.
Actually the name Great Britain was using the word "great" to mean larger.
answers.com: historians believe it was called "Great" Britain to distinguish it from Brittany, in North West France.
Geographers may use "Britain" to describe just the mainland and "Great Britain" to include the offshore islands.
In both cases, the word "great" conveys the idea of larger size rather than an acclamation of how good it is.
Marsh.
11-01-2012, 12:12 PM
Chip. Shoulder.
lostalex
11-01-2012, 12:20 PM
Chip. Shoulder.
okay dokay.
Marsh.
11-01-2012, 12:26 PM
okay dokay.
May come as a surprise to you, but I was referring to the OP, not you.
lostalex
11-01-2012, 12:30 PM
May come as a surprise to you, but I was referring to the OP, not you.
oh i'm sorry, i didn't realize i could only respond to posts directed to me. Is that rule written down somewhere?
Scarlett.
11-01-2012, 12:45 PM
oh i'm sorry, i didn't realize i could only respond to posts directed to me. Is that rule written down somewhere?
You responded as if it was directed at you, obviously it was a misunderstanding, but, as per, you make a drama of it.
Marsh.
11-01-2012, 12:52 PM
oh i'm sorry, i didn't realize i could only respond to posts directed to me. Is that rule written down somewhere?
You responded as if it was directed at you, obviously it was a misunderstanding, but, as per, you make a drama of it.
^^^^
lostalex
11-01-2012, 12:56 PM
You responded as if it was directed at you, obviously it was a misunderstanding, but, as per, you make a drama of it.
My post was not directed towards you. LOL (and they say it's Americans that don't understand irony?)
nicole_burks
11-01-2012, 02:47 PM
The fact that your country would not vote for a president who did not believe in supernatural beings, being a problem, is a mystery to you?
jesus
Why does it bother you..? You don't live here, why does it matter so much to you whether we vote for someone like that or not?
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