Michael Madsen - sore loser

[JonRC]

I am no fan of Denise, and I think it was wrong that she won

But - she DID win, and I was surprised and disappointed by Michael Madsen's behaviour tonight

I know he had his reasons, and I think they were good reasons

much as I didn't want it, she did win, so shut the F up and let her have her 5 mins

[nim136]

I dont hate Michael or Denise. But I agree he was extremely rude on BOTS. And his mood swings throughout the series just pissed me off.

[BB IS ALIVE]

He is a knob at the end of the day.

[Visage]

It was disappointing to see Michael behave like that.

[Jack_]

I have to agree, and I'm a big Michael fan. He was quite out of order. Mind you, it made for funny yet extremely awkward and cringeworthy TV.

[Jords]

Wasnt he just :joker:

[Saph]

What did he actually do? I missed it

[mh272]

Not. Denise started again and he defended himself

[Wayne-Kerr]

Michael was embarrassing on BOTS.

[Lozzibear]

He was bang out of order, it was an utter disgrace and he really showed his true colours... what a sickeningly sore loser and a disgusting excuse of a man. I didn't like his mood swings in the house, but I did think he was funny (when he wasn't in a mood, or sleeping)... now, my opinion of him has completely changed... He really let himself down.

[MTVN]

Think he handled himself quite well, Denise was acting disgracefully

[David R]

Actually what was wrong was her reaction to whatever Micheal was doing. To be fair it was slightly rude of him to interupt her but not as rude as sticking two fingers up and f'ing at him like some drunken tart... yeah very classy.

[Roy Mars III]

Michael did nothing wrong, Denise's attack on him was unwarranted.

[lostalex]

i didn't hear him say anything that he wasn't saying the entire series, so i don't see any problem with how he behaved on BOTS.

Denise was horrible to him, and made his life hell the first 2 weeks. Why should he play nice?

it just showed he was being genuine the entire time.

[Black Dagger]

To be fair, I think I'd be a sore loser if I lost to the likes of Gareth and Denise.

He wasn't even that bad though. :bored:

[billy123]

He made a bit of a tit of his self it was rude of him denise should have handled it better too though.

[LessThanMe]

No chance was i going to watch that awful program but I hope he stuck it to her big time. Good on him.

Someone needed to speak up on that piece of **** show against her.

[swinearefine]

What did he say? I couldn't tell.

[vortex]

What did he said?

They are both trainwrecks in the end of the day, as Denise said like a cat and a dog.

[wendywillow]

What did he say? I couldn't tell.

he was snoring when she was talking to emma and then when she said something to him he sald calm down or something, i like mike but he was a bit of a twit for no reason (i think he really wanted to win)

[Ammi]

I didn't see him do anything wrong, Denise just didn't like the fact that Michael and the twins were talking while she was talking....and she responded very maturely..telling him to '**** off'...amazing social skills learned in her 53 years. She was also snappy with Brian during her interview when he had to cut it short.......'Don't ask me the question then....'
That's Denise's problem..nobody likes the sound of her voice as much as she does herself

[billy123]

I didn't see him do anything wrong, Denise just didn't like the fact that Michael and the twins were talking while she was talking....and she responded very maturely..telling him to '**** off'...amazing social skills learned in her 53 years. She was also snappy with Brian during her interview when he had to cut it short.......'Don't ask me the question then....'
That's Denise's problem..nobody likes the sound of her voice as much as she does herself
Thats not really what happened though is it mmmmm k thanks but bye.
http://girlrevolutionary.net/picspams/gifs/ad_judgingyou.gif

[crocs]

Michael probably did something there but I didn't hear it when I watched it, so Denise's reaction was just out of the blue and didn't go well down with me. I know Michael was a bit unpredictable at times, but mostly he was easy to read and Denise just couldn't read him (to give you an example: if Michael goes to the bedroom by himself, I think he's out of bounds then and wants to be alone).

[Liberty4eva]

I'm not really on anyone's side. It was an interesting moment and I think too many people get offended by little things like this.

[Ammi]

Thats not really what happened though is it mmmmm k thanks but bye.
http://girlrevolutionary.net/picspams/gifs/ad_judgingyou.gif

..LOL...em...yes it was..Denise couldn't have them talking through her interview so she 'put them in their place'........'**** off'.....yep..always shows command of the situation that one...a very intelligent retort.....that showed them Denise

[starry]

Think he handled himself quite well, Denise was acting disgracefully

I agree. How Denise would have reacted if some of the crowd heckled her as is normal on the show I dare not think. The presenters are obviously scared of her as they never asked her whether she had a crush on Michael, which they said they would do. Denise is just obsessed by Michael.

[Ammi]

I agree. How Denise would have reacted if some of the crowd heckled her as is normal on the show I dare not think. The presenters are obviously scared of her as they never asked her whether she had a crush on Michael, which they said they would do. Denise is just obsessed by Michael.

Tbf, they didn't get an opportunity to ask her much...she does tend to like the sound of her own voice, I think that was the crux of her and Michaels problems..she seems to think that she has more right to speak than anyone else and when someone else tries to say something, she tends to raise her voice and talk over them...I think this irritated Michael as she would throw some remark at him but then not give him the opportunity to react to it....she's not a good listener..a conversation involves listening as well as talking

[chuff me dizzy]

VERY much a sore loser ,Twins too

[Marc]

He's been a miserable man all series. It can be funny sometimes but a lot of the time it was just rude most of the time

[starry]

He's been a miserable man all series. It can be funny sometimes but a lot of the time it was just rude most of the time

How can you say that without even a proper live stream?

[MeMyselfAndI]

LOL he was great :D

[Kazanne]

it was disappointing to see michael behave like that.

this^

[Visage]

He's been a miserable man all series. It can be funny sometimes but a lot of the time it was just rude most of the time

How can you say that without even a proper live stream?

With that logic then it would wipe out the majority of all posts and threads on TiBB this series.

[Spring]

Michael did nothing wrong - She's got such a big ego- how dare he speak while she's being interviewed:rolleyes:

[Cherie]

Michael did nothing wrong - She's got such a big ego- how dare he speak while she's being interviewed:rolleyes:

But he didnt speak, until she dragged him into it... and then played the victim saying she couldnt hear, when Michael retaliated...:hugesmile:

[starry]

With that logic then it would wipe out the majority of all posts and threads on TiBB this series.

Except that 'all series' and 'most of the time' are very questionable within that context. Also it was obvious just watching the HLs that he could have fun.

[Roy Mars III]

Only good thing about the whole night.

[jacksonb]

I saw what Ammi saw, Denise said she couldn't hear the question because 'they' were talking, he said some thing(inaudible to me) and she told him to feck off .

She's not the pope that all the assembled masses have to sit silently and listen to, she behaved badly , not Michael.

[rusticgal]

He was obviously being a complete w****r and acting like a sore loser....good for denise she put him in his place...

[crocs]

The only thing I heard Michael say was "Don't start" or something like that.

[mh272]

The only thing I heard Michael say was "Don't start" or something like that.

At first he was saying "stop, take it easy, take it easy", but she kept going and he said something like, "keep drinking" etc, I don't blame him at all. She caused it again.

[SharkAttack]

The way they both carried on was as if they had never left the house. And to be fair, they were mere minutes out of the house, not days/weeks/months. There wasn't time to decompress. Michael was rude, Denise reacted normally as Denise would act(in the house.) No crimes committed, and more for us idiots to talk about. ;-)

[Angus]

More like Denise is a sore winner. She couldn't win graciously could she? Oh no, first milk the whole exit at the foot of the stairs, then go to pull her top up(:sleep:) at the top of the stairs, then talking over Brian in the interview (as per usual),then fuelled by booze she had consumed prior to BBBOTS she did what she always does, push people's buttons, in particular Michael. She still can't accept that he HATES her and with good reason. Vile woman. No wonder her husband and kids were nowhere to be seen.

[Pyramid*]

He's been a miserable man all series. It can be funny sometimes but a lot of the time it was just rude most of the time

Damn....you had Live Feed and the rest of us poor minions only had to make do with restricted edited highlights. :(

Folks: it's clear that even in winning, Denise still had to make it about Michael. If it hadn't been for him being in the house - and her obsession with him- she'd have been booted out long ago.

She owes her winning to Michael -without him in the house, she'd have had nothing worthwhile to be shown.

[Angus]

He's been a miserable man all series. It can be funny sometimes but a lot of the time it was just rude most of the time

I wonder what sort of a mood any of us would have been in if we had been constantly harrassed by that hag, especially in the first 10 days. None of the other HMs, even Natalie and Nicola, had a problem with him and have professed to liking him. Denise was always very careful to reserve her nastiest harrassment for when they were alone, and then go crying to the other HMs with her twisted version of events. She expected him to fall at her feet, the sad deluded tart.

I cannot believe the public fell for her manipulation, but then again she is an expert over several decades at getting what she wants by playing the "deflect the blame" game.

[Wayne-Kerr]

The straight to DVD actor was wrong, and for anyone to say Denise was in the wrong is either trolling or blinkered by their dislike for her.

[Visage]

The straight to DVD actor was wrong, and for anyone to say Denise was in the wrong is either trolling or blinkered by their dislike for her.

Yes because opinions don't exist... Right ?

[Wayne-Kerr]

Yes because opinions don't exist... Right ?

Yes...?
But opinions can be wrong (hence the blinkered bit) or your opinion could just be that to troll (hence the trolling bit).

[Incensed]

Damn....you had Live Feed and the rest of us poor minions only had to make do with restricted edited highlights. :(

Folks: it's clear that even in winning, Denise still had to make it about Michael. If it hadn't been for him being in the house - and her obsession with him- she'd have been booted out long ago.

She owes her winning to Michael -without him in the house, she'd have had nothing worthwhile to be shown.


I don't like either of them, but to say there would have been nothing worthwhile to show is imo, incorrect. There was the jacuzzi incident and the 'girls night in' fallout. I'm not in any way defending her behaviour btw, but clearly there would have been something to show.

[Jack_]

Of course Michael was in the wrong. At the end of the day, he started it all off by pretending to snore whilst Denise was being interviewed. I don't care how you cut it - that is rude. And so she quite rightfully retaliated by calling him up on it, and then when he proceeded to continue, told him to **** off. Perfectly acceptable if you ask me, and this is coming from a Michael fan (who is more a fan of Michael than Denise).

This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a fact. He started it off.

[Jack_]

Did my post have to be deleted? Surely the insult could have just been edited out because the rest of it was fine?

[MTVN]

Ok I've undeleted & edited it

[Kazanne]

Of course Michael was in the wrong. At the end of the day, he started it all off by pretending to snore whilst Denise was being interviewed. I don't care how you cut it - that is rude. And so she quite rightfully retaliated by calling him up on it, and then when he proceeded to continue, told him to **** off. Perfectly acceptable if you ask me, and this is coming from a Michael fan (who is more a fan of Michael than Denise).

This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a fact. He started it off.

First time ever I think Jack,but I agree,pure bad manners in my book.I like Michael too,but can see he was ultimately at fault and also the twins for giggling at him.

[Jack_]

Thank you :)

[Kizzy]

i dont think he was snoring, just hyperventilating at the shock of her winning...i was sat there like a stunned mullet for about ten minutes...lol

[Jack_]

First time ever I think Jack,but I agree,pure bad manners in my book.

Wow yeah! It was pretty rude, I can't fathom how people can dispute that...

[Kizzy]

hes not rude...you just dont 'get' him...;)

[Jack_]

hes not rude...you just dont 'get' him...;)

I'm a fan of Michael...of course I get him. But it's plain here for everyone to see that by pretending to snore when someone is talking, you are being rude. I think that's well known by most people to be bad mannered. If you did that in a class/lecture/meeting you'd be thrown out.

[Kizzy]

if you were whacked off your gourd telling him to feck off or attempting to smack him in the mush you might too...

[Visage]

Yes...?
But opinions can be wrong (hence the blinkered bit) or your opinion could just be that to troll (hence the trolling bit).

My opinion is that Michael was in the wrong. It was rude of him, but I also think he did it because he knew how to wind her up. That doesn't mean I agree with him.

Your comment looked to me like you were saying that anyone who disagreed with this were either blinkered or trolling. Personally I respect other people's opinions, whether I agreed with them or not.

[Kizzy]

i havent seen any trolls on here thats why i like it...its not facebook haha

[Ammi]

I watched it twice and didn't notice the 'snoring', just that Michael and the twins seemed to be talking while Denise was being interviewed. However, as they were off camera at the time, it could well be that is what occurred and no, it's not the most mature thing from Michael. But imo, Denise's response by telling him to '**** off' was equally bad. When Denise pulled Karissa's pj's down and there was such an uproar, more about Karissa's over reaction to it than the initial 'incident'...to me this is similar...Michael was silly and Denise's reaction was shabby.
Two wrongs and all that...

[Kizzy]

agreed ..i havent seen the interview to be fair so shouldn't really comment will it be on yoochoob?

[Visage]

I watched it twice and didn't notice the 'snoring', just that Michael and the twins seemed to be talking while Denise was being interviewed. However, as they were off camera at the time, it could well be that is what occurred and no, it's not the most mature thing from Michael. But imo, Denise's response by telling him to '**** off' was equally bad. When Denise pulled Karissa's pj's down and there was such an uproar, more about Karissa's over reaction to it than the initial 'incident'...to me this is similar...Michael was silly and Denise's reaction was shabby.
Two wrongs and all that...

Valid points Ammi. I have been guilty of thinking the twins overreacted with Denise, but didn't think the same when Denise overacted.




I will accept my whipping now....

[Ammi]

Valid points Ammi. I have been guilty of thinking the twins overreacted with Denise, but didn't think the same when Denise overacted.




I will accept my whipping now....

Oooo..I like a good whipping

[Wayne-Kerr]

My opinion is that Michael was in the wrong. It was rude of him, but I also think he did it because he knew how to wind her up. That doesn't mean I agree with him.

Your comment looked to me like you were saying that anyone who disagreed with this were either blinkered or trolling. Personally I respect other people's opinions, whether I agreed with them or not.

Yeah, my point was that there is no possible way in which Michael wasn't in the wrong, but people on here seem to be blaming Denise. So, blinkered or trolling is my opinion on them.

And of course I respect opinions, but not when they're so obviously wrong in this case.

[Ammi]

Yeah, my point was that there is no possible way in which Michael wasn't in the wrong, but people on here seem to be blaming Denise. So, blinkered or trolling is my opinion on them.

And of course I respect opinions, but not when they're so obviously wrong in this case.

There is right on wrong on both sides..it's all down to what people's opinion is as to where the bigger portion of the blame is..that is why it's an opinion

[Wayne-Kerr]

There is right on wrong on both sides..it's all down to what people's opinion is as to where the bigger portion of the blame is..that is why it's an opinion

As I said in the post you quoted, I was talking about those who were blaming Denise, when it would be pretty obvious to anyone who didn't favour either of them (or watching without seeing the series), that Michael was incredibly rude and when asked to stop continued.

[Jack_]

Yeah, my point was that there is no possible way in which Michael wasn't in the wrong, but people on here seem to be blaming Denise. So, blinkered or trolling is my opinion on them.

And of course I respect opinions, but not when they're so obviously wrong in this case.

This. It really isn't a matter of opinion on this issue.

It's not something that can be debated, say like immigration where there's many sides to the coin, this is a one-sided issue that isn't up for discussion.

[joeysteele]

I wouldn't have made any comments negative or otherwise while Emma was interviewing Denise, it wasn't just disresepctful to to do so whether you dislike Denise or not, but it was really quite disrespectful to the show and Emma too who was trying to do the interview.

Emma did give an icy stare to Michaels direction and I noticed when Denise was being asked questions by the panel and audience, that Gareth was sat very close to Michael,maybe trying to keep him in check.
It is clear Michael doesn't like Denise at all and it may be that Emma fuelled things by concentrating so much in the interview with Denise as to her relationship with Michael.

A bit rude from Michael I would say,nothing like the nasty comments thrown at Aaron by Pete Burns after the BB series last year though.
As for Michael maybe snoring during the interview.well often on Loose Women on the few times I do see it, if Denise is on, I find I have to at the very least turn the volume down as she is all me, me, me and also very loud.
If Michael is able to sleep when she is talking, well, good on the guy.

[Kizzy]

i have seen it now, and yes he was trying to wind her up...it was funny though he was trying to goad a reaction and like the 'people pleaser' she is she delivered.

[Pyramid*]

This. It really isn't a matter of opinion on this issue.

It's not something that can be debated, say like immigration where there's many sides to the coin, this is a one-sided issue that isn't up for discussion.


70+ posts proves you are wrong. :joker:

[Pyramid*]

Yeah, my point was that there is no possible way in which Michael wasn't in the wrong, but people on here seem to be blaming Denise. So, blinkered or trolling is my opinion on them.

And of course I respect opinions, but not when they're so obviously wrong in this case.

yeah, long term posters are clearly trolling because they offer a different pov from your own.

Clearly you don't respect others' opinions...........

[Jack_]

70+ posts proves you are wrong. :joker:

The only reason this thread is so big is because some Michael fans seem to be blinded by their love for him, and refuse to admit when he has done something wrong. And this is coming from a Michael fan. I'm sorry but but the facts are clear and this isn't a matter of personal opinion.

[Pyramid*]

The only reason this thread is so big is because some Michael fans seem to be blinded by their love for him, and refuse to admit when he has done something wrong. And this is coming from a Michael fan. I'm sorry but but the facts are clear and this isn't a matter of personal opinion.


Yes it is. Throughout the interview: Denise is so obsessed with Michael that she CONTINUALLY had to refer to him in a derogatory manner - he therefore had every right to defend himself - regardless. That's my opinion and whether you like it or not, it is a valid opinion.

[Jack_]

Yes it is. Throughout the interview: Denise is so obsessed with Michael that she CONTINUALLY had to refer to him in a derogatory manner - he therefore had every right to defend himself - regardless. That's my opinion and whether you like it or not, it is a valid opinion.

What? That never happened at all.

The interview was running smoothly, no comments about Michael had been made by Denise. Emma was then about to ask some questions about Michael, when in the audience it became apparent that Michael himself was pretending to snore - which is out and out rudeness. Denise called him up on it, saying it was 'bad sportsmanship', which it is, he continued, shouted a bit - and so Denise quite rightfully told him to '**** off'. That is how it happened - Michael started it all.

It is not an opinion. It was rudeness from Michael, and that's the bottom line of it.

[Pyramid*]

What? That never happened at all.

The interview was running smoothly, no comments about Michael had been made by Denise. Emma was then about to ask some questions about Michael, when in the audience it became apparent that Michael himself was pretending to snore - which is out and out rudeness. Denise called him up on it, saying it was 'bad sportsmanship', which it is, he continued, shouted a bit - and so Denise quite rightfully told him to '**** off'. That is how it happened - Michael started it all.

It is not an opinion. It was rudeness from Michael, and that's the bottom line of it.


It's my opinion - and it's valid. You might not agree, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. If he wanted to inject a bit of humour into things - that was up to him. I didn't have an issue with it.

Telling someone to **** off, which she did, is far more rude, rather than ignoring Michael which she could have done.... ;)

[Kizzy]

going in circles here... you say tomato and i say denise is an old soak...lets call the whole thing off :)

[Pyramid*]

going in circles here... you say tomato and i say denise is an old soak...lets call the whole thing off :)


:devil::devil::devil:

[Jack_]

It's my opinion - and it's valid. You might not agree, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. If he wanted to inject a bit of humour into things - that was up to him. I didn't have an issue with it.

Telling someone to **** off, which she did, is far more rude, rather than ignoring Michael which she could have done.... ;)

No it is not valid. This is a case of fact, not opinion. It wasn't humorous in the slightest, well, maybe in an this-is-awkward-tv-but-it's-amusing kind of way, but when you take that aspect out of it and look at it seriously and maturely - Michael was rude and bad mannered. As I have said previously in this thread or another, if you pretended to snore in a classroom/lecture/meeting, you would be shown the door, as everybody knows how bad mannered and rude it is. How anybody could attempt to try and dispute that is just beyond me...because quite clearly you can't.

So let me get this straight, someone is quite blatantly baiting her, being rude and bad mannered and quite unfair, and she is supposed to just sit there and take it? How ridiculous. If she didn't tell him how rude he was being, no one else would have done...and someone had to do it. If someone is being rude, you call them up on it, and you are quite within your rights to be rude back to them. Ignoring them just allows them to bait you even more.

[Ammi]

I'm still not sure about the snoring because whatever Michael did/said was off camera but it's still a matter of opinion as to whetehr he was in the right or wrong...when Denise tried to jab Michael in the bedroom, which she did, it was on camera...its a matter of opinion whether it was in fun...when Denise pulled down Karissa's pj's and exposed her ass..its a matter of opinion whether it was in fun...when Michael did/said something off camera..its a matter of opinion whether it was in fun....the only facts are what the reactions to these are..everything else is an opinion and of course there will be biased opinions...most opinions are

[Kizzy]

what if you are resting and some old woman thrusts her spanial ears in your face...how mature is that?....discuss

[Pyramid*]

No it is not valid. This is a case of fact, not opinion. It wasn't humorous in the slightest, well, maybe in an this-is-awkward-tv-but-it's-amusing kind of way, but when you take that aspect out of it and look at it seriously and maturely - Michael was rude and bad mannered. As I have said previously in this thread or another, if you pretended to snore in a classroom/lecture/meeting, you would be shown the door, as everybody knows how bad mannered and rude it is. How anybody could attempt to try and dispute that is just beyond me...because quite clearly you can't.

So let me get this straight, someone is quite blatantly baiting her, being rude and bad mannered and quite unfair, and she is supposed to just sit there and take it? How ridiculous. If she didn't tell him how rude he was being, no one else would have done...and someone had to do it. If someone is being rude, you call them up on it, and you are quite within your rights to be rude back to them. Ignoring them just allows them to bait you even more.


Three words Jack in response. Yes it is.

[Pyramid*]

I'm still not sure about the snoring because whatever Michael did/said was off camera but it's still a matter of opinion as to whetehr he was in the right or wrong...when Denise tried to jab Michael in the bedroom, which she did, it was on camera...its a matter of opinion whether it was in fun...when Denise pulled down Karissa's pj's and exposed her ass..its a matter of opinion whether it was in fun...when Michael did/said something off camera..its a matter of opinion whether it was in fun....the only facts are what the reactions to these are..everything else is an opinion and of course there will be biased opinions...most opinions are

Common sense hits the thread......

[Jack_]

Three words Jack in response. Yes it is.

Congratulations in bypassing everything else I posted as part of my counter argument, therefore proving you have no way of justifying your biased 'opinion'. I gave you the opportunity, and you know full well there's no way you can dispute this, so instead of attempting to reply - you chickened out and posted something baseless.

[rusticgal]

Dont know what he said or did but he and the twins were giggling like children.... So good on Denise for telling him he was rude and telling him where to go.

....of course the 'classy' twins sat there chewing gum with their mouths open...

Guess no surprise then that Michaels making wild accusations in the sunday papers...sore loser and Denise made him look the prize fool that he is...

[Pyramid*]

Congratulations in bypassing everything else I posted as part of my counter argument, therefore proving you have no way of justifying your biased 'opinion'. I gave you the opportunity, and you know full well there's no way you can dispute this, so instead of attempting to reply - you chickened out and posted something baseless.

There was nothing more to say. Three little words said it all Jack.

My (and anyone else's opinion) is as valid as yours. Difficult as you may find that to believe -but that's something known as FACT.

[Jack_]

There was nothing more to say. Three little words said it all Jack.

My (and anyone else's opinion) is as valid as yours. Difficult as you may find that to believe -but that's something known as FACT.

Of course there was, and I listed almost all of them in my reply. The example I made about lectures/meetings, the point I made that she shouldn't allow someone to bait her and the simple fact that it is well known that that sort of behaviour is bad mannered. You responded to absolutely none of them, when they were all valid, reasoned responses. You had the opportunity to respond and attempt to justify your point, but you didn't. And you didn't because you knew full well that you couldn't.

You're a master at bypassing points Pyramid but it doesn't wash with me I'm afraid. If you can't take on a simple, reasoned counter argument then yours is proven as baseless and falls flat on its face, showing that it is not a valid opinion.

[Pyramid*]

Of course there was, and I listed almost all of them in my reply. The example I made about lectures/meetings, the point I made that she shouldn't allow someone to bait her and the simple fact that it is well known that that sort of behaviour is bad mannered. You responded to absolutely none of them, when they were all valid, reasoned responses. You had the opportunity to respond and attempt to justify your point, but you didn't. And you didn't because you knew full well that you couldn't.

You're a master at bypassing points Pyramid but it doesn't wash with me I'm afraid. If you can't take on a simple, reasoned counter argument then yours is proven as baseless and falls flat on its face, showing that it is not a valid opinion.

Here is a thing you seem to have missed. I already have made my point several times over in earlier replies to you.

I don't have to put up paragraphs to get my message over. You simply aren't chosing to accept it - that therefore is your issue Jack, not mine.

[Jack_]

Here is a thing you seem to have missed. I already have made my point several times over in earlier replies to you.

I don't have to put up paragraphs to get my message over. You simply aren't chosing to accept it - that therefore is your issue Jack, not mine.

Please refer me to this post because the only replies from you to me that I have seen have been full of the same old 'this is my opinion, accept it' and 'it is valid' rubbish, without the need for any justifications or thought-out responses to the actual valid points that I raised in each of my counter arguments.

You haven't once responded to the examples and points I made specifically in direct response to you. Not once. You didn't even do it in this post that I am quoting here. As I have said, if you can't argue your point it is rendered void and baseless.

[Pyramid*]

Please refer me to this post because the only replies from you to me that I have seen have been full of the same old 'this is my opinion, accept it' and 'it is valid' rubbish, without the need for any justifications or thought-out responses to the actual valid points that I raised in each of my counter arguments.

You haven't once responded to the examples and points I made specifically in direct response to you. Not once. You didn't even do it in this post that I am quoting here. As I have said, if you can't argue your point it is rendered void and baseless.

I don't believe I am forced to have to argue the toss with you. That, Jack is my choice - I disagree with you - and I've stated why earlier. If you want an ongoing rammie with your paragraphs of the same stuff over and over: carry on. Don't be expecting me to reply in depth.

[Angus]

I don't believe I am forced to have to argue the toss with you. That, Jack is my choice - I disagree with you - and I've stated why earlier. If you want an ongoing rammie with your paragraphs of the same stuff over and over: carry on. Don't be expecting me to reply in depth.


Quite right Pyramid, life is too short. It's what's known as a circular argument, pointless and boring to the nth degree. I wouldn't be a*sed either:laugh:

[JonRC]

whatever you opinion of Michael or Denise, whoever you think should have won, the fact remains that she did win and he should have kept quiet during the interview - I don't care that he thought it was funny, I don't care that some here agree with him, it's a simple matter of manners.

Check my previous posts here, I wanted Denise out first, I certainly did NOT want her to win, but she did, and common decency would suggest EVERYONE just bite their tongue for 5 mins.

[Pyramid*]

Quite right Pyramid, life is too short. It's what's known as a circular argument, pointless and boring to the nth degree. I wouldn't be a*sed either:laugh:


Especially when I'm in dire need of a nice strong cuppa and a ciggie. :laugh:

[Jack_]

I don't believe I am forced to have to argue the toss with you. That, Jack is my choice - I disagree with you - and I've stated why earlier. If you want an ongoing rammie with your paragraphs of the same stuff over and over: carry on. Don't be expecting me to reply in depth.

:joker:

It's a sad state of affairs when you can't justify your point when a simple counter argument is made to you. Instead you turn to pointless excuses, yet we all know how capable you are of attempting to argue your point, so it's a shame when you choose to give up this easily. You have a frequent tendency to bypass important information and reasoned arguments that people make Pyramid, it just shows your side of the argument up really.

You can't reply in depth because...well, you can't reply in depth. I made indisputable points that you noted and chose not to respond to because you couldn't. If you've been proven wrong you should either accept and admit it or still attempt to respond, that's how I usually roll. Not ignoring valid points that people raise like a politician would.

[Pyramid*]

:joker:

It's a sad state of affairs when you can't justify your point when a simple counter argument is made to you. Instead you turn to pointless excuses, yet we all know how capable you are of attempting to argue your point, so it's a shame when you choose to give up this easily. You have a frequent tendency to bypass important information and reasoned arguments that people make Pyramid, it just shows your side of the argument up really.

You can't reply in depth because...well, you can't reply in depth. I made indisputable points that you noted and chose not to respond to because you couldn't. If you've been proven wrong you should either accept and admit it or still attempt to respond, that's how I usually roll. Not ignoring valid points that people raise like a politician would.

It shows nothing more than my considering you simply not worth arguing the toss with Jack.

The end.

[Jack_]

It shows nothing more than my considering you simply not worth arguing the toss with Jack.

The end.

Yet again, more bypassing. You're a master at this game aren't you?

I guess I win. The end.

[Wayne-Kerr]

There was nothing more to say. Three little words said it all Jack.

My (and anyone else's opinion) is as valid as yours. Difficult as you may find that to believe -but that's something known as FACT.

Here's how we'll settle this. Your opinion is valid, but wrong.

All sorted. :)

[Pyramid*]

Here's how we'll settle this. Your opinion is valid, but wrong.

All sorted. :)

I like your user name. Pick it yourself did you...

[Wayne-Kerr]

I like your user name. Pick it yourself did you...

Yeah, I'm clever like that.

[Incensed]

Yet again, more bypassing. You're a master at this game aren't you?

I guess I win. The end.

Do you know, I rather think you did :hugesmile:

[Pyramid*]

Yeah, I'm clever like that.

Was Juan taken?

Do you know, I rather think you did :hugesmile:

I KNOW he didn't. :hugesmile:

[Incensed]

Was Juan taken?



I KNOW he didn't. :hugesmile:


:joker:

Enjoy life in 'Pyramid land' :hugesmile:

[Pyramid*]

:joker:

Enjoy life in 'Pyramid land' :hugesmile:

I'm enjoying it fine in the UK.

[Incensed]

I'm enjoying it fine in the UK.

Yeah, well we do have freedom of speech here!

[Pyramid*]

Yeah, well we do have freedom of speech here!

Exactly and it was that freedom of speech here in the UK that Michael was exercising his right to on BOTS the other night.

[Incensed]

Exactly and it was that freedom of speech here in the UK that Michael was exercising his right to on BOTS the other night.

Err, yeah ok. Snoring is a very intelligent form of communication!

But then if we are to believe your thoughts on the matter, without Michael being in the house there would have been no footage of Denise to be shown on the show :joker:

[Jack_]

I KNOW he didn't. :hugesmile:

No, you KNOW I did.

And the reason? Because I managed to produce valid, reasoned points, leaving you with no way to respond. You were proven wrong I'm afraid.

Err, yeah ok. Snoring is a very intelligent form of communication!

:joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker:

[Pyramid*]

Err, yeah ok. Snoring is a very intelligent form of communication!

But then if we are to believe your thoughts on the matter, without Michael being in the house there would have been no footage of Denise to be shown on the show :joker:

Yep, that about sums it up. :joker:

[Jack_]

Yep, that about sums it up. :joker:

Because of course, Gareth and Michael were the ones that started 'pantsgate' (the most entertaining moment of the series), not Denise :crazy:

[Incensed]

Yep, that about sums it up. :joker:

So, they wouldn't of course shown the footage of the Jacuzzi or the 'Girls night in' then?
:hugesmile:

[Pyramid*]

So, they wouldn't of course shown the footage of the Jacuzzi or the 'Girls night in' then?
:hugesmile:

Who knows....... you might want to ask BB's camera crew/ production crew about that.....

[Pyramid*]

Because of course, Gareth and Michael were the ones that started 'pantsgate' (the most entertaining moment of the series), not Denise :crazy:

Perhaps you regard a 53 year old woman exposing a young woman on tv as entertainment. I don't.

[Incensed]

Who knows....... you might want to ask BB's camera crew/ production crew about that.....

Is that the best you can come up with? :joker:

You're just showing yourself up now, Pyramid. :hugesmile: You know full well that they would have have shown Denise in the Jacuzzi and the 'girls night in' :joker:

[Jack_]

Perhaps you regard a 53 year old woman exposing a young woman on tv as entertainment. I don't.

No, but I regarded the resulting argument as fantastic entertainment. It created discussions, led to days and days of debate (some of which is still continuing to this day) and had many people talking. That is entertainment. That is what makes an entertaining housemates. These are not things that can be disputed.

Imagine the series without that argument, without Denise and Michael's constant spats. What other events were there? Because I certainly can't remember any, most discussions focused on these events. Therefore, it was entertainment, and Michael, Denise, the twins and Nicola were all very much entertaining housemates.

If we had you in charge of the show none of the argument would have been broadcast, and only the clips of the housemates having a tea party would have been shown. Imagine that, eh? :sleep:

[Kizzy]

pantsgate was not entertainment...it was akward uncomfortable viewing...as were all such issues lets not kid ourselves.

[Jack_]

pantsgate was not entertainment...it was akward uncomfortable viewing...as were all such issues lets not kid ourselves.

:crazy:

It was amazing TV, and the resulting discussions ever since have proved that. You wouldn't see those type of discussions if Gareth had eaten a biscuit. Events like that are crucial and beneficial to the success of the show, it gets people talking and generates interesting. If there's nothing to discuss, there's no show.

[Kizzy]

the little figure is uncalled for as you post suggests you are lucid, i did not feel that any aspect of those senarios were 'amazing' more 'tragic' to be fair. If housemates cannot gemerate interest without abusing each other its time to pull the plug...i dont want to see how far some celeb will go for 2 mins of airtime.. Am i watching the wrong show? is this how it it and ever will be now?..

[Jack_]

the little figure is uncalled for as you post suggests you are lucid, i did not feel that any aspect of those senarios were 'amazing' more 'tragic' to be fair. If housemates cannot gemerate interest without abusing each other its time to pull the plug...i dont want to see how far some celeb will go for 2 mins of airtime.. Am i watching the wrong show? is this how it it and ever will be now?..

What else is there to be discussed? In every series almost every discussion has centred around an argument, romance (or fauxmance), ongoing feud or mishaps during a party. It's very difficult to discuss in depth something like a task or housemates eating dinner...there's not much to say. It's essential that the housemates contribute something of interest in order for everyone to talk about it. If they don't, then of course there's nothing to discuss and the series is rendered boring, nobody watches and then...ta-da, our beloved Big Brother is gone.

If you were living in there, you'd want there to be peace. But none of us are, and as viewers we want to see storylines develop, and that includes arguments, feuds, bitchiness etc. That way we all have something to talk about on forums like these. If we don't, well...then the show fails, that's the bottom line of it really.

[Kizzy]

it may be, unless in this case it was not that simple was it?...the clash of personalities is what makes BB fun and interesting...However , if you have one HM who dislikes the other and it not be accepted makes for the uncomfortable situation we witnessed. I feel he gave her many chances to accept he was just another HM but she was equally as determined there was something more...#embarrassing

[Jack_]

it may be, unless in this case it was not that simple was it?...the clash of personalities is what makes BB fun and interesting...However , if you have one HM who dislikes the other and it not be accepted makes for the uncomfortable situation we witnessed. I feel he gave her many chances to accept he was just another HM but she was equally as determined there was something more...#embarrassing

...but that's brilliant TV. Because as a result, everyone starts debating whether she fancies him, who's in the right, who's in the wrong etc. It's all part of the fun. The real problem is when people let whichever side they take in a certain argument dictate which housemates they are going to like, that's just foolish. For example, during the Denise/twins saga, I was on the twins side, as I'm of the belief that you do not pull someone's trousers down. However, if it weren't for Denise, the best argument of the series would not have occurred, and as such, there would not have been so many discussions about it. Therefore I don't let the fact that I sided with the twins on this particular issue make me dislike Denise, or want her to be evicted, as that would just be stupid. And sadly, a lot of people seem to do this instead of realising that even though you may not agree with someone's actions...their actions are beneficial to the success of the show and how entertaining it is.

[Wayne-Kerr]

Was Juan taken?

Not sure, but it'd sound a bit too much like Willy Wonka if I'd used that.

[Pyramid*]

No, but I regarded the resulting argument as fantastic entertainment. It created discussions, led to days and days of debate (some of which is still continuing to this day) and had many people talking. That is entertainment. That is what makes an entertaining housemates. These are not things that can be disputed.

Imagine the series without that argument, without Denise and Michael's constant spats. What other events were there? Because I certainly can't remember any, most discussions focused on these events. Therefore, it was entertainment, and Michael, Denise, the twins and Nicola were all very much entertaining housemates.

If we had you in charge of the show none of the argument would have been broadcast, and only the clips of the housemates having a tea party would have been shown. Imagine that, eh? :sleep:

when ARE you going to learn that what you think, what you feel, what you believe is your own view, and not fact. I'll certainly dispute from here to hell and back that pulling down someones trousers was as far removed from being classed as 'fantastic entertainment', as you put it. It is churlish, childish and pathetic behaviour - not fantastic entertaiment - that's my view and I'm intelligent and mature enough to realise that my view in this, is not fact.

Try to avoid getting personal Jack - we are not discussing fms here - we are discussing the show and the housemates - feel free to criticise them, but save your petty insults / critique /criticism for that direction and not towards me.

[WozMan]

To me the whole Denise Michael thing started when she failed to respect his obvious habit of spending some alone time in the bedroom. Even then if she had just spoken to him respectfully and not badgered and harangued him with the same question over and over it would have been ok. She harrassed him about what he was doing in the diary room when it was obvious to me it was something he did NOT want to discuss with the housemates. The guy just wanted to be alone for a while and she could not comprehend this fact. To be honest she reminded me of Tashie: extremely needy and a bit of a mess

The incident at the final interview was rude in my opinion. Chatting over an interview on television would get you fired if not blacklisted as a production worker. However Denise was the one who trampled over Michael's boundries in the house first and he was continuing the dynamic which had been established between them.

On the circular argument in this thread:
Something I have come to realise is that personal rules of conduct vary greatly from family to family, culture to culture, group to group. What is outright rude to one group is acceptable and hilarious to another. It seems Michael's behaviour breaks Jack and Wayne's personal rules but not Pyramid's

[tonyface]

I think he was struggling to understand why she was so adored, versus the Denise that he had to put up with in the house, and got angry.....

[Ammi]

Based on the premise that questionable behaviour provides entertainment....Denise v Michael, Denise v twins, Denise v Nicola..I see how Denise won. Denise telling Michael to '**** off' in her interview seems to have provoked the most interest, therefore, Michael being the catalyst to that in whatever happened off camera, I think I can safely say the interview belonged to Michael. I wouldn't like to criticise him for being rude, when he was, after all, just entertaining....

[Angus]

I think he was struggling to understand why she was so adored, versus the Denise that he had to put up with in the house, and got angry.....

There's a lot of us struggling with that one:idc:

[Pyramid*]

To me the whole Denise Michael thing started when she failed to respect his obvious habit of spending some alone time in the bedroom. Even then if she had just spoken to him respectfully and not badgered and harangued him with the same question over and over it would have been ok. She harrassed him about what he was doing in the diary room when it was obvious to me it was something he did NOT want to discuss with the housemates. The guy just wanted to be alone for a while and she could not comprehend this fact. To be honest she reminded me of Tashie: extremely needy and a bit of a mess

The incident at the final interview was rude in my opinion. Chatting over an interview on television would get you fired if not blacklisted as a production worker. However Denise was the one who trampled over Michael's boundries in the house first and he was continuing the dynamic which had been established between them.

On the circular argument in this thread:
Something I have come to realise is that personal rules of conduct vary greatly from family to family, culture to culture, group to group. What is outright rude to one group is acceptable and hilarious to another. It seems Michael's behaviour breaks Jack and Wayne's personal rules but not Pyramid's


Correct and the very reason for that, is precisely what you mentioned yourself which I have highlighted in red. She showed absolutely no respect for Michael - from early days in the house - therefore she shouldn't start moaning and 'effing off' when he treats her the way she felt it appropriate to treat him for weeks.

[Jules2]

Not. Denise started again and he defended himself

Well said, I reckon she had had the news that her story had been broken to the press...she took all her anger out on Michael because she knew that he didnt want anything to do with her. She was a bad winner, never seen anything like it before.

[Jules2]

Correct and the very reason for that, is precisely what you mentioned yourself which I have highlighted in red. She showed absolutely no respect for Michael - from early days in the house - therefore she shouldn't start moaning and 'effing off' when he treats her the way she felt it appropriate to treat him for weeks.

I still say it was a deflection from her own troubles, she has a habit of doing that. She droned on and on about how wonderful she was etc. etc. I kept on thinking oh Denise for goodness sake shut up. Emma let her go on, when Michael clicked his mouth he wasnt even looking at her but she was slagging him off as usual. I wouldnt have blamed him had he walked out.

[Jules2]

There's a lot of us struggling with that one:idc:

I dont think he even looked angry tbh, I have had a look at the clip over and over again. He was bored but Denise kept on looking over, there was quite a bit of commotion going on. She had the chair but did that give her the right to down Michael? Not one of the others came out really being viscious as she was, they had respect for themselves but Denise wanted to deflect the blame for all things onto him. The same as she says we are not worried about the story breaking, we are concentrating on Tim's birthday party? Mmmm so because it was his birthday does that mean she shouldnt take responsibility for her actions? Has she hypnotised him and a lot of the public?

[Jules2]

Err, yeah ok. Snoring is a very intelligent form of communication!

But then if we are to believe your thoughts on the matter, without Michael being in the house there would have been no footage of Denise to be shown on the show :joker:

There is nothing to show on the footage to the effect of him snoring. He clicked his mouth but turned away from Denise, possibly through boredom. It was Denise who said he was snoring. We didnt actually see it. He did tell her to calm down, words to that effect and he did mouth something like "I didnt say anything". It seems to me that Denise's actions are all considered as a joke, because she says so, but let anyone else do it then that is wrong.

Michael, the Twins and Nicola gave Denise her stage other than that she was in the coven with Natalie and a couple of others working out the demise of the other HMs when it came to nominations. After all though that is the name of the game. Oh I forgot about the chacuzzi (spelling).....

[Suze]

I dont think he even looked angry tbh, I have had a look at the clip over and over again. He was bored but Denise kept on looking over, there was quite a bit of commotion going on. She had the chair but did that give her the right to down Michael? Not one of the others came out really being viscious as she was, they had respect for themselves but Denise wanted to deflect the blame for all things onto him. The same as she says we are not worried about the story breaking, we are concentrating on Tim's birthday party? Mmmm so because it was his birthday does that mean she shouldnt take responsibility for her actions? Has she hypnotised him and a lot of the public?

She may have won a Celeb version, but to be honest I don't really care as I doubt much will come of it than the usual mag deals etc; she would likely have got with or without winning. I don't watch Loose Women, and can easily avoid anything else she is in or on, and I don't buy rags and mags :)

I suppose one thing about all the other Celebs that took part is they can now watch back this CBB if they choose to and see how Denise manipulated them into believing Michael was the one in the wrong during that series re: her, when he wasn't. I expect a few of them will now feel rather silly being taken in by her.

[Jules2]

What? That never happened at all.

The interview was running smoothly, no comments about Michael had been made by Denise. Emma was then about to ask some questions about Michael, when in the audience it became apparent that Michael himself was pretending to snore - which is out and out rudeness. Denise called him up on it, saying it was 'bad sportsmanship', which it is, he continued, shouted a bit - and so Denise quite rightfully told him to '**** off'. That is how it happened - Michael started it all.

It is not an opinion. It was rudeness from Michael, and that's the bottom line of it.

She was running him down constantly she couldnt let it go, she couldnt get over the fact that he didnt like her......She has to be liked by everyone to allow her to cope with life.

[Jules2]

No it is not valid. This is a case of fact, not opinion. It wasn't humorous in the slightest, well, maybe in an this-is-awkward-tv-but-it's-amusing kind of way, but when you take that aspect out of it and look at it seriously and maturely - Michael was rude and bad mannered. As I have said previously in this thread or another, if you pretended to snore in a classroom/lecture/meeting, you would be shown the door, as everybody knows how bad mannered and rude it is. How anybody could attempt to try and dispute that is just beyond me...because quite clearly you can't.

So let me get this straight, someone is quite blatantly baiting her, being rude and bad mannered and quite unfair, and she is supposed to just sit there and take it? How ridiculous. If she didn't tell him how rude he was being, no one else would have done...and someone had to do it. If someone is being rude, you call them up on it, and you are quite within your rights to be rude back to them. Ignoring them just allows them to bait you even more.

So it was ok for her to bait him? Had she acted in a ladylike manner (lol) she could have proven herself a greater person than him instead of which she let herself down big time. It was her favourite pastime baiting Michael and then going around in the house saying how unreasonable he was. He even asked the help of BB with her. Had he been harassing her he would have been thrown out and booed, look at what happened to Shree, but thereagain he was a male. Had he pulled someones trousers down, there would have been an uproar. One of the Jedward twins was pulled up because he twanged someones bikin bottom. He shouldnt have done it and neither should Denise have done so. Many took her side though as they are doing now with the BOTS thing. BB know what they are doing, they should have perhaps realised how fragile Denise appeard to be and not to have kept on bringing up the fact of Michael. Michael managed not to go into to much detail although his words said it all. She went on and on with her poor little me act.

Michael was the winner where BOTS was concerned, her face looked evil at one stage. Her past was catching up with her. Sad tbh I hope she manages to overcome it all and find peace within herself without having to sell herself so much.

[Jules2]

Dont know what he said or did but he and the twins were giggling like children.... So good on Denise for telling him he was rude and telling him where to go.

....of course the 'classy' twins sat there chewing gum with their mouths open...

Guess no surprise then that Michaels making wild accusations in the sunday papers...sore loser and Denise made him look the prize fool that he is...

I think it is Denise who has been made to look the prize Charlie, I wonder who gave the piece about her toyboy to the paper. Could it be someone who dislikes her or possibly one of her own gang? The evidence was obvious according to the edits, many believe Michael. Denise is once again trying to deflect her anguish and putting it on another instead of owning up and facing her demons. She told one of the HMs that she had asked Michael for his favours but then she says she was only joking? So she is allowed to joke wow and no one else? Her jokes were abusive if they werent accepted. Her constant behaviour toward him was disgusting imo.

I have to admit it I hate it when people chew gum on these programmes but they have assumedly been offered a tv show in UK so they must have a lot of support somewhere. Well done to them I hope it pays off. I hope we see more of Michael as well.

[Jules2]

...but that's brilliant TV. Because as a result, everyone starts debating whether she fancies him, who's in the right, who's in the wrong etc. It's all part of the fun. The real problem is when people let whichever side they take in a certain argument dictate which housemates they are going to like, that's just foolish. For example, during the Denise/twins saga, I was on the twins side, as I'm of the belief that you do not pull someone's trousers down. However, if it weren't for Denise, the best argument of the series would not have occurred, and as such, there would not have been so many discussions about it. Therefore I don't let the fact that I sided with the twins on this particular issue make me dislike Denise, or want her to be evicted, as that would just be stupid. And sadly, a lot of people seem to do this instead of realising that even though you may not agree with someone's actions...their actions are beneficial to the success of the show and how entertaining it is.

But is it good tv if we watch the demise of one person who cannot accept the responsiblity of growing older? I am all for a few rows etc. but this was cringeworthy and not acceptable. BB should watch more carefully who they put in the house, look what happened to Shree, he tried to commit suicide after the house finished. Not good at all, what happened with Anthony and the other one who constantly harassed him, cringeworthy stuff. Not good tv.

We need a balance of nominations, tasks, fallouts but not to watch someone deteriorate because she isnt accepted by one HM whom she was harassing.

[calyman]

The straight to DVD actor was wrong, and for anyone to say Denise was in the wrong is either trolling or blinkered by their dislike for her.
What were you saying about trolling and being blinkered by dislike of (in this case, Michael)?

[Livia]

The straight to DVD actor was wrong, and for anyone to say Denise was in the wrong is either trolling or blinkered by their dislike for her.

I was going to go on about Madsen and his film history, and the Tarantino connection and all the rest of it... then I noticed the poster's name and realised I didn't have to.

[Jack_]

when ARE you going to learn that what you think, what you feel, what you believe is your own view, and not fact. I'll certainly dispute from here to hell and back that pulling down someones trousers was as far removed from being classed as 'fantastic entertainment', as you put it. It is churlish, childish and pathetic behaviour - not fantastic entertaiment - that's my view and I'm intelligent and mature enough to realise that my view in this, is not fact.

Try to avoid getting personal Jack - we are not discussing fms here - we are discussing the show and the housemates - feel free to criticise them, but save your petty insults / critique /criticism for that direction and not towards me.

But it isn't my view, it's not an opinion and it almost certainly is fact. At the end of the day, the incident created hundreds and hundreds of discussion threads on here, DS, many other forums, social networking sites and in real life. Now to a show like Big Brother do you realise how beneficial and essential it is to have talking points? Just try to comprehend for a second what it would be like if there were no incidents to discuss, no arguments, no feuds, nothing. Absolutely nothing. Where would the threads come from? How would shows like Bit On The Side survive? How would the entire show survive? And the answer? It wouldn't. Because the entire show relies on interesting, entertaining, controversial housemates to create interesting discussion points. Without them, the show fails. They are absolutely crucial to the success of a show like Big Brother. Crucial. This is one hundred percent not a case of 'this is your opinion', and sadly, a lot of people don't realise this and fail to think about it logically. Whilst you may not agree with the actions that Denise carried out, or perhaps other housemates - the consequences of their actions led to fantastic TV and debates, all of which are still continuing to this day. See...even this thread is an example. We wouldn't be having this discussion now if it weren't for Denise, Michael and even the twins and Nicola. By virtue of you (or anyone else) even talking about Denise, or any of the other housemates involved in any kind of interesting action in the house, you have or are being entertained by them. That's how it works. It is not an opinion, it is a fact.

She was running him down constantly she couldnt let it go, she couldnt get over the fact that he didnt like her......She has to be liked by everyone to allow her to cope with life.

No she wasn't...she didn't mention him until asked by Emma. What is she supposed to do, ignore her?

So it was ok for her to bait him? Had she acted in a ladylike manner (lol) she could have proven herself a greater person than him instead of which she let herself down big time. It was her favourite pastime baiting Michael and then going around in the house saying how unreasonable he was. He even asked the help of BB with her. Had he been harassing her he would have been thrown out and booed, look at what happened to Shree, but thereagain he was a male. Had he pulled someones trousers down, there would have been an uproar. One of the Jedward twins was pulled up because he twanged someones bikin bottom. He shouldnt have done it and neither should Denise have done so. Many took her side though as they are doing now with the BOTS thing. BB know what they are doing, they should have perhaps realised how fragile Denise appeard to be and not to have kept on bringing up the fact of Michael. Michael managed not to go into to much detail although his words said it all. She went on and on with her poor little me act.

Michael was the winner where BOTS was concerned, her face looked evil at one stage. Her past was catching up with her. Sad tbh I hope she manages to overcome it all and find peace within herself without having to sell herself so much.

We can all have our own opinions on the incident when looking at it from a realistic, moralistic perspective, but the fact of the matter is it was great TV.

And I'm sorry, but at no point had Denise 'baited' Michael on the night of the final during her Bit On The Side interview. It all started when Michael started pretending to snore, something which in a large majority of places around the world is considered poor manners and very rude. Let's be honest, as I have already mentioned, if you were to do that in a working environment or a lecture you would be thrown out with no hesitation. There are no excuses for it.

But is it good tv if we watch the demise of one person who cannot accept the responsiblity of growing older? I am all for a few rows etc. but this was cringeworthy and not acceptable. BB should watch more carefully who they put in the house, look what happened to Shree, he tried to commit suicide after the house finished. Not good at all, what happened with Anthony and the other one who constantly harassed him, cringeworthy stuff. Not good tv.

We need a balance of nominations, tasks, fallouts but not to watch someone deteriorate because she isnt accepted by one HM whom she was harassing.

Yes. Yes it is, I'm afraid. Call me sadistic, but whilst I did feel sorry for Denise at times (and some of the other housemates), when you look at it from a birds eye perspective (as everyone who watches Big Brother should do), the resulting actions led to days and days of great debate and IMO, unmissable, interesting television. It is these sorts of incidents that benefit the show and give us all something to talk about. And as such, we should all thank Michael, Denise, the twins and Nicola for their great contributions to what was a fantastic series.

[Ammi]

Michael's 'input' to Denise's interview has provided discussions and debates therefore it is also 'entertainment' as it set's the interview apart from any other winner interview.....it can't be one without the other. If Denise wasn't 'rude' when she attempted to jab Michael in the house and she wasn't 'rude' or in BB's words 'inappropriate' when she pulled down Karissa's clothing, if it simply provided entertainment, or more, I think controversy, which it did...no matter on what your opinion are...the same has to apply over the interview. I'm still not sure how other's have seen what I haven't (snoring) as it was off camera and I've replayed it, but whatever it was, it should only be described as rude if the same is fairly applied to Denise...imo, at worst I would say controversial....and with any controversial behaviour, as Denise is guilty of also...people are naturally going to have strong opinions

[Jack_]

Michael's 'input' to Denise's interview has provided discussions and debates therefore it is also 'entertainment' as it set's the interview apart from any other winner interview.....it can't be one without the other. If Denise wasn't 'rude' when she attempted to jab Michael in the house and she wasn't 'rude' or in BB's words 'inappropriate' when she pulled down Karissa's clothing, if it simply provided entertainment, or more, I think controversy, which it did...no matter on what your opinion are...the same has to apply over the interview. I'm still not sure how other's have seen what I haven't (snoring) as it was off camera and I've replayed it, but whatever it was, it should only be described as rude if the same is fairly applied to Denise...imo, at worst I would say controversial....and with any controversial behaviour, as Denise is guilty of also...people are naturally going to have strong opinions

Of course the interview was entertaining. In fact, I made it clear in one of the first threads about this incident that I laughed, cringed and then felt awkward. So yes, this was also entertaining. But when you step back and look at it properly and realistically, Michael was out of order. The snoring isn't easily audible, but you can hear it if you try hard enough. Even so, the biggest clue is the fact that the camera keeps panning to where Michael is sitting, and you can see him making facial expressions that resemble someone who is attempting to pretend to snore, you can almost see it coming before Denise pulls him up on it.

[Ammi]

Of course the interview was entertaining. In fact, I made it clear in one of the first threads about this incident that I laughed, cringed and then felt awkward. So yes, this was also entertaining. But when you step back and look at it properly and realistically, Michael was out of order. The snoring isn't easily audible, but you can hear it if you try hard enough. Even so, the biggest clue is the fact that the camera keeps panning to where Michael is sitting, and you can see him making facial expressions that resemble someone who is attempting to pretend to snore, you can almost see it coming before Denise pulls him up on it.

Imo, I do think this will just go round in circles because if Michael was out of order, and I accept your opinion on that, then several previous incidents in the house instigated by Denise or her behaviour were also out of order, so people will be indignant that Michael is considered rude whereas Denise entertaining...I think Denise's expression is she assumes people will 'get her', maybe Michael was displaying his sense of humour in the interview and some didn't 'get it'...so they assumed it was rude...doesn't mean it was, anymore or less than anything Denise has done...doesn't mean it wasn't either.....it's opinion...and that's all anyone can say because there are situations in the outside world were the tampering of Karissa's clothing would be taken a lot more seriously....but it wasn't the outside world it was the BB house and it wasn't a lecture hall...it was the BB studio and involved two people who have no love lost between them...but opinions will continue, I'm sure.
...I don't normally bother posting in this section once it's over, so the subjects closed for me.....I don't mean that rudely, but it's been a full on three weeks of CBB...and I'm moving on

[Jack_]

Imo, I do think this will just go round in circles because if Michael was out of order, and I accept your opinion on that, then several previous incidents in the house instigated by Denise or her behaviour were also out of order, so people will be indignant that Michael is considered rude whereas Denise entertaining...I think Denise's expression is she assumes people will 'get her', maybe Michael was displaying his sense of humour in the interview and some didn't 'get it'...so they assumed it was rude...doesn't mean it was, anymore or less than anything Denise has done...doesn't mean it wasn't either.....it's opinion...and that's all anyone can say because there are situations in the outside world were the tampering of Karissa's clothing would be taken a lot more seriously....but it wasn't the outside world it was the BB house and it wasn't a lecture hall...it was the BB studio and involved two people who have no love lost between them...but opinions will continue, I'm sure.
...I don't normally bother posting in this section once it's over, so the subjects closed for me.....I don't mean that rudely, but it's been a full on three weeks of CBB...and I'm moving on

Well this seems a bit pointless replying to you, but...

To explain it simply, Michael was rude on the night. Denise was rude many a time towards him inside the house. All of this (both Michael and Denise's incidents) was entertaining. But however, Denise's actions inside the house does not at all entitle Michael to then pretend to snore during her Bit On The Side winner's interview. It's the height of rudeness and I'm afraid it is not something that anybody can have an 'opinion' on. It is without question rude and bad mannered, it doesn't come down to people's own views, it is just simply rude. And yes, before some fellow Michael fan (yes, I'm a Michael fan) pulls me up on it - a lot of the things Denise did to Michael in the house were rude, and I'm not saying they were right either - but those incidents do not permit Michael to be extremely rude to her during the interview. Two wrongs do not make a right as the saying goes, if anything he has lowered himself to her level.

[WozMan]

Pretending to snore in class will NOT automatically get you kicked out. I've done it in an opportune situation and even got a laugh out of the teacher!

[Jules2]

Michael did nothing wrong - She's got such a big ego- how dare he speak while she's being interviewed:rolleyes:

Have been reading different posts in different places, the response to Denise has been mostly astronomically bad. It seems that Denise told one person that she could get anyone she wants to. If this is true and I guess we will never know, then this was the trouble, she didnt get Michael so she tried her hardest to bring him down at every chance she had. She is on loose women tomorrow, it will be interesting to see what she has to say. Perhaps she could just give it all a rest and try at least to be a gracious winner which, many know, she isnt. Michael acted with dignity.

[Jules2]

Well this seems a bit pointless replying to you, but...

To explain it simply, Michael was rude on the night. Denise was rude many a time towards him inside the house. All of this (both Michael and Denise's incidents) was entertaining. But however, Denise's actions inside the house does not at all entitle Michael to then pretend to snore during her Bit On The Side winner's interview. It's the height of rudeness and I'm afraid it is not something that anybody can have an 'opinion' on. It is without question rude and bad mannered, it doesn't come down to people's own views, it is just simply rude. And yes, before some fellow Michael fan (yes, I'm a Michael fan) pulls me up on it - a lot of the things Denise did to Michael in the house were rude, and I'm not saying they were right either - but those incidents do not permit Michael to be extremely rude to her during the interview. Two wrongs do not make a right as the saying goes, if anything he has lowered himself to her level.

but we didnt see or hear him snore, we only have Denise's word for that at the moment.

[Cherie]

but we didnt see or hear him snore, we only have Denise's word for that at the moment.



:hugesmile: and therein lies the lesson.

[Jules2]

But it isn't my view, it's not an opinion and it almost certainly is fact. At the end of the day, the incident created hundreds and hundreds of discussion threads on here, DS, many other forums, social networking sites and in real life. Now to a show like Big Brother do you realise how beneficial and essential it is to have talking points? Just try to comprehend for a second what it would be like if there were no incidents to discuss, no arguments, no feuds, nothing. Absolutely nothing. Where would the threads come from? How would shows like Bit On The Side survive? How would the entire show survive? And the answer? It wouldn't. Because the entire show relies on interesting, entertaining, controversial housemates to create interesting discussion points. Without them, the show fails. They are absolutely crucial to the success of a show like Big Brother. Crucial. This is one hundred percent not a case of 'this is your opinion', and sadly, a lot of people don't realise this and fail to think about it logically. Whilst you may not agree with the actions that Denise carried out, or perhaps other housemates - the consequences of their actions led to fantastic TV and debates, all of which are still continuing to this day. See...even this thread is an example. We wouldn't be having this discussion now if it weren't for Denise, Michael and even the twins and Nicola. By virtue of you (or anyone else) even talking about Denise, or any of the other housemates involved in any kind of interesting action in the house, you have or are being entertained by them. That's how it works. It is not an opinion, it is a fact.



No she wasn't...she didn't mention him until asked by Emma. What is she supposed to do, ignore her?



We can all have our own opinions on the incident when looking at it from a realistic, moralistic perspective, but the fact of the matter is it was great TV.

And I'm sorry, but at no point had Denise 'baited' Michael on the night of the final during her Bit On The Side interview. It all started when Michael started pretending to snore, something which in a large majority of places around the world is considered poor manners and very rude. Let's be honest, as I have already mentioned, if you were to do that in a working environment or a lecture you would be thrown out with no hesitation. There are no excuses for it.



Yes. Yes it is, I'm afraid. Call me sadistic, but whilst I did feel sorry for Denise at times (and some of the other housemates), when you look at it from a birds eye perspective (as everyone who watches Big Brother should do), the resulting actions led to days and days of great debate and IMO, unmissable, interesting television. It is these sorts of incidents that benefit the show and give us all something to talk about. And as such, we should all thank Michael, Denise, the twins and Nicola for their great contributions to what was a fantastic series.

If we look at it properly we didnt hear or see him snore, he turned his face away from Denise and clicked his mouth, that wasnt a snore and tbh Denise was droning on and on and on and :sleep:

I know what you are saying re good entertainment but I still do not like to see a person crumble, or perhaps she was acting? As Denise said though, if anything went wrong, she was only joking so......There arent a lot of good views about her on line but we are each entitled to our own opinion as we know.

I will stand by my ground and say Michael was not disrespectful to her in a nasty way (lol isnt that what she said and what Emma agreed that she was not being disrespectful by pulling the pants down, naturally though that is ok for Madam Denise :sleep:), maybe he was joking? I doubt whether many will accept that as it wasnt Denise, I personally think he was as bored with her droning as I was.

The presenters should have known better than to fuel the fire especially as Denise had had the news about someone spilling the beans to the Sunday papers, I bet she was fuming. Still I guess everything is ok for Denise.....Time will tell how she handles herself but whatever she will blame others for her demise if she cannot cope with her inner self and her demons.

[Angus]

If we look at it properly we didnt hear or see him snore, he turned his face away from Denise and clicked his mouth, that wasnt a snore and tbh Denise was droning on and on and on and :sleep:

I know what you are saying re good entertainment but I still do not like to see a person crumble, or perhaps she was acting? As Denise said though, if anything went wrong, she was only joking so......There arent a lot of good views about her on line but we are each entitled to our own opinion as we know.

I will stand by my ground and say Michael was not disrespectful to her in a nasty way (lol isnt that what she said and what Emma agreed that she was not being disrespectful by pulling the pants down, naturally though that is ok for Madam Denise :sleep:), maybe he was joking? I doubt whether many will accept that as it wasnt Denise, I personally think he was as bored with her droning as I was.

The presenters should have known better than to fuel the fire especially as Denise had had the news about someone spilling the beans to the Sunday papers, I bet she was fuming. Still I guess everything is ok for Denise.....Time will tell how she handles herself but whatever she will blame others for her demise if she cannot cope with her inner self and her demons.


Apparently Denise said she has beaten her demons, beaten her alcohol addiction and beaten her depression. She lied on all three counts. I'm sick of everyone defending poor ickle Denise, when Michael who has also had to fight his demons, beat his alcohol addiction and depression, has not droned on and on about it, and copes with it on a daily basis without trying to milk the sympathy vote. No-one has cut him any slack have they?

[Jack_]

but we didnt see or hear him snore, we only have Denise's word for that at the moment.

If we look at it properly we didnt hear or see him snore, he turned his face away from Denise and clicked his mouth, that wasnt a snore and tbh Denise was droning on and on and on and :sleep:

I know what you are saying re good entertainment but I still do not like to see a person crumble, or perhaps she was acting? As Denise said though, if anything went wrong, she was only joking so......There arent a lot of good views about her on line but we are each entitled to our own opinion as we know.

I will stand by my ground and say Michael was not disrespectful to her in a nasty way (lol isnt that what she said and what Emma agreed that she was not being disrespectful by pulling the pants down, naturally though that is ok for Madam Denise :sleep:), maybe he was joking? I doubt whether many will accept that as it wasnt Denise, I personally think he was as bored with her droning as I was.

The presenters should have known better than to fuel the fire especially as Denise had had the news about someone spilling the beans to the Sunday papers, I bet she was fuming. Still I guess everything is ok for Denise.....Time will tell how she handles herself but whatever she will blame others for her demise if she cannot cope with her inner self and her demons.

You could see and hear him snoring :crazy:

Plus, the reaction of the audience showed he was obviously making some kind of rude noise or gesture, and the faces of some of the other housemates, like Nicola, were not impressed at all. They all speak for themselves really, it's pretty damn obvious he was making some kind of noise, let's not go as far as to try and attempt to say he wasn't now...