Homosexuality in football

[Shaun]

Interesting article written by Amal Fashanu here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16722196

Apparently a documentary airing on BBC3 on Monday too.

There are currently around 5,000 professional footballers in Britain, but none are openly gay. Amal Fashanu, niece of Justin Fashanu, asks why no gay player has followed in her uncle's boots in nearly 25 years.

My late uncle, Justin Fashanu remains the only professional footballer in Britain ever to come out publicly as gay.

Justin broke into football as a teenage prodigy at Norwich. In 1980 he won the BBC's goal of the season award for an incredible strike against Liverpool. I still feel a surge of family pride every time I watch it.

It's the casual celebration which always gets me. That was Justin. Effortlessly talented, effortlessly stylish, if a touch cocky.

But what I learned about Justin is that, sadly, "that goal" marked the high point of his career.

He was catapulted to fame, when Nottingham Forest paid a million pound-transfer fee to Norwich. But it was largely downhill from there.

Justin Fashanu was brought up by foster parents and the children's charity Barnardo's
Signed to Norwich City at the age of 14, by his late teens he had risen to the first team
In the early 1980s, he was a rising star at Norwich City and scored a famous goal against Liverpool
At Norwich he made it to the England B team
In 1981 he became the first black player to command a £1m transfer fee
Came out as gay in 1990
Accused of sexual assault in 1998 while in US
Took his own life soon afterwards

Forest's manager, the famous Brian Clough - or in my family the infamous - took a disliking to Justin.

In his autobiography, Clough recounts the confrontation he had with Justin over rumours about frequenting gay clubs in Nottingham:

"'Where do you go if you want a loaf of bread?' I asked him. 'A baker's, I suppose.' 'Where do you go if you want a leg of lamb?' 'A butcher's.' 'So why do you keep going to that bloody *****' club?'"

Those were the typical attitudes Justin faced in his profession, and very little had changed by the time he took the momentous decision to come out publicly a decade later in 1990.

These prejudices he had to endure saddened, rather than shocked, me. But what I did find surprising was the slow pace of change within football since my uncle's courageous step into the limelight.

I learned Justin was no angel, but he genuinely believed he was setting an example to other players facing discrimination. Sadly, it's an example no other gay player has felt able to follow in nearly 25 years.

Why? Several reasons, I discovered. Matt Lucas, comedian, avid Arsenal supporter and one of Britain's best known gay football fans, shocked me with his description of the homophobia still prevalent on the terraces.

But I learned it's not simply a case of the terraces frightening a gay player from coming forward. Max Clifford, the celebrity PR guru, pinpointed the role of agents and their perception that an openly gay player would be a weak commodity in the transfer market.

'Footballers are afraid to come out,' says Max Clifford

"If by their star coming out, it's going to affect their earnings, then they won't want them to do it," says Clifford.

Clifford also told me he had been approached by gay and bisexual Premiership players, terrified that their sexuality would come out and petrified that this would mean the end of their careers.

Joey Barton, Queen's Park Rangers outspoken captain, feels close to the issue as his father's youngest brother initially hid his homosexuality. Barton highlighted "archaic figures" in management positions as an obstacle to gay players.

Former basketball star turned gay rights campaigner John Amaechi went even further.

"Football is clearly not that comfortable with women in board rooms. They're clearly not that comfortable with black people in management positions. And so, when it comes to gay people, that just blows their mind," said Amaechi.

But there were some definite chinks of light. I encountered determined campaigners for change, like the Gay Football Supporters' Network, which has been trying to fight homophobia in the game for many years.

Other organisations, like Kick It Out and Show Racism the Red Card and the Professional Footballers' Association, have also added homophobia to their anti-discrimination agenda in recent times.

The Football Association, the game's main governing body and so often the target for criticism over its shortcomings and failings, are about to launch a four-year plan aimed at encouraging more gay players to participate at grassroots level.

Barton was adamant that within the next 10 years there will be an openly gay footballer in the professional game.

However, I was left with the overwhelming feeling that progress has moved at a snail's pace since Justin's era. As someone from a different generation, who works in fashion with gay colleagues on a regular basis, I found this particularly hard to comprehend.

QPR's captain Joey Barton has said within the next 10 years there will be an openly gay footballer.

As well as being a great eye opener here, my research allowed me to close a very difficult chapter in my family life, which has always bothered me. By the time Justin came out publicly, his relationship with my dad, John Fashanu had broken down.

My dad was upset that Justin had not at least consulted him before taking this step. When Justin later took his own life in 1998, following unfounded allegations of sexual assault in the US, it was shattering for my dad and family.

I think as a 10-year-old my family, rightly, tried to protect me. But I was deeply upset by watching a documentary about Justin's life made shortly after he killed himself and discovering how my dad reacted in the media to Justin coming out.

He said his brother would have to "suffer the consequences" and that he "wouldn't like to play or even get changed in the vicinity of him". I also heard for the first time the message that Justin left in which he said he felt abandoned and alone.

Reliving that terrible time just made me wish I had been old enough back then to be there for Justin. I'm not saying I could have changed everything but I think he only needed that one family member or someone close to help. He shouldn't have ever felt alone and I think that's what most distressed me.

I spoke to my dad about his reaction at the time and asked him whether he would now have changed any of his actions.

"I'm not homophobic and I never had been, but at the time I was certainly cross with my brother," said my dad.

"I sleep at night wondering all the time, could I have done more and I keep coming up with the answer, yes I could have done more. Does that console me? No. We've cried for nearly two decades for Justin, it's enough."

I think I've come to realise myself that maybe Justin wasn't the perfect person that I had painted when I was 10 years old, and maybe he did do some things that upset our family. But having said that I still don't excuse my dad for disowning his brother publicly.

My uncle's death and this family episode were tragic. But this should never disguise that Justin was proud to be who he was and proud to have been a pioneer.

[Locke.]

James McFadden is gay, Sol Campbell aswell apparently

[Smithy]

not openly though ^

[Locke.]

No, it is just creating hell for them if they are open about it, they would get destroyed by the crowd every single match

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

it is a well known fact proven by scientists that gay men are unable to kick a ball properly

[Shaun]

scott this is a serious debate :S :/ :@ i want proof of that claim or get out!!!

[Ramsay]

I thought Sol Campell was engaged?

[Locke.]

Even if they wanted to be open about it they'd get advised against it from their agent and the club they played for

[Locke.]

I thought Sol Campell was engaged?

Just checked his wiki and he is married now with a kid. Could just remember all the rumors about him years ago. Says this aswell:

Campbell's brother John was jailed for twelve months in 2005 after assaulting a man who suggested Sol was homosexual.

[King Gizzard]

Would get ripped apart if you ever openly announced it.

Having said that, theres a player called Xisco who played for Newcastle that's openly gay

[Niall]

I don't blame them for not coming out tbh. The immaturity of most football fans would probably just come out (excuse the pun) in every match through the medium of nasty chants and homophobic slurs.

But then again, if one person came out and soldered through it, then the stigma around the whole thing would diminish and it'd seem more acceptable.

[Patrick]

Let's be honest though, Football is a tad gay.

A bunch of men running around a field, touching eachother and then acting like they're ******ing kings and posing for pictures as if they're one of those cheesy American familes, after they won a game.

It's laughable how serious these bastards take it and how they all try to come across as masculine and hard, when the only thing hard about them is their dicks when they're chasing another player.

[Patrick]

Let's be honest though, Football is a tad gay.

A bunch of men running around a field, touching eachother and then acting like they're ******ing kings and posing for pictures as if they're one of those cheesy American familes, after they won a game.

It's laughable how serious these bastards take it and how they all try to come across as masculine and hard, when the only thing hard about them is their dicks when they're chasing another player.

[Locke.]

Football is the most serious and important thing on the planet Patrick

[Ramsay]

Patrick:nono:

[MeMyselfAndI]

Lmao Patrick

[Patrick]

I just think it's really OTT and blown out of proportion :laugh:

[MeMyselfAndI]

I agree

[Black Dagger]

Anton Hysen is gay as well, but I think he's irrelevant as I believe he plays for some crappy Sweedish football team.

[Loukas]

Would get ripped apart if you ever openly announced it.

Having said that, theres a player called Xisco who played for Newcastle that's openly gay

Apparently he's not out openly, photos of him surfaced online in early 2009 kissing/'smooching' other men but thats as far as that story goes.

As for the program, i think it's going to be interesting

[MTVN]

I don't think this is something restricted to football, it's just sport in general, hence the huge media attention behind Gareth Thomas actually coming out. In cricket as well Steve Davies is the only one I know of who's openly gay, might be a few more in sports like Tennis and Golf I dunno

[Niall]

Let's be honest though, Football is a tad gay.

A bunch of men running around a field, touching eachother and then acting like they're ******ing kings and posing for pictures as if they're one of those cheesy American familes, after they won a game.

It's laughable how serious these bastards take it and how they all try to come across as masculine and hard, when the only thing hard about them is their dicks when they're chasing another player.

I just think it's really OTT and blown out of proportion :laugh:


:worship:

[Marc]

Probably two the most famous tennis players of all time, Billie Jean King and Martina Navratilova are gay.

[Smithy]

thats not football marc

[Marc]

It's still sport :hmph:

And other members have referred to other sports

[Marc]

scott this is a serious debate :S :/ :@ i want proof of that claim or get out!!!

Kick a ball for us..

[Benjamin]

it is a well known fact proven by scientists that gay men are unable to kick a ball properly

I'll prove that fact wrong when I kick you in the balls.


It is sad that there is still such a stigma about homosexuality in a lot of areas including sport.

[Smithy]

It's still sport :hmph:

And other members have referred to other sports

Yeah, but can you really compare the audience of a football match to the audience of a tennis match :joker:

[Shaun]

Kick a ball for us..

I'm bi you mess, which means I can only play football with my right leg.

[Omah]

Probably two the most famous tennis players of all time, Billie Jean King and Martina Navratilova are gay.

They're women and aren't most female tennis players lesbian or bi?

[King Gizzard]

No

[Marc]

Yeah, but can you really compare the audience of a football match to the audience of a tennis match :joker:

True, but its a good example of how sexuality holds no limit to incredible skill.

I'm bi you mess, which means I can only play football with my right leg.

I hope you're playing for us in the World Cup

They're women and aren't most female tennis players lesbian or bi?

No. Ignorant tool

[Jack_]

They're women and aren't most female tennis players lesbian or bi?

Is that supposed to be some ridiculous stereotype :crazy:

[Marc]

I think it was some attempt at humour... :rolleyes:

[Omah]

They're women and aren't most female tennis players lesbian or bi?

No

No. Ignorant tool

That's why I asked, not stated ..... ;)

[Fetch The Bolt Cutters]

I'll prove that fact wrong when I kick you in the balls

please do :amazed:

[arista]

it is a well known fact proven by scientists that gay men are unable to kick a ball properly



If its well Known
you can provide a Link
to this.

[arista]

They're women and aren't most female tennis players lesbian or bi?

Some are Red Hot Lesbos.

Many are not.





Note: There is nothing wrong with Red Hot Lesbos.

[_Seth]

Some are Red Hot Lesbos.

Many are not.





Note: There is nothing wrong with Red Hot Lesbos.

Whenever you mention lesbians you always say "Note: There is nothing wrong with lesbos". Why is that?

[arista]

Whenever you mention lesbians you always say "Note: There is nothing wrong with lesbos". Why is that?


Why Not

[lostalex]

I'll bring some homosexuality in to football, where do i sign up?

You bring the kit, I'll bring the lube.

[Ninastar]

tis on now

[bbfan1991]

On BBC 3 now, going to be thought provoking and interesting viewing:).

[Marc]

I'm interested in what this show says but at the same time I'm also interested in what Lana Del Rey has to say in her album :idc:

[Marc]

Merged.

[MTVN]

I find the "we can see you holding hands" quite funny, it's only taking the piss really because of the stereotypes around the town, Brighton fans can give it back as well

[Marc]

Yeah that Sol chant was not good... :-/

[Ninastar]

Matt Lucas is amazing

[Marc]

Caitlin in response to your fbook status;

have you ever been to a football match? it's awful sometimes

[Marc]

Caitlin in response to your fbook status;

have you ever been to a football match? it's awful sometimes

[King Gizzard]

Has the Ipswich Justin Fashanu one come up yet? Ashamed everytime I hear it at a match

[Marc]

Has the Ipswich Justin Fashanu one come up yet? Ashamed everytime I hear it at a match

No, this whole programme is centered about him though.

His niece is presenting and narrating the whole programme

[bbfan1991]

Some chants are joking but some are way too personal, footie is a man macho game but a shame that some players who are gay are afraid to come out because of the fear of reactions to it:(.

[Marc]

Players will never come out, it just won't happen because of ignorance and stupid people

[Ninastar]

Caitlin in response to your fbook status;

have you ever been to a football match? it's awful sometimes

I saw Liverpool vs. Middlesborugh and that was okay

what gets said?

[bbfan1991]

It is sad that there are still some prehistoric view, i'm not even gay but a persons sexuality should not affect their job:(.

[MTVN]

I think Matt Lucas is sort of right though that if a player did come out his own fans would show him support, a lot of it is kinda club loyalties and rivalries which make supporters pick up on anything to try and throw at rival teams and players, and I guess homosexuality would be one of those things..

[Marc]

I saw Liverpool vs. Middlesborugh and that was okay

what gets said?

what doesn't get said. Basically everything, even if you slightly think a player is gay you get sh*t like 'you *******ing ******' etc. etc.

It's seen as completely wrong in football because it's a sport associated with masculinity.

It's a joke.

[Ninastar]

Just say one of them came out, if they went out on a night in the town, you can imagine all kinds of crap happening to them :sad: I mean, it depends where you live, but it could happen almost anywhere

do you think it'd go as far as hate crime?

[bbfan1991]

Gareth Thomas!

[Marc]

It is sad that there are still some prehistoric view, i'm not even gay but a persons sexuality should not affect their job:(.

Thats discrimination if it does, but it wouldn't be the managers or the club owners who would dismiss them, it would be the pressures off the fans

[Marc]

Hai/ Gareth

[Ninastar]

what doesn't get said. Basically everything, even if you slightly think a player is gay you get sh*t like 'you *******ing ******' etc. etc.

It's seen as completely wrong in football because it's a sport associated with masculinity.

It's a joke.

ugh that's disgusting. I think if I heard it I'd end up crying because it's just so nasty.

it's wrong

[MTVN]

what doesn't get said. Basically everything, even if you slightly think a player is gay you get sh*t like 'you *******ing ******' etc. etc.

It's seen as completely wrong in football because it's a sport associated with masculinity.

It's a joke.

I think that's a bit of a generalisation, I've been to a lot of games and the vast majority there aren't any problems and it's all good-natured banter really between fans, can't remember ever hearing any really bad homophobic or bigoted stuff

[Marc]

Just say one of them came out, if they went out on a night in the town, you can imagine all kinds of crap happening to them :sad: I mean, it depends where you live, but it could happen almost anywhere

do you think it'd go as far as hate crime?

Oh yeah definitely, they'd be bottled etc. and unfortunately I wouldn't be surprised. This country is narrow minded and football fans are probably the worst for homophobia. I mean you wouldn't get the same level of homophobia from somebody who isn't into sports

[bbfan1991]

Gareth would have some good ideas to combat this in Football:).

[Ninastar]

I think that's a bit of a generalisation, I've been to a lot of games and the vast majority there aren't any problems and it's all good-natured banter really between fans, can't remember ever hearing any really bad homophobic or bigoted stuff

even if it's banter it's still wrong. if people said racist things in 'banter' people wouldn't accept that.

[MTVN]

even if it's banter it's still wrong. if people said racist things in 'banter' people wouldn't accept that.

I don't mean homophobic banter, I mean all I normally hear is general banter, not homophobic at all, maybe that's because I've never been to a game with a rumoured gay player playing I dunno

I just don't really like this perception of football fans as ignorant, bigoted people stuck in the past, it's a minority who ruin it

[bbfan1991]

I hate the word banter:bored:.

More support should be available for players who are scared to come out...

[Ninastar]

When Sir Ian mckellan came into my school, he said that even when people call eachother gay (as a joke) he finds it upsetting because it's people saying that being gay is bad

I mean it's more of a generational thing and I don't think people mean it like that, but what he said is true. If people act like it's a bad thing, when will it get better?

[Ninastar]

oh god that note is so sad :sad:

[MTVN]

Oh I didn't realise he killed himself :sad:

[bbfan1991]

Yeah he killed himself, so sad:(:bawling:.

[Jack_]

Not watching this show but generally, football fans are the scum of both sport in general, and this and other countries. Full of ignorant, narrow-minded, worthless people that have no consideration for others and no real idea of the consequences of their pathetic actions.

If it were down to me I'd have every single person that is seen to be chanting any form of abuse arrested immediately. How logistically possible that is, well, who knows...but something needs to be done.

[bbfan1991]

What is this song called, it has been bugging me?:blush:

[Niall]

What really annoys me is that most football fans and players assume that if there was a gay player on the scene, that they'd be some sort of sexual predator that goes after every man in the sport. It's so ****ing backward and immature and one of the reasons I myself dislike the sport so much.

[MTVN]

Oh Millwall, now they are scum

[bbfan1991]

Not watching this show but generally, football fans are the scum of both sport in general, and this and other countries. Full of ignorant, narrow-minded, worthless people that have no consideration for others and no real idea of the consequences of their pathetic actions.

If it were down to me I'd have every single person that is seen to be chanting any form of abuse arrested immediately. How logistically possible that is, well, who knows...but something needs to be done.

It is unfair to tar ALL football fans with the same brush, you get the idiot and moronic thugs who aren't fans at all who let the decent and law abiding fans down..

[bbfan1991]

Ugh Millwall, although I do like to think that not all of their fans are deserving of the bad reputation they get...

[Niall]

The FA should really do what Gareth suggested and make a statement saying that they would support any players who come out, but it seems that they're just as backward as the fans. :idc:

[Black Dagger]

Oh Millwall, now they are scum

What did they do? Didn't they do a Gary Speed chant the week after he died as well?

[Ninastar]

I do think that it's more footballers than less that are the type to do all these crappy horrible things

[Jack_]

It is unfair to tar ALL football fans with the same brush, you get the idiot and moronic thugs who aren't fans at all who let the decent and law abiding fans down..

I never said all, I know there's decent fans of the game like yourself and others in this thread...whom these morons should take some advice from. Hence why I used the term 'generally'

[bbfan1991]

Can anyone help me with that song that girl was singing, i've been trying to find it out for ages:joker:.

[bbfan1991]

I never said all, I know there's decent fans of the game like yourself and others in this thread...whom these morons should take some advice from. Hence why I used the term 'generally'

Oops sorry Jack, got carried away there:blush:.

[MTVN]

What did they do? Didn't they do a Gary Speed chant the week after he died as well?

Yeah their fans sang "Where's your Gary Speed" I think, well I'm obliged to not like them because they're my teams biggest rivals but they're fans do have a very bad reputation for stuff like this, and with racism as well

[Ninastar]

i can't im afraid reggie

and what annoys me is that probably around half the idiots who say all the offensive things don't actually mean it in what they say, they just do it to be one of the 'men' and part of the crowd etc

[bbfan1991]

John Fashanu is rude, how could he say those things about his own brother?:(

[Niall]

i can't im afraid reggie

and what annoys me is that probably around half the idiots who say all the offensive things don't actually mean it in what they say, they just do it to be one of the 'men' and part of the crowd etc

:worship:

[Niall]

I don't like that twat tbh. He should've supported his brother unconditionally.

[Ramsay]

Aw man its the guy from Fash FC

[Ninastar]

his statement about his brothers suicide really annoyed me

'Yes, I'd feel uncomfortable getting changed in front of him too'

Yet I bet they got changed in front of each other growing up. He hasn't changed as a person

[bbfan1991]

Anton Hysen, respect to him for having the courage to come out and stop living a lie.

[Niall]

Others should follow in that Anton's footsteps.

[Ninastar]

where is he from? I missed it

[Niall]

where is he from? I missed it

Sweeden

[Ninastar]

Sweeden

oh right

yeah they are really cool about it there

[Black Dagger]

where is he from? I missed it

Sweeden, seems like a nice, genuine lad.

John Fashnu is a *******.

[MTVN]

Joey Barton :worship:

[Niall]

I like that guy. He talks sense.

If only one Premier League player would come out.. It would change things so so much..

[bbfan1991]

Yeah Anton seems nice:).

Trust Joey to get involved:D, credit to him for speaking out about his uncle and share his thoughts...

[Ninastar]

I like that guy. He talks sense.

If only one Premier League player would come out.. It would change things so so much..

they'd get too much crap, I don't think it will happen for a while

[Niall]

they'd get too much crap, I don't think it will happen for a while

I suppose that's true but if one of them came out and soldiered through all the ****e they'd get, maybe it'd inspire others..

[Niall]

Also, are there any openly lesbian players?

[Niall]

I really liked that lady. :love:

[bbfan1991]

Small progress has been made but like Amal said there would only be big progress if one player was brave enough to come out..

[Ninastar]

Also, are there any openly lesbian players?

probably all of them

http://i.imgur.com/69TlF.gif

[Niall]

probably all of them

http://i.imgur.com/69TlF.gif

:joker::joker::joker:

[Ninastar]

I really liked that lady. :love:

me too, she was really sweet

I think it was a bit sad too, I think she felt guilty that she never got to know her uncle. What she said was true, if he even had that little bit of support it could have made that difference

she can't help that though, that's why I feel bad for her

[Stu]

Hence why I used the term 'generally'
A pretty poor choice of term. It gives the impression you think the majority of football fans are scumbags. 'Generally' meaning ... well ... 'in general'.

What really annoys me is that most football fans and players assume that if there was a gay player on the scene, that they'd be some sort of sexual predator that goes after every man in the sport. It's so ****ing backward and immature and one of the reasons I myself dislike the sport so much.
No. No no ****ing no.

Can we please stop with the edgy, "I'm a teen who doesn't like football~!" assumption that most people who enjoy the game are scumbags and homophobes?

It's really, really annoying. Talk about the vocal sections of the crowd on the terraces who are like this all you want but stop using terms like 'most' and 'generally' to hit home some unspoken but obvious high horse view that football is some retarded thing generally supported by working class chip bags who couldn't tie their shoe laces together.

[Niall]

me too, she was really sweet

I think it was a bit sad too, I think she felt guilty that she never got to know her uncle. What she said was true, if he even had that little bit of support it could have made that difference

she can't help that though, that's why I feel bad for her

Yeah, I know what you mean. I felt really sorry for her too. :sad:

[Marc]

I think that's a bit of a generalisation, I've been to a lot of games and the vast majority there aren't any problems and it's all good-natured banter really between fans, can't remember ever hearing any really bad homophobic or bigoted stuff

Well considering I havent actually been to every single football in the history of the game I have to rely on generalisations :laugh: lol

[MTVN]

I genuinely think most football fans and players are more tolerant than given credit for, like none of the Millwall players thought twice before saying they'd accept a gay team mate and you could see how well that Swedish guy was accepted. But then a few hundred people chant something homophobic and it gives the majority a bad name, and it gives football a bad name.

I said this earlier as well but I don't think this is restricted to football, Steven Davies only recently became the first openly gay England cricketer, and that's hardly a sport associated with manliness, if anything it's the opposite. But football's a lot bigger and rivalries aren't as heated in cricket, cricket fans don't give each other stick but in football chanting homophobic stuff is sometimes an attempt to try and get one over on the other team. I think we will see an openly gay footballer in the next few years, and he'd likely receive overwhelming support from most people, hopefully that'd be enough to outweigh any abuse

[Niall]

No. No no ****ing no.

Can we please stop with the edgy, "I'm a teen who doesn't like football~!" assumption that most people who enjoy the game are scumbags and homophobes?*

It's really, really annoying. Talk about the vocal sections of the crowd on the terraces who are like this all you want but stop using terms like 'most' and 'generally' to hit home some unspoken but obvious high horse view that football is some retarded thing generally supported by working class chip bags who couldn't tie their shoe laces together.

I'm not trying to be edgy though. I've never really gotten that much of a thrill out of watching the sport. I don't really like it all that much to be honest.

And I say 'most' because most of the football fans I've met are quite homophobic or speak in quite a derogatory manner when the subject if homosexuality is roused. Maybe most football fans aren't like that, but the majority of ones that I've met are.

[MTVN]

Well considering I havent actually been to every single football in the history of the game I have to rely on generalisations :laugh: lol

Oh right fair enough :laugh:

[lostalex]

I can't speak for european soccer, but After watching the world cup last year i certainly got thr impression that we had plenty of gays on TEAm USA.

[Novo]

Nice to see my post got a few Chomps, It's a pleasure.

[Brother Leon]

Is this worth watching guys?

Might catch it online before bed.

[MTVN]

Yeah it was decent, had some interesting stuff in it

[Omah]

Probably two the most famous tennis players of all time, Billie Jean King and Martina Navratilova are gay.

They're women and aren't most female tennis players lesbian or bi?

No

No. Ignorant tool

Is that supposed to be some ridiculous stereotype :crazy:

I think it was some attempt at humour... :rolleyes:

That's why I asked, not stated ..... ;)

So, rebuttal for me, but not for :

Also, are there any openly lesbian players?

probably all of them

http://i.imgur.com/69TlF.gif

:joker::joker::joker:

Double standards for some posters ?

[Ninastar]

i was joking, seeing as I like girls myself

[Black Dagger]

Is this worth watching guys?

Might catch it online before bed.

It was a great watch, I watched the late-viewing, I ended up crying for half of the show, what a mess :sad:

[Crimson Dynamo]

It aint going to happen anytime soon and i dont think most fans could give a flying f if it does not.

[Niall]

So, rebuttal for me, but not for :







Double standards for some posters ?

It's not double standards at all. :joker: Neither Caitlin or myself replied to that question you asked so how you can bring us into your whole double standards argument makes no sense seeing as we weren't the ones that answered you. :crazy:

[Niall]

Also, I asked if there were any lesbian players in female football, Omah. You implied that most female tennis players were lesbian or bi.

Those are two completely different questions. .__.

[Z]

Things wouldn't change if just one player came out - case in point, see Justin Fashanu. If several players came out in a short period of time, however, that would be entirely different. That would make way for change. But just one person unfortunately won't make a difference here. And it's a bit unfair to place the expectation onto this one person that they'll also be some kind of gay rights advocate etc...

[MTVN]

Fashanu was 20 years ago though, I think actually that Gareth Thomas coming out has changed things a lot, he was the only openly gay male sportsman in the world at the time but since then we've had Steven Davies come out, and also that Swedish footballer they showed on the program last night, won't be all that long till there's a major player, I'd say it'll be within 5 years

[Locke.]

No matter how many players came out they'd still be targeted by the oppositions fans.

[Shaun]

well that's ok then.

[MTVN]

No matter how many players came out they'd still be targeted by the oppositions fans.

Yeah true, they'd probably still get a bit of stick, at rival games definitely anyway

[Novo]

Wouldn't be surprised if Cristiano Ronaldo was gay all the transvestite scandal stories, the fact he adopted a baby rather then have one himself at his age, every single relationship he has had has been with 10/10 girls and have all ended really soon, think he's with that Irina Shayk now if that ends anytime soon he's gay for sure

[Locke.]

Yeah he is definitely gay

[Wayne-Kerr]

I don't see why players need to tell the world about their personal life anyway. Footballers don't come out and tell everyone they're straight, so why the difference for gay footballers? If a gay footballer is happy telling just his family and friends, I don't see why they need to be forced or persuaded into telling everyone else.