Why are we trying to defend the indefensible?

[Incensed]

We all have our favourites, but lets be honest, the choice wasn't that morally great!

Denise - The Winner - Has affair after affair and doesn't seen to care who knows it.

The Twins - Sell their bodies - No two ways about it and become girlfriends of an 85 yr old man.

Frankie - Druggie - Chucked off X Factor.

Natasha - 'Famous' for having sex with her Brother in Law.

Michael - Another Alcoholic & Druggie. Could anybody understand his addled brain mutterings?

I could go on but you get my gist....

Yet here we all are ( me included) trying to convince each other that they are such nice people and sooo worthy of our votes. :joker:

I think it's time we all took a rain check and saved our money until someone worthy is in there, instead of feeding all their ego's.

*Tin hat on and ready for the abuse* :joker:

[lostalex]

"we"? no, just yu dear....

[RodHull]

Thats the difference with some of us. I based how much I liked people on the sorts of people I wanted to watch (IE who was entertaining) and the sorts of people I might be able to tolerate having a social drink with.

Where as many posters seem to think that BB is a morality contest where only the virtuous can prevail. The Twins are a great example. You say they sell their bodies, yeah technically they were part of the glamour industry but beyond that they did nothing offensive or annoying to me. Where as other viewers felt the need to become enraged on behalf of an old drunk and therefor then hate them. Others felt the need to morally judge Denise as a poor lady who just wants to be loved.

The truth is IF you based winning on morals and behaviour then Denise is the WORST of all this years current crop. She embodies all the worst parts of all the other HMs and worst still blames everyone else for her behaviour.

Michael may have been a drunk, but he seems fairly sorted in life now. The Twins for sure took a questionable path to success, Natasha did a nasty thing to her husband, Andrew is a deluded idiot.

Denise is all those things and worse. Nothing to do with morals or some silly notions of good and bad. Flat out the woman is just an embaressment and people voted her to win cause they mistakenly believed her feeble acting and tears to be real.

[Cherie]

Thats the difference with some of us. I based how much I liked people on the sorts of people I wanted to watch (IE who was entertaining) and the sorts of people I might be able to tolerate having a social drink with.

Where as many posters seem to think that BB is a morality contest where only the virtuous can prevail. The Twins are a great example. You say they sell their bodies, yeah technically they were part of the glamour industry but beyond that they did nothing offensive or annoying to me. Where as other viewers felt the need to become enraged on behalf of an old drunk and therefor then hate them. Others felt the need to morally judge Denise as a poor lady who just wants to be loved.

The truth is IF you based winning on morals and behaviour then Denise is the WORST of all this years current crop. She embodies all the worst parts of all the other HMs and worst still blames everyone else for her behaviour.

Michael may have been a drunk, but he seems fairly sorted in life now. The Twins for sure took a questionable path to success, Natasha did a nasty thing to her husband, Andrew is a deluded idiot.

Denise is all those things and worse. Nothing to do with morals or some silly notions of good and bad. Flat out the woman is just an embaressment and people voted her to win cause they mistakenly believed her feeble acting and tears to be real.

Agree with every sentiment, I've no idea what the OP's point is, as I presume you have an off switch on your TV?

[Kazanne]

We all have our favourites, but lets be honest, the choice wasn't that morally great!

Denise - The Winner - Has affair after affair and doesn't seen to care who knows it.

The Twins - Sell their bodies - No two ways about it and become girlfriends of an 85 yr old man.

Frankie - Druggie - Chucked off X Factor.

Natasha - 'Famous' for having sex with her Brother in Law.

Michael - Another Alcoholic & Druggie. Could anybody understand his addled brain mutterings?

I could go on but you get my gist....

Yet here we all are ( me included) trying to convince each other that they are such nice people and sooo worthy of our votes. :joker:

I think it's time we all took a rain check and saved our money until someone worthy is in there, instead of feeding all their ego's.

*Tin hat on and ready for the abuse* :joker:

And ,how do we know all this? Ah yes,the British Tabloids a paragon of virtue.

[Visage]

And ,how do we know all this? Ah yes,the British Tabloids a paragon of virtue.

Very true Kazanne.

[mr rochester]

We all have our favourites, but lets be honest, the choice wasn't that morally great!

Denise - The Winner - Has affair after affair and doesn't seen to care who knows it.

The Twins - Sell their bodies - No two ways about it and become girlfriends of an 85 yr old man.

Frankie - Druggie - Chucked off X Factor.

Natasha - 'Famous' for having sex with her Brother in Law.

Michael - Another Alcoholic & Druggie. Could anybody understand his addled brain mutterings?

I could go on but you get my gist....

Yet here we all are ( me included) trying to convince each other that they are such nice people and sooo worthy of our votes. :joker:

I think it's time we all took a rain check and saved our money until someone worthy is in there, instead of feeding all their ego's.

*Tin hat on and ready for the abuse* :joker:



I read and then re-read this post and I have to say you really do have a very strong point. When you lay it out like that it is barely possible to disagree...One can get very sucked into this show and naturally, there are those you would hope would win over others, but when you actually analyse it like you have and then have a think about it you are completely right.

For instance - I have championed Denise on this forum and yet I am very, very strongly against drinking too much (and too often). However, I got completely drawn into her being spoken of in such a derogatory way and felt I should stick up for her...Hmmmmmm....a lot to ponder and thank you for pointing this out:flowers:

[Angus]

I based my views on who I wanted to win on the way people behaved in the house.

Taking the final five alone:
The Twins did nothing wrong in the house apart from bigging themselves up at every opportunity which is not exactly endearing but is nonetheless not harming anyone else. Sure they talked about nominations - didn't they all INCLUDING the saintly Gareth?

As for Michael, I didn't see him drunk, out of control or acting like a twat. If he got angry and moody sometimes that was a reaction to the constant harrassment and stalking by Denise - I'm guessing we only saw a fraction of her hounding him. I found him intelligent, interesting and funny which is why he was my fave.

Frankie's behaviour, especially with Kirk, was offensive and sleazy but, hey, if the girls in the house are cool with it that's up to them. However, he should never have been in the final IMO, he has no respect for women or himself.

Gareth was the ultimate "people pleaser" in the way he tried to be all things to all men, but was still bitching about Michael and the Twins behind their backs and nomming them in cahoots with the three witches. He was two faced and a fence sitting coward when it suited him. Furthermore, I started to drift into a coma whenever he was on.

However, Denise was in a class of her own when it came to repugnant, unacceptable, out of control behaviour, particularly in the way she was allowed to persistently harrass Michael. When he tried to make the peace he proved the point that if you give an inch some people take a mile, and she just didn't know when to stop. I based my dislike of Denise on what I witnessed in the house, and I am gobsmacked that people were sucked into her manipulated views on incidents SHE instigated, and upsets and rows that SHE caused. She now feels that her behaviour is totally validated. She was so smug and up herself that she was still goading Michael AFTERWARDS, to the extent that he and his wife left the Elstree hotel after the show to get away from her.

I don't give a rat's behind about anyone's past but since everyone bangs on about poor little Denise and the demons she has had to fight, her depression, alcoholism etc, how about cutting other people some slack for overcoming huge problems in THEIR lives. No allowance was made for Michael's depression and prior alcohol addicition, which is why he took himself away from the group a lot when they were all drinking. IMO Denise is probably the worst winner of CBB EVER, based solely on how she behaved in the house, never mind her debauched lifestyle before she entered the house.

[RodHull]

I based my views on who I wanted to win on the way people behaved in the house.

Taking the final five alone:
The Twins did nothing wrong in the house apart from bigging themselves up at every opportunity which is not exactly endearing but is nonetheless not harming anyone else. Sure they talked about nominations - didn't they all INCLUDING the saintly Gareth?

As for Michael, I didn't see him drunk, out of control or acting like a twat. If he got angry and moody sometimes that was a reaction to the constant harrassment and stalking by Denise - I'm guessing we only saw a fraction of her hounding him. I found him intelligent, interesting and funny which is why he was my fave.

Frankie's behaviour, especially with Kirk, was offensive and sleazy but, hey, if the girls in the house are cool with it that's up to them. However, he should never have been in the final IMO, he has no respect for women or himself.

Gareth was the ultimate "people pleaser" in the way he tried to be all things to all men, but was still bitching about Michael and the Twins behind their backs and nomming them in cahoots with the three witches. He was two faced and a fence sitting coward when it suited him. Furthermore, I started to drift into a coma whenever he was on.

However, Denise was in a class of her own when it came to repugnant, unacceptable, out of control behaviour, particularly in the way she was allowed to persistently harrass Michael. When he tried to make the peace he proved the point that if you give an inch some people take a mile, and she just didn't know when to stop. I based my dislike of Denise on what I witnessed in the house, and I am gobsmacked that people were sucked into her manipulated views on incidents SHE instigated, and upsets and rows that SHE caused. She now feels that her behaviour is totally validated. She was so smug and up herself that she was still goading Michael AFTERWARDS, to the extent that he and his wife left the Elstree hotel after the show to get away from her.

I don't give a rat's behind about anyone's past but since everyone bangs on about poor little Denise and the demons she has had to fight, her depression, alcoholism etc, how about cutting other people some slack for overcoming huge problems in THEIR lives. No allowance was made for Michael's depression and prior alcohol addicition, which is why he took himself away from the group a lot when they were all drinking. IMO Denise is probably the worst winner of CBB EVER, based solely on how she behaved in the house, never mind her debauched lifestyle before she entered the house.

Quoted for great truth...

:hello::hello::hello::hello::hello:

[Kizzy]

angus ...great post :) agree 99% had more respect for gareth keeping out of the squabbles than trying to jump in, look what happened to nicola...

[Wayne-Kerr]

Michael was out of control in and out of the house, and I don't get how people can defend him either.

[Niamh.]

I based my views on who I wanted to win on the way people behaved in the house.

Taking the final five alone:
The Twins did nothing wrong in the house apart from bigging themselves up at every opportunity which is not exactly endearing but is nonetheless not harming anyone else. Sure they talked about nominations - didn't they all INCLUDING the saintly Gareth?

As for Michael, I didn't see him drunk, out of control or acting like a twat. If he got angry and moody sometimes that was a reaction to the constant harrassment and stalking by Denise - I'm guessing we only saw a fraction of her hounding him. I found him intelligent, interesting and funny which is why he was my fave.

Frankie's behaviour, especially with Kirk, was offensive and sleazy but, hey, if the girls in the house are cool with it that's up to them. However, he should never have been in the final IMO, he has no respect for women or himself.

Gareth was the ultimate "people pleaser" in the way he tried to be all things to all men, but was still bitching about Michael and the Twins behind their backs and nomming them in cahoots with the three witches. He was two faced and a fence sitting coward when it suited him. Furthermore, I started to drift into a coma whenever he was on.

However, Denise was in a class of her own when it came to repugnant, unacceptable, out of control behaviour, particularly in the way she was allowed to persistently harrass Michael. When he tried to make the peace he proved the point that if you give an inch some people take a mile, and she just didn't know when to stop. I based my dislike of Denise on what I witnessed in the house, and I am gobsmacked that people were sucked into her manipulated views on incidents SHE instigated, and upsets and rows that SHE caused. She now feels that her behaviour is totally validated. She was so smug and up herself that she was still goading Michael AFTERWARDS, to the extent that he and his wife left the Elstree hotel after the show to get away from her.

I don't give a rat's behind about anyone's past but since everyone bangs on about poor little Denise and the demons she has had to fight, her depression, alcoholism etc, how about cutting other people some slack for overcoming huge problems in THEIR lives. No allowance was made for Michael's depression and prior alcohol addicition, which is why he took himself away from the group a lot when they were all drinking. IMO Denise is probably the worst winner of CBB EVER, based solely on how she behaved in the house, never mind her debauched lifestyle before she entered the house.

:worship: Fantastic post Angus, bang on the money too.

[Roy Mars III]

Don't know how anyone can defend Dirty Den

[RodHull]

Michael was out of control in and out of the house, and I don't get how people can defend him either.

Out of control in what way?? Please elaborate...

[Niamh.]

Oh anyone know anything about this btw "She was so smug and up herself that she was still goading Michael AFTERWARDS, to the extent that he and his wife left the Elstree hotel after the show to get away from her." I never heard anything about that

[Ammi]

..We may as well say goodbye to BB if it's a perfect housemate without a past or any flaws we're looking for...their 'past' is often why BB choose them....it's all down to which of their flaws offends us least...that's what makes it fun

[starry]

Because sometimes it's possible to concentrate on the good in people rather than just the bad, probably more enjoyable that way really.

[Angus]

[QUOTE=Niamh.;4924778]Oh anyone know anything about this btw "She was so smug and up herself that she was still goading Michael AFTERWARDS, to the extent that he and his wife left the Elstree hotel after the show to get away from her." I never heard anything about that[/QUOTE

Sorry Niamh, didn't save the tweets. There were a few on twitter Saturday from people who had been at Elstree, including one of the trash mags which reported that Michael and his wife refused to stay in the hotel with the other HMs and left for central london in a taxi. The goading Michael afterwards bit is referring to the spat that started on BBBOTS when she told him to ***** off. It was also tweeted that she'd downed a few drinks before going on the show. I have no reason to disbelieve it having witnessed Michael's desperation to get away from her in the house. The wrap party should be interesting, wonder if he'll turn up?

[Niamh.]

[QUOTE=Niamh.;4924778]Oh anyone know anything about this btw "She was so smug and up herself that she was still goading Michael AFTERWARDS, to the extent that he and his wife left the Elstree hotel after the show to get away from her." I never heard anything about that[/QUOTE

Sorry Niamh, didn't save the tweets. There were a few on twitter Saturday from people who had been at Elstree, including one of the trash mags which reported that Michael and his wife refused to stay in the hotel with the other HMs and left for central london in a taxi. The goading Michael afterwards bit is referring to the spat that started on BBBOTS when she told him to ***** off. It was also tweeted that she'd downed a few drinks before going on the show. I have no reason to disbelieve it having witnessed Michael's desperation to get away from her in the house. The wrap party should be interesting, wonder if he'll turn up?

I can't say I blame him for wanting to get as far away from that drunken maniac as possible!

[Jack_]

Every housemate aside from Gareth (who was so utterly boring I almost slipped into a coma watching him) deserved their place in the final.

I don't like it when people go down the moralistic route about housemates time in the house. We're not living with them, so it doesn't and shouldn't matter. Yes, you can have your personal view on their behaviour and actions, and whose side you may or may not be on - but at the end of the day, people should step back and look at the bigger picture, which is who is creating the most story lines, giving us all lots of things to talk about. And the answer to that question is the answer to who should remain in the house as long as possible, make the final and ultimately, win. Had that been applied to this series the twins would have probably won, and Gareth certainly wouldn't have been in the final. What people don't seem to realise is that it is absolutely essential that these types of housemates who spark debates remain in the house, they are the ones that make the show what it is, and without them it'd fail...and well, there would be no show.

Denise was a decent winner, she created a fair few talking points so let's be honest, we have a lot to thank her for. Not the best choice, but it could've been worse.

[Niamh.]

Every housemate aside from Gareth (who was so utterly boring I almost slipped into a coma watching him) deserved their place in the final.

I don't like it when people go down the moralistic route about housemates time in the house. We're not living with them, so it doesn't and shouldn't matter. Yes, you can have your personal view on their behaviour and actions, and whose side you may or may not be on - but at the end of the day, people should step back and look at the bigger picture, which is who is creating the most story lines, giving us all lots of things to talk about. And the answer to that question is the answer to who should remain in the house as long as possible, make the final and ultimately, win. Had that been applied to this series the twins would have probably won, and Gareth certainly wouldn't have been in the final. What people don't seem to realise is that it is absolutely essential that these types of housemates who spark debates remain in the house, they are the ones that make the show what it is, and without them it'd fail...and well, there would be no show.

Denise was a decent winner, she created a fair few talking points so let's be honest, we have a lot to thank her for. Not the best choice, but it could've been worse.

True enough Jack, it just pisses me off when people say Michael and/or the twins bullied Denise and treat her like the victim when in reality everything she got, she drew on herself, while she was a drunken mess

[Kizzy]

bullied her...as if? blinkered is the word no way of seeing the truth as it has all been removed ....funny that

[tonyface]

Thats the difference with some of us. I based how much I liked people on the sorts of people I wanted to watch (IE who was entertaining) and the sorts of people I might be able to tolerate having a social drink with.

Where as many posters seem to think that BB is a morality contest where only the virtuous can prevail. The Twins are a great example. You say they sell their bodies, yeah technically they were part of the glamour industry but beyond that they did nothing offensive or annoying to me. Where as other viewers felt the need to become enraged on behalf of an old drunk and therefor then hate them. Others felt the need to morally judge Denise as a poor lady who just wants to be loved.

The truth is IF you based winning on morals and behaviour then Denise is the WORST of all this years current crop. She embodies all the worst parts of all the other HMs and worst still blames everyone else for her behaviour.

Michael may have been a drunk, but he seems fairly sorted in life now. The Twins for sure took a questionable path to success, Natasha did a nasty thing to her husband, Andrew is a deluded idiot.

Denise is all those things and worse. Nothing to do with morals or some silly notions of good and bad. Flat out the woman is just an embaressment and people voted her to win cause they mistakenly believed her feeble acting and tears to be real.

Excellent post, my impressions were that all of the HM's were trying to better their lives, apart from Denise, who in my opinion was still being deceitful to the very end, especially with all the fake crying and renditions to the camera's, when all the while she has been cheating on her husband, and did not seem remorseful in the slightest about her drink & drugs problems, despite her retoric on the subject.
You would have to be pretty gullible to be have been taken in by Denise IMHO.

[Incensed]

Some really good points made in the replies. My point that I was trying to put across (all be it not that well) was that a lot of the discussion on here has been about the morality of the HM's. IE: Denise is a drunken slapper. The Twins are known for being Girlfriends of an 85 year old man etc.... and yet whichever HM's we supported we tried to justify what they had done. I just found that really interesting from a human nature point of view. That and the fact that I'd been out with my mates and had a few glasses of wine before I posted!! :hugesmile:

OMG! Am I turning into Denise? :joker::joker:

[Cherie]

Some really good points made in the replies. My point that I was trying to put across (all be it not that well) was that a lot of the discussion on here has been about the morality of the HM's. IE: Denise is a drunken slapper. The Twins are known for being Girlfriends of an 85 year old man etc.... and yet whichever HM's we supported we tried to justify what they had done. I just found that really interesting from a human nature point of view. That and the fact that I'd been out with my mates and had a few glasses of wine before I posted!! :hugesmile:

OMG! Am I turning into Denise? :joker::joker:

:joker:oh good gracious...never!

[tonyface]

The thing I forgot to mention, and the reason why Denise's behaviour became a bit personal with me, was I lived with that semi-permanent smirk that she has on her face, which is all about control, and relishing the fact that she makes herself the center of attention through all the drama's that she creates. (Classic alcoholic behaviour/my mum)
When things are not going her way, and she does not get the attention she craves, you see the tearful, feeling sorry for herself Denise that we all saw in the beginning when Micheal was not reciprocating her demands for attention.

[InOne]

Some really good points made in the replies. My point that I was trying to put across (all be it not that well) was that a lot of the discussion on here has been about the morality of the HM's. IE: Denise is a drunken slapper. The Twins are known for being Girlfriends of an 85 year old man etc.... and yet whichever HM's we supported we tried to justify what they had done. I just found that really interesting from a human nature point of view. That and the fact that I'd been out with my mates and had a few glasses of wine before I posted!! :hugesmile:

OMG! Am I turning into Denise? :joker::joker:

Yes. It seems she has taught you well...

[Incensed]

Yes. It seems she has taught you well...

:joker:

At least I still have a sense of humour :hugesmile:

[InOne]

:joker:

At least I still have a sense of humour :hugesmile:

So do I.

I was wondering if you'd bite ;)

[WozMan]

No denying Denise is a trainwreck. From a show perspective she was also the epicentre of almost every major controversy in the house. I was flabberghasted and bemused by her flashing antics :shocked: :amazed:, amazed how she won the war of perception in her fight with Michael :conf:, horrified at her psychotic badgering of Michael :bawling: and sympathetic to the massive over-reaction and gang-banging she got from the twins and Nicola over pantsgate :(.

Quite the emotional rollercoaster!

[Incensed]

So do I.

I was wondering if you'd bite ;)

Oooo, sneaky :joker:

[InOne]

Oooo, sneaky :joker:

I hope there is no hard feelings over BB. I am quite sure you will like better HM's next time round :tongue:

[Incensed]

I hope there is no hard feelings over BB. I am quite sure you will like better HM's next time round :tongue:

Of course there are no hard feelings, but it wouldn't be as much fun if we both liked the same HM's :joker:

[InOne]

Of course there are no hard feelings, but it wouldn't be as much fun if we both liked the same HM's :joker:

True true lol

Are you a Man City fan by the way?

[Incensed]

True true lol

Are you a Man City fan by the way?

I am indeed, don't tell me, you support United? :joker:

[InOne]

I am indeed, don't tell me, you support United? :joker:

Don't be bloody stupid :joker: I'm same as you.

[Incensed]

Don't be bloody stupid :joker: I'm same as you.

YAY!! :banana::banana: